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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read Tia William's "Seven Days in June" and talk invisible disabilities, shifting identities, taking up space, generational trauma, parenting kids with more privilege than you, the beauty of Korean spas and the benefits of being young and unattached.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Hey y'all. Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. Just a little note before we get started, today's book handles some pretty intense issues, so this is our official trigger warning. Be good to yourself and your spirit and mind, so if this gets too tough, cut it off, I promise we'll be back kicking it next week as well. With that, we are reading “Seven Days in June,” by the lovely Tia Williams. It was just released in June 2021. Sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, whatever you need and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Seven Days in June” by Tia Williams.
Kenrya: “Go to sleep.” “Can't sleep,” she murmured. “I'm distracted.” “Why?” He turned his head to face her and then their eyes locked in silent conversation. It was also dreamlike. Minutes were melting into each other. Their blinks became slower, the two of them wearing syrupy, satisfied smiles.
Kenrya: Finally, Eva delivered an answer that neither of them believed. “I'm trying to memorize this room, it's good material, maybe it'll show up in a book,” she said yawning full drowsy. “Honestly, as stressful as writing is, I can't imagine not doing it.” “It’s heady, right?” he muttered, eyes focused on her mouth. “Yeah, the power is so good. Making complete strangers laugh, cry, get turned on. It's better than sex.” “Is it though?” “I wouldn't remember actually,” she admitted. “I met the sexual equivalent of rock bottom. It's been ages. You?” “But you're such a filthy writer.” “I have a filthy imagination”, she corrected, and sometimes it's enough she thought, but mostly it's lonely.
Kenrya: CeCe had once diagnosed Eva as touch starved, one of her authors wrote a self-help book about it. When someone went too long without touch, they became hypersensitive to the slightest graze. There was truth to it. Last weekend, Eva had almost had an orgasm when our hairstylist shampooed her and her hairstylist was the grandmother of six. Eva had been consciously avoiding Shane's touch all day. If he so much as brushed up against her, she might explode.
Kenrya: “I'm at rock bottom too,” said Shane, “I've never had sober sex.” Eva gasped, “That long? Why?” Shane didn't know how to answer this. He'd had a lot of sex with too many women in increasingly depraved ways. A lot of it good, most of it a blur, and it was a relief to stop. “Normal, healthy people didn't use sex as opposed to vodka chaser, I just never got around to it,” he said. “I don't miss it,” Eva said with a dismissive flick of her wrist. “Honestly, I'm practically a virgin again, it'll probably hurt.” “I'm so backed up, it'll be over in two seconds.” “Good thing we're not having sex.” “I for one, am relieved,” says Shane with the wolfish smile. Eva giggled into her palm despite herself.
Kenrya: “Why is it still so easy to talk to you?” Shane gazed at her until the glint in his eye faded a bit. “It always was, it's just who we are.” “Do you remember everything,” she whispered, “about us?” It took him a while to answer. “It's funny, the past decade is a blur, but I remember every detail of that week.” “I was hoping I'd romanticized it over the years that we weren't real.” Her words sounded delicate, breakable. There was a quietly hypnotic faint sound of a piano and the incense swirled softly, and then Eva felt a familiar pull. Just like when they were 17, there was no space between them. There was an overwhelming need to get closer, always. Unthinking, Eva slipped her hand into his. Shane squeezed it and then brought her hand to his mouth, pressing a lingering kiss into her palm. She gasped, electricity tearing through her. It was the slightest touch, but she felt it everywhere. Eva had been imprisoned in pain for so long, she'd forgotten how good feeling good was. Her entire body roused and suddenly, she was aware of everything. Her skin, her cells, the bones under her skin. Heart fluttering, core throbbing. Touch-starved.
Kenrya: Shane watched her reaction with lidded eyes. Then he lightly ran his lips along the inside of her wrist. She let out the tiniest whimper, her back arching. It was electric. Breathless and embarrassed by our reaction, she sat up, burying her face in her hands. No. They were in a public space behind an unlocked door. She was a mother! And Shane was a bold-faced name. Where they really fated to get caught dry-humping at an art world pop-up? A welcome sign said no touching. If they got caught, Book Twitter would implode. Audre would fling herself into the East River.
Kenrya: But then she opened her eyes. There was Shane, gazing up at her, looking for all the world like the reckless, irresistible boy he'd once been, but now with experience and grow-man gravitas and a rugged North African surfing scar, and the most fuckable crinkles around his eyes. And nothing mattered. There was no hell she wouldn't risk for this man and he knew it. Come here, he said. Eva straddled him, her hair falling in his face. Shane ran his hands up the back of her thighs and over her ass, and then not gently, he gripped her hips and pulled her down against him. Their lips were inches away from each other. “20 questions,” he whispered. “Go.” “Why'd you really come to see me?” “To ask for the favor.” “Liar.” Shane tossed her over onto her back, pinning her wrists above her head with one hand. Instinctively, her legs drew up, wrapping around his waist. “Why'd you come?” “For you.” Her hips stuttered against his, desperate for friction. “Wanted you.” “You got me,” he rasped, leaving hot, sucking kisses down her throat. “Your turn.”
Kenrya: Eva trembled beneath him. His mouth scrambling her brain. She couldn't ask Shane the obvious questions. Where did you go? Why'd you leave? How could you? Over the years she trained herself not to care about these answers. Besides, this one that wasn't about him, it was about her, so she went for something easier. “Do you ever think of me?” Lightly, he ran his tongue along her neck, up to her ear, nibbling on her lobe. “I never learned how to stop.” “Oh,” she said, and then shakily added, “your turn.” “So did you? Romanticize us?” asked Shane, eyes catching hers. “Or were we real?” “We were real,” she whispered, almost inaudibly. “Then?” He ground himself against her and she moaned. “Yes,” she gasped. “Then, and now.”
Kenrya: Abruptly, Shane freed her wrists and cradled her face. She slid her hands up as back, gripping his shoulders. Slowly, he lowered his face toward hers, then stopped. He dipped down, then paused. He'd been waiting a lifetime to have her like this, buzzing for him, craving him, desperate, and he wanted to savor it. But she let out an impatient groan, digging her nails into his shoulders, and Shane caved. He crashed his mouth into hers, drawing her into a luscious, searing kiss. The delicious shock of it was enough to make Eva freeze, but then she melted into him, lost in the heat of his mouth, the slide of his tongue, the teasing nip of his teeth until she was unable to form a coherent thought beyond, yes and want and Shane, Shane, Shane. He kept at it, kissing her senseless. It went backward in intensity, slowing down to a soft, searing smolder, almost too hot to take. They stopped only to catch their breath.
Kenrya: “One more question,” he said. “We're still playing?” She wet her lips with her tongue. “Yeah,” Shane glanced toward the door, then back down at her. Eyes glinting in the dark wickedly. “Are you still bad?” “Yes,” she said, without thinking, reaching down to palm his dick, huge and hard in his jeans. She rubbed along the length of him, teasing out a low groan. “Are you?” “Yeah,” he said, pushing her dress up and slipping off her strapless bra. Dipping down, he ran his soft, hot mouth along the swell of her breast, his teeth catching on her nipple. He swirled his tongue around it, sucking deliciously. And then his stubble scraping your skin, he dragged his mouth to the other. Her helpless, shuddery gasps were making him so hard, he wondered how he survived this.
Kenrya: “Yeah,” he growled against her breasts. “I'm still there.” “Why? Tell me.” Shane lifted his head, taking her in. Eva looked radiant, so slutty, with her dress pulled up under her arms, showing off sheer panties, curls everywhere, panting, trembling, lips raw and swollen from kissing. She had a bruise blossoming on her hip where he gripped her. “'Cause I'm old enough to know better,” said Shane, drawing her into a quick, dirty tongue kiss. “But I'm going to do it anyway.” “Do what?” “Fuck you. Here.” And then they tore into each other. Frantically, Shane managed to get our soaked panties off one leg and Eva pushed down his jeans and boxes, but there was no time to get all the way naked. He dug into his wallet for an ancient condom, offering a silent prayer to several deities that it still worked, and slipped it on. Then, covering her with his tall, strong body, Shane sank into Eva with excruciating slowness, careful not to hurt her.
Kenrya: It did hurt, but the burn was exquisite. Wanting more, Eva cupped his ass and pushed him deeper. She gasped, and Shane kissed her quiet, driving into her was steady, deep strokes, and all she could do was take it, wave after wave of pleasure. When he felt her whole body begin to shudder against his, he slid his hand down between their sweat-slick, half-clothed bodies and dipped his middle finger over her clit. He rubbed her slowly but fucked her hard, and it was so good, so intense, that it sent her over the edge, shattering her to stillness. And when Shane followed seconds later, he put his mouth to her ear and finally said it. Eva, he rasped, voice wrecked. Eva, Eva. He uttered it like an incantation. The only name that ever mattered, and Eva, heart slamming into her ribs, clung to him in the violet-tinged darkness. Feeling both lost and found.
Erica: Okay, so welcome back. Thank you, Kenrya, for that lovely reading. This one was a lot. Do you want to give the... You give the synopsis, because if I do it, I'm going to tell too much.
Kenrya: Okay. This book stars... Crap, how am I blanking on her name? And I literally just read it.
Kenrya: Oh, Eva.
Erica: Also known as Genevieve.
Kenrya: Yes. She is an erotica writer, which was really the first thing I think that drew us into this one, who suffers with chronic pain and tries very hard to balance writing with taking care of her daughter as a single parent. She doesn't really make much time for herself to do anything else, like fall in love. And she finds herself through a series of events that reunited with, I guess, her first love, and this book follows their reunion. The scene that we just read is the first day that they spent together.
Erica: Yes, so you said... Do you really think that it was that she hadn't fallen in love, because of time or because of other situations?
Kenrya: I think she wasn't necessarily open to it, but I also think she's someone who has been divorced. And there was something that was really striking that she at some point asked her husband, her ex-husband, was it hard to love her? And he was like, “No, I thought that you were a problem to be taken care of instead of someone to just be loved.” I think even before he said that, she had internalized that, and that it kept her from being able to feel like she could be close to people or reveal what she saw as a weakness, because she worried that she would be a burden on folks. And that kept her from being able to put herself into a position to be able to fall in love with anyone.
Erica: Yeah. I agree. I just wanted to call out the time thing because I don't think it was time. I think [crosstalk 00:17:10].
Kenrya: Yeah, you're right. That's the story she told herself and everybody else.
Erica: [crosstalk 00:17:12] yes, time was an excuse.
Kenrya: Yes, for sure.
Erica: Yeah. There were a lot of things that just were striking about this story. One of the things that we know is that she's an erotica writer, which let me say it, we were like ding, ding, ding. But also she is a single mom of this child that is a lot.
Erica: Dynamic, that's the best way to put it. She is a spitfire and it was interesting to me because I feel like parenting and being a person, they are two vast, very different roles. Parenting and being an adult are two very different things, both of which you were fucking clueless, but you got to make it look like you got your shit together to a point. And then you layer on top of each other and I think this book really showed how you can be a parent, you can swear you have all your shit together, you parent your kid. And then you put your kids in bed after you just lay down the law and you're texting some boy, because you aren't sure if he likes you. It was just, yeah.
Erica: I think one of the biggest things that I had to deal with through therapy was recognizing that my mom was just a person, my dad was just a person. They had parenting and parenthood, grown-up added to who they were, but at the end of the day, they're still people trying to figure shit out. And this showed that, because I feel like also when I'm dating now, it's like, he doesn't like me. And I'm like, bitch, you over here managing a household budget, and you're doing all this other stuff. But at the end of the day, we're people that are trying to figure this shit out.
Kenrya: It's true.
Erica: You feel that way as a, or now that you're on the other side?
Kenrya: Yeah. I still feel that way. Yes. Yesterday our AC was out and it got to be like 92 degrees in here.
Erica: Which is hot for you, because you still keep your house warm, but anyway.
Kenrya: Yeah, so it was hot and it was humid and it was literally unbearable for people with asthma, trying to sit in here. And I had a meeting with a client starting in two minutes when I was just like, we can't stay here, but also didn't have time to... And it was on Zoom, so we ran down to the car. I had to do my calls on video from the car, but at least we got some relief from the air. And then I was like, we'll go get gas. We'll go get dinner.
Erica: You know me and I live below you, right?
Kenrya: I know that, but I also know that I was at your house on Sunday and my allergies were so bad, even with taking an extra pill, that I woke up in the middle of the night all fucked up and had to use my saline and shit, so I wouldn't get a sinus infection. This is the part that I'm getting to. My anxiety makes it really hard for me to person, to adult, and to parent. I was trying to explain to my partner, because we ended up going to his place cause he doesn't have pets, it was just too fucking hot here. At first, we were going to try to stay and we're going to just sleep in the living room and make it a sleepover. And I'm trying to make it fun for the kid, because I'm trying to parent while also trying to figure it out. But I would have had to come all the way downstairs and look through the basement to try to find the air mattress. I know that for people who don't have brains that are broken, that doesn't seem like a difficult task.
Erica: Your brain is not broken. It's just a little special.
Kenrya: I'm okay with it, it’s got some fucked up parts and that's okay. It's just part of who I am, it don't bother me, it's just hard sometimes. So I have to repeat what's going on more than once in order to get down there to get it. I got to look for it. I got to do that while my kid doesn't freak out that I had to leave her. The house is dark, because we're not turning on lights because we're trying to keep it cool.
Kenrya: All of these things are going through my broken brain and feeling completely overwhelming. I'm sweating fucking buckets. I can barely breathe. And all I'm trying to think about is how do I manage just the logistics of this? How do I manage the anxiety that is coming up around having to deal with the logistics and having to ask for help with that? And how do I manage her and her anxiety? And I'm trying to do all of this at the same fucking time. And only one time that I... It was something that she asked me and I didn't snap. I was just like, "Hey, could you just do what I asked you to do?" Because that was all I could manage to keep from losing my shit. To me, yesterday perfectly encapsulated what it is like to try to do all the little things at one time and to feel like you're failing on every front all at the same fucking time. It was not great. It was not great.
Erica: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
Kenrya: It is what it is. And part of my issue was that it's hard for me to ask for help when I'm in the middle of stuff. So it just the thing. If my partner hadn't said, "Hey, get your shit and come over here," I would have been trying to figure it out on the floor, or on the couch in my living room.
Erica: Yeah, when you sent me a text saying, I was like, "Wait, she ain't say nothing, but all right." You ain't have ice up there. You can at least come down for some ice.
Kenrya: Everything felt so hard.
Erica: I'm messing with you. Well, yeah, parenting, being... Parenting and personing are... The clash between the two, it's just... And dating and relationships and all of that. And this showed all of that. Also with how you can have... Everything could be blowing up at the same time. Eva was dealing with her health, she was dealing with the kid, she was dealing with... And also-
Kenrya: She had a book due.
Erica: The book due. She was dealing with-
Kenrya: And this nigga pop up.
Erica: The nigga and the show, and a movie. It was just a lot going on. And on top of that... I guess we'll go into it. So Eva suffers with really bad migraines, and to not only have all of this happening, but then something that... I don't want to turn this into the Oppression Olympics. You said that before. But to have something that can truly take you out, that you just have to shut everything down, no matter, just layered even more on top of it. So Eva struggled with her migraines, and for a really long time, damn near towards the end of the book, where she recognized it as a disability. And it was more just out of frustration, like, "You know what, goddamn it, I do have a disability. I have an invisible disability and this is what it is."
Kenrya: It's not a shortcoming, and it's not something that she's not doing right, or something that she has to hide. So what was really interesting to me is that I did not realize how much this book paralleled my life until you called me and was like, "Hey bitch, this your life." Like the mom raising a kid, really. I mean, at least her co-parent lives in Dadifornia, but I... Whatever. But writer, invisible disability, all of that. And it was interesting because this is something that I have really been dealing with over the last year, just as a person and also in therapy, because that's what therapy is for. So folks who listen to the show regularly will know that... And I don't really talk much, because again, you don't want to delve into your stuff, but I have been battling who the fuck knows what with my health for the last year, and it has been like dominoes falling. Or no, more like whack-a-mole. Every time we figure out one thing that's wrong with me, some more pop up, or the treatment for one thing creates another thing.
Erica: Cause something else, yeah.
Kenrya: So where we are right now... The main thing is that I have fatigue that just fucking puts me out, where I have days where it is very difficult for me to get out of bed. And that was really what started it and led to a whole bunch of other stuff, including a liver disease diagnosis. Yo, one thing that they never tell you... They always tell you when you go on a birth control pill that they can cause blood clots. No one ever tells you that you can end up with something called drug induced liver injury, which is what I was diagnosed with last year. So for any of you who have weird numbers on your liver enzymes when you get your complete metabolic tests at your annual physicals, and nobody knows what's going on, if you are on birth control pill, it is rare, but it is a thing that happens, and it's a thing that has happened to me and turned into a whole bunch of other stuff.
Kenrya: My liver is fine now after two surgeries and a whole bunch of stuff, but fatigue still remains. So now we're at a point where I am seeing a neurologist all the time to try to diagnose what we think it is, and if I get a diagnosis, I'll share, but essentially it makes it so that it is really hard for me to do a lot of the things. I've always been a person who could work out like it was nothing. I have to walk, really, which is great, because it's my favorite form of exercise, but I used to be able to walk for an hour and then go to the gym and lift weights for 45 minutes and get on the treadmill for another 30. I just am unable in this body to do those things at this point.
Kenrya: Hopefully medication will get me there again, but I'm not there now, and it's been difficult for me to adjust and also to have these conversations around... And I have migraines which have started back over, yeah, that part, to the point where I am now getting monthly injections to try to quell them. They're not as bad as Eva's in the book, but they put a bitch down. They're not great. Besides just the physical aspects of what I've been dealing with over this last year, there's also the exhaustion that comes with dealing with the medical industrial complex, which ironically, I guess, now I'm writing about. My next book is about Black women, racism, and health. And it's been interesting how my own shit has been unfolding as I have been researching and writing. And at one point it was... My health had gotten so bad that I had to put aside the book because it was quite frankly triggering to deal with that-
Erica: This will have a memoir aspect to it.
Kenrya: And I think a lot of it's going to end up coming through in this book, which already is shot through with personal stories that some people are not going to want to see, but that are really fucking relevant and grounded in the work. But the other part of it is dealing with the fact that this has become a disability and it's an invisible one, and which... I don't know that a lot of folks are necessarily... That it's a concept that they understand, that there can be things wrong with people that we don't know. I think it's come up a bit over this last year in dealing with COVID, with the assholes who are upset with people, for whatever reason, who choose to wear a mask. I am one of them. I've always had a compromised immune system.
Kenrya: But you never know what the fuck folks are going through, and I think that folks have thought about that a little bit when they've wanted to over the past year with COVID, but it's made me think about my own internalized ableism and what it meant to call myself a disabled person and also to think about... I have some issues around what it meant, what felt taking up a space that didn't belong to me. Because, again, that's where the ableism comes in. So “who am I to say that I'm disabled when this person is going through this thing that I deemed to be worse than when I'm going through” and how does your ableism make it so that you can think that someone's... You know what I mean? It's worse than yours.
Erica: I totally get it. I totally get it.
Kenrya: So that's work that I've been doing. But also realizing that my therapist is like, "Well, you do a lot of advocacy work in a lot of areas, and some of them are areas that you are a member of the community, and some of them are areas where you're not." She's like, "So how do you balance that?" And I was like, "Well, my work is about lifting up the voices of other people and centering folks who are pushed to the margins. That's what I do." And I was like, "So I guess this is not really any different. I already try to do that with folks in the disabled community. It doesn't mean that I'm pushing myself out here as some fucking organizer or anything that. It's just another part of my identity that informs the work that I do." And she was like, "Well then what you worried about bitch?" But it's been something that I have been wrestling with, the ways that I look at myself and the ways that I relate to the world. And I recognize that in Eva in reading this book.
Erica: That was a word. Related unrelated, I was talking to this guy and he was like, "Are you bisexual?" And I'm like, "No, I have sex with women, but I'm not." He was like umm.. That's the same thing. I feel too... Me having sex with women, one, it's a new thing. Actually doing it is a new thing. And it's always in the context of a threesome, and I generally present and live as a straight woman. So it feels like I... To say that, "Yes, I'm bisexual. Yes, I'm queer." It feels like I'm stealing someone else's... What gives me the right to say this. What give me the right to say this when I am... I am a Black woman, but I don't have the shit that bisexual, lesbian women have to go through. So I totally get it. I think we see that among our mixed friends that present as white, even if they want, willingly, you know?
Kenrya: Well, and I think what we have to, what it comes down to is one, realizing that, just like how we say that other folks can identify in the ways that make the most sense to them, we have zero problem extending that same grace to other folks, but we don't do it to ourselves. And I think it's really important that we find our way to that space for ourselves. And lots of things can be true at the same time. We can do that while also holding the fact that we have privilege. I have privilege in the fact that my disability is invisible. So unless I let you into what is going on... I mean, yeah, you may see me and be like, "Why did she just say she needed to move from this table to this couch because she can't sit up no more," you know what I'm saying?
Kenrya: But I have the privilege of being able to not be identified in that way and not be discriminated against in that way, unless somebody is around me long enough to get to the end of the day and be like, "Holy fuck." And you have the privilege of being able to present as straight and folks to outwardly only see you engaging with men, so you're not dealing with the phobia that can be attached to that. And that's the privilege. We can recognize the privilege that we hold as cis women over our trans siblings. It's the same thing. And we can use that privilege in ways like talking about it on this show that help us to advocate for everybody in the community without feeling like we're taking up a space that doesn't belong to us. And who's to say that it doesn't?
Erica: Yeah. So in the vein of Eva living your life, or you living Eva's life, whichever way.
Kenrya: I'm older than her.
Erica: She broke down the whole relationship with her daughter, Audre's dad. Wait, what was her daughter's full name? I loved it. It was Audre-
Kenrya: Oh my God, she was named after everybody.
Erica: Something Toni.
Kenrya: Toni, yeah. She was named for like four-
Erica: I know she was Audre Lorde Toni Morrison. There was somebody else. We'll find it. But the co-parenting relationship, how she... And I think that so many women deal with this. A lot of them don't... I'm sorry. I am breaking out, having some sort of allergic reaction, so my entire body itches. That's why you keep seeing me scratching myself. Sorry about...
Kenrya: I didn't notice, but are you okay? Do you need to...
Erica: I don't fall out, it's just... Girl, I am my mama's daughter. We used to laugh at my mom because she would look at anything too hard and break out in rashes and welts. The older I get, the more I get like her, so that's why y'all see me scratching all the time.
Kenrya: I'm sorry. Oh, her daughter's name was Audre Zora Toni Mercy Moore. Named after Zora Neale Hurston.
Erica: I loved it. So she was talking about how... Breaking down the relationship with her dad, her ex-husband and her daughter's dad. And it was like, look, he's a good guy. He's her dad. But he literally is the fun dude that shows up every every year.
Kenrya: She gets to go hang out in Dadifornia for the summer and that's what that is
Erica: I'm sorry y'all, I just realized my mic was backwards. However, I'm loud, so I don't think that'll be a problem.
Kenrya: You did just get loud on us, buddy.
Erica: Sorry, y'all. Hopefully our engineer can make those changes.
Kenrya: You got this.
Erica: Yeah, so I thought that was really... It was real like, "Damn, you know this." Tia wrote her ass off in this book, because it was just like, damn. You just explained so many women's lives. I think we both represent that to various degrees. I mean, my co-parenting relationship, he's a little more involved, primarily because it's like a, "Hey, this needs to happen today at this time." And he's like, "Okay." But other ends of the spectrum is like, "Now what's your teacher's name? What grade you're going to?" So yeah. Anyway. Dog, this story had so much fucking trauma to it. There was lots of drug use, drug abuse, alcoholism... Was there? Yeah, alcoholism. It was pretty tough. It was pretty tough. Because the way that they tell the story, you know that... What's the guy's name? Shane.
Erica: You know that Shane was significant, but you don't really know it all, so by the time you get to the end of the story, you have a full picture of their relationship, the entire relationship. But even in the beginning, the bits and pieces you see, you're just like, "Fuck, this is just tough." And it shows how a parent's unresolved trauma gets dumped on the kid, and then it also shows how just life trauma, the shit has to get out. It's got to come out of you. And either going to come out of you and dump into drugs and alcohol. It might come out of you dump into drugs, alcohol, and kid, but the shit's got to come out of you. Sorry.
Kenrya: We saw the impact with Eva of generational trauma. We see how that was just handed down like a ring. And we saw in Shane how... His shit was already fucked up, but then an event just kind of changed the course of his life.
Erica: So two things. One, an event can change the course of your life. So things could have went one way or another way. Because it seemed like everything was really... I mean, you never know. Something else could have happened. But it really felt things were okay and good with him until this event happened, and it just completely changed the course of a situation.
Kenrya: It was interesting because while my childhood was not Eva's, it for damn sure was the way that my childhood could have been, and my custody situation... Had I not, had my dad gotten custody of me... I think about this all the time, honestly. That felt like... You know those choose your own adventure books. Those were my shit.
Erica: Yes. And that's how I look at it. And that's also why it's difficult for me to pass judgment on people. I hate... And not saying that I haven't in the past, but I hate when people take videos of somebody on drugs on the street and they laughing at them. It's like, "Look at her doing that." And it's like, if it weren't for a stroke of chance, that could have been you, that could've been your mama-
Kenrya: There but for the grace of God.
Erica: Exactly. It could have been anybody. So it's really difficult for me to even... That stuff seems real just like... Because I have had so many situations in my life where I look back and I'm like, "If it weren't for this one thing, shit could've went completely left." And also as a parent, and I want to ask you about this, you could see how Eva was super intentional to raise her daughter and not pass on that trauma. I actually see it a lot with people that I've grown up with. We all grew up in like really not so great situations, and then we have kids, and our kids are fucking assholes. I want to give my kid the world, and it's like... So then you're trying to balance the...
Kenrya: That balance. And not making them assholes, yo. You got to know how to fucking clean a tub. You ain't got to take a bath by heating the water on the stove like I did, but she you got to know how to clean this tub.
Erica: Exactly. I catch myself all... I was talking to someone last Sunday night, because he was talking about his son and he was like... And he started saying, "When I was his..."
Erica: He said, "I ain't going to do that." I'm like, "Yep. I totally get it," because you work so that your kids can have it easier. You work and try to be your best, so that you're not passing down that trauma. But it's also very hard to be ... My kid has no street smarts. I don't want to say common sense. And I can't help, but think, "Damn! When I was your age, I had all the streets smarts and common sense," because I was in a fucked-up position Exactly. And so-
Kenrya: At what cost? You had to— it probably kept your ass alive.
Erica: Exactly. And it's so sad, but you could see how she was raising a really cool kid.
Kenrya: Yeah. And she was working hard to do that. This weekend, we finally watched “Widows.” And Daniel Kaluuya is in it. It's Viola Davis. Really? He played Fred Hampton, Chairman Hampton.
Erica: I know who that is. I'm taking about this movie.
Kenrya: It's good. It's-
Erica: I'm not that bad.
Kenrya: Oh, okay. Well, it's about some women who are widowed, because their husbands are criminals and some shit happens and they come together to pull off a heist.
Erica: Is this the ... Oh, no. Okay, so I saw this one on a plane and it had Tiffany Haddish-
Erica: Melissa McCarthy.
Erica: And the girl from Mad Men, Elizabeth Olsen.
Kenrya: Oh no, this is not that at all. That's a whole different vibe. But so anyway, there's ... Daniel Kaluuya's character's ... So there's a meme that shows him and he like looking at this nigga like this. And I remember on Twitter, somebody was like, "Parents who say they want to give their kids a better opportunity. And then those same parents when they see their kids thriving, like ... " And I'm like, [inaudible 00:46:14] you want these niggas to do well, but it's also like, "Yo, you can't be a trash person."
Erica: You want them to have an easy life-
Kenrya: Yeah, but you also need to be able to take care of yourself and to have empathy. And I remember our therapist asked me once. She was like, "If you could do it all again, knowing what you know and what you've learned about yourself and all of this stuff, would you want to go through your trauma again to become this person?" I was like, "Fuck, nah!" I would much rather have these lessons and have not gone through that.
Erica: Read them in a book.
Erica: Let somebody else tell you about it.
Kenrya: Right. And so I feel like a lot of what parenting means to me is trying to impart these lessons in a way that is not harmful. So, how we were talking about having a discussion about gaslighting. like I learned about gaslighting, because it was done to me by my family. My kid is learning about it, because we're having conversations, exactly, about what it means. And talking about definitions and examples, and ways to combat it and how to draw boundaries. And we can teach our kids these things without traumatizing them, ultimately, is where I'm going with this. And it's one of the reasons it's ... I'm not just in therapy for me, I'm in therapy for her.
Erica: You know, I was in therapy?
Erica: Right. But the work work of my therapy was being a parent, bringing out all of this-
Kenrya: This triggering-
Erica: Yeah, and ... That's the word. I had to deal with this, or I was going to have my kid out there really messed up. It was just ... Yeah, dog. The-
Kenrya: It's hard.
Erica: Yeah. That shit is hard. Also, I thought it was really interesting how it showed Eva's abuse, or Eva's addictions. It came out of undiagnosed medical issues. Right? Or, maybe it was diagnosed, but-
Kenrya: It wasn't well treated-
Kenrya: She didn't have adequate care.
Erica: And that is just like, oh!
Kenrya: Well, so many people self-medicate. And I think that was one of the breakthroughs I had in therapy as a younger person, when trying to understand the motivations of people around me and my family, and things like that, was that a lot of folks ... People are just trying to fucking get by.
Erica: Yeah, they're just trying to get through it.
Kenrya: Yeah. And self-medicating is a way that that happens. Folks, again, don't have the tools, don't get the tools, don't have support systems that help them to them. I had my first fucking anxiety attack in the eighth grade, and nobody had no conversation with me about what that meant. They said I had a breakdown and then I went to school the next fucking day. Right? I cried for, I don't know how many hours straight. There was no discussion of mental health. Nobody was trying to find me a therapist. We didn't have any fucking health insurance. So who the fuck was going to pay for it?
Kenrya: And I did not turn to drugs or anything, but that's because I have seen so much addictive behavior in my family that I've always been afraid to do anything other than smoke weed, because I'm afraid that a switch is going to flick.
Erica: Yeah. But you're also aware of the fact that it could have been completely different. That first anxiety attack could have sent you someplace else. You know?
Kenrya: Exactly. People self-medicate, because they're just trying to get through. And shit is hard and everybody doesn't have the resources. Again, privilege, yo.
Erica: Privilege. After high school, both Eva and Shane went their separate ways and Eva pretty much reinvented herself. Right? She went to a whole new city and just started over.
Kenrya: Changed her name-
Erica: But to me, I was like, "Girl, who your friends? We are too fucking noisy. He just like, "I want to know you better." And so, after a while, we're going to ... Yeah. After a while, I'm going to know a little bit more about you. You ain't going to be able to just have a whole life in the background and-
Kenrya: But, here's the thing, man. It's not easy to keep things hidden, but I ... My best friend growing up, who you know very well, I didn't let her in on my situation growing up, until I was good and grown and living in New York and she came to visit me. And I don't know why or how, but I ended up telling her about my ... And I saw this bitch five days a week. And she didn't know anything, because I kept it to myself, because I was embarrassed. And I took ownership of things that didn't belong to me, because I was a child who had been put upon. And it is very easy or not easy, but it was the thing that you do, because it is self protective. And so I 100% understand how her people didn't know. And shit, even as an adult, when I was in really bad situations, y'all ain't know shit.
Erica: Yeah, you're right. Okay.
Kenrya: If it's in your nature to be a secret squirrel about your shit then you will.
Erica: Yeah. Well, I'm going to need one good Erica, because I'm going to be squirreling shit away. Okay. So we've talked about all the other stuff. But let's get to why we're here. The sex. Oh, you know what? The people that are having sex. Okay. Shane and Eva, their relationship. So essentially they were ... I don't know if I'm going to be giving too much away. So, the seven days in June are literally just seven days in June. And it was amazing to me. Once I read it and it all came together, I was like, "Wait, All this in a week?" What'd you say?
Kenrya: Also, Tia—just the structure of this book is fantastic.
Kenrya: And I love how it goes back and forth in time. And sometimes you don't know where you are in time. But the way that she weaves the story. Yeah, not only is this just like a sexy book, and not only does it tell a really important story, but it's just-
Erica: It's a good-
Kenrya: ... really well-written [crosstalk 00:53:13] and it's just a great story.
Erica: I listened to it on Audiobook and it was ... Yeah, I couldn't put it down or couldn't stop listening.
Kenrya: Stop listening.
Kenrya: Yeah. I found myself in the middle of the night not sleeping, because that's what I do sometimes, just reading, running through chapters. It's just so good. And we read a lot of stuff to find things for this show and everything ain't great. But this, yeah. This is a fantastic book.
Erica: I'm thinking, because when I was reading and it all came together that these seven days in June were literally seven days. And these seven days ... Again, just one small thing can change the course of your life. These seven days left such an impact on these two people. And they were teens. But that's also the part that got me. They were like little Tater Tots, little doodle bops. And, it just stuck. That relationship, well, what they went through. And I guess the relationship itself just stuck and became ... I don't know if it was a gold standard for other relationships, but it definitely was just one of those-
Kenrya: Yeah, that feels unhealthy.
Erica: Oh, no. When I say the seven, I mean the feeling, the connection between the two of them. The relationship, unhealthier than a motherfucker. But, the connection between the two of them became the gold standard that ... It seemed like-
Kenrya: That they were both-
Erica: They were chasing
Kenrya: ... reaching for.
Erica: Yeah. They were both chasing that in subsequent relationships.
Kenrya: For sure.
Erica: You didn't have a profound high school love, did you?
Kenrya: Bitch, I was fucking around with. Terrible. No.
Erica: Well, Shane could have been looked at as terrible.
Kenrya: It's true, but I don't think I ever really felt ... We've talked a lot on this show about how I would reach a point and be done and I'd be like "I-
Erica: Got to go!
Kenrya: So I never, especially not at that age, was anybody where I felt like ... I think that they, and we won't really delve into whether or not they are, because I don't want to spoil anything. I think that they think they are soulmates from really when they first met. And I never felt that way until now, at my big age.
Erica: And it wasn't an instant, like "We're soulmates."
Erica: Exactly [inaudible 00:56:10] in a bottle.
Kenrya: Yeah, I did not. And I think even when I was in high school, I think I was pretty clear that like all this shit was temporary. And I didn't even have the illusions of this shit.
Erica: Oh, we'll be in Disney forever. Sorry!
Erica: .. say he wants to get rubs. Sorry. But yeah, I didn't have any illusions whatsoever that any of these relationships in college were, I mean at high school were going to stick.
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I definitely never thought that. I think I always felt that they were for the time that they were for. It didn't mean that they didn't feel intense, or that they didn't feel like they were really necessary. And in the moment-
Kenrya: Yeah. And I'm also never a person, who pictured their wedding or any of that. I ain't never found myself drifting into that fantasy with anybody back then.
Erica: I don't think I've ever pictured a wedding with anyone. I've definitely pictured married life with people. Like, oh, this is what we'll look like when we're old and gray together. But not like ... What you say?
Kenrya: I don't think I ever did that. Even when I got married, I just was like, "All right."
Erica: "Okay. We'll just evaluate this at the end of the year." Well, yeah. But as a parent, I can only imagine how scary it is to watch your child be serious with someone, or believe that this is who they're going to be with.
Kenrya: I had a dream last night, that my kid was putting her name beside the name of a kid who I think she has a crush on, but she won't admit it. Yeah, I forgot about that-- she was trying out her name next to his last name in my dream. And I was like, "That's cute." I wasn't freaking out, surprisingly, in the dream. I think he's a cute little boy. He's very sweet.
Erica: Yeah. He probably don't brush his teeth.
Kenrya: But they're 10.
Erica: But, anyway, so. Right. They're 10, so they don't brush their teeth. But yeah, as a parent, I think that I would definitely be freaked out if my kid was trying to get serious, be too serious or too intense with anyone at a young age.
Kenrya: I 100% would trot out all of my stories and be like, "Here's why this is not a good idea."
Erica: But you know, we do have a few friends that have been with their ... Well, one person comes to mind. She's not like super in the circle, but she's a friend of ours.
Kenrya: She probably a friend of yours.
Erica: No, she's actually more your friend than mine.
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Erica: And she's a friend, But yes. And she came to Howard with her boyfriend. Didn't come with him, but she came to Howard. Everybody knew his name. So then when she left and they got married, it was like, "Oh shit! This shit was for real." Our friend, she's from Detroit.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah.
Erica: Because to me, I feel like I'm afraid for my kid to miss out on life, being caught up in a relationship. And maybe that's unfair. But I just feel like you get in a relationship and you nest. And even if it's a healthy one, you start spending more time with one another. And then it's like, but you missing out on life. You young. Do that boo'd up shit when you old and your knees don't work.
Kenrya: That's real. And I also think about the fact that the person who you are at 17 is not the person who you are at 27. It's not the person who you are at 37. And there is a really great chance that y'all are going to grow in different directions. And the idea of binding yourself to someone who may be a completely different person in a year, in five years, in 10 years, is frightening to me, to do anything that feels hard to reverse. You know what I mean? Like marrying, having children, things that you can't just be like, "All right. I'm out," is a little too much. My partner and I were just talking about how I envy one of my exes, because, only for one reason, which is because when he got a divorce, that was it.
Erica: It was done. Yeah.
Kenrya: He's never seen his ex-wife again. He never has to. They had no kids. They owned no property. They just... got a divorce via the mail. Sent the paperwork and signed it and then never had to see each other again.
Kenrya: That's how you do it.
Erica: I will agree, that it is how you do it.
Kenrya: Yeah. But I don't want them to get, yours or mine, to get into some shit that's hard, that we got to call an attorney in to get them out of.
Erica: Or just like, I don't know.
Kenrya: Or that stunts their growth, and keeps them from becoming the person that they're supposed to be.
Erica: Exactly. And I guess that's my biggest concern. There's so much that you're not going to experience, because just if you're just being a good partner and respectful and all that. I was a disrespectful motherfucker, to my own body sometimes. And I think all of that helped me grow and become more of who I am. And those experiences shaped me. And yeah, even when we're all reminiscing and talking about stuff, I can tell what the periods where I'm like, "Oh, I must've been up under that nigga." And I feel like I missed out, especially for some shit that didn't pan out.
Kenrya: Yes. I have a lot of those moments, where I was absolutely boo'd up and y'all was in Miami somewhere shaking ass. And I was with somebody who did not deserve my ...
Kenrya: Yeah, I missed out for sure. And, even if it's a good person and even if it is, like you said, a healthy relationship, I feel like there's some shit that you're not doing, that there's opportunity costs that come with tying yourself to somebody super early.
Erica: Yeah. Well said, like a business major. Okay. So then Shane shows back up in Eva's life. They had such an effect on one another. And we find out ... I'm giving all types of spoilers. But we find out that Shane's and Eva's relationship is the source material for Eva's huge erotica series. So she has a series, I guess, that can best be described as Twilight. Right? For adults.
Kenrya: This surface. It is a vampire their situation. It's a supernatural erotica series, which we've covered quite a bit on the show, actually, those kinds of series.
Erica: But it's massive, like [inaudible 01:04:21].
Kenrya: Like a big fucking deal.
Erica: Yeah. And we find out that Shane is the source material-
Kenrya: The prototype.
Erica: And Shane is this massive author. And we find out that Genevieve/Eva is his source material, which is so oddly romantic that they were writing to one-
Kenrya: Yeah. Writing to and about each other and dropping little hints in-
Erica: And these are massive books. So everybody knows him. Did he win a National Book Award or something?
Kenrya: I think so.
Erica: Yeah. His shit was...
Kenrya: He's definitely one of those folks.
Erica: Yeah. But he's like one of those huge names. And they're just writing about each other. And, they also both have success in the same arena, but in very different ways. And I feel like, also there's a bit of ... And we will address this when we talk to Tia about this, but I think there's also a sense of "erotica's play play." But she's probably outsold-
Erica: You know? And so it's just like, "Man!" Oh, also I found lots of points in the book where there were lots of "womanist" manifestos being said-
Kenrya: Especially by her daughter.
Erica: Yes. I was listening on audiobook, but I was like, "Okay, this part would have been highlighted a million times on the Kindle."
Kenrya: I can assure you that it was, yes. I bookmarked so much stuff in this book too, probably more than any other that we've done for the show.
Erica: Yes. Again, really good book. Okay. You know what I want to talk about? The sex.
Kenrya: The sex. Yes.
Erica: So, Shane and Eva, they meet up. Shane drops in Eva's life. This might be too specific. You might've been with your man when this happened, but do you remember the step show at Howard, where the Que, I'm not going to name him by name, but the Que walks through the crowd singing, (singing)? The lights were dark.
Kenrya: Was this the proposal?
Erica: No, not the proposal. It was a couple of years after that. But this person did marry one of our chapter's sorors. He walked through, sweaty with no shirt on. Everyone was like, "Oh," and the spotlight was on him and he was singing Omega type shit.
Kenrya: That's what you saw when Shane was coming from the back of the room?
Erica: Yes. They was like... And he sauntered up on stage and did a step. No. Okay, did some donkey kicks. But yeah, Shane literally drops into her life and the next day-
Kenrya: ... accidentally.
Erica: Yeah, he was not trying to do that, but he did.
Kenrya: In such big fashion.
Erica: So then shows up there. Him and Eva are like, "What the fuck?" No one knows about their past, so they kind of try to play it cool. But the next day... Was it the next day?
Erica: The day they meet up for coffee and fucking.
Kenrya: No, that's not how it happened.
Kenrya: First, they met in the diner and--
Erica: Oh, you know what? Yeah. And then was it when she needed help that she went to him?
Kenrya: Yes. Let's not go to deep into that. But yeah, she comes back to him because she needs help. Yes.
Erica: And they ended up-
Kenrya: And then it was coffee and fucking.
Erica: And you know what? That whole... What is it, the dream house idea?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: That's so New York. That's some New York shit.
Erica: That's some New York shit that would've got spread to DC.
Kenrya: Like a year later.
Erica: Yeah. But you know they used to do that at Spa World, right?
Kenrya: Like sleep?
Erica: Yeah, they had a sleep room, and they had to close it because Spa World kept having massive bedbug outbreaks.
Erica: Because people would bring their own stuff from home. It was a soft place for people to sleep, but people would bring their own their own pillows and blankies and stuff, and then it was bedbugs.
Kenrya: Oh no. I'm glad you never told me that before.
Erica: No, but this was in a whole other area that you would have never been in. Quit scratching your head. You're literally scratching.
Kenrya: Because I'm thinking about how many times I slept on that heated floor.
Erica: Well, it wasn't on the heated floor.
Kenrya: It wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erica: Did you ever get a massage with me at Spa World?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: It's up that area, you know how you go up there.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: So it's not...
Kenrya: So for folks who do not know what Spa World is, it's a Korean spa and bath. So there's pools-
Erica: ... the blade pool.
Kenrya: ... and all different temperatures. So you come in, you strip, everybody is just fucking naked and you take a shower.
Erica: Bucky naked.
Kenrya: It's separated, it's very much a binary situation. It's separated by male and female.
Erica: Pens and vag.
Kenrya: Yes, which it's problematic all on its own. But you go from pool to pool. They've got pools that have jets, that if you want to massage your legs with the jets, you sit in this one little area. You can go over here if you need some jets on your back. There's freezing pools. There's super hot pools. There's wet saunas. There's dry saunas. There's some of everything. And then-
Erica: So you know what's interesting?
Erica: I really have a problem with swimming pools. Right?
Kenrya: In general?
Erica: Yeah, it's hard for me to enjoy a swimming pool, because I just think about...
Erica: All them bodies. Right? Like people peeing. I'd much rather be in the ocean. Yes, fish pee in the ocean, people pee in the ocean.
Kenrya: As Moana said, "Fish pee in you."
Erica: Look, I pee in the ocean.
Erica: If we're at the ocean and I just kind of walk off, and like, "Hey," don't follow me. There's something about the nature of it all. But I really get uncomfortable in swimming pools. But I fucks with Spa World.
Erica: I be in that little dirt bath, like, "Hey, hey, hey. We all boiling together."
Kenrya: Yeah. We have gotten high and gone there many times, overnight, always overnight. They got a good ass food, authentic Korean food. Yeah. So you go, you eat, you do all the pools. They've got these ladies that will scrub you down, scrub all the skin off of your body.
Erica: It's like a body detail, they do...
Kenrya: Yeah, that's under anything. And then there's this room. It's just this heated floor and you lay--
Erica: And it's so sparse, it's like floor, and a little hard pillow.
Kenrya: And you lay down.
Erica: And you're knocked out.
Kenrya: Yo, I done got some of that best sleep of my life on that floor.
Erica: And I am not the type of person to just be sleeping on random floors, except at Spa World.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's so good.
Erica: Because usually you have been in water for a couple of hours, then you eat a really good meal, and then you just fall asleep. And then at night, when they turn the lights off-
Kenrya: Yeah, and it's a 24-hour pass. But now, is this a post-COVID...
Erica: They're probably doing well. Because I went to H Mart, and when I tell you H Mart was like, I was like, "Yo, I should have been shopping here all the time." Because all them little old Asian grannies, all of them wear their most of the time, any damn way.
Kenrya: I was going to say what does H Mart have to do, besides being Korean, but I see what you're saying, because they're actually enforcing. Gotcha.
Erica: Yeah. Actually, I was reading this article about how COVID spread slower in Asian communities, because one, they have-
Kenrya: Well, because they fucking take care of business and take care of each other.
Erica: Well, I mean, even in Chinatown. And it's because they said, they already have a culture... I feel really weird saying, "They," but the people that live in these communities already have a culture of wearing masks a lot. And they heard about it from family members abroad, and so they were able to really...
Kenrya: Act quickly instead of this bullshit, so that's what's up.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So if anything, I'd be more than happy, because, girl, I went into H Mart-
Kenrya: But I'm just thinking about it being that many people in close proximity and if folks are going to wear masks in the pool, and that kind of thing. That's what I'm thinking about. Right? And it's indoors.
Erica: But anyway. So dream bed, dream spa, dream mart, whatever the name of it is.
Kenrya: Dream House.
Erica: Dream House, yeah. But that's some total New York shit. They were not supposed to be having sex. Of course, they did. And can you imagine had they got there caught? Not even have they got caught, but Shane and Eva got caught fucking. It would be like when that dude got caught jerking his meat on his own.
Kenrya: Jeffrey Toobin.
Erica: His last name was Toobin?
Erica: That definitely sounds like Toobin. I don't know.
Kenrya: Oh my God. Yes. Yeah, it would have been a big deal because they both have these massive fandoms and whatnot. So it would have been-
Erica: Because even when they were spotted together-
Kenrya: It was a big thing.
Erica: There was a whole Pottermore, the Harry Potter fan site, folks was putting shit together quick. It was like, he's this. I know, we don't like J.K. Rowling. It's so sad that she fucked it up for us.
Kenrya: Fuckin TERF.
Erica: Yeah, she fucked it up for us.
Kenrya: It's hard. My kid is part way through the series. I mean, the books are bought now, so it is what it is. But then that has to be accompanied by a conversation of why we don't fuck with this white woman.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, do you have anything else to add?
Kenrya: I don't think so. I think this is awesome and y'all should read it.
Erica: You all should read this. You all really need to read it.
Kenrya: Yeah, and Tia's coming on next week, so we get to dig into it some more with her.
Kenrya: Yeah, no, read this book.
Erica: Okay, and sorry. It's when I first started reading and I think I told Kenrya, "This is a lot. I wasn't ready for all of this." But it's so good and it's not tragic.
Erica: And so it felt good to read it, so you don't get discouraged. Oh, sorry.
Kenrya: It shows that you can talk about things like generational trauma, and PTSD, and all of the things that we warned about at the top of the show, but it doesn't have to be-
Erica: “12 Years a Slave.”
Kenrya: Right. It's not trauma porn. So, this morning I didn't even get to look at the trailer, but I saw that there's some movie called “Karen” that came out, with old girl from... What's that movie? You know what I'm talking about. Pennsatucky, who also played-
Erica: Oh, yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. So anyway, but everybody's like, "Oh, this is a fucking 'Get Out' knockoff." It's trying to deal the trauma and the horrible, but it ends up being is just making entertainment out of Black suffering basically.
Erica: Lena Waithe. Sorry.
Kenrya: Yes. 100%, don't fuck with her. Don't like her work. Done. Yes, that. And this book is not that.
Erica: No, it's great. Yeah. There's so much to dig into about this, and so I had to kind of... But there's a lot so y'all need to really, really get on this one.
Kenrya: And tell us what you all think about it.
Erica: Please do. So, what's next?
Kenrya: It's time for us to talk about what's turning us on. We going to pay some bills and we'll be right back.
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Erica: Okay. So what do you got, Kenrya?
Kenrya: Okay. So let me preface this by saying-
Erica: Have you used it?
Kenrya: I have.
Erica: Oh, okay.
Kenrya: So I don't feel like I have a lot of toys, but I feel like I've tried a whole lot of stuff. And so I went specifically for this season looking for things that I had never heard of before to try them out so then we can talk about them and see if they work for our listeners. So the thing that I found that I had never heard of and didn't know was a thing, so you know how they have penis pumps that folks use to enlarge?
Erica: Yes. Austin Powers had one in his bag.
Kenrya: Yes. And there are tons them on sex toy sites, a million different ones, because I think that's cis men's egos are fragile and very much tied to their penises, so they have a million options.
Erica: And you talk to any woman and she's like, "I don't care about size. It's about how you use it. How you wield that thing."
Kenrya: Exactly. 100%.
Erica: Any person that has sex, they will say.
Kenrya: Yeah, with penises. But so this, is a pussy pump.
Erica: Why did it have to make noise?
Kenrya: It fell apart, but I just put it back together. So this is the part that goes over your labia. And then this is what you pump up. So, I'm looking at it on the site, and I'm looking at reviews and I'm like, "Huh. Okay."
Erica: How do you use it?
Kenrya: So you lie down. For me, it absolutely required a partner. You put this over your labia, and you put some lube around it so that it releases and so that it doesn't hurt. An important key.
Erica: That should be like the suction in my bathroom.
Kenrya: And it's got a quick-release valve on it or whatever. And so you form a seal, and then you pump. And so it helped with my partner because he could actually see if it was on there the right way. And it took us a couple of tries to get it on the right way, and then he pumped it. Start slow, one pump at a time and check to make sure your partner's doing okay. And what happens is it literally expands into the cup. And so I was looking at the reviews, okay, why do people do this? So I found that there's a whole fetish around fat pussies, and that this increases the size. So you had a lot of people in the comments like, "Yeah, I use this on my partner because I like to get a fat plump pussy, and this does that for me."
Erica: But it don't make your clit feel funny, or I mean, feel good?
Kenrya: Yeah. So wat it does is-
Erica: Because I'm not doing this if you just like a fat pussy.
Kenrya: Right. But so that is what I kept seeing in the comments. But then I was like, "Well, what could this do for me?" So what it does is it brings all the blood to your labia.
Erica: Ding, ding, ding, ding.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it makes everything super sensitive.
Erica: So then did he eat after that?
Kenrya: No, we went to the penetration.
Erica: Yeah, you mean no. You need to do that next. Okay?
Kenrya: Oh, maybe that'll help me because I never get there that way.
Erica: Homework. Yeah, I was about to say homework. Homework.
Kenrya: Okay, cool. Yeah, but we went the rest of the way. But it just made everything extra sensitive, everything, and it was fantastic. Not something that I would have honestly gone looking for if it weren't for the fact that I was just looking for something different that I hadn't tried before, but pleasantly surprised.
Erica: I like.
Kenrya: Easy cleanup, you just wash this little thing, easy-peasy. Just go slow, one pump at a time.
Erica: Something tells me you all didn't.
Kenrya: No, no.
Erica: This is experience.
Kenrya: We went slowly, but at first, it wasn't seated right, and you got a lot of bones, your pelvic bones down there, so your body will tell you if it's not quite seated right because it'll be pushing up against your bones. So then we released it and repositioned it and started again. It was nice, unexpected. So that is what turned us on this week.
Erica: All right.
Kenrya: We'll put a link.
Erica: I think what scares most people, what makes most people shy away from sex toys are just the look of them, right?
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, this is a bit of a contraption.
Erica: Yeah, it looks little those--
Kenrya: Yes. For folks who are not watching us on YouTube or in the various places, it is like a little cup and it is hard plastic, and it's got a length of tubing, maybe, I don't know, a foot, 14 inches long and a purple little hand pump on it, that you squeeze, like a little ball pump.
Erica: I like it. I'm going to have to get myself one. We will include a link in the show notes.
Kenrya: We will. Yeah. So check it out, or don't, but it was fun.
Erica: All right. Well, I like, I like. Okay, well, that wraps up this week's episode of the Turn On.
Kenrya: It does.
Erica: This is Erica, Kenrya, two hoe-hosts, making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now, in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then, follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast, and you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at the TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.
Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch, or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read Rilzy Adams' "Ho! Ho! Ho!" and talk about people who seek out virgins, dealing with STIs, holding grudges, what the body knows, post-trauma rituals and the joys of rewatching—and quoting—"Waiting to Exhale" as adults.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Welcome to this week's episode of the Turn On. This week we are reading “Ho! Ho! Ho!” which is a Christmas short by Rilzy Adams, which was published in 2020. So sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, and whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Ho! Ho! Ho!” by Rilzy Adams. Myla's nerves were out of control. Was she really doing this? Could she really do this? She'd almost hightailed her ass out of the bar she and her date decided on before he showed up. “Myla?” She followed the sound of her name, tilting her head up to the man standing next to her bar stool. She almost melted in relief before anxiety settled on her stomach. Her best friend, Rihanna, had spent hours telling Myla about her misadventures with online dating. Myla had worried she might be catfished because Rihanna made it seem like that was all that happened. The man definitely looked like he did in the photos. He had the same warm, brown skin, shaved head, well-shaped beard and friendly smile.
Kenrya: There was one problem though. Most of his pictures were selfies or of him sitting his ass somewhere. So Myla had not expected him to be so big. She slid off the stool and welcomed him with a hug that had her feeling like a doll in his firm embrace. She stole a glance at his feet and blanched when she realized they were as big as the rest of him. The rest of him. The purpose of the meet-up slammed into Myla as she tried but failed to get a decent look at his printout in the dark blue jeans he wore. The conversation flowed nicely over drinks, so Myla pushed away her worries about the rest of the night in favor of enjoying his funny stories and dry sense of humor.
Kenrya: There was only so much conversation and cocktails they could have before the bartender started asking for the last orders, and they got to the part of the night that had Myla ready to hyperventilate. Was she really doing this? Could she really do this? And could she do this with him? Myla laughed drily, as she wasn't sure she had anything in her sexual arsenal, real or imagined to prepare her for this. "Let me just run to the restroom," she said, when she started entertaining thoughts of ending the date with a firm handshake before hightailing her ass back to the hotel room that she booked for the purpose of fucking someone who wasn't Donald alone. "No problem, I'll settle the bill."
Kenrya: She left him reaching into his pocket for his wallet, and took another glance at his massive-ass feet before she moved as quickly as her legs would take her to the bathroom. She had her phone out and ringing Rihanna before the door even closed. "Was it that bad?" Her friend said by way of introduction. "Wait, what? No. He's nice. No creepy vibes, and honestly hot as hell." "So why are you calling me before sunrise?" "I think he's got a huge-ass dick." Rihanna laughed, "I'm not sure I see your problem." "I don't have experience with huge-ass dicks." She could hear Rihanna shuffling around, and Myla wondered if she'd actually woken her best friend up. "You don't really have experience with dicks point blank," Rihanna observed, "Come on, you must've known that reindeers don't all have the same size antlers."
Kenrya: Rihanna broke into uncontrollable laughter the way she usually did whenever she teased Myla about calling her little adventure Operation Ride a Reindeer instead of something normal like Myla Gets Some Dick. "Can you have fun at my expense later, bitch? I'm freaking the hell out right now." Her friend took her time getting herself together. Once the laughter stopped and she caught her breath, Rihanna said, "Our pussies are equipped to handle big-headed babies. No worries, you can handle that dick. And don't call me back until you've fucked him." Rihanna disconnected the call before Myla could say anything else, leaving her standing in the bathroom, fighting the urge to run a mile, "Don't forget to Ho! Ho! Ho!"
Kenrya: The unbidden memory of the bartender she spent hours hatching her insane plan with floated through her mind, just as her resolve started wavering. She washed her face and took a deep breath. Okay, calm down, she urged herself, and go handle that dick. "You good?" The sound Myla made in her throat was noncommittal, but her date didn't seem too pressed about it. He was too busy telling her he had a great time, and hoped they would meet up again. It took him helping her into her coat and offering to get her an Uber before Myla realized that this man didn't come with the expectation of entitlement to get his dick wet. She had to peel Donald off of her after their first date, since he was as enthusiastic as a dog humping his owner's leg. But there was no such desperation from this man.
Kenrya: Wait, was it that he didn't find her attractive? Has she misread the signals she thought he'd been sending all night? Shit. Myla had never propositioned a man before. She couldn't even lean up and kiss him because he towered over her, even though she was damn near 5'7". "I got a room at the Hilton," she began, tripping over her words, "I'm not sure if you want to come back for a drink or something?" His dimples came out to play when he smiled, and suddenly her pussy was just as insistent as Rihanna that she go handle that dick. Or, at least, die trying. He caught his bottom lip between his teeth, and Myla flushed hot, imagining him doing the same to her nipples. "I could use a drink." He kept his hands to himself during the short walk to the hotel and sat on the bed, even as she poured a mini bottle of whiskey on ice for him.
Kenrya: He was waiting, she realized. Waiting for her to get comfortable, waiting for her to make the first move. But Myla was starting to wonder if she could. He shot back the whiskey in one go, and placed the tumbler on the nightstand before crooking his index finger toward her. "Come here," he said, patting his lap so that there was no misunderstanding his intention. Myla took a deep breath and steadied herself. He grabbed her when she was close enough to him, his fingers dug into her ass through the dress she wore, sending rivulets of pleasure shooting through her. He angled her so her crotch landed straight against his hard dick, and she made a small, startled cry in her throat.
Kenrya: Myla wasn't sure she believed the whole shoe size, dick size correlation theory. But it was spot on in his case. She could feel the panic creeping in, but he thrust his hips so his heavy dick pressed further against her pussy. She moaned, feeling her pussy moisten. Myla licked her lips and angled her head so he could press his mouth to hers as he rocked his dick against her pussy again, and then again, and again. The attraction that had been steadily building between them all night exploded, and suddenly everything was a frenzy. The urgency with which she grinded herself against his rock-hard dick, a frenzy. His teeth grazing across her neck and fingers, digging hard into her ass cheeks, a frenzy. The wetness pooling between her thighs, a frenzy.
Kenrya: She was high on anticipation when he helped her out the dress and dropped to her knees, parting her thighs before diving face first between her legs, and running his tongue along her slit before capturing his clit in her mouth and sucking. She jerked against him, a wanton scream ripping from her throat as she succumbed to the spine-tingling pleasure of his tongue, expertly working her over, paused. Myla would later reflect on how Donald wouldn't be dead eating her out like that. He fussed so much about eating her out at all that she generally left him alone. But she couldn't think about it then, not when this sexy-ass man dipped his tongue in and out of her pussy before he replaced it with a finger, and then two, and then three.
Kenrya: She was grinding against his face when the orgasm pummel into her. It took a few minutes before she came back to earth, panting hard and overcome with lust. She forgot she was ever anxious about another man touching her, and she forgot she'd been worried about the size of his dick when he started undressing. His boxers fell to the floor, finally revealing what had been hiding there. Fuck. His dick throbbed as if it could feel her staring at it. She couldn't move her eyes as he rolled on the condom he'd taken from his wallet. She peeped the packaging and couldn't stop the smirk from spreading across her face. He definitely was the market for Magnum XLs. "You good?" He asked, when he finally joined her on the bed. He hovered over her, bracing his weight on his forearms as he nibbled on her ear lobes while he waited for her answer.
Kenrya: Was she good? Well she was hornier than she'd ever been in her life, and anxious about him trying to fit his super-size dick in her, but it only took a few seconds to realize that she was good. In fact, she felt better than she had in a long-ass time. She felt freer than she had in a long-ass time. She was more excited than she'd been in a long-ass time. "I'm great," she said with a smile as his mouth found hers. She was trying to think of how she would handle that dick when he nudged his head against her entrance. But her pussy stretched, eagerly and happily, to accommodate him as he slid inside. And then, Myla couldn't think of anything at all.
Erica: So, Killa, give us the good old one-two, the rundown, the synopsis, the nitty gritty, the dirt.
Kenrya: Yes. So in this short, which yes, is set in Christmas. We was like, why do we have to wait till December to run some shit that we like?
Kenrya: So, it's now.
Erica: Sex is evergreen.
Kenrya: Exactly. Our main character is getting a divorce, or just finished?
Erica: She just signed, she just finished it.
Kenrya: Yes. So she's at a bar, and talking to the very cute bartender, and basically recounting all the things that she wishes that she hadn't done, and all the things that she wants to do. One of the things that she wishes that she hadn't done is married the first person who she fucked. One of the things that she wants to do, or the main thing, is fuck a whole bunch of people so she can find out what it is that she actually likes.
Erica: Test them dicks.
Kenrya: Exactly. So she's telling the bartender, she's feeling a little bit of a vibe, but they don't take it no further than him just being a really good listener while she pours out her heart over her drinks that he keeps coming. Then we jump to a year later, and they meet up again.
Kenrya: Dot dot dot.
Erica: And also what happens in between.
Kenrya: So in that year, she does exactly what she says she's going to do. I think she calls the men reindeer, so she wants to fuck with all of Santa's reindeer. So she does. So when she meets back up with him by chance while they were Christmas shopping, it's a year later, and he's like, "Yo, you've got to tell me all the stories of what you did in the past year. Are you counting the reindeer?"
Erica: [crosstalk 00:13:04].
Kenrya: So they go sit down, and she tells him all of the stories. So each chapter in the book is her telling the story of having sex with these various dudes. Then—how much do we tell?
Erica: Dot dot dot.
Kenrya: Do we leave it there? There's some attraction there, and then you see what happens.
Erica: Yes. Okay. To me, the biggest theme in this story was virginity.
Erica: I like how Rilzy wrote about it. I think that she wrote, like how virginity is, I don't know. People are like, "Virginity is a construct, right?" Just, it's your first time having sex.
Kenrya: Yeah. We hold it up as this precious, I don't know.
Kenrya: I did.
Erica: Precious flower.
Kenrya: Yeah. Oh, flower.
Erica: And there was something, there was a line in the first chapter where she said, Myla said, that she revered her virginity and her ex-husband fetishized it. And I thought that was so interesting. Because I think, on one hand, girls are taught your virginity is something so special and save it. And then you got these lecherous motherfuckers on the other side talking about, "I want to be the first to take it." You know?
Kenrya: It's just so nasty.
Erica: Interestingly enough, I've talked to ... What'd you say?
Kenrya: It just feels really icky to me.
Kenrya: And lecherous. I don't like it.
Erica: At all.
Kenrya: At all. Yeah.
Erica: But it's interesting that she talks about it like that, because she can look back and say, "Hey, this is what was put in me and what I thought made it special and important." Which then resulted in her falling in love and marrying the first motherfucker that walked by.
Erica: You know, that didn't have a problem with it.
Kenrya: That fell into her, yeah.
Erica: Because she mentioned, some dudes was like, "I'm good." And actually I've talked to guys who are hesitant to date virgins, at our age, at our big age. Just because they're like, "Yo, I don't want to be that special."
Kenrya: I mean, I have to imagine that if you have been saving it, waiting for the right person, whatever it is, right, that gets you to this age and having not had sex, that for some people, at least, there is a whole lot that is built into that. And yeah, if you get to the point where you trust somebody enough to actually go down that road, if they turn out to not be who you want them to be, or who they portray themselves to be, which we know happens all the fucking time.
Erica: All the fucking time. Unfortunately, it's par for the course.
Kenrya: That could be devastating. Yeah, yeah. But I can imagine it being that much more built up if it came attached to this thing that you have been waiting to do for literally decades.
Erica: Yeah. No.
Erica: We actually recently talked to an author, and she was talking about her virginity and was like, "Look, it was special to me just because I wanted to make sure that I had a good time."
Erica: That, I appreciate. The idea of your flower is precious, and it can't be spoiled, it has to be touched by the right person, that makes it a little like Lord of the Rings-ish, right?
Kenrya: It's interesting, right? Yes, yes. It feels very much like “my precious.” But also it's like, okay, you have these children who you are hoping will not just throw their pussy into the wind, or whatever part they got into the wind. So we haven't gotten to that point in this house in terms of conversations, and it's making me think about how do I frame that? Right now, all we talk about is masturbation, it's yours. And we talk about agency, nobody else should touch it. We haven't gotten to the point of, when you decide you want to share this pleasure, I guess I have to hope that the lessons I'm giving her kind of ladder up to that, right? In terms of who gets to touch you. All the lessons that we talk about around boundaries, all of that stuff goes into interpersonal relationships and who you choose to let into your space, I guess is where it goes.
Kenrya: I can't imagine myself saying, "Hey, that's your flower and it's precious." But I also want her to understand that it has value just like the rest of her.
Erica: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to a young person who recently lost her virginity. Well, who recently had sex for the first time. She comes from a very sex-positive family. And well, let me take that back. Not that she doesn't come from a sex positive family, but her family, her parents are very like, "Look, you're an adult, adults do things, this is sex, yada yada yada." But also she had the whole society, church. She had sex for the first time with a guy that wasn't her forever love. And she really got down on herself.
Erica: I'm like, "Yo, it's okay. Did you enjoy yourself? Were you protected?" Let's focus on that. The fact that, I'd rather you have sex for the first time with someone that you're like, "I just really want to have sex with this person." And not build it up like, "We had sex because this is my future husband." Because then, that's really setting yourself up for something.
Kenrya: Yeah, that freaks me out.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I was trying to talk to her, and explain.
Kenrya: Imagine if you had married the first person you had sex with.
Erica: The first.
Kenrya: Rock biter?
Erica: No, rock biter was the first person that kissed me.
Kenrya: The first kiss, yes.
Erica: I couldn't even say that boy's name, he played an instrument in the band. I couldn't even say if he was a percussionist, or a trumpet, trombone player or something. We're getting off, no no, no, no, no. Yeah. So just, I felt bad. To me, I was just like ... Because it's one of those situations where, it's not like it's special. But at the same time, this is your first time having sex, I want you to enjoy it or have a positive experience, not be riddled with this guilt. Like you did something wrong, or y'all did something wrong, you know?
Erica: This woman I was talking to, we were talking about the sex ed program, we're talking about setting rates. She said, "Sex and money are the two things that if you don't have enough of, something's wrong, and if you have too much of it, something's wrong." I was like, "Oh my goodness." Yeah. But there's never a just right, you know? Is there some world scale of how much money is just enough, or how much sex is just enough?
Kenrya: Too much in the terms of capitalism is bad, and if you're a billionaire, bitch give some of your money away?
Erica: Yeah. Don't be a Jeff Bezos. But also don't be a ...
Kenrya: Okay. But what's the equivalent in sex? Addiction?
Erica: Being a whore.
Kenrya: What's wrong with that?
Erica: Exactly, right? I mean, it's just people say, you know?
Kenrya: Yeah. Because I'm like, what's the ...
Erica: I don't think anything's wrong with having a whole bunch of money.
Erica: I want to be rich.
Kenrya: I want to be rich, but I don't think billionaires should exist.
Kenrya: We can agree to disagree.
Erica: Bitch, we can agree to disagree.
Kenrya: I just think that the system is broken when you have people who are hoarding wealth, and who are shitty to the people who they employ. And when you have folks who have to be on assistance and have jobs to be able to survive when the people who own those companies are literally on some Scrooge McDuck shit.
Erica: I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying, this is not a matter for us to disagree or not disagree. Because I ain't going to get to that point so you don't need to worry about me being faced with such a moral dilemma.
Kenrya: You don't know.
Erica: Well if I do, we'll revisit it, okay?
Erica: But right now, I'm not swimming in gold coins in my basement. But yeah, it's like that. You don't want to have somebody that's like, "I'm out fucking the world." This is not me, but this is them, they say. You don't want people to be out having sex with everybody, and you also don't want people having too much money. Because then it's like, "Oh my God, you've got too much money, what are you doing with it?" I'm thinking, not in a Jeff Bezos sense, but in the my cousin bought a yacht type, you know? Or she got a real nice car, she could be driving a Honda and give her cousin some, that kind of shit.
Kenrya: Lord, it's a prime example. I always tell my partner, the whole Karen whatever. I describe that as white people minding other peoples' business. This is like the prime example of folks minding other folks' business. Mind your fucking business.
Erica: Mind your motherfucking business, and not mine. Stay out of my puss, you know?
Kenrya: Yes, yes. That's a song, it's none of your business. Episode title.
Erica: If I want to take a guy home with me tonight, it's none of your business.
Kenrya: Home with me tonight, it's none of your business. And if she want to be a freak and sell it on the weekend.
Erica: Okay. Episode title. Yeah. I just think the whole idea of virginity ... Because if you think about it, everyone talks about this virginity thing. But there are so many fucking downsides to this one thing. Like there's so many downsides to, "I lost my virginity to him." Then there's like, he could be a dick, he could fetishize it. There's so much wrapped up into it. And it's like, nigga, what is the good of it? Other than controlling women and telling them.
Erica: You know?
Kenrya: Yeah. When we frame it that way, it's just like, I really like the way that you reframed that language when you're talking about the person who you had that conversation with. It's not that you lost this thing, it's that you had sex for the first time. Which puts it on par with having sex for the 36th time. It is an experience that you have. And that's it, right?
Kenrya: You try to maximize it. You should be, I hope. Of course, that's what we hope everybody who's listening to this show is doing, is trying to maximize their experiences and have the best possible safest time that they can have, and that should be it.
Erica: Yeah. But it ain't a first time, God damn, Okay.
Kenrya: [inaudible 00:25:03].
Erica: So Myla also mentioned, in passing, but it stood out in my head, that she said that she was faking orgasms with her partner. It was like, she mentioned it in passing in the first paragraph. But yeah, it was one of those, "I was faking it just to not hurt his feelings." Or something like that.
Erica: I'll be honest. I used to fake it.
Erica: To not hurt peoples' feelings, to get it over with.
Erica: But I've learned that sex is so much better if you're just quiet until he does it right. You've got to earn this squirm. Not that I'm completely silent. But I mean, I will guide and give direction. But I think that once I've lost the idea of trying to help please them, and make them feel better about themselves, it was like, oh.
Kenrya: They're having sex, they feel great about themselves.
Erica: Because then they're going to just keep doing what they're doing, thinking that it's good. It's like, no.
Kenrya: It's just, I always say, you teach people how to treat you, and the same thing goes for sex.
Erica: Teaching them how to please you.
Kenrya: I've never faked it. And more than once, I've told a nigga to get off me.
Erica: Get off of me, get off, get off, get off.
Kenrya: Listen, I'm not going to tell you that you're doing, that you're pleasuring me and you're not. Because then you're going to think that you should just do that again.
Erica: You're doing it. And honestly ...
Kenrya: And then that's what we're doing, and no thank you.
Kenrya: I'd rather not.
Erica: And not even on some, they're bad people. It's just like, "Okay, she liked this, I'm going to keep going."
Kenrya: That doesn't work for me.
Kenrya: Right. That's actually them being perceptive and receptive. If you moan when they touch you here, even though that shit don't feel good to you, if he's paying attention and tuned in he's going to say, "Okay, she likes when I touch this part this way, I'm going to do it again." So you're teaching them to pleasure you incorrectly.
Erica: The wrong thing.
Kenrya: Nah, yeah, I've never faked it. I have literally said, "Hey, you should just finish." I've said, "Hey, you should get up off me, right now."
Erica: I think it was when I was much younger. It was when I was much younger and sex, it was less about me, and more about what we were doing together. You know? Which it can be. But I'm fucking because I want to fuck.
Kenrya: Yeah. It just made me sad because it was like, not only is she having sex with this person and it's like the only person she's ever had sex with, so she's had nothing to compare it to. But also she knows it's bad, because she's not getting where she wants to get to.
Erica: Exactly. It'd be different if she was like, "Hey, I didn't know all these colors existed." But she's like, "I know there's some colors, I just ain't getting it."
Kenrya: Yeah. Which yeah, that made me feel bad. Also it brings me back to this idea of this person who wants to be the person to take something from you. Just it immediately puts me in a fucking narcissist head space, of I want to be the only one. I want you to think that this is all that there is, right? I am the only story that you get to tell. You can never know if my dick game is shitty because you don't have anything to compare it to. This is why I seek out ... It's like this predator, it makes my skin crawl. Clearly.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. This is why my biggest thing as a sex educator is, I feel like women end up loving the sex they're given and not the sex that they explore or learn to love.
Kenrya: Yeah. Or if they're lucky, right? Because they might also just hate the sex that they're given. Like Myla.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I talk to women that are like, "Yeah, I like it from the back." It's like, "Yeah, out of the six partners you had, two of them did it really well from the back." But let's try it, let's explore, let's see what else is out there. Because you might find something that you realize, "Hey, I like." You know? Some things you can just look at and be like, "You know what? I see water sports, I'm not into water sports."
Erica: That's not my niche.
Erica: But I think that we don't get the opportunity to explore. In my mind, a nigga putting his finger in my butthole freaked me out, until that shit happened.
Kenrya: I was going to say ...
Erica: And I was like, "I'll be your little bowling ball."
Kenrya: Don't knock it till you try it.
Erica: Don't knock it till you try it. Yeah. I just think it's so important for us to explore. Do homosexual people have the same hangups about virginity as heteros?
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't know. I can't speak for the queer community. But I feel like we're all socialized to think that sexual contact with other people is, first we're taught that it's dirty, right? We're taught that it's dangerous. We talked about this, I think, on an episode with Jasmine, where we had this conversation about the ways that sex education is taught. It was somebody else, too, that sex education is taught in schools. It's all framed around, hey, you can get sick, and hey don't let anybody touch you. Like that's the way sex ed is taught in this country. I think that that is that beginning seed of that, shit, even going back before that when people are told not to touch themselves, that that's dirty. I think that there's all these negative associations that are attached to our genitals and to sex and to sexual interaction. I feel like we all get that, no matter how we identify or who we love.
Kenrya: I don't know, but I think it's all the same. I think we all get told. Then they've got the added stigma of the fact that you're taught that you're not supposed to like somebody that's not of the opposite sex. I feel like it's even fucking worse.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I just hope that we haven't gotten there yet, except my child is in health class. I was like, "If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you." He's like, "I ain't talking about that with you." In his mind he said, "I ain't talking about that shit with you." But he didn't say that out loud to me.
Kenrya: Shit so I think we had our first class about that in the fourth grade, when I was a kid. Damn, it's about that time.
Erica: See, it's supposed to be fifth grade here.
Erica: But then 'Rona.
Erica: So they're doing it in the sixth grade for the kids.
Kenrya: Okay, cool.
Erica: It's more about health. It's about health, but then this is a part of it, because they made you sign some waiver or something. I said, "So what are they talking about in class?" He said, "Wear deodorant." I'm like, "Well I'm glad they're covering that, too."
Kenrya: Good, because y'all stink.
Erica: I'd rather you have lots of discussion around that. Because baby ... yeah. Okay. Our main character, Myla, met this guy. He wasn't put off by her being a virgin, so he became her man. She married him. She found out he was cheating on her. And he gave her chlamydia.
Kenrya: Motherfucker, motherfucker.
Erica: You know what? This reminds me of ...
Kenrya: That happened to me in college.
Erica: We don't get to that. Because yeah, it's one of those things where I remember when I was married, and we were really trying to get pregnant, and I couldn't get pregnant. I just completely remember being like, "But I did everything right." No, and I can only imagine her being like, "I did everything right, I waited till I lost my virginity, and now, this is what happened." I just think, again, this is why this fucking virginity construct just fucking sucks. But yeah, so he cheated on her, gave her a STD. Every time I see save the dates, I think of STD. But yeah, so he gave her an STD. Would you like to share your story?
Kenrya: Sure. In college, fucking around with this dude, we were together. But it was definitely a very on and off for a couple of years in college situation. During one of our breaks, we were still friends, so it wasn't exactly cheating, but also it was lying. He said that he wanted to have sex with his best friend. We weren't together, technically, at this point. We talked about it. This was a person who I had always felt like they had an inappropriate relationship for someone who was in a relationship. And this was very much the beginning of the end. I was like, all right, well we ain't together, whatever. So he went and had sex with her, came back, we ended up getting back together. He had swore up and down that he used condoms, everything else.
Kenrya: Guess who goes in for her annual checkup, wasn't having any symptoms or anything. Just went in for my checkup, and they're like, "You have chlamydia." And I'm like, "What the fuck?" He's the only person I had sex with. He had sworn that he had used condoms with this person. I was dumb enough to believe him. When I said something to him about it he was like, "Well she was a virgin." I was like, "Nigga, she lied to you and you lying to me." I was like, "I could've ended up with pelvic inflammatory disease and been infertile." I had literally no idea. Thank God I regularly get checked for everything.
Erica: Were doing regular checkups and stuff.
Kenrya: Exactly. Because otherwise, I had no symptoms, I would not have known.
Kenrya: So yeah. It wasn't exactly cheating, but it was a lot of lying.
Erica: So you know, I think about two situations. Actually it was with the same guy. But not necessarily an STD, but my health was really fucking bad because of that relationship.
Kenrya: It was.
Erica: I kept getting recurring BV. In my mind it was just like, his sperm throws off my vagina. No, this nigga was sticking his dick in every goddamn thing. Bringing back, you know? Like no, my pussy don't mix with hers, that's what it is.
Kenrya: Yeah, he's throwing your pH off with other pussy.
Erica: Exactly so it was that. Then remember when I had those cysts?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: I totally forgot about it until, as I was working on this. I used to have these, everybody, well not everybody, people with vaginas and vulvas have what are called Bartholin's cysts. These cysts secrete fluids, part of what makes you wet, all of that. I said Bartholin cysts? They're Bartholin glands. I remember one day, I was in this relationship and it was bad relationship.
Erica: On one hand, I want to say I don't want to go as far as saying it was emotionally abusive. But I'll say that.
Kenrya: He was emotionally abusive. He was a fucking asshole.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: Everybody, we just called it as him being an asshole, but he was emotionally abusive.
Kenrya: And he was an asshole to everybody. I hated him. Sorry. I still feel strongly about that.
Erica: I appreciate it. Get you a best friend that hold a grudge better than you do. Okay, I remember, I don't know what, I think we were about to go out of town, it was something was really high stress. We had sex, and I felt like this bump, lump, something down in my vagina. Way down yonder in my pussy hole.
Erica: So I went to the doctor, and she was like, "Yeah, you have a cyst in this Bartholin gland. Sometimes it happens to women, we are going to lance it, drain it, it'll heal, you'll be fine." That shit was like a constant recurrence in my life, for probably about six months to a year, probably maybe even a little longer than that. It was to the point where literally, I was going to the doctor like every two, three months. It was literally a cyst the size of a fucking golf ball in your vagina. It gets so big, it pushes everything else to the side and be hanging out like ... Then it's like, it's a cyst so it's tender and sore, and you can't sit down.
Kenrya: And you have to use the ice packs.
Erica: You've got to wear ...
Kenrya: I remember we discovered that the ones that they give you after you have a baby were perfect.
Kenrya: Because you took all the ones from my house.
Erica: Then when you get it lanced, pretty much they lance it open, then I just had to sit on a fucking pee pad for days.
Kenrya: And like drain, yeah.
Erica: It was the fucking worse. The culmination of it all was, I had to get this surgery. Essentially what they do is cut it open, flip it back, and stitch it open so that it constantly drains. Hello. And then, I don't know if the surgery worked or if the relationship ended, and a bitch got better. But yeah, it was one of those things where I went through so much physical shit from being in this horrible fucking relationship, thinking it was just like ... No, bitch, your body is telling you in every goddamn way possible that this ain't where the fuck you need to be.
Kenrya: Right, body keeps score.
Erica: Right? It's crazy.
Kenrya: It always knows, it always knows. Even when you don't.
Erica: The body keeps the score.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's true.
Kenrya: That's true.
Erica: That was disgusting. I've had relationships where nigga lied and I got burnt.
Kenrya: Which is unfortunately, fucking common.
Erica: Too common and not talked about, right?
Kenrya: Yeah. That's happened to me three times. It also is like, okay. Because you think you're at a point where you can be having safe sex with someone, and not have to worry about that. But you know, niggas lie.
Erica: You're really just taking a chance.
Kenrya: You are.
Erica: So yeah.
Kenrya: A fucking gamble.
Erica: What'd you say?
Kenrya: It's a fucking gamble.
Erica: Yes, like the Tik Tok dance.
Kenrya: I don't know what that is.
Erica: The kids do this.
Kenrya: Do they?
Erica: You a hating-ass hater.
Kenrya: Listen, I don't even know. I don't even know. I feel like if your niece was here though, she would laugh at you.
Erica: Yeah. Hoe phase, post-divorce hoe phase. Our heroine, our main character, she realized she missed out on a lot of shit while she was married. So she said, you know what? I'm going to sample the delights of the world. I'm going to go and sew my royal oats. It made me think about post-divorce rituals, or post-trauma rituals. You know, how you come out of something and then you're like, "This is what I'm going to do."
Kenrya: Like when they cut off they dreads?
Erica: What'd you say?
Kenrya: When they cut they dreads, or they cut their hair.
Erica: Oh my gosh. Yep.
Erica: Again, “Waiting to Exhale,” I didn't understand. I liked the movie as a kid. But now that I'm an adult, nigga I love that movie.
Kenrya: I should watch it again. I mean, I know all the words, I watched it so many times as a kid.
Erica: Watch it as an adult.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:42:41].
Erica: It's going to hit different, as the kids say.
Kenrya: I say, "You raggedy bitch." At least every other week.
Erica: You raggedy bitch. You leather wearing in the summertime motherfucker. Me and my little sister used to say that about one of my aunt's boyfriends. Was it the same one that we cussed out and I sent you the video?
Kenrya: The other day? Yeah.
Erica: On the screenshots? I think it was. It was.
Kenrya: “You say niggas don't know how to treat you.” That's my shit. That movie.
Erica: Yeah. Of course, there is the ... But even think about, remember when the Deltas before us crossed, and then everybody cut their hair? Not everybody, but so many on their line cut their hair?
Kenrya: A lot of them cut their hair.
Erica: And they were like, "Did they do something?" Yeah. I found that.
Erica: But I cut my hair, coming out of my marriage. I think when I cut my hair, it was a sign to my ex-husband that like, this bitch is gone. She for the streets.
Kenrya: He said something in your therapy session, like, “Really, bitch?”
Erica: And she cut her hair. I was like, I'm a bad bitch, bad bitches cut their hair. But yeah, because to me, cutting my hair short was very much when I most felt myself.
Kenrya: Like yourself, yeah. For us it was like, "Oh Erica's back."
Erica: Iconic. Then it was just like, oh she's back. Yeah. When I cut it I was just like, "Yo, I'm ready for ..." I didn't even think of it that way, as like a start. But yeah, it was definitely an, "All right."
Kenrya: I mean, why did you grow your hair out?
Erica: For a nigga.
Erica: Because the nigga said he liked my hair. Yeah. I'd started letting my hair grow out because I was with a dude and he was like ... Same fucking relationship. But yeah, "You should let your hair grow, you should let your hair grow." So I did, thinking I'd fucking please this motherfucker.
Kenrya: You should suck my dick, fuck you.
Erica: I just fucking, the disdain you have is just ... Yeah. Then it was a thing. But no, this is Erica. Even now, as I try to let it grow out, see I have a little shangle dangle right there, hold on, right there.
Kenrya: I see. I see.
Erica: She's like, "Biracial girl. Biracial."
Kenrya: Oh my gosh.
Erica: But yeah, even as I let it grow out, it's only going to get to a certain point, then this is firmly Erica. I'll be that snazzy old aunt, driving her Thunderbird T-top, with her Benson and Hedges, and I might buy myself a cigarette pack. I don't think I'm going to put cigarettes in it, maybe change. But you get what I'm saying.
Kenrya: But it's a cute little, like a little purse that buy. Like a coin purse.
Erica: Definitely A's aesthetic. Fast auntie aesthetic. Now I got the long nails with the rounded tip, not a coffin. Okay yeah, so it made me think about just post-divorce, post trauma rituals, things that we do. I think, we always talk about a hoe phase. Everybody has to go through their hoe phase. Some people aren't meant for hoe phases. I don't think, did you ever have a hoe phase?
Kenrya: Yes I did.
Erica: Your hoe phase you were kissing a lot of boys.
Kenrya: No, bitch.
Erica: My hoe phase, I was having threesomes.
Kenrya: No ma'am, no ma'am. Okay well yes, our hoe phases were different. My hoe phase was after my ex died.
Erica: That was a wild motherfucking time.
Erica: Yes. Yeah. That was a wild time.
Kenrya: Yeah. There was a lot happening. I sewed all the oats in that time.
Erica: All the oats in New York City were sewn. We just going to call you Mrs. Quaker.
Kenrya: And other cities, and other countries.
Erica: Oh God.
Kenrya: Yes, it was a time.
Erica: It was a time.
Kenrya: It was a time.
Erica: What a time to be alive.
Kenrya: Yeah. But before that, I had never felt like it was something that I needed to do. I definitely thought that a hoe phase wasn't a thing that I needed. But I had gotten to a point where I was like, "I don't ever want to be in a relationship again, so I'm just going to be out here fucking these."
Erica: You know, yeah, I think all people go through that. Especially people just coming out of a divorce, they're like, "I'm never getting married again." If I'd known for sure when I got divorced, while I was married I was like, "This shit don't work. I'm done." Right? Then coming out of my marriage I was like, "I'd just rather be the auntie with Mr. Clarence who lives around the corner, and come spend the night. But he got his own place, and auntie got her own place." I think I told you about this, I went to a lunch, to a brunch with a bunch of women who had been married, divorced, and were on their second marriages.
Kenrya: Yeah, totally. Yeah.
Erica: They were like, this shit is pretty damn perfect. Because they were like, "I built this to be exactly what I want it to be, you know?"
Kenrya: You were intentional about creating what you want.
Erica: Yeah. That's the part I look forward to in finding my forever partner, for that shit to be like, good.
Erica: But until then, this pussy's for the streets.
Kenrya: I definitely went through a period where I was like, "I'm good, I'm good." Then I was like, "Dip my toe into dating." Then it was terrible. Then therapy and everything else. And now, fuck. I have so much joy. I don't even want to imagine ...
Erica: But you didn't think that it was possible to get this much joy from a relationship.
Kenrya: I had never experienced this before. Yeah. Well I have a lot of joy in general, but the relationship is a contributing factor, as opposed to something that's dragging my shit down, which is what it used to be.
Erica: Yeah. It's like adding salt. It adds salt to your life. Everything's there, but it just makes you taste it, everything else so much better.
Erica: Yeah. Here Erica go with her food-ass analogies.
Kenrya: Food is delicious.
Erica: I was talking to this chick, one of my breasties. She was like, "All you do is eat." I said, "Yeah." She was like, "I didn't realize that." She said, "I knew you liked to eat when you were talking about, you prefer to have an early morning surgery." Then she was like, "Yeah, I like morning surgeries because the doctor's fresh." I'm like, "No, I don't want to have to wait all day to eat."
Kenrya: You've got to be NPO all day.
Erica: She was like, "You hungry ass. All you do is fucking eat." I was like, "Yeah, girl."
Kenrya: I think that's a good reason, though. Because you're fucking NPO from midnight. Yeah, no, let me get this over with so I can eat.
Erica: Yeah. I come out of surgeries like, "Food."
Kenrya: You do. So we always make sure we coordinate so your ass can eat as soon as you get out.
Erica: Yeah. One time, because you know I have a wheat allergy. So one time I was coming out, and they're like, "You have wheat allergy on your thing, we can't give you these crackers."
Kenrya: Them fucking crackers, you said.
Erica: Bitch you going to give me the motherfucking crackers, or we going to be here fighting, I'm going to flip something. I'm like, crackers and cold apple juice. Okay. So we have a hoe phase, we have cutting hair. What other post-trauma, post-divorce rituals?
Kenrya: I think folks go on trips, like girls’ trips kind of a thing.
Erica: Yep. I'm doing my Eat Pray Love.
Kenrya: Exactly. I don't know. What else do people do?
Erica: Jump into shitty relationships.
Kenrya: A friend of a friend did that, and then I got a text saying that it was over and I cheered.
Kenrya: Yeah. I was so very glad to hear that.
Erica: I think when I first started dating post-divorce, I did meet some nice guys. Some were kind of weird, but I did meet some nice guys. I remember being very clear about the fact that girl, this shit ain't going to last. Not, I knew it had an expiration date. But I knew this shit wasn't going to last. Because I was like, "Bitch you going through some shit. This ain't going to be the same." So yeah. Haircut, and trying to think if there's anything else, anything interesting that I've heard about.
Kenrya: I remember going back into my wardrobe and pulling out the color. I hadn't realized how drab, you know what I mean?
Kenrya: Here we are, call me Kenrya 2.0. I just started dressing again, and wearing lipstick. I hadn't been wearing makeup. I mean I never wear anything but lipstick, but I hadn't been doing any of those things. I very much was like, "I'm still this person."
Kenrya: I don't have to be ... So I pulled out all my lips, and pulled out the clothes I loved, and got back to myself in a lot of ways.
Erica: Because I think that there's a point where you want to connect with that person that you were. But then you've also got to match up with that person that's learned so much from this situation. Then that makes you Kenrya 2.0, or Thick and Juicy 2.0.
Kenrya: Yes. Spoke that shit into existence.
Erica: I did. So when I was in college, I was rail thin. I had abs. I was like a stick. And the running joke among all my friends was that I was thick and juicy. I'd call myself thick and juicy, I'd get drunk, I go out, I meet men. What's your name? Thick and Juicy. They was like, "What?"
Kenrya: There was no thickness, there was no juice.
Erica: One of my linesisters used to call me Thin and Dry. She's like, "Okay, Thin and Dry." Yeah.
Kenrya: You got your grown woman weight, you spoke that shit into existence.
Erica: I spoke that shit into existence.
Kenrya: Got an ass you ain't have.
Erica: Now, I got a wagon that I'm dragging. Cheaters. Have you ever cheated? Or do you want to plead the fifth?
Kenrya: Yeah, no, I cheated once.
Kenrya: I did. Story. So I was in a long distance relationship, and the guy was in law school. You know him well. It was the end of his freshman year. You know in law school, they only ... Are you serious? You can't think of who this person is?
Erica: Keep talking, keep talking.
Kenrya: Lord have mercy. They only have exams at the end of the year.
Erica: Is that the one with the white girl?
Kenrya: Who is that? Just think about it. So I went to go visit across the country for just a regular visit. And I remember the moment when I decided I was done, he was talking about, that there was some book he was supposed to have for class, and he was like, "I mean, why I got to buy it if I can just get somebody to give it to me?" I remember in that moment being like, "This nigga's lazy, and he gon be lazy forever." In my mind, in that moment, I decided that this relationship was over. But he was getting ready to go into finals.
Erica: Was this the one that didn't eat pussy?
Erica: Yeah. With the white girl.
Kenrya: Well he did, but he complained about it. No, he's not married to a white girl. I'll tell you later.
Erica: Yeah, we don't have to do it. I was going to tell you to just hold up a sign, but nevermind.
Kenrya: So I fly back to New York. I can't. I fly back to New York and I'm like, "All right, this is over, but I'm going to let him rock and let him finish his finals." I'm like, "I don't want to drop this on him as he's trying to study and prepare. Because you know, I'm a nice person." Meanwhile, there had been somebody who had been sniffing around for quite some time, very much on this, "If I was your nigga, I would never ..." in my ear all the time.
Erica: Niggas is the worst.
Kenrya: I was just like, well, yeah. I was like, in my mind it was over. Yeah. It was wrong, because we were still together. But also I was literally just biding my time until he called and said he was done with his last exam. So I went over to nigga's house, and it was definitely a mid-20's, early 20's, however the fuck old I was situation. There was a lackluster massage. There was a, "You've got to take off your shirt because [crosstalk 00:55:51]."
Erica: [crosstalk 00:55:52].
Kenrya: Yeah. So that was that. I did it. Whatever. Yeah, I kind of felt bad. But honestly, not really. Because in my mind, it was over, and I wasn't doing anything to grow the relationship. I was just waiting. A week later, he was done. Called him up and was like, "This ain't going to work. We ain't the same. We should end this." And he basically was like, "Okay." I was like, "Thank you for making this shit easy. I guess I should've told your raggedy ass a week ago."
Kenrya: Then I went ahead and had this blemish on my record.
Erica: So it's a blemish with an asterisk, okay?
Erica: You know.
Kenrya: Then that was that. That was it. That's my cheating story. That's the one time I ever cheated on anybody. You?
Erica: All right, next?
Erica: I'm not going to say that I'm a cheater. But I will say that I have cheated in the past.
Kenrya: Cheating has happened?
Erica: Yeah. I'm trying to think of a situation that I can tell, that won't leave me. That will keep ... There have been situations in which I've cheated, let me just say that. Most of them have been, the relationship was almost over. And we was just holding on to each other. I think if he found out that I had cheated, he'd be like, "All right, I was, too."
Erica: Not that it makes it any better, because it's still dishonest. I'm not a cheater now. Well, no one is a cheater. I don't cheat now. I'd just rather be like, "Look, this ain't working." But to say that I haven't in the past would be a big-ass lie, don't stand next to me, because I would get struck down by our Lord and Savior. Okay. What'd you say?
Kenrya: Welp. I said, "Welp."
Erica: Well, with that, I think that wraps up this part of the story. This part of the episode. Do you have anything else to add, Kenrya?
Kenrya: No, we've got to go pay some bills right quick.
Erica: Yep, and we'll be back.
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Kenrya: What's turning us on?
Kenrya: Did I get that right that time?
Erica: We're going to talk about ...
Kenrya: What's turning us on.
Erica: No, you didn't do it, okay. Five, six, seven, eight. We're back, and we're going to talk about ...
Kenrya: What's turning us on.
Erica: Okay. We're keeping all that shit in here. Okay. So y'all, today, what's turning us on. Okay. We went to the only and most important HBCU in the world, Howard University, right?
Kenrya: We can't say that.
Erica: So we went to a very important HBCU. The world would be without ...
Kenrya: They're all important.
Erica: The world would be without certain people, certain greats, if it weren't for ...
Erica: ... the mixing pot that is known as Howard University. Anyway, so one of my HU classmates recently started making candles. And in addition to just regular old candles that smell good, she started doing massage candles. I fucking love these. They smell good. You burn them, they make the whole house smell good. You go like this. Well, okay, I learned with massage candles, I used to just do this and dump it on a nigga's back. Ain't supposed to, my bad. Rub it in your hand, you put it, then go like this. And you do a massage. Don't do one of these. I stick my dick in? Okay. Don't do, "Can I stick my dick in?" But this is a really great massage oil. It smells good, it feels good, and it is created by, I'm sorry you can tell I've been using mine, is created by a Black woman.
Erica: So if you want a sexy massage candle, she has a bunch of smells. Flavors.
Erica: A bunch of smells from vanilla to strawberry to come smell like a man, to whatever.
Erica: She ain't got a, you don't call it come smell like a man. But whatever.
Kenrya: I'm like, “What is that smell?”
Erica: But you know, more masculine, earthy tones. So she has a really dope website. She sells the massage candles and also a few other things. But the massage candle's what sent you. So we will include a link in our show notes, if you are interested, and go hit her up.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's what's up.
Erica: All righty. I think that wraps up this week's episode.
Kenrya: We done.
Erica: We out, motherfuckers. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. Ding ding ding ding ding ding.
Kenrya: You're trying to fade it out.
Erica: Bitch, you're not supposed to be talking while I fade it out. Bye y'all. Oh, this is Erica and Kenrya, two hoes making it clap. Ding ding ding ding ding ding.
Erica: Turn it off.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now on your favorite podcast app, and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod, and on Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: Don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.
Erica: You can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch, or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.