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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to therapist Chloé Cook about repeating the patterns of our parental relationships in our romantic relationships, setting boundaries with our partners' friends, and when it's time to go to sex therapy.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today, we're talking to Chloé Cook, pronouns she and her. Chloé provides couples and family therapy from an emotionally focused perspective that helps them improve communication skills, work through trust and infidelity issues, and build a healthy foundation and foster supportive partnerships. Chloé also helps folks in their relationships and address sex and intimacy issues including, orgasm difficulties, unmatched and low desire, performance anxiety, and sexual empathy. Chloé, thanks so much for coming back on the show.
Chloé: Thank you guys for having me again. It's a pleasure.
Erica: So the last time you were on the show, you told us about how you came to be a therapist, but-
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: We understand that you specialize in sex therapy. So how did you come to incorporate that in your practice?
Chloé: Well, actually because I specialize with couples, I noticed that every time I had clients that came in as a couple, that sex always ended up coming into the discussion when we were having our therapy session. So I thought to myself, "I need to get some more education on how to help couples, especially when it comes with a mismatched desire, and having sexual empathy in a relationship." When I say sexual empathy, I mean understanding the differences we have when it comes to sexual arousal.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yeah. Look at your face.
Erica: Honey, it's been so long. I got cobwebs up in this pussy.
Chloé: Oh, it's okay. It happens. It happens.
Kenrya: Okay. Sorry. Why do you think it's important to address that, particularly for Black people?
Chloé: Oh, well, particularly for Black people, there seems to be a stigma in our community at times, especially when it comes to Black women on what's okay sexually, what's acceptable sexually, what type of judgments we receive sexually. It's not so much that way in, I will specifically say white communities.
Chloé: We have stigmas against what women are supposed to do, what they're not supposed to do, and whether or not it makes them look slutty or a hoe or whatever you want to call it, whatever the names you hear out in our communities and the places where we socialize. But we have to get away from those things and learn how to be open and free with what makes us feel good. Because ultimately that's what sex is for; pleasure being shared between two or more partners.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I love it.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: So what's the hardest thing about that type of work?
Chloé: The hardest thing about it is when people are really uncomfortable talking about things that may be embarrassing in their sex life or what they deem to be embarrassing. But often we think something isn't embarrassing because we're not used to talking about it or thinking that we're different from other people.
Chloé: We often feel like sex is this taboo topic and what I'm experiencing someone else isn't experiencing. But the truth is we've all experienced different types of things that were sexually uncomfortable, things that we may have thought were weird that aroused us sexually, or felt embarrassed that something aroused us sexually, but it's actually a natural part of being a human being.
Kenrya: And there's nothing new under the sun.
Chloé: Nothing new under the sun.
Erica: Nothing new.
Chloé: I always tell my clients, because they'll have a look on their face of embarrassment or they'll grin or giggle. And I'll always say, "There is nothing you can tell me that I haven't heard before."
Erica: Yeah. And if I haven't heard it, I might try it.
Chloé: Yeah. And you know, what, if I haven't heard it before, I simply ask my clients, "Tell me what that word is." "Tell me what it means." So I can educate myself and I can Google or go look somewhere so I can learn about it even more just in case I have another client that mentions that same term, or maybe it's a term that I had another term for. Right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chloé: We all use different words for different behaviors and things that we do sexually. So I ask questions too, in my session.
Kenrya: Word. We asked you to come on the show this week, because last week we read a book called “Big Girl Pill.”
Kenrya: And it features two women who are fighting these massive internal struggles that really make it hard for them to connect with other people.
Kenrya: Which sounds like a situation that's ripe for therapy.
Kenrya: Although, neither of them go to therapy in this book, which is crazy, but anyway. So one of the main characters, Nina, she's in this battle with her very controlling mother and her very controlling fiancé. And it makes me wonder how and why do the patterns of our parenting relationships show up in our intimate relationships?
Chloé: Oh. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good question. So in the therapy world... I have to start with that. That is an awesome question. It tends to happen because it's almost as if our brains or our psyches are trying to get us to get another chance at correcting an unhealthy or dysfunctional relationship.
Chloé: So we subconsciously will choose partners that mimic the behaviors of our parents to get a do-over. So I didn't get what I needed or there may have been... How can I explain it? I don't even want to say abuse because I don't want it to sound too harsh, but some type of dysfunctionality that created a lack somewhere. So if I choose a partner that's similar, I can get a do-over and try this again and get what I need from that relationship.
Kenrya: But if you don't do anything to get yourself some tools, I would imagine you just end up repeating the same shit.
Chloé: You keep repeating the same thing. And that's why we tend to have a pattern of the type of people that we date. So recognizing that pattern is helpful because it takes some time to meet a different person over and over again. And that those, each individual partners that we end up dating get less and less like that parent or that family figure or a guardian or whoever it was that was in your relationship that you created some type of bond or connection with or needed a bonding or connection with.
Kenrya: Yeah, very loud. Very loud right now.
Erica: Yeah. Like...Get out my life.
Chloé: I've even seen it in my own life. It's something that we all have to pay attention to when we're dating and choosing to commit to partners. Recognizing that the traits that they have that mimics some of the things that we're used to seeing. And we're drawn to that because we're used to it and it feels comfortable and it feels normal, even if it's dysfunctional.
Kenrya: Because it's a dysfunction you know.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Erica: So why is it important to set boundaries with our families and the people that's closest to us and how can we... What steps can we take to define and maintain those boundaries?
Chloé: Well, it's important to set boundaries because as we grow as adults, we create this individuality separate from who our families are or who they were. And either we choose to... And I don't want to say choose because sometimes we don't have boundaries and not on purpose. It's just because we're not used to doing that.
Chloé: But if we don't have boundaries, we create a type of codependency that doesn't allow you to be individual from your family. So you end up bringing those same behaviors and same connections over into other parts of your life. And your other families that you're creating, whether they're friendships or romantic partnerships or family relationships that you have created with your partner. So creating a boundary is helpful in order for you to create individuality, have a sense of self, lack... Not lack, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to use that choice of wording, but to create a sense of self and not allow for possessiveness, controlling, unhealthy attachment to occur in your life.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. So Nina... So one of the main characters is Nina.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: She hates her partners' friend group.
Erica: But she's also hesitant to say anything. I've been there. You don't want to offend anyone. So how would you suggest someone saying something if they were in a similar situation?
Chloé: Saying something to their partner about the friend group?
Erica: Yeah. Like, "I hate your crew." "You got a whole bunch of fuck boy ass friends." "But I love you."
Kenrya: What boundaries can you set there, right?
Chloé: Well, as far as boundaries are concerned, if you know you can't change your partners' friends, you know that. That's up to your partner to decide whether or not those are good friendships or not. As far as boundaries are concerned, whether or not you have to deal with your partners friends, that's where you have to decide what's acceptable for you and what's not.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-
Chloé: So I'm okay with going somewhere with my partner if their friends are there in a group and I have the ability to leave when I need to. So setting boundaries regarding a physical space and having to be around the friend, I wouldn't get too much into the, "Why do you have those friends?" And remember, we don't want to use the word, why in any questions we ask our partners because it creates defensiveness.
Erica: You are so triggering, right now. Chloé-
Erica: I've heard that before from a wise woman.
Chloé: You cannot change your partners' friends. If there's a problem that you see that your partner doesn't see, word choice is very key here. "So I noticed that your friends, blah, blah, blah." If they don't notice it, and they don't think it's an issue, drop it, leave it alone. Because let me tell you, behaviors that create issues in your partner's lives, where it concerns their friends, will eventually start to bother them. And they'll remember that question you asked, or that statement you made about what you noticed.
Chloé: "So I noticed they try to hoard all your time." And this, this.. Whatever it is that you have noticed about your partner's friends that draw a red flag for you. Just make a general statement. It doesn't have to be like you're pointing the finger or anything, and let it go. If they don't notice it, move on.
Chloé: Not your friends. Remember, they're not your friends. You don't have to necessarily be around them.
Kenrya: What if he try to make you be around them?
Chloé: That's where you have to... That's where you have to have the boundary.
Erica: Because I feel like now, especially nowadays, everyone wants their friend groups to-
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Yeah. And it's like...
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And that's where the boundary has come into.
Chloé: And you have to let your partner understand that our friends don't have to merge, it's okay. Because guess what? We were individuals before we became a partnership and we're still individuals inside of this partnership.
Chloé: So you can have your set of friends and I can have my set of friends and the ones that do get along, yeah we can merge and do things here and there. But if that's not the case, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.
Kenrya: Right. So that's, Nina's issue. The other protagonist in the book is Maya.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: And she's having a tough time being vulnerable with her friends, with her family, with her love interest who is Nina.
Kenrya: And she's had some significant losses like family, both of her parents are gone. And then she has some relationship losses as well. And this is something that really resonated with me because I have only within the last couple of years of really intense work, gotten good or better at being able to be vulnerable.
Kenrya: What can people who have that issue, that concern do to help make themselves more comfortable with letting people in?
Chloé: Vulnerability is hard. Because you know what, it opens you up and I'm sure you noticed Kenrya. It opened you up to pain, to-
Kenrya: Yes, ma'am.
Chloé: Emotional pain. We don't want to bring physical pain into that because we shouldn't be experiencing physical pain that we don't want with our partner. [crosstalk 00:14:42] That we don't want. Right. In a sense it's always a [inaudible 00:14:47] right? But it opens us up to emotional pain, being hurt, being deceived, all of those things we don't want to happen in our relationship. So it's taking a risk and you really have to say to yourself that if I don't take a risk and open myself up, am I really opening myself up to being loved the way that I need to, the way that I want to?
Chloé: Remember when we put a wall up to keep something from harming us, we're also keeping a wall up and not- [crosstalk] Right. We're keeping stuff out. We're not allowing ourselves to be loved. And we're not allowing ourselves to share the love that we have to share with the people that we choose to be in our lives. So we got to use the boundary as a fence, not wall. So you can poke your finger and jump over it and go through whenever you need to and to allow other people to be able to do the same thing.
Kenrya: How does it negatively impact the people closest to us when we don't let them in?
Chloé: It creates intimacy issues. This is a big thing that I end up having to talk about with my clients all the time. There is a lack of intimacy in the relationship. And when I use the word intimacy, it's important for everybody to understand that there are different types of intimacy. We all think of sex when we hear the word intimacy, but being emotionally intimate with the people in our lives is what actually create the connection and bond with the people that we love.
Chloé: And if we're unable to share things about ourselves with them, the way we feel, the way something that has affected us through an experience, good or bad, we're not allowing them to see who we are and what makes us tick. What makes us feel good, what makes us feel bad. And that creates the intimacy issue.
Erica: Okay. So I'm going to just jump out of turn, but since we're on the topic and we talk about sex here. How does... Can you just dig a little deeper into how someone having trouble being vulnerable or setting healthy boundaries impacts a couple's sex life? And if you could talk about it from a, "I have no boundaries," way because I think we tend to talk about walls a lot. And I think that's very valid, but also talk about it from someone who just has no boundaries.
Chloé: No boundaries. So I'll go from the no boundaries side. When we don't allow ourselves to be vulnerable with and open ourselves and share with people, two things can happen. You can have that, no boundary situation or you create a wall. So we're on two opposite sides of the fence, right?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chloé: So when you are in the position where you don't have any boundaries, that's when you tend to see behaviors where you are having very short-lived sexual encounters with people. Or if you do have a partner, the sex seems shallow or on the surface. We're just satisfying a biological urge. I want to have sex, let's have sex. There's no deep feeling in the sex.
Chloé: People like that tend to not make eye contact. Don't want to be really, really close when having sex or... I know people love to have what we call doggy style but if that tends to be the go-to move all the time, what do you think happening there? That's the least amount of skin-to-skin contact you can have with a person when you're having heterosexual sex or same-sex because you're not face to face.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chloé: Transgender sex, same thing. This goes for a hetero and same-sex couples. You're not face to face. You're not having skin-to-skin contact with the majority of your body. Remember these types of things create the feel-good hormone in your brain, oxytocin. That creates bonds between two people. So when we don't have that, we don't get that bond and connection. So people that have vulnerability issues and don't feel like they can open up to others, they tend to have behaviors like this because they feel somewhat threatened or may have anxiety when they do the things that mimic closeness. Or that helps them to feel close. Or when they start talking about something, they want to change the subject or they don't want to... They dismiss it when it starts to get too intimate or too deep about how they feel or how they experienced something in life. So we don't want to... We don't want to dismiss the term going on a hoe stroll. I know y'all heard that before. Or going through your hoe phase.
Kenrya: Yeah. I definitely had a hoe phase or two in my life.
Chloé: Okay, so we don't want to confuse going through the hoe phase with the short-lived sexual experiences because that's a lifelong pattern. Okay?
Kenrya: So it's not about pathologizing a behavior that you're choosing for the time because it's what fits you, right?
Chloé: Bingo. There you go.
Kenrya: I've been in a lot of therapy.
Chloé: Right. That's why they call it a phase. Okay.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah.
Chloé: There's nothing wrong with choosing sexual empowerment, where you're wanting to get more experience and wanting to try new things out. No confusion with noticing a pattern that as soon as you start to get close to someone, you start to back up and now you're on to the next.
Chloé: And the next and the next and the next. Or even your only one night stands all the time, right? Because it's easy. It's fulfilling a need in the moment. Because there's still a need, even though you don't want to be vulnerable. You still have a need for closeness, which is where the sex is coming in.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Chloé: It's fulfilling that surface need of closeness without creating a place where you can be vulnerable or need to be vulnerable with someone.
Kenrya: I'm kind of... Well, I was going to say on the other end of the spectrum, but not exactly because these characters have their own intimacy issues too.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: But the couple at the center of this book starts out as friends.
Kenrya: And I'm wondering do people who you see... You see a lot of different couples. Generally are people who are friends for a long time before they get into relationships, do they have a stronger foundation or is it the opposite and they bring more baggage to the situation or is there no real pattern to it?
Chloé: Honestly, I have not seen a real pattern to it, but then again, I'm not doing research and taking numbers-
Chloé: And paying attention. But I don't notice a pattern. I've had couples that have been friends forever and decided that they were going to be together and get married and all this stuff. And they're fine. It's not the opposite where they have been friends forever, decide to get together and it's a disaster. Right. And then on the other side it's the same way. People who just met. They met online, they have the best relationship and they come to therapy just to make sure they're okay. "We just want to check in." "We're great but these little things we have arguments about." And then, yeah. Same thing on both sides.
Kenrya: Interesting. That's a thing? I'm not saying that with judgment. I just didn't know that people do that.
Chloé: What, come to therapy just to check in and have random-
Kenrya: Yeah. That's healthy?
Erica: That's healthy, right? Yeah.
Chloé: I always feel like those couples are a breath of fresh air because I wish more people would do that because-
Erica: He was like, none of these issues. "Shit, let me just deal with people that like each other."
Chloé: But it is, when I mean, it's a breath of fresh air to know that there are happy couples out there that want to make sure that if there is an issue that they can hit it early. That if they're noticing that they're getting into the same types of arguments all the time, but they are still in love and still having a great sex life, but they just want to figure out, "Well, how can we can't stop arguing about this one little thing?" People do that. And it makes me really feel that therapy is getting out there as a, "Hey, we don't just have to go to therapy because there's something wrong."
Chloé: Seriously wrong.
Kenrya: That's dope.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative). People do that. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Okay. So for the folks who may not necessarily be interested in going to therapy, but who have intimacy issues, who have trouble letting themselves be vulnerable or who have trouble setting and maintaining boundaries, are there any resources you recommend for them?
Chloé: Okay. So this is a difficult one. And as far as resources like books and things like that, I will say Brené Brown has a couple of books that people can look into. I don't know if any of you guys have ever-
Kenrya: I fucks with Brené. I interviewed her for Fast Company. Yeah, she was so dope. Yeah.
Chloé: Oh my gosh.
Kenrya: We talked for like an hour and a half and she sent me some copies of all of her books. I don't know. I do a lot of shit. They all-
Erica: Let me borrow one of your books.
Kenrya: No, because you ain't going to give them back. But you know where they are.
Chloé: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Kenrya: She's super dope.
Chloé: Anybody out there, Google Brené Brown and you could get any one of her books. She is awesome. Kenrya, I did not know that. That is-
Chloé: So amazing.
Kenrya: And you know what? She has a really great TED talk on vulnerability.
Chloé: That's the one that I was about to talk about.
Kenrya: Okay, my bad.
Chloé: Yeah. No. Look, I don't have specific details, but Google Brené Brown-
Kenrya: We'll add it to the show notes.
Chloé: TED Talk about vulnerability. It is amazing. I feel like really, that's where you go. Listen to her. Not only is she motivating, but she really makes you think about how yourself, the people that you have partnered up with in your past. But the reasons why you may have partnered with them in the past. It just makes you really, really think and gain some perspective on how we choose partners and even think deeply about our selves that we may have been wondering why we do certain things. She is amazing.
Chloé: Now here's a controversial thing about people who are not very good at vulnerability and have a pattern of hopping. Hopping around from person to person. So there's a theory out there with emotionally focused therapy that in order to balance out in secure attachment, which is what people usually have when they have a problem with vulnerability is that we tend to seek out secure attachments.
Erica: Wait, say that one more time.
Erica: Ooh, I feel real attacked. Say it one more time-
Kenrya: I just connected some dots, I'm sorry. Every time, Chloé, every time.
Chloé: A lot of times... Remember I told y'all our brains are... Do a very, very good job sometimes. Too good of a job, helping us to survive in this world.
Chloé: Or subconsciously, we tend to seek out people who are very used to being vulnerable and open. And they're, "Here, come to me." "I can help you." You tend to seek out those types of people. Now the controversial side of that is non vulnerable people end up hurting those people. Okay. And those people tend to have patterns seeking out partnerships with people that have a hard time being vulnerable. And so even though I feel like they're necessary for learning and growth, we have to be careful in choosing and understanding why we choose the people we choose in order to break the cycle of continuously hurting people in our partnerships. And when I'm saying continuously hurting, I mean, it becomes purposeful when you know and understand what's going on, if that makes sense.
Erica: Okay girl.
Kenrya: Look at your face.
Chloé: Oh, right. [crosstalk 00:27:53] And let me expand a little bit on that. So I know what's going on with me. I know I have a hard time with vulnerability. It's hard for me to open up with people. It's hard for me to be intimate, but I'm still going to choose to get into this serious committed relationship.
Erica: No, I... All right, girl.
Kenrya: It's interesting.
Erica: But I'm better. You know what, I'm better now. I feel really attacked. Therapy.
Erica: I recognized those... I recognize that I did do that, but I feel really attacked because I'm like, "You ain't got to put my business out there."
Kenrya: On my own show.
Erica: Damn, it be your own people.
Kenrya: But this is interesting. [crosstalk 00:28:36] That's right.
Kenrya: Yeah. But see, for me, I think it has manifested and that I've chosen people who were also unable to be vulnerable. So then we could just not be vulnerable together.
Erica: Two little rocks sitting in a room not talking.
Chloé: I'm curious how that works. I'm curious in how those relationships ended up.
Kenrya: Not great.
Chloé: All I picture is you sitting on one side of the room and somebody else on the other side of the room looking at each other, like...
Kenrya: And then... Yes. Sometimes... And sometimes it looked like a narcissist in sheep clothing who was able to take advantage of that.
Chloé: Oh, okay.
Kenrya: Things are funny. Yeah.
Chloé: Okay. I get that. So I know she's not going to say anything. So I'm going to roll like this.
Chloé: Yeah. I get it. I get it.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's my life. Not anymore though.
Erica: You know what Chloé, the thing is I don't... I love you and I love when we have you on the show, but then it be like-
Chloé: Aw, thank you guys.
Erica: Yeah, you be dragging the fuck out of us. Okay.
Chloé: What? If that's all... Relationships are all about learning our skills and what makes us feel good in relationships, what makes us feel bad. And the more we know about ourselves, the better off we are when we do choose to be committed in a relationship with someone.
Chloé: Yeah. But we have to do it in order... We have to do it so we can learn and grow and experience. We can't just sit around by ourselves, not having any companionship. Otherwise, we don't learn and we don't grow.
Erica: Okay. So we had an episode a few weeks back where we asked one another, what's bringing us joy in this dumpster fire ass world that we in?
Chloé: Oh, that we are in right now.
Erica: So I'm going to ask you, Chloé, what brings you joy?
Chloé: Oh, I'm sure you guys-
Kenrya: Can't help yourself.
Erica: I'm sorry.
Chloé: It's okay. I'm sure you guys know what brings me joy.
Chloé: I don't would think I have to bring it up, but I have to for the people that are listening. So waking up every morning and seeing the smile on my son's face for those that don't know, he's 13 months old now. And he wakes up with a smile every morning.
Chloé: So even though this world is the way it is right now, it brings so much joy to see his smile and hear him laugh. And to see his father, see him smiling and laughing because that to me shows me that no matter what's going on outside of here, outside of us, that we can forget about it in that moment and all smile with each other.
Kenrya: That's beautiful. That brings me joy.
Erica: Black love.
Chloé: It feels good y'all. It feels good.
Erica: That is so great. Okay, so few quick, rapid... Quick, rapid. Few rapid fire questions.
Erica: Finish this sentence.
Chloé: Oh gosh, here we go.
Erica: I love it when, blank.
Chloé: I'm laughing y'all. I love it when my husband rubs my butt.
Erica: Bitch! If I could Door Dash a nigga to come and rub on my booty.
Chloé: [inaudible 00:32:23].
Kenrya: Booty rub.
Chloé: That's what I fall asleep to a lot of the time. [inaudible 00:32:29].
Erica: Okay. You braggers, again. Right now my situation is...
Chloé: You can Door Dash a booty rubber in. Oh, but it's a pandemic.
Erica: Yeah. Because yeah, I could... Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Next one. A perfect day begins with...
Chloé: Waking up late.
Erica: I love it. Okay. My most used emoji is...
Chloé: The straight face. You know the one with the-
Chloé: The straight mouth... The straight mouth with the eyes, no expression.
Erica: Uh-huh (affirmative). What's yours Kenrya?
Kenrya: I'm looking. I'm trying to see. I think it's probably... So my top two are kissy face and tilted to the side, crying, laughing. That's about right.
Chloé: Okay, wait.
Chloé: Now I got to look at my cellphone and see which one comes up first.
Erica: So my most used are the one where it's like the guy that's like... His face is crying. [crosstalk 00:33:38] That one and the new one that they dropped with the jagged smile. Where he's like...
Kenrya: And his face is kind of red.
Chloé: I just looked at my most used and it's the woman with the hand on the face.
Kenrya: She's a woman of our time.
Chloé: And the crying laughing one. Those are my... And the straight face was number three. So that one actually wasn't my most used one.
Kenrya: Ain't that-
Chloé: It's the one with the hand in the face.
Kenrya: It's relevant.
Erica: Final one.
Erica: I am a...
Chloé: [inaudible 00:34:17] Hard! Oh my gosh. I am a... Ooh. How could y'all do that to me Okay. So you know what?
Chloé: The first thing that really pops in my mind is, believe it or not, I am an empowered woman.
Chloé: I've been on this, come on y'all, woman empowerment thing lately because I've been having a lot of women talking to me about coming out of possessive and controlling relationships. Feeling like they were stifled and didn't have a voice. And I've been seeing these women throughout this pandemic. Finding a voice for themselves. And I just been on that, [inaudible 00:35:09].
Chloé: I've been cheerleading. And through that, it makes me feel empowered because I love to see women becoming who they know they are supposed to be in this moment.
Chloé: [inaudible 00:35:23].
Kenrya: Have you seen the pandemic kind of bringing that out in folks? Having...
Kenrya: Making them reconsider their situations?
Chloé: Oh my gosh. Yes. Whether it is platonic friendships, relationships, work relationships regarding their career paths. This pandemic, as bad as it has been for a lot of people and how it affected a lot of people, has actually made people more aware of what's going on in their lives that is not serving them.
Chloé: It's not serving me, I need to do something about it. And this is the time to do it, it seems like.
Erica: You know, it's crazy. I have talked to... I feel like I've been the most creative during this pandemic. I've talked to so many people that have sprouted. I do think it's, I don't want to say it. You know, I don't think this is a time... I feel like people are coming up with really great ideas that are going to make them some money. You know?
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And not to make it all about a dollar, but even... We're probably about to face a really bad recession. World is again a dumpster fire but I feel like there are these really bright pockets of people finding themselves, realizing that this shit can go in a minute. So I might as well enjoy it while it's here. It's been interesting because you have so much pain and suffering and death and job losses and all of that. But on the other hand, there is a real... This is a crucible. Weird, shit's changing and I am excited about it.
Chloé: It really is and you can either let it get you down or do some things that are going to make you feel good about yourself, feel good about your community and your family.
Chloé: We have that choice. You just have to do it.
Chloé: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Awesome. Well-
Kenrya: For those of you who love Chloé as much as we do and would like to find out more information about her, you can head over to magnoliamhealth.com and tell her how dope she is.
Chloé: Aw, thank you.
Erica: And book her for a session if you are dealing with some issues for yourself, or as a couple. You can tell that Chloé is culturally competent, but-
Erica: But she knows her shit.
Erica: So, yeah.
Chloé: Yeah. And if anyone sends me an email and lets me know that they listen to your podcasts, they will get a discount.
Erica: Ooh. Yes.
Kenrya: They get a what, what she say?
Kenrya: Oh, aye! Aye!
Chloé: Yeah. But you have to mention that you heard about me on the podcast.
Erica: On The Turn On
Kenrya: That's awesome-
Erica: That's right.
Kenrya: And we'll put the link in the show notes to you as well. Yo, thank you so much for joining us again.
Chloé: Thank you guys for having me. It really is. You guys know I love talking to you all the time.
Kenrya: You're the best. Great. That's going to do it for this week's episode of The Turn On. Thank y'all for listening. We'll be back next week.
Kenrya: This episode of The Turn On was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica. And edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app. Then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Just post your review and email a screenshot to TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and you'll access lots of goodies, including The Turn On Book Club and two for one raffle entries. And don't forget to send us your book recommendations in sex and related questions and follow us over on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you soon. Bye.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.