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This week, Erica and Kenrya talk to author and cousin of the show Sheree L. Greer about the terrors of patriarchy, the importance of processing trauma, the intricacies of low-stakes hook ups, the importance of reciprocity, hating-ass pets and communication as aphrodisiac. Content warning: sexual abuse
Guest, Sheree L. Greer | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook
Free Short Story | "Christmas Is Sacred" from "Once and Future Lovers" by Sheree L. Greer
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Hey y’all. So, it gives me all of the pleasure to not only welcome y'all to this week's show, but to tell you that cousin of the show, Sheree L. Greer, is back in the house.
Erica: Cousin, cousin.
Kenrya: Hey girl. So Sheree's pronouns are she and her. And she is a text-based artist living in Tampa, Florida. In 2014, she founded Kitchen Table Literary Arts to showcase and support the work of Black women writers, and she's also the author of two novels, "Let the Lover Be" and "A Return to Arms," as well as the short story collection, "Once and Future Lovers." Sheree is a VONA Voices alum, Astraea Lesbian Foundation grantee, Yaddo fellow, and Ragdale fellow. Her essay "Bars," published in Fourth Genre Magazine, was nominated for PushCart prize, and was notably named in best American essays, 2019. That's a big fucking deal.
Sheree L. Greer: Thank you.
Kenrya: I have those... I buy those collections in paperback and I have them in my house.
Sheree L. Greer: All right. It's noted in there. My next goal is to have it in there-in there, like featured-featured.
Kenrya: In there. You fucking fancy.
Sheree L. Greer: And it will happen.
Kenrya: Progress. Exactly. That's what's up. Thank you for coming.
Sheree L. Greer: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. Thank you.
Erica: So listeners, just know ahead of time this going to be this going to be an episode, because-
Sheree L. Greer: No pressure.
Erica: I mean, no, because-
Kenrya: It's always fun times.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah it is. It's always fun times. I Love y’all so much. I'm so glad-
Erica: With that, we just going to jump all in your cooch, from the beginning.
Sheree L. Greer: Let's go. I showered and everything.
Erica: Thank you. Appreciate you.
Erica: So when do you remember first masturbating and what was the technique?
Sheree L. Greer: I want to say I was like five or six, maybe five. I had this doll, it was called Walking Wanda. Okay? And I feel like it was the off-brand of whatever popular walking doll was at the time, because my mom was good for some off-brand shit. And so, but I had it. So the doll was like, I feel like I was just a little taller than the doll, and like you hold her hand and she's supposed to walk with you. It doesn't work that well. But I remember her outfit, she was Black. My mom was all about Black dolls. She had these like really fun stretchy pants on and this, I feel like it was neon green or neon pink shirt or something. But that was my girlfriend. I didn't know, probably relationship wise, girlfriend, boyfriend, stuff like that, but I knew that me and her was making out and humping at night and it was on. So I feel like-
Erica: Then you take, take her to church in the morning.
Sheree L. Greer: I feel like that was the beginning. I do. I remember her very vividly
Kenrya: I feel like we need to like catalog this. I want to say, I don't know, 80% of the people who we've asked this question it’s been toys.
Erica: So far, we've only had one person that didn't say it was either a pillow or a toy.
Sheree L. Greer: Okay.
Erica: Yeah. Everyone has been, which is why-
Kenrya: Mine was a pillow-
Kenrya: Yours was a stuffed animal, right?
Erica: It was a Minnie Mouse that was life-size. It was huge. We had a friend that had Teddy Ruxpin and the nose was hard.
Sheree L. Greer: Oh, wow.
Erica: Just hard enough.
Sheree L. Greer: That's true.
Erica: Everyone had a variation of either a stuffed animal, a doll, or a pillow.
Sheree L. Greer: So I feel like it's easy to just have it, and then... I don't know what makes... I wish I could go back and think through like what the thought process was, but you own it and then you figure out a little-
Kenrya: This feels good. Whoa.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah, and then welcome to your body.
Kenrya: Yeah, and it's easy. To this day, I still have trouble digitally. That's not really my jam.
Sheree L. Greer: No, not me. Not me.
Kenrya: I prefer the path of least resistance, which is to use some help.
Sheree L. Greer: It's quicker that way. It is quicker, when you use some accoutrements.
Sheree L. Greer: It's easier and faster. That's true.
Kenrya: Yeah, exactly. That is-
Sheree L. Greer: Let's get to it. I'm just trying to get to sleep. Come on now.
Kenrya: Exactly. Bang it out. So how old were you when you had your first kiss?
Sheree L. Greer: I think I was in fourth grade and it was so tricky. It was this dude Tremaine who, he liked me so much. He stole one of his mama's rings and brought it to school and gave it to me.
Sheree L. Greer: And I remember we had a conference about it and then after the conference, because of course, his mom came up to school. Apparently it was an expensive ring. It was red. Maybe it was a real ruby. I don't fucking know. I was in fourth grade. Yeah, so I remember kissing him before he gave me the ring, though. Because he rode the bus and I walked. So we had made a plan on how to kiss and then he had to leave or whatever. And so he brought me this ring and it was this big thing. My mom had to come up to school, because the principal at the time, Mrs. Wilkerson, wanted to have a talk with me about my worth and how... What did I do to get the ring and why? And this could set up expectation... It was like this whole thing, and I felt like it was way blown out of proportion for this little peck that we did.
Kenrya: But why was it about your words?
Sheree L. Greer: Exactly. It was me.
Kenrya: That you accepted it, and not that this little nigga stole his mama's ring.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. No, it was. I remember that conversation about-
Kenrya: Goddamn. Patriarchy always.
Erica: If anything, good, I'm glad you're getting paid for them pecks. Pay up little nigga. Pay up.
Sheree L. Greer: But yeah, it was a whole thing and I'd be thinking about like that and how those early things start framing your whole relationship to intimacy and attraction and all that stuff are early on. But I remember being in trouble because this dude, this boy, brought me a ring.
Erica: Because someone did something to you. I remember when I was in school, I was in third grade, and this little boy touched my butt and I wrote it in my diary. And I was on like high alert for like weeks thinking someone would find it in my diary. Like something was wrong with me. First, I would touch my butt in third grade. So I mean, could you be mad at him? And second, it wasn't my fucking fault. Right? And so, we're putting on little girls, because someone does this to you, you did something wrong. No, fuck that. Fuck you, Ms. Jenkins. Was it Jenkins?
Sheree L. Greer: Wilkerson.
Kenrya: That's not what she said.
Sheree L. Greer: It’s a Ms. Jenkins somewhere, that's shaming little girls, and fuck her, too.
Kenrya: Fuck her, too. I'm certain.
Erica: Okay. Too busy keking. Oh, how old were you when you had a sense of your gender identity?
Sheree L. Greer: I feel like I knew fairly early that I was a girl and I wasn't... Because I have sisters and like the only man in the house was my dad. And so we knew kind of a right away, it's a house full of girls and this dude. And so I knew fairly early that I was a girl, and I felt like a girl, whatever that means, but I also felt like the wrong kind of girl. And so I don't know that they still gender the toy sections, but I remember the toy sections being this just highly gendered area. And I always wanted to go in the boys section and I felt, I don't know, I felt like that was wrong. And I felt like I was bucking against something and that the things that I liked, weren't the things I was supposed to like.
Sheree L. Greer: And I remember I got this baby carriage, it must have been for Christmas one year. And I had this panda and a Cabbage Patch Doll named Nicholas. And I used to make them be cops. And I used to put them in the carriage, like that was their car. And so I'd be zipping through the house with the carriage and they'd get in crashes and all this stuff and I was having fun, but also you're doing it wrong. That's not what you're supposed to be doing. I felt that very early. And then the great disappointment of having to put on a shirt. When you leave that time of, that freedom of girlhood and then it's like, go put a shirt on. And you're like, "huh?" So I felt that.
Kenrya: I remember kind of dreading getting to that point with my kid, and not wanting to put that on her. But also... It's a hard norm to buck if you have your kids around people who are not your immediate family, right?
Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yeah. I very much actually remember like when we got to that point, but it wasn't actually ultimately me that told her to put a shirt on. She just decided that it was time to wear a shirt. So I ended up not having to tell her, but where did she get that from?
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah.
Erica: You did have to tell her to start wearing pants. She was a pants-less child. It was like-
Sheree L. Greer: [crosstalk 00:11:41] freedom.
Erica: Let me put on a shirt, but I'm going to run out with my booty out.
Kenrya: But then conversely, I had to coax her into sleeping free, like we do. So she could... When we start having conversations about like health, about reproductive health, and that was a whole thing then, trying to get her to then take them off. It's the things that you don't think you ever have to have, the conversations you never think you have to have until you have a kid and you are like, "Oh, they don't know shit. You got to teach them everything." And try not to teach them the terrible things.
Sheree L. Greer: Right. That's the hard part.
Erica: My son dresses like a Mormon. He would like wear under shirts nonstop. I'm like, "Dude, are you wearing like your God garment or whatever?" It'll be hot out, we going to the pool and he'll have an undershirt on under his swim shirt and I'm like, "Bro."
Kenrya: He doesn't do it anymore.
Erica: He does not. He does not.
Sheree L. Greer: Some of this shit just works itself out. You know what I'm saying? I never liked sleeping in bed clothes. They were like the worst. Your gown would get all twisted around your waist and shit. Take that shit off. And so, yeah I didn't have no problems with that. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think the only thing I really liked sleeping in and felt... it was so weird how on the one hand, I was getting these messages about what it means to be a little girl, how you supposed to act, what's acceptable and not acceptable, what's strange or different or weird. Therapy helped, but I have so much more compassion for my mom because I feel like I was a weird little kid and I think she was just trying to figure it out.
Sheree L. Greer: Because like she got me like R2D2 underoos and shit. And she bought me the stuff that I wanted. So I wanted a wrestling ring and the WWF action figures, and so she got that stuff with me without no sense of shame and things. But then also that was at home. So out in the world it was a different kind of message. So it was you going to wear this skirt, it's time to start being a girl in these kind of traditional ways. And I was like, "Oh, that's confusing" For sure. And that confusion followed me for decades, sadly.
Kenrya: Yeah. Well we know that you first started experimenting with Wanda.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah.
Kenrya: How old were you when you started experimenting with other people?
Sheree L. Greer: Seven or eight, but not... I mean, we talked about this a little bit. I was sexually abused by my uncle. So, that was the first time that another person was involved. And when I think about that, and I just finished trauma therapy about it earlier this year. That was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done and realizing that I carried so much shame and guilt around it. And again, Erica, like you were saying, these things happen to us and girls are basically reared to carry that shit, like we did something wrong and I carried that. And that's not what it is. So when I think about reasons why I kind of buried all of that so deeply, is I was afraid of some of the judgment and some of the false equivalencies that come out of talking about childhood sexual abuse.
Sheree L. Greer: So being queer, I had a very strong awareness later on, like I can't talk about this because people are going to be like, "Well, that's why your ass is gay." I was afraid of folks thinking that. And Wanda came before that.
Erica: He was like, "This is what's going to happen." Point blank.
Sheree L. Greer: But what I think though, especially after coming out of the therapy about it is I already felt wrong. I already felt like I had to hide something. I already felt like I had this shameful secret. So when that happened, it was almost like, well, this just goes in the same place where that was. So all of this shame, all of this wrongness, all of this, you're not the right kind of girl, your feelings are strange and wrong. All of that just got kind of bottled and hidden.
Sheree L. Greer: And what happened after is just immense, just lots of confusion and blame. And then also though, wanting to prove that I could be normal or I could be good or right. And all of that came out of that abuse. I wish that we talked more about asking your children, what are you afraid of? What do you think about this? I was just talking about this with my wife. People are so concerned with like what celebrities are doing and what all these... The way it affects our kids. And it's like, you worried about a Lil' Nas X video and it's just motherfucking brother that's fucking with your daughter. You know what I'm saying?
Kenrya: Worry about the wrong thing.
Sheree L. Greer: The threat, the call is coming from inside the house.
Erica: From inside the house. Right.
Sheree L. Greer: So I just think that, or I wish that, I was in a space then to feel like I wasn't doing something wrong. And I think about how much that could have helped with my partner, like developing my own sexual identity and my sexual self in just a healthier way, particularly when it came to partners and navigating that.
Kenrya: And separate from something that happened to you.
Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: That goes back to what we were talking about with fucking Ms. Wilkerson. We teach our kids, our girls especially, that they have no real autonomy that we are supposed to take on the shame and the responsibility of the things that other people do to us. And so it only would fucking make sense to not be able to separate those things. Nothing happens in the back end.
Erica: Yeah. No autonomy and all the responsibilities.
Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: That shit.
Sheree L. Greer: What the fuck is that?
Erica: Breeding ground for lots of co-dependence. Thank you, society.
Kenrya: And violence. I was raped in college and went through that same cycle as someone who, perhaps you would think, but fucking a 20-year-old is still a kid.
Sheree L. Greer: For sure.
Erica: Yep. So first, thank you for sharing that.
Sheree L. Greer: Thank y'all for the safety. I feel safe with y’all. So thank you.
Erica: You're welcome. Always, one of the most difficult things going through therapy was talking to little Erica and letting her know-
Sheree L. Greer: Girl-
Erica: The what day we did that exercise, I literally like cracked in half, because it's like, "Tell Erica it's not her fault. You were going to take care of her."
Sheree L. Greer: Girl.
Erica: How little Erica going to trust this blubbering idiot?
Sheree L. Greer: I did not know a person could cry and snot that much. When we got to that day, man.
Erica: Yeah. My therapist used to be in a spot with like a bunch of those little like rental offices or whatever. I remember that session. I was crying so loud. I remember at one point thinking they probably think she beating my ass in here.
Sheree L. Greer: My therapist had a little sound machine thing outside her door. A sound machine. So like I started because I'm getting even more and more are sentimental and just in touch with my feelings these days. So I started and I was trying to be hard about it. So I was trying, and then once it started hitting, she was like, "I'm just... Hold on real quick." And she turned that thing on. And then, man. Whoa, lord.
Kenrya: We talk about therapy on every episode and-
Sheree L. Greer: I'm here for it.
Kenrya: Going through that trauma, that portion, because I, too, had to work through all of that. And I remember being kind of continually surprised, and I still am, at how much trauma I experienced as a young person and how much I dissociated and didn't really recognize it for what it was until I would be in sessions and be describing stuff, and the therapist would be like, "Oh wait. You just looked me dead in my face and said that with a straight face. Do you hear what the fuck you just said?”
Sheree L. Greer: Yep. Yeah.
Recording: And I would be like, "What?" And she be like, "Say it again out loud. Slowly."
Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Whew. That shit's wild. But that's also part of what we are encouraged to do, right? Is you deal with it. You got shit to do. People are counting on you, so on and so forth.
Kenrya: Suck that shit up and roll. You supposed to be strong.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. And then with stuff that happened when you were a kid, it's almost like, man that's so that's so far long ago. It's like, "huh?"
Erica: Yeah. So now that we've opened our guts about-
Sheree L. Greer: Now we can talk about all the shit now.
Erica: Yeah. Now let's get even more in your cooch. Tell us about your first time having partnered sex. Consensual partner sex.
Sheree L. Greer: So, mine is so weird. So my high school boyfriend, and it's funny, because I ran into him a couple years ago. He's a bus driver in Milwaukee and I was in Milwaukee doing this workshop and I got on a bus, and he was like, "Sheree?" And I was like, "Oh."
Erica: That's wack.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. It was weird because... I had such a wave of emotions because I broke up with him on just some wack ass... Oh gosh, it was so bad. Well, no it wasn't bad. I broke up with him because I was about to start college. He was a year below me. My hot ass went to two college parties and I came home like, "Mm-mm (negative) I can't go into college with no boyfriend. I can't do it."
Erica: That was me. Who brings sand to the beach?
Sheree L. Greer: Oh no.
Kenrya: My dumb ass brought sand to the beach. It was all bad.
Sheree L. Greer: I was like uh-uh (negative). But all that to say, I met him my sophomore year and I had a strict don't-date-people-I-go-to-school-with rule in high school because I just didn't need you around all day like that. So I met him my sophomore year and he was like my best friend. Like we had much fun together. And mostly because he just let me do the non-girly that I like to do. So we played video games, we played basketball together. He was just so much fun and I loved kissing, and so we kissed like all the time. Erica, don't make that face. You're in the minority here, so. Okay.
Sheree L. Greer: We would kiss till we were like fucking dizzy and it was so great and I would just relax and all this stuff. So, but I was never ready to have sex. So he wasn't a virgin and I was. And so we would make out then the hands came and then what do they call it? The grinding. We got real close for like a year and a half and one of my best friends at the time... Because I feel like everybody in my friend group had had sex already except for me. And so that it was kind of like "Girl, what you waiting on? It's not a big deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And like I knew I wasn't waiting for marriage because I didn't even think I would ever get married anyway.
Sheree L. Greer: And so I knew I wasn't waiting for that. I was afraid of getting pregnant. That was foremost in my mind, especially because my older sister got pregnant at 17 and it like did all this weird shit to our family. And I was like, I definitely don't want to do that. So that's what I was afraid of. And he was just so sweet and nice and never pressured me or anything. And so his mom worked second shift and so we'd be at his house, unsupervised and one day I was just like, "Fuck it. I'm going to do it." And so we tried it was too painful. I was like, "Nope. Time out. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope." And he was just so gracious and sweet. I remember him being so sweet and then we tried again, a month or so later and it was fine.
Erica: That's beautiful.
Sheree L. Greer: I'm happy that was my experience.
Kenrya: Yeah. There's consent. There's listening. There's communicating needs and then ultimately fucking.
Erica: I'm going to take your story and tell my son that. So much better than fucking on a waterbed.
Sheree L. Greer: Well, I heard y'all episodes. It's just a different experience up around here. I was thinking about what Kenrya was saying, this buildup in your mind about what it's supposed to be and how it's supposed to be. And I don't think I ever really had that. It just felt like something, again, that I was like supposed to do. And that is how, in retrospect, I approached most of my sexual dealings with men. Was this is something that's expected. I'm supposed to do this. So let's just get it over with, let's just do it.
Kenrya: Yeah. How did you get to the point where you stopped feeling like that was what you had to do?
Sheree L. Greer: It took a long, long time. I actually remember the first guy that I did not have sex with because I didn't want to. And it was so awkward because he had invited me out to Cleveland, which is where he lived. And so he had sent me these... Even though he said... We were just friends and I was telling him, I'm not trying to be romantic or nothing. I'll come out and we'll hang out. It'll be fine. Just trying to make sure I'm being honest and he knows. He's like, "Oh no, it's not like that. It's not like that." He said he had a spare room, but when I got there, the spare room was like full of junk. It wasn't even no bed in there. So I was very upset by that.
Sheree L. Greer: But I was like, okay, I still try to have a good time. And so we had a good time until that night. So we slept in the same bed, but hella separated. And then he tried-
Erica: Started doing that scooch.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. And I had in my mind, I remember thinking I don't want to do this. I don't have to do this. And so I was like, "Mm-mm. No." And it was awkward because he turned back around and scooted over and then I think he masturbated. I'm pretty sure he was masturbating and it was freaking me out. But I didn't know anybody in Cleveland. I didn't. So I cut my trip very short and came back home. But even as gross and weird as that was, I felt like powerful in a way that I hadn't before.
Sheree L. Greer: And then that was the beginning of me thinking I don't ever have to fuck anybody I don't want to. So I remember that. But the journey was about... It was all tied in. So many things were happening in my life around that time. I was working a job. It's funny, working a job that I didn't want, really. I had taken my first creative writing class before I graduated. I was like, "Oh shit, I want to be a writer, but got this business degree." So I was working this job and feeling stuck. I had started dating women and kind of just exploring that a little bit. And I just started, I don't know... I just had this feeling. I was 25 and I was like, "this can't be life." There has to be more than this. And it just kind of gave way to little small moments of decisions that, and when you look at them in the whole, it's like, "Oh, you've grown up. You are becoming yourself." And then even that took some more decades.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's shit's real. I'm 40 and I feel like I'm still young. So when did you first have an orgasm with a partner that wasn't Wanda, what's her name?
Sheree L. Greer: It was with my high school boyfriend. We were going to break up eventually anyway, because he had feelings about going down on me that just wasn't going to fly. And I knew-
Erica: Yeah, that's a hard no-
Sheree L. Greer: I'm like, "This is not going to work." And so we had talked about it a couple times and I was just, I don't know. So I had in my mind that it wasn't. So then, there was this time we were doing it and he was always really good with his hands. And so that was a good night, but I feel like he was trying to prove to me that he didn't have to put his mouth on me or something. And I was like, "Man, that was really great. However..." It could have been greater. Yeah.
Erica: Okay. So what three words would you use to describe your sex in your teens?
Sheree L. Greer: I would say uncertain, perfunctory, and stressful.
Erica: Said like a writer. I would've used 10 words to come up with perfunctory. Yeah. Well you got to do it, but you don't, but you're doing it? Yeah.
Sheree L. Greer: Just going through the motions.
Erica: I love you writers. Y'all are the best. You want to tell us anymore about the three words?
Sheree L. Greer: I mean, in my teens, because it was such a... If I'm thinking teens, I didn't have sex till I was 17 going on 18. And that was with the one guy. And then I broke up with him pretty shortly after, and then my next partner was not my boyfriend. I didn't have another monogamous relationship until my twenties after that boy, after him. So my next partner was someone who was very enthusiastic about oral sex, which made me very happy. But, at the same time there was so many other messages about what you supposed to be doing when you're 19-20? What does it mean to be in college and what relationships should be like. And I was going on dates, and going on dates that weren't that enjoyable, but it's the end of the night. So what you supposed to do? Oh, well he invited me over or he's coming over. And so it just felt a lot like checking boxes off or something. This is how you are a free college girl. So that's where most of that comes from.
Kenrya: Okay. Right. So now, and I think we just kind of bled teens into twenties, but there's a bunch of years there. So what three words would you use for your twenties?
Sheree L. Greer: Exploratory, low-stakes, I guess. I guess that's one word.
Kenrya: We can put a hyphen.
Sheree L. Greer: So exploratory, low-stakes. And what would be a third word? Fun. Yeah. Fun. I had some fun.
Kenrya: That's what I hoping you were going to say.
Sheree L. Greer: I was like running through, because like I mentioned, I wasn't in any monogamous relationships for a long while. And so I'm just running through my sexual history and I'm like, "That was a lot of fucking going on." And a lot of it was fun because I was exploring and I was trying to figure things out. So definitely from 24 on, I was trying to find my groove, but yeah.
Kenrya: Tell us more about low-stakes.
Sheree L. Greer: Mostly because I really... So for the beginning part of my twenties, I was sleeping primarily with these two dudes. One was in town, one was out of town and it was really no expectations about things. And so in between that, knowing that this wasn't about a relationship, we weren't talking about where this is going and then I was also dating within that. It didn't feel like anything was really hanging in the balance. And again, I have to say that's from my perspective, because I do also acknowledge that my behavior at the time, like low-stakes, not giving a fuck, just doing me, not all of my sexual partners shared that perspective. And so that would cause some friction, but I would be like, "Oh, this isn't fun anymore. So I'm done." I didn't really have no qualms about just being like, "Oh, this isn't fun. I'm just not going to call you anymore." Or whatever.
Sheree L. Greer: Not really thinking about how that cut-off of communication or... I'd never told anybody like, "I love you" or "this is what I see for us." And things like that. I was careful not to kind of build up expectations for others, but at the same time, you never know what other people are thinking or hoping for in these instances. So I also know that during that time it was low-stakes for me, very selfishly. And I know for a fact that I hurt some people and I'm sorry for that.
Erica: I think it's dope that you were able to recognize that because in my twenties I did no wrong.
Erica: That was, so what about your thirties? Give us three words.
Sheree L. Greer: So I started dating my now-wife around the time that I was turning 30. So I was thinking deeply about this decade with her and I have probably never felt so cared for. So three words. Free, safe, and I'm going to say fun again. Because we have a lot of fun and I know that some of that comes out of the freedom and the safety, the security. We try stuff, we laugh a lot, we communicate about everything. There's no embarrassment around anything. There's no judgment around anything. And that's... I don't know. It's just really, really wonderful. It's really wonderful.
Erica: I'm happy for you.
Sheree L. Greer: Thank you. Thank you. We were listening to the episode, I think, when you did these questions Kenrya, and it was talking about feeling like those love songs and feeling like people talk about like a really great relationship and being like, "Man, that old corny ass shit," but then feeling that shit and being like, "Oh my God, like this-
Kenrya: It's unreal.
Sheree L. Greer: This don't feel... Yeah-
Kenrya: It's just unreal. And you just feel so, I don't know... I wake up every day, all this other shit is happening, but I just feel so blessed to be so loved. That's just wild. Good sex is good, but that shit hit different. It's just-
Erica: Well God, ya in the blessing business. I see it on my block.
Sheree L. Greer: It's coming. It's coming.
Erica: It's coming to this house. Knock, knock, knock.
Sheree L. Greer: It's coming. It's coming.
Kenrya: It's true, it's true.
Sheree L. Greer: It's coming.
Kenrya: It's true.
Sheree L. Greer: It's coming.
Kenrya: Yeah. It's just wild.
Erica: Okay. Sorry.
Kenrya: So tell us about a sexual experience that you remember fondly.
Sheree L. Greer: Remember fondly? So I was telling my wife about this episode and some of these questions. And so we were having a little debate about the definition of fondly and if it was like... We were both saying we don't want to be sitting here, like being all wistful and like talking about somebody else, you know what I'm saying? But also not being compelled to it just because I'm with you, and I'm in love with you that you are not my only positive sexual memory. So we were talking about fondly and how emotional fondly is. What do you mean when you say fondly? So I was thinking about two things. The first was the first time somebody went down on me. This dude, it just really made my whole entire life. I was so excited that somebody was... That it was happening and-
Erica: Code red, code red, it's happening, it's happening.
Sheree L. Greer: Because it was something that I wanted and my boyfriend at the time wouldn't do it. And I was like, "This is bullshit." I know that now. I'm 17 and I know that this is bullshit. And so it was just really great. It was just really, really great. Partly, or probably mostly, because I wanted it and I got it. You know what I mean?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative) yes. He was meeting a need. He actually heard you and did what you asked and gave a fuck about whether or not you got it.
Sheree L. Greer: Right. And so that is a fond memory, is that the first time. Then the other one that came to me, and I know... Jasmine might feel a way because we about to put it, it is about to be immortalized on the internet. We were just early dating and we used to frequent this club here in Tampa. And so one day, we were there hanging out. I love dancing. I'm not that great a dancer but I love dancing. And so I was dancing and then she was dancing. We were dancing together, was dancing with other people, all this stuff. And then at one point we were kind of separated and I remember we kind of locked eyes and then she came up to me. She's going to be like, "I can't believe you telling people this." But she came up to me and she whispered that she wanted... She was like, "I want to fuck you now." And we went out to her car.
Erica: Yes, cousin in law.
Sheree L. Greer: In the parking lot at this crowded ass club, we went back to her car and got it in. It wasn't in that moment that I knew I wanted to marry her. But, Yeah. That's one of my favorite, fond memories of her and our sex life.
Erica: That's dope.
Kenrya: So I, and I've talked about this on the show. I've never been able to come from head and it is... I would love to, I'm hoping one day it do happen, and I don't blame anybody's technique. It's just me in my head.
Kenrya: But I do have a head requirement and it's because, really going back to how dude wouldn't do it, and you're like, "This is what I want." I suck dick. I'm good at it. I enjoy it. It is one of the tools I have in my arsenal. But guess what has to happen? We need some fucking reciprocity.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah.
Kenrya: Not gagging on nothing, if you ain't gagging on nothing.
Sheree L. Greer: Right?
Kenrya: And I was with someone who, once upon a time, who would do it, but he was just real lackluster. He ain't want to do it. And he would complain about me being wet. And I'm like, the fuck?
Erica: That's the best part.
Sheree L. Greer: I know.
Kenrya: It was always something. And I was like, “The fuck? How are you complaining?" And ultimately that's what ended up breaking us up because it was one of a... It just showed me what his mentality was and what he was willing to put in. And if you're going to fucking complain about this, but you don't have no problem with me sucking your dick, then... And so I remember the last time he complained, I was like, "Bet, I'm not sucking your dick no more." We were done within a few weeks after that.
Sheree L. Greer: Because it's ridiculous.
Kenrya: It was what it symbolized.
Sheree L. Greer: It's like when people be like, "Look for the red flags," that's a red flag to me.
Kenrya: That's a red flag.
Sheree L. Greer: That's a red flag. And I-
Erica: Not sharing your food is a red flag to me. If you don't share your food, you don't eat ass. And I remember I went out to dinner with this guy and this is was first date. We went out to dinner. And we were eating off each other's plate. And I was like, "Can you believe I went out with this guy and he wouldn't share his food." And he looked me dead and was like, "He don't eat ass," and I was like, "You right."
Sheree L. Greer: See, see, things like that that tell you what's what.
Erica: What you're getting into-
Sheree L. Greer: Because I've never been shy about trying anything sexually, especially. Let's give it a go. And so back when I was dating men, I suck dick, no problem. Let's go. But then I kept, like you said, [crosstalk 00:49:02] Exactly.
Erica: I ain't complaining.
Sheree L. Greer: That's a flag. And then something interesting happened, too. When I started dating women exclusively, because I am probably a, what do they call it? Masculine of center or whatever shit is, because I don't wear dresses and don't carry a purse. But this idea that I don't... That I'm supposed to always be like the aggressor or I'm supposed to do you, I'm supposed to fuck you. It's like- yeah. Mm-mm (negative) No. I've dated a couple women who were like that. And I roll on my back. It's my turn. Like what's-
Erica: Your knee be up. What you want?
Sheree L. Greer: Want me to get on my knees, turn over, what? What we about to do? And really been like-
Erica: Stingy motherfuckers.
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. I can't take no stingy lover. I can't do it. I can't do it.
Kenrya: I do want to like say, I always like to say this when I'm talking about what folks have to do. The reality is, right, different people have different boundaries and different things that they're comfortable with. And those can be informed by their trauma, by their past, by all of that. And that is fine. But that doesn't mean that we have to have sex with each other.
Sheree L. Greer: That part, that part. Yep. You're a hundred percent free-
Erica: As for me, and my house.
Sheree L. Greer: Exactly.
Erica: And this pussy.
Sheree L. Greer: Yes.
Erica: That's what's happening.
Sheree L. Greer: Yes, exactly.
Erica: Other than hot, what does your sex life look like now?
Sheree L. Greer: I'm not going to lie. The working from home and all the pandemic bullshit has played a role in our sex life. We've both been feeling like really exhausted by just things and neither one of us... If I'm not in the mood, I'm not in the mood. And I've been finding that the things that can take me out of the mood are just more frequent and just... Everybody is trying to find their way through. This is going on two years, this is a fucked up time. And so work, stress, all this stuff. So it's been a lot of intimacy and a lot of talking and just trying to care for each other and be there for each other, which has been welcome. But then we've also been having conversations about like... Because we haven't taken any real trips, other than I took her, I took Jasmine for our birthday earlier this year out to Hollywood Beach. But we haven't been anywhere. We haven't done anything.
Sheree L. Greer: So we've been trying. The other day... No, yeah this was the other day. We were talking about how our dog, Knight, kind of keeps us captive in terms of where we could fuck in our own house, like this dude pay bills. Because he'll come up... So we was shaking it up and we was like, "Let's fuck in the guest room." It's a different place, right? But the bed is lower in there. So we trying to get it on the dog will get up on the bed and start licking my foot or my ankle. And you got to decision to make because like you can keep going, but then it's like, are you having a threesome with the dog at this point? That's disgusting and gross. Or do you stop? And then now we got to try to put the dog out the room and close the door and then he's outside the door.
Sheree L. Greer: And nobody wants to fuck while that's going on. So we-
Kenrya: What did y’all do?
Sheree L. Greer: We did end up closing the door. We had to kick him out the room. We closed the door. And so that helps. But we just always be trying to keep it fresh and keep each other interested. But we have noticed that we have to work a little bit harder now that we're both working from home and everything's just kind of wearing on us. So sex life now is a bit more effort than it has been in the past in terms of getting in the mood, making the time, kicking the dog out, stuff like that.
Kenrya: How often would you say on average, do you have some kind of sexual contact?
Sheree L. Greer: Every day. So touch is my love language. It is number motherfucking one. Okay. And hers is not though. Her number one is quality time, which is my dead last one. See-
Kenrya: That's my number one.
Sheree L. Greer: That's my dead last one, which is interesting. But every day there's some kind of sexual touch going on. That goes, that can always be to jump off to something or just in passing. And we have this kind of running joke where it's like the day I'm not trying to grab your booty in the grocery store is the day you know something's up. You know what I mean? If you not in the kitchen putting up the dishes and I come up on you in body roll against you, something is up.
Kenrya: Ask me some questions.
Sheree L. Greer: “Sheree ain't tried to touch my titty in about a week. Something's going on, who you fucking?” So it's always something. It's always something.
Erica: Are there certain times of the day that are better for you to have sex? Just because your brain's better, your mind's clearer, whatever?
Sheree L. Greer: I am very easily aroused. It don't matter to me. Her on the other hand, is probably mornings, which, I like I anytime basically. But if so she wants mornings, it's mornings. She want afternoon, it's afternoon. Just say the word basically. I'm just at your service. Let's go.
Erica: So where do you guys typically do it? And how long does the session usually last?
Sheree L. Greer: In the bedroom and it depends. Because Jasmine's very like, "Let's get to it." Like that's she likes to get to it.
Kenrya: She's such an Aries.
Sheree L. Greer: I told you, I told you, I told you. I know that she enjoys kissing, but it's not a requirement for her. She can look at the time and be like, "Let's see it's 10:30. I'm going down. So if you want some, it needs to happen right now."
Kenrya: Right now.
Sheree L. Greer: And so in times like that, it's like, "Let's get to it." And it could be anywhere between, I don't know, shit, 10 minutes to 20 minutes to get to the business. And we've been together long enough if we want to come fast, we know what to do to get in there and make it happen. Now me, I like all the extras. And so I have, I guess... It's not a safe word, but it's... I don't know what you'll call it. I'll tell her if we been having too many just quick get to it sessions, I'll tell her I need some tenderness tonight or I need a little tenderness and she'll be like, okay.
Erica: “Let me stretch.”
Sheree L. Greer: All right. And that would be a longer session with all the touching and kissing and all that stuff.
Kenrya: What's the best part of your sex life right now?
Sheree L. Greer: I would say the freedom of it. Just feeling free to ask for what I want, feeling free to decline if it's something that I don't want to do, and knowing that nothing's attached to it, you know what I mean? The freedom to kind of be comfortable in my body and know that my body is appreciated and loved and wanted. Those feelings are so important for me. And all of that is part of feeling free to be yourself and not be judged in anything that you want or don't want. And that's been the best part.
Kenrya: So what's the most frustrating part?
Sheree L. Greer: Probably her wanting to just get to the business. That gets frustrating at times when I have to say like, "Okay, we've been getting to the business a while. Let's slow down." Exactly, or like, "let's slow down." Because I usually have to be vocal about that. And I have to say it, because if not, we'd always just be like bop bop bop bop.
Erica: "I finished!"
Sheree L. Greer: Yes, exactly. But I will say, it's interesting, and I feel like this is a very Aries thing to do, because it's not necessarily revenge, but it feels like, “Bitch I told you.” Right? So I'll be saying, "Man, I need a little tenderness, whatever, whatever," but then she'll just bring it real quick without no tenderness, and it'll be awesome. And I'll be about to pass out, go to sleep. And she'll be like, "Told you, you didn't need all that. You didn't need all that. I just needed to get her there. Get to it. So night, night talk to you in the morning.” Damn. She was right.
Kenrya: How often do you masturbate?
Sheree L. Greer: I would say multiple times a week.
Sheree L. Greer: I get nice with myself regularly.
Kenrya: What's your technique now?
Sheree L. Greer: We have some toys, but when I don't feel like doing all that, I just rub one out real quick, in the bathtub or you know what, I need to relax. And then [inaudible 01:01:22] That's the sound. And then night, night.
Kenrya: Night, night.
Erica: So do you ever have trouble turning off the day and focusing on bodily pleasure?
Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. As of late. As of late. And I know that's, like I said, this pandemic shit wearing on, being in Florida where it feels very hopeless when we have conversations about what next month is going to look like, what the next season's going to look like. Just the leadership is astounding in its idiocy. It's a lot of that.
Sheree L. Greer: And then again, like just being in this space where I'm going through career transition and feeling fully supported and knowing that everything's going to be fine, but also anxiety and worry is something that I always have to work on. And so there are times when my brain just won't stop and I'll just be... The day is over and it's time to relax and I can't stop. The wheels just won't stop. And so I've been having to do more things intentionally to try to bring myself into the present moment, whether that be, I'm just going listen to some music for a while, or have an impromptu dance party, or let me watch something. Just to get out of that thinking space. Baths do it for me a lot. It's been a challenge. It's been a challenge.
Erica: Okay. Sure, sure. If you could snap your fingers and change anything about your sex life, but would it be?
Sheree L. Greer: Snap my fingers, change... I'm going to tell y'all. I love my dog to death. I do, but I would snap my fingers and make that little nigga disappear sometime just so I can, I don't know, spontaneously fuck in the kitchen.
Erica: Yes. [crosstalk 01:04:11] Yeah.
Sheree L. Greer: Without the dog sitting and staring or licking at my feet or something. Seriously. Seriously.
Erica: My dog licks himself, and one time we was getting it in and all of a sudden we heard-
Sheree L. Greer: Right, right. Exactly.
Erica: I was like, "Dude we don't need a soundtrack."
Sheree L. Greer: We don't need that.
Sheree L. Greer: I mean, there's been times and we are in the bedroom getting it in and then you kind stop and be like, "Wait, is that you? It's not you making that noise. It's a dog making that noise." That nigga's got to go. He got to go.
Sheree L. Greer: So I feel like-
Kenrya: Y’all just adding to the reasons why my child is never going to have a pet in my house.
Sheree L. Greer: I don't know that all dogs are like that, but I know that Knight, he is a very sensitive little dude. He loves cuddling-
Kenrya: He like, "What we doing?"
Erica: I'm single. So my dog be like, "What you doing to my mama? It was a different man last time."
Sheree L. Greer: But he would, he would literally... Let's say we making out in the kitchen. He'll come and be like, "Is that love I hear?" And then come in and want to like jump up on my legs or her legs and like get in the mix. And it's like, "This ain't the kind of love that involves you, bro. This ain't for you." So I would like to be able to have a little bit more spontaneity in terms of location and shit. Which, we think we're going to be expanding our family soon. So we might just have to send Knight to stay with his grandma for a couple weeks or something. Yeah. Because after the kids come, it's over-ish.
Kenrya: You just made me excited.
Erica: What is a sex best practice that you want to share with our listeners?
Sheree L. Greer: Sex best practice? I would say, it sounds trite, but communication above of all things. Communication, which I feel like encapsulates consent, which is sexy as hell, which encapsulates knowing what you want and what you don't want and communicating that to your partner. Yeah, communication. Just talking about it, asking about it, saying what's on your mind saying anything. If you can't be open and honest in your communications about sex with the person you're having sex with, that's probably the biggest red flag of all. Even in, in terms of whether you're satisfied or not, or what you could use more of, or less of. If you can't talk those things out freely and confidently, without fear of retribution or resentment or some kind of emotional abuse response, that's a problem. So being able to think through what you want, what you don't want, what you like, what you don't like, being able to ask for it, being able to say, "No, I don't want that," being able to speak your mind and to communicate is the number one ingredient to some top-notch sex, I think.
Erica: So would you rather give up partnered sex or masturbation?
Sheree L. Greer: Oh, masturbation, no question. I'd give it up. As much as I enjoy it, I would give it up.
Erica: That's because y'all getting good sex over there. Give up sex with my partner? That's amazing. That's where I'm like, "Eh, ain't nothing changed. Ain't nothing different over here if I gave it up."
Kenrya: What do you hope that people will learn from this walk through your sex life?
Sheree L. Greer: I don't feel like I dropped no jewels, but I will say that I-
Kenrya: You see how we looking at you.
Sheree L. Greer: I mean, I was really nervous and I have been a ball of anxiety around talking about my sex life, my sexual past in particular. And I think I shared this in a comment of one of y’all shows. I forget who y'all were talking to, but I be all on the comments on the YouTube. It's one of my favorite things to do.
Kenrya: You do. I feel like it feels like it's like another opportunity for me to talk to you cause I go through and moderate those. And I'm like, "Hey, Sheree!"
Sheree L. Greer: Mostly, when I'm listening at, because like I put it on, because when I'm at the dumb ass day job, I got the two screens and so I'll have y'all up on this screen and then I'll be doing college bullshit on this screen. And so something will happen or somebody will say something and I'll be like, "ha!" And then I got to flip over there and say something. I think I put, I forget who y’all were talking to, but I commented that I used to feel like different kind of pressure in conversation about my sexual history, particularly in terms of the time I spent sleeping with men and how all of that is part of my story. And I am not one of those lesbians who are like, "Ugh, disgusting dicks." I never felt like that. I don't feel like that.
Sheree L. Greer: And so if anybody takes anything away, I hope it's that conversations about your sexual history, if you are open to talk about it, don't be scared of that shit. It helps when you're able to talk to two people you love and respect. So, that makes it easier. But none of it defines you. Nothing you did defines you. You define you and you get to be the person who decides what matters and what doesn't, what you hold onto or what you let go. And always just stand in that. So, that's what I'm hoping.
Erica: Well, you did drop lots of jewels. Yeah, and I think someone tweeted a while back and we got fake offended where she was like, "It was really nice listening to older Black women discuss their sex lives." I was like, "Who's old?"
Kenrya: Somebody said that about us.
Erica: Yeah. But I think that is great that we're-
Sheree L. Greer: They said “old” or “older”?
Kenrya: It's all relative.
Erica: But you know what-
Kenrya: And I appreciate it-
Sheree L. Greer: But I feel like this is exactly who should be talking about it. But also, I would hope that younger people, I was about to say younger mo-fos, motherfuckers, but I don't want to disrespect them like that, that are listening, or hopefully they will listen in, because none of this even makes sense till you get out of it. And so teens, fucking twenties, like none of this shit makes sense until you can stop for a minute-
Erica: Step back-
Sheree L. Greer: There ain't no stopping and stepping back in your teens and twenties, it is go, go, go, go, go.
Kenrya: And nobody's talking to you like this, right? I always have... I've collected mentors because I didn't really have my mom around. And so, one of the ways that I've always moved through the world is that older Black women would see me and be like, "Oh, you mine now." And that is so much of how I have moved through the world. But none of them have ever talked to me about fucking.
Sheree L. Greer: And they're not. They not.
Kenrya: They never talked to me about bad relationships until we got older. And we started talking about their bad relationships and then we were counseling each other. But I really could have used these kind of conversations in my twenties to help me understand, to know that not wanting to give me head was a fucking red flag, right? To be able to recognize when the shame of something that some nigga did to me was being placed on me and keeping me silent and keeping me from seeking help. But I didn't know any of that stuff.
Sheree L. Greer: That's why this show is so important.
Erica: And that's why it's important to have... That's why I appreciate having you on, because you're sharing this. And I feel like this... I don't want to say they're mistakes, but we did this living to help impart this knowledge. At the very least, let me get something out of this-
Kenrya: We go through that so you ain't got to go through that.
Erica: And let me get something out of this motherfucking heart break and this bullshit.
Sheree L. Greer: Even if, and not even if, they will. We going to make the same shit, but just think about how it feels to be like, "Oh, I was also fucking up. This person was, and they're okay." Every time y'all get on the screen, the mic, whatever, you are an example that, you are okay. You going to be all right. You going to make it through. So I feel like, even listening, not even as a way of like, "I did these things, so you don't have to." They going through them. They going to do it, but then it's something to say, "Oh, I don't have to be ashamed of this. Or there's people talking about this. I'm not alone in these preconceived notions or mistakes or whatever that is." And so then it's building a sense of community that's steeped in, not just survival from shit but thriving and being like, "This is okay. I'm okay. This is okay."
Sheree L. Greer: So yeah, I told my niece, speaking of older, she just turned 21 and I was like, "What the hell is going on?" But I told her to check this show because I also don't want her coming up in the silo that is my family where we didn't talk about sex. Nothing. Nothing like my mama just now, she sent me a sex joke meme the other day. And I was like, "It's because I'm it's because I'm over 40." She can now make sex jokes with me. I looked at it and I was like, "Mama?" It's because I'm over 40. And to prove it, when I looked at the details, she sent it to me and my older sister, who's 47.
Sheree L. Greer: But she ain't send it to my younger sister, who's 35. So I've crossed some threshold of being able to talk about sex with my mom. Now that I'm fucking 40.
Erica: Five years till you get these memes!
Sheree L. Greer: I'm like, "What is that?" Y'all, this show is, is necessary and takes the stigma and it just makes it fun and inclusive and inviting. So yeah.
Erica: So, last question.
Sheree L. Greer: Okay.
Erica: What is turning you on today?
Sheree L. Greer: Oh, this conversation. I feel like I'm looking at the time. Shit, my wife is off today, because she took off the whole weekend for my birthday. I'm looking at the time. I got a workshop later, but I might have to go get some tenderness right quick.
Erica: Go get some tenderness.
Sheree L. Greer: Go get some tenderness right quick. Yeah. That's what's turning me on. Having my birthday and feeling loved is turning me on right now. And this conversation is an extension of that. So, yeah.
Kenrya: We love you.
Sheree L. Greer: Aw.
Kenrya: So you mentioned something earlier and it was, you're talking about times of transition and support in your work. And I want to make sure that we don't go without telling folks how they can support your work because I support your work.
Sheree L. Greer: Yes we do.
Erica: Yes I do, too.
Sheree L. Greer: As do you.
Kenrya: Exactly. And we think it is important to give money to people who we love, who are doing work. Doing great work.
Sheree L. Greer: I appreciate that.
Erica: Y’all gonna spend that $15 on some bullshit. Spend it on your cousin.
Kenrya: So how can folks support your work?
Sheree L. Greer: The easiest way to get to everything that I'm doing is to visit my website, ShereeLGreer.com. I have a-
Kenrya: Can you spell that please?
Sheree L. Greer: Oh, S-H-E-R-E-E-L-G-R-E-E-R.com. There's a link to my Patreon where I'm really trying to lean into my creative practice and how that speaks to my building community and helping get even more voices out in the world. I am an independent writing teacher and writing coach. All the ways that you can connect with me are on that website. But also I have... My short story collection, "Once and Future Lovers" turns 10 next year. And so I put this as a giveaway. I don't know how y'all going to run it, but I provided a copy of one of my most beloved, I guess people really like this one particular story, from the collection for a free download, wherever y'all want to post it, in celebration of leaning into this 10th anniversary. I'm going to reissue a book and we're doing a book tour, virtual book tour about the book, kind of a decade later. So I'd love to chat with y'all again about it. Yeah. So all of this lusciousness is going on. Sheree L. Greer is a place to find everything. So, very much appreciate it.
Kenrya: Word. So y'all will be able to go to the show notes for this episode to get your download.
Sheree L. Greer: Free short story.
Kenrya: That's awesome. Yes. Thank you. And I don't want to let you go, but we got to, because we've been on for a long time.
Sheree L. Greer: It's all good.
Erica: Like as soon as we can, we got to visit you. Y'all got to visit us, something. Because-
Sheree L. Greer: Please. Please.
Erica: Seeing you and spending time with you makes me realize like, "Damn, I fucks with her hard.
Sheree L. Greer: Same.
Erica: I miss cousin.
Kenrya: And I don't actually have a lot of people that I fuck with?
Sheree L. Greer: Yo. So I'm trying to tell y'all the shit just clicked. I was thinking, when I took the survey... The survey's still going on or it's closed?
Kenrya: It's closed. It's closed.
Sheree L. Greer: When I took the survey was like, "How did you hear about us or whatever?" And I was thinking about that first email and I was like, "Oh, shit. How did I not know this was happening?" So I looked y'all up. And then I listened to all the back episodes and I was like, "Oh my God, I love them. Is that weird?” And so then when I was on the show, the first time I was like, "Okay, just be cool because they don't really know you-know you yet, but you feel like you know them because you listen to all them episodes. So just be cool, be yourself." I felt like we was on a friend date or something.
Erica: Pass the test.
Sheree L. Greer: Yes. Be cool. But I don't know, shit just clicked. And I don't know, I just love y'all so much, so yeah.
Kenrya: Thank you for coming on.
Sheree L. Greer: Thank you for having me again. Anytime, every time. Just shout me out.
Kenrya: Again, I'm always going to say you might regret saying-
Sheree L. Greer: I will not. I will not. I will not. I don't say that to everybody. So I will not. I'm very thoughtful in who I say anytime, every time to, so I will not regret it.
Kenrya: That's what's up. Yay. That's what we love. And we are a hundred percent sure that y'all have not regretted listening to this episode at all. Thank y'all for spending this time with us. And we going to let y'all go. And we going to see y'all next week.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions.
Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.