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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read B. Love's "Fans Only" and talk about Only Fans, mindreading, waiting for a potential partner's mask to drop and learning to trust your intuition.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Hey you all. So welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. This is our first episode of season four.
Kenrya: Welcome back folks.
Erica: And for a little bit of extra-ness, you can see us.
Kenrya: If you're watching us.
Erica: That's my Walter Machado.
Kenrya: And for those of you who are listening, you can head to YouTube and search “The Turn On podcast” to see us.
Erica: Of course Kenrya knows to do the important stuff. I'm just over here, acting the fool. So, this week, we're going to read “Fans Only,” which was written by B. Love, well, published by B. Love in 2020. So sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, and whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Fans Only” by B. Love. Watching Aries struggle against the bondage had my dick throbbing. We decided tonight that we would try toys and I honestly didn't know how much more I could take. At first, I didn't think getting a fuck machine was a good idea but as I watched the dildo pump in and out of her as she moaned, I was starting to think she knew exactly what the fuck she was talking about.
Kenrya: Her wrists and ankles were cuffed together and she was on her hands and knees in the middle of my bed. The mechanical dildo was on a medium speed, her pussy lips were swollen, sucking the shit out of the dildo each time it pressed in and out of her. She was so fucking wet. The chocolate-colored, veiny, plastic dick had damn near turned white. The sounds of her moans permeated the room and it was taking everything in me to not cut it off and dive deep.
Kenrya: Crossing my legs, I looked at her lips as they trembled. She bit down on her bottom lip before moaning again. "That thing fuck you better than me?" I asked, standing and walking over to the bed. "No. Never." "What's the difference?" With a smile, she looked at me with fluttering eyes. "This provides a good curve but it doesn't offer the intimacy, sensuality, and connection you do. I can't kiss this, hold this, look into its eyes. There's no connection between me and this. It feels good, it's a fuck, but no one or nothing has ever fucked me better than you."
Kenrya: Having heard enough, I put the small box of toys on the edge of the bed before cutting the machine off. After unlocking the cuffs from her wrists and ankles, I placed Aries on her back. She drew in deep breaths, smiling, as I spread her legs. "Remember your safe word?" She nodded. "What is it?" "Blue." "All right." I pulled the nipple pinchers from the box and placed them around her nipples. As soon as they were applied, she was moaning quietly and squeezing her legs together. I cut the vibrator on and placed it on her clit, moaning deep within my throat the moment she began to squirm.
Kenrya: "How does that feel?" I checked, rifling through the box for something else to use on her. "So fucking good, Titan. Kiss me." Lowering myself to her, I kissed Aries, inhaling her moans. I moved the vibrator softly, pressing it into the top of her clit. She broke our kiss, mouth forming an O shape as her back arched. I never knew pleasing a woman could make me feel so damn good. The more I pleased Aries, the more satisfied I felt.
Kenrya: I pulled away, tugging at the nipple pinchers. Loud moans erupted from her mouth as she fisted the sheets underneath her body. "I'm about to cum, baby," she warned, trembling legs closing against my arm. I spread them again, looking back at the box. Using my free hand to grab the curved dildo that was inside, I looked down to her to gage how long it would take her to cum. Based on her trembling legs and bottom lips, I knew it wouldn't be long.
Kenrya: I set the dildo down and focused on pinching her nipples and massaging her clit with the vibrator until her pussy walls began to pulse. Lowering my lips to her, I kissed her for as long as I could before her moans made it impossible. Once Aries came down from her high, I began to fuck her with the dildo, still playing with her clit and nipples. I never thought I'd see so much fucking cum. A woman so aroused and I wasn't even going that damn deep and fast. I guess it was the combination of stimulation on so many sensitive parts of her body. Whatever the case, there was no doubt in my mind that this was going to be our most viewed video.
Kenrya: When I couldn't take it anymore, I grabbed the butt plug and flipped her onto her back. "You trust me, Bella?" "Yes," she moaned, running her fingers through her hair and pulling it out of her face. "I need you to relax. If it gets too intense, use your safe word." She nodded, looking back at me with a smile. "I can't wait to feel your dick inside me." With a low groan, I arched her back and lowered myself to her asshole, licking it hard and slow, I kept her cheeks spread as she pushed into me and moaned. My tongue slid across her opening and swiped her folds, licking up every drop of cum that has settled at the center of her.
Kenrya: As I lashed onto her clit, I wrapped my arm around her waist to keep her in place. I loved drawing her with my tongue, just to wet her all over again. When her moans turned into whimpers, I covered the anal plug with lubricant and got behind her on my knees. Slowly, I pressed it into her ass, leaning down on her back to whisper into her ear. Aries inhaled a deep breath, gripping the back of my thigh. I continued to ask her if she was okay as I entered her, not stopping until the full plug was safely inside. "How do you feel?" "Full." "Good." I leaned up, settling at her opening. After running the head of my dick up and down her slit, I slowly pressed my way inside.
Kenrya: She was tighter, hotter, and wetter than normal and I didn't know how much I could take. Still, I dove deep, pulling her hair with one hand and gripping her waist with the other. Whimpers and moans poured from her as curses and moans poured from me. She felt so good. The tightness of the plug intensified everything. Her body was shaking every time I dug deep. And the more she cried my name...
Kenrya: My hand wrapped around her neck, pressing her face into the bed. The clear juice turned into white cum as her walls began to pulse. I tried to focus on anything, think of everything other than how good she felt but it did me no good. The moment she fell into the bed as she came and those walls tightened against me, I was a goner. My seed shot deep into her core as I jerked and moaned her name, her real name. That would definitely need to be edited out.
Kenrya: "Oh, my God, Ricky," she slurred, gripping my thigh as I rested my back on her chest. "What are you doing to me?" "Making sure you lose your damn mind just at the thought of me." She chuckled, pulling in deep breaths. "You're doing more than that." And I was but I didn't want to admit it. I was grounding and planting myself in her soul, going beyond the soul-tie. I was rooting myself there. And I wanted to stay there because with Aries, that was the safest space with a woman that I had ever been in. I needed that safety, that security for as long as I could experience it.
Erica: Okay, y'all so we are back. Thank you, Kenrya, for that fabulous reading of what was a sexy motherfucking scene.
Kenrya: Yeah, spicy.
Erica: Yeah, it was real spicy. When I was reading this book, I was like, "Oh, oh, oh." It was like scene after scene after scene we got to pick, so.
Erica: Some books we just have one scene, this book had a good number of them and they were great.
Kenrya: I mean, there's penis touching right out the gate.
Erica: Five star. So, yeah, I loved it. So just a little bit of background on the story. It's about these two people, Aries and Merrick. They are part of a larger friend group, they kind of have this love-hate relationship. I mean, I don't want to go as far as saying enemies to lovers but a bit of that. And they both have dreams of success and all dreams need capital. And they were like, "You know what? Fuck it. Let's start an OnlyFans account." And they do, and hijinks ensue.
Kenrya: Dot, dot, dot.
Erica: Dot, dot, dot. Okay, so, first, let's talk about... Well, first, the sex scene was [inaudible 00:10:23]. Now y'all can see me acting the fool. The sex scene was dope as fuck. I think this is one of the first scenes that we've read where they've actually used toys on each other, like they did some bondage and-
Kenrya: Yeah, I think so. It's so funny because we talk about toys so often. But you're right, I think we actually haven't had a bunch of books where they were used in the course of the story.
Erica: Using accoutrements.
Erica: But, I think one of the things that we say... One of the reasons that we say we like toys, or at least the only reason I like toys, is because it adds a little variety, a little extra.
Kenrya: Yeah. And you're right so I can make sure that you always finish exactly the way that you want to finish.
Erica: Exactly. Okay, so let's just jump off into this OnlyFans thing, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And we're going to have a guest on and she's going to kind of... we're going to talk more about actual sex workers and sex work. But I have heard a million times, and maybe it's just me, because I'm Erica and I am a sex person, so I get, I mean, random woman come up to me and be like, "My husband don't like me sucking dick." So I get it. But-
Erica: I have heard more times than a few people say, "I would totally start an OnlyFans. I would totally start an OnlyFans-”
Kenrya: What's the if?
Erica: “... if I can hide my face."
Erica: Yeah, yeah. And it's just like, okay, I mean, I get it, but to me it's kind of like it just adds to the stigma of sex work.
Kenrya: Sure, but I think... Remember when we started this show?
Erica: No, you’re so right. [crosstalk 00:12:19]. Because when we started this show, I was definitely on some, Erica will stay somewhat anonymous. [crosstalk 00:12:31]
Kenrya: We even had illustrated headshots.
Erica: Yeah. And if you know Kenrya... One trip on her Instagram account and you know who I am. And then cancer hit. I was just like, "Fuck it."
Kenrya: Fuck it, yeah.
Erica: But I feel like there... Not to be like "not all hos," because I'm not all hos, but I feel like that there was a difference between okay, I got to keep this shit quiet because I don't want to fuck up my job and I got to keep this shit quiet because I think that's what dirty people do.
Kenrya: Ah, so that's the vibe that you're getting is that they think that OnlyFans is dirty as opposed to I don't want my boss to know. Okay.
Erica: Yeah. Or I don't need my family to know, which again... We all fuck, right? [crosstalk 00:13:25]. To me-
Kenrya: My dad, he knows about this show but I told him don't listen. He said, "Okay."
Erica: Oh, my aunt has... I don't know if she's listened to any recently but she definitely [crosstalk 00:13:33].
Kenrya: I remember.
Erica: Yeah, she was so excited to find this show.
Kenrya: Didn't she have her white friend help her find it?
Erica: She had her white friend, shout-out to her white friend, that helped her find this show. She called me, she literally called me, "Get off! Come here! Get off! Come here!" And I was like-
Kenrya: No, no.
Erica: Not quite, but okay.
Kenrya: I'm fairly certain that my dad's wife listens. Because she's always liking posts, especially because she a Facebook person. And I'm like, "Okay, girl. Enjoy. Don't tell him nothing."
Kenrya: But it's not because I'm ashamed, it's just because I don't think he wants to know and I know he don't.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. So, it irks me when people are like, "I'll do OnlyFans, but I want to hide my face." And it's like, don’t nobody wanting to see your half limp fucking. Because as someone that records herself having sex, I will tell you it is never what you think it looks like. I mean, I like it. I like to record, but in my mind I was like [inaudible 00:14:41]. And then I run it back and it was like [inaudible 00:14:47].
Kenrya: Just like when we were dancing in the backyard the other day.
Erica: Oh, my God. So we had some girlfriends over, and we did a socially distanced backyard thing. And we were playing music-
Kenrya: And by girlfriends we mean it was like five of us.
Erica: Yeah. So it was like five of us in a circle around a fire pit. And we were playing music and in my mind I was like, [inaudible 00:15:16]. In my mind I was really fucking it up like, "Go DeMarcus, go DeMarcus, go DeMarcus, go DeMarcus." But then Kenrya sent me a video and I was literally like this, "Go Ethel, go Ethel, go Ethel."
Kenrya: Your feet didn't move. You weren't the only one.
Erica: Yeah. But it was even more fucked up, the next morning I woke up and my thighs were hurting like I had been doing something. You would've thought that I was a Luke dancer the way my body felt. And I was literally like just [inaudible 00:15:47]. It was horrible.
Kenrya: Yeah. Well, at least you got up. I sat in my chair until “Wipe Me Down.”
Erica: Was it “Wipe Me Down”?
Kenrya: Something [crosstalk 00:15:59].
Erica: But even then... Okay. “Back That Ass Up.” For a woman of a certain age it is your mating call, it is like the cuckoo, cuckoo and I'm so mad I get to see this.
Kenrya: Yo, did you see somebody... Did you see this? It was sweet but also made me feel really old. Somebody Tweeted at us last night, they were like, "Listening to older ladies talk about sex makes me talk about having good sex."
Erica: What the fuck?
Kenrya: I know. "Makes me afraid of what I got to go through to get there." And I was like... one part of me was like, "Oh, my God, thank you for listening and I hope that this is helpful!" And the other part was, "Older lady?" But we are going to be 40, so, I guess, technically, I mean [crosstalk 00:16:48].
Erica: What the fuck? What the fuck?
Kenrya: A shoutout to you for listening. This is not at all meant to... We're not upset with you or anything but it was definitely a moment.
Erica: Oh, no, I fucking appreciate it. But yeah, uh-huh.
Kenrya: I was sitting in the bed with my partner and I was like, "What am I supposed to say to this?" I closed it. I was like, I'll let Erica respond. Because that was kind of fucked up.
Erica: Okay, I'll help her, it's fine. But, yeah, damn, we are older. In my mind I am young, I am fucking it up. Look at this show.
Kenrya: Look at this shoulder.
Erica: Look at this shoulder. Is this the shoulder of an old bitch? No.
Erica: In my mind, I am fucking it up, like, "Go DeMarcus, go DeMarcus." Do you know what that is? It was some-
Erica: It's a Vine or maybe a TikTok, "Go DeMarcus, go DeMarcus, go DeMarcus." And yeah, I was like an old lady.
Kenrya: But we had fun.
Erica: Hitting a body roll. I'm sorry. Okay.
Kenrya: Yeah. You can't go wrong with a good body roll.
Erica: So, Lord. Okay-
Kenrya: Yeah, older ladies. It's been playing in my head since last night.
Erica: And now I ought to see it. Okay, so. I am thinking about... Oh, so the sex stigma, if I could I'd do OnlyFans, blah, blah, blah. Poses a question: Would you do OnlyFans if there wasn't a stigma around sex work?
Kenrya: No, because I don't think it necessarily... I don't think anybody wants to see that.
Erica: It's not your jam.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, listen, I enjoy myself, I got the things that I do, but also because I have the things that I do I know what I got to do to make me cum, and I know what I got to do to make my partner cum. And you only want to watch that a couple of times, honestly, because it's the same thing.
Erica: And, I mean, I am definitely a don't give a fuck, fuck y'all, I'm on my own shit type of bitch. But I do feel a little judgy about this. When I cum, I don't need you to see how my fucking legs lock like a goat and I fall off the dick, right?
Erica: I don't need that. I don't need that. I don't need that.
Erica: But, yeah.
Kenrya: And one of the best parts about my sex with my partner is the talking and the laughing and him making fun of me because of what I do when I cum, and that kind of stuff. And that's not going to be fun to anybody except for us, so.
Erica: And I don't need y'all talking about the way I cum. He can, but you can't.
Kenrya: Exactly. So yeah, I just don't think it'd be interesting. And then, also super honest moment, I'm very critical in some ways on some days about my body and I don't need everybody seeing nothing, so.
Erica: Yeah, I don't need you to-
Kenrya: I share my body with the folks that I want to.
Erica: Yeah. But those people that do, that can and do, I appreciate it because it's you are a very intricate part of my situation. But I don't think I'll personally do it.
Kenrya: Yeah. It's literally just because I don't think anybody really wants to see it and it's fine, I enjoy it.
Erica: Somebody does, but yes.
Kenrya: Probably, but-
Erica: Because there is a scratch for every itch, and your scratch maybe a whole niche in injuries... industries niche.
Kenrya: Yes, injuries. ’Cause I'm an older lady?
Erica: I'm literally going to screenshot this and put it... I mean, I'm not going to take her out but, yeah. Okay.
Kenrya: For real, for real though, shoutout to you for listening. I don't want it just to feel like we're upset; we're not.
Erica: Yeah. I'm trying to see how old is Black, queer, feminist ones. Yeah, you're already adorable.
Kenrya: Yes. Our baby. Yeah.
Erica: But, yeah, but all right we're some old bitches. We're some old bitches.
Kenrya: We've been through some things that got us here.
Erica: We've been through some things. Okay-
Kenrya: And honestly, so I know, tangent, last night my partner was like, he was like, "I saw somewhere and it asked if you could be 25 again forever, would you?" And I was like, "Fuck, no."
Erica: Fuck no! If I had this mind.
Kenrya: He was like, "Okay, what if it was if you had your 25 year old body?"
Kenrya: Right. I was like, "I'll take my 25 year old body," because I worked and I worked out, that was it. I had no money so I wasn't going out a lot of places to eat, I was living in New York and broke as hell, so I literally worked out more.
Erica: I was hungry today, so I'll order sushi.
Kenrya: Yeah. I worked out three days a week at work, five days a week at home. My body was my favorite at that point. Although, looking back I needed some sandwiches. Which is what I ate for lunch every day because a bitch was broke.
Erica: Ooh, I could go for a good tuna sandwich.
Kenrya: But I was a dummy.
Erica: Girl, as a box of rocks. God protects babies and fools and His ass was out protecting my foolish ass, so.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. And I'm enjoying my life so much more now. I have so much actual joy that I wouldn't trade that, so yeah.
Erica: Okay. All right. So there was one line in this book that, you didn't read it, but it stood out to me. And this is one of my central questions. Now as I date, particularly with the podcast that gives you an inside look at Erica's mind. So there was a line, it says, "Even if we were dating," this is Aries talking to Merrick, "Even if we were dating, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you what I need because you could use it to trap me and then stop when I love you or when we're married." And that was woo. Because that's how I feel. How do you balance not expecting your partner to understand what's going on in your head? Not expecting your partner just to guess what you're thinking, with at the same time not giving this nigga a playbook to fucking carry me. You know?
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't balance that because... I'm not going to say, oh, because my man is great, although he is. No, I'm going to say because I've gotten to a point where I put time and energy into someone who I could trust in that way.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: I have not always done a good job of balancing that before and ended up in relationships with people who had not earned my vulnerability in that way, and my trust in that way. And so I'll say all I have to say is it's hard as fuck.
Erica: I mean, because my question is well, how do you know if they've earned it? Or could they just be window dressing until they "gotcha bitch!"?
Kenrya: Okay, so going back to that whole process that I went through with our therapist, right? First I had to abstain from talking, texting, dating, everything. And then, once I started dating folks, there was a 90-day probation period in which I had to really not give up too much, not move too fast, really dig into who this person was and spending time with them because-
Erica: And that's not a 90-day sex rule, right?
Kenrya: Oh, no, I was fucking.
Erica: All right, all right.
Kenrya: It takes about 90 days for a mask to drop, to slip. So look to see if something falls. And it was also going back to that whole list, those two lists that we talked about last season, right? The list of does this person meet these not superficial criteria that I've put in place but more importantly, how do I feel when I'm with this person? And really getting to learn how to trust myself again. And I think that was really the key for me because before I could learn to trust a partner, I had to learn how to trust my intuition. Because so often, alarm bells would be going off right from the beginning with people. I mean, I remember I went on that one date and had a panic attack as soon as I got home. And still went on another date. The fuck?
Kenrya: So doing the work and therapy, honestly, to get to the point where I could trust myself and so then if I had any inkling... I think people, and I know I've done this, look for a reason. You have to have a reason to not want to be with someone instead of realizing that any reason that you have is a reason. And I used to need them to do something for there to be some reason for me to leave as opposed to just saying, "This doesn't feel right. My stomach hurts when he calls. Something, I can't put my finger on it, but something just doesn't feel like it's right for me.” And once I started actually trusting my gut... that's why we joke about me being the queen of blocking niggas, but that's really what it comes down to is that I started listening to my gut the first time it said something. Whether that was while we were still on an app, the first time he texts me, the first time we're on the phone, if anything doesn't feel right, I send my, "It was really great getting to know you but I don't think we're a good fit. I wish you well." And I send it, and I hit block and I keep it fucking moving.
Kenrya: And so that was about trusting myself. And once I learned how to trust myself, I was able to give people that time to then get to decide if I could trust them. And once I got there, which has only been with this one person in all this fucking time that I was trying to date, then it allowed me to be able to let my guard down and be vulnerable. But it really started with me.
Erica: Yeah. So remember last season, weeks ago, we worked-
Kenrya: It's so long ago.
Erica: Do you remember last season there was a pleasant guy?
Kenrya: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Erica: Or he was nice, but it was just pleasant and I was looking for passion?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: So I finally cut things off with him.
Kenrya: I figured because you hadn't mentioned him.
Erica: But the thing is, I was a bitch about it. I could've been more upfront. I just kind of slowly creeped to the back, and he was like, "Hey, you're pulling back." And I was like, "This is why." But part of what made this-
Kenrya: Good for you for saying something.
Erica: Oh, and that's the thing, everything was right about him, it just didn't feel right. And that's what I had to tell him. I hate to be on some it's not you, it's me type shit because most of the time it's you, nigga. But he checked all the boxes. He was nice, he checked literally all the boxes. He would be great for someone, it's just-
Kenrya: Just not you.
Erica: It wasn't there. And I think because I went through kissing so many frogs that when I did meet... I mean, I say kissing frogs. Some of these niggas was just not for me. Somebody will love that fuck shit, just not me. You know?
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Needs to really hit all... fire on all four cylinders, six cylinders, eight. How many cylinders? Fire on all cylinders.
Kenrya: I don't know. You're asking me?
Erica: Firing on all cylinders. He had everything but it just wasn't there. And it wasn't even a bad feeling, it was just like a-
Kenrya: It's not it.
Erica: Yeah. So it was difficult because people-pleaser Erica, codependent Erica, was still... I mean, the bitch ain't always there but she was in the back and I was like, ugh, so. But, I got through it and I'm very proud myself.
Kenrya: Yeah. And I think doing that sets us up to be able to let our guard down and trust the right person, let the right one in. That's a title of a horror movie.
Erica: That's what she said. Let the right one in? No?
Kenrya: Oh, oh, yes. That works.
Erica: Jeez, Louise. [crosstalk 00:29:47]
Kenrya: Where is my shirt? Do you still have yours?
Erica: No, because it was... I think it got a hole in it. But also, you bought it when I was a much smaller person, so I look very... like a sausage. Very sausage-y in it.
Kenrya: I don't know where mine is. I think I might have had to let it go because I know the lettering had started to crack. We have that's what she said shirts. I wore them when I was pregnant.
Erica: It said, "That's what," and then it's like, "She."
Kenrya: She said.
Erica: No, it was just, "That's what," and then, "She."
Kenrya: That's what she. Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Yeah, so it was cute. All right.
Kenrya: Yeah, we were cute. Like almost 10 years ago.
Erica: On a tangent, “The Office” had the best series finale out of any series that I've watched thus far. Not saying it was the best... I mean, I love “The Office” but-
Kenrya: I'm trying to remember the finale.
Erica: Huh? You don't remember series finale?
Kenrya: I'm trying to remember. Was it a wedding?
Erica: It was Dwight's wedding. They finished the tour, I mean, the show and then they did a reunion and everybody came back. And so it had enough of the reunion-y aspect with also the we're wrapping it up and putting a bow on it. It was definitely not that bullshit “Game of Thrones,” but it was great.
Kenrya: I'm still angry about that, honestly.
Erica: And that is why “The Office” is always on my TV. “The Office”-
Kenrya: Yeah, we watch it a lot on the weekends.
Erica: “The Office” is like my “Matlock.” You know how you'd always go to Granny’s house and “Matlock,” or “Perry Mason.” That is me. I wake up and I turn on “The Office.” When I finish up working today, I'mma go and turn on “The Office.”
Kenrya: So we do that with “Golden Girls” on the weekends. We wake up, and we put on “Golden Girls.”
Erica: “Golden Girls” is definitely an ultimate, but “The Office,” nonstop. My child will be old and gray and be like, "My momma used to watch ‘The Office.’” So. That won't happen.
Kenrya: Why not?
Erica: Okay. Do you think that there is a level of... So one of the things that I do when I'm dating, somebody drove down the street, bumping Keith Sweat,
Kenrya: Is that what they were playing?
Erica: (singing). All right-
Kenrya: It's a good, sunny day for it.
Erica: It's cold as fuck, though.
Kenrya: It is. I went out to the porch for a second to get the mail and I was deceived. I needed my fucking coat.
Erica: So when I'm dating, I try not to overthink it, I just do what feels natural to me. And I'm like, "If this isn't enough, or if this is too much, then obviously I'm not the person for you." And that's how I feel with guys doing stuff or people doing stuff.
Kenrya: What do you mean?
Kenrya: I'm asking for clarification.
Erica: Yeah, so I shouldn't have to ask you... And this is the whole balance thing. I shouldn't have to ask you, "Hey..." I can't think. You know, but like, "Hey, do this." If it's not in your nature to do this for me, then... And so that's what the balance thing because it's like, yeah, you're not going to know everything but at the same time you need to have it in you a little bit.
Kenrya: Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to disagree with you. And I'm going to disagree because-
Erica: I mean, I need feedback. That's why I'm asking.
Kenrya: Because they ain't mind readers any more than you are. Yes, basic courtesy like don't let the door hit me when we walking out or basic stuff, but how is somebody supposed to know that one of the things that you want your partner to do is to drive on every date or that you... I don't know. You know what I mean? People-
Erica: Yeah, see that would be some shit that I would be like, "He made me."
Kenrya: Yes. “He made me meet him.” Well, nigga, you didn't tell him that that's not what you want.
Erica: Could you mind your business, bitch?
Kenrya: So I'm just saying-
Erica: Yeah, that's the thing.
Kenrya: Yeah, and so that's what... I think that so often when people are in the getting to know you stage of dating, they shy away from the compatibility conversations. So you might talk about what happened at work that day or, I don't know, what your mamma told you today. But are people having, and some of this is deeper, right? But the “do you want kids, do you have kids, how many kids do you want” conversations. They're avoiding the “I'm really unhappy in my job and I want to make this transition to this thing, the I think I only really want to be in this area for another year or so and I probably want to move to California” conversations. The “it's really important to me that my partner be interested in moving in together within the next year.” Those conversations that will fundamentally let you know whether or not somebody is for you, I think we don't use those three months, those 90 days in an intentional way to actually try to figure out-
Erica: You're just existing.
Kenrya: Yeah. You should be using that time to figure out if someone is a match for you, not just if y'all have fun in the bedroom or on the couch or in the car. That's an important part of that but if y'all like the same restaurant that's cool but it's not the only thing, right? How often are you at home? My partner likes to be out and I like to be in the motherfucking house. So we had to figure out what our balance is and how do we make that happen. So before pandemic we would always go out-
Erica: I was about to say, after pandemic you'll have to give him a little bit more, just for a good, smooth 90-days. 90 days to six months. He needs to make it up, bitch.
Kenrya: Yes. But we used to go out every Friday and Saturday because that is what he loved and the rest of the days we was in the motherfucking house unless there was a specific event on a week day because I don't like it. And so that was how we figured out our balance. And so you can't figure out your balance if you're not talking about it.
Erica: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: So asking the questions that feel difficult or asking the questions that are important to you. They don't have to be difficult, but if being able to go out to eat is important to you, you got to say something. Maybe he don't even like to cook every night. Or maybe he expects you to cook every night. Right. Conversations.
Erica: Okay, okay, okay. Well, I like it. Side note: they had a shout-out to Olive Garden in this book. They were like, "We're going to roll over to Olive Garden." I literally highlighted it, underlined it, and wrote in all caps, classy.
Erica: I love Olive Garden.
Kenrya: They're so good. It's so good. We've gotten it like, I think, twice during the pandemic. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah, I love Olive Garden and I know how to prepare it. That's how you know I'm like [smacks lips]. Because I know exactly how I want it done. I get lasagna, and then I get the meat sauce on it, but then I also get a side of the Alfredo and pour it on top too so it's like a cream sauce-
Kenrya: Yeah. I've had to place that order for you. Remember we did Olive Garden on New Year's day one year we had the kids? Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. So I was like, "Make sure we get..." Yeah. It's pretty-
Kenrya: I mean, you know what you like.
Erica: And you know, that's why I'm old, when I have my mouth set... when my mouth is fixed for something, it needs to deliver or we're going to have a problem.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So you're just going to be really disappointed. Either way, it sucks.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. So on this kind of friends to lovers, not quite. Not friends to lovers, enemies to lovers, but not quite. Merrick and Aries, they're part of this bigger friend group. And it's more like a, "Why you always fucking with me?" That kind of conversation.
Kenrya: Yeah. He pokes at her all the time.
Erica: Yes. Now there's another story that I'm reading for this show and that shit I'm like, I would've donkey kicked that motherfucker square in the forehead, right here. But, anyway. But at one point, she was like... when they started fucking and doing their OnlyFans together. At one point she was like, "Why are you being so nice? Why have you changed stuff up?" And this nigga said, "As long as you are letting me into your sacred space, I am going to worship you." That was so beautiful and hotep-y in not a hotep way.
Kenrya: It makes me internally roll my eyes, but also I like the turn of phrase. As a writer, I like it. But as somebody who has been with hoteps, I'm like [inaudible 00:39:21].
Erica: And I think that that's important because, again, we go on this whole boys are assholes because they like the attention. And it's like, no, if this motherfucker, if you're letting him be a part of your space, part of your body, just even that-
Kenrya: All in your body in various places.
Erica: In your orbit. If I'm letting you in, if I'm going to fucking pull down a drawbridge and let your ass in, nigga act like you got some fucking sense.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. So he got some act right.
Erica: He got some act right in the way of pussy. Pussy. And he knew what to do. I thought that was really sweet.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Okay. Final piece. This is a spoiler, okay? This is a spoiler. If you haven't read, and you want to read stop listening now because this is a spoiler. But it's something that I need to address because it kind of bothered me about the book. This is a spoiler.
Erica: Okay. I love this book. B. Love is an amazing writer because with me, it take me a minute, like egh. I was hooked from the moment that I started the book. Love the book, love the book, love the book. But at the end of the book... So Aries and Merrick, Merrick wants to be a music producer so he's scraping up his OnlyFans money, and he's saving his OnlyFans money so he can build a studio. Aries wants to be a fashion designer. And she's saving her money because she lives in... Oh, also, I love affluent Black folk. Or just Black folk that take care of the kids, and not in a... Wow, that came out really fucking wrong. But Aries is in her mid-20s, still living at home. Why? Because her parents was like, "Why are you worrying about being out in the world?"
Kenrya: Which, honestly, is something we need to normalize.
Kenrya: I mean, my partner's, his family's immigrants and he's like... I mean, he did move out at 18 but his sister still lives at home. And he was like, "It lets you get your shit together before you go out into the world." Why wouldn't you give your kids that gift if you could?
Erica: Yes. And so I love that part about it. But one of the things that she was doing was she was at home, saving her money so that she can move to California and be an intern under this fashion designer, whatever. And so dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Happily ever after. They're together and she gets the internship and it's at some fashion show they announce it and she gets her internship. And it's like [inaudible 00:42:10]. And then cue the music. But then, this nigga, Merrick, gets down on one knee and proposes to her.
Erica: And I get it. I understand how I love you so much and I want you to... I want this to be the cherry on the top, right?
Erica: But on the other hand, I'm like, yo, just give her two really special days, right?
Kenrya: Yeah. Don't combine them, but also don't make this about you.
Erica: Yeah. But I don't think-
Kenrya: That that was his motivation but oh, yeah.
Erica: Yeah. That it makes it about him. They look at it... They probably look at it like, I'm making it about her because she gets a really nice ring and dah, dah, dah, dah dah. But, yeah. I was just like, aw man.
Kenrya: And there's also this, always this little piece of me that's like, so now I'm worthy because I just accomplished this thing? You know what I mean? Would you want to [inaudible 00:43:16]? Would you just carry it around until I tiptoed over the you earned it barrier? You know what I'm saying?
Kenrya: Do it another day. That's also how I feel about people who propose at other people's weddings.
Erica: Yeah, yeah, yeah, girl.
Kenrya: It's like a huge movie trope and I hate it. Happens in books, actually, a lot of these books too. I hate it.
Erica: Because, I think also we have all been in a relationship where... I mean, we've all been at the point where you're at a wedding and you're just kind of swept up in the love. And you're like, oh, this is nice. Nigga, I don't want you to feel [crosstalk 00:43:52].
Kenrya: Does somebody pay for it?
Erica: Yeah. I don't want you to feel like you swept up [inaudible 00:43:56]. No, nigga. Sleep on that shit.
Kenrya: Right. [crosstalk 00:44:03]. Especially if you don't have a ring.
Kenrya: Don't put no fucking Froot Loop on my finger.
Erica: I love Froot Loops.
Kenrya: A gummy worm.
Erica: Let's not speak ill of Froot Loops.
Kenrya: Yeah, I don't think I've had Froot Loops. We used to get the little boxes, the little tiny-
Erica: Yeah, your daughter's had Froot Loops in the past year, I can promise you.
Kenrya: Oh, I know, at your house.
Kenrya: I don't think... And she had some at my sister's house once too.
Erica: And then she'd be like, "Can I get a little bag to take home?"
Kenrya: I bought her some organic Froot Loops, and she won't eat them.
Erica: I'm sorry.
Kenrya: She didn't even taste them, though. I'm certain they sound good.
Erica: Beet with dye. Red dye made from beets and ain't the same as fucking-
Kenrya: Yes. Red dye is dangerous. Red dye number five is dangerous.
Erica: In large quantities.
Kenrya: Yes. I was trying to let her have the best of both worlds, let her have-
Erica: There is no best of both worlds with Froot Loops, it's either a fucking Froot Loop or you're eating ashy loops.
Kenrya: Then I guess she ain't going to have it, I tried.
Erica: Fructatios Loops. She'll get Froot Loops when she come down here. Okay. So, yeah. That just kind of made me, ugh.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah.
Erica: But, I mean, it was a great story. I loved it. I thought it was great. I do like the idea of the OnlyFans being kind of the jumping off point for it because everybody know OnlyFans. Well, I don't know. I feel like everyone's on OnlyFans, right? But because I am in a world of very sex-positive people, maybe they're not and it's just in my world everybody's on OnlyFans. It's kind of like when you're in DC and you're like, "Oh, there's Black people." And you go out and you're like, "Oh, wait, that ain't it."
Kenrya: There's a lot of white people. Yeah. I don't know. Because I'm also in this situation, yeah.
Erica: Yeah. But I feel like there's been-
Kenrya: I don't know. My guess is that everybody had to know somebody who knows somebody, whether they know it or not, who has an OnlyFans, right?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Kenrya: So it's just a matter of how open people are about what they're doing.
Erica: Yes. Well, if you have an OnlyFans and want to tell us about your experiences, particularly why you chose to do it, let some players know.
Kenrya: Yeah. Email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com.
Kenrya: Then maybe we'll have you on.
Erica: Yes. So with that, we'll take a quick break and then we will go to our next segment: What's turning us on?
Kenrya: Hey all. Today's a great day to start your own podcast. Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it'd be fun to have your own show like us, podcasting is an easy and inexpensive way to expand your reach online. Buzzsprout is hands-on and the easiest and best way to launch, promote, and track your podcast. Your show gets put online and listed in all the major podcast directories like Apple Podcast, Spotify, and Google, everything, really, within minutes of finishing and uploading your recording. We use it here for The Turn On, and I can testify to the fact that it's pretty fucking dope. That is actually really, really true.
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Erica: Okay, so what's turning us on? What's turning me on right now? Sometimes they're called jiggle balls, sometimes they're called Ben Wa balls, I don't know. But here are mine. These are mine.
Kenrya: Oh, I should've got mine. Mine are silver and-
Erica: You see the clickle clackle?
Erica: So these little balls, you put them up your vagina. You know how they say when you do kegels it kind of helps you? This is the same concept. You put it up there, just a little way and you kind of...
Kenrya: You start walking around with them. You know those ankle weights which I had on for when I walk?
Erica: Yes, exactly.
Kenrya: It's like having ankle weight, but for your pussy.
Erica: Up your pussy.
Kenrya: Yeah, it helps to strengthen your pelvic floor.
Erica: Yes. So some of them, like this. Can you hear that? The rattling?
Kenrya: Little bit, yeah.
Erica: Some of them have a little tiny ball, like a hard ball, more compact ball inside if the bigger ball, which is what mine do. So if you're on a boat and then it's like...
Kenrya: And mine has a jingle bell in it. I wish I had it. It's like tinkle, tinkle, tinkle, tinkle.
Erica: So I like it because, yes, it also helps keep that grip, that ultra monkey grip tight, but I like it because I mean, it's not necessarily a sex toy but it can be because I like mind control, Deebo mind control. I will text a picture of this to a boo in the morning, and by the time they see me, they'll be like *kiss*. And this is just all excited knowing that. I mean, I usually don't wear it all day. I don't think you're supposed to wear it all day. But-
Kenrya: It's not necessary.
Erica: These niggas don't know. They don't know. So anyway, I like it because not only does it help keep the coochie grip on Gorilla Glue status, but it also serves as kind of a cute little reminder to your bae or boo that I got some things going on. You're thinking about some things, so. There you go. Jiggle balls, Ben Wa balls.
Kenrya: Yes. I watched a movie... Ah, shit. I told you my partner and I have been watching Korean movies. God. Oh, it was “The Handmaiden.” So those figured quite prominently. Mm-hmm (affirmative), it's a very good movie and I don't want to say shit because I don't want to give it away because it's one of these where you don't know what's happening. But a set of those figures quite prominently as an actual sex toy in that movie.
Erica: All right.
Kenrya: Highly recommend “The Handmaiden.” Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: All righty. All righty.
Erica: Okay. Well, we will include a link for these in our show notes so you can go there, click, and shop to your heart's content.
Erica: And also support The Turn On. So with that said, I think that's it, right?
Kenrya: That's it.
Erica: Of our first episode of season four. This is Erica and Kenrya. Two hos... Come on Kenrya.
Kenrya: Really? Okay.
Erica: Erica and Kenrya. Two hos making a clap.
Kenrya: Making it clap.
Erica: See, this is why. Dear listener, this is why this happens this way. Bye, y'all.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya, and edited by B’lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today, and access lots of goodies, including two-for-one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions. And follow us on Twitter at @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram at @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at heTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to sex therapist Jenifer Smith about how improved communication, a good book and some excellent porn can improve your sex life.
The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today, we're talking to Jenifer Smith, pronouns she and her. Jenifer has been providing relationship and sex advice to couples and individuals for 13 years.
Kenrya: She has a double master's degree in marriage and family therapy and mental health counseling, and is also a sex therapist.
Kenrya: She's currently the co-host of the Love, Lust and Lies podcast, which can be found on all podcast streaming platforms. Thanks so much for joining us today, Jenifer.
Jenifer Smith: Thank you for having me.
Erica: So again, thank you. We appreciate you coming out. When I first met you, I was like, she's got to come on to The Turn On. So I appreciate you making time.
Jenifer Smith: It took like a year in the making.
Erica: I know. Things have been leading up to this.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I like a good climax. That's okay.
Erica: Hey, hey, hey. Tell us a little bit about your background and how it brought you to doing this work.
Jenifer Smith: My background actually started in radio. In college, I used to host a sex talk radio show and the show was already in existence when I got on it. And funny enough, the guy that I hosted the show with back then is the guy I host my podcast with now, 16 years later.
Erica: Oh, wow.
Erica: Full circle.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. So talking about those topics of sex, love, relationships, dating is what really started to drive me and really fueled me to talk to people about relationships.
Jenifer Smith: And so I wrote for a sex advice column for a magazine for four years after graduation. And I was like, yeah, this seems more like a calling than it is a hobby now.
Jenifer Smith: So that's when I decided to become a therapist. But that-
Erica: Was your major in college therapy or anything like that? Or were you like an econ major or some shit?
Jenifer Smith: Communications.
Jenifer Smith: Communications was my major. PR was my concentration. If you talked to me back then, I was going to be a hard-hitting publicist. And then, that's just not what happened.
Kenrya: Oh, same. That was my specialization too.
Jenifer Smith: Yes. It's funny how you use those skills-
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: ... in a career change. So people ask me-
Kenrya: We use them for this show, shit.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, people ask me all the time, "Well, how did you get to doing TV or radio or magazines?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm a communications major, and PR and media is always going to be number one for me."
Jenifer Smith: And so now, being able to use therapy in that same platform is pretty dope to combine my worlds together.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's awesome. What did you want to be when you grew up?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, a publicist and a lawyer.
Kenrya: You're like, just give me all the coins.
Jenifer Smith: Let me talk for a living and I'm set.
Erica: And now you talk about masturbation.
Jenifer Smith: Now, I'm talking about masturbation, the gift that keeps on giving.
Erica: Yes, yes. Okay, so when we asked you to come along, we wanted to talk about living your best sex life. On the podcast, we read a lot of erotica, which most people's fantasies of what their best sex life is. So what does that mean to you? What does the best sex life mean to you?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, that's a really good question. The best sex life to me is one where both partners are equally pleasured all the time.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: And that comes with just even conversation in physical sense of sex or intimacy or foreplay, in all areas that you're just deliciously pleasured with your partner. And that's how I look at it-
Erica: Oh, I like that, delicious.
Jenifer Smith: Because for me ... Yeah, because for me, I need good conversation to even make me feel aroused, to want to be intimate with you.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: So for me, I need it all across the board.
Kenrya: Yeah. On the other side of that coin, what things do you think tend to stand in the way of people having the best sex life of their dreams?
Jenifer Smith: Communication, I would say is number one. Since I've been a therapist, that's probably what I've heard the most is communication. People aren't able to communicate what their needs are.
Jenifer Smith: And a lot of times, people aren't communicating with themselves of what their pleasure points are or what it takes to get them off, or even wanting to have that conversation of what are their real insecurities about their body here about being intimate, which then prevents you from getting close to somebody else. So I would say communication for sure.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Do you see a difference in communication? I'm thinking about stereotypes that people have, right? That men are poor communicators. Do you see a difference in how communication goals in terms of the orientations and the makeup of the partnerships? You know what I mean?
Jenifer Smith: For sure, which is funny that you say that because I feel like men are the better communicators with what they want sexually. Women are the ones that actually lack that communication.
Jenifer Smith: And they usually lack communication because one, they haven't explored their own body. Two, they are afraid to actually communicate what they want because afraid of judgments, or they've opened up to somebody else before and that person shamed them or put them down. And now it feels like it's unsafe to share what you really want.
Erica: You know that's interesting. I was doing a class last night about sex and technology, and so a lot of it was porn. Well, the first part of it was talking a lot about porn.
Erica: And one of the things that she mentioned was that she finds that couples that watch porn together tend to communicate their desires better in relationships, or just people that watch porn are able to better articulate their desires.
Erica: And the study show what ... Most people under-report. But anyway, the studies show that-
Kenrya: Oh, how much porn they watch?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, definitely.
Erica: The studies show that men watch more porn than women. And so I think that goes hand in hand with what you just said about the fact that men are more ... They're able to say, "I want this," because they've seen that happen in porn.
Jenifer Smith: Oh, for sure. I think I agree with that a hundred percent, Erica. I think women definitely under report it because of the judgment and the shame that come ... And it's funny enough, as long as I've been doing this work, most of the shame come from other women. It's not even coming from men.
Erica: Yup, yup.
Kenrya: Listen, that's real. A scroll through fucking Black Twitter will show you that.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. And that's sad because there are porn that you can watch that is, I would say approachable for couples because I don't think all porn-
Jenifer Smith: ... is applicable to everybody's sex life.
Jenifer Smith: But there are some good safe porn that you can go watch as a couple, even if it's your first couple of times watching it, where you can have a dialogue about it.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: And people have to actually take the actual, sometimes the actual intercourse out of it. And just talk about, what is it that you see? What is it that you like out of this? Do you like the way she responds when he does that?
Jenifer Smith: Talking about how you act, what the experience is. And I think that people miss that a lot of the time. They miss what the experience is supposed to be about.
Erica: Yeah. So what things do you think people should consider when they're assessing their current sex life and where they want it to be?
Jenifer Smith: Hmm, that's a good question. Are you happy? Are you satisfied? Do you ever think about stepping outside of the relationship to meet your sexual needs?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: Those would be a few, I think of voice assess.
Kenrya: At what point do you need to be concerned? Okay. So we all ... At least, I got a bit of imagination. So we've heard from lots of folks who have their fantasies and have their what if people and have all these things that go on in their head.
Kenrya: How do you know when you cross the line between just fantasizing about something that's a little different and maybe being about to cross over that line?
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, I've heard it so many different ways too. I mean, because some people, that's all they think about is somebody else while they're having sex with their current partner. And I think that that gets to be a very dangerous territory if it's an actual ... Okay, like-
Kenrya: Like a real person that's walking around on earth.
Jenifer Smith: Right. I mean, listen. I dream about Michael B. Jordan sometimes when I'm having sex, but that doesn't mean he's tangible to me. But if you're dreaming about the person that you work with-
Erica: The secretary.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, the person that you work with that's a tangible person that you could actually get it from them, then I think it's kind of dangerous territory if you're not communicating with your partner.
Jenifer Smith: And I think that that's also part of communication is if you're fantasizing about different things and you don't feel like you could share that with your partner, there might be something there with that communication.
Jenifer Smith: You don't feel like it's a safe space to actually share that, because I think it's important for couples to be able to share what their desires and fantasies are and explore them if you choose to.
Kenrya: You said earlier that a lot of what you see is that women are having a bit of a more difficult time expressing what it is that they need to be able to live into that best sex life.
Kenrya: I'm wondering, are there ... Can we talk a bit about what are the special considerations that come when you're talking about Black women and Black non-binary folks? What comes into play often that keeps us from being able to really seize that pleasure?
Jenifer Smith: A lot of the times, it comes from ... And I'm going to put my therapist hat on now. It comes a lot from the way that you were brought up.
Jenifer Smith: If you were raised in a family where sex education wasn't something that was an open dialogue and you learned about sex and other various forms that weren't always the safest environment, most women, most Black women are not coming into the relationship open or ready to communicate about it if they never had that space before.
Jenifer Smith: And if they've brought it up before ... And these are different examples that I've heard. If they have brought it up before with a previous partner, they were either shamed about it. They might've been sexually abused, and then that may have been used against them also and the information they would have shared.
Jenifer Smith: And within the girlfriend circles. I have plenty of women ... I teach a blowjob class and I've been teaching it for three years.
Jenifer Smith: And a lot of the Black women said that they would, during their girlfriend nights, would tell their girlfriends about giving their man head or giving them a hand job in the movies or something like that. And they were shamed in their girlfriend circles about doing things like that.
Jenifer Smith: And that stopped them from wanting to communicate with anybody else about it, and even their partner about it, because now it was something shameful.
Jenifer Smith: They were told only white women do that. And that just creates this whole stigma of it's not safe for me to talk about it with anybody.
Kenrya: Yeah. They will never survive in our friend group.
Erica: Girl, I'm like ... I remember we were at Benihana and I was showing a dick pic. Oh my God, we were like ... You know how at Benihana you're at the table with other families?
Erica: I was like, "Look at this. He came in slow motion." They was like, "Erica, girl, put that fucking phone down."
Kenrya: I mean, remember I came downstairs the other day and y'all bitches were stimulating what y'all thought I must've been doing upstairs when I wasn't with y'all. Like ...
Jenifer Smith: The question is: were you doing it?
Kenrya: Yes, I was.
Erica: Yes, you was, you was, you was.
Kenrya: They were correct. They know me well.
Erica: Yeah, we were down here kicking it hard and ... Yeah. And she came downstairs and was like ... I was like, "Yeah, bitch because you would've been down here kicking it with us if you weren't upstairs doing all that nasty shit."
Kenrya: I mean, a time for everything.
Jenifer Smith: Time for everything.
Erica: All the single gals. It was like ... Was it all the single gals? Except for the first, it was all the single gals. So you were fucking on behalf of all.
Jenifer Smith: I need to be in that circle. I'm the single one amongst my friends. And I get a pass because I'm a sex therapist and they just always assume I'm going to talk about some nasty shit, but I'm like, I need to be around other nasty single women that also could talk freely about this stuff.
Kenrya: Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Erica: Come over, kick it. We get it in over here. I think our ... Yeah, we did a Zoom call on Friday night and I pulled out all my toys and I was-
Jenifer Smith: Yes.
Erica: ... showing them different butt plugs-
Jenifer Smith: Yes.
Erica: ... and lubes, and this is my favorite collar. And this is my favorite whip. Someone was like, "Huh?" The other ones were like, "Drop that link."
Kenrya: It takes all kinds, but at the end of the day, we're really big on not yucking anyone's yum, right?
Jenifer Smith: No.
Kenrya: So if it ain't your thing, that's okay. It just ain't your thing.
Jenifer Smith: That's okay. But it's the dialogue, because even if you're not into it, I at least want my friends to be educated about it because I don't know what other conversations they might be having with their other circle of friends or with their partners for that matter.
Jenifer Smith: I want everybody always to be informed about other things because people, adults assume that sex education stops somewhere at school. And if you didn't get it at-
Erica: It never started at school. How about that?
Jenifer Smith: I mean, right. Some people didn't get it at school. I was very fortunate and I had a lot of great sex education very young. And I had it all throughout grade school, middle school and high school. So I was very fortunate, but I know other people weren't and I'm like-
Erica: What state were you in? I don't want to get too-
Jenifer Smith: I was in Pennsylvania.
Jenifer Smith: And so-
Kenrya: That's interesting.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. And so I'm like, now as adults, it is your choice and responsibility to educate yourself about sex and about different products, different lubricants, adult stores, the different kinds of porn.
Jenifer Smith: Everybody has access to that. So if you're not educating yourself about it, I think you're doing a real disservice to yourself and to your partner or future partners about different things that you could just be educated about.
Erica: Yeah, and I'd like to think of sex and pleasure as a form of self care.
Jenifer Smith: Absolutely.
Erica: I think that we spend so much time on spas and candles and even the boring part of self care, like I'm going to iron my clothes the night before, but ... I don't know, cumming is a-
Kenrya: You get free ass orgasm.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that's just ... Cumming is ... We talked to someone and she said, "I masturbate every morning to get my day started."
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: And I'm like, "Fuck yeah."
Jenifer Smith: Some people drink coffee, some people masturbate.
Jenifer Smith: To me, the serotonins come out the same way.
Erica: Exactly. And so this is ... I try to ... I am one of the ... I mean, we talk a lot among my friend group, but I'd make it a point to be kind of the I'm this. I swing hard on this side of the pendulum where it's like, y'all going to know all my details, so that at least you're comfortable sharing a little bit more about yours or you're comfortable asking. So yeah.
Erica: So we know you're a sex therapist. How do you think sex educators and therapists can help people evolve their sex lives? How can they make them change it and grow?
Jenifer Smith: Well, I have found that you have to make it really approachable for women. You have to ... People always ask me how do I do couples therapy? Because they just assume that every man is coming on to me, and I'm like, that's not the case. But like-
Kenrya: I never thought that that would be a thing.
Jenifer Smith: I mean, I say that was not why I got into it. That was not my thought, but it was like ... I always used to say, for couples therapy, you have to be pretty but approachable enough for the woman, but for the man, you have to be attractive and informative and let him know it's a safe space.
Jenifer Smith: And I feel like sex education and sexual health is the same way. We have to make it an inviting space. I think a lot of times on social media, so many people are showing dildos or pocket pussies or bullets or something like that.
Jenifer Smith: And a man is already intimidated by that stuff. So putting it out there doesn't let them know that, oh, I could go and talk to her too and it would be okay.
Jenifer Smith: So I think just showing that it's a safe space for both people or individuals is really important. I mean, as a therapist, I'm always thinking about the therapeutic relationship and that's the biggest part of therapy.
Jenifer Smith: So I'm always looking to see how people can invite people in and make it a safe space. Any of the workshops I used to do, I always let partners know it's okay to bring your partner and create this dialogue or make it a date night.
Jenifer Smith: People like that term make it a date night. It makes it more commercial for them to want to come. And then they didn't have to plan one.
Erica: Yeah, I'm like, niggas going to be niggas.
Jenifer Smith: They like, "Oh, how much is it? Okay, cool. You going to teach her how to do this and give us the toys. Oh, all right."
Erica: Okay, cool. So one question I have, because we just touched on the fact that you're a single gal, I'm a single gal. I'm a sex educator. And I find it difficult when dating, because you get two types of guys.
Erica: One is like the "Oh, you know it all. I ain't going to be able to do shit to impress you," which whatever. Or you get niggas like, "Oh, you a sex educator. So we going to have a threesome on our first date." Do you run into that?
Jenifer Smith: I run into the first one all the time. All the time.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. On my podcast, I talk about it quite a bit. I met guys that I would date for four or five months. They were too scared to have sex.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, they were too scared to have sex or judge me because I taught a blowjob class. One guy said to me, he was like, "I just can't get over thinking about how much dick you might've had to suck to teach that class."
Kenrya: Oh God, go away.
Jenifer Smith: I'm sorry. What?
Kenrya: And guess what? I'm not sucking your dick because that was stupid.
Jenifer Smith: Right. I'm like, as women, we are never thinking about how much pussy you had to eat to get over here.
Jenifer Smith: We're just feeling good to have a ball to practice, you dicks.
Erica: Yeah, thank them chicks. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that-
Jenifer Smith: Or you get the survey after you've had sex. Then they like, "Okay, so here comes the question. Was it good enough? What do you want me to do next time? Did I get the G spot?" I'm like-
Erica: And here's the thing. I appreciate you asking to improve our experience, but don't ask to try to beat ... You're a fucking-
Kenrya: Like beat that high score.
Erica: Yeah, like my pussy is one of them, the arcade machines. And you trying to get your initials on this shit. No, nigga. No.
Jenifer Smith: I don't want you to ask me 15 seconds after I've come. I don't want you to ask me this. We still laying there and I'm trying to catch my breath.
Erica: Let me glow. Let me enjoy the glow.
Jenifer Smith: Ask me tomorrow. Let's have a recap tomorrow, but I don't always like having to debrief all the time. I'm like-
Kenrya: It makes it like work for you, right?
Jenifer Smith: It does. Definitely. I'm like, "Come in here and shut my ass up." That's all.
Erica: Knock the dust out of this pussy and-
Jenifer Smith: Right. No, it's real. That is so real, Erica. I thought getting into this field, I'm like, oh, I might ... I knew people would come at me or whatever, but this shit here of niggas not wanting to talk to you because of what you do or they intimidate or judge you, I'm like, wow, this has turned into a con. I don't know what to do with all of this. It's ridiculous.
Erica: I found guys, some guys are just really skeevy because I try to ... When you meet guys on apps, it's a balance. You want to tell them who you are in full.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: Because I'm also ... I run into niggas and they're super churchy. And I'm like, look, I'm a sex educator. I talk about getting my back blown out once a week on the internet for the world to know it.
Erica: I have friends that are gay, trans, nonbinary, so I need you to understand that you ain't getting just some teacher that's go ... like some basic-
Jenifer Smith: Right, right.
Erica: But I'm telling you that because I need you to understand. I don't need your judgment. This is who I am in full, not I'm telling you that to be like, "Hey, I'm going to shoot hot dogs out my pussy."
Erica: I'm sorry. I just finished reading Humans of New York the other day. That chick, Stephanie Tanqueray was talking about the stripper that shot hot dog or whatever out of her pussy.
Jenifer Smith: That's kind of like in Thailand where they do the darts out of their pussy and can actually bust balloons and shit.
Kenrya: Oh, shit. That's impressive.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I was like wow, we got those kinds of power. Look at that in my own vagina like-
Kenrya: I'm like shit, can we train? Is this something I can learn?
Jenifer Smith: Is there a camp I can attend? A workshop? I need to know. Damn. No, it's real out here. The apps are quite interesting. I have a three date rule that I put in place about a year ago. I don't give guys my social media until we've been out on three dates.
Erica: Oh, yeah. No.
Jenifer Smith: Because yeah, they get like all types of excited and shit, and that would backfire on me because podcasts are very popular and shit.
Jenifer Smith: So people are like, "Yeah, so I heard you on this podcast." And I'm like, "Oh, I was going to tell you when we got to the third date."
Kenrya: And you don't owe anybody anything. So there's that.
Erica: Exactly. Exactly.
Jenifer Smith: No, no you don't.
Kenrya: Man, I ain't your partner. You let them know when you're ready.
Jenifer Smith: Totally, totally.
Kenrya: I want to back up a little bit to something you said earlier.
Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: You were saying that you have to be pretty enough, but not too pretty. You have to be approachable. Why is that?
Jenifer Smith: For women, they respect other women if they're pretty, which is super weird, but that's what I learned maybe the first year I was a therapist when I would watch different couples come into the practice and who they would choose to be their therapist. You know what I mean?
Jenifer Smith: I was like, okay. I feel like I can say this woman's pretty and attractive or whatever. But it was something about how they looked at the pictures of who they chose.
Jenifer Smith: Like, "I like her. She's pretty, but I don't think she'll steal my man. So I think I'll go with her."
Erica: Oh, shit.
Jenifer Smith: But I got that though a couple of times if they didn't look at the website beforehand and I was just assigned the couple or whatever and they came in.
Jenifer Smith: I had this one couple. They were a Haitian couple and came in, and the wife took one look at me and said, "Definitely no."
Jenifer Smith: She was like, "I want somebody else." And I was like, "Well, I am the couple's therapist here. So it's me or nobody." And she was like, "I want to talk to your supervisor," which at that time I felt super intimidated by.
Jenifer Smith: And so my supervisor had to come out and she was like, "Jenifer is the best that we have. I feel a hundred percent confident in her capabilities to help you and your husband."
Jenifer Smith: The husband turns around and said, "I'll talk to her." He walked in the room and sat down. And she was just like, "We'll see."
Erica: Oh, poor thing.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. She was like, "We'll see how this session goes." And we ended up having a great session until the last five minutes. We were talking and they were sitting next to each other and she said something that set him off.
Jenifer Smith: And then he was like, "I'm not talking to you anymore. I only want to talk to Jenifer." And she was like, "Session is over. That's it."
Jenifer Smith: She got up and walked out and he was just sitting there still talking to me. And I'm thinking, how am I supposed to wrap this up now? I don't know.
Jenifer Smith: But people will challenge you a lot when it's a couple because the women want to talk to other women that is attractive, but informative, and also feel like it's a safe space.
Jenifer Smith: And sometimes, if they get a therapist that's too close to their mother's age, they don't want to talk to somebody that's going to talk to them like they're their mom.
Jenifer Smith: They want somebody that's a little closer to their age where they feel it's approachable, and almost up-to-date too on other things.
Jenifer Smith: If they talk about porn or a specific porn, and I know about it. Or if they talk about a strip club that they went to, I will know about it. So those kinds of ways they feel like it's more relatable.
Kenrya: Wow. What's your favorite thing about what you do?
Jenifer Smith: It's never the same topic every day. It's always something different, and I like that. And I like that I can create a space for people to come and talk about their most intimate things and not feel scared to do so.
Jenifer Smith: I've heard some real horror stories from clients of therapists that they went to that made them feel bad about things that they shared or shamed them about certain things. And I'm glad that I can create that space for my clients and they don't have to worry about that with me.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. It's finding a therapist that gets you is just fucking amazing. My therapist, I think I made a rant. I talk in movie lines and movie quotes and shit. And so I reference “Don't be a Menace To South Central While Drinking a Juice in a Hood” or some shit.
Erica: And she got it. And I was just like, you know what? This is why the fuck I'm seeing your Black ass, because I want somebody to get like ...
Jenifer Smith: Yeah.
Kenrya: Also, the draggings.
Erica: Oh, yeah. Y'all, y'all-
Kenrya: She dragged the fuck out of ...
Erica: Dragging the fuck out of ... Yeah. I mean, I just got my hair back. You do not have to come for my edges so fucking quickly. So what do you wish more Black people knew about sex and sexuality?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, Lord. So much.
Kenrya: That was real weary.
Jenifer Smith: So what do I want them to know most? That they are not their past. They ... You are ... I have so many of my Black clients that I've had that had family trauma or generational trauma or sexual trauma. They feel that that is their identity now, their sexual identity.
Jenifer Smith: And I want them to know that healing is something that can just transform your life all across the board and that they don't always have to carry all that weight with them all the time.
Kenrya: Wow. What books would you recommend for folks who want to either explore their own sexuality or get deeper into what you were just talking about right about how to not be defined by their trauma, by their past, as it relates to their sexual selves?
Jenifer Smith: One that I always recommend is “The Body Keeps the Score,” which they have some really good workshops now for that book where I really recommend ... Anybody that's had a sexual trauma, I think it's a good read for them, but it also breaks down all the other ways with your sexuality specifically of how that can affect your sex life in so many other ways, even the most intimate relationship with yourself.
Jenifer Smith: I'm trying to think of any books I've read more recently about generational trauma. Can't come to mind right now. I'm trying to think of some other ones, even about therapy. Yeah. I'm drawing a blank, right? I'm like books, books.
Erica: Girl, it's similar names.
Jenifer Smith: I'm studying for my licensing exam. So the DSM is the only book on my mind right now.
Erica: Well, if you come up with anything else, let us know and we'll add it in the show notes or not. And it's fine, because “Body Keeps the Score” is great.
Kenrya: Yeah, absolutely. I was going to ask what you're reading right now, but you just told us.
Jenifer Smith: The DSM.
Jenifer Smith: The DSM, that's what I'm reading.
Kenrya: Just a little light work.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, it's hard because I was in school when we switched from the DSM-IV to the DSM-V. So I'm rehearsed in both, but the exam is on five. So it's like you have to push out all that information that you knew previous and just focus on what they have now. So it's a little difficult.
Kenrya: Yeah, good luck.
Jenifer Smith: Thank you.
Erica: Okay. So we like to have a little fun before we wrap up. So I want you to finish the sentence.
Jenifer Smith: Oh boy. Okay.
Erica: Okay. The first one, 2020 is ...
Jenifer Smith: Shit show.
Erica: Accurate. Accurate. Okay.
Jenifer Smith: It's like retrograde all fucking year.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Erica: Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Okay. I feel best when ...
Jenifer Smith: I'm naked.
Erica: My partner was ... We were just talking. He was like, "So have you always just walked around naked? Do you do this when I'm not here?" Yes, it is my house.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Yes, I do. I was like, "This is how I prefer to be." Yup, yup. And when my child was gone with my ex, girl, my brother lives with me, but he pretty much stays in his space, which is the basement. He literally knocks on the basement, poor guy, "Put on a shirt."
Jenifer Smith: “Can I come out?”
Erica: Exactly. So yeah, clothes are some bullshit. Okay. My perfect day begins with ...
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, praise and worship.
Erica: Yes. Okay, and last, my pettiest turn off is ...
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, pettiest? I don't know. If he has a broke down car.
Erica: Nothing wrong with it.
Jenifer Smith: That will turn me off quick. I'm like, I don't care if it was a great date. I'll be like, "So it was really to know you, but this is not going to work out for you."
Erica: You in the Sentra. If this ’87 Sentra ain't going ... Okay. Kenrya, I saw you thinking. What's your pettiest turn off?
Kenrya: I don't know. I'm sitting here trying to figure out. Oh, I don't know.
Erica: I have a whole fucking list.
Kenrya: Do you?
Jenifer Smith: Let's see, hear a couple. I want to hear it.
Erica: So one, I'm not going to say publicly, I'll say it after this because we might cut some people off. Another one fucking braided hair, like braids.
Erica: Cornrows. If you're a grown ass nigga with some fucking cornrows, I'm like, "Nigga, come on now."
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: You doing too much. Dirty fingernails of course.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah. That's a big one for you.
Erica: Busted shoes.
Jenifer Smith: Yes. That's a big one for me too.
Erica: And they don't even have to be like the name brands or whatever, just well taken care of.
Jenifer Smith: But if they look like they are so old, like you've had these since college, let it go.
Erica: When the heel run over and stuff-
Jenifer Smith: Yes, yes, yes.
Erica: No, not at all. Nope. Not at all. Because the little things, like if you can't take care of like the little things-
Jenifer Smith: You can't be cleaning a dick.
Erica: You ain't.
Jenifer Smith: You can't possibly. You can't possibly.
Erica: You got to choose a dick. If you can't get the details, you ain't scooping under them balls and cleaning it up under there.
Jenifer Smith: Right, right.
Erica: And I'm nasty. I want my face in everything, but I need to make sure I need to be confident you were cleaning.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: Your crevices.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: They may sound petty, but it actually leads up to something else.
Erica: If you're a grown ass man walking around with cornrows and shit ... I mean, maybe with the little individual braids, I might give you a chance, but if you're a grown ass man walking around with some Allen Iverson, bruh, you make poor decisions. And so-
Jenifer Smith: Yes. Face tattoos. Yes.
Jenifer Smith: Face tattoos for me too.
Erica: Yeah. Okay, I can add that. That can be on my list. I'm not a fan. However, because I'm a bird, I do like a neck tattoo.
Kenrya: You like a neck tattoo.
Erica: I'm such a bird.
Kenrya: Yeah, the face tattoo is just like, so either you're independently wealthy or you just don't give a fuck no more.
Erica: You literally was like, you know what? Fuck it. Fuck this.
Kenrya: And that's fine, but we probably not a good match. And that's okay. I'm sure there's somebody that is there for you.
Jenifer Smith: Okay. Right, right.
Kenrya: It's just not me.
Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: That'll be on my list. That's cool. So thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell the people where they can find you online?
Jenifer Smith: Yes. Thank you both for having me. I appreciate it. I could have talked to y'all all day. I feel like we had some ... We could talk nasty all day.
Kenrya: We can.
Jenifer Smith: But you can find me on Instagram @SexTherapistJen, all one word, or you can listen to my podcast also at Love, Lust and Lies podcast. We're on all podcast platforms or you can follow our IG @LoveLustLiesPodcast.
Kenrya: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And thank you for coming on, and thank you all for listening. That's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. And we will be back soon. Thanks for listening.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions. And follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at tTheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.