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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to writer Vanesa Evers about rewriting history, overcoming unbearable whiteness in professional spaces and using poetry to inspire sexual liberation.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today we're talking to Vanesa Evers, pronouns she, they and them. Vanesa is a librarian and artist whose work confronts and translates Bible scriptures and other historical texts. Vanesa debuted their first play, a performance of the “Declaration of Independence: A Translation,” in 2018 in Philly. Vanesa hopes to feature their first visual creative project soon.
Kenrya: Hey, Vanesa.
Kenrya: Thanks for coming on.
Vanesa: Thank you guys for having me.
Kenrya: Of course.
Erica: We're really hyped to have you today. Again, thank you so much for joining us. I'd like to start with the question what did little Vanesa want to do when she grew up? When they grew up.
Vanesa: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good question. I am a military brat, an Army brat, so we moved about every three years to a new place. I liked to recreate myself every place, every new city or state I went to. I just liked talking and I liked writing and I had three siblings, have three siblings, and I just really liked to be by myself sometimes and read. I think I'm doing the things that I was doing and I knew I was going to be doing, reading and writing, and talking to people.
Kenrya: Like us.
Erica: Yay. Where do you consider home?
Vanesa: Wow. Georgia.
Vanesa: Yeah. My dad retired in Georgia and I went to high school for two years in Ohio and two years in Georgia.
Erica: What part of Ohio?
Vanesa: Tiffin, Ohio. Toledo.
Erica: Okay. [crosstalk 00:02:09].
Vanesa: Yeah. About an hour from Toledo.
Kenrya: I'm from Cleveland.
Vanesa: Okay. Yeah. My stepdad is from Cleveland but my parents are from Fostoria and Toledo.
Kenrya: I know one other person from Toledo and I think I have been there exactly once. It was for an NAACP conference when I was in high school. I think that's it.
Erica: Okay. How did you come to your current work?
Vanesa: Well, I wrote a lot. In the eighth grade I had a piece published in the newspaper and I was one of the only three Black families in Tiffin and it was about racism. I had a lot of really horrible things happen when I was living in Ohio actually. That's why I consider Georgia to be home because that's where I was like, "Oh, I'm a Black woman" like when I got to Georgia.
Vanesa: Yeah. I really started doing a lot of writing then. Sorry. Can you repeat that part again?
Erica: I was asking how did you come to do what you're doing.
Vanesa: Yeah. Writing. Writing. I think I really started to feel like I have to write, this is in me, and it's really important for me to write.
Erica: Okay. Pretty cool.
Kenrya: It says in your bio that your work confronts and translates Bible scriptures and other historical texts. Can you tell us a bit about what that looks like?
Vanesa: Yeah. I have an MFA from Sarah Lawrence and when I was writing my thesis I really started realizing that I was having some conflict whenever I was reading the Bible. Born in a Christian household, raised in a Christian household so the Bible, church ... I was in church probably every day of the week. Choir, praise...all of the things.
Vanesa: I really started to think about the Bible differently when I got to my grad program and started to look at the Bible kind of separating out the religious pieces from the Bible and looking at the stories and what was happening to the women in the Bible. From that, I started to translate Genesis and from there I also started to translate different legal texts like the Declaration of Independence. I was like, "Who was this written for?" And asking a lot of questions.
Vanesa: From that, I began to write a lot of poetry around translating these different types of writings and documents that we really don't engage with in that way.
Erica: That's really dope. We have talked about in a few other episodes about our conflict with the Bible. We were both raised in Christian homes and I think we both were saying we did a ... You know how they have the app? The Bible In A Year. You get through the Old Testament and you're like, "Shit. Dang."
Vanesa: Right. Right.
Erica: Yeah. It's good to see that you are doing the work and leaving something for us to read that reflects us in the things that we were raised in, which is hard.
Kenrya: We both were really looking for womanist texts that helps to translate the Bible so that we could get a translation that was through the eyes of a Black woman and having a lot of trouble coming across that.
Vanesa: Yeah. As I was reading it, and also as a Black woman, just as women and what's happening to women in the Bible and what's happening to their bodies, I ended up ... My mom maybe one day will read these poems but I really looked at the sexualization of women in the Bible and what's happening to the body. I really don't even use names like Eve and all that. I just look at the she in the Bible and see what's happening sexually. Rape, just the things that are happening to women in the Bible. That's actually a project that I'm going to be working on is continuing with those poems and seeing what can come of a mini collection or something.
Erica: That's really dope.
Vanesa: Thank you.
Erica: You're welcome. How does your work as a librarian work in concert with your art?
Vanesa: Yeah. I call myself a librarian. I just graduated with my...I went back to grad school because my MFA in poetry, I was able to do a couple of adjuncting gigs. It's really all I can call them. I was like, "I can't live like this." I had to go back to school. Also, I have a love of books and with information. I just graduated actually last year with my degree in librarian information [crosstalk 00:07:24].
Vanesa: Thank you. With my MLIS. My current position, I'm a program manager for a culture heritage program but I just consider myself to be a librarian because I lead people to information. I think now I just read a lot, listen.... During this last four months of quarantine and stay at home, I've been doing a lot of audiobooks and YA and so I just.... Librarianship, for me, just the information aspect of it is just bringing people to information.
Erica: I think it's really dope that you chose to get a degree in library sciences. Is that a really white space?
Vanesa: Yes. It is. That was when ... I went to Drexel University. It was all predominantly online. I also minored in museum leadership. All of my classes ...
Erica: You are great.
Vanesa: Thank you. All of my classes, and they were virtual, yes, but you saw the people's faces.
Kenrya: A white space is a white space whether it's virtual [crosstalk 00:08:35].
Vanesa: Right. You could feel it too in those spaces. Just the things, especially for libraries, public libraries, academic libraries. I mean, we are serving really diverse communities and just seeing some of the feedback from my classmates on what services we should be providing to public libraries. It's not just about books but it's about meals. What can we do to help support communities? Yeah. It wasn't just about learning for me but it also felt like I was doing a lot to teaching to my classmates. Just opening up their minds about the profession that they're about to enter. I've never even worked in a public library before but just know what different communities need.
Kenrya: That can be an exhausting lift, right? When you're the one that's in the space having to always bring up the issues to keep communities centered or work that is literally rooted in a community.
Vanesa: Right. Right.
Erica: Yeah. The DC public library their main headquarters downtown had this massive overhaul. They spent all this money on this beautiful building and there was a lot of talk around what do we do with the homeless population? Well, the unhoused population that spend a lot of time at the libraries. The conversations just run the gamut from this isn't their space, and I'm like how is it not?
Kenrya: Whose space is it?
Erica: Exactly. It has been interesting watching from afar so I can only imagine what it would feel like ... Also, some of these librarians show up because they have a sincere love for that but don't realize that they're also getting into a world of social services.
Vanesa: Right. Also made me think too, you're saying ... Like a lot of people in my classes knew that they were going to try to go directly to being the director of the library too. It wasn't even about servicing and being at the reference desk and the first face when you're greeting folks that come in. They just knew that they were going to be at a different level anyway. I think that also helped in leading their conversation around limiting people's access to certain things because they're already coming in knowing that they're about to be in these higher leadership roles.
Erica: Yeah. That's some white entitlement shit.
Erica: It's like I'm not going to [crosstalk 00:11:05].
Vanesa: Right. I mean, there's already studies out, 80% of librarians in leadership are white women then white males and then Black men and women. Then Asian, Latinx is just kind of 3% by the time you get out. Yeah.
Erica: Well, thank you for doing the work.
Vanesa: Yes. That's what I'm here for. Trying.
Kenrya: You are. We've never had the pleasure of having a playwright on our show I don't think. Can you tell us a bit about the show that you debuted in 2018?
Vanesa: Yes. Actually that was an error it's 2017 as I wrote that and then went back to my calendar. I was like, "Oh, right. That was 2017." It was actually 2017 in Philly. This was a piece, a long piece that I wrote. I was reading a lot of Thomas Jefferson's writings, the.
Kenrya: Fucking trash.
Kenrya: I hate that dude.
Vanesa: He rewrote the Bible so he has a Bible ... Yeah. Thomas Jefferson has a Bible. He was taking out different miracles. I was just reading his stuff. Not even like I was holding the Bible as like, "Oh my gosh. How dare he?" I also was like, "Oh, wow. He had the audacity to rewrite the Bible."
Kenrya: The fucking audacity.
Erica: Ain't got shit else.
Erica: [crosstalk 00:12:39].
Vanesa: Right. I was like, "Oh, I'm going to rewrite the Declaration of Independence." Okay.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:12:46].
Vanesa: It took me a really long time because of how I did it. I broke it down and looked at the history of the words that were being used. I created an erasure project first where I took all the words, typed them out, from start to end, looked at certain words to see, "I wonder if people know what this word means" and did an erasure and then inserted in other words for that. It was a performance piece and I performed it during my thesis reading but it was like a seven or eight minute reading. I think people were just looking at me. I was like, "Hmm. What's the best way for me to get this message across?"
Vanesa: I set it down. I was like, "Let me turn this into a script." When I moved to Philly and ... This is the place that that could be done.
Erica: I was going to say that's the perfect place. [crosstalk 00:13:41].
Vanesa: Right. I mean, the Liberty Bell, just the history also of different things in Philly. I was like this is where I can do it. I found two amazing Black women who agreed to be a part of my cast. I set it in the same period with the costumes, the setting, just everything was in that period all the way down to the quill pens. It was a performance poem, still, almost like [inaudible 00:14:10] as a performance, a chorial poem but just a performance. Definitely an experimentation. I just had them writing but reading what the actual declaration is and just having the audience there interacting in a way. At the end, they could ask questions.
Vanesa: Definitely an exploration. It wasn't like with an actual cast and here is your lines but it was just really the declaration. Then I had the Say Her Name of Black women, Black cis and trans women who lost their lives due to police brutality in the backdrop. Just really a conversation of hey, guys, this is what the declaration means, this is who it didn't mean, this is who we should be incorporating, and how can we create our own words and leadership around really recreating this time for us?
Vanesa: That was back in 2017. I'm still working on figuring out that project and just as an artist, you have this idea to begin and then it morphs into off the page and how can you incorporate community?
Erica: What drives you to write?
Vanesa: At first, I think it was like, "Oh, I can't go to bed unless I write this poem" but now I'm working even remotely and I'm like, "Aw, man. Let me write a couple of words and go to bed because I have to go to bed and wake up." I think now just still ... Especially I'm really into YA. I just read Echo Brown's “Black Girl Unlimited.” At the end of her book she was like, "I have to write" and as we know, all of the Black women that are writing and have passed and are still here with us, writing for other people. I'm like I have to keep writing because there could be somebody that is trying to do the same thing, needs help, is going through the same thing that I'm experiencing. I think maybe the writing has to be building the community and just letting people know that you're not alone.
Kenrya: Right. You mentioned something that always really sparks my interest. I've been working at home for the last 11 years.
Kenrya: Yeah. I'm kind of fascinated about what work looks like for people who are suddenly at home during the pandemic. What do your work days look like?
Vanesa: Yeah. It's been really ... I'm a night owl and so it's really good for me to know I have to go to bed by midnight because I have to be up and to work by nine. Now it's really self-discipline and really holding myself accountable because I'm up listening to my audiobooks or just coloring or just things to keep myself occupied while in the house.
Vanesa: Now it looks like me knowing that for the next four hours I need to be doing this regardless if I start at 10, 11, or 12, I need to be doing this. I'm heavily in an administrative role so emailing all of the things but also making sure that I'm creating boundaries within my home space because now, I mean, for people who are newly working remotely I would never be emailing while cooking dinner. Just really trying to maintain boundaries and reminding myself that I actually have a lot of things that need to be done even if I want to go to bed and take a midday nap.
Kenrya: Those midday naps. [crosstalk 00:17:54].
Erica: A nap is like a kiss on the cheek from God. It's just so sweet.
Vanesa: Yes. It is. Also, this is a good time where people are realizing you don't have to be in the office for 40 hours a week. It's so unhealthy.
Kenrya: You don't have to commute.
Vanesa: Yeah. You should be ... I just think there's a lot of space here for people to realize what's necessary and what's not necessary during this time.
Kenrya: Especially when you look at policies that keep people from doing that from home. It really is a necessity. This has brought up a lot of conversations about accessibility and disability. It's bigger than us.
Erica: Like you, I was in an office and am now working from home and I'm realizing that there was a lot of bullshit going on in the office. You can really condense a lot into the workday and I think people are realizing that those emails that could have been emails are actually now emails. It saves a whole lot of time.
Vanesa: Right or even just a phone call. Sometimes for like five minutes. What are we really meeting for? I've been on Zoom quite often. I'll just say that.
Kenrya: That's one thing, though. Everybody wants to see everybody now and I'm like we could just get on the phone. I don't have to do my hair.
Erica: I don't turn on my camera.
Vanesa: Yeah. I've actually started to not turn on my camera too. I've had a person or two ask me about things in my background and it feels very invasive. [crosstalk 00:19:39].
Kenrya: That's why I have a screen.
Vanesa: Right. Which I love [crosstalk 00:19:43].
Kenrya: Been doing this for so long. I'm like y'all don't need to be looking around my house. It's personal.
Vanesa: Yeah. I'm not there yet but that's awesome.
Erica: As you know, we've read a few poems from Black Lesbians We Are The Revolution on our show. Why was it important for you to contribute to that project?
Vanesa: You know, when I came out, I came out over 10 something years ago, and now I'm looking back like, "Man, Vanesa. Did you have to really do that? Could you have just walked in this truth without it being such a conversation with my mom?" Without such a heavy conversation with my dad who I haven't really spoken to ... After I came out, we haven't really spoken and been as close as we had been before.
Kenrya: I'm sorry to hear that.
Vanesa: It is okay. That's what therapy is for.
Erica: You can fill out therapy on your Bingo cards.
Vanesa: I'm like it's not even about me. It's about him. We haven't actually spoken in over two years now. I don't know. That relationship, if we get it back, we get it back. If not, there's a lot of other people in my life that I consider to be really great father figures.
Vanesa: My mom, I had that conversation. I was like, "If you're going to love me, you're going to love everything about me and if this is a part of me ..." I took women or I introduced her to my women friends because I was like, "We're not together" but I introduced her to folks. I kind of really forced her to see this as my whole person.
Vanesa: Now I'm like, "Oh, dang. What if I could have just walked in that truth without having these conversations?" Now I still think I'm ... I don't know. I'm still like, "Man, did I need that? Why did I need to say those things?" With my poetry that I write ... I mean, I've done LAMBDA literary retreats. They have our stuff up online. I think it was important for me to have this conversation with my mom, be honest with her, but then also the other folks that have read my stuff and have said, "Wow, Vanesa ..." I ended up writing really sexual stuff and I don't even know ... I wasn't reading ... I know sometimes people ask questions like, "Who are you reading?" I wasn't even reading anybody that was talking about this stuff or so sexual ... Even though I know there are writers that do that but I wasn't even reading any of it.
Vanesa: I just was like I am gay, I need to write all the things. I was expressing myself through my poetry—very sexual self—through my poetry. I think it was just important for me to do the thing and maybe other people could also feel liberated by me being so candid about the different sexual experiences that I've had.
Erica: Well, that turns me to my next question which is why do you think poetry is a good vehicle for the erotic?
Vanesa: I think I heard it .. That's a good question. I listen to y'all and I was like, "Oh, man ..."
Vanesa: I think it's an area where you can just experiment. The same way that you can experiment in the bedroom, poetry is a way that you can experiment with words and experiment with who you are sexually and even I revisit the two poems that were published in that collection and, at first, I thought ... It's like a questioning thing too. It's definitely an intimate relationship with you and the words, with yourself in these moments.
Vanesa: I think even as I was looking back at the two poems I thought that I was saying that the person was actually role playing but I was like, oh, the actual act of it was a role play ... In one of the poems, it was actually a role play for the both of us or for all ... It's all role play. Even me writing these poems is also me stepping into this other person as well. Maybe a way for me to be able to express myself sexually.
Erica: I like that.
Kenrya: The back of the book has a quote from Pat Parker that really resonates with me. It says, "The day the different parts of me can come along we will have what I will call a revolution." What does revolution look like to you?
Vanesa: I think definitely freedom, expression, sexual expression. Just being able to really create the world that we know [inaudible 00:25:02] whatever with it but what can we do with our community? I just always keep coming back to the word community and how we can really create the things that we want has to be revolutionary and not being afraid to move forward knowing that we might lose out on some things but also what we gain is freedom in just our community once we are able to connect with folks. Being able to express yourself openly without fear.
Erica: Yeah. We read two of your poems on the show last week, “Questioning” and “Non/Fiction.” “Questioning” grapples with the stereotypes that a mother just off-page projected on lesbians and thus her daughter. What was the genesis of this poem?
Vanesa: Yeah. The coming out to my mom and me imagining ... Yeah. Imagining how to put that whole conversation into ... I write very short poems. Imagining what that conversation would look like in poem form but when I came out to my mom or when I had this conversation with her she was like, "I knew you were hanging out with this one person and I knew it's not you, it's this other person that's doing it to you."
Vanesa: I'm like, "No, it's actually such a strong desire of who I am" and even the way that I told her was like, "I have really strong deep connections with women that I would like to explore in a sexual way." "That's just a best friend, that's just a best friend." I'm like, "No, the attraction that I have makes me want to please in this other way that's beyond ... That is friendship but also beyond in this very sexual way but also friendships can have that as well."
Vanesa: I just was like I have to get to the root of this attraction. It's sexual, it's intimate, it's friend, it's platonic, it's all the things. Yeah. I was like, "Oh man. I'm actually this person that my mom is afraid that is leading me into this lifestyle." I was like, "It's actually me that she's really ..."
Erica: I'm the influence.
Vanesa: I was like, "I'm actually who you're afraid of" in a way, that I am becoming this person ... I'm already the person that you're afraid ... Yeah. It was a whole weird circle that the poem came from.
Kenrya: The other one that we read was “Non/Fiction.” That also brings up things of family. In this case, as someone goes down on their partner's strap. How do you think our relationships with our families and their attitudes towards sex and gender and form are adult relationships? Why is this important terrain for you to explore?
Vanesa: Say that one more time.
Kenrya: Yeah. How do you think that our relationships with our families and their attitudes towards sex and gender and form are adult relationships? Intimate and otherwise.
Vanesa: Yeah. I mean, I never saw my mom and dad ... They're not together. They're divorced and both remarried. I never saw kissing or anything. I never saw slightly intimate moments. I think, for me, even in one of the questions y'all asked in the vehicle of poetry is I think for me I got to also recreate intimacy that I wanted to see ... Not to say that I wanted to see my parents in this very intimate way but I wanted to see what love looked like for them, physical attraction looked like. It was easy for me out of one things happening in my life and me being very sexually involved in ways, but I wanted to create these scenarios of what this could look like.
Vanesa: That's a really intense question. I think that I need time, I'm so sorry, to think about that, because it's really [crosstalk 00:29:42].
Kenrya: Don't be sorry for wanting to be thoughtful.
Vanesa: Yeah. That's really interesting. If you can ask the second part of that question?
Kenrya: Sure. Why is this important terrain for you to explore with your work?
Vanesa: Yeah, I think it's really important for me to be able to write out ... It's not even fantasy but being able to write out these really intense moments of role play, of masculine identified lesbians, trans ... The different ways that I might even explore through myself but that other people are actually grappling with in these really intimate ways of being with each other and looking at to see do I want this because I want it? Do I want this because I have been taught to want it? Especially that particular scene of going down.
Vanesa: We think that that's what we want to be able to give our partner, especially somebody that might not have been born with an actual body piece, the actual penis but the strap on and how important at certain times in my life strap ons have been in intimate moments but then also what does this mean that I'm doing this? What does it mean that I want to do it to help you see that I see you as this very masculine person as well.
Vanesa: I think for me with that poem and the other poems that I write, I think that I try to help to free people or to help move them along in their journey of representation through these very ... When I had been sexual with cis men, I never even liked that. I will do this for you because I know this is how you're identifying and I know that's how you want to be experienced in my mouth, like that's ... I don't know. That's just kind of ... I think it's freeing to be able to read that and also to be able to write it for myself and looking at ... It wasn't just about me doing this for you but it was also about maybe you were doing these things for me too. Just the freedom of the act and to be able to write about it.
Vanesa: Yeah. That's a hard one, though. [crosstalk 00:32:20].
Erica: No but that's a really great answer. That was a really great answer.
Erica: You say you're reading lots of young adult. Can you give us a few titles of what you're reading right now?
Vanesa: Yeah. And audio. A lot of them in the audio world right now because I'm on my computer a lot, a lot for work. I'm trying to give my eyes a break. I love hearing authors read their stuff. What got me into YA really, really was Jacqueline Woodson and her. Yeah. I ended up reading the majority of her YA and always go back to “Another Brooklyn.”
Vanesa: Let me see, I had to write down a list because I'm on like 15 books for the free library audio books. Yeah. They have a really great selection of audiobooks. Like I mentioned earlier, “Black Girl Unlimited” by Echo Brown and now even “Lead From the Outside” by Stacy Abrams. I had to switch away a little bit. Also, “Akata Witch” and “Akata Warrior” by Nnedi Okorafor.
Vanesa: Yeah. Those have been my two YA. I'm always reading a YA and also reading maybe an autobiography too. Definitely those are books, Echo Brown and Stacy Abrams are two people I'm just trying to get ... Stacy Abrams is such an amazing writer. I'm trying to get some encouragement from her.
Kenrya: This is the time.
Vanesa: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: What does success look like to you?
Vanesa: Success? You know, I thought a good company, I live actually in Charlottesville, which is recent ... Yeah. I think that success looks like really living ... I think that ask me maybe before March I would have been like going on vacation and being able to do these different things but having been in real self-isolation for four ... I haven't been to the office in over 100 days and seeing maybe more than three people in 100 days, I think now success just looks like being able to walk outside and feel happy, surrounding yourself with people that care about you, doing things that make you happy, eating good food.
Vanesa: With success, I don't even think it's about a pay check anymore because so many people have lost their jobs. At the beginning of the year, they had the job. I think now it's just really being happy, doing things that make you happy, and being surrounded by people and things that make you happy and being able to go outside and sit in the grass and eat.
Kenrya: 2020 is such an interesting year I think. It's taken a lot from us but I think it's also given us a new perspective on a lot of things. It's helped some of us to be more community minded. Some of us to do the opposite.
Kenrya: Either way, this is going to be a landmark year.
Erica: I was going to say, this has been a crucible year. It has been life changing.
Kenrya: Literally generation defining. As a 39-year-old, the thing that I think used to define us was September 11th but we got some new shit now.
Vanesa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Erica: Okay. Little fun now. I am going to say a word and you tell me the first word that comes to mind when I say it. Okay?
Kenrya: That sounds scary.
Erica: Don't be. Don't be. I only have a few. Words.
Vanesa: Ice cream. I have a really ... My favorite ice cream is this black marshmallow ice cream and the ice cream shop closed down.
Erica: Aww. Okay. Joy.
Vanesa: Bubble gum.
Vanesa: Ramen. I have a ramen cookbook. I love ramen.
Erica: Yeah. No. That makes sense. I love ramen. I love what can I do to it this time?
Vanesa: Yeah. What can I add into it?
Erica: Okay. Finish this sentence, I am a ...
Vanesa: A lover.
Erica: I love it. Okay. Well, that's all I've got for you.
Vanesa: That wasn't that scary.
Erica: See! We don't bite. I mean, we do but...
Kenrya: What's up next for you?
Vanesa: Yeah. I just had a conversation with a really dear close friend yesterday. I was like I am getting tired of talking about these things that I want to do. How can we do these things? I need accountability. I am going to be trying, like I just was sharing with you all, finishing up my Bible poems, one. Two, I've been working with some photography things, me and my cellphone photography. I'm thinking about what I can do ... I cannot let this thesis go yet because I took too long to write it. What are ways that I can revise it and then bring visuals to it? I'm just really obsessed with the Declaration of Independence still. I just have a couple more projects that I need to wring out from that before I can let it go.
Kenrya: That's awesome. Where can people find you?
Vanesa: I'm on Instagram. My page is private but people can send me requests if you want to but at AnesaVa. A-N-E-S-A-V-A on Instagram.
Kenrya: Dope. Thank you so much for coming on this week.
Vanesa: Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to this so thank you all so much.
Kenrya: Yay. That's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. Thank you all for joining us and we'll see you next week.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app and then drop us a five star review and you'll be entered to win one of the things that's turning us on. To enter, just post your review and email a screenshot of it to TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and you'll access lots of goodies including The Turn On Book Club and two-for-one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions and follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Bye.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.