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This week, we're revisiting Season 2, Episode 4. In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read from Tasha Harrison's "A Taste of Her Own Medicine" and discuss their complicated relationship with hand jobs, dating after divorce and the art of picking good partners.
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Erica: Okay. Hey, y'all we're back to quench some gooches. Kenrya's like, "No."
Kenrya: I'm on mute cause I was naming the episode and I didn't want y'all to hear me typing.
Erica: Clickity clack, clack, clickity clack.
Kenrya: Exactly. And then I was just laughing into the void where no one could hear me.
Erica: Okay, this week we are going to listen to season two episode four titled, Second Time Around, which is... This was a good one.
Kenrya: It is a good one, you picked a great one. It is in a lot of ways our lives, which we said on the show.
Kenrya: Yeah. Like this is like...
Erica: That was the episode that I said I had breast cancer. It was like that again. I was like, yo, we was in our bag on that bitch, that was a good episode.
Kenrya: Every time I hear that term, even though it predates this, I think of that meme with...
Erica: With the bitches.
Kenrya: The two Black chicks, with the bags on their feet...
Erica: Me too! Me too! In our bag.
Kenrya: We've been ruined by meme culture.
Erica: Yes. That was a really good episode.
Kenrya: That was us.
Erica: And I liked that it... Because it was talking about divorce, and I feel like each season has themes.
Erica: Yeah, and season two was definitely about divorce, independence, learning who you are, that kind of thing because the other one about to do... But yeah, I got warm and fuzzies when I listened to this episode, cause I was like, this was a good one.
Kenrya: It was a good one. I listened to the reading, which I don't always do because I'm like, that's a lot of Kenrya, when she was talking about sucking dick or no, about being rough. And she was like, I don't think my ex has ever... I don't know that she'd ever done that with him or whatever. And I just wrote "bitch ass nigga ex-husband" in my notes.
Erica: Yes. Bitch ass nigga ex-husband.
Kenrya: Bitch ass nigga ex-husband. That's all.
Erica: Yeah. I mean that was a wild one.
Erica: Also, just thinking about how far we've come and I think I was talking about a nigga I had just met.
Kenrya: Yeah you were because you were like...
Erica: I told him I had...
Kenrya: Some of the ignorant shit that they said about you having cancer.
Erica: “Your pussy ain't going nowhere.”
Kenrya: Right, right.
Erica: “You get a mastectomy in your pussy?” Like no.
Kenrya: Yeah, definitely in listening to this, I was like, “Ugh, fuck that dude.”
Erica: Yeah, he got...
Kenrya: Yes he did.
Erica: Curbed [crosstalk 00:03:07]. Yeah, this was a good one. I just feel like that this episode really... It shows us where we were in a specific time, but at the same time, like really... And this was right before we knew the pandemic was hitting. So, it was also just... It was a very different time.
Kenrya: It's like a time capsule, but also, I remember listening to it and being like, maybe people will really get something out of this episode.
Erica: I hope so. I feel like this one, people will.
Kenrya: I mean, obviously I hope y'all get something out of every episode. That's why we do it, but this one just felt very personal. Like we shared a lot of shit.
Erica: It definitely felt like we were journaling or...
Erica: [inaudible 00:03:57].
Kenrya: And it was still early enough that we weren't re-sharing stuff. You know what I'm saying? Because, now we in season five. First of all, I be having to remember if I told the story already because yeah. But there was still so much unshared at that point and this, because of the subject matter of the book, it was just like, we was like, let's go.
Erica: Yeah. Let's see where it takes us.
Kenrya: Here's all of our stuff. Exactly. Yeah.
Kenrya: So this is a tender one.
Erica: (Singing). And with that wine, weed, whatever you need.
Kenrya: Wait, can I just say? So y'all, Erica comes up with the songs for the episodes because if y'all haven't noticed, all of the whole episodes, the non-interviews, are named after songs. If you didn't notice, I don't know how you could not notice that, but just in case. And she sends them to me so I can do the graphics.
Erica: Sometimes Kenrya will be like "Bitch, a white woman?" I'm like, “Okay, I'll find a new one.”
Kenrya: Yeah. So they're all like...
Erica: I only use old, unproblematic, white friends.
Kenrya: Yeah but I don't think any of those have made it through because...
Erica: They don't.
Kenrya: I'm always like, “No.”
Erica: It's like every time I try to propose, I'm like, “Okay, she's unproblematic,” and Kenrya's like, “Nope.”
Kenrya: Yeah. Because I think it was Kelly Clarkson the last time it was a white person and no, not problematic but you know, it's just like on Crissel and West.
Erica: She gonna do something and we gonna be like, you know what, now we got to update everything.
Kenrya: Exactly. Yeah, we never do. But what I was going to say is every time I then go to do social, the songs be stuck in my head.
Kenrya: So I'm like walking around singing the most... Usually the songs be like from our childhood, it'd be like old ass R&B, which is great.
Erica: Again, I'm in my auntie bag.
Kenrya: Yes, but it would be songs that I completely forgot about and then they'd be so good and they be stuck in my head just from doing social or whatever. So thank you for that gift of remembering songs that I once truly loved.
Erica: You're welcome.
Kenrya: Yes. Thank you.
Erica: All right.
Kenrya: Okay. Now y'all can listen.
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Tay Keith, fuck these niggas up. Is that what he's saying?
Kenrya: I think so, yes.
Erica: I don't know if he be fucking things up anyway. Tay Keith you always have a place in my heart for that... “Before I Let Go.” Nonetheless.
Kenrya: I love it.
Erica: Hey you all. Welcome to this week’s episode of The Turn On. This week we are going to jump right in it. We are reading “A Taste of Her Own Medicine,” which was published in 2019 by Tasha L. Harrison. This book came highly recommended by two of our listeners, Michelle and Nicole, and this one hits a little close to home. Sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get your whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “A Taste of Her Own Medicine,” by Tasha L. Harrison. The hand between my leg shifted to cup me more fully, the heel of his hand creating a delicious pressure against my mound. I rolled my hips and a bright spark of pleasure made my eyes roll back in my head. "Poor baby," he whispered. "Your tight little pussy still aching, huh?" This kind of talk, this dirty talk, I always thought it was silly. I wondered how it could be sexy, but I swear when he asked me about my tight, aching pussy, all I could do was nod. "I know it is. I'm aching for you too."
Kenrya: He shifted in his seat and his right hand grabbed his dick. I watched him, mesmerized by the way he handled himself, wondering if he wanted me to handle him that roughly. I was never rough with Eric, he didn't like it that way, but could I be that way with Atlas? "Hey," he said softly, drawing my attention back to his face. "What were you going to do to me when you reached for my pants by the falls," he asked? Now that the moment passed, I suddenly felt shy about my thoughts and actions in that moment. "I didn't really think it through. I just wanted to feel you in my hands." "Hmm," he grunted. "You still want to?"
Kenrya: Just like that, with that simple suggestion, my palms tingled wanting that intimate caress. "Yes," I said with a nod. "I want you to. Can you?" he begged. "Right here," I asked glancing around? It was dusk and the parking lot was full of cars, but no one was walking around. "Right here, upstairs, I don't care where. I just need you to touch me. I don't think I can spend another night like this." We kissed again and I felt him tremble when my hand rested on his chest. He was practically vibrating. "Right here," I said. "I can't go upstairs with you. If I go upstairs." He nodded, understanding the things I left unsaid. I wanted him, there was no denying that, but so much had happened today and I'd crossed so many boundaries, and I knew that if I went upstairs with him I was going to want more than just a touch, more than just a kiss. His hands wouldn't be enough.
Kenrya: "Okay," he agreed, then glanced around the still quiet parking lot. "Right here." I gathered up his soft t-shirt and slipped my hand under it to touch his muscled chest and drifted lower to caress his belly, the ridged topography of his abdomen. When my fingers tangled in the trail of hair that led to the place between his legs, his whole body quaked. "You okay?" "Yes, I just want your hands on me." "Okay," I whispered and tugged at the drawstring of his sweats. His desire was so acute it seemed like physical pain. I knew and understood how that felt. It's the same way I felt in the greenhouse, but I'd never known anyone to feel that way about me.
Kenrya: The dusk deepened around us, casting the world outside the car in shadow. It made the interior of the Subaru feel cocoon like. Condensation formed on the windows adding to that secretive intimacy as I reached into his pants. He was big and hard in his pants and pulsed when my knuckles skimmed the silky fabric of his boxer briefs. I broke away from the kiss to look down at him, to watch myself reach into his boxers and take him in my hand. He was smooth and velvety soft against my palm. Atlas hissed and lifted his hips to tug down his pants a little further. His dick, now free of its constraints, leaped into my hand. I closed my hand into a loose fist and drew it up his length. "Oh God, Sonja," he breathed. His head fell back against the headrest. I looked at him. God he was so damn beautiful. His eyes were closed and his thick lashes made dark shadows on his sculpted cheek bones. He rolled his hips, urging me silently to draw my hand down his thick length and back up again.
Kenrya: He swallowed and I tracked the way his Adam's apple bobbed. I had no idea what I was doing. It'd been more than a year since I'd even touched a man intimately, and I'd only ever been with my husband. "Hey," I whispered. Atlas opened his eyes and looked at me. "Show me how you like it." I drew my hand up his length again. "Do you like it hard or soft? Do you want me to put my mouth on it?" "Shit," he cursed and his dick grew harder in my hand if that was even possible and a bead of precum formed at the tip. I leaned over and lapped it up. "Jesus Soni." "Show me how to please you," I begged softly. His big hand closed around mine, tightening my grip, then drew both of our hands up and over the fat, wet tip of his dick. On the downstroke he thrust upward, forcing himself through my clenched fist. The sight of it was so erotic that my pussy clenched, releasing a gush of moisture that dampened the crotch of my leggings.
Kenrya: Needing him inside of me in some way, I wrapped my lips around the tip of him again and he whimpered. "Like that," I whispered? "Hard, but slow, like this?" I asked, squeezing him and drawing my hand up over the tip. "Yes," he nodded, thrusting into my hand again. "Just like that." He hooked his hand around the back of my neck and pulled me in. His kiss was deeper, hungrier, more reckless. It took all of my willpower to keep my pants on, to keep my ass in my seat, to keep from sitting on that beautiful dick in my hands. Atlas grasped at me, kissed me hard, then pulled away to watch, seemingly torn between wanting me closer and wanting me to make him come. I pulled away to take him in my mouth again. I've never felt so compelled to suck a man’s dick before, to see this strong, devastatingly handsome young man come apart because of me.
Kenrya: I teased him, sucking hard on the tip and every time his hips lifted the tiniest bit, thrusting deeper into my mouth. I knew what he wanted, but I waited until he asked for it. "Please Soni," he begged. His hips rolled upward again. "Please…" I moaned and swallowed him down. Taking him in as deeply as I could until his cockhead hit the back of my throat. "Oh fuck Sonja," he moaned loudly. "Fuck." I looked up at him. He was gone, lost on the edge of bliss from what I was doing to him with my mouth. "Baby…baby I'm about to come." I hummed, closed my eyes and took him in deeper. "Oh fuck, you just gon…baby wait, no." He made a sound that was somewhere between a chuckle and a moan, tensed, and came, flooding my mouth and moaning my name. I swallowed him down, sucking and licking every drop from his dick until he started to twitch and jerk. He pulled me off of him and brought my lips to his.
Kenrya: "Why'd you do that?" he whispered, kissing me hard, that same hard hungry kiss he'd given me at the start. Could he taste himself on my tongue? "Why'd you do that? You didn't have to do that," he said, his voice full of gratitude. Was that reverence? "I know. I wanted to." "You're amazing, Jesus, Sonja." He kept kissing me. “It's been a long time since I've done anything like that or even wanted to.” I pulled away a little so I could look him in the eye. "Thank God you came when you did. I was two seconds away from crawling over this console." He shook his head. "This is a complete 180 from crying when I made you come in the greenhouse this morning." I shrugged and slid my hand under his shirt. “Maybe it's the come-to-me oil, but there's no denying that you bring it out of me.” Atlas sighed, "Same," he murmured, "So much same."
Kenrya: He covered my hand with his. "You laughed before you came," I said, remembering that moment. "Is that normal for you?" "I don't know, my attention's usually focused elsewhere." "No one's ever mentioned it before?" "No," his brow furrowed. "Is that your way of asking me how many girls I've been with?" he asked, smoothing his hand over my cheek. "No…I just thought it was cute and unusual." But now I was wondering. How many women had he been with? Who was the last woman he was with? Was she my age or much younger with a firmer ass and a belly without stretch marks? He stopped my self-deprecating thoughts with another kiss. "Maybe we'll talk about that next time, when you actually come upstairs and I actually get you in my bed." I shook my head. "I can't." "I know, you can't tonight. I just wanted to let you know that this changes nothing. I still want you, so don't go home and lay awake all night recounting every minute that we spent together today looking for the one thing that you did that might have turned me off. Only one of us needs to do that."
Kenrya: I rolled my eyes. "You did nothing wrong." "You mean except come in your mouth after you sucked my dick for three minutes?" "Was it only three minutes?" Atlas nodded and looked a little sheepish. "I glanced at the clock when you..." He rolled his eyes. "It was three minutes, maybe four, and now I'm humiliated. Excuse me while I tuck my flaccid dick back in my pants." "Atlas," I reached for his hand and laced my fingers into his. "It doesn't really matter how long you lasted, especially since I can still feel you so big and hard in the back of my throat." "Jesus, Sonja," he said for the third time this evening. He brought our joined hands to his mouth where he grazed his lips across my knuckles. The look he gave me made me squirm in my seat again. Maybe all of this dirty talk wasn't so silly.
Erica: Welcome back. That was an excerpt from “A Taste of Her Own Medicine,” by Tasha Harrison. So Killa, as I said, this touches very close to home.
Kenrya: Oh divorced bitches.
Erica: I know, okay before we jump into that let's get to the situation at hand. When this nigga said, "A guy that makes you abandon your responsibilities and make love all night"—bitch. It flashed back to those times where you meet a guy and everything is sweet and you're all going to have a night of fun and then two days later you emerge from his house like, "Oh shit."
Kenrya: The sun's so bright.
Erica: Exactly, your girlfriend's like, "Bitch, where you been?" That line touched a nerve in my little whore spirit. I was like, "Oh I remember that." We had a moment of appreciation for our good friend dry humping.
Kenrya: Was it dry humping?
Erica: Yeah I think it was. We said people gave up on dry humping.
Kenrya: Oh yeah before, and oh first season.
Erica: Yeah bitch, you was there.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah, yeah with the woman who was with the older man.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: So bitch, our good friend a hand job. Here's the deal, my hand jobs suck.
Kenrya: Yeah I'm not great.
Erica: I feel like my hand jobs suck, but I feel like her hand job was really great. But I think that she probably thought about it and was like this wasn't a good hand job.
Kenrya: She didn't stay with the hands for long though.
Kenrya: She popped her mouth on down there right quick.
Erica: Yes, but one he was-
Kenrya: Which was also my experience.
Erica: Yeah exactly, you never do a hand job to completion, right?
Kenrya: Right. Well I'm sure people do. I don't think I have, but that's because I don't feel like it's so good. I have been told that I'm good at it.
Kenrya: But it don't seem like it.
Erica: But it don't feel like it, it don't feel right.
Kenrya: Yeah, I think the problem is that you really got to use lube. Spit is not enough because it's just on your hands and it's not continuously coming like when it's in your mouth.
Erica: What? Continuously coming.
Kenrya: What she said.
Erica: Yeah, so I appreciated... The whole scene reeked of divorceness because don't you remember when you first start dating post-divorce it is a lot like... For me it was a lot like dating when you're first dating. You got to be home at a certain hour, curfew because you got to go relieve the sitter. Or you're all sitting out in the driveway, the next thing you know you're giving a hand job and head in the car.
Kenrya: That is a thing that has happened.
Kenrya: Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it that way.
Erica: It definitely is return, it returns back to oh, we're doing this shit all over again. Nine times out of 10 if you're anything like me or Killa, you had a momma. My momma was Kenrya, after me, "Who you going out with? Tell me whereabouts. Drop a pin for your location." This book itself... Oh shit, we didn't give the background story of the book.
Kenrya: Oh what the...
Erica: Oh damn, we jumped all into it.
Kenrya: That's okay.
Kenrya: We'll do that right quick. It stars Sonja and Atlas, who of course is aptly named because he has strong shoulders and he can bear the weight of the world on them.
Erica: Love me a shoulder.
Kenrya: I know, so Sonja has been divorced for about a year. She was married to this dude named Eric who we find out over time is a fucking asshole. She has two kids who are in high school and she has decided that she wants to start a business because she needs to support herself outside of the business that she worked on with her husband. She basically helped him build his business. The story starts with her going to an entrepreneurship class and her teacher is Atlas. When she meets him she loses her shit because he fine as hell.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yeah, and then it's clear that he also... From the very first moment they meet he's flirting with her and then it's all...
Erica: From the first moment.
Kenrya: Literally from the first moment, and then she wrestles with what it means to date as a divorced woman and as a mom.
Erica: Also she struggles a little bit with her age because she's a little bit older than him, right?
Kenrya: Yeah, she's 40 and he's 30 and she makes a huge deal out of it.
Erica: Huge deal out of it.
Kenrya: He's like, "I don't give a shit."
Kenrya: Yeah, but it's a big, big deal for her.
Erica: Okay, so that's how I got to the whole divorce and dating things. This nigga was wearing sweats.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: I love some sweats. Not only how they look but-
Kenrya: Because you can see everything.
Erica: They're easy access when you're doing nasty things. You can just slip a hand down there because there ain't nothing worse than having to have to lift his hips to unbutton some button down fly jeans.
Kenrya: Still, it's like their thot wear.
Erica: It is totally thot wear.
Erica: It's a Fashion Nova.
Kenrya: It is nothing-
Erica: Of men's clothing.
Kenrya: Well they have Fashion Nova shit too now.
Erica: I know but it don't be hitting like a pair of gray sweatpants do.
Kenrya: It's true. It leaves nothing to the imagination.
Erica: Nothing to the imagination. Okay, so back to this divorced and dating thing. Do you have anything to say, anything else?
Erica: Oh, I was going to ask if you had anything else to say about the sex itself. I love giving head, you love giving head, and this scene explains why good head is good head because it's not even I want to please you. It's like no, I need to have this in my mouth right now.
Kenrya: Yeah, it is and I think for folks who don't love it, that's the part that's missing is that they don't... For me it very much turns me on, that is foreplay for me.
Kenrya: It's a part of me getting ready, and it seemed like that was also a part of her getting ready.
Kenrya: Yeah, but then there's that other part that we've talked about on the show when she was like, "To see him lose himself, that abandon that comes with it." That's a huge part of it for me. I like the control aspect of all of that.
Kenrya: Tasha explained that really well.
Erica: Very well and it was so beautifully written. No, I need to taste this right now.
Kenrya: Right now.
Erica: And when he was saying I need to feel you on my body, I need to feel you touching me, oh man this man can talk some shit.
Erica: He definitely has the gift of gab and I am just...
Kenrya: Won her over to that. The reason that we started and ended the excerpt where we did is because it starts with him talking shit. She's like, "I ain't never really... I always thought that shit was silly." Then by the end she like, "Well maybe, maybe this works."
Erica: I think it's well known here that I like to talk. I like the sex talk. I think I could probably be a phone sex operator, I love a good talk. Yeah, it's corny if I'm talking to you right now, but in the moment bitch it is delightful.
Kenrya: Yeah, you out here charming niggas out their pants.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative), be like come on. Lift up them hips. Pull them panties down.
Kenrya: Men hate it when you call them panties. I like to do it just to make them angry.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: It's funny to me.
Erica: Take them panties off. Take them panties off. Okay, so we're talking about dating after divorce. Kenrya what was your dating situation like after divorce? Walk us through it.
Kenrya: Messy. I went straight from divorce into a pseudo relationship with an old flame.
Erica: I think a lot of people do that though because it's easy.
Kenrya: I mean in my... Well it was easy and also you know the situation, this guy was somebody who I'd dated before, who we went to school with, and there was always this... He was my what if guy.
Erica: Reunited and it feels so good.
Kenrya: It was we had both gotten married, we'd both gotten divorced, or I was in the process of it and it was like, "Well shit, let's try it. Now that we're both actually available let's try again." Shit got messy, a lot of stuff happened.
Erica: Dot, dot, dot.
Kenrya: And it ultimately did not work out, but I thank God for that because it brought me to a better place. Then after that I was by myself for... I didn't start even trying to date for a year and a half, I was really focused on my own shit. Then one day I was like, "Huh, okay."
Erica: Was it self-imposed or was this a-
Kenrya: Yeah, I was like, "I don't want to be bothered."
Erica: Nigga you had a fast.
Kenrya: Oh no before that.
Erica: Oh okay.
Kenrya: No, no that was before that.
Erica: Sorry, I'm trying to-
Kenrya: You're trying to prompt me.
Erica: Yeah I'm trying to get you to have a-
Kenrya: No, no there was a year of me not being interested in not dating. I think it was a year, and then I decided to go on the apps. Got my ass on Bumble, started dating, it was not great. Catfished by dudes who posted pictures 15 years younger than they were. All kinds of shit. Jack hammer dick, lots of-
Erica: When was the fast?
Kenrya: I'm getting to the fast.
Erica: I think the fast was before that though.
Kenrya: It was not, no it was not.
Erica: Okay, sorry. Sorry you all, I'm really lonesome like girl. Okay, yeah.
Kenrya: I had a few months of Bumble dating that were not great, and then I went on a date with a guy and had a panic attack. Not on a date, but I got home... You don't remember this?
Kenrya: This was the nigga who we went out to eat and the roach was crawling on the table at the Senegalese spot.
Erica: Yeah mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: He brushed it off and kept eating and I was like, "Nigga you eating with your hands. What is happening?" Anyway, so went on a date with that dude, got home, it was a day off so we had done a lunch date and I said, "Oh, this will be cool. Do a little lunch date, come home, lay on my couch for the rest of the day." I had a fucking panic attack. That was what got me back into therapy. Actually that day I remember I called you and was like, "What's your therapist's name? I need some help." I realized later that it was the date that had sent me there. I found out later that I had PTSD from relationships with men and all of this stuff. One of the very first things that she made me do when I started therapy was go on a men fast.
Erica: The fast.
Kenrya: Exactly, I finally got there.
Kenrya: It was supposed to originally be for 30 days. Remember I had a date scheduled with somebody and she was like, "Well you can go on that date but you need to tell him on that date that you can't talk to him for a month." I wasn't allowed to flirt, to sext, to do anything really with any man because I date men. A month turned into three months.
Erica: Yeah as I say.
Kenrya: Which turned into six months, and then so at the end of the six months, after a whole bunch of work she said that I was ready and sober around the shit that made dating not great. Then I started. I got back on the apps and started dating again and it was a lot better because I was making way better choices. I didn't give niggas chances, honestly, is what it came down to. I had a set of criteria and really strong boundaries that I had built that allowed me to be able to better... It gave me a better picker basically.
Erica: Were you dating for relationships or dating for fun?
Kenrya: I was dating for relationship. I knew that I was ready after being done all of that work that I wanted to find someone that I actually wanted to build with. Yeah, so I was out there looking purposefully for somebody who I could see myself with.
Erica: So we're here, this is called The Turn On. We talk about sex. We talk about the sex during this time.
Kenrya: There wasn't a lot of sex during that time because most... I was breaking it down to my partner. We were talking about how dating was as a woman on the apps. Let's say I talked to 10, I matched with 10 people. Maybe of those 10, maybe four of them would make it off the app to a phone call. Then of those four maybe two of them would make it to a date, and then I would go on a couple of dates with one of them. One of them would make it past the first date and then I'd go on several dates with another one and then we would end up fucking. Then either it would work out or it wouldn't. Wasn't a ton of sex, it's a funnel, a narrowing down of people before I got to the ones.
Kenrya: I didn't mean I waited a long time to have sex with the ones who made it through, but the quality was not there. Because I was dating with a purpose in terms of actually trying to find somebody who I actually liked beyond just fucking, hey dog, there wasn't a whole lot of sex, not that second time around. Yeah, what about you?
Erica: What about the first time around?
Kenrya: There was some bad sex and there was a couple instances of great sex and one nigga who... That was the second time around, who I've talked about before. I feel like he was probably really into domination but wasn't honest about it and up front about it, and so I felt that he was trying to hurt me in the course of having sex without us having had a conversation about it, which made things not cool.
Erica: Yeah, but even the dominant guys that I've dealt with it wasn't a... I've dealt with dominant men, not sadists.
Kenrya: Right and I think he was ultimately a sadist.
Erica: A sadist yeah.
Kenrya: Which is fine, but talk to me about it.
Erica: I don't mind a dominant man, I don't want a sadist yeah.
Kenrya: Right, but when I called him out on it that's when he ghosted me. But that's cool.
Erica: How was sex the first time with someone other than your husband?
Kenrya: Sorry, my eyes closed. It was amazing. It was so good because it was the what if guy, so we hadn't had sex in years before then so it was all this pent up energy, and because we'd had sex before, we both knew each other's bodies already. I still remembered what worked and he still remembered what worked too. It was fucking fantastic.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: All right, all right.
Kenrya: Tell us about your post-divorce situation.
Erica: Post-divorce I initially, well throughout my separation I reunited with an old flame. It was good, we had a good long weekend. We literally locked ourselves in a hotel room for a weekend and had some good nasty sex. That was great. Then once I actually said, "I want a divorce," I think I filed, no after I said, "I want a divorce," my therapist put me on a fast and mine was 60 days. Was it 60 or 90?
Kenrya: I think it was 90.
Erica: It was 90 days.
Kenrya: But it got longer because you ended up coming off after... Oh it just started way after mine.
Erica: Uh-uh, yeah.
Kenrya: But you finished after I did.
Erica: It was a 90-day fast and I literally would... I flirt like I talk.
Kenrya: With everybody.
Erica: I flirt with everybody. I be on the phone with the Verizon tech and I'm flirting. It was really difficult, but it was good. It was good to clear my mind and my brain of boys. Sometimes I get boy crazy, and so it was good to not have that as something I'm thinking about as I'm trying to figure myself out. Once it was time to come off the fast, I definitely was planning a grand opening party, a remodeled and come in, take a look. First five people in with a coupon get in free kind of thing, but it didn't quite happen like that. It was like eh, okay this is... I can do it and I haven't found anybody to do it with.
Kenrya: We put you on Bumble.
Erica: No, uh-uh.
Kenrya: Yes we did.
Erica: That wasn't until December. I came off fasting August.
Kenrya: Oh right, it was January 1st.
Erica: Yeah, so I came off the fast and one of my girlfriends who always knows somebody who knows somebody introduced me to this guy that was traveling a lot and old man, served great dick, it was great. I traveled, meet him in a city, we have a good long weekend of nasty fucking and then we go on about our business. It was fun. I kept that situation up for a minute. Generally I was kind of... I knew that I didn't want to jump into a relationship, I was ready to-
Kenrya: I forgot about him.
Erica: Have some good sex. He still be-
Kenrya: Does he?
Erica: Niggas like to test-
Kenrya: Keep it open.
Erica: Keep the lines open. It's like in the winter when they tell you to keep a drain running so the pipes don't freeze?
Kenrya: Don't freeze.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative), he let it keep that drain open so the pipes don't freeze and that's fine. That's fine because I do the same thing. I definitely have my every three months. "Hey big head. Hey stranger," text that go out. It's whatever. After that I pretty much stuck around on that. For me dating had changed so much between the time that I was... Before I started dating and after I started dating.
Erica: Dating and courtship had really changed.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: It was different and I had to wrap my mind around it. It took a lot for me to even want to put a profile up because you're like-
Kenrya: Yeah, because we didn't have that before we got married. People weren't-
Erica: People were but it wasn't like ads or anything, it was literally Yahoo dating.
Kenrya: Or Match and... Right.
Erica: It was go to the computer.
Kenrya: They didn't have these apps.
Erica: It was very, very different and so I think everyone was looking for... There was the illusion of we're looking for partners in life and it was now he's trying to fuck.
Kenrya: I was going to say these apps lend themselves more to sex.
Erica: Yeah, which whatever.
Kenrya: It's fine.
Erica: Right after Christmas I told myself that I'll be ready to get on the apps. New Year's Day I came to Killa's house and we setup my profile.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), I'm very good at writing Bumble profiles.
Erica: Yeah, she is. Yeah, she setup my profile and I got on Bumble. That was the only thing I really was on. Matched with a few people, Kenrya gave me all the tips and tricks. I knew what to do well before. I didn't have to do the trial and error because Killa did it all for me. I did that, I met a few people. I met one guy who we would have been... Actually we're still really good friends, it just did not work because we had fundamentally very different views about life.
Kenrya: Some things.
Erica: Raising and children and all that. Also, I don't know if I want more kids, and so it's hard to... Well first the goal of it initially was to be fucking, but then I actually started liking the dude and I was like, "Oh this is a danger," so then I started... I went about it backwards because I was fucking him and I was like, "This is a good fuck buddy," but then I started catching feelings. I was like, "Oh wait," when I should have vetting for that before I started fucking him.
Kenrya: That way if things changed you would already know.
Erica: Then I'm still good.
Erica: Yeah, it was one of those ooh, this ain't going to work. I don't see this working down the line. We had to part ways. Yeah, so I've done the app stuff. I meet people. I mean again, I'm a big flirt so I meet people just in organic situations. Went on vacation, met somebody.
Kenrya: That was random.
Erica: Yeah, very random but it worked.
Erica: Yeah, so now I'm still dating. I mean I will have a week-long period where I'm like, "Oh, let me get back on this app." I'll get on the app and then be like, "Well there was a reason you haven't opened this app in three months."
Kenrya: Digging through the trash, digging through the trash.
Erica: I was digging through the trash for a hamburger that was easy to eat. I recently got back... Yeah recently got on the app and met somebody that's cool and that kind of thing, and I'm still not quite ready for a relationship I don't think. However, when I do look at fuck buddies I try to think of if they would... If I were to catch feelings is there anything barring, fucking up the situation from this being something? No I'm not going to have a fuck buddy that ain't doing shit with his life because if that dick's good and we got a good conversation and I'll be like-
Kenrya: Oh, I think I love he.
Erica: Exactly, so I try to avoid that kind of situation. Yeah, I don't think I'm quite ready for a relationship yet. I think it's primarily because I'm still trying to figure myself out. I mean I know what I want, I think I know what I want. I got a lot going on y'all. I guess I'll share with everybody now. Back in December I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Yeah.
Kenrya: That's a lot.
Erica: There's a lot happening.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Wow, and I think I might actually cry and I haven't cried about this since I was diagnosed. I have surgery next week, so yeah that makes dating really weird. I mean not that it makes it weird because actually one thing I've learned is niggas don't give a shit about that.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:36:08].
Erica: This one nigga was like, "They ain't sewing up your pussy are they? They ain't doing a mastectomy of your ass." I'm like-
Kenrya: Oh God.
Erica: Gee thanks, niggas ain't shit. But at the same time you're about to undergo a very long process. Most of the guys that I'm dating, even the guy that I literally met two weeks ago is like, "You cool, I'm cool, let's see what happens." I'm lucky in that extent.
Kenrya: Yeah, nobody's like, "Holla at you later."
Erica: Yeah, and if you are cool.
Kenrya: Bye, yeah.
Erica: I completely understand it, but I think with all of that that's going on it's difficult for me to focus on building a relationship.
Kenrya: Yeah, that takes a lot of energy.
Erica: Yeah, so I mean I have people that I'm dating and maybe if they stick around that'll show... Maybe something will be revealed in the healing process and there. Maybe there's some grand gesture that I'm like, "I can't be without you." Yeah, so I don't think I'm quite ready for a man because right now I need to be my own partner and I need to be... From what I understand treatment and recovery is going to require an inordinate amount of selfishness on my part. It would be wrong to drag somebody brand new into this because it's going to be all about me. One of the things that's very difficult for me to accept right now is receiving the outpourings of help and love from everyone. I mean I know people love me, yada, yada, yada, but it's been very difficult having people... I literally had a girlfriend text and say, "Hey, I'll come over and help with laundry." I'm like, "Bitch, no." I think it's a wrong foot to start out on in a relationship for it to be all about me. I don't think that I'm going to be able to-
Kenrya: You also can't force people to do things, so it's not as if let's say with this person who you just met, if it turns into something and he's here just as things are getting tough you're not forcing anybody to do any fucking thing.
Erica: Yeah, but I just-
Kenrya: This nigga's got free will just like you do.
Erica: Yeah, I feel like relationships are supposed to be reciprocal. It's not a-
Kenrya: Whoa see we talked about equity versus reciprocity.
Erica: Yeah exactly, but I think... You're right, equitable and I don't think that there's any way that I can be an equitable... Well I guess I could if-
Kenrya: Ebbs and flows, boo, ebbs and flows.
Erica: Yeah, I just feel like going into this I have to make it all about Erica.
Kenrya: As you should, and either somebody deals with that or they don't, but you can't force them to do it.
Erica: Okay bitch. Fuck, anyway so-
Kenrya: You know me I'm like fuck that.
Erica: Yeah, so that's where I am with the dating thing. I'm still having really great sex. These titties have been on a world tour. Lord they have been on a world tour.
Kenrya: They deserve.
Erica: They deserve as do I deserve. Yeah, so it's been an interesting ride post-divorce. I think that I'm a very different dater now, and I mean what helps-
Kenrya: What makes you different?
Erica: My picker's better. I am comfortable saying what I want and what I don't want out of a relationship. I feel like once you've been, at least for me, I know what it feels like to be stuck in a relationship, well feel like you're stuck in a relationship where you're stuck and you're trying to live and be somebody you're not.
Kenrya: Who you aren't.
Erica: Who you aren't, and so I am going into all relationships with an ignorant level of transparency. I mean I don't tell everything on a first date, but I'm very clear about who I am and what I want and what I expect. If it's too much, if it scares you off, if it feels like it's too much of a problem-
Kenrya: Speak now.
Erica: That's fine because I'm not going to change or shrink or hide who I am and what I want for the sake of being with somebody because that shit is hard as fuck to maintain.
Kenrya: It's exhausting, and for what?
Kenrya: So you can look up and not who the fuck you are?
Erica: Yeah, and I never understood the whole I can do bad by myself until I truly was like, "No, I can do this shit on my own." I'd rather struggle and be by myself and come home to peace.
Erica: Come home to peace. Wasn't my word last year peace and prosperity?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Yeah, my word last year... Each year I pick a word, a few words for the theme of the year. Last year was peace and prosperity. I definitely found peace. Even thinking about all that happened. I think I told you this before. All that happened last year, I lost my granny who was my favorite girl in the whole wide world.
Kenrya: She was dope.
Erica: Yeah, I got fucking diagnosed with breast cancer. But 2019 was one of the best years of my life because I found peace, so even in the midst of all of this bullshit I found peace. I'm peaceful, I'm happy, I fucking launched my podcast, I have a better idea of who I want to be and what I want my empire to look like. Yeah, I don't have anybody and I'm fine with that. Maybe in 10, 15 years if I'm still like this that might change, but right now I have found peace and comfort in my own little situation, my own little setup. I don't want to add anybody to that that isn't enhancing it or making it easier. I know that relationships can be difficult, but I think the difficult part should be the logistics part of it. Logistics is probably the wrong word but the fitting two lives together, fitting two personalities together. We should genuinely like each other.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: We should genuinely want to spend our time together, that kind of thing. I think now that I'm better in my pillars, in the pillars of Erica and what she wants and who she is, now that that's more solid, the rest of it fills in the blanks and it works out. So yeah. You think you're different dating?
Kenrya: Oh fuck yeah. I was not healthy or sober when it came to dealing with men because my codependency was such that I put everyone before me. It meant that I put men before me, even ashy raggedy assed niggas that didn't deserve it. I was a let me take care of you, hoe. It's nothing wrong with taking care of the people who you care for, but not to the detriment of yourself. There was a whole lot of care taking and a whole lot of making myself small in order to make small men feel bigger. To the point where yeah, I didn't really know myself anymore.
Kenrya: I remember when I finally left and he would come talk at me to tell me why I should stay with him and I would literally look through this nigga and he went, "I don't even know you anymore." I'm like-
Erica: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: You didn't really know me to begin with. I am back to being myself. That has made me better post-that. I think one of the most important lessons that I learned and that made me better when it came to dating is the lesson that you can always leave.
Kenrya: Long before I left my ex-husband I wanted to leave. I had calls to leave, and I chose to stay because I thought that people deserved-
Erica: You thought you couldn't.
Kenrya: No, not even that. I had convinced myself that everybody deserves another chance and that may be true, but not on my back. But I didn't know that then.
Erica: I didn't say that I got to give you a second chance.
Erica: I wish you and your new girlfriend the best.
Kenrya: Exactly, but I stayed and then spent a whole bunch of time waiting for him to fuck up again so I could leave because I felt like I had made the choice to stay with a nigga who cheated on me.
Erica: Oh I didn't know that, but yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yeah, literally I'd be like, "Just let me catch you."
Erica: Let me catch you yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). It's like where is this rule coming from?
Kenrya: Right, some shit that I had imposed when I literally could have woke up one day and be like, "You know what? Fuck you and fuck this." When I got to the point where I realized I could always leave, that changed literally everything because not just in relationships, any kind of a bad situation. Even I have anxiety and going to new places fucks me up. We were just talking about this when I was going somewhere when we were out of town and I had to remind myself that if I didn't like it I could turn around and I could leave.
Kenrya: It had been so ingrained in me and I think in a lot of Black women that you have to try, you have to give somebody another chance, it's up to you to keep things going and make him happy and blah, blah the fuck blah. It made it easier when I started dating because if I didn't like some shit a nigga said on the phone I would get off, I would send him a text that says, "We're not a good fit. I wish you well." That's what I would always text niggas and then I would block them because I don't owe you an explanation and I would move on with my day and with the rest of my life. It made it so much easier for me to put myself out there because I realized I didn't have to stay anywhere I didn't want to be.
Erica: One of the things that I do, so my little codependent self, part of it is codependency but part of it is this is who I am. I'm a little old Black lady, I turn into a granny when my friends come over because I want to make sure they ate, I want to feed them, I want to cook for them. When I started dating one of the things, one of the rules I gave myself was no cooking for these niggas.
Erica: No cooking for them until they earn being cooked for. Did you have any rules like that?
Kenrya: I never let anybody in my house, that was a rule that my therapist and I actually set up rules for how to keep me sober with dating. People had to prove that they were worthy of coming to my home. I also did almost exclusively daytime dates because they had to prove that they were worthy of me getting a sitter and being away from my child.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: I would meet folks on my lunch break. That made it easier for me again that I can always leave, there's a set amount of time attached to something, I'm not letting anyone into my own space, they weren't in my vehicle, they weren't... Know where I lived. It made me feel safer in that way. In that respect I didn't cook for anybody. You know I like to bake for niggas and everybody, but they would have to earn the baking and all of that shit. Yeah, I think those are probably the biggest ones. Daytime was really important to me. I didn't want to give anybody the privilege of having my very precious nighttime hours. I think the only person who I went on a first date in the evening with is the person who is now my current partner.
Kenrya: That's it.
Erica: You didn't have a kid that weekend so it wasn't a-
Kenrya: I did not. It wasn't a me and hardship, it was literally we had been planning a date for the following week during the day and then her dad actually got her and I didn't have anything to do and I was like hey.
Erica: Yeah, let's meet up.
Kenrya: Then it went from there.
Erica: Yeah, that dating as a mom thing is a whole other beast.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: I'm really lucky because my ex and I have... We have a really decent schedule.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), you all do.
Erica: It allows me to have a lot of flexibility, and because I have such flexibility I try to not date on the days that I have him. I do break it occasionally for-
Kenrya: There's a concert of something has a specific.
Erica: Yeah, something like that, but I try to keep our time our time. Babysitters aren't cheap.
Erica: Then also you think about coming home and then having to parent post-date fucking sucks.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: It was like we'll do it on the weekend I don't have my kid.
Kenrya: Yeah, I would rather not.
Erica: Yeah, okay do you have any other old habits that... I mean we talked about the things we do, but are there any old habits that you had that you look back now and you're like, "Oh my God."
Kenrya: I do have a big one. I remember back when I was... I got married before most of our friends. I got married at 26. I was super young and married and had all these ideas about what it took in order to make some shit work that now I'm like, "Bitch, shut up." One of the things was that I would never say no if he wanted to have sex.
Erica: Oh I remember that conversation. I was like bitch, don't tell my husband.
Kenrya: It led to me doing a lot of shit I didn't really want to do.
Kenrya: And resenting.
Erica: Resenting him and resenting yourself.
Kenrya: Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Why the fuck am I here?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), and it still wasn't satisfying to him because he still ultimately-
Erica: It still wasn't enough.
Kenrya: Yeah, he still wanted to have more sex then we were having even though we were having it constantly and he was still cheating. That's always that reminder that cheating is not about you. Although I just always remind myself the nigga cheated on Beyoncé, so the nigga cheated on Beyoncé and she don't need anybody. I contorted myself in that way, and toward the end, maybe the last year that I was married I finally was like, "Fuck you. If I don't want to have sex I'm not having sex. It's not fun for me, it's not going to be fun for you because I'm not into it so no."
Erica: You know, we all hit that. We all hit a point.
Kenrya: A wall.
Erica: Looking back there's a moment in our marriage where it's over.
Kenrya: It's over before you know it's over.
Erica: Yeah, it's over before you know it's over and I remember my point was where I was like, "Okay, well you're going to live that way. I'm going to live this way."
Kenrya: I knew your shit was over a smooth year before.
Erica: Yeah, exactly. That was when I was like, "Okay, you do..." I was like this is how I'm going to feel comfortable being in this marriage for the rest of my life. You live your way, you do what you want to do, and then I'm going to live my way and do what I want to do and should we overlap from time to time.
Kenrya: Then bonus.
Erica: Then great. It's like how the fuck is that a marriage? A marriage, a forever partnership? Yeah, I definitely thought this was my way of reconciling this decision I made. I was going to say fucked up decision.
Kenrya: No, don't say that.
Erica: This decision I made that ended sourly.
Kenrya: Yeah, and so one of the things that has come up for me now, as a person in a really healthy relationship, is that I sometimes catch myself feeling like I need to have sex when I don't necessarily feel like it. Because I was so used to being with a man who literally I found was counting how many times we had sex, if I could tell we were going to have a bad day because he would ignore me in the morning... He was a narcissist, they are manipulative. But it would be because he felt like we hadn't had sex the night before and so he would pout and act like a child the next day.
Erica: You know that pouting shit, I cannot stand a passive aggressive person.
Kenrya: Yes, you know that's one of my biggest pet peeves in the world.
Erica: It's making my teeth itch. It makes my teeth itch. It's crazy because I was dating this guy and he was passive aggressive as fuck and would... I'm like, "Yo, is there a problem? We good?" "No we fine." Then he pissy-
Kenrya: Why you acting like a little pissy bitch?
Erica: Then I got to ask again like, "We good?" "Well I was really upset about..." You know what? We did that shit.
Kenrya: I can't read your mind.
Erica: We did that shit twice and I was pissed that we even got to it twice because I don't... We're adults. Let's be adults, let's be 100 about it. There shouldn't be anything that I do... I shouldn't do something and you be... If you can't fucking tell me, "Yo, you hurt my feelings or I'm feeling a certain kind of way," or "Hey it would have been nice if I got some head." You probably won't get any, but nonetheless-
Kenrya: Say something.
Erica: We should be able to say something to one another.
Kenrya: With your chest.
Erica: If we can't then why are we together?
Erica: You literally had your face in my booty hole, your whole tongue was in my booty hole, but you can't tell me you pissed about something? It was like, "You know what bro, I'm good. I'm good love, enjoy." Looking back I was pissed at myself that I even allowed it to get that far because I should have seen that pouty passive aggressive shit. I can't stand a pouty nigga.
Kenrya: We see the flags and we see them. I mean I think that that's one of the things for sure that I know that makes me a better dater now is that I see them flags and I don't just see them, I heed them. Because it used to be, after I was married then I could see them, but I would tuck them away and not do shit about them, or I might even say something but there was no intent. It was so he could talk me out of the flag. You know what I mean?
Kenrya: Now I'm like, "Nigga this is a problem. Either this changes or that changes or I go," kind of a deal.
Erica: Yeah, and it's not even on some angry shit.
Erica: If I tell you this is a problem and you're like, "No, but I really like this." Okay that's great and I wish you the best. Like the dude that I was talking about, we're great friends now. We talk regularly, we keep in touch, we do stuff together, but it's because look, you ain't for me, I ain't for you but we're cool so let's-
Kenrya: You're able to be honest about that.
Erica: Yeah, let's be honest about it. Yeah, I mean I definitely feel like when I first divorced I was on this I'm going to forever be the fast auntie, auntie Erica will never be married. Then I sat down with a group of women, most of which were on their second marriage and they were talking about how great it is because they were better at defining what they want and saying what they want and saying this isn't what I want. More in tune with themselves and they were saying how great their second marriage is and the people that they're married to are. I think because they did the work and I mean this was a small group of women. I know women on their third and fourth marriage, so obviously didn't catch. I think now I am more open to the idea of a second marriage but it's got to be damn near perfect. I mean I know perfection don't exist, I know that there's... It's work but there are certain things-
Kenrya: The conditions have to be right.
Erica: Yeah, the conditions have to be right.
Erica: On that note, I think that wraps us up.
Kenrya: Okay. Thank you all for joining us.
Erica: Thanks for joining us. This is Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions.
Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.