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In Episode 4 of The Turn On, we read an excerpt from "Awakening," the first book in Rebel Miller's Realm series, "forbidden" love and the times we've talked ourselves into trouble.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Welcome to this week's episode of the Turn On. We're reading Awakening by Rebel Miller. It was published in 2015. This story has a lot going on. We're going to read an excerpt from a larger book. The larger book is a part of a series. All of it has a lot going on. We'll get into that in a little bit. We don't want to give too much away in order to...
Kenrya: Leave you with surprise and wonder.
Erica: Leave you with something to wonder about and a reason to read the series. Nonetheless-
Kenrya: Yeah, it's a speculative fiction.
Erica: It's a speculative fiction piece, and we're about to get started. So sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, your accoutrements, and enjoy.
Kenrya: Awakening by Rebel Miller.
Kenrya: "What do you want?"
Kenrya: "I want you."
I stared at him, mouth agape. He'd obviously lost his mind so I need to spell things out for him. "Gannon," I began cautiously, "senators don't have relationships with subordinates. They have affairs and liaisons, which are kept secret." Anger rose within me as I reminded him of the reality of our worlds. "I won't be used that way and it offends me that you would seriously suggest it."
"That's easy for you to say."
"Rules are made to be broken, Kira," he growled out.
I gave him a pitying look, "Gannon, please. The fact that you think I would use you..." Gannon turned on his heel, but abruptly stopped part way to face me once again.
"Is it only my status that's the problem?"
"What else would it be?"
"What about Tai?"
I glanced away. "Tai doesn't want me," I said with a shrug of feigned nonchalance. I love Tai, but he didn't love me so I would have to find a way to deal with that.
"I want you and I know you want me."
I threw my hands in the air, "We're going around in circles, Gannon. Okay, yes. I want you more than I want to admit. I'm so blasted desperate for you at times I can't even think straight and it confuses me, but we can't have anything more than this, whatever this is."
His eyes glittered in the dim light of the room as he approached me slowly, his head cocked. "You're desperate for me?"
I couldn't help but roll my eyes. "That's what you took away from what I said?"
He came to stand in front of me, his chest brushing against my breasts as his lips curved into a smirk. "Desperate I can work with." He suddenly appeared his usual self, powerful, arrogant, and in control, three characteristics that made me weak when it came to Gannon Consul. My heart lept, even as I started to turn my head away. He placed a head at the nape of my neck, stopping me. Watching me closely, he eased his hand into the back of my hair, kneading the small muscles of my scalp as he went.
I tried to muffle a sigh of pleasure and ended up groaning instead. I closed my eyes, pushing the back of my head against the steady pressure of his exploring fingers. "I shouldn't be allowing you to do this," I whispered as I opened my eyes.
A few moments later, Gannon moved his hands back to my neck, then around my shoulders, and massaged away the tension of the minsters meeting and the argument with Tai. His steady touch lulled me into a sense of security. I closed my eyes, startled when Gannon's hands curved around my back and he pulled me flush against him. He stared at me with a farrow and hungry expression. I tried to lean back, wanting to resist the way the warmth of his body drew me in, but he held me in a firm embrace.
"Tell me you want me."
I shook my head, biting down hard on my bottom lip. He narrowed his eyes as his heart pounded heavily just above my breasts. After a long moment considering me, he lowered his mouth. My body readied itself immediately for his kiss, softening and leaning into him. I sighed as I raised my mouth, and with a heavy dose of shame, flushed when he dipped his head to place a light kiss at my cheek instead. Halls, could I be an easier conquest?
He chuckled. "Are you still trying to deny what's between us?" He asked when he licked just below my jaw. "Tell me what you want."
I sighed. "I want you to kiss me." He nipped my neck with the edge of his teeth.
"No, you want more than that. Tell me," he demanded.
My body trembled at the steel in his voice. I started to pant, my lungs trying to stay ahead of my leaping pulse. Its pace only increased when he ran his tongue over my lips, giving me a taste of what I wanted but refused stubbornly to admit. All above, I wanted to be a stronger woman, but the man I had loved for years didn't want me. The one I couldn't stop thinking about was more than willing to have me. In that moment, I was tired of fighting him. Gannon understood the terms of our reality as well as I did, maybe even more. I would take what he was offering and enjoy it for what it was.
Leaning back, I held his gaze and took a deep breath. "I want you to fuck me." I barely got the words out before he captured my mouth with his. He moved both hands to the sides of my face, holding me in place. Instantly, I was lost to an overwhelming assault of his crisp and sharp taste. Gasping, I grabbed the front of his shirt to steady myself as he forced me to walk backward. At the same time, I ran my hands over the front of his chest to locate each of the buttons of his jacket. I blindly opened them and then groaned when I found a shirt underneath. "Too many clothes," I complained as his teeth grazed my lips.
He grunted and stopped our blind trek. We continued kissing, even as he removed the shirt swiftly, his moves as agitated as mine had been. I trailed trembling hands along his jaw and into the lushness of his hair. When he'd free himself from the clothing, he tackled the buttons running down the front of my dress. I had taken special care when getting dressed that morning, wanting to be sure that I looked as professional and capable as possible. My knee-length black dress was sleek and sophisticated, its only embellishment a woven belt that buckled to the side. I thought it looked smart and gave me a proficient air. Gannon couldn't have cared less.
I stood panting into the heat of his kisses while he tugged at the buttons, most surviving his onslaught while the rest made rapping sounds as they fell to the wood floors. Soon I took matters into my own hands and managed to remove my belt without it coming to any harm. Gannon leaned back, his eyes shown bright as they ran down the length of my body. Now that my dress had been wrangled open, I allowed it to fall from my shoulders and stood before him in my bra, panties, sheer black leggings, and high heel boots.
Nostrils flared, he swallowed hard before placing a hand against the floor to ceiling window behind me and pushing me harshly against it. I jolted upon impact, arching away from the coolness of the glass at my back. He surged forward, capturing my mouth once again.
"Did I hurt you?"
I shook my head, lowering my eyes to his chest and drinking in the sight of him with sputtering breaths. I'd known Gannon was fit, but I hadn't realized just how much his clothing hid from my imagination. I splayed my fingers, running them along the thick planes of muscle along his arms, shoulder, and chest. His breath hitched as I trailed a path across his nipples and down to a taut waist that looked to be carved out of stone. I circled his navel and ran my tongue along my bottom lip as I imagine licking him there.
Gannon's hold on my waist tightened sharply. I glanced up to find him staring at me with a hunger that sent a shiver up my spine. If he was intimidating before, watching the transformation that came over him when lust came to life between us was nothing short of heart-stopping. Face tense, he brought up his wrist to my eye level. "My health data is current. I can show you." I smiled when he showed me the information on his comm.
"Thank you," I said, suddenly shy. "I'm on birth control." I moved to show him my own record of health, but he stopped me by sliding a hand around my neck and running a thumb along my jaw.
"I trust you," he said. The flickering lights coming through the window reflected in his eyes, changing them from silver blue to sea blue and everything in between. The hand resting behind me lowered to unclasp my bra. I shifted to let it join my dress on the floor. Gannon parted his lips as he placed a hand under one of my breast, feeling its heavy weight and molding it as he thumbed the puckered nipple. I sighed at the intensity of the sensation that swept through me. My skin was on fire, kindling, burning for release.
No doubt Gannon could feel the scorching heat assailing my body. He closed his eyes briefly, and the look he gave me when he re-opened them was almost hostile. He kissed me then, taking my lips so harshly that they were sure to be bruised the next day. The thought of being marked by his passion sent unexpected thrill through me. Gannon forced his way past my lips and licked forcefully to gain entry. Still stroking my breast, he raised his other hand to my hair, his fingers curling into it tightly. I cringed at the bite of pain, but my heart sped when he soothed my scalp with a knowing touch soon after. I lapped after his tongue on my own, trying to taste every part of him.
Suddenly he shifted and placed his hands behind my thighs, lifting me off the ground. As he licked deeper into my mouth, our tongues danced around each other. Meanwhile, I clawed at his back, trying to get closer, even though we were already skin to skin. Gannon turned and carried me the short distance to his dimly-lit bedroom. I reveled in the pressure of his weight on me as he lowered us to the bed.
Now cradling him between my hips, I became desperate to feel him inside me and writhed against his heavy arousal, but Gannon's hand was suddenly at my hip, holding me still. "Don't move," he said tightly, giving me a desperate look that flooded my brain with a new wave of heat. Responding to the desire evident in his gaze, I ran my hands over his chest and down his waist. A thrill of anticipation blazed through me as I reached for the thickness of his cock.
I frowned when Gannon grabbed my hands and pressed them beside my head. "Don't move these either." He threw me a curious look before he leaned over me, pressing me deep into the bed. Gannon kissed and licked every inch of skin down by neck and across my chest. He lapped at my breasts, making me gasp when he nipped at their puckered buds. I lifted my head, wanting to watch him as he owned my body, but I couldn't see him through his disheveled hair.
Without thinking, I smoothed it back. I had only a moment to relish the cool locks between my fingers before Gannon landed a swift slap on my thigh. The stinging pain that bloomed made me cry out. He considered me carefully, "You moved," he said by way of explanation. I stared at him, not sure what to make of the slap, his nonchalance, or the way my body ignited in response to both.
Holding his gaze, I slowly lifted my hand, lifting it beside my head once again. I realized that he wanted me available to him at his mercy and waiting for his direction. Somewhere inside me, I thought I should have felt affronted, but who was I fooling? I wasn't a virgin. I have friends who desired a bit of pain and aggression with their sex. I just had never believed myself to be like them. It seemed Gannon had awakened a need inside me that had lain dormant, seeking the right circumstance or person to give it reason to rise.
Gannon grinned wickedly as he pushed up and off of me to stand beside the bed, dragging my legs and panties with him as he went. When he reached my boots, he unzipped them and tugged everything off. I only had to lift my hips to help him. He seemed more than capable in this area. My eyes narrowed as he started to unbuckle his pants. A man of Gannon's stature and looks probably has more than one of these liaisons going on at any one time. The thought had popped into my mind many times before, and I found comfort in it as I deflected his advances, but now as I lay before him naked in his private apartment, waiting for him to fuck me as I requested, no, as I had begged him to, it stung. "Grow up, Metallurgist." I knew what this was. I wouldn't let my heart get involved, and surely Gannon wouldn't.
I didn't have time to follow the unsettling turn of my thoughts further after Gannon finally stood completely naked before me. My mouth went dry. I clenched my hands, fighting off the urge to reach for him. The rest of him was even more imposingly beautiful than I'd anticipated. His cock was long, thick, and so hard it curved up to tap against his taut belly. Roughly, he ran a hand along the length of it, stroking it from root to tip, where a pearly gleam glistened and beckoned.
I pressed my lips together, anxious to get started, to feel deep inside me the power that radiated off him. I glanced up to find his eyes roving over my breasts and waist to land between my thighs where I enjoyed the heat of his gaze. He climbed back onto the bed, running a hand up my inner thigh as he approached.
"Dai, t'au falahra," he muttered, almost reverently. I only needed to know the meaning of falahra to know that he was admiring me, calling me beautiful. I flushed at the sound of the foreign language on his tongue. It was one of the sexiest things I'd ever heard. Desperate, I opened my thighs wider, seeking to entice him, since I couldn't touch him and bend him to my will. My body rejoiced the moment he took my mouth, igniting the very core of me.
The ache between my legs deepened agonizingly, making me so wet I was certain he could smell my arousal. When he dragged his blunt fingers through the slick folds of my sex, I couldn't stand it anymore. I thrust both my hands into his hair, pulling him down to me. For a few, exhilarating seconds, I sucked greedily at his lips, his tongue, and the skin around his mouth, trying to taste as much as I could.
Though he had promised it, I still cried out in surprise when he slapped me again, this time much harder and on the other thigh. I squeezed my eyes shut and panted through the pain and groaned as it faded into a dull heat. Gannon ran a palm over the tingling spot on my thigh.
"You okay?" I opened my eyes to find him watching me. From his careful expression, I knew he was wondering whether I was still with him, whether I could handle it. I licked my lips.
"You seem so much stronger than that."
Gannon's nostrils flared as deep satisfaction filled his face. He kissed me with a new sense of urgency and repositioned himself and ran his arms up mine and grabbed my wrist. Finally, I felt his cock nudge at my sex. With a quick shift in position, he thrust into me so hard I bounced up the bed. I cried out, clenching my fists as I tightened around every inch he buried inside me.
"Fuck," he growled out as I became more frantic in response to his thrust. He ran a hand along the side of my neck, his fingers stroking firmly against my pulse. My heart stuttered and I gasped. A second later, I calmed down enough for him to regain control of our pace.
"Gannon," I begged.
"I know, lahra," he said. I flushed when he used the endearing abbreviation of falahra. He thrust again, my body clenched around his cock so tightly I felt tears well into my eyes. Gannon's deep groan vibrated through the bed.
All of a sudden, an unwanted thought entered my mind. What if I couldn't reach orgasm? I would be mortified and inconsolable. I'd been close before during sex, never as close as this, but it was a possibility all the same. I squeezed my eyes shut, trying to drive away the idea.
"Look at me," Gannon said, his chest laboring. I dragged my lids open. "I want your eyes on me when you cum." He stared into my eyes as he forced himself deeper still on his next thrust. I nodded reflexively, wondering how to manage that feat. If he got me to orgasm, I would probably lose all control of my body's coordination. I was nearly incoherent with arousal as it was.
As soon as the thought entered my mind, I felt a flutter deep within me. I grasped at it desperately, knowing that I was almost there. Gannon must have sensed how near I was to the edge, his pace increased and strengthened. He was a piston, fucking in and out of my body so hard I thought I would combust for the sheer ferocity of his thrust.
Suddenly, I felt him stiffen and lengthen almost painfully inside me. "Kira," he whispered hoarsely. His movements became less coordinated above me, so I took advantage of his lack of control to slip my hand into his hair. I grabbed a fist full of it pulling his mouth back to mine. He groaned just as I felt my body tighten and splinter into the most achingly deep orgasm I had ever had.
I cried out his name as he pounded into me again and again. His body shook as he forced himself ever deeper inside me, the power of his orgasm visible in every vein standing in relief along his neck and shoulders. He collapsed on top of me. I threw my arms around him, holding him close as the wake of our orgasms rippled through our bodies.
Eventually, after an exquisitely long time, our breathing and pulses slowed. Gannon eased up and rested a cheek on one of his fists as he stared down at me. Using his other hand, he traced undefined shapes onto my shoulder. I smiled at him. Gods, he was so beautiful, a stunning sculpture come to life. His meandering gaze met my own, pinning me into the bed. The way he looked at me both confused and electrified me. This is just a temporary diversion. I repeated the phrase over and over in my head, holding onto it.
I fidgeted a bit under his weight, and he shifted his hips, dragging his cock out of me as he moved to rest at my side. He was still hard, which was only mildly surprising me. He was the most virile man I had ever had sex with. "You certainly know how to get your way, don't you?" I murmured, running a finger along the side of his face and up across his hairline.
He smiled them planted a loud kiss on my mouth. "Female citizens everywhere must have stories to tell, I added." His smile slipped a bit. "I guess when you can give orgasms like that, I shouldn't be surprised," I said, watching his hair fall through my fingers. "Thank you." I looked into his eyes to find his gaze had shuddered. I stayed my hand. "What?"
"Are you thanking me for fucking you?"
"That's not what I..."
"Then what did you mean?"
I hesitated. Telling him he'd finally given me the type of orgasm I'd been searching for didn't seem to be a remark he would approve of, and truthfully, it wasn't the reason I thanked him. I was trying to put distance between us to remind him and myself both that this was only temporary, for fun.
He pushed himself off me to sit at the edge of the bed. For a full minute, he sat in silence, looking away from me with his hands clenched. He seemed to be caught in a deep struggle with himself. I laid behind him, feeling the need to do something, but afraid to say anything. The tension in the room elevated with our every breath. Finally, he turned to me on a heavy breath as though he had come to some difficult decision.
"I guess that will have to be enough," he said before pressing his body on top of me and easing into me again.
Erica: Welcome back. That was Awakening by Rebel Miller this was a hot and steamy one. So the first thing that stood out to me was this... Well, you know what? Before we get into this scene, Kenrya, will you set the scene and just kind of give us a little bit of background on the story itself?
Kenrya: Sure. So as you mentioned at the top of the show, this book is part of a series, and it's the Realm series, and it's speculative fiction, so it's like fiction of a future world. The people in this world look all kinds of ways. So Kira is a Black woman. She's on the cover. It's clear when they describe her, she's Black. Her boss is blue and has blond hair. People look all kinds of ways, so race isn't necessarily a thing. They just describe how they look.
Kenrya: In the Realm, there's lots of different worlds, and that's why there's lots of different types of people, because they all come from different worlds and they mix. Kira is part of a caste that is thought of as being lower on the hierarchy within this world.
Erica: So within the Realm, there are castes.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: So Kira is in a lower caste, and Gannon, whose last name is Consul, because that's the level that he sits at. It's like his family job. It's like back when people used to be-
Erica: So it's like a ruling class or something?
Kenrya: Kira's last name is Metallurgist, which you hear her refer to herself as at one point when she's telling herself to calm down. So that's her family work or whatever. It's like back in the day when if you were a blacksmith, that was your-
Erica: The Indian's caste system.
Kenrya: No, like in America where back in the day if you were a Blacksmith, that was your last name-
Kenrya: ... because that's what the fuck you did. Exactly. So she has this one person, Tai, who is a family friend who she is in love with. We hear her talking about that. He does actually love her, but he is reluctant to develop anything with her because of the family ties. Then you have Gannon, who she met at work, who clearly wants to have some type of relationship with her. You got to read the book to find out what kind of relationship. So she is struggling even in this scene, even as she is in the act of having sex with the way that she feels about both of these men.
Erica: So what stood out to me first was that this was a forbidden love or a forbidden tryst.
Kenrya: Yeah, in her mind, because they are not of the same caste.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah, and throughout the entire situation, even if she's enjoying it, she's talking herself out of it. She just can't get out of her head to just enjoy what the hell's going on.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Have you ever had a situation like that?
Kenrya: I think those are two different questions. All right. One of them is have I ever been in a situation that felt forbidden? No. I don't think I have. I have been in situations where I had to ask somebody permission about whether or not I could move forward. I'm a grownup, so I did.
Kenrya: Have I been in situations that I thought was bad for me? Is that the other part?
Erica: Well, not even that was bad for you, but just your... Well yeah, that you had to talk yourself out of, that you wanted to talk yourself out of, or you had to talk yourself through, not even out of, but just through the situation.
Kenrya: Sure, but it was in my 20s, so the talking didn't stick and I ended up going forward with some fuck shit.
Erica: Well, I was going... Before I even answered a question, I was going to put all your business out and say even like this relationship now that you're in, like when you're coming out of a bad or a toxic or dysfunctional relationship and you go onto something new, don't you find yourself even now with your current partner... I roll my eyes because she calls him her partner. That's some total Realm shit, like, "This is my partner. We sync bands."
Erica: But anyway.
Kenrya: No, it is some I don't really fuck with the patriarchy or gender roles or norms, and I don't like the idea of... And I'm grown, so saying I have a boyfriend is dumb.
Erica: Don't yuck my yum, bitch.
Kenrya: To me, sorry.
Erica: No, your little man friend.
Kenrya: As somebody's auntie would say.
Erica: Yeah, your little man friend. But like I think that good, bad, or indifferent, you talk yourself through, "Okay, calm down, self."
Kenrya: Right, "This is not a red flag actually. This is,"-
Erica: Or this is a red flag.
Kenrya: Or it is a red flag and-
Erica: Or this is something, put a note in it. We need to talk about this later to figure out what color flag this is.
Kenrya: Yes. A lot of it I think is me trying to make sure that I'm not falling into old habits and making sure that I am turning a clear eye to my current situation and not letting it be colored by past things, right? It's like when they're going to fuck up, let them fuck up on his own merits, not on somebody else's, right?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: So what works for me is not just talking to myself, which I do talk myself through it, but I also talk to you about it. I talk to my therapist about it, and probably just as importantly is I talk to him about it. So if there's something that makes me feel like, "Huh, okay."
Kenrya: Then I have a conversation with him about it and I ask questions. I don't assume, and I don't keep the conversation internal where shit can lead you to chasing your tail. You know? I ask questions and I try to get it out. So yes, I guess so. What about you?
Erica: I think that... Yeah. I talk to myself all the time, and I find myself quite interesting.
Erica: In the past, I found myself talking myself into or out of a situation, just like, "This ain't right. Don't do it. Don't do it," but post-divorce, particularly early on when I was first just getting my feet wet, well, just getting my pussy wet, well, it stayed wet, but y'all know what I'm talking about.
Kenrya: Whomp, whomp.
Erica: You find yourself in a first... I remember the first situation that I was kind of dealing with. It was a lot of, "Okay, what are you doing? Do you like this? Where are we going with this? How about we not trip about where we're going? How about we just enjoy the fact that he likes to do..."
Erica: So yeah, I found myself talking to myself. But in an act while we're doing the do, yeah, I talk to myself all the time.
Kenrya: Do you?
Erica: Well, no, let me not say that. I hit a point where I talk to myself, and then there's a point where I just shut that off, because it's just like, "Okay, girl, let's..." I think so much of sex and sexual experience is just about being in the moment.
Kenrya: Yeah, being present.
Erica: And enjoying it and being present and just, "How does this hand feel on this titty right now?" As opposed to being like, "The hand is coming to the titty. The hand is coming to the titty. It's coming!."
Kenrya: "Ah, it's here!" Yeah.
Erica: So yeah. Up and to a certain point, I'm talking to myself like, "Okay, girl," because we were talking about in the other episode about how you get to a point where you're having foreplay, doing whatever, it's fun. It's like, "Okay."
Kenrya: "Let's go. Let's go."
Erica: "Let's do it. Stick it in." So I think once I get to the, "Okay, this is fun. Let's,"-
Kenrya: You can shut it off, yeah.
Erica: Yeah, I shut it off and I'm like, "Bow chicka wow wow."
Kenrya: Are you now, just like that?
Erica: Well, it's more of a... Less of a slow and sultry, more of an uptempo kind of situation.
Kenrya: Yeah, little a ditty. So in that vein, I don't have conversations with myself about, "What is this? Where are we going?" Not the greater relationship kind of things. By the time I'm having sex, I'm not thinking about that.
Kenrya: But what trips me up was something that was happening with her. So earlier in the book at some point, she's having sex and she can't cum. So when she was thinking about it with him, that was really a call back to it, because she really has trouble getting there. So she was starting to worry about it in her head, which we know can keep you from actually coming. That is something that I have done to myself before where-
Erica: So fixated on, "Am I going to cum?" That you don't?
Kenrya: Yeah, because I have to focus in on it, right? For it to happen, but it has to really be focused in on, "Okay, this feels like this. Ooh, that feels like that." It can't be, "Ah, fuck, I've been up here doing this little move for 10 minutes. This is usually what makes me cum. This is my guaranteed, and I haven't cum yet. Fuck. Is it going to be another two minutes? Is he going to stay hard in this position? Because this is definitely more for me than it is for him. Do I need to do a little bit of fluffing?" You know what I mean?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Then all of that is going through my head, and later, he... It's like my current partner can see it. He'll be like, "Stop. Focus. Focus. Focus."
Erica: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. oh my gosh.
Kenrya: Because I will literally be psyching myself out.
Erica: Analyzing that whole situation.
Kenrya: Yes, because I'm worried I'm not going to... What's crazy is I'm not actually that concerned with coming. I very much am the... Yeah, I know. She's looking at me crazy.
Erica: Oh my gosh.
Kenrya: Well no, because I know... Here's the thing. I know I'm always going to cum at some point in some way, right? That's going to happen. But I am okay, if it doesn't happen in the morning session, it'll happen in the evening session. I got a pretty good batting average. But every now and then if it just feels really elusive, I'll get kind of stuck on the treadmill of it all. Yeah.
Erica: Oh yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah, but in general, I am very much of the journey is important to me kind of girl.
Erica: Oh totally.
Kenrya: Yeah, so if I'm having a fucking fantastic journey but I don't fall off the cliff, I'm okay with that, because I'm going to fall off the cliff next time.
Erica: No. No, if I'm having a journey-
Kenrya: No? You need to go off the cliff every time.
Erica: ... and I don't fall off the cliff, once you fall off the cliff, I'm going to push myself off the cliff. I've had multiple times where I've been like, "Okay. I got to finish myself off."
Kenrya: Oh yeah.
Erica: And I did.
Kenrya: I've done that before.
Erica: Oh, I do.
Kenrya: But it's been a while.
Erica: Yeah. Now I'm like, "Look, we..." Well yeah. I try to... Because sex is for us, not just for you or not just for me.
Kenrya: That's right.
Erica: So we both got to finish. Sometimes it might have been sex... A lot of times, you don't... I do cum vaginally most of the time, because I know what to do and how to move you in order to make me cum vaginally, but a lot of times I've cum a couple times off of head before we even get to the in and out part of the situation. So I'm okay with that, if you've made me cum off of head. Then you can get yours. But I refuse to be in a situation where you get yours and I didn't get mine.
Kenrya: See, if I were in a... I'm not saying this is the situation you're in. But if I were in an, "I took this nigga home and we," like a one-off situation, then yes. You're not getting up.
Erica: You were here for a reason.
Erica: Oh, you thought I brought you here for sandwiches? No. No. Uh-uh.
Kenrya: No. No.
Erica: You came home for tacos.
Kenrya: Exactly. But if I'm in a situation where I'm getting it this afternoon, I'm going to get it tonight, I'm going to get it in the morning, I have been known to even forego the penetrative just because, you know what? As I've talked before about I like the control of making a man cum. So we will do the foreplay, and then I will refuse to stop the foreplay and finish the situation. They get to cum. They are also very upset a little bit, because I didn't, and they're a caring partner, but he's extra determined later on.
Erica: Make it happen.
Kenrya: I'm playing the long game.
Erica: You're playing a long game. Okay, okay, okay. I like it.
Kenrya: Yeah, and I like... Because then there's this added build up and anticipation for me for the rest of the day, because I know what's going to happen later on in the day.
Erica: You walk around like, "dink dink dink dink dink dink"
Erica: "He going to put it on me. dink dink dink."
Kenrya: Because he's just a little bit mad because I ignored him and kept going. Yeah. It works really well for me. But then there's also the fact that when I do cum, it's usually several times. So it's not... I ain't got no shortage of orgasms, okay? I am blessed.
Erica: Must be nice. Must be... No, I too. So-
Kenrya: Wait, but that to say, that's me now, and that's me probably for the last, I don't know, the last few years, but me when I was super young, early on in my sexual career, and didn't necessarily always know, like you were saying that you know what angle to put this part in what position, what angle, what's going to help you to get there, I think Kira in this story is very young. So she hasn't gotten... She don't know how her pussy work. She hasn't gotten to the point where she knows what works well for her and how to make that happen. So that is why she is in this situation where she's not cumming. It's because she doesn't really know how to yet.
Erica: Which is why I'd like to take a commercial break and discuss the importance of sex toys.
Kenrya: We were just talking to one of our friends about this.
Erica: I think it's so important for women to...
Kenrya: You got to spend time with yourself.
Erica: Yeah, you got to spend time with yourself. I don't say you have to have toys, but toys are really helpful, because you learn more about yourself and how to do and what to do in order to bring yourself to an orgasm. I think also, I probably, especially as a young woman, probably would have been less likely to jump into fucking some rando-
Kenrya: If you knew that you could get it on your own.
Erica: ... if I knew I could do it myself and how to make it happen. When I orgasmed with guys when I was a little young whipper-snapper, a young tenderoni, well, I wasn't a tenderoni, because I wasn't making myself come. You reach tenderoni status when you can cum at will.
Kenrya: Oh really?
Erica: Yeah. That's in the handbook.
Kenrya: Got you.
Erica: But when I was younger, I just wasn't sure. It would happen and be like, "Oh shit, hey."
Kenrya: Right, you just happened to hit the-
Erica: "Glad you came," you know?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: "Glad you showed up." But it wasn't like I knew how to make it happen. Then...
Kenrya: Now you get to the point, I know for me, I don't even really finish a song.
Erica: Right? I know how the pre-check-
Kenrya: The button to hit.
Erica: ... in the pre-check lane to Orgasmville.
Erica: I know how to get there immediately. I usually don't hack it unless I'm sleepy and just trying to get to bed, but I think it's so important for us to normalize sex toys and get little vibrator-
Kenrya: And self-pleasure.
Erica: ... or a rabbit or something so that you know, "Maybe I know I need to focus on my clit. Maybe I need to go deeper for the G-spot. This is where the G-spot is. This is the position that the dick has to hit in order to hit my G-spot. All of that. I think it's so important.
Kenrya: Absolutely. You know when you're... What was it? It was fourth grade in my school where they split us up, the boys, the assigned gender, and the folks who are assigned girls, and we're in separate rooms.
Erica: And all we learned about was fucking tampons and pads.
Kenrya: Yes. Yes.
Erica: Teach them about a clit.
Kenrya: Right. Then so fifth grade, we had sex ed and we were all together. We had a question box where you could anonymously ask questions or whatever, but we didn't know what to ask. I remember at one point, or maybe it was in one of those little books that they gave you that were really just shilling for feminine hygiene products, like to try to steer you toward a brand. But I remember they would always tell you, "Take a mirror and look so that you can know where everything is and where it's coming out of."
Erica: Ain't know point in knowing where it is if you don't know what it do.
Kenrya: If you don't know how to... Exactly. So my point is at that point, we should also be talking about pleasure, not just thinking about our vaginas as a source of, "Oh, you're going to have cramps and there's going to be blood."
Erica: Because you would have thought a clit just did not exist.
Kenrya: No, that wasn't part of that, no.
Erica: Do they even show clits in that?
Kenrya: No. They show you the urethra. They show you the vaginal opening, and they show you the anus. That's it, at least back when we learned that shit.
Erica: Yeah, and I'm like-
Kenrya: They just show you the openings, where things go in and come out.
Erica: ... "You missed the party."
Kenrya: Yeah, and the only focus on the fact that things come out of those spaces, right?
Kenrya: They talk about how you have your period. They talk about how babies come out, but they don't say shit about what it means to put things in them in a sex-positive way at all.
Kenrya: I feel like we have to normalize it from really young.
Erica: You'd be amazed the amount of women, grown-ass adult... Because my new thing is I buy young girls vibrators.
Erica: I have a friend whose daughter, shout out to you, I know you're listening.
Kenrya: I know who you're talking about. Hey, girl.
Erica: Who is about to leave for college. I'm like, "She's getting a vibrator from me," because I think it's important for young women to know themselves and know what's going on and feel things out. She was like, "Well, what about me?"
Kenrya: Her mama?
Erica: Yeah. I'm like, "You're a grown-ass woman with two kids. Not to shame you or woo-woo you,"-
Kenrya: I mean, I bought you a vibrator.
Erica: But it wasn't my first.
Kenrya: No. It was just because I thought you would like it. And did you break yours? Is that what happened?
Erica: I was literally going through divorce... What does our therapist call it? I was on a sex sabbatical, like no dating, no flirting, no-
Kenrya: I too was on that sabbatical.
Erica: ... fucking, nothing. I couldn't even flirt with anybody. It was bad. So all I had was my trusty, dusty vibrator. When I tell you that vibrator was dusty, because I went to go grab it, and that bitch was like, "Uh-uh, not today." So Kenrya was kind enough to gift me with a great vibrator.
Kenrya: I was.
Erica: But all that to say please get to know yourself. Get you a good vibrator. You can do a rabbit if you're just trying to do something small, get you a little bullet vibrator, put it to your clit, and I promise you you will see stars in the good way.
Kenrya: But even I think backing up on that as a mom of a girl, and as a mom of a boy too, I think it's really important that we create positive connections with our kids and their genitals. When my kid was born, and folks can take this how they want, but when I would change her diaper, I always had a smile on my face, even if she has shat up her back. Every-
Erica: FYI, godmama did not, but continue.
Kenrya: Even if I had to take off all her clothes because there was poop in her hair, and on my bed, these are all things that happen in real life, I always, even if it smelled awful, which is what happened when she finally started eating real food, I always had a smile on my face. I never wanted her, even from the very young age of one day old, to ever have a negative association with her personal parts. So it, to me, it started there. Then I think people are always surprised at how early kids start to touch themselves, but it starts very early.
Erica: Oh my gosh, and you're never prepared as a parent, but you got to... I remember the first time I found out about mine, and I freaked the fuck out internally.
Kenrya: Did you? Okay.
Erica: Internally. Inside, I was like running and said, "Ooh!"
Kenrya: Why do you think you freaked out?
Erica: Just because this is my baby, and it's like I want him to still be... You associate touching yourself and getting pleasure from your parts with adulthood. So it was one of those-
Kenrya: See, that's part of the shift that has to happen where we don't think of that as just being-
Erica: No, I completely agree, but instinctively as a mom, I was just like, "Oh my god. He's playing with himself. Next thing you know, I'm going to catch a little bitch in his room."
Kenrya: Oh god. Yeah, that's just what it was.
Erica: That's literally what it was. But externally, I was just like, "Hey, kid, take that to your room."
Erica: Because I don't want him to have these weird creepo, these weird associations with I can't pull out my... I don't need him pulling out his dick anywhere, but just you meet people, and they have some of the strangest things, hangups about their body. I don't want him-
Kenrya: Yeah, or a total disconnect from their body.
Erica: Yeah. You don't necessarily need to be the dude like butt naked, full frontal having a conversation about grilling this weekend with a guy in a locker room.
Kenrya: Right, right, his neighbors, right.
Erica: But at the same time, I don't want you being the kid that has to run and hide in the corner when it's time to change shirts in gym.
Kenrya: Change for gym.
Erica: Yeah. Internally, I was having a full meltdown just because I was like, "Ah!" But externally I was like, "Hey, bud, quick flicking it," because it was one of them... You know how they just-
Kenrya: Just touching it. That's-
Erica: Yeah, exactly.
Kenrya: Yeah. Then there's no outcome they're expecting. They're literally just touching it because its theirs and they realize it was there. "Oh, that feels like something."
Erica: Let's be honest, if I had a dick, I would totally... Not even a dick. Balls. I'd probably be late to work playing with them motherfuckers.
Kenrya: Oh my gosh.
Erica: They're just like... I don't know. But then I saw someone on Twitter. This goes completely uncredited. I cannot remember who said it, but someone was like, "If I want to play with balls, I'll just play with my elbows."
Kenrya: Wait. We're both touching our...
Kenrya: Oh shit.
Erica: So yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. If I stretch it all the way out, it's-
Erica: Yeah, it gets a little doughy, yeah.
Kenrya: That's hilarious. So when I first realized that that was happening, I don't remember an internal... I was just like, "Oh okay, she's touching herself." So we had a conversation. I was like, "Oh, okay." I was like, "Well, that's yours." I was like, "You can touch it as much as you want." I was like, "But," because I think she was in the living room. I was like, "But, so you know how we talked about there are some parts of our body that are just for you and that are private and that nobody else should ever touch unless you give them permission?" I was like, "That really is just me and your doctor." I was like, "That's one of those parts. If you want to touch it, you got this amazing room." I was like, "You can go to your room. You can spend as much time in there as you want to with that." I was like, "It's fun. It's yours. Enjoy." So she went to her room. She was in there for a couple minutes. Then I was like, "Go wash your hands."
Erica: Right. Put some sanitizer on that.
Kenrya: Then she went on back about her business. I have definitely had to remind her over the years to go to her room. She's good about it now, but it works, and if she ever has any discomfort, anything around her vagina, because I was really positive in the way that I reacted to it, she ain't got no problem being like, "Mama, it hurt," or, "Mama," whatever. Then I'm like, "Okay, well maybe you need to give it a little... Have you been touching it?"
Erica: Give it a rest.
Kenrya: Give it a rest. I'm like, "Give it the night, and then in the morning, see how things are feeling." She's like, "Okay." Then she'd go to sleep.
Kenrya: I think it's because I've always been super intentional about making her feel comfortable with her body, all of its parts. So we need to normalize that, I think.
Erica: Yes, we do.
Erica: Something else that we need to normalize, well, I don't know how... Hopefully it's normalized, but this is some fancy, space age pimping going on in this story, particularly in this excerpt, but I like how they stopped to check status.
Kenrya: Yes, well-
Erica: No granted, we're not walking around with it on our iPhones, our iWatches.
Kenrya: Oh, I actually do have it on my phone.
Erica: Well, in your watch, you don't have to scan your watch.
Kenrya: Girl, I ain't got no fancy-
Erica: Exactly. You couldn't do that anyway, but all that to say, it's not like you can just run a stat, like run that information, but I thought it was really cool how this author wrote in something about that, because it's missing from a lot of-
Kenrya: Most of.
Erica: ... most of the stories.
Kenrya: Folks don't pull out condoms, folks don't talk about their status.
Erica: Even ask or something like that. So I think it was really great that she added that that was a part of this story.
Kenrya: Yeah. I just don't like that he was like, "I trust you."
Erica: But it happens.
Kenrya: It absolutely is realistic.
Erica: Yeah, let's not act like it don't happen, yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's realistic as hell. It's just like based on what, my G? You can't-
Erica: So how do you ask? How do you do it?
Kenrya: Very directly, at this point. There was this time where I was getting flewed out to go see somebody who I'd been friends with for years. We had decided that we were going to have sex. I wanted the full compliment of services. So I had my tests. I hadn't had sex since the last time I got testing, and I do actually keep it on my phone, saved as a favorite. I texted it to him and was like, "I want to be able to do all the things. Here are my test results. I need you to get tested and send them to me, and then we can have fun." He said, "Bet, let me call and make an appointment."
Kenrya: Then once he was done, he sent it to me. My current relationship is basically how it usually goes. If I'm with somebody, I'd just be like, "Look," once I get to the point where I do want to be able to do all the things and I trust them and blah blah blah, I literally just say, "Look, I want us to be able to do all the things, but I can't do that unless I know that you're safe. That means that you have to get tested." So they do it. I need to see date stamps. I need all the things, and I am just as forthcoming with my own information. No one's ever asked me to take another test. They've always trusted that I was giving them-
Erica: Once we've done it, we're-
Kenrya: Well no, that I was giving them the most recent information. Oh yeah, no. No, I've never had them... But see, I get tested annually for everything anyway. I remember when I was living in New York, I was in my 20s, and I was going to the doctor. It was just my regular doctor's office. I would have them do blood tests for everything, including HIV. I remember one of the doctors was like, "Well, there are other ways to prevent HIV. You don't need to get tested every year." I was like, "Are you fucking stupid?"
Erica: Really you're supposed to get tested every six months.
Erica: If you're out there doing it like that.
Kenrya: Out there. I was in a committed relationship-
Erica: Not out there, but when you're doing it.
Kenrya: ... but to me, you can have all the... I know firsthand that you can have all the faith and trust in somebody who has committed to you and then find out that that aint' what's shaking. Then you don't know what you got, because you're not getting yourself tested all the time. That has been, since I started having sex, I have gotten tested at least annually for everything, because I just... Yeah. We can be in a committed whatever, and I can trust you, but who knows what the fuck you're doing with your dick when I'm not around? I'm not trying to fuck around and have something pop up that I can't get rid of or have long-term consequences like PID and infertility or any of these things because I decided that I want to completely take your word on the fact that nothing was going on.
Erica: All right.
Kenrya: What about you? How do you ask?
Erica: Yeah, I don't think I ask. I just like you, I just do. No, I don't. I guess I could access my test results through my phone, but I certainly don't keep it saved as a favorite.
Kenrya: It's just a screenshot of LabCorp.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I guess I could. But yeah. I say, "Hey, I got tested recently," or I do testing every six months. I do annually with my doctor, and then usually-
Kenrya: Go to Planned Parenthood or something?
Erica: Yeah, usually Planned Parenthood. Well, not even Planned Parenthood. I go back to my doctor, because they're really good about just quick checks, or I hit up the Patient First.
Kenrya: Oh, I've never done that there. That's a good idea.
Erica: They do everything at Patient First urgent care.
Kenrya: That's so much faster than Planned Parenthood. Ooh, you're smart, bitch.
Erica: Yeah. So I say, "Hey, these are my recent test results. Let me see yours." Then we go from there. But it used to be difficult. It used to be not a sexy conversation, but now it's an even more... It's still not a sexy conversation, but when you're prepared, I'm like, "Oh, you're really about to get this pussy, because you know what you're doing. You take care of yourself."
Kenrya: Yeah, I that's a turn on. We grown. I don't feel like I should have to beat around a bush about whether or not you're healthy and I'm healthy and we can do this. I think part of it too is that I do usually frame it in the context of I want to be able to do all the things. That is exactly why it's important to me. Beyond the fact that of course we know that condoms don't protect from everything and whatnot, and even then, in some cases, there will still be times when we will use condoms, even though we have done the testing thing. It doesn't necessarily preclude from that, but it definitely makes me feel more at ease when it comes to oral sex and things like that.
Erica: Swapping juices.
Kenrya: Fluids. Exactly. I have to have that before I do it, because I'm not interested in taking nothing home.
Erica: Sitting in the doctor's office. Yeah.
Erica: Okay. So now down to the nitty-gritty of this, the actual sex. Honey, so I like a big guy. We know that, right?
Kenrya: Oh yeah.
Erica: It's very clear. I will entertain the smaller brethren.
Kenrya: Will you?
Erica: I have. I have.
Kenrya: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erica: I have.
Kenrya: I see a few in my head. I see a few in my head.
Erica: Yeah, but I like a big guy, primarily because I like to be manhandled. I like to be picked up and tossed around. When he picked her up, I was like, "Well, Murder, She Wrote, because you about to murder this pussy."
Kenrya: Yes. That was cool, and you know me, when she moved her hands after he told her not to and he slapped her thigh-
Erica: I was going to say, I have a note right here, knowing to give directions, so sexy.
Erica: Because it's one of those things, you have to feel it out. Not every woman is into pain or that element. So even bigger than the slapping her on the thigh, it was just like they were feeling it out, and he knew... Not even that he knew, but he was able to kind of test the waters and see how she responded.
Kenrya: Right, in a way that wasn't over the top or wouldn't freak her out.
Erica: And she's still young in this, so it's not like he slapped her on the thigh and threw a collar around her neck, but it was just enough restriction and rules to kind of surprise herself, but keep it going. Like woo.
Kenrya: Yeah, when she was surprised that it actually... Yeah, that it worked for her, that she liked it.
Erica: That's how I felt. I know you're a nipple gal, but that's how I felt the first time I had my nipples pinched hard. I was like-
Kenrya: "Oh, what?"
Erica: ... "Wait, whoa." It was like, "Wow, that happens? Ooh, that really does that?"
Kenrya: Yeah, for some people. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. So I thought that was really cool, just how he was so good at kind of nudging her towards the direction.
Kenrya: Yeah. No, it was good, and she followed, which is not always easy to do, especially if that's not what you're used to doing.
Erica: If that's not your thing.
Kenrya: Yeah, and it pushed her over.
Erica: Yes, it did. So once she got over, they made it to the mountain top, they sitting, looking on the side of the rock at all the land that they've conquered, enjoying themselves.
Kenrya: Surveying their spoils.
Erica: Surveying what happened. Her ass start talking.
Kenrya: This bitch.
Erica: And fucked it up.
Kenrya: She said, "Thank you." But beyond that, she said, "Yeah, I'm sure there's folks all over the Realm that have experienced that."
Erica: Yeah, and I know that was her doing it... I think that was her talking out loud, talking herself down of, "This isn't what I think it is or what I want it to be."
Kenrya: Yes, "Calm down, bitch. It's fine. He doing this to everybody. You're not special. Don't treat him like he's special."
Erica: So have you had a situation where you've talked yourself out of seconds?
Kenrya: No. I'm greedy.
Erica: So you've never been and had a good time and then said something that completely killed the mood?
Kenrya: No. Not that I can think of.
Erica: Yeah. This bitch told me about how a fucking transformer blew up out her window last night and they kept fucking, so I don't think there's much that kills the mood.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean I did get up, but then I got back down.
Erica: So has anyone said anything to you post sex that have talked about a-
Kenrya: Oh sorry, I'm seeing that whole scene last night. Ooh, that made me not want to do it again?
Erica: That was just like, "You know what? You was about to get some more head. Now your ass got to go home."
Kenrya: There was the guy who I talked about in another episode who complained about how wet it was to give me head.
Erica: He said that post sex, like you all laying there naked?
Kenrya: It was when we were switching positions from him giving me head.
Kenrya: He was like, "It's just so messy. We got to wipe up and all of this." I'm like-
Erica: You don't wipe up. You just keep going.
Kenrya: Hello? I was like, "So what, you don't want to do it?" He was like, "Nah, it's too messy." So I was like, "Bet, I'm not sucking your dick no more." I literally just said that. It was as we were transitioning.
Erica: Oh my god.
Kenrya: So he talked himself out of ever having head again from me, because I never did it again.
Erica: Yeah. Note to men. A lot of times you can get so much farther if you just shut up.
Kenrya: Shut the fuck up.
Erica: Just shut up. If you don't know what to say or if you're not sure if it's going to be corny-
Kenrya: Don't say nothing.
Erica: ... just don't say nothing, because she going to make up some shit that you're saying in your mind that's probably sexier than anything you could say.
Kenrya: She's giving you all kinds of grace.
Erica: Yeah, she probably said the most specific shit that you would have never thought of in a million years, but it hits her right in that button, and she's like a waterfall. So if you're unsure, just don't say shit.
Kenrya: Just don't say nothing.
Erica: Because it's easier to talk yourself out of some pussy than it is to talk yourself into some pussy.
Kenrya: Yeah. Has anyone ever done that to you or have you ever?
Erica: Oh, I'm queen of some weird shit to say after sex.
Kenrya: Ooh, like what?
Erica: Like you know me and, "Meep, moop, I am a robot dinosaur." Call back to episode one or whatever. Let me think. Yeah, I'm the nigga that could talk myself out of some dick. Well no, I couldn't. Men are-
Kenrya: Men are simple.
Erica: Men are simple.
Kenrya: "We love you though."
Erica: "We love you though." Bringing up old shit. I'm quick to be like, "Whew, you really murdered that pussy. Now who was that bitch you was in the store with?" "You mean my cousin?" No, I'd be like, "Who that dusty-ass ho you was in the store with?" He'd be like, "You mean my mama? You calling my mama a dusty ho?" "Ooh, my bad. Let me just go home." I've definitely probably done something equivalent to that. I can't think of specifics, but I know for a fact that I have killed a mood or two in my day.
Erica: With regard to someone saying something that would kill a mood or something being done? I can't... Oh shit, I haven't asked questions that-
Kenrya: You ain't got an answer to.
Erica: I haven't thought about answers for myself.
Kenrya: Well, hmm. Okay. I got one, kind of, while you think. I was having sex with this dude-
Erica: I can't think of this... Sorry. Keep going.
Kenrya: Bitch, multitask. It seemed to me, which is what I said out loud after, that he was trying to hurt me, but not in a good way. Like in a his shit was fucked up, and it's not like we had a conversation about boundaries or anything like that. But the position that he kept trying to put me in was like... It was the only position he wanted to have sex in. It was like if I scream, that was like getting him really... I said after, I was like, "You know, it really felt like you were trying to hurt me." He just kind of froze, which is how I knew I was fucking right. Then that dude ghosted me.
Kenrya: Yeah, like I think-
Erica: He's like, "I can't abuse her."
Kenrya: Yeah. Like I caught... You can be into BDSM and you can be a masochist and all of this stuff and have... You should be having conversations with the people that you're with and be honest about what you want and what gets you off, and if you have a consenting partner, that shit can work. But to me, it felt super dishonest.
Erica: He likes the unconsented part.
Erica: He likes the unconsented part. That's what gets him off.
Kenrya: That's what gets him off. Exactly. So I feel like it wasn't that I said anything wrong. I think that that was exactly what I should have said and was absolutely what I wanted to say, but I do believe that that's the reason that he disappeared, because I had called him on his shit.
Erica: Yeah, because let's be clear. I think if it's possible to say something and completely dead it, a lot of times, I'm not going to say all the time, but a lot of times you're like... If you're able to say something-
Kenrya: You got one foot in and one foot out anyway.
Erica: Yeah, if you're able to say something, if you're able to say one thing that can kill everything, it's like, "Y'all wasn't really right."
Kenrya: That wasn't shit anyway.
Erica: Because even if I say something out-of-pocket, if you're-
Kenrya: The right person is laughing at your dumb ass.
Erica: Yeah, like, "This dumb robot dinosaur-ass chick."
Erica: Yeah, but I can't think of any... Again, I've had a long and storied past. I'll let you all know if there was something that was said. I feel like there is, but I can't come to mind of anything where something was said to me that was like-
Erica: ... "Hey, bitch." I mean, yeah, because I get all those questions out of the way up front early on. I remember I was on a date with a guy, and I don't know why, but I got the feeling that he had someone.
Kenrya: Was just your spidey sense, your intuition was telling you, yeah.
Erica: My spidey senses. I was like, "Are you dating someone or do you have a girlfriend?" He was like, "No." I was like, "Well, is there someone that would be upset that,"-
Kenrya: "That you were here with me right now?"
Erica: ... "that you told me,"-
Kenrya: That's the way I ask that question, yeah.
Erica: ... "that you told me that you don't have someone?"
Erica: I said, "All right." Yeah, so thankfully I got that out of the way, because he definitely was going to get some pussy, but I got that out the way and got...
Kenrya: I ask that question, and I always say, "Is there somebody who would be upset that you're with me right now?" Because saying girlfriend or whatever the fuck, they lie. They're going to lie anyway, but I feel like that one, ooh, sometimes at least gets to the heart of the matter or they react in such a way, like in your situation, that you can tell.
Kenrya: Where they reveal all.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: So in the bigger book, what's the lead? The protagonist?
Kenrya: Protagonist? Yes.
Erica: The lead actress. The protagonist, Kira, is caught in a love triangle of sorts. She's torn between two.
Erica: Uh-uh, (singing)
Kenrya: What are you singing? What are you singing?
Erica: "I'm In Love With Another Man", Jasmine Sullivan.
Kenrya: I don't know that song.
Erica: It is... Oh, bitch, I be in my car singing hard.
Erica: (singing) I'm sorry, you all. I'm so sorry, I got to listen to that. Ooh, I love me some Jasmine Sullivan. Anyway, so she's on some "I'm in Love With Another Man" shit. That's some juicy shit that I'd like when I tell you I'm running from that kind of drama, but have you ever been in a caught between two?
Kenrya: No. I have been in a, "I am firmly over here, but I am what-iffing the fuck out of this other situation," situation.
Kenrya: Bitch, you know this. Hunker down. I have definitely, yes, where I was firmly in a committed relationship, but there was a...
Erica: Oh yeah, now I got it. I got it. Uh-huh.
Kenrya: A past situation where it ended not on bad terms.
Erica: It just ended.
Kenrya: It ended because of logistics and whatever. So there was always kind of in the back of my head a "what if that had actually worked out?" Kind of a situation. But it definitely wasn't an, "I'm torn between." It was just like, "Okay, if I'm ever free, then I'll try it. If I'm not, then I'm not, because I'm right over here." So no, I've never felt torn between two people, because I'm very much like... I guess it still kind of holds true, although now it's much more intentional, but my cycle was always when I was younger, dating, I would date a whole bunch of people and then very quickly narrow it down to somebody and then keep it moving. It was always way too quickly, as my history will show.
Kenrya: Then once I came off of my man sabbatical, I was very intentionally dating at least three people at a time, very openly and honestly, so that I would give each one the correct amount of consideration as I was trying to figure out if I wanted to spend extended time with any of those people. But it always would narrow down or, honestly, more often than not, I would just talking to all of them, because none of them were really a good match for me. But no, I don't think I ever have, have you?
Erica: No. I'm the type of person when I decide to rock with you, then-
Kenrya: You with them.
Erica: ... just everything else cuts off.
Erica: Yeah. I used to think that shit was romantic and, "Ooh, you're caught between two people." Now I'm like, "That shit just sounds like a fucking headache."
Kenrya: That sounds like... Ugh, yeah. It really does.
Erica: I don't understand it. I don't want to have to... It's hard enough for me to care about one person, let alone multiple people, which is what we'll get into when we discuss polyamory, because honey, I'm trying to be considerate. It takes a lot-
Kenrya: It does. That's why I think-
Erica: ... for me to be considerate of one other person's emotions.
Kenrya: Yeah. We're obviously not talking about that now, but that's why I think the people how think, "Oh, it's for people who don't want to commit," I'm like, "No, it's quite the opposite of that, it seems to me."
Erica: No, it takes a next level commitment to care about two people.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), or more.
Erica: yeah. I feel like all our polyamorous listeners, you all have super evolved.
Kenrya: Right. Hats off, shit.
Erica: Yeah, because this wraps up this week's episode of the Turn On.
Erica: Once again, we did it.
Kenrya: We did.
Erica: We made it past the finish line.
Kenrya: It was fun.
Erica: We are on the top of the rock.
Kenrya: We went over the cliff.
Erica: Surveying all the damage that we've done.
Erica: All the goodness.
Erica: We're looking upon a sea of dildos and happy faces.
Kenrya: I like it.
Erica: So thank you for joining us again. These are your hosts, your lovely hosts Erica-
Kenrya: Erica and Kenrya.
Erica: We are two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: Making it clap.
Erica: This week's episode was produced by us, Erica, Easy E, and Killer Ken, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. Please subscribe to this show on your favorite podcast app. Follow us on Twitter @theturnonpod and Instagram @theturnonpodcast and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at theturnonpodcast.com. Holla.
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In Episode 2 of The Turn On, we read an excerpt from “Push the Button” by Feminsta Jones. Then we talk about our own experiences with dominant and submissive roles in relationships.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Hey, y'all, welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. Today, we're reading Push the Button, by Feminista Jones, which was published in 2014. Sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get all your stuff, your accoutrements, and enjoy.
Kenrya: Push the Button, by Feminista Jones.
"I want to see you." Though the words can be taken as a request or a simple expression of his wants, she knew that they were heavier than that. Five typed words, one command, sent via text message, and she had but a few minutes to comply completely. It did not matter that it was 4:07 AM, or that she had been deeply asleep for at least five hours. She knew that keeping her phone under her pillow was necessary, as he could summon her at any moment, and she had to be available, ready, and willing to do whatever was asked of her.
She groggily rolled off of the side of her bed, stumbling over her shoes, then regaining her composure and made her way to the bathroom. She splashed water on her face, removing remnants of her nightly facial mask, brushed her teeth, removed her scarf, and fluffed her hair a bit. Staring briefly at her reflection, she thought, "This will have to do."
She turned on her computer and while it booted up, she went to the kitchen to grab a bottle of water. She glanced at the clock, 4:14 AM, not bad. She hurried to the couch and signed onto Skype. Within 30 seconds, her screen flashed with an incoming call. "Good morning, beautiful girl." She smiled at this greeting and put her headphones in. For some reason, listening to his voice through her earbuds made her feel closer to him.
She sat up straight, stared at his chest, and noticed that he wore no shirt. She could see the chest hairs she had fallen asleep against many times before. She felt familiar warmth slowly begin to spread across her skin. "You may speak." She continued to look at his chest, having not yet received permission to make eye contact. "Good morning, Sir. It is an honor to be at your service. May I ask how you are?" "You may." "How are you, Sir? How was your day? Is there anything I can do for you at this time?" "I'm well. My day was long, rather exhausting. Look up."
She raised her eyes without hesitation, meeting his sleepy but focused gaze. "I'm being pulled in so many ways at work. I know I can handle it, but some days, some days it's just too much. I must have clocked 15 hours today." "Oh, Sir, I'm so sorry to hear that. I know you've been dealing with a lot at work lately, and I hate that it's overwhelming you this way. How can I help you in this moment?" "It would help if you followed my instructions and appeared on screen prepared," he began, a tinge of frustration in his voice.
"I've mentioned this before, so, you're not unaware. Have you forgotten? Lost your rule book? What?" She felt the chills of disappointment prickle down her spine. In her sleepy disorientation, she'd forgotten to fully remove her clothing and attach her collar. The last time, she'd gone to sleep with the collar on because he demanded she do so. This time, it was beside her bed, in the drawer of her nightstand. "Get it." She scurried to her bedroom and withdrew collar, she hastily fastened it to her neck and ran back to her computer.
"I don't remember telling you to put it on. Take it off. Now. You think you deserve to wear my collar right now? Nevermind, don't answer that. I don't want to hear a word." The bite of the last word forced her eyes to cast downward, shamed. Embarrassed, she removed the collar and held it in her hands, her thumbs nervously rubbed over the ridges in the leather. She received the purple collar on her birthday, nine months prior. After a year of training in service, she received her most coveted prize, his collar.
She'd known better than to ask for it, but several times during any given week, she would catch herself fingering her neck longingly. When out with her friends in the life, she would often feel tinges of jealously while looking at their beautiful collars. She would only hope that her submission pleased him sufficiently and that he would, one day, bestow upon her his symbol of ownership.
When he took her out for her birthday, during a walk in the park after dinner, he surprised her with the collar. He sat her down on the bench, stood behind her, and clasped it around her neck, whispering only "You're mine." It was one of the best nights of her life, and she cherished his gift and his appreciation of her. She never wanted to disappoint him, but there were times, like this, when she faltered and made simple mistakes.
"I'm sorry I," she began. "Don't be sorry. Do what I ask of you and prepare yourself accordingly when I summon you. It's rather simple, actually. Do as you're told. Look up." She looked up and met his eyes, this time seeing a smile. She didn't immediately understand where the smile came from, but she felt comforted, and that was enough for her for the moment.
"Take off your clothes." This was not a new request, and she knew very well what he wanted when he commanded it. He enjoyed her slow movements, never breaking eye contact, focused, deliberate, dancing on the bridge between coy sensuality and gratuitous sexuality. She was wearing an ivory satin push-up bra and white boy shorts, so she didn't have much to remove. She reached behind her back and gingerly unhooked the latches of her bra. She then delicately hooked the index finger of her right hand under the left strap and guided it down her shoulder. She did the same for the other side, never breaking eye contact.
She watched him shift in his seat a few times, which she recognized as the onset of his arousal. She was pleasing him. "Show me." She fully removed the bra and cupped her breast. They weren't overly large, but not small either. They were full C cup and he deemed them perfect for his taste. When he made this simple command, she knew that he meant that she was to present them to him, playfully and sensually. So, she began massaging her breasts and rolling the nipples in between her thumbs and index fingers. "Nice."
She watched him lean back in his chair and slowly place his hand atop his groin area. She could see slight twitches in his boxer briefs, but dare not let her enjoyment of his new predicament show on her face because he could read her so well. She lifted her left breast toward her mouth, preparing to suck the nipple when he stopped her. "Where's your toy? Go get it. Now." She rushed to her bedroom again, opened the same drawer, and pulled out her lilac G spot vibrator.
She hurried back to her computer and looked at the screen, she saw that he removed his boxer briefs and was holding himself, slowly stroking, back and forth, up and down. She knew what he needed. She sat back on her couch and laid back, spreading her legs. "Push the button." She turned on the vibrator and it began to buzz in her hands. She looked up at him, meeting his eyes again. "Sir, may I play with myself?" "Yes. Do what I need you to do, what you need to do."
Angling herself for a better view, she began to move the vibrator along the outer lines of her vagina. It slid in easily as she was naturally well-lubricated. With her left hand, she spread the lips wider, and with her right hand, she massaged herself with the lilac color device. With every moment, she slipped deeper into the moment and allowed herself more enjoyment of it. At least he'd given her permission to do so this time. He told her to do what she needed to do and she proceeded to do just that.
She broke eye contact with him when her own eyes began to roll back into her head. Her hips slowly began to gyrate to the rhythm her hand and toy had started. After a few minutes, and at least three low groans from him, she inserted the toy inside. "Yes, baby girl, that's it. Show me. Good girl. Make my pussy come for me. Now." Hearing the urgency in his voice, she knew he was not far off from his own release, and she knew he needed her to give him the visual stimulation he needed to get over and release completely.
Making him cum was one of her greatest pleasures. To be able to serve him in such a way catered to his pleasure, she felt so lucky and honored to be the one he chose and to be the source of his pleasure. She widened her legs and pushed the toy deeper until it hit her spot. She knew it would be any second now, she moaned once, and then again, and finally a low guttural raw sound came from her throat as she felt the wave of an intense orgasm take over her body.
She felt her body jerk as her back arched, and just then, her body released its juices and she squirted them all over her keyboard, some of it hitting the screen. She knew better than to be embarrassed by this though because he loved every drop that came from her. She opened her eyes just in time to see him making his final feverish strokes as he erupted into a handful of tissues he had. She hated to see his cum go to such waste, but what could she do?
"Did I please you, sir?" "Oh, yes. Yes, baby girl, you were fantastic. You always are." She beamed with pride, despite her temporary weariness. "Good girl."
"Thank you, sir. I'm glad to be of service to you." She lowered her head again, gathered her belongings; she'd clean it up tomorrow, she was too tired now.
"Nicole." She looked up, having heard her birth name. She saw his hand extended, open palm, toward the camera.
"Yes, David?" "I love you. So much."
"And I adore you, my love."
"You are so fucking beautiful. I wish you could have come on this trip with me."
"I know, honey."
"I'll be home Friday."
"I can't wait."
"You may put your collar on, sleep well with it until then."
"Okay, I will."
She blew him a kiss and signed out of Skype, she patted back to her bed and stretched her limbs a bit to work out the kinks from their awkward positioning during their session. She laid down, heard the notification ring on her phone, and she glanced at it and saw a text from him, "You're mine." She typed the only response he needed and expected, "Always." ...
So, you just heard us reading Feminista Jones' Push the Button.
Erica: So, the part of the story that we read was the opening scene in the story. This is a much longer chapter book, and I highly encourage everyone to actually read the entire book.
Kenrya: Yeah, because it's not at all what you think it's going to be. The story is really interesting.
Erica: It definitely turns into something else, and word on the street is there will be a Part 2 soon. So, I'm very excited to see what the Part 2 will look like, considering the conversation we had with the author-
Kenrya: Which you'll hear next week.
Erica: And knowing her developments. So, I actually really liked this because it drew me in immediately, with the "I want to see you" part.
Kenrya: I was like, "Who wants to see who? Why?"
Erica: Yeah, like, "What's about to happen?" And there's something about a woman willingly submitting to someone, where it's kind of like ... it's kind of like how if you find out people are paying a whole lot for a particular something, you're like, "Ooh, that must be good, if they're paying all that kind of money." So, like, he must actually have some good dick if she willing to go through this shit.
Kenrya: There must be something.
Erica: If she willing to do all this submissive shit, wake up in the middle of the night and stuff. I mean maybe not necessarily for just dick because, as we say, dick is abundant and low in value.
Kenrya: And low in value.
Erica: Yeah, it was the ... The story definitely drew me in from the beginning, and I liked it. It's interesting seeing that kind of power play-
Kenrya: Yeah, that dynamic.
Erica: Act out. We'll kind of get into it, but I am ... well, maybe we won't get into it, I'll just open it up now. In relationships, I am ... Well, in life, I'm a very dominant person, and so I want to be a submissive person in relationships. However-
Kenrya: I'm sorry.
Erica: You're laughing?
Kenrya: Bitch. Okay.
Erica: No, I want to be a submissive-
Kenrya: In relationships, or in sex?
Erica: Sex and relationships.
Erica: I want to. The problem is I don't quite know if the DNA makeup of me-
Kenrya: Allows for that shit.
Erica: Allows for that to happen. See, now we're about to get into some whole therapy-type shit, but I feel like-
Kenrya: It's never just sex, right?
Erica: Right. So, I feel like in relationships, I desire to be submissive, and so I find myself throwing my submission to men that aren't worthy of said submission.
Kenrya: Yeah, he can't-
Erica: And then that's how you get off of that.
Kenrya: You can't follow where a nigga can't actually lead.
Erica: Exactly. Exactly. And so now, it's like how do you play that line? So, to me, this story reads like a fantasy because it's like, wow-
Kenrya: Yeah, you can stress this nigga this much?
Erica: She's got a dominant that's really doing the shit a dominant is supposed to do. So, I actually really like it because, like I said, I crave to be a submissive in a relationship. However-
Kenrya: What is it about that that attracts you? Like, why do you want to be submissive in a relationship?
Erica: Because I want to turn my brain off, I don't want to have to think about shit. But, again, I find myself being a dominant person because I know I can trust myself-
Kenrya: Yeah, you're competent.
Erica: I know I can depend on myself.
Erica: I know that if shit go left, Erica can make it happen. And it'd be really great to hand that over to someone.
Erica: And I think this also has a lot to do with the whole gender roles and growing up and having in my mind ideal gender roles. But, yeah, that would be really great, and so, to me, this is like a fantasy because it's like, wow, this shit is working well. But it's like, how does this really play out in real life?
Kenrya: Right. I mean, it's interesting to me, I like the story, and, on some levels, I like the idea of being submissive-
Erica: No, you're just a sadist, you enjoy-
Kenrya: I enjoy pain.
Erica: Yeah, you enjoy ... So, I've been reading a lot about submission and all of that, so in this book I read, they essentially broke it down into three buckets. The first bucket being a bottom, and bottoming, for the purposes of the book, and I'm probably fucking it up-
Kenrya: Fucking it up, and y'all will let us know.
Erica: Please correct us. But bottoming is enjoying receiving pain in sexual situations only. So it's like I can bottom, but when this scene is over, "Nigga go make some pancakes."
Kenrya: "Get the fuck up off me." Right.
Erica: And then, there is the role of the submissive, who is maybe not necessarily a bottom, but takes direction from their dom in the relationship. And so it's like make sure my drink is fixed when I get home, or my coffee's prepared this particular way-
Kenrya: Did you see how big my eyes just got?
Erica: You should see Kenrya's face right now.
Kenrya: Wooh, nigga.
Erica: To me, that's a turn-on.
Kenrya: Make sure what? I'm not your mama.
Erica: But, see, yeah, to me, that's a turn-on. And then, there's a slave, which is like, "Nigga, you ain't got no choice in this, you're going to do what I tell you when I tell you, sex, whatever."
Erica: And, also, in the book, it was, and I'll reference it once I remember what it was, but in the book, it was also important to note that the power in being a submissive is that you are giving your power to this person-
Kenrya: Right, you're trusting them and you're giving it to them, right, yeah.
Erica: It's a gift. And the power in that is that you can take that shit back any time. So, I think you're a bottom, and not a submissive, at all.
Kenrya: Yeah, that makes more sense to me.
Erica: Like, "Fix your face."
Kenrya: Well, but it's interesting because I don't want it to sound like I don't do for my partners because that's obviously not the case. But, I have dealt with codependency for so long, where the way that that looked was that I would put myself out, I would do harm to myself in order to help other people, particularly men, who didn't fucking deserve it, like as we were talking about trying to follow behind niggas that don't know how to lead, and putting myself in, sometimes, fucking in like real-ass peril, in the case of abuse and things like that because I was trying to meet the needs of someone else and subjugating my own needs. And so I've come through that, right, with the help of lots of therapy, shout out to therapy.
Erica: Shout out.
Kenrya: And I ain't going back. So, now, it's this really interesting balance of, you know, when we're just out here living our lives in a relationship, of making sure that there is a balance, and I even like to think of it as power, but a balance of doing for each other so that it doesn't feel like one person is always doing for the other because I'm partner right now with someone who's as sweet as I am and who has often found himself in that situation where he was the person who was doing everything for everyone, and so it's been kind of cool to see how we navigate that, as both of us being that type of person.
Kenrya: And it almost is like a competition to see who can do the sweetest thing for each other, but we do it, don't roll your eyes at me, bitch, but we do it in the context of we're not hurting ourselves to do it, and it feels ... it's healthy, it's the first time I've been in a healthy, you know what I mean, situation like that. But when it comes to sex, I'm like-
Erica: "It's okay to hurt a little bit."
Kenrya: Yes, do that, I literally will say, "Yeah, you need to suck that like you're trying to hurt me," and he does it, and that is what works for me. And so it's interesting because I'm still telling him what to do in that instance, but, also, it's because I enjoy the pain of it, so it's a ... I don't quite know what that-
Erica: Well, I think, one, as you guys continue to "partner"-
Kenrya: You hate that word.
Erica: I know. As you continue to partner, you will learn each other, and so it'll be a little more just ... shit will happen.
Kenrya: Well, stuff has happened, but he like to do some new stuff, he gotta get some direction.
Erica: But, two, I think it's just important about knowing yourself, your partner knowing you. And I mean and shit, if this is the person you're with, they should understand that you have ... Ideally, for me, I will be in a situation with a dominant that understands that I have a history of codependency, and will care and do just as much to look out for that as I will. And, also-
Kenrya: Right. And that's the one thing you can trust to lead you.
Erica: Yeah. And, also, I think that it's important to remember that your service should not be to the detriment of who you are, you know? And I think that's ... If there's anything that I learned in this whole codependency journey-
Erica: Is that codependency is putting yourself at harm to help-
Kenrya: Somebody else.
Erica: Somebody else. And I think that-
Kenrya: And so often Black women do that, it's what we're taught to do that as little girls.
Kenrya: We're socialized to put everybody else's needs before our own, and that's why I always hate that strong Black woman shit because I'm like, I was literally just having a conversation about this, like we are taught that we should not feel pain, or at least if we feel it, we shouldn't express it, we for damn sure shouldn't tell people that we're hurting, and at least to us, not ever feeling like we can really be vulnerable, whether it's when we're having sex, or it's when we're talking to our friends, or when we're trying to be in a relationship, an intimate relationship, with somebody.
Erica: And if you can't express that whole range of emotions, like if I can't express to my partner deep pain and deep sorrow, I think it's also difficult for you to express extreme joy and extreme happiness, you know? I feel like you should be able to express all of those emotions.
Kenrya: Well, and feel them all, right? Because oftentimes it's like you can't even feel that shit. Like, my kid is ... well, first of all, she's a Gemini, like you, so take that how y'all want to. But she's like-
Erica: That's the Gemini theme song.
Kenrya: Dramatic as hell. But, so, she'll be having a reaction that, to me, as an Aries, who is like, "Okay, girl," is overblown. But I tell her all the time, the first thing I always say is, "It's okay to feel that. You can sit here and you can have those feelings, feel all of that emotion, and then when you're ready, we can talk about it." Like, I never tell her that it's wrong to feel a way because for so long I think I was told that in ways both explicit and implicit.
Erica: Yeah. I was with this guy, and going through my shit, going through my emotions, and he just sat down, looked me dead in the eye, was like, "You are so fucking emotional." He was like, "I'm not used to it, but I'm going to deal with it, and I appreciate you for it,"-
Kenrya: Okay, I guess?
Erica: And I was just like, "This is sexy." See, I found it sexy because, again, it's just like-
Kenrya: I guess, relatively, like have you experienced men who are like, "Oh, fuck, I can't, this is too much"?
Erica: I mean, people, not even men because, again, I am an emotional being, I will be very excited about going at 9:00 AM, and then by 7:00, I'm like, "You know what, I'd rather stay at home."
Kenrya: Yeah, we know, the people know.
Erica: Anyway, bitch. Again, put your eyes back in your mouth. But nonetheless ... So, it's really nice to have someone ... because I know it's a little off-putting to people, when you're not used to such extremes in emotion.
Kenrya: Y'all feel things so deeply.
Erica: Exactly. And so for somebody to be like, "Yo, this shit is fucking wild, but I'm here for the ride, and I appreciate it," it was just like-
Kenrya: That's pretty cool.
Kenrya: And it wasn't, "Well, I'll fuck with you anyway," you know what I mean?
Erica: No, it was just like-
Kenrya: It was like, "Okay, this is what it is, and I'm down."
Erica: "This is what it is, I'm learning it, all right."
Kenrya: "Got to adjust, but it's cool."
Kenrya: Okay, I dig that.
Kenrya: So, you like to be submissive when you're having sex. I was going to say "in the bedroom," but who has sex in the bedroom?
Erica: In the room.
Kenrya: Yes, in the room. In the room where it happens. But, do you like to be submissive outside the room?
Erica: Yeah, I do, to an extent.
Kenrya: Can a nigga text you at 4:14 and say, "I want to see you"?
Erica: If those are the established rules, yes.
Erica: But, see, the thing is, I want to ... So, I was a kid, growing up, that I clearly remember being at a birthday party in somebody's basement, you know, had a little ghetto birthday party in somebody's basement.
Kenrya: Where they just put all the kids in the basement?
Erica: And I clearly remember looking around for emergency exits-
Erica: Like, if some shit go down, how we getting out of here? And that's how I am in the context of ... That's how I see myself being in the context of a submissive relationship. Haven't gotten there, but, you know, like I am perfectly fine submitting because, one, I require a lot, so it's not like there's this, "Oh, I submit, and"-
Kenrya: Right, it means that you're taking care of me on a certain level.
Erica: Exactly. And so I'm kind of like on ... For me, it's kind of like, "Okay, I'll submit, but the minute this shit start feeling weird, or like you ain't got it, bro, I'm out, deuces." Or like, "No, nigga, let me tell you what you going to do." So, yeah, that's where I am with that. Like, it would definitely have to be established rules that we both agree upon, that kind of thing, but, yeah, I would be fine with it.
Erica: Yeah, I think I would be okay with it. But, again, you got to hold shit down, I got to be taken care of, in order ... because I feel like, also, submitting is me taking care of you.
Kenrya: Right, like how she was talking about she had to do what he needed and what she needed.
Erica: Yeah. Like, I am a very detail-oriented person.
Erica: I have no problems with ... In previous positions, I've served in roles where I was a number two to someone; the number one took care of the big picture, the vision, whereas I was responsible for executing, and those were the most satisfying jobs that I had.
Kenrya: Yeah, because you get shit done, you got shit you can tick off your to-do list.
Erica: Exactly. So, you come back from a meeting and say, "This is the direction we're going in, I want 10 widgets. As long as I got 10 widgets, make that shit happen." That's how I see an ideal submissive relationship for me; you look at the big picture, you see where we going, setting that, and then look to me to take care of the details, but, again, I have to be comfortable in you setting the major goal. So, what about you? I mean it's clear that you're not really willing to ... I don't want to say willing to submit. Talk me through this.
Kenrya: I'm sitting here thinking about it. I mean-
Erica: Because, also, knowing your background, I feel like there is this reaction to "I'm so not going to be this, I'm going to completely run from it," and maybe I'm being a little too extreme, so talk me through your thoughts of how you feel on that.
Kenrya: I mean, I think some of my trepidation goes back to something you said earlier, which is that you are following somebody who is not really leading you anywhere. So, you know, I was married to a nigga who I should not have been married to, who wasn't leading us no fucking where, to be quite honest-
Erica: To the BET awards.
Erica: Everybody's a rapper.
Kenrya: Everybody's a rapper. And I ... So, I've always described myself as not necessarily an A-type, but I am, I forget what it's called ... like, I step up when I'm required to, I do not need to run the show, I don't need to be out front, I like to be behind the scenes like you, just kind of getting shit done. And in relationships, typically what happen is that I ...
Kenrya: You know what, a good analogy: if there's a class project, and we all have shit that we have to get done, if a natural leader emerges and handles the shit, I'm cool to just do my part and turn it in and keep it moving; but if nobody steps up, I will step into the role and I would do a great job at it, that's really how I treat relationships.
Kenrya: And so, in that marriage, and a lot of other relationships I've been in, I've been kind of forced to step in the role because the man who I was with was not able to do it, or not willing to do it, or whatever. In the case of my ex, what I found out over the course of years was that he really did just want somebody to fucking take care of him. His mother had taken care of him for years, his sister had taken care of him for years-
Erica: And that's the thing, it's difficult being comfortable with the person you're submitting to because submission ... I see submitting to a guy, not taking care of a nigga, but, no, you have to be a strong person because you got both of us riding on your back, it's not just you.
Kenrya: And that was the thing, we were all riding on my back. And then it was like-
Erica: And then mad because the nigga riding on your back.
Kenrya: Exactly. You know, you got an attitude because I'm the one that's making the money, you got an attitude because I'm the one that's working and can't fuck around and do nothing with you and listen to you rap all the goddamn time. So, eventually, it got to the point where it just wasn't really sexy for me. I got to a point where I didn't really have a lot of respect for him, to be quite honest.
Erica: That's the worst.
Kenrya: Right. And it wasn't even about gender roles, I don't think. I think it was more like, "Okay, cool, you're not the one that makes the money, bet. Could you do something around the fucking house? Could you take the kid to do something so that I can get this work done and then we can all go out and have dinner together? Yeah, I mean could you finish painting the fucking dining room that I ended up having to get up on the ladder and do that shit myself?"
Kenrya: And that was my thing, you know, you ain't got to be the one taking out the trash and, you know, doing all of that, but you need to do something, and then not be on my case about it. And so it got to the point where even if I had wanted to be submissive, there was no one to really submit to. I couldn't trust him to lead me any fucking where. And it spilled over into the bedroom, or wherever else we was going to have sex because I didn't really ... I wasn't wet for him no more.
Kenrya: And so I think my fear is slipping back into a situation with anyone where I am doing all of the things, and that if I attempt to be submissive, which is where I try to ... you know, I was making plates, I was doing all of that shit and, again, I don't have any problem with doing that, and I do that with my current partner, but it's because he is worthy of it.
Erica: That is so ... Yeah.
Kenrya: And so while I don't think of it necessarily as being submissive in this relationship, it really does feel like a equal partnering, which is pretty fucking dope. And in the bedroom, we just nasty, I can't even-
Erica: We just nasty.
Kenrya: I can't even label it, we do the stuff that he likes to do, we do the stuff that I like to do, there's no complaining, there is just a willingness to do all of the shit, and that just works for me, you know, without a label, it just works really well for me.
Erica: So, in the story, middle of the night, wake up, "Let me see you play with yourself," do you do ...?
Kenrya: I would do it.
Erica: Computer love.
Kenrya: I have.
Kenrya: I have had a partner who was once ... he was away for some kind of training, this is the last time I can remember doing it, he was away for some kind of training, he was gone for like seven or eight weeks or some shit, and we was both struggling. So, we literally did this, but it was an app on my phone, and so I just propped the phone up, I had gotten a little thing, like a little suction cup with a ... like, how you had the tripod, where you can attach it, set that up, pulled out the toys, he put his headphones in, and I gave him a show. I got to cum, he got to enjoy it, fantastic, good times.
Erica: I might have to look for that particular suction cup-
Kenrya: Oh, it's in the Amazon cart, or in the order. So, we share an Amazon cart.
Erica: Yeah, we are those Black people, we share Amazon, Netflix, we're a shared economy.
Kenrya: Hulu. We share everything.
Erica: We were Ubering before, well, not like that, but, you know-
Kenrya: Yeah, no, fuck Uber.
Erica: We were Ubering before Uber was Uber.
Erica: Living in the shared economy.
Kenrya: The share economy, yes.
Erica: Okay, yeah.
Erica: Yeah, I am ... I do it all.
Kenrya: Wait, bitch, I just sent, you're going to be so proud of me, I don't think I told you this-
Erica: You send nudes?
Kenrya: I sent my first nudes.
Erica: Oh my gosh, I have like literally like fucking vaults of that shit. Like, vaults of that shit.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I do lots of ... Yeah, my friend now is not here, and so we do lots of that shit: videos, not Skype, FaceTime, sending pictures, we have this great little app, it's a-
Kenrya: That photo vault thing?
Erica: Oh, yeah, we do that.
Kenrya: Yeah, I have that.
Erica: Well, I have that. Well, you don't have anything to put in it.
Kenrya: Well, no, no, see, that's sending-
Erica: You take pictures while you're in the act, too?
Kenrya: I'm about to say, I've made videos, and then-
Erica: Oh, yeah, we do lots of-
Kenrya: Save that on my phone, and then we can rewatch it later, we like to watch ourselves.
Erica: I think I'm own Jenna Jameson.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. But as far as sending things-
Erica: Yeah, you don't send it.
Kenrya: I've never felt comfortable ... because, you know, I had pictures stolen from me before-
Erica: I know.
Kenrya: So I was kind of skittish about.
Erica: See, that's the thing, I have so much shit out there-
Kenrya: That you're like, "Fuck it."
Erica: That I'm just like, "Fuck it." And then the other thing is everybody got them, and I got a good body, so, I mean I've got a little gut, but fuck it-
Kenrya: Girl, who don't?
Erica: Somebody like it. Niggas from the South like it.
Kenrya: I hate you.
Erica: Where was I going with ...
Kenrya: You said that you have no problems with it, and I'm saying that I am very proud of myself when I first did it.
Erica: We also have this ... it's a Bluetooth vibrator.
Kenrya: Oh, that he can control from his phone?
Erica: Yeah. But the thing is, it's a little-
Kenrya: Is it any ...
Erica: It's a little difficult because I have to have the app open, he has to have the app open, so-
Kenrya: Then how do you see each other? Or I guess then you got to set up your laptop or your iPad or something.
Erica: Yes. But within the app, you can chat-
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Erica: Because we do that, too, I mean like ... I guess that ... You know what, that was my first intro to erotica.
Kenrya: What? Sexting?
Erica: Self-written erotica.
Kenrya: Bitch, that ain't the same.
Erica: I am an author. Thankfully, for our listeners, you will not hear any of my self-written erotica because it's trash.
Kenrya: At least you know yourself.
Erica: Oh, no, yeah, girl, we ... wooh, yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yo, she's like reminiscing, she done bit her lip, like the white man's overbite, the shit they do when they think they getting it.
Erica: No, yeah, so, I definitely do some computer love. I have not been summoned at 4:00 in the morning to do computer love, I don't think. But, yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah, no, I mean my sleep is precious, but I would do that if ... I mean, that's hot, I would do it.
Erica: Especially if your boo is out of town.
Kenrya: Yeah. See, my boo lives literally three minutes away.
Erica: So jelly.
Kenrya: I know. It's the best.
Erica: That's better than in-house supply because-
Erica: That nigga can go home and you can be in your own clean house.
Kenrya: This is true.
Erica: When you want to snuggle-
Kenrya: Although, I like him there, but, yes, it is-
Erica: It's nice, but, if you like him there-
Kenrya: We still-
Erica: Because you have the ability to have your own space.
Kenrya: Yes, at this point.
Kenrya: Yeah, we're still early enough that it's nice, though it is very convenient, we can meet for lunch.
Erica: I know, every time, I'm like, "I'm going to lunch," I'm like mm-hmm (affirmative). I sent her text, "Are you still at "lunch"?"
Kenrya: And I don't respond because I still be at lunch.
Erica: At lunch. Lunch.
Kenrya: It's fun times, yeah.
Erica: Getting your lunch on. Okay, so, later in the story ... did you read the ...?
Kenrya: Yeah, I read the whole thing.
Erica: Okay, I'm sorry, yes, we read the whole story. So, later in the story, I found it interesting, we didn't really go over this in our story, but I found it interesting the openness that they had with their submission. Remember the scene where he's at his mom's house, and they were talking about ... well, first, that scene in the bathroom?
Erica: Although short, hot.
Kenrya: It was great. We considered doing that one, but it was too short.
Erica: Yeah. But, just the whole-
Kenrya: And it was in his mama house.
Erica: Fucking in the bathroom. The trepidation she had about going to see his mom because she was like, "Oh, she thinks I'm a weak woman," and I was just like, "Oh."
Kenrya: That was interesting, to think about what that dynamic looks like on the outside.
Kenrya: Because I never really ... you know, I'm very much like, "Fuck what y'all doing, this is what I'm doing," but that that was a factor in their relationship, for her to be thinking about that, I did think that was interesting.
Erica: Yeah, because, to me ... Yeah, I'm definitely, to an extent, a "Fuck what y'all are doing" kind of gal. But, you still want the nigga mama to like you, you know?
Erica: And so, I found that very interesting, and would like to maybe hear from some people, if you're in a Dom/sub relationship, how do you navigate vanilla scenes?
Kenrya: That's interesting. Yeah, do you tone that shit down when you're around ... because he really didn't, he was just like, "Stop asking her about that. We not doing this," it was very-
Erica: Because I feel like to an extent, it's just relation ... like, again, all relationships are the relationships, so, you know, there is a level of service to one another, and I don't think anything would look too crazy out-of-line. But, you get to a point where you're like, "Go sit down," and you go scurry in the corner.
Kenrya: Right. And his mama like, "The fuck? Where'd this ...?"
Erica: Lord, when I tell you my Granny's eyes would be like, "Girl,"-
Erica: "If you don't chill ..." so, yeah.
Kenrya: That is interesting. Another thing that happened, and I was thinking about it when you were talking earlier about how you have attempted to have this type of relationship with some men and found that they weren't the ones, was that in the story, she talks about, and there's some flashbacks with her previous dom, and it's great because ... I think Feminista does a great job of showing that there are lots of different ways that this can play out, and showing what it can look like when you're with somebody who is-
Kenrya: Abusive and is not respectful of you and doesn't accept that gift that you're giving them, in a healthy way.
Erica: They abuse it.
Erica: And that's the scary part that you want to ... that's, like, the dark side of it all, you know, it's like there are probably a lot of predators looking around for some little wide-eyed girl talking about, "I want a Dom," it's like, "Yeah, okay, and then I'll just use this as a ploy to abuse you," you know? So, that's scary.
Kenrya: Yeah, that is scary.
Erica: And from what I've seen and read from some women, their entrance into these kinds of relationships have been with really shitty guys, you know, I think it's finding what works ... you know, like kissing a bunch of frogs before you find your Dom prince. And, that is why, me being who I am, I'm reading lots of books, and doing my research, and how this is playing with my codependency, that kind of thing, because I don't want to go into it and end up in a really abusive, fucked-up situation.
Kenrya: But, I mean, I think the great thing is that you have tools, and you have people. As our therapist, we have the same therapist, and she always says, she's like, "You're not the person that you were before, you've got all of these things, this knowledge, these tools, and you are also in a place where you're not doing that strong Black woman stereotype where you are able to be vulnerable with people who have earned that, and that you can go to those people when you need help if you find yourself in a situation with someone who has not earned it.
Kenrya: I think that helps to take the fear out of the new shit, you know?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay, so, question for you, kink question for you, what's your favorite ... what's your instant ... I'm sorry, I'm trying to snap my fingers, my nails are too long. What's your instant pain, like that's like a boop, it's on and popping?
Kenrya: I like a ton of nipple pressure. So, I use nipple clamps. Like, with a heavy chain, a chain that's cold and it's heavy up against your body.
Erica: Yeah, I just got into that, very recently, and was like, "Whoa."
Kenrya: It's like, for me ... and what's crazy ... So, my right nipple is a little more sensitive than the left, like I can feel it more, not even that it's more sensitive, but like that will get me there, and it's literally, it's like a direct line from my right nipple to my pussy, it's insane. Like, you could push me over if you do it right, it's fucking crazy. Yeah, like a lot of ... In the past, niggas be like, "Are you sure? I feel like I've got to be hurting," I'm like, "No, I'm good, I'm strong, keep it moving."
Erica: "No, no, do what I told ... Do what I fucking said."
Kenrya: Exactly, "Don't ask me fucking questions. Just do it like you're trying to hurt me, and it'll be great."
Erica: All righty.
Kenrya: Yeah, what about you?
Erica: I like spankings. Like, throw me over your lap and go to town.
Kenrya: With a hand, with a paddle, with a crop?
Erica: I feel like guys like paddles more because they feel like, "I'm not hurting you," but I appreciate a good hand.
Kenrya: I like a good hand. I have a paddle and a crop.
Erica: Leave me bruised, and I am excited.
Kenrya: See, I don't think I'm ever bruised. I can't see my ass, but I-
Erica: See, I like a bruise, also, because it's a later reminder of like, "Wooh, child, that was wild."
Kenrya: Yeah. Remember I told you I didn't quite have time to have sex this morning even though that was the plan, but we did have a whole spanking session that was very nice, and it was just hands.
Erica: See, yeah.
Kenrya: But I never do the lay across your ... that makes me think of, I don't know-
Erica: Daddy-child type of-
Kenrya: Yeah, and that's too much for me. I can't. But it was literally just he was on the couch, I was standing in front of him, I was talking about going to make breakfast, and then it was just lots of play.
Erica: And that's the thing-
Kenrya: It pops up whenever.
Erica: Sex is more than just sticking it in and out, it's-
Kenrya: Exactly. Like, we'll do that later, but this was just nice and fun.
Erica: Some sensual, fun play. Or not so sensual, just some smacking that ass.
Erica: But, yeah-
Kenrya: And my ass is like new, so I'm enjoying it.
Erica: You're like, "Wait, it's still wiggling? Even after the hand is gone?"
Kenrya: Right. Listeners, "new" in that it has just gotten bigger, not in that I have paid for it, which I ain't got no problems with that either.
Erica: I know, I'm definitely trying to get the stomach taken out.
Kenrya: Are you really?
Erica: I would love to. And we went out of town this past weekend, and so I was in the city of fake bodies, and you see really bad jobs, and then you see really good ones, and it's just like, "Wow." In my mind, the only reason that I felt like these were jobs and not like, "I worked really hard for this," was because nothing about you says that-
Erica: "I'm in the gym all the time."
Erica: Like, if you have really ... and if I'm wrong, I'm so sorry, but, A, no way you in the gym every day with that fly ass pressed blowout and big, fluffy, healthy, natural curls, and then that flat-ass stomach; like, no, bitch, in order to get a stomach like that, you were sweating like a motherfucker in the gym.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's a work stomach, not a "I'm just a super little skinny thing" stomach.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erica: So, yeah, I saw some bodies that I was like, "Hmm, that would be nice. That would be very interesting."
Kenrya: Yeah, especially if somebody else would pay for it.
Erica: I am also firmly in the "I appreciate the body that I have now, I'm not going to spend these days pissed about it or worrying about it or not appreciating because 10 years from now, I'm going to look on this body-
Kenrya: You're going to look back and be like, "Bitch."
Erica: And be like, "Damn."
Kenrya: Bitch, I have never appreciated my body while I was in it. Like, I am just now finally being like, "Ooh, bitch."
Erica: Exactly. Yes. Like, you don't know what you got 'til it's gone, and that's how-
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:48:29].
Erica: I was about my body, and so now I'm like, "You know what, this little tummy? Fuck it. Y'all going to get all this gut and all this motherfucking butt."
Kenrya: Yeah. I like it.
Erica: And, my swimsuits, I was looking like a Luke dancer, my shits are like super tiny-
Kenrya: I haven't seen ... are they the ones you got from that one site that we were looking at?
Erica: Oh, I got another one, I'll show you, it's out there, but it's like tiny and it is so cute and I absolutely love it, and, yeah, you see a little FUPA, but you know what, fuck it, that's that gush that niggas like.
Erica: Beyoncé got it, we got it, too.
Kenrya: Right? And, also, I like a big guy, and so ... I spend my time worrying about my body, and I'm just like, "You know what, for fucking what? They ain't worried about that shit."
Erica: Exactly. And I appreciate a little muffin. So, I know you got to appreciate my little muffins.
Kenrya: Yes, absolutely.
Erica: But, if we have any sponsors for this coolsculpt or lipo, we'd still be willing to take them-
Kenrya: You'll be accepting.
Erica: I'll take sponsorships, and then I'll be on this episode talking about "This was so great, I tried it, and it was fantastic."
Kenrya: She will. You will, bitch. That'd be a Instagram takeover.
Erica: Yeah, definitely.
Kenrya: It's okay.
Erica: I definitely feel like one of those weird companies ... So, we roll with a big crew of amazingly smart and gorgeous bad bitches, I'd want a wig company to ...
Kenrya: Oh, bitch, I got three wigs in my closet. I'm looking at yours up here.
Erica: That's my Prince wig. I want a wig company to sponsor us so that we can take these fly photo shoots in like lime-green wigs, listening to Megan Thee Stallion talking about "Simon says put your hands on your hips, hey," with wigs and stuff.
Kenrya: Wait, how tall do you have to be to be a stallion? I'm guessing I'm firmly a hottie.
Erica: You're firmly a hottie, I think you have to be like 5'7" and above.
Kenrya: Oh, God, I'm nowhere near that. Are you? How tall are you?
Erica: I think I'm 5' ... I say I'm 5'6", but to obtain stallion status, I would be willing to measure myself because I am a fucking stallion.
Kenrya: You are a stallion, that's not a fucking game.
Erica: Yeah, I fucking love ... I love that girl.
Erica: All righty. So, are we it? Is that it?
Kenrya: This is it, yeah.
Kenrya: Thank you so much for joining us.
Erica: Thanks for joining us as talk we about dicks and shit again.
Kenrya: It's what we do, this is what we do. So, y'all will hear from us next week, hopefully you'll be back, right? You will be back-
Erica: You'll be back.
Kenrya: Because you love us. Already.
Erica: You'll be back because you love us.
Kenrya: Already. We'll be back with another really dope story, and an interview-
Erica: An interview.
Kenrya: We're actually going to talk with Feminista Jones, who wrote Push the Button, she'll be here with us next week, that'll be dope. Until then, we are Kenrya and Erica, two hoes making it clap.
Erica: Two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya, and edited B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. Every five star review that you post on Apple Podcast between now and July 31st, 2019, will be entered into a raffle to win a copy of one of the books that we read on the show. We need your help, and we're giving away five books. You just need to post your review, and then email a screenshot of it to TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. And please take a minute to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram at TheTurnOnPodcast, and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other dope shit at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Peace.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their mines. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.