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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to singer ArinMaya about abandoning The V Club, making pivots, using the gifts God gives us, being goal-oriented in relationships and the commodification of sex.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today, we're talking with ArinMaya, pronouns, she and her. ArinMaya is an inspirational singer, songwriter, sound healer, activist and entrepreneur who's described as having a “unique and ancient sound.” Though she's been called the mayor of Brooklyn, she originally hails from Chicago’s South Side where her artistic training began with studies in West African dance and rhythms and community choirs. Inspired by past studies with Bobby McFerrin and other giants, ArinMaya created Meditation Moments, a community offering meant to help people self-heal and center themselves in the midst of COVID-19.
Kenrya: She’s shared the stage with countless icons and she's also a founding member, arranger, and musical director with the Resistance Revival Chorus. She's performed on The Late Show with Jimmy Fallon, on NBC Saturday Night Live, and for incarcerated youth at Rikers Island. With multiple singles and EPs under her belt, ArinMaya is hard at work on several projects including her second full length album, “I Love My Afro Ratchet Soul.” Thanks for coming on the show, Arin.
ArinMaya: Thank you for having me.
Kenrya: Of course.
Erica: Arin, what did little Arin want to be when she grew up?
ArinMaya: So funny. That's a good question. I think it depends on the age you ask, but at some point, I think I knew I wanted to be a singer. But being from Chicago, that wasn't really a thing. I think I just wanted to be happy which still holds true today, so there's that.
Erica: That's really dope and beautiful, because I think as kids, we're so doctor, lawyer, teacher for you to boil it down to the essence of, "I just want to be happy," that you were thinking much more advanced than most of us as little people, I feel.
Kenrya: Yeah. Than most grown folks out here.
Erica: Yes. Very true.
Kenrya: Yeah. How did you get from, "I want to be happy?" What was the actual path that you took to becoming the singer and entertainer that you are?
ArinMaya: That is also a loaded question.
Kenrya: Why loaded?
ArinMaya: We all went to Howard University and... Let's see.
ArinMaya: Yes. In high school or at whatever point I started getting money enough to go shopping all the time, that's what I did, and my mother told me when I was in high school like, "You need to get a well-paying job because you like to shop a lot." That was what led me to think, "Oh, you need to work in finance," or, "You need to work in business or banks or something," which is boring and stupid. At Howard, I went into the school of business that I didn't find myself there at all really. I got into the school of business, so I felt like I needed to stay there, but from the beginning, I knew that I was writing as well because the high school I went to was like a mini liberal arts college kind of thing.
ArinMaya: I started doing the work of a double major in English at the same time, even though Howard was adamant. They were like, "You can't do a double major in the School of B usiness and the College of Arts and Sciences because that is considered a dual major and it's going to take you five years." I was like, "I don't know you and you don't know me and what you think is going to take five years is probably not going to take me five years because I have a four-year scholarship, so bye, but also, I'm going to do what I want to do."
ArinMaya: I was taking classes as a double major and at a certain point, I was like, "I don't want to do business. F it." My junior year when I went to Stanford, before the year started, I came back to Howard and I was like, "I'm good with you. Let me drop my business degree down to a minor and change my major to English." My mother was not happy because she was like, "If you wanted to major in English, you should have gone to a liberal arts college and specialized in English and na-na-na-na-na." I was like, "That's cool. That's why I didn't call you. I called Dad." Anyway, I changed my major to English. Business was a minor and I thought that I wanted to still be like in business, and so I always liked books, I liked reading.
ArinMaya: I went into book publishing when I graduated at Random House, which was great. In my mind, because people there were happy, it wasn't corporate because I was trying to avoid corporate. Because corporate to me just meant slavery and all that kind of stuff. I was there for about... I graduated 2004 and I was there until spring of 2006. Just under two years because I did the rotational program, but anyway what I realized very quickly was it was absolutely corporate. They did not care if the books were good, they cared if there was money. I was like, "I'm good on you. Bye." Plus there was no girls. I ended up being in publicity. They didn't have Black people and they weren't really trying to let me grow. I was like, "But I already got books on the New York Times. Okay. F you. I'm out."
ArinMaya: I left there. I went into nonprofit because I was like, "Oh, this is great. I used to do some nonprofit stuff in high school and I thought I was getting in the right side. I went in the wrong side so instead of being a foundation, I was at a nonprofit begging for money which was not horrible. It just wasn't great. Then, I was bored out of my mind because there was no growth there. I was like, "I'm good. Actually, I really like singing and doing art stuff so I'm just going to go to Paris for a little while," and I did that.
ArinMaya: I was just exploring the life of being an artist and I did not know what I was doing. I was poor in Paris, but I was able to survive on petit pains and mustard and bananas and couscous for a while. I was staying with a friend who was also an artist. He's an artist, [inaudible 00:06:39]. I'm not famous, but he was famous, but anyway, the point is that's where the transition happened. I had started taking voice lessons in New York, maybe in 2005 or 2006 because I thought that God was going to take away my singing voice. I was scared and so I just decided I should do something about it. When I started taking voice lessons and still didn't know what I was going to do, but I was like, "I should do this so God doesn't take away my voice because I love singing." Then, when I ended up being bored with my jobs, I was like, "Let met just leave and be out."
ArinMaya: Art makes me happy. I still don't know what I'm doing with my life, but since then, that was 2007 that I left my job and went to Paris in 2008. Since then, I feel like God's been pretty good. He's been providing. Opportunities have come and when I follow my heart and follow my inspiration, good things happen. That's good. Money is good too, but it comes. It comes, and money's not everything, it turns out. It balances out.
Kenrya: God provides.
Erica: Yes. Yes. Question, you said that you were taking voice lessons because you didn't want God to take away your voice. Explain that a little more. Was it because you weren't using it and so you were like, "Let me keep doing it," or just give me some thoughts.
ArinMaya: Earlier, I said because I'm from Chicago, I didn't really feel like singing was a career option. I remember explicitly thinking in high school that when I get older, I will be a singer and I will sing in jazz clubs at night after I get off work. I remember thinking that and planning for that. From age five until now, I'm still singing in a choir. But from age five all throughout my childhood and high school, I was in several multiple choirs. I was used to singing... Even if I was soloing, I was used to singing in groups. When I went to Howard, you all remember, you all didn't see me singing at Howard. There was no, "Oh, look Arin is..." Nope. I got there and the thing is... Okay. What happened was I went to a predominately white rich as fuck. Can I say fuck? Okay.
Kenrya: Girl, do you know how often we say fuck on this show?
ArinMaya: I just wanted to make sure. [inaudible 00:09:29]. I went to a predominately white rich as fuck white high school, right? I sang there and I was comfortable singing there because I was Black and they were white and I somehow understood even though I still sang in my church choir, which was very Black, Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright all of it. Okay? Pre-Barack but anyway, I was around Black people all the time and I was singing around Black people but Howard, I don't know. Just Howard was a whole different level of Blackness. I was like, "You all not about to try to play me with your super amazing special solo singing Blackness and I'm not good enough." Something stopped me from feeling like I could not even compete, but be accepted fully by the Blackness that was Howard's singing community. I actually didn't sing at Howard until senior year because Richard Smallwood had a choir and I was like, "I don't care whose competing against me at this point. It's Richard Smallwood, I'm doing it."
Erica: This is going to happen.
ArinMaya: It's happening, but I sang at Stanford. I didn't sing freshman and sophomore year, and I sang at Stanford in the acapella group. I soloed all over the place. Then, I sang at Richard Smallwood's choir but it was a small thing and it might have been like a one- or two-time thing. Again, you all didn't know. When I graduate from Howard and went to New York, it's New York, so I was like, "I don't know. Maybe I'll just sit back here." I think I found a choir or two to sing with here and there, but I just really didn't know how to find my own voice. I didn't know what to do if I wanted to be a singer because I was never a solo artist.
ArinMaya: It was never something that I really had context for, and so what happened was I went home for Christmas one year like I always did, previous to COVID, and we would always go to church for the New Year's Eve service and we would pray the new year in. We were at the watch service and praying the new year in and all I know is I felt like God was like, "So you're not going to use that gift that I gave you, right? That's cool. I'm just going to redistribute it." I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hey, hold on. It's cool. I got you. I got you. Amen." Okay.
ArinMaya: Then, I went to this woman who was one of the soloists at the church whose voice I just love. She's effing amazing. I went up to her literally, like finished the prayer, went to her in the sanctuary and I was like, "Hey, hey, hey. Hey, Angela. I feel like God is going to take away my voice. I don't want that to happen so here's what I need you to do. What do I do in New York to be a singer or something? What do I do? How do I let God know that I don't want Him to take this away from me?" She's like "I guess you can try to find a voice coach or something." I was like "Cool, cool, cool. Okay. Okay."
ArinMaya: That's what I looked for. I think I asked a friend and her friend's brother was at Julliard for voice. He became my first voice teacher and it turns out that it was his younger brother who I became friends with who I lived with in Paris, Terence Nance, the video guy who made all of the things that... Just everything, everybody who is famous. One day, I'll be famous. It's fine.
Kenrya: Yeah. “Random Acts of Flyness” was his latest thing. Yeah.
ArinMaya: Yeah. He's like [inaudible]-ish. Yeah. His brother was my first voice teacher and then I moved around to a couple other voice teachers because I think he left and went back to Texas for a little while. Yeah. It just felt like a promise. It just felt like God made a promise in that moment and I was like, "No, it's okay. I got it. Thank you, God. I love my voice. Thank you." Yeah.
Erica: I'm going to keep using it.
ArinMaya: [inaudible 00:13:56]. Yeah.
Erica: Okay. As you know, here at The Turn On, we talk about sex or fucking as some people call it.
Kenrya: Some people are us.
Erica: We like to ask...
Erica: Some people are us, because we like to curse. What was the prevailing attitude about sex in your home growing up?
ArinMaya: It's interesting and I guess it's probably funny too. I don't know that there was a prevailing attitude, but my mother was a social worker and she worked mainly with foster kids. I think she had a certain awareness about things. She never wanted to make us feel bad and I'm sure she wanted us to be able to come to her, but did we come to her? I don't know, probably not. But for whatever reason, I don't know where I got the idea, but somehow I got the idea that I think I must have, at church, at some point, read the word fornication. I was like, "I don't want to do that. That's bad." Me and my friends in junior high or high school, or maybe it was me and I went to them and I was like, "This is what we're going to do." They were like, "Okay," but I was like...
Erica: Knowing you, it sounds like it was a, "This is what we're going to do," but continue.
ArinMaya: I probably came up with the idea on my own, but whatever the case, I was like, "No sex before marriage. That's fornication. That's not good. We shouldn't do that. That was what I chose. It was like when I was in elementary school, I knew that I was going to go to Whitney Young High School and I knew I was going to go to Spellman because that was just what I understood." It was a choice and I decided it and that was what it was going to be. Obviously, not what happened. It didn't happen. I'm glad that I went to Howard, so glad. But anyway, Spellman is great too. The point is I decided, at some point, that I was going to be a virgin until I got married and my mom would make fun of me because she's like, "Who told you that?" She was like, "Don't you try shoes on before you take them home?"
Erica: Yes, mama.
Kenrya: Right? Look at her talking sense.
ArinMaya: Yeah. I was like, "Well, mom, that's fine, but I know what I'm going to do, so whatever, sinner.” Yeah. I don't know. It's what I decided and that was my story and I was sticking to it. That was what it was until it wasn't that anymore. Yeah.
Erica: Until it wasn't. That's a good way to put it.
Kenrya: That actually leads to our next question, right? We asked you to come on because the last book that we read on the show, “Ho! Ho! Ho!” featured a woman who waited to have sex. She waited a long time and ended up marrying the first person she ever had sex to and then, things didn't go that well, but it made us curious about what was your journey to partnered sex. How did you get from, "No. I got to be in the V club forever," to, "I'm going to go on and do this right quick."
ArinMaya: I'm not ashamed of this. Okay? This is just my truth.
Kenrya: You should never be ashamed and this is not the show for shame, so you're good.
ArinMaya: No, no, no. It's silly though. I think about it and I know what happened and I know the decision that I made and it's funny. Welcome, here's the story. I was a virgin and I don't remember... Let me think. It had to be somewhere between 2006 and 2007, a girl who I had become friends with through another friend, sent me a link for Craigslist because the Tyra Show was like, "We want people who have never seen pornography before."
Erica: I remember this.
ArinMaya: Of course, my luck, wonderful, it aired Columbus Day weekend. I was getting calls from like...
Erica: Everybody was at home.
ArinMaya: Everybody was at home and I'm like, "Oh, great." The thing is like I don't care, even though it's so funny because I remember my senior year, there was like this group of dudes and they were like... It was like the end of senior year, "Arin, we can't tell if you're a virgin, a ho, or just a tease." In my head, I was like, "Good. I don't care." But anyway, I digress.
Kenrya: Why are you trying to figure it out? Mind your business.
ArinMaya: They was like, "How come none of this has fucked you? I don't understand." I'm pretty sure that was the reasoning. But the point was, I was a really good flirt. I was a really good... Anyway, okay. I wasn't fucking at Howard and I wasn't fucking after Howard for a while. I was on the Tyra Show, which I guess everybody saw and then they realized, "Oh, she was actually a virgin. That's why we hadn't fucked her." I went on there as not only the person who had never seen pornography who was over 25, but the virgin who had never seen pornography who was over 25. They loved that because they were like, "Great. Do you get paid for talk shows? No, you don't." "Why did I do this? I don't know, I was bored." It was months before I left for Paris.
Kenrya: You know everybody want to be on TV.
ArinMaya: I don't even think I wanted... I just was like, "Okay." Literally, I was on a break down. I cut my locks off and I was going to Paris soon after. That was when I was 25 because I turned 26 that year. I went to Paris. I didn't fuck in Paris. I came back when I was still 26. What happened was I moved to Brooklyn and at that point, I was writing songs. I was writing songs and I was becoming an artist. I started working at a wine shop. I think I was working back at a nonprofit part-time. I was creating my life and I was creating my voice as an artist. In the midst of writing these songs, I just feel like there is a corner of life that's untapped in here. I feel like I'm missing out on something like a chapter that I'm not writing because I have experienced...
Kenrya: You needed to do some research.
ArinMaya: That thing. Literally, I was like, "You're going to have to fuck." You're going to [inaudible 00:21:18].
Erica: You're going to have to fuck.
ArinMaya: You're going to have to be fucking because how are you going to write about deep, deep love if you're not even fucking?
Kenrya: Oh, my God.
ArinMaya: Literally, that's what led me to the first dick that I ever encountered in an intercoursal type of relationship, and it wasn't great. He was way too young. He did not know how to keep it up, and I probably didn't see him much after that at all because I was like, "I don't understand what just happened." That happened. Then, the next person... Because at that point, I was like, "Get on the horse and ride."
Female: Make up for lost time.
ArinMaya: This guy who I had been friends with and we had been kicking it and I was like, "Great. Let's do this." He was like, "Okay." I don't know if he thought that... He probably didn't know I was a virgin, right? The fact is he was a very... It's fine. He was in conversation earlier. I was talking about him earlier with my now life partner because we both know him and of course, I told my life partner that I fucked him, but the point is this guy is very tall, very well-endowed. Would I choose him again? No. Why? Because it wasn't great. Why? Because bitch, this is your second time fucking. What are you thinking? It was literally...
Erica: You just don't jump to the Olympics.
ArinMaya: It was. It was like, "What are you doing?" I didn't know. I was just like, "Fuck it. It's fine. Here we are. You trust him. He's not going to take a video. It's fine." Then, I think it was either afterwards, he was like, "Why didn't you tell me that this was just your second time?" I was like, "I didn't know I needed to tell you that. I just was trying..." Anyway, that wasn't great. Then, the third time was actually with a friend of my... We don't need to talk about who it was. Anyway, the third time was actually decent even though I probably [inaudible 00:23:56], but it was a reasonable sized endeavor and for whatever reason, I kind of felt like I liked him a little.
ArinMaya: There was some slight emotional thing, but really not. It was like we drank a lot one night and then tried, couldn't get it up because he had been drinking then the next morning, it just felt like more endearing and because it was a reasonably sized endeavor, that... But eventually, I did find a couple of really great scenarios that worked out and I felt like it went much better, but that's how we got there. That's how we got there. I needed to write songs that were about something and I was like, "Fuck it. Let's fuck," basically.
Kenrya: The logistics of song writing.
Erica: Fuck it. Let's fuck.
ArinMaya: I think that it probably didn't make a difference if I'm honest.
Erica: Okay. This is a thing about us Howard girls, not even Howard girls. We want to research. We want to feel like we have all the parts and the bits that we need to know in order to properly express ourselves about X, Y and Z. It's like, "Girl, honey, you ain't need to do all that. Just fucking feel"
Kenrya: Also, there's nothing wrong with research.
Erica: Okay. The book that we talked about “Ho! Ho! Ho!” it features this woman. She ended up marrying the first person she had sex with and you talked about your steps to enlightenment, endeavors, endeavorships. My question for you is what was your experience like interacting my potential partners once you started to have sex, and so you were looking at them as potential fuckers.
ArinMaya: Yeah. I think that... This may sound weird, but when I would meet a guy who I actually liked, I wasn't about to fuck him. I was like, "No. I actually like you, so you can't have it because I want to get to know you and I don't want sex to be something that you feel is a milestone you've reached and now you don't need to go deeper into the understanding of who I am and all that kind of stuff." It wasn't something that I was using as a trick or anything. It's just when I realized that I actually liked a guy, I just knew I wasn't really trying to fuck him right off. I lived in a studio apartment in Brooklyn for a long time and what that meant was that my furniture was a bed. There just wasn't a lot to do in my house if you came in my house other than cook and pee and sleep. I was like, "Well, you just can't come into my house."
ArinMaya: I remember in church being told like, "Don't put yourself in any situation that you feel like is not a good situation or you feel like it's a dangerous... Or if you don't feel good, then don't go there." Right? I think that I probably had maybe one situation where I let somebody come to my house and I was like, "This is just stupid. Why did you do this? Send him home. Don't even finish fucking. Just send him home." If you've ever seen one, you pretend like it never happened.
Kenrya: Been there.
ArinMaya: That happened, but it only happened like once. The thing is and it kind of sounds unrelated, but ultimately when I was younger, much younger, when I was in elementary or junior high, I remember explicitly... I remember a conversation with one of my best male friends, who I totally had a crush on, but eventually kind of got over it, but not really until college because I [inaudible 00:28:34] even though he was engaged. I just still you know. I was the kind of girl who was always looking for my husband.
ArinMaya: When he and I were on the phone one day, we were talking about girlfriend, boyfriends and I was like, "What is a boyfriend anyway like a boy who is your friend? Then, you're my boyfriend, right? This is stupid." I don't want a boyfriend because boyfriend has this understand that it's temporary. It's like, "Oh, let's be girlfriend and boyfriend for two, three weeks and then let's stop being boyfriend and girlfriend and let's go do something else." I was like, "I'm not looking for that." I was like, "I really just want a husband. I don't even understand what all this is for. Just give me a husband." Then, when “Brown Sugar” came out, I was like, "That's what I'm talking about, a best friend who becomes your husband. This is what I want."
ArinMaya: I was always very goal-oriented. I was always looking for the husband. I really never dated seriously. I didn't date seriously because I could meet a dude and within like two weeks, I'm like, "Well, no. No, this is not it. We can kick it like you can buy me food, we can hang out, like maybe we're sharing some level of intimacy, but you're not it, so I'm not going to pretend you're something that you're not." I think I really kind of compartmentalized my sexual brain or that connectivity with people because I knew that if he was going to be something important, sex wasn't even going to be something that we were talking about until it was time. That was just how I dealt with it.
ArinMaya: That doesn't mean I wasn't fucking. I was fucking, but I was mainly fucking casual because I was like, "Well..." It was guy who I don't consider as having dated, but he wanted to be titled. We just started talking. Then, I was like, "The sex is really good. I really wish you would just let it be that." It was just a whole complicated thing, but I know he wasn't it because he was tying to make something into something it wasn't early on. I was like, "Okay. Whatever." I think there were very, very few people who I really thought were going to be my husband. There was this one guy and he had gone to med school in Cuba, and I was like, "This is my husband." We hung out, I think. Maybe we didn't hangout immediately after I started fucking, but soon enough and I did eventually have sex with him and it was great but then I found out that he doesn't give head and I was like, so I cried.
Erica: Why would you send him to me, Lord?"
Kenrya: If ever you needed a clear signal that somebody wasn't the one...
ArinMaya: I cried in bed with him that night. Then, the next day, I let him go. I was like...
ArinMaya: "Well, this was fun while it lasted."
Kenrya: I'm proud of you for choosing you.
Erica: Yeah. I choose me.
ArinMaya: "But not going to work out, so go find what you need. I'm going to do that too. Thank you for playing."
Erica: Thank you for joining.
ArinMaya: But there were very few people who I really felt fucking strongly enough about that I was even relating them. It was really like, "Oh, there's this guy. We're kissing and he's not it, but we're kissing. That's cool." Then, there's this other guy like, "We're fucking, but he's not it. That's cool." Then, to be like, "Oh, there's this guy. I really like him." Then, we kiss, but I'm not going to fuck him because I like him and I want him to get to know me and I want us to do that. It worked out pretty well because I just don't like fuckery like, "Oh, let's pretend like this is something..." I'm like, "No." Like I said, I'm still looking for a husband.
Erica: Let's keep it a buck. How do you feel about the way like having sex for the first time is portrayed in the media?
ArinMaya: I just feel like I have said the word fuck so many times.
Erica: It's okay. We say it a lot on this show.
Kenrya: A lot.
Erica: This is actually a low fuck kind of episode.
Kenrya: Episode. Yeah. Seriously, you're good.
ArinMaya: Yeah. I think it's really fucked up, because I was thinking about it obviously earlier today and I was thinking... The terms that we use are, Oh, I lost my virginity." It's like, "I didn't lose my virginity. It didn't slip out of me one day. It didn't walk on a street and it fell out of my pocket." I didn't lose anything. I think that it actively takes away not only the onus, but the... What is it that I'm thinking, the autonomy of a woman. Right? It's like I'm a woman. I made decisions for my body, for myself and if I just choose to share my body with someone else, then that is what happens with my permission. Granted, that's not everybody's story, unfortunately, but I just think because we live in the fucked up fucktivity of America that is so patriarchal and also capitalism, it all plays together, but because of that, so much of what is communicated to us about our bodies, about sexual activity is...
ArinMaya: I remember when I went to Ghana and I was confused. I was in a cab going to where I was staying. I saw a billboard and I think it was about Sprite and there was a guy drinking a Sprite. I was like, "That's so interesting. There's no sex in that ad." There's so much of what we... Why is my brain not working very well? Because they pervert everything.
ArinMaya: They pervert everything. I remember there was this ad on the back of a truck. I think it was a moving truck and this guy and this girl were fucking on the back of the truck and it was like, "Move with us." I'm like, "What does this have to do with moving? I don't understand."
ArinMaya: This is how ads are constructed in America. At the same time, they're like, "Don't you have sex before you get married." Then, they're also like, "Here are the condoms you need if you're going to have sex." I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." There is a lot of confusion happening here. There's all like the church and religion and you're a ho or you're a slut and also why are you wearing those clear heals. Also, "It's okay if you're a rapist. We'll forgive you in about a year because she was wearing something that made you do that." Just all these things, it's fucked up. As far as sex and virginity, how can you not be confused?
ArinMaya: Now, there seems to be... I can't speak on it because I don't really pay a lot of attention to pop culture, but it seems like there's a movement in pop culture of women taking back their power and their autonomy and using their bodies the way they want to and not being told what they should and shouldn't do. It's funny because I think that because I grew up in the time where that wasn't the case, I remember the Janet Jackson album cover with the guy holding her breast from behind. That was a scandal. That was it. That was really it. It feels like...
Erica: You see this stuff now and you're like, "Oh, the young girls are going to be okay." They own it. They recognize the bullshit that their parents are being fed or that their parents are trying to feed them, and they own it. That part, it's not all perfect, but I feel like, "Okay. They're going to be okay."
ArinMaya: I was just saying I'm not really worried because I don't really have a stake in it, and I also feel like, "Everybody, do what you do and everything should be fine." I don't have time to judge other people for working or shaking their asses.
Kenrya: Just all mind our business.
ArinMaya: It doesn't have anything to do with me. I just want people to be safe and happy.
Erica: That's a novel idea.
Kenrya: Yeah. Unfortunately, it is because there's too many motherfuckers out here minding everybody else's business. But then, we also do shows like this in hopes of helping folks to be able to better express themselves and feel more comfortable and to be able to live into who they really are. I'm wondering speaking of the things that we do on this show, what you are reading right now?
ArinMaya: Was I dreading this question? Possibly. Am I reading anything?
Erica: That's okay, boo, if you're not reading. That's just okay.
Kenrya: You got stuff going on.
ArinMaya: I just finished reading a couple of books, which my mother suggested to me. One of them... See, I'm forgetting the author's name, but “The Supremes at Earl's All You Can Eat.” It's like fiction. It's kind of easy, chick lit summer reading whatever. I read that and then the follow up book and they were fun. I'm currently digging into Glennon Doyle's “Untamed” and I paused for a little bit, but I'm going to get back to it because I've heard that it's really amazing.
Erica: Okay. What is turning you on today?
ArinMaya: What's turning me on today? What's turning me on today is that my partner just got back from out of town and he's totally been all like, "Oh, I have to go to the gym every day and do that and do this," but he's super cute and he cut his hair and he actually looks great and I'm like, "Oh hey, boo."
Erica: Hey, boy.
ArinMaya: That's one of the things that is turning me on today.
Erica: Okay. We're going to do a quick rapid fire in which I will say a word and you tell me your favorite, so let's go. It's quick. Well, we try to make it quick.
ArinMaya: I'm not scared. I'm not scared.
Kenrya: Don't be scared.
Erica: Don't be. Don't be.
Kenrya: It's okay.
Erica: Don't be scared. Okay. Favorite drink?
Erica: Oh, I love margarita. Favorite person?
ArinMaya: My partner, Edson Sean.
Erica: Aww. Favorite place?
ArinMaya: Buckingham Fountain, Chicago, Illinois.
Erica: Oh, home. Favorite word?
Erica: Okay. I love it.
ArinMaya: I was going to say fuck, but we've said enough fucking on this show.
Kenrya: We can never have too much fucking.
Erica: Never too much fucking.
Kenrya: As long as it's consensual.
ArinMaya: After that, it's called pulchritudinous because it means beautiful and it's ugly as shit.
Erica: I love it. Okay. Because we talk about this, you're always telling me you buy too much stuff. What is your favorite thing to buy?
ArinMaya: I have everything and I love buying it all. I want to say shoes.
Kenrya: You can say shoes.
ArinMaya: I don't know. Clothes and shoes. You got to have one to wear the other, not really, but... Yeah. Yeah. Shoes, clothes. Yeah.
Erica: Okay. I like it. Your favorite smell?
ArinMaya: That's so interesting, right? What kind of question is that? I like grapefruit candles.
Erica: That's a good one.
Female: I like that.
ArinMaya: All right.
Kenrya: That's dope. Okay. What's next for you? What do you got in the works? What's coming up that you can share?
Erica: We know there's a big project, but....
ArinMaya: Huge project. Huge project. The next thing needs to be “I Love My Afro Ratchet Soul” because once I finish the project that I'm working on right now, I'm going to hop right back on that pony and get that done which is my second full length album that will be done at some point in the future. I was looking forward to finishing it and then COVID was like, "No, you won't." I was like, "Great." I'm just looking forward to being in the studio with the artists, with the instrumentalists, actually sharing ideas, collaborating and all that and then getting it together and having video of that whole process. Yeah.
Kenrya: That's going to be dope. Yeah. You all can find out more about that and keep track by going to arinmaya.com. It's A-R-I-N-M-A-Y-A.com. They can also follow you on Twitter and IG. What's your handle, dear?
ArinMaya: ArinMaya. Same, A-R-I-N-M-A-Y-A.
Kenrya: It's the same on Facebook? It's no spaces in between, right?
ArinMaya: No spaces. If you ever want to write my name, it's capitalized A, lower case R-I-N, capital M, no space, A-Y-A. It's ArinMaya, just one word.
Kenrya: Yes. Even though we're horrible about saying it, because we just call you Arin. Sorry.
ArinMaya: That's all right.
ArinMaya: It's okay. It can be confusing for people. Some people accidentally... Accidentally? I don't know. Some people, sometimes they're like, "Maya," and I'm like...
Kenrya: No. Who's that?
Erica: You don't know me.
Kenrya: But see, that's how you know they don't actually know you.
ArinMaya: My name is Arin and if you want to do ArinMaya, just make sure I hear the Arin first, but yeah.
Kenrya: That's so us. Well, thank you so much for coming on. We had a ball.
ArinMaya: Thank you for having me and thank you for doing this amazingness that you are putting out into the world, so effortlessly.
Erica: Thank you.
Kenrya: Yay. We're trying
ArinMaya: Not try, you are doing.
Kenrya: Thank you for that reminder. We all need that. Yes. Thanks to everyone who is listening and watching. That is it for this week's episode of The Turn On and we'll be back next week. Take care.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now on your favorite podcast app and at youtube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so that you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then, follow us on Twitter, @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram, @TheTurnOnPodcast, and you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.
Erica: You can support the show by leaving us a five star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we will see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read Rilzy Adams' "Ho! Ho! Ho!" and talk about people who seek out virgins, dealing with STIs, holding grudges, what the body knows, post-trauma rituals and the joys of rewatching—and quoting—"Waiting to Exhale" as adults.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Welcome to this week's episode of the Turn On. This week we are reading “Ho! Ho! Ho!” which is a Christmas short by Rilzy Adams, which was published in 2020. So sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, and whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Ho! Ho! Ho!” by Rilzy Adams. Myla's nerves were out of control. Was she really doing this? Could she really do this? She'd almost hightailed her ass out of the bar she and her date decided on before he showed up. “Myla?” She followed the sound of her name, tilting her head up to the man standing next to her bar stool. She almost melted in relief before anxiety settled on her stomach. Her best friend, Rihanna, had spent hours telling Myla about her misadventures with online dating. Myla had worried she might be catfished because Rihanna made it seem like that was all that happened. The man definitely looked like he did in the photos. He had the same warm, brown skin, shaved head, well-shaped beard and friendly smile.
Kenrya: There was one problem though. Most of his pictures were selfies or of him sitting his ass somewhere. So Myla had not expected him to be so big. She slid off the stool and welcomed him with a hug that had her feeling like a doll in his firm embrace. She stole a glance at his feet and blanched when she realized they were as big as the rest of him. The rest of him. The purpose of the meet-up slammed into Myla as she tried but failed to get a decent look at his printout in the dark blue jeans he wore. The conversation flowed nicely over drinks, so Myla pushed away her worries about the rest of the night in favor of enjoying his funny stories and dry sense of humor.
Kenrya: There was only so much conversation and cocktails they could have before the bartender started asking for the last orders, and they got to the part of the night that had Myla ready to hyperventilate. Was she really doing this? Could she really do this? And could she do this with him? Myla laughed drily, as she wasn't sure she had anything in her sexual arsenal, real or imagined to prepare her for this. "Let me just run to the restroom," she said, when she started entertaining thoughts of ending the date with a firm handshake before hightailing her ass back to the hotel room that she booked for the purpose of fucking someone who wasn't Donald alone. "No problem, I'll settle the bill."
Kenrya: She left him reaching into his pocket for his wallet, and took another glance at his massive-ass feet before she moved as quickly as her legs would take her to the bathroom. She had her phone out and ringing Rihanna before the door even closed. "Was it that bad?" Her friend said by way of introduction. "Wait, what? No. He's nice. No creepy vibes, and honestly hot as hell." "So why are you calling me before sunrise?" "I think he's got a huge-ass dick." Rihanna laughed, "I'm not sure I see your problem." "I don't have experience with huge-ass dicks." She could hear Rihanna shuffling around, and Myla wondered if she'd actually woken her best friend up. "You don't really have experience with dicks point blank," Rihanna observed, "Come on, you must've known that reindeers don't all have the same size antlers."
Kenrya: Rihanna broke into uncontrollable laughter the way she usually did whenever she teased Myla about calling her little adventure Operation Ride a Reindeer instead of something normal like Myla Gets Some Dick. "Can you have fun at my expense later, bitch? I'm freaking the hell out right now." Her friend took her time getting herself together. Once the laughter stopped and she caught her breath, Rihanna said, "Our pussies are equipped to handle big-headed babies. No worries, you can handle that dick. And don't call me back until you've fucked him." Rihanna disconnected the call before Myla could say anything else, leaving her standing in the bathroom, fighting the urge to run a mile, "Don't forget to Ho! Ho! Ho!"
Kenrya: The unbidden memory of the bartender she spent hours hatching her insane plan with floated through her mind, just as her resolve started wavering. She washed her face and took a deep breath. Okay, calm down, she urged herself, and go handle that dick. "You good?" The sound Myla made in her throat was noncommittal, but her date didn't seem too pressed about it. He was too busy telling her he had a great time, and hoped they would meet up again. It took him helping her into her coat and offering to get her an Uber before Myla realized that this man didn't come with the expectation of entitlement to get his dick wet. She had to peel Donald off of her after their first date, since he was as enthusiastic as a dog humping his owner's leg. But there was no such desperation from this man.
Kenrya: Wait, was it that he didn't find her attractive? Has she misread the signals she thought he'd been sending all night? Shit. Myla had never propositioned a man before. She couldn't even lean up and kiss him because he towered over her, even though she was damn near 5'7". "I got a room at the Hilton," she began, tripping over her words, "I'm not sure if you want to come back for a drink or something?" His dimples came out to play when he smiled, and suddenly her pussy was just as insistent as Rihanna that she go handle that dick. Or, at least, die trying. He caught his bottom lip between his teeth, and Myla flushed hot, imagining him doing the same to her nipples. "I could use a drink." He kept his hands to himself during the short walk to the hotel and sat on the bed, even as she poured a mini bottle of whiskey on ice for him.
Kenrya: He was waiting, she realized. Waiting for her to get comfortable, waiting for her to make the first move. But Myla was starting to wonder if she could. He shot back the whiskey in one go, and placed the tumbler on the nightstand before crooking his index finger toward her. "Come here," he said, patting his lap so that there was no misunderstanding his intention. Myla took a deep breath and steadied herself. He grabbed her when she was close enough to him, his fingers dug into her ass through the dress she wore, sending rivulets of pleasure shooting through her. He angled her so her crotch landed straight against his hard dick, and she made a small, startled cry in her throat.
Kenrya: Myla wasn't sure she believed the whole shoe size, dick size correlation theory. But it was spot on in his case. She could feel the panic creeping in, but he thrust his hips so his heavy dick pressed further against her pussy. She moaned, feeling her pussy moisten. Myla licked her lips and angled her head so he could press his mouth to hers as he rocked his dick against her pussy again, and then again, and again. The attraction that had been steadily building between them all night exploded, and suddenly everything was a frenzy. The urgency with which she grinded herself against his rock-hard dick, a frenzy. His teeth grazing across her neck and fingers, digging hard into her ass cheeks, a frenzy. The wetness pooling between her thighs, a frenzy.
Kenrya: She was high on anticipation when he helped her out the dress and dropped to her knees, parting her thighs before diving face first between her legs, and running his tongue along her slit before capturing his clit in her mouth and sucking. She jerked against him, a wanton scream ripping from her throat as she succumbed to the spine-tingling pleasure of his tongue, expertly working her over, paused. Myla would later reflect on how Donald wouldn't be dead eating her out like that. He fussed so much about eating her out at all that she generally left him alone. But she couldn't think about it then, not when this sexy-ass man dipped his tongue in and out of her pussy before he replaced it with a finger, and then two, and then three.
Kenrya: She was grinding against his face when the orgasm pummel into her. It took a few minutes before she came back to earth, panting hard and overcome with lust. She forgot she was ever anxious about another man touching her, and she forgot she'd been worried about the size of his dick when he started undressing. His boxers fell to the floor, finally revealing what had been hiding there. Fuck. His dick throbbed as if it could feel her staring at it. She couldn't move her eyes as he rolled on the condom he'd taken from his wallet. She peeped the packaging and couldn't stop the smirk from spreading across her face. He definitely was the market for Magnum XLs. "You good?" He asked, when he finally joined her on the bed. He hovered over her, bracing his weight on his forearms as he nibbled on her ear lobes while he waited for her answer.
Kenrya: Was she good? Well she was hornier than she'd ever been in her life, and anxious about him trying to fit his super-size dick in her, but it only took a few seconds to realize that she was good. In fact, she felt better than she had in a long-ass time. She felt freer than she had in a long-ass time. She was more excited than she'd been in a long-ass time. "I'm great," she said with a smile as his mouth found hers. She was trying to think of how she would handle that dick when he nudged his head against her entrance. But her pussy stretched, eagerly and happily, to accommodate him as he slid inside. And then, Myla couldn't think of anything at all.
Erica: So, Killa, give us the good old one-two, the rundown, the synopsis, the nitty gritty, the dirt.
Kenrya: Yes. So in this short, which yes, is set in Christmas. We was like, why do we have to wait till December to run some shit that we like?
Kenrya: So, it's now.
Erica: Sex is evergreen.
Kenrya: Exactly. Our main character is getting a divorce, or just finished?
Erica: She just signed, she just finished it.
Kenrya: Yes. So she's at a bar, and talking to the very cute bartender, and basically recounting all the things that she wishes that she hadn't done, and all the things that she wants to do. One of the things that she wishes that she hadn't done is married the first person who she fucked. One of the things that she wants to do, or the main thing, is fuck a whole bunch of people so she can find out what it is that she actually likes.
Erica: Test them dicks.
Kenrya: Exactly. So she's telling the bartender, she's feeling a little bit of a vibe, but they don't take it no further than him just being a really good listener while she pours out her heart over her drinks that he keeps coming. Then we jump to a year later, and they meet up again.
Kenrya: Dot dot dot.
Erica: And also what happens in between.
Kenrya: So in that year, she does exactly what she says she's going to do. I think she calls the men reindeer, so she wants to fuck with all of Santa's reindeer. So she does. So when she meets back up with him by chance while they were Christmas shopping, it's a year later, and he's like, "Yo, you've got to tell me all the stories of what you did in the past year. Are you counting the reindeer?"
Erica: [crosstalk 00:13:04].
Kenrya: So they go sit down, and she tells him all of the stories. So each chapter in the book is her telling the story of having sex with these various dudes. Then—how much do we tell?
Erica: Dot dot dot.
Kenrya: Do we leave it there? There's some attraction there, and then you see what happens.
Erica: Yes. Okay. To me, the biggest theme in this story was virginity.
Erica: I like how Rilzy wrote about it. I think that she wrote, like how virginity is, I don't know. People are like, "Virginity is a construct, right?" Just, it's your first time having sex.
Kenrya: Yeah. We hold it up as this precious, I don't know.
Kenrya: I did.
Erica: Precious flower.
Kenrya: Yeah. Oh, flower.
Erica: And there was something, there was a line in the first chapter where she said, Myla said, that she revered her virginity and her ex-husband fetishized it. And I thought that was so interesting. Because I think, on one hand, girls are taught your virginity is something so special and save it. And then you got these lecherous motherfuckers on the other side talking about, "I want to be the first to take it." You know?
Kenrya: It's just so nasty.
Erica: Interestingly enough, I've talked to ... What'd you say?
Kenrya: It just feels really icky to me.
Kenrya: And lecherous. I don't like it.
Erica: At all.
Kenrya: At all. Yeah.
Erica: But it's interesting that she talks about it like that, because she can look back and say, "Hey, this is what was put in me and what I thought made it special and important." Which then resulted in her falling in love and marrying the first motherfucker that walked by.
Erica: You know, that didn't have a problem with it.
Kenrya: That fell into her, yeah.
Erica: Because she mentioned, some dudes was like, "I'm good." And actually I've talked to guys who are hesitant to date virgins, at our age, at our big age. Just because they're like, "Yo, I don't want to be that special."
Kenrya: I mean, I have to imagine that if you have been saving it, waiting for the right person, whatever it is, right, that gets you to this age and having not had sex, that for some people, at least, there is a whole lot that is built into that. And yeah, if you get to the point where you trust somebody enough to actually go down that road, if they turn out to not be who you want them to be, or who they portray themselves to be, which we know happens all the fucking time.
Erica: All the fucking time. Unfortunately, it's par for the course.
Kenrya: That could be devastating. Yeah, yeah. But I can imagine it being that much more built up if it came attached to this thing that you have been waiting to do for literally decades.
Erica: Yeah. No.
Erica: We actually recently talked to an author, and she was talking about her virginity and was like, "Look, it was special to me just because I wanted to make sure that I had a good time."
Erica: That, I appreciate. The idea of your flower is precious, and it can't be spoiled, it has to be touched by the right person, that makes it a little like Lord of the Rings-ish, right?
Kenrya: It's interesting, right? Yes, yes. It feels very much like “my precious.” But also it's like, okay, you have these children who you are hoping will not just throw their pussy into the wind, or whatever part they got into the wind. So we haven't gotten to that point in this house in terms of conversations, and it's making me think about how do I frame that? Right now, all we talk about is masturbation, it's yours. And we talk about agency, nobody else should touch it. We haven't gotten to the point of, when you decide you want to share this pleasure, I guess I have to hope that the lessons I'm giving her kind of ladder up to that, right? In terms of who gets to touch you. All the lessons that we talk about around boundaries, all of that stuff goes into interpersonal relationships and who you choose to let into your space, I guess is where it goes.
Kenrya: I can't imagine myself saying, "Hey, that's your flower and it's precious." But I also want her to understand that it has value just like the rest of her.
Erica: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to a young person who recently lost her virginity. Well, who recently had sex for the first time. She comes from a very sex-positive family. And well, let me take that back. Not that she doesn't come from a sex positive family, but her family, her parents are very like, "Look, you're an adult, adults do things, this is sex, yada yada yada." But also she had the whole society, church. She had sex for the first time with a guy that wasn't her forever love. And she really got down on herself.
Erica: I'm like, "Yo, it's okay. Did you enjoy yourself? Were you protected?" Let's focus on that. The fact that, I'd rather you have sex for the first time with someone that you're like, "I just really want to have sex with this person." And not build it up like, "We had sex because this is my future husband." Because then, that's really setting yourself up for something.
Kenrya: Yeah, that freaks me out.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I was trying to talk to her, and explain.
Kenrya: Imagine if you had married the first person you had sex with.
Erica: The first.
Kenrya: Rock biter?
Erica: No, rock biter was the first person that kissed me.
Kenrya: The first kiss, yes.
Erica: I couldn't even say that boy's name, he played an instrument in the band. I couldn't even say if he was a percussionist, or a trumpet, trombone player or something. We're getting off, no no, no, no, no. Yeah. So just, I felt bad. To me, I was just like ... Because it's one of those situations where, it's not like it's special. But at the same time, this is your first time having sex, I want you to enjoy it or have a positive experience, not be riddled with this guilt. Like you did something wrong, or y'all did something wrong, you know?
Erica: This woman I was talking to, we were talking about the sex ed program, we're talking about setting rates. She said, "Sex and money are the two things that if you don't have enough of, something's wrong, and if you have too much of it, something's wrong." I was like, "Oh my goodness." Yeah. But there's never a just right, you know? Is there some world scale of how much money is just enough, or how much sex is just enough?
Kenrya: Too much in the terms of capitalism is bad, and if you're a billionaire, bitch give some of your money away?
Erica: Yeah. Don't be a Jeff Bezos. But also don't be a ...
Kenrya: Okay. But what's the equivalent in sex? Addiction?
Erica: Being a whore.
Kenrya: What's wrong with that?
Erica: Exactly, right? I mean, it's just people say, you know?
Kenrya: Yeah. Because I'm like, what's the ...
Erica: I don't think anything's wrong with having a whole bunch of money.
Erica: I want to be rich.
Kenrya: I want to be rich, but I don't think billionaires should exist.
Kenrya: We can agree to disagree.
Erica: Bitch, we can agree to disagree.
Kenrya: I just think that the system is broken when you have people who are hoarding wealth, and who are shitty to the people who they employ. And when you have folks who have to be on assistance and have jobs to be able to survive when the people who own those companies are literally on some Scrooge McDuck shit.
Erica: I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying, this is not a matter for us to disagree or not disagree. Because I ain't going to get to that point so you don't need to worry about me being faced with such a moral dilemma.
Kenrya: You don't know.
Erica: Well if I do, we'll revisit it, okay?
Erica: But right now, I'm not swimming in gold coins in my basement. But yeah, it's like that. You don't want to have somebody that's like, "I'm out fucking the world." This is not me, but this is them, they say. You don't want people to be out having sex with everybody, and you also don't want people having too much money. Because then it's like, "Oh my God, you've got too much money, what are you doing with it?" I'm thinking, not in a Jeff Bezos sense, but in the my cousin bought a yacht type, you know? Or she got a real nice car, she could be driving a Honda and give her cousin some, that kind of shit.
Kenrya: Lord, it's a prime example. I always tell my partner, the whole Karen whatever. I describe that as white people minding other peoples' business. This is like the prime example of folks minding other folks' business. Mind your fucking business.
Erica: Mind your motherfucking business, and not mine. Stay out of my puss, you know?
Kenrya: Yes, yes. That's a song, it's none of your business. Episode title.
Erica: If I want to take a guy home with me tonight, it's none of your business.
Kenrya: Home with me tonight, it's none of your business. And if she want to be a freak and sell it on the weekend.
Erica: Okay. Episode title. Yeah. I just think the whole idea of virginity ... Because if you think about it, everyone talks about this virginity thing. But there are so many fucking downsides to this one thing. Like there's so many downsides to, "I lost my virginity to him." Then there's like, he could be a dick, he could fetishize it. There's so much wrapped up into it. And it's like, nigga, what is the good of it? Other than controlling women and telling them.
Erica: You know?
Kenrya: Yeah. When we frame it that way, it's just like, I really like the way that you reframed that language when you're talking about the person who you had that conversation with. It's not that you lost this thing, it's that you had sex for the first time. Which puts it on par with having sex for the 36th time. It is an experience that you have. And that's it, right?
Kenrya: You try to maximize it. You should be, I hope. Of course, that's what we hope everybody who's listening to this show is doing, is trying to maximize their experiences and have the best possible safest time that they can have, and that should be it.
Erica: Yeah. But it ain't a first time, God damn, Okay.
Kenrya: [inaudible 00:25:03].
Erica: So Myla also mentioned, in passing, but it stood out in my head, that she said that she was faking orgasms with her partner. It was like, she mentioned it in passing in the first paragraph. But yeah, it was one of those, "I was faking it just to not hurt his feelings." Or something like that.
Erica: I'll be honest. I used to fake it.
Erica: To not hurt peoples' feelings, to get it over with.
Erica: But I've learned that sex is so much better if you're just quiet until he does it right. You've got to earn this squirm. Not that I'm completely silent. But I mean, I will guide and give direction. But I think that once I've lost the idea of trying to help please them, and make them feel better about themselves, it was like, oh.
Kenrya: They're having sex, they feel great about themselves.
Erica: Because then they're going to just keep doing what they're doing, thinking that it's good. It's like, no.
Kenrya: It's just, I always say, you teach people how to treat you, and the same thing goes for sex.
Erica: Teaching them how to please you.
Kenrya: I've never faked it. And more than once, I've told a nigga to get off me.
Erica: Get off of me, get off, get off, get off.
Kenrya: Listen, I'm not going to tell you that you're doing, that you're pleasuring me and you're not. Because then you're going to think that you should just do that again.
Erica: You're doing it. And honestly ...
Kenrya: And then that's what we're doing, and no thank you.
Kenrya: I'd rather not.
Erica: And not even on some, they're bad people. It's just like, "Okay, she liked this, I'm going to keep going."
Kenrya: That doesn't work for me.
Kenrya: Right. That's actually them being perceptive and receptive. If you moan when they touch you here, even though that shit don't feel good to you, if he's paying attention and tuned in he's going to say, "Okay, she likes when I touch this part this way, I'm going to do it again." So you're teaching them to pleasure you incorrectly.
Erica: The wrong thing.
Kenrya: Nah, yeah, I've never faked it. I have literally said, "Hey, you should just finish." I've said, "Hey, you should get up off me, right now."
Erica: I think it was when I was much younger. It was when I was much younger and sex, it was less about me, and more about what we were doing together. You know? Which it can be. But I'm fucking because I want to fuck.
Kenrya: Yeah. It just made me sad because it was like, not only is she having sex with this person and it's like the only person she's ever had sex with, so she's had nothing to compare it to. But also she knows it's bad, because she's not getting where she wants to get to.
Erica: Exactly. It'd be different if she was like, "Hey, I didn't know all these colors existed." But she's like, "I know there's some colors, I just ain't getting it."
Kenrya: Yeah. Which yeah, that made me feel bad. Also it brings me back to this idea of this person who wants to be the person to take something from you. Just it immediately puts me in a fucking narcissist head space, of I want to be the only one. I want you to think that this is all that there is, right? I am the only story that you get to tell. You can never know if my dick game is shitty because you don't have anything to compare it to. This is why I seek out ... It's like this predator, it makes my skin crawl. Clearly.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. This is why my biggest thing as a sex educator is, I feel like women end up loving the sex they're given and not the sex that they explore or learn to love.
Kenrya: Yeah. Or if they're lucky, right? Because they might also just hate the sex that they're given. Like Myla.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I talk to women that are like, "Yeah, I like it from the back." It's like, "Yeah, out of the six partners you had, two of them did it really well from the back." But let's try it, let's explore, let's see what else is out there. Because you might find something that you realize, "Hey, I like." You know? Some things you can just look at and be like, "You know what? I see water sports, I'm not into water sports."
Erica: That's not my niche.
Erica: But I think that we don't get the opportunity to explore. In my mind, a nigga putting his finger in my butthole freaked me out, until that shit happened.
Kenrya: I was going to say ...
Erica: And I was like, "I'll be your little bowling ball."
Kenrya: Don't knock it till you try it.
Erica: Don't knock it till you try it. Yeah. I just think it's so important for us to explore. Do homosexual people have the same hangups about virginity as heteros?
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't know. I can't speak for the queer community. But I feel like we're all socialized to think that sexual contact with other people is, first we're taught that it's dirty, right? We're taught that it's dangerous. We talked about this, I think, on an episode with Jasmine, where we had this conversation about the ways that sex education is taught. It was somebody else, too, that sex education is taught in schools. It's all framed around, hey, you can get sick, and hey don't let anybody touch you. Like that's the way sex ed is taught in this country. I think that that is that beginning seed of that, shit, even going back before that when people are told not to touch themselves, that that's dirty. I think that there's all these negative associations that are attached to our genitals and to sex and to sexual interaction. I feel like we all get that, no matter how we identify or who we love.
Kenrya: I don't know, but I think it's all the same. I think we all get told. Then they've got the added stigma of the fact that you're taught that you're not supposed to like somebody that's not of the opposite sex. I feel like it's even fucking worse.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I just hope that we haven't gotten there yet, except my child is in health class. I was like, "If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you." He's like, "I ain't talking about that with you." In his mind he said, "I ain't talking about that shit with you." But he didn't say that out loud to me.
Kenrya: Shit so I think we had our first class about that in the fourth grade, when I was a kid. Damn, it's about that time.
Erica: See, it's supposed to be fifth grade here.
Erica: But then 'Rona.
Erica: So they're doing it in the sixth grade for the kids.
Kenrya: Okay, cool.
Erica: It's more about health. It's about health, but then this is a part of it, because they made you sign some waiver or something. I said, "So what are they talking about in class?" He said, "Wear deodorant." I'm like, "Well I'm glad they're covering that, too."
Kenrya: Good, because y'all stink.
Erica: I'd rather you have lots of discussion around that. Because baby ... yeah. Okay. Our main character, Myla, met this guy. He wasn't put off by her being a virgin, so he became her man. She married him. She found out he was cheating on her. And he gave her chlamydia.
Kenrya: Motherfucker, motherfucker.
Erica: You know what? This reminds me of ...
Kenrya: That happened to me in college.
Erica: We don't get to that. Because yeah, it's one of those things where I remember when I was married, and we were really trying to get pregnant, and I couldn't get pregnant. I just completely remember being like, "But I did everything right." No, and I can only imagine her being like, "I did everything right, I waited till I lost my virginity, and now, this is what happened." I just think, again, this is why this fucking virginity construct just fucking sucks. But yeah, so he cheated on her, gave her a STD. Every time I see save the dates, I think of STD. But yeah, so he gave her an STD. Would you like to share your story?
Kenrya: Sure. In college, fucking around with this dude, we were together. But it was definitely a very on and off for a couple of years in college situation. During one of our breaks, we were still friends, so it wasn't exactly cheating, but also it was lying. He said that he wanted to have sex with his best friend. We weren't together, technically, at this point. We talked about it. This was a person who I had always felt like they had an inappropriate relationship for someone who was in a relationship. And this was very much the beginning of the end. I was like, all right, well we ain't together, whatever. So he went and had sex with her, came back, we ended up getting back together. He had swore up and down that he used condoms, everything else.
Kenrya: Guess who goes in for her annual checkup, wasn't having any symptoms or anything. Just went in for my checkup, and they're like, "You have chlamydia." And I'm like, "What the fuck?" He's the only person I had sex with. He had sworn that he had used condoms with this person. I was dumb enough to believe him. When I said something to him about it he was like, "Well she was a virgin." I was like, "Nigga, she lied to you and you lying to me." I was like, "I could've ended up with pelvic inflammatory disease and been infertile." I had literally no idea. Thank God I regularly get checked for everything.
Erica: Were doing regular checkups and stuff.
Kenrya: Exactly. Because otherwise, I had no symptoms, I would not have known.
Kenrya: So yeah. It wasn't exactly cheating, but it was a lot of lying.
Erica: So you know, I think about two situations. Actually it was with the same guy. But not necessarily an STD, but my health was really fucking bad because of that relationship.
Kenrya: It was.
Erica: I kept getting recurring BV. In my mind it was just like, his sperm throws off my vagina. No, this nigga was sticking his dick in every goddamn thing. Bringing back, you know? Like no, my pussy don't mix with hers, that's what it is.
Kenrya: Yeah, he's throwing your pH off with other pussy.
Erica: Exactly so it was that. Then remember when I had those cysts?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: I totally forgot about it until, as I was working on this. I used to have these, everybody, well not everybody, people with vaginas and vulvas have what are called Bartholin's cysts. These cysts secrete fluids, part of what makes you wet, all of that. I said Bartholin cysts? They're Bartholin glands. I remember one day, I was in this relationship and it was bad relationship.
Erica: On one hand, I want to say I don't want to go as far as saying it was emotionally abusive. But I'll say that.
Kenrya: He was emotionally abusive. He was a fucking asshole.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: Everybody, we just called it as him being an asshole, but he was emotionally abusive.
Kenrya: And he was an asshole to everybody. I hated him. Sorry. I still feel strongly about that.
Erica: I appreciate it. Get you a best friend that hold a grudge better than you do. Okay, I remember, I don't know what, I think we were about to go out of town, it was something was really high stress. We had sex, and I felt like this bump, lump, something down in my vagina. Way down yonder in my pussy hole.
Erica: So I went to the doctor, and she was like, "Yeah, you have a cyst in this Bartholin gland. Sometimes it happens to women, we are going to lance it, drain it, it'll heal, you'll be fine." That shit was like a constant recurrence in my life, for probably about six months to a year, probably maybe even a little longer than that. It was to the point where literally, I was going to the doctor like every two, three months. It was literally a cyst the size of a fucking golf ball in your vagina. It gets so big, it pushes everything else to the side and be hanging out like ... Then it's like, it's a cyst so it's tender and sore, and you can't sit down.
Kenrya: And you have to use the ice packs.
Erica: You've got to wear ...
Kenrya: I remember we discovered that the ones that they give you after you have a baby were perfect.
Kenrya: Because you took all the ones from my house.
Erica: Then when you get it lanced, pretty much they lance it open, then I just had to sit on a fucking pee pad for days.
Kenrya: And like drain, yeah.
Erica: It was the fucking worse. The culmination of it all was, I had to get this surgery. Essentially what they do is cut it open, flip it back, and stitch it open so that it constantly drains. Hello. And then, I don't know if the surgery worked or if the relationship ended, and a bitch got better. But yeah, it was one of those things where I went through so much physical shit from being in this horrible fucking relationship, thinking it was just like ... No, bitch, your body is telling you in every goddamn way possible that this ain't where the fuck you need to be.
Kenrya: Right, body keeps score.
Erica: Right? It's crazy.
Kenrya: It always knows, it always knows. Even when you don't.
Erica: The body keeps the score.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's true.
Kenrya: That's true.
Erica: That was disgusting. I've had relationships where nigga lied and I got burnt.
Kenrya: Which is unfortunately, fucking common.
Erica: Too common and not talked about, right?
Kenrya: Yeah. That's happened to me three times. It also is like, okay. Because you think you're at a point where you can be having safe sex with someone, and not have to worry about that. But you know, niggas lie.
Erica: You're really just taking a chance.
Kenrya: You are.
Erica: So yeah.
Kenrya: A fucking gamble.
Erica: What'd you say?
Kenrya: It's a fucking gamble.
Erica: Yes, like the Tik Tok dance.
Kenrya: I don't know what that is.
Erica: The kids do this.
Kenrya: Do they?
Erica: You a hating-ass hater.
Kenrya: Listen, I don't even know. I don't even know. I feel like if your niece was here though, she would laugh at you.
Erica: Yeah. Hoe phase, post-divorce hoe phase. Our heroine, our main character, she realized she missed out on a lot of shit while she was married. So she said, you know what? I'm going to sample the delights of the world. I'm going to go and sew my royal oats. It made me think about post-divorce rituals, or post-trauma rituals. You know, how you come out of something and then you're like, "This is what I'm going to do."
Kenrya: Like when they cut off they dreads?
Erica: What'd you say?
Kenrya: When they cut they dreads, or they cut their hair.
Erica: Oh my gosh. Yep.
Erica: Again, “Waiting to Exhale,” I didn't understand. I liked the movie as a kid. But now that I'm an adult, nigga I love that movie.
Kenrya: I should watch it again. I mean, I know all the words, I watched it so many times as a kid.
Erica: Watch it as an adult.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:42:41].
Erica: It's going to hit different, as the kids say.
Kenrya: I say, "You raggedy bitch." At least every other week.
Erica: You raggedy bitch. You leather wearing in the summertime motherfucker. Me and my little sister used to say that about one of my aunt's boyfriends. Was it the same one that we cussed out and I sent you the video?
Kenrya: The other day? Yeah.
Erica: On the screenshots? I think it was. It was.
Kenrya: “You say niggas don't know how to treat you.” That's my shit. That movie.
Erica: Yeah. Of course, there is the ... But even think about, remember when the Deltas before us crossed, and then everybody cut their hair? Not everybody, but so many on their line cut their hair?
Kenrya: A lot of them cut their hair.
Erica: And they were like, "Did they do something?" Yeah. I found that.
Erica: But I cut my hair, coming out of my marriage. I think when I cut my hair, it was a sign to my ex-husband that like, this bitch is gone. She for the streets.
Kenrya: He said something in your therapy session, like, “Really, bitch?”
Erica: And she cut her hair. I was like, I'm a bad bitch, bad bitches cut their hair. But yeah, because to me, cutting my hair short was very much when I most felt myself.
Kenrya: Like yourself, yeah. For us it was like, "Oh Erica's back."
Erica: Iconic. Then it was just like, oh she's back. Yeah. When I cut it I was just like, "Yo, I'm ready for ..." I didn't even think of it that way, as like a start. But yeah, it was definitely an, "All right."
Kenrya: I mean, why did you grow your hair out?
Erica: For a nigga.
Erica: Because the nigga said he liked my hair. Yeah. I'd started letting my hair grow out because I was with a dude and he was like ... Same fucking relationship. But yeah, "You should let your hair grow, you should let your hair grow." So I did, thinking I'd fucking please this motherfucker.
Kenrya: You should suck my dick, fuck you.
Erica: I just fucking, the disdain you have is just ... Yeah. Then it was a thing. But no, this is Erica. Even now, as I try to let it grow out, see I have a little shangle dangle right there, hold on, right there.
Kenrya: I see. I see.
Erica: She's like, "Biracial girl. Biracial."
Kenrya: Oh my gosh.
Erica: But yeah, even as I let it grow out, it's only going to get to a certain point, then this is firmly Erica. I'll be that snazzy old aunt, driving her Thunderbird T-top, with her Benson and Hedges, and I might buy myself a cigarette pack. I don't think I'm going to put cigarettes in it, maybe change. But you get what I'm saying.
Kenrya: But it's a cute little, like a little purse that buy. Like a coin purse.
Erica: Definitely A's aesthetic. Fast auntie aesthetic. Now I got the long nails with the rounded tip, not a coffin. Okay yeah, so it made me think about just post-divorce, post trauma rituals, things that we do. I think, we always talk about a hoe phase. Everybody has to go through their hoe phase. Some people aren't meant for hoe phases. I don't think, did you ever have a hoe phase?
Kenrya: Yes I did.
Erica: Your hoe phase you were kissing a lot of boys.
Kenrya: No, bitch.
Erica: My hoe phase, I was having threesomes.
Kenrya: No ma'am, no ma'am. Okay well yes, our hoe phases were different. My hoe phase was after my ex died.
Erica: That was a wild motherfucking time.
Erica: Yes. Yeah. That was a wild time.
Kenrya: Yeah. There was a lot happening. I sewed all the oats in that time.
Erica: All the oats in New York City were sewn. We just going to call you Mrs. Quaker.
Kenrya: And other cities, and other countries.
Erica: Oh God.
Kenrya: Yes, it was a time.
Erica: It was a time.
Kenrya: It was a time.
Erica: What a time to be alive.
Kenrya: Yeah. But before that, I had never felt like it was something that I needed to do. I definitely thought that a hoe phase wasn't a thing that I needed. But I had gotten to a point where I was like, "I don't ever want to be in a relationship again, so I'm just going to be out here fucking these."
Erica: You know, yeah, I think all people go through that. Especially people just coming out of a divorce, they're like, "I'm never getting married again." If I'd known for sure when I got divorced, while I was married I was like, "This shit don't work. I'm done." Right? Then coming out of my marriage I was like, "I'd just rather be the auntie with Mr. Clarence who lives around the corner, and come spend the night. But he got his own place, and auntie got her own place." I think I told you about this, I went to a lunch, to a brunch with a bunch of women who had been married, divorced, and were on their second marriages.
Kenrya: Yeah, totally. Yeah.
Erica: They were like, this shit is pretty damn perfect. Because they were like, "I built this to be exactly what I want it to be, you know?"
Kenrya: You were intentional about creating what you want.
Erica: Yeah. That's the part I look forward to in finding my forever partner, for that shit to be like, good.
Erica: But until then, this pussy's for the streets.
Kenrya: I definitely went through a period where I was like, "I'm good, I'm good." Then I was like, "Dip my toe into dating." Then it was terrible. Then therapy and everything else. And now, fuck. I have so much joy. I don't even want to imagine ...
Erica: But you didn't think that it was possible to get this much joy from a relationship.
Kenrya: I had never experienced this before. Yeah. Well I have a lot of joy in general, but the relationship is a contributing factor, as opposed to something that's dragging my shit down, which is what it used to be.
Erica: Yeah. It's like adding salt. It adds salt to your life. Everything's there, but it just makes you taste it, everything else so much better.
Erica: Yeah. Here Erica go with her food-ass analogies.
Kenrya: Food is delicious.
Erica: I was talking to this chick, one of my breasties. She was like, "All you do is eat." I said, "Yeah." She was like, "I didn't realize that." She said, "I knew you liked to eat when you were talking about, you prefer to have an early morning surgery." Then she was like, "Yeah, I like morning surgeries because the doctor's fresh." I'm like, "No, I don't want to have to wait all day to eat."
Kenrya: You've got to be NPO all day.
Erica: She was like, "You hungry ass. All you do is fucking eat." I was like, "Yeah, girl."
Kenrya: I think that's a good reason, though. Because you're fucking NPO from midnight. Yeah, no, let me get this over with so I can eat.
Erica: Yeah. I come out of surgeries like, "Food."
Kenrya: You do. So we always make sure we coordinate so your ass can eat as soon as you get out.
Erica: Yeah. One time, because you know I have a wheat allergy. So one time I was coming out, and they're like, "You have wheat allergy on your thing, we can't give you these crackers."
Kenrya: Them fucking crackers, you said.
Erica: Bitch you going to give me the motherfucking crackers, or we going to be here fighting, I'm going to flip something. I'm like, crackers and cold apple juice. Okay. So we have a hoe phase, we have cutting hair. What other post-trauma, post-divorce rituals?
Kenrya: I think folks go on trips, like girls’ trips kind of a thing.
Erica: Yep. I'm doing my Eat Pray Love.
Kenrya: Exactly. I don't know. What else do people do?
Erica: Jump into shitty relationships.
Kenrya: A friend of a friend did that, and then I got a text saying that it was over and I cheered.
Kenrya: Yeah. I was so very glad to hear that.
Erica: I think when I first started dating post-divorce, I did meet some nice guys. Some were kind of weird, but I did meet some nice guys. I remember being very clear about the fact that girl, this shit ain't going to last. Not, I knew it had an expiration date. But I knew this shit wasn't going to last. Because I was like, "Bitch you going through some shit. This ain't going to be the same." So yeah. Haircut, and trying to think if there's anything else, anything interesting that I've heard about.
Kenrya: I remember going back into my wardrobe and pulling out the color. I hadn't realized how drab, you know what I mean?
Kenrya: Here we are, call me Kenrya 2.0. I just started dressing again, and wearing lipstick. I hadn't been wearing makeup. I mean I never wear anything but lipstick, but I hadn't been doing any of those things. I very much was like, "I'm still this person."
Kenrya: I don't have to be ... So I pulled out all my lips, and pulled out the clothes I loved, and got back to myself in a lot of ways.
Erica: Because I think that there's a point where you want to connect with that person that you were. But then you've also got to match up with that person that's learned so much from this situation. Then that makes you Kenrya 2.0, or Thick and Juicy 2.0.
Kenrya: Yes. Spoke that shit into existence.
Erica: I did. So when I was in college, I was rail thin. I had abs. I was like a stick. And the running joke among all my friends was that I was thick and juicy. I'd call myself thick and juicy, I'd get drunk, I go out, I meet men. What's your name? Thick and Juicy. They was like, "What?"
Kenrya: There was no thickness, there was no juice.
Erica: One of my linesisters used to call me Thin and Dry. She's like, "Okay, Thin and Dry." Yeah.
Kenrya: You got your grown woman weight, you spoke that shit into existence.
Erica: I spoke that shit into existence.
Kenrya: Got an ass you ain't have.
Erica: Now, I got a wagon that I'm dragging. Cheaters. Have you ever cheated? Or do you want to plead the fifth?
Kenrya: Yeah, no, I cheated once.
Kenrya: I did. Story. So I was in a long distance relationship, and the guy was in law school. You know him well. It was the end of his freshman year. You know in law school, they only ... Are you serious? You can't think of who this person is?
Erica: Keep talking, keep talking.
Kenrya: Lord have mercy. They only have exams at the end of the year.
Erica: Is that the one with the white girl?
Kenrya: Who is that? Just think about it. So I went to go visit across the country for just a regular visit. And I remember the moment when I decided I was done, he was talking about, that there was some book he was supposed to have for class, and he was like, "I mean, why I got to buy it if I can just get somebody to give it to me?" I remember in that moment being like, "This nigga's lazy, and he gon be lazy forever." In my mind, in that moment, I decided that this relationship was over. But he was getting ready to go into finals.
Erica: Was this the one that didn't eat pussy?
Erica: Yeah. With the white girl.
Kenrya: Well he did, but he complained about it. No, he's not married to a white girl. I'll tell you later.
Erica: Yeah, we don't have to do it. I was going to tell you to just hold up a sign, but nevermind.
Kenrya: So I fly back to New York. I can't. I fly back to New York and I'm like, "All right, this is over, but I'm going to let him rock and let him finish his finals." I'm like, "I don't want to drop this on him as he's trying to study and prepare. Because you know, I'm a nice person." Meanwhile, there had been somebody who had been sniffing around for quite some time, very much on this, "If I was your nigga, I would never ..." in my ear all the time.
Erica: Niggas is the worst.
Kenrya: I was just like, well, yeah. I was like, in my mind it was over. Yeah. It was wrong, because we were still together. But also I was literally just biding my time until he called and said he was done with his last exam. So I went over to nigga's house, and it was definitely a mid-20's, early 20's, however the fuck old I was situation. There was a lackluster massage. There was a, "You've got to take off your shirt because [crosstalk 00:55:51]."
Erica: [crosstalk 00:55:52].
Kenrya: Yeah. So that was that. I did it. Whatever. Yeah, I kind of felt bad. But honestly, not really. Because in my mind, it was over, and I wasn't doing anything to grow the relationship. I was just waiting. A week later, he was done. Called him up and was like, "This ain't going to work. We ain't the same. We should end this." And he basically was like, "Okay." I was like, "Thank you for making this shit easy. I guess I should've told your raggedy ass a week ago."
Kenrya: Then I went ahead and had this blemish on my record.
Erica: So it's a blemish with an asterisk, okay?
Erica: You know.
Kenrya: Then that was that. That was it. That's my cheating story. That's the one time I ever cheated on anybody. You?
Erica: All right, next?
Erica: I'm not going to say that I'm a cheater. But I will say that I have cheated in the past.
Kenrya: Cheating has happened?
Erica: Yeah. I'm trying to think of a situation that I can tell, that won't leave me. That will keep ... There have been situations in which I've cheated, let me just say that. Most of them have been, the relationship was almost over. And we was just holding on to each other. I think if he found out that I had cheated, he'd be like, "All right, I was, too."
Erica: Not that it makes it any better, because it's still dishonest. I'm not a cheater now. Well, no one is a cheater. I don't cheat now. I'd just rather be like, "Look, this ain't working." But to say that I haven't in the past would be a big-ass lie, don't stand next to me, because I would get struck down by our Lord and Savior. Okay. What'd you say?
Kenrya: Welp. I said, "Welp."
Erica: Well, with that, I think that wraps up this part of the story. This part of the episode. Do you have anything else to add, Kenrya?
Kenrya: No, we've got to go pay some bills right quick.
Erica: Yep, and we'll be back.
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Kenrya: What's turning us on?
Kenrya: Did I get that right that time?
Erica: We're going to talk about ...
Kenrya: What's turning us on.
Erica: No, you didn't do it, okay. Five, six, seven, eight. We're back, and we're going to talk about ...
Kenrya: What's turning us on.
Erica: Okay. We're keeping all that shit in here. Okay. So y'all, today, what's turning us on. Okay. We went to the only and most important HBCU in the world, Howard University, right?
Kenrya: We can't say that.
Erica: So we went to a very important HBCU. The world would be without ...
Kenrya: They're all important.
Erica: The world would be without certain people, certain greats, if it weren't for ...
Erica: ... the mixing pot that is known as Howard University. Anyway, so one of my HU classmates recently started making candles. And in addition to just regular old candles that smell good, she started doing massage candles. I fucking love these. They smell good. You burn them, they make the whole house smell good. You go like this. Well, okay, I learned with massage candles, I used to just do this and dump it on a nigga's back. Ain't supposed to, my bad. Rub it in your hand, you put it, then go like this. And you do a massage. Don't do one of these. I stick my dick in? Okay. Don't do, "Can I stick my dick in?" But this is a really great massage oil. It smells good, it feels good, and it is created by, I'm sorry you can tell I've been using mine, is created by a Black woman.
Erica: So if you want a sexy massage candle, she has a bunch of smells. Flavors.
Erica: A bunch of smells from vanilla to strawberry to come smell like a man, to whatever.
Erica: She ain't got a, you don't call it come smell like a man. But whatever.
Kenrya: I'm like, “What is that smell?”
Erica: But you know, more masculine, earthy tones. So she has a really dope website. She sells the massage candles and also a few other things. But the massage candle's what sent you. So we will include a link in our show notes, if you are interested, and go hit her up.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's what's up.
Erica: All righty. I think that wraps up this week's episode.
Kenrya: We done.
Erica: We out, motherfuckers. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. Ding ding ding ding ding ding.
Kenrya: You're trying to fade it out.
Erica: Bitch, you're not supposed to be talking while I fade it out. Bye y'all. Oh, this is Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making it clap. Ding ding ding ding ding ding.
Erica: Turn it off.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now on your favorite podcast app, and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod, and on Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: Don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.
Erica: You can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch, or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.