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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to sex therapist Jenifer Smith about how improved communication, a good book and some excellent porn can improve your sex life.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today, we're talking to Jenifer Smith, pronouns she and her. Jenifer has been providing relationship and sex advice to couples and individuals for 13 years.
Kenrya: She has a double master's degree in marriage and family therapy and mental health counseling, and is also a sex therapist.
Kenrya: She's currently the co-host of the Love, Lust and Lies podcast, which can be found on all podcast streaming platforms. Thanks so much for joining us today, Jenifer.
Jenifer Smith: Thank you for having me.
Erica: So again, thank you. We appreciate you coming out. When I first met you, I was like, she's got to come on to The Turn On. So I appreciate you making time.
Jenifer Smith: It took like a year in the making.
Erica: I know. Things have been leading up to this.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I like a good climax. That's okay.
Erica: Hey, hey, hey. Tell us a little bit about your background and how it brought you to doing this work.
Jenifer Smith: My background actually started in radio. In college, I used to host a sex talk radio show and the show was already in existence when I got on it. And funny enough, the guy that I hosted the show with back then is the guy I host my podcast with now, 16 years later.
Erica: Oh, wow.
Erica: Full circle.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. So talking about those topics of sex, love, relationships, dating is what really started to drive me and really fueled me to talk to people about relationships.
Jenifer Smith: And so I wrote for a sex advice column for a magazine for four years after graduation. And I was like, yeah, this seems more like a calling than it is a hobby now.
Jenifer Smith: So that's when I decided to become a therapist. But that-
Erica: Was your major in college therapy or anything like that? Or were you like an econ major or some shit?
Jenifer Smith: Communications.
Jenifer Smith: Communications was my major. PR was my concentration. If you talked to me back then, I was going to be a hard-hitting publicist. And then, that's just not what happened.
Kenrya: Oh, same. That was my specialization too.
Jenifer Smith: Yes. It's funny how you use those skills-
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: ... in a career change. So people ask me-
Kenrya: We use them for this show, shit.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, people ask me all the time, "Well, how did you get to doing TV or radio or magazines?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm a communications major, and PR and media is always going to be number one for me."
Jenifer Smith: And so now, being able to use therapy in that same platform is pretty dope to combine my worlds together.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's awesome. What did you want to be when you grew up?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, a publicist and a lawyer.
Kenrya: You're like, just give me all the coins.
Jenifer Smith: Let me talk for a living and I'm set.
Erica: And now you talk about masturbation.
Jenifer Smith: Now, I'm talking about masturbation, the gift that keeps on giving.
Erica: Yes, yes. Okay, so when we asked you to come along, we wanted to talk about living your best sex life. On the podcast, we read a lot of erotica, which most people's fantasies of what their best sex life is. So what does that mean to you? What does the best sex life mean to you?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, that's a really good question. The best sex life to me is one where both partners are equally pleasured all the time.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: And that comes with just even conversation in physical sense of sex or intimacy or foreplay, in all areas that you're just deliciously pleasured with your partner. And that's how I look at it-
Erica: Oh, I like that, delicious.
Jenifer Smith: Because for me ... Yeah, because for me, I need good conversation to even make me feel aroused, to want to be intimate with you.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: So for me, I need it all across the board.
Kenrya: Yeah. On the other side of that coin, what things do you think tend to stand in the way of people having the best sex life of their dreams?
Jenifer Smith: Communication, I would say is number one. Since I've been a therapist, that's probably what I've heard the most is communication. People aren't able to communicate what their needs are.
Jenifer Smith: And a lot of times, people aren't communicating with themselves of what their pleasure points are or what it takes to get them off, or even wanting to have that conversation of what are their real insecurities about their body here about being intimate, which then prevents you from getting close to somebody else. So I would say communication for sure.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Do you see a difference in communication? I'm thinking about stereotypes that people have, right? That men are poor communicators. Do you see a difference in how communication goals in terms of the orientations and the makeup of the partnerships? You know what I mean?
Jenifer Smith: For sure, which is funny that you say that because I feel like men are the better communicators with what they want sexually. Women are the ones that actually lack that communication.
Jenifer Smith: And they usually lack communication because one, they haven't explored their own body. Two, they are afraid to actually communicate what they want because afraid of judgments, or they've opened up to somebody else before and that person shamed them or put them down. And now it feels like it's unsafe to share what you really want.
Erica: You know that's interesting. I was doing a class last night about sex and technology, and so a lot of it was porn. Well, the first part of it was talking a lot about porn.
Erica: And one of the things that she mentioned was that she finds that couples that watch porn together tend to communicate their desires better in relationships, or just people that watch porn are able to better articulate their desires.
Erica: And the study show what ... Most people under-report. But anyway, the studies show that-
Kenrya: Oh, how much porn they watch?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, definitely.
Erica: The studies show that men watch more porn than women. And so I think that goes hand in hand with what you just said about the fact that men are more ... They're able to say, "I want this," because they've seen that happen in porn.
Jenifer Smith: Oh, for sure. I think I agree with that a hundred percent, Erica. I think women definitely under report it because of the judgment and the shame that come ... And it's funny enough, as long as I've been doing this work, most of the shame come from other women. It's not even coming from men.
Erica: Yup, yup.
Kenrya: Listen, that's real. A scroll through fucking Black Twitter will show you that.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. And that's sad because there are porn that you can watch that is, I would say approachable for couples because I don't think all porn-
Jenifer Smith: ... is applicable to everybody's sex life.
Jenifer Smith: But there are some good safe porn that you can go watch as a couple, even if it's your first couple of times watching it, where you can have a dialogue about it.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: And people have to actually take the actual, sometimes the actual intercourse out of it. And just talk about, what is it that you see? What is it that you like out of this? Do you like the way she responds when he does that?
Jenifer Smith: Talking about how you act, what the experience is. And I think that people miss that a lot of the time. They miss what the experience is supposed to be about.
Erica: Yeah. So what things do you think people should consider when they're assessing their current sex life and where they want it to be?
Jenifer Smith: Hmm, that's a good question. Are you happy? Are you satisfied? Do you ever think about stepping outside of the relationship to meet your sexual needs?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: Those would be a few, I think of voice assess.
Kenrya: At what point do you need to be concerned? Okay. So we all ... At least, I got a bit of imagination. So we've heard from lots of folks who have their fantasies and have their what if people and have all these things that go on in their head.
Kenrya: How do you know when you cross the line between just fantasizing about something that's a little different and maybe being about to cross over that line?
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, I've heard it so many different ways too. I mean, because some people, that's all they think about is somebody else while they're having sex with their current partner. And I think that that gets to be a very dangerous territory if it's an actual ... Okay, like-
Kenrya: Like a real person that's walking around on earth.
Jenifer Smith: Right. I mean, listen. I dream about Michael B. Jordan sometimes when I'm having sex, but that doesn't mean he's tangible to me. But if you're dreaming about the person that you work with-
Erica: The secretary.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, the person that you work with that's a tangible person that you could actually get it from them, then I think it's kind of dangerous territory if you're not communicating with your partner.
Jenifer Smith: And I think that that's also part of communication is if you're fantasizing about different things and you don't feel like you could share that with your partner, there might be something there with that communication.
Jenifer Smith: You don't feel like it's a safe space to actually share that, because I think it's important for couples to be able to share what their desires and fantasies are and explore them if you choose to.
Kenrya: You said earlier that a lot of what you see is that women are having a bit of a more difficult time expressing what it is that they need to be able to live into that best sex life.
Kenrya: I'm wondering, are there ... Can we talk a bit about what are the special considerations that come when you're talking about Black women and Black non-binary folks? What comes into play often that keeps us from being able to really seize that pleasure?
Jenifer Smith: A lot of the times, it comes from ... And I'm going to put my therapist hat on now. It comes a lot from the way that you were brought up.
Jenifer Smith: If you were raised in a family where sex education wasn't something that was an open dialogue and you learned about sex and other various forms that weren't always the safest environment, most women, most Black women are not coming into the relationship open or ready to communicate about it if they never had that space before.
Jenifer Smith: And if they've brought it up before ... And these are different examples that I've heard. If they have brought it up before with a previous partner, they were either shamed about it. They might've been sexually abused, and then that may have been used against them also and the information they would have shared.
Jenifer Smith: And within the girlfriend circles. I have plenty of women ... I teach a blowjob class and I've been teaching it for three years.
Jenifer Smith: And a lot of the Black women said that they would, during their girlfriend nights, would tell their girlfriends about giving their man head or giving them a hand job in the movies or something like that. And they were shamed in their girlfriend circles about doing things like that.
Jenifer Smith: And that stopped them from wanting to communicate with anybody else about it, and even their partner about it, because now it was something shameful.
Jenifer Smith: They were told only white women do that. And that just creates this whole stigma of it's not safe for me to talk about it with anybody.
Kenrya: Yeah. They will never survive in our friend group.
Erica: Girl, I'm like ... I remember we were at Benihana and I was showing a dick pic. Oh my God, we were like ... You know how at Benihana you're at the table with other families?
Erica: I was like, "Look at this. He came in slow motion." They was like, "Erica, girl, put that fucking phone down."
Kenrya: I mean, remember I came downstairs the other day and y'all bitches were stimulating what y'all thought I must've been doing upstairs when I wasn't with y'all. Like ...
Jenifer Smith: The question is: were you doing it?
Kenrya: Yes, I was.
Erica: Yes, you was, you was, you was.
Kenrya: They were correct. They know me well.
Erica: Yeah, we were down here kicking it hard and ... Yeah. And she came downstairs and was like ... I was like, "Yeah, bitch because you would've been down here kicking it with us if you weren't upstairs doing all that nasty shit."
Kenrya: I mean, a time for everything.
Jenifer Smith: Time for everything.
Erica: All the single gals. It was like ... Was it all the single gals? Except for the first, it was all the single gals. So you were fucking on behalf of all.
Jenifer Smith: I need to be in that circle. I'm the single one amongst my friends. And I get a pass because I'm a sex therapist and they just always assume I'm going to talk about some nasty shit, but I'm like, I need to be around other nasty single women that also could talk freely about this stuff.
Kenrya: Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Erica: Come over, kick it. We get it in over here. I think our ... Yeah, we did a Zoom call on Friday night and I pulled out all my toys and I was-
Jenifer Smith: Yes.
Erica: ... showing them different butt plugs-
Jenifer Smith: Yes.
Erica: ... and lubes, and this is my favorite collar. And this is my favorite whip. Someone was like, "Huh?" The other ones were like, "Drop that link."
Kenrya: It takes all kinds, but at the end of the day, we're really big on not yucking anyone's yum, right?
Jenifer Smith: No.
Kenrya: So if it ain't your thing, that's okay. It just ain't your thing.
Jenifer Smith: That's okay. But it's the dialogue, because even if you're not into it, I at least want my friends to be educated about it because I don't know what other conversations they might be having with their other circle of friends or with their partners for that matter.
Jenifer Smith: I want everybody always to be informed about other things because people, adults assume that sex education stops somewhere at school. And if you didn't get it at-
Erica: It never started at school. How about that?
Jenifer Smith: I mean, right. Some people didn't get it at school. I was very fortunate and I had a lot of great sex education very young. And I had it all throughout grade school, middle school and high school. So I was very fortunate, but I know other people weren't and I'm like-
Erica: What state were you in? I don't want to get too-
Jenifer Smith: I was in Pennsylvania.
Jenifer Smith: And so-
Kenrya: That's interesting.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. And so I'm like, now as adults, it is your choice and responsibility to educate yourself about sex and about different products, different lubricants, adult stores, the different kinds of porn.
Jenifer Smith: Everybody has access to that. So if you're not educating yourself about it, I think you're doing a real disservice to yourself and to your partner or future partners about different things that you could just be educated about.
Erica: Yeah, and I'd like to think of sex and pleasure as a form of self care.
Jenifer Smith: Absolutely.
Erica: I think that we spend so much time on spas and candles and even the boring part of self care, like I'm going to iron my clothes the night before, but ... I don't know, cumming is a-
Kenrya: You get free ass orgasm.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that's just ... Cumming is ... We talked to someone and she said, "I masturbate every morning to get my day started."
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: And I'm like, "Fuck yeah."
Jenifer Smith: Some people drink coffee, some people masturbate.
Jenifer Smith: To me, the serotonins come out the same way.
Erica: Exactly. And so this is ... I try to ... I am one of the ... I mean, we talk a lot among my friend group, but I'd make it a point to be kind of the I'm this. I swing hard on this side of the pendulum where it's like, y'all going to know all my details, so that at least you're comfortable sharing a little bit more about yours or you're comfortable asking. So yeah.
Erica: So we know you're a sex therapist. How do you think sex educators and therapists can help people evolve their sex lives? How can they make them change it and grow?
Jenifer Smith: Well, I have found that you have to make it really approachable for women. You have to ... People always ask me how do I do couples therapy? Because they just assume that every man is coming on to me, and I'm like, that's not the case. But like-
Kenrya: I never thought that that would be a thing.
Jenifer Smith: I mean, I say that was not why I got into it. That was not my thought, but it was like ... I always used to say, for couples therapy, you have to be pretty but approachable enough for the woman, but for the man, you have to be attractive and informative and let him know it's a safe space.
Jenifer Smith: And I feel like sex education and sexual health is the same way. We have to make it an inviting space. I think a lot of times on social media, so many people are showing dildos or pocket pussies or bullets or something like that.
Jenifer Smith: And a man is already intimidated by that stuff. So putting it out there doesn't let them know that, oh, I could go and talk to her too and it would be okay.
Jenifer Smith: So I think just showing that it's a safe space for both people or individuals is really important. I mean, as a therapist, I'm always thinking about the therapeutic relationship and that's the biggest part of therapy.
Jenifer Smith: So I'm always looking to see how people can invite people in and make it a safe space. Any of the workshops I used to do, I always let partners know it's okay to bring your partner and create this dialogue or make it a date night.
Jenifer Smith: People like that term make it a date night. It makes it more commercial for them to want to come. And then they didn't have to plan one.
Erica: Yeah, I'm like, niggas going to be niggas.
Jenifer Smith: They like, "Oh, how much is it? Okay, cool. You going to teach her how to do this and give us the toys. Oh, all right."
Erica: Okay, cool. So one question I have, because we just touched on the fact that you're a single gal, I'm a single gal. I'm a sex educator. And I find it difficult when dating, because you get two types of guys.
Erica: One is like the "Oh, you know it all. I ain't going to be able to do shit to impress you," which whatever. Or you get niggas like, "Oh, you a sex educator. So we going to have a threesome on our first date." Do you run into that?
Jenifer Smith: I run into the first one all the time. All the time.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. On my podcast, I talk about it quite a bit. I met guys that I would date for four or five months. They were too scared to have sex.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, they were too scared to have sex or judge me because I taught a blowjob class. One guy said to me, he was like, "I just can't get over thinking about how much dick you might've had to suck to teach that class."
Kenrya: Oh God, go away.
Jenifer Smith: I'm sorry. What?
Kenrya: And guess what? I'm not sucking your dick because that was stupid.
Jenifer Smith: Right. I'm like, as women, we are never thinking about how much pussy you had to eat to get over here.
Jenifer Smith: We're just feeling good to have a ball to practice, you dicks.
Erica: Yeah, thank them chicks. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that-
Jenifer Smith: Or you get the survey after you've had sex. Then they like, "Okay, so here comes the question. Was it good enough? What do you want me to do next time? Did I get the G spot?" I'm like-
Erica: And here's the thing. I appreciate you asking to improve our experience, but don't ask to try to beat ... You're a fucking-
Kenrya: Like beat that high score.
Erica: Yeah, like my pussy is one of them, the arcade machines. And you trying to get your initials on this shit. No, nigga. No.
Jenifer Smith: I don't want you to ask me 15 seconds after I've come. I don't want you to ask me this. We still laying there and I'm trying to catch my breath.
Erica: Let me glow. Let me enjoy the glow.
Jenifer Smith: Ask me tomorrow. Let's have a recap tomorrow, but I don't always like having to debrief all the time. I'm like-
Kenrya: It makes it like work for you, right?
Jenifer Smith: It does. Definitely. I'm like, "Come in here and shut my ass up." That's all.
Erica: Knock the dust out of this pussy and-
Jenifer Smith: Right. No, it's real. That is so real, Erica. I thought getting into this field, I'm like, oh, I might ... I knew people would come at me or whatever, but this shit here of niggas not wanting to talk to you because of what you do or they intimidate or judge you, I'm like, wow, this has turned into a con. I don't know what to do with all of this. It's ridiculous.
Erica: I found guys, some guys are just really skeevy because I try to ... When you meet guys on apps, it's a balance. You want to tell them who you are in full.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: Because I'm also ... I run into niggas and they're super churchy. And I'm like, look, I'm a sex educator. I talk about getting my back blown out once a week on the internet for the world to know it.
Erica: I have friends that are gay, trans, nonbinary, so I need you to understand that you ain't getting just some teacher that's go ... like some basic-
Jenifer Smith: Right, right.
Erica: But I'm telling you that because I need you to understand. I don't need your judgment. This is who I am in full, not I'm telling you that to be like, "Hey, I'm going to shoot hot dogs out my pussy."
Erica: I'm sorry. I just finished reading Humans of New York the other day. That chick, Stephanie Tanqueray was talking about the stripper that shot hot dog or whatever out of her pussy.
Jenifer Smith: That's kind of like in Thailand where they do the darts out of their pussy and can actually bust balloons and shit.
Kenrya: Oh, shit. That's impressive.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I was like wow, we got those kinds of power. Look at that in my own vagina like-
Kenrya: I'm like shit, can we train? Is this something I can learn?
Jenifer Smith: Is there a camp I can attend? A workshop? I need to know. Damn. No, it's real out here. The apps are quite interesting. I have a three date rule that I put in place about a year ago. I don't give guys my social media until we've been out on three dates.
Erica: Oh, yeah. No.
Jenifer Smith: Because yeah, they get like all types of excited and shit, and that would backfire on me because podcasts are very popular and shit.
Jenifer Smith: So people are like, "Yeah, so I heard you on this podcast." And I'm like, "Oh, I was going to tell you when we got to the third date."
Kenrya: And you don't owe anybody anything. So there's that.
Erica: Exactly. Exactly.
Jenifer Smith: No, no you don't.
Kenrya: Man, I ain't your partner. You let them know when you're ready.
Jenifer Smith: Totally, totally.
Kenrya: I want to back up a little bit to something you said earlier.
Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: You were saying that you have to be pretty enough, but not too pretty. You have to be approachable. Why is that?
Jenifer Smith: For women, they respect other women if they're pretty, which is super weird, but that's what I learned maybe the first year I was a therapist when I would watch different couples come into the practice and who they would choose to be their therapist. You know what I mean?
Jenifer Smith: I was like, okay. I feel like I can say this woman's pretty and attractive or whatever. But it was something about how they looked at the pictures of who they chose.
Jenifer Smith: Like, "I like her. She's pretty, but I don't think she'll steal my man. So I think I'll go with her."
Erica: Oh, shit.
Jenifer Smith: But I got that though a couple of times if they didn't look at the website beforehand and I was just assigned the couple or whatever and they came in.
Jenifer Smith: I had this one couple. They were a Haitian couple and came in, and the wife took one look at me and said, "Definitely no."
Jenifer Smith: She was like, "I want somebody else." And I was like, "Well, I am the couple's therapist here. So it's me or nobody." And she was like, "I want to talk to your supervisor," which at that time I felt super intimidated by.
Jenifer Smith: And so my supervisor had to come out and she was like, "Jenifer is the best that we have. I feel a hundred percent confident in her capabilities to help you and your husband."
Jenifer Smith: The husband turns around and said, "I'll talk to her." He walked in the room and sat down. And she was just like, "We'll see."
Erica: Oh, poor thing.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. She was like, "We'll see how this session goes." And we ended up having a great session until the last five minutes. We were talking and they were sitting next to each other and she said something that set him off.
Jenifer Smith: And then he was like, "I'm not talking to you anymore. I only want to talk to Jenifer." And she was like, "Session is over. That's it."
Jenifer Smith: She got up and walked out and he was just sitting there still talking to me. And I'm thinking, how am I supposed to wrap this up now? I don't know.
Jenifer Smith: But people will challenge you a lot when it's a couple because the women want to talk to other women that is attractive, but informative, and also feel like it's a safe space.
Jenifer Smith: And sometimes, if they get a therapist that's too close to their mother's age, they don't want to talk to somebody that's going to talk to them like they're their mom.
Jenifer Smith: They want somebody that's a little closer to their age where they feel it's approachable, and almost up-to-date too on other things.
Jenifer Smith: If they talk about porn or a specific porn, and I know about it. Or if they talk about a strip club that they went to, I will know about it. So those kinds of ways they feel like it's more relatable.
Kenrya: Wow. What's your favorite thing about what you do?
Jenifer Smith: It's never the same topic every day. It's always something different, and I like that. And I like that I can create a space for people to come and talk about their most intimate things and not feel scared to do so.
Jenifer Smith: I've heard some real horror stories from clients of therapists that they went to that made them feel bad about things that they shared or shamed them about certain things. And I'm glad that I can create that space for my clients and they don't have to worry about that with me.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. It's finding a therapist that gets you is just fucking amazing. My therapist, I think I made a rant. I talk in movie lines and movie quotes and shit. And so I reference “Don't be a Menace To South Central While Drinking a Juice in a Hood” or some shit.
Erica: And she got it. And I was just like, you know what? This is why the fuck I'm seeing your Black ass, because I want somebody to get like ...
Jenifer Smith: Yeah.
Kenrya: Also, the draggings.
Erica: Oh, yeah. Y'all, y'all-
Kenrya: She dragged the fuck out of ...
Erica: Dragging the fuck out of ... Yeah. I mean, I just got my hair back. You do not have to come for my edges so fucking quickly. So what do you wish more Black people knew about sex and sexuality?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, Lord. So much.
Kenrya: That was real weary.
Jenifer Smith: So what do I want them to know most? That they are not their past. They ... You are ... I have so many of my Black clients that I've had that had family trauma or generational trauma or sexual trauma. They feel that that is their identity now, their sexual identity.
Jenifer Smith: And I want them to know that healing is something that can just transform your life all across the board and that they don't always have to carry all that weight with them all the time.
Kenrya: Wow. What books would you recommend for folks who want to either explore their own sexuality or get deeper into what you were just talking about right about how to not be defined by their trauma, by their past, as it relates to their sexual selves?
Jenifer Smith: One that I always recommend is “The Body Keeps the Score,” which they have some really good workshops now for that book where I really recommend ... Anybody that's had a sexual trauma, I think it's a good read for them, but it also breaks down all the other ways with your sexuality specifically of how that can affect your sex life in so many other ways, even the most intimate relationship with yourself.
Jenifer Smith: I'm trying to think of any books I've read more recently about generational trauma. Can't come to mind right now. I'm trying to think of some other ones, even about therapy. Yeah. I'm drawing a blank, right? I'm like books, books.
Erica: Girl, it's similar names.
Jenifer Smith: I'm studying for my licensing exam. So the DSM is the only book on my mind right now.
Erica: Well, if you come up with anything else, let us know and we'll add it in the show notes or not. And it's fine, because “Body Keeps the Score” is great.
Kenrya: Yeah, absolutely. I was going to ask what you're reading right now, but you just told us.
Jenifer Smith: The DSM.
Jenifer Smith: The DSM, that's what I'm reading.
Kenrya: Just a little light work.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, it's hard because I was in school when we switched from the DSM-IV to the DSM-V. So I'm rehearsed in both, but the exam is on five. So it's like you have to push out all that information that you knew previous and just focus on what they have now. So it's a little difficult.
Kenrya: Yeah, good luck.
Jenifer Smith: Thank you.
Erica: Okay. So we like to have a little fun before we wrap up. So I want you to finish the sentence.
Jenifer Smith: Oh boy. Okay.
Erica: Okay. The first one, 2020 is ...
Jenifer Smith: Shit show.
Erica: Accurate. Accurate. Okay.
Jenifer Smith: It's like retrograde all fucking year.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Erica: Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Okay. I feel best when ...
Jenifer Smith: I'm naked.
Erica: My partner was ... We were just talking. He was like, "So have you always just walked around naked? Do you do this when I'm not here?" Yes, it is my house.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Yes, I do. I was like, "This is how I prefer to be." Yup, yup. And when my child was gone with my ex, girl, my brother lives with me, but he pretty much stays in his space, which is the basement. He literally knocks on the basement, poor guy, "Put on a shirt."
Jenifer Smith: “Can I come out?”
Erica: Exactly. So yeah, clothes are some bullshit. Okay. My perfect day begins with ...
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, praise and worship.
Erica: Yes. Okay, and last, my pettiest turn off is ...
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, pettiest? I don't know. If he has a broke down car.
Erica: Nothing wrong with it.
Jenifer Smith: That will turn me off quick. I'm like, I don't care if it was a great date. I'll be like, "So it was really to know you, but this is not going to work out for you."
Erica: You in the Sentra. If this ’87 Sentra ain't going ... Okay. Kenrya, I saw you thinking. What's your pettiest turn off?
Kenrya: I don't know. I'm sitting here trying to figure out. Oh, I don't know.
Erica: I have a whole fucking list.
Kenrya: Do you?
Jenifer Smith: Let's see, hear a couple. I want to hear it.
Erica: So one, I'm not going to say publicly, I'll say it after this because we might cut some people off. Another one fucking braided hair, like braids.
Erica: Cornrows. If you're a grown ass nigga with some fucking cornrows, I'm like, "Nigga, come on now."
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: You doing too much. Dirty fingernails of course.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah. That's a big one for you.
Erica: Busted shoes.
Jenifer Smith: Yes. That's a big one for me too.
Erica: And they don't even have to be like the name brands or whatever, just well taken care of.
Jenifer Smith: But if they look like they are so old, like you've had these since college, let it go.
Erica: When the heel run over and stuff-
Jenifer Smith: Yes, yes, yes.
Erica: No, not at all. Nope. Not at all. Because the little things, like if you can't take care of like the little things-
Jenifer Smith: You can't be cleaning a dick.
Erica: You ain't.
Jenifer Smith: You can't possibly. You can't possibly.
Erica: You got to choose a dick. If you can't get the details, you ain't scooping under them balls and cleaning it up under there.
Jenifer Smith: Right, right.
Erica: And I'm nasty. I want my face in everything, but I need to make sure I need to be confident you were cleaning.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: Your crevices.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: They may sound petty, but it actually leads up to something else.
Erica: If you're a grown ass man walking around with cornrows and shit ... I mean, maybe with the little individual braids, I might give you a chance, but if you're a grown ass man walking around with some Allen Iverson, bruh, you make poor decisions. And so-
Jenifer Smith: Yes. Face tattoos. Yes.
Jenifer Smith: Face tattoos for me too.
Erica: Yeah. Okay, I can add that. That can be on my list. I'm not a fan. However, because I'm a bird, I do like a neck tattoo.
Kenrya: You like a neck tattoo.
Erica: I'm such a bird.
Kenrya: Yeah, the face tattoo is just like, so either you're independently wealthy or you just don't give a fuck no more.
Erica: You literally was like, you know what? Fuck it. Fuck this.
Kenrya: And that's fine, but we probably not a good match. And that's okay. I'm sure there's somebody that is there for you.
Jenifer Smith: Okay. Right, right.
Kenrya: It's just not me.
Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: That'll be on my list. That's cool. So thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell the people where they can find you online?
Jenifer Smith: Yes. Thank you both for having me. I appreciate it. I could have talked to y'all all day. I feel like we had some ... We could talk nasty all day.
Kenrya: We can.
Jenifer Smith: But you can find me on Instagram @SexTherapistJen, all one word, or you can listen to my podcast also at Love, Lust and Lies podcast. We're on all podcast platforms or you can follow our IG @LoveLustLiesPodcast.
Kenrya: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And thank you for coming on, and thank you all for listening. That's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. And we will be back soon. Thanks for listening.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions. And follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at tTheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to Jodie Slaughter about celebrity crushes, writing embarrassing fanfic, Affrilachians and finding our way back when anxiety takes us down.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today we're talking to Jodie Slaughter, pronoun she and her. Jodie is a 20-something romance author who spends most of her days hunched over a computer for her day job and her nights hunched over a different computer for her novels. While her back is definitely suffering, she wouldn't have it any other way. She loves love so she writes romance novels full of heart, passion and heat. When she isn't putting steamy scenes or declarations of devotion on the page, she can normally be found being generally hilarious on Twitter, dreaming about brisket or watching way too much television. Y’all are fools. Hi, Jodie. Thank you for joining us today!
Jodie Slaughter: Hi.
Kenrya: What y’all can't see is that—listeners, what y'all can't see is that E has decided that she wants to try to fuck me up on the intros.
Jodie Slaughter: You held out for so long, though.
Kenrya: I did.
Jodie Slaughter: You held out for so long.
Kenrya: I did. I did. I'm proud of myself. I'm going to pat myself on the back there.
Erica: You always fuck up the two hos.
Kenrya: I'm patting myself.
Erica: She's just-
Kenrya: Because she was trying so hard to throw me off my square. Whatever. Terrible.
Erica: Anyway. So-
Kenrya: Terrible, whatever. Thank you for coming on with us today.
Jodie Slaughter: Thank you for having me.
Erica: Jodie, thank you so much for joining us. I fucking loved your book. This was a book that Kenrya... We both pick books and so this was a Kenrya pick, and sometimes her picks be... They're good, but it'd be like, "This ain't my shit."
Jodie Slaughter: That's shady, but okay.
Erica: This was my shit.
Kenrya: It is so shady. It's so so shady.
Erica: It's not shady. I'm just saying. You like wizards and demons and people with little horns coming out of her head and I be like...
Kenrya: I like everything.
Erica: She's a fantasy gal.
Jodie Slaughter: Is it monster-focused? I understand.
Kenrya: I like genre! Yeah, I'll do it. I like regular... I like more straight stuff too, but I do like to bring in some good genre shit.
Erica: You do!
Kenrya: It keeps it interesting.
Erica: And when you pick it, I'm always like, "I didn't think..." I say this often, "I didn't think I'd like it, but I really fucking loved it."
Erica: This was one of those books that... I always tell my son, "Readers are leaders." I'm not a reader, and I host a literary podcast. But, anyway, I was drawn to it constantly like, "What's going on? What's about to happen?" So, bitch, kudos.
Jodie Slaughter: Thank you so much!
Erica: Thank you.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm so glad y’all liked it!
Kenrya: Yes, loved it.
Erica: Okay. So now that I'm done, all that...
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, I'm sucking it in. I'm sucking it in.
Erica: We're going to love on you.
Kenrya: Yes, take it all. That's what we do. If we don't do shit else but talk about therapy and dicks, we also love our people.
Erica: Therapy, dicks and we worship Black women.
Jodie Slaughter: Two of my favorite things! Three of my favorite things in the world! [crosstalk 00:03:04]
Erica: Those are my favorite things. When a dick's big, and my therapist is Black, and I'm reading books… (singing).
Jodie Slaughter: We need a Spotify link for that.
Erica: Some of my favorite things. Then I don't feel so bad. (Singing.)
Jodie Slaughter: So bad. Bam, that's absolutely it, that's it.
Kenrya: Yeah, you just bastardized one of my favorite musicals. We watch it on Thanksgiving every year, but we cut it off before the Nazis come, so my daughter doesn't know that that part happens. She thinks that they get married and then the movie's over. It's going to stay that way for quite some time.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, you know what I mean?
Erica: She about to be fucked up. She's going to be like 15 years old, like "What, mama!"
Kenrya: It's long as fuck, so by the time we get to the wedding, I'm ready to move on to “The Wiz.” We start there and then we do “The Wiz”, and then we wrap up.
Jodie Slaughter: “The Wiz” is scary!
Kenrya: So we don't do the movie, we do... Remember when NBC did “The Wiz Live!”?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: It's so good.
Jodie Slaughter: It is.
Kenrya: So we switch, we move on to “The Wiz” and it's a good way to end the night. Yo, her fucking voice. Word to Amber. Right?
Jodie Slaughter: Love of my life, Amber Riley, is in that. Love of my life.
Erica: Her voice is like-
Jodie Slaughter: She is just an... Let me not because I could talk about that woman, everything about her. I'm just like Heart Eyes McGee.
Kenrya: Yeas, the best part of “Glee.” I love musicals, yes.
Jodie Slaughter: The only part worse was... Anyway.
Kenrya: I'm a musical freak. So yeah, like “Glee” was my shit, but I can't go back like because Lea Michele.
Jodie Slaughter: No you can't. And that cast is cursed, fucking cursed. I don't know what kind of seance Ryan Murphy was doing, what kind of deals? It's real dark.
Kenrya: There's so any of them.
Jodie Slaughter: And it's devastating. And I know, I get it. You can clap.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. But so I do sometimes. I'll just pull up like YouTube clips of her songs, like “Smash Your Windows.” Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: Her “Disco Inferno” is like one of my favorites. I live it. Yes.
Kenrya: She just... I was listening to... Okay. Anyway. Sorry.
Erica: We've already digressed.
Jodie Slaughter: Amber Riley, I love you. Call me. We could get together. I can really open you up, like new experiences, new things.
Erica: Oh my God. Yes, I love it. I love it. Okay. Well, other than stanning for Amber Riley, what did little Jodie want to do when she grew up?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh Lord. The first thing I can remember, I wanted to be a doctor because my correlation was that I really actually enjoyed going to a doctor when I was a kid a lot. Something about it was very comforting for me. I was a chubby kid. As I got older, and I stayed chubby, that became less comforting.
Kenrya: Yeah, because they're fucking assholes about weight especially with Black women.
Jodie Slaughter: Absolutely. And then I also realized that I did not focus school. I wasn't about to-
Erica: It's like I was the getting talking about.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, if I could just wear the stethoscope and not going to be like, "Oh" then I would maybe.
Erica: We can play operation on Thursdays.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, absolutely. But, I think I was probably about 12 when I realized that wasn't going to be an option for me. And after that, to be honest, I tried my hardest not to think about it because I was just like, "I don't know."
Erica: Oh, that's a good strategy.
Jodie Slaughter: [crosstalk 00:06:35] Yeah, I was just like, "Don't know."
Kenrya: Is it?
Erica: For me it would be because I think I spent so much time obsessing about like, "I don't know what I'm going to be when I grow up. I don't know what I want to do." And so I think I would have just let the world lead me.
Jodie Slaughter: Well, I kind of did. I mean, for a while... I say this and people are always like, "No, don't say that." But, I'm like, I'm not good at things. I can't sing. I'm relatively smart, and I was a pretty good student, but I'm not genius level. I don't particularly enjoy school. I can't play an instrument. I tried to play the clarinet for a little while, and the literal music teacher was like, "Girl, no." But, I've always had this incredible imagination, and I've always been very good at writing.
Erica: I was about to say bitch. I was about to comment in the stop. You doing good.
Jodie Slaughter: That's always been sort of the only thing. But, when I was young, I didn't know anybody who was a writer. I have a family full of all kinds of... We got a million hairdressers, a doctor, a lawyer, woman who works at old folks’ home. From the perspective of a young person, every career, I knew somebody. I didn't know anybody who was like, "I'm a writer and I can feed my family off of this and not whatever." I also I realized that that was maybe fiction. So when I was an older teenager, I was like, "Okay, maybe I'll go into like journalism." And that's kind of what I did for a while, more in the realm of content creation, stuff like that. That's a long drawn out answer to say like, [crosstalk 00:08:33] "I don't know."
Erica: I don't fucking know.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, pretty much.
Erica: You're on mute.
Kenrya: I am. Sorry. I had a whole last conversation with myself. So what I said was you're right. It's interesting because being a writer is not a thing that's held up as a viable career choice like any more than any other type of artists, right?
Jodie Slaughter: Not at all.
Kenrya: It's not. That's what I do for a living. I am a writer. That's all I do. And this podcast. Yes. I do this podcast too, but whatever.
Erica: We do that for a living.
Jodie Slaughter: Y’all live.
Kenrya: Do we?
Erica: But we do it. The “for a living” part is silent.
Jodie Slaughter: Soon come, soon come.
Kenrya: Exactly. But, it wasn't something that I ever saw. And in fact, when I was younger, I wanted to be a PR person because I figured I could make money at that. So that's what I did for a while because it was presented to me as a viable career where I could get into a job somewhere and make a living and not be living off the back of my creativity because nobody told me that that was the thing that I could do.
Jodie Slaughter: That's absolutely it. I went into for a long time making pennies at content farms, that type of thing.
Kenrya: $30 for a fucking thousand-word articles and shit. Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: And having to do work like 12 hours a day every day so that I can pay my bills, like a grown person. And I was like, "I guess I'm kind of living the dream." You know what I mean? In some ways, yeah I don't, but this is not... I knew that it wasn't the type of writing I wanted to be doing. And then I had gotten this actual real journalism job. I got laid off from that because that's how digital media works.
Kenrya: It's volatile.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Well, I'm 26 now. So when this happened, I was like 24. And I was like, "Okay, well now it's time to like work. I need something that is going to be secure." Because one of my biggest fears was like not having money to pay. I didn't want to be on the street. I didn't want to have to count pennies in my hand every time I went to the grocery store. You know how when you are... Varying degrees of growing up in terms of money, was super fluctuating. There would be times, and it would be... I hate to say that it was embarrassing, but when you're at the grocery store with your mom, and she's like, "Okay, we're going [crosstalk 00:11:22] to put on the aisle first. Yes. We're going to put this on the conveyor belt first."
Kenrya: Yeah. Put some shit back. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Prioritize.
Jodie Slaughter: And then she would be like, "Tell me when it gets to this, and we'll stop. And that's it." It was so stressful. I didn't want to have that be my life. So the only thing I was focused on was like, "All right, I need to like whatever." I knew, I liked English. I was like, "I'll go back to school. I'll get a master's degree. I'll teach. Fine." That's not the way you should go about being a teacher.
Kenrya: So much of growing up in a scarcity situation, which I to relate to, is that when you become an adult, you make a lot of decisions because of scarcity.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, absolutely.
Kenrya: You worry that the opportunities, that the money that they will vanish. That they will not be there when you need them. So you grasp onto the things that come your way because you don't want to fucking drown because you didn't grab onto the fucking lifeboat.
Jodie Slaughter: That's absolutely it. You stay places that are awful for you. It's bad. I grew up, like I said, it was varying degrees. A large part of my childhood, I did not worry about money actually because of my grandparents. My mother's parents, were kind of like-
Erica: It was like I don't need nobody saying... Right.
Jodie Slaughter: My mother's parents were more upperish middle-class. My grandmother was a hairdresser, and she was pretty successful. My grandfather was like one of the first real Black engineers at IBM. They did well. We were with them for a lot of my childhood. But, when I was in my mid-teens, my grandmother got sick. She was a hairdresser, she didn't have any insurance. My grandfather had already retired, so he didn't really either. That ate up a lot of that money. That was like the first time I experienced like, "No, you can't go to the movies because we literally don't have $10 for you." And then post that a little bit is when we struggled a little more. So it's varying degrees but...
Erica: You still remember it.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, I still remember it. And I definitely made... At that point, once I got laid from... it was my first salaried position. I was making like $45,000 a year.
Erica: But still...
Jodie Slaughter: I'm in Louisville, Kentucky, right.
Kenrya: Oh, listen, bitch.
Erica: Yeah, you was doing good.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, I was doing great. And it was terrifying to realize how shaky that all is. And I was like, "What's the most secure thing I can think of that I know I can do. I like English, I'll teach English." You never hear about teachers getting laid off, which is bullshit. But, you know. And that's when I was like, "I'll do that." So I got another job in the like digital media field. And I was like, "I'll go back to school." I am so far away from the question you initially asked me.
Erica: No. This is what we like. Keep at it.
Kenrya: An organic conversation.
Jodie Slaughter: Because this kind of gets into when I...
Erica: Keep going.
Kenrya: Yeah, you good.
Jodie Slaughter: At that "point, when I had gotten this new job, I was like, "I'm going to..." I was not feeling great. So I was like, "I'm going to lean into my creative endeavors a bit more." And it was through that when I was like, "Maybe I can try to put my focus on instead of like moving in fear, I can try to go out on hope and see what happens." I mean, be smart about it. I still worked a day job, but... So yes.
Erica: But, no. I think it's so important that you shared that because I feel like that's what keeps a lot of us Black girls from pursuing that. We don't see it. We don't know that you can have a job. We're afraid, and it really is terrifying to take that step out one hope to do it. It's funny you mentioned that because I was in my basement. And I hoard cleaning products.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: You ain't got to be so quick about it.
Jodie Slaughter: No, I've been in the apartment.
Jodie Slaughter: It sent me to the netherworld.
Kenrya: To be clear, I've benefited from her hoarding cleaning products because every time she finds cleaning wipes, she brings me one.
Erica: And I might have like a large number in my basement right now. So
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, don't tell me where you live, sis, because I'm-
Erica: That's why I'm not giving numbers because I don't need nobody coming after us. But, it's one of those things where I remember when I don't have it. So when I do, I buy it for all. I watch hoarders. That's kind of like my porn, so I don't get that bad. But, I definitely remember times where we don't have. So when I do have, I'm like, "Oh" I literally got three of those big Costco things of toilet paper in the basement because that's just my stash for when I don't have it. And beginning of this pandemic didn't fucking help because I was like, "Mm, I'm smart. I'm smart. Y’all are stupid." So it just reinforced my fuckery.
Jodie Slaughter: It reinforced it. Yeah, I do that. I do a version of that with shopping. And I mean shopping for like clothes and stuff. For a long time I just couldn't. When I was probably like 19, 20, I had two bras. I wore them down to like the... Listen because..And I got...
Erica: Girl, I'm looking at you and them things are thangin.
Jodie Slaughter: And it would get to where I would have the money, but I was struggling, and my mother was also struggling. And the only thing I could think of that's worse than me struggling is my mom and my sister. So for me, my thing was always, "I'm keeping a certain amount of money, always." Not even just my contingency, but if my mom... If something happens to her car, and I know she needs help or whatever, my sister needs something for something because my sister's seven years younger than me. That's right. So I spend any of my extra money. I would have this weird thing where all of a sudden maybe one day I'd wake up and I'd realized I'd have 200 extra dollars in my bank account and something would just happen. And I'd be like, "Okay, let me just go buy like some jeans and whatever."
Jodie Slaughter: And I still do that even though I'm not, my mother isn't, my sister isn't, all of us are very financially stable and good right now. And I still do that. I still don't shop regularly. So one day I'll look up and I'll have spent $300 on some shit I could have bought stretched out over like three months.
Erica: Over the year.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So I do. It's like poverty. It's PTSD. It's what it is.
Kenrya: It is actually. So this is definitely something that I struggle with, and I've talked about it a little bit on this show. So I co-wrote a book called “How We Fight White Supremacy.” And in it I had to write an essay about money. I could not write that fucking essay because it was unearthing too much stuff for me. It really didn't break until I talked to my therapist about it three weeks in a row because we had to have this conversation about what is my relationship with money, what is it from when I was young that is holding me back. And so much of it is that, I'm like you, we had money and then we didn't. My dad was gainfully employed and was great. And then he got laid off at a certain point. And then we didn't have insurance. We started struggling.
Kenrya: I got my first job when I was 14. I've been working since then. I didn't have a choice. And I realized that I hoard besides... One, I am finally learning to say no to things that I do not have time for, but I used to say yes to everything because I was like, "I never know when the next assignment is going to come because I am a freelancer. I'm a consultant." Down to the point where I'm literally not taking on any more work this year because I'm so busy. Yes. But it took so long to get to that point. And I'm so tired, to be clear. But beyond that, I quit my full-time job earlier this year so that I could just focus on my consulting. It felt great, but it also felt terrible. And what I realized I was doing because I hadn't worked really hard, like crazy, not sleeping to amass some savings, the most money I've ever been able to save up in my entire life. I've never been more than a paycheck away from falling apart, quite honestly.
Kenrya: And so I saved this money in preparation. I had set this goal, I got to save X amount of money to be able to quit my job because my therapist was like, "Bitch, you need a plan. You need to stop saying you're going to quit and have a plan." So I had a plan. I had this amount of money. I got the money saved up. But, then what I found is I was waiting till the last minute, every month to pay my bills. And my therapist was like, "Why are you doing that?" And I was like, "I don't know." She was like, "It's because you're hoarding your money because you don't know what's going to happen. And you're trying to hold on to it till the last possible minute."
Jodie Slaughter: The call out of knowing the power... You learn your due date before they cut it off.
Kenrya: Just how long you can wait before they cut your shit off.
Jodie Slaughter: Note the due day. Because you learn you kind of have almost an extra month to pay that shit. Listen, I get it. And even when you have money, sometimes you feel like, Girl.
Erica: No matter how much I have, I wait for the disconnection notice from AT&T. Y’all going to wait. Y’all going to get your money last.
Kenrya: But here's the thing, though. It with my anxiety to have not paid my bills. So I'm myself over because I've got this scarcity mindset from remembering when I didn't have it. And because I'm afraid to let go of this cushion that I built for myself, but I feel so much better when I do it earlier in the month. So I'm forcing myself to do that, but still so much of my reckoning with the way that I work, and the way that I spend money. Same thing with you with clothes. I actually had to budget money every month to spend on myself. That was another therapy assignment because I don't spend money on myself. I spend money on my kids. I'll buy everybody food. I do all of those things. Yeah. See somebody here benefits from that because I order for delivery for everybody.
Erica: She could be like, "Bitch, Olive Garden." And I'm like, "Bitch, you don't even eat Olive Garden." They gave me extra bread sticks.
Kenrya: But then I don't buy myself clothes or... I mean, I got my gowns, my wonderful lovely gowns. So we transitioned from calling them... exactly we call them gowns because Walter Mercado. I am no longer calling them... Mucho mucho mucho. One for every day. My partner was like, "So how long are we doing this?"
Jodie Slaughter: Probably forever.
Kenrya: I was like, "I know I can't go back. Nigga, I'm naked underneath. Don't ask no questions, just enjoy it."
Jodie Slaughter: It's literally easy access.
Kenrya: He's come around. But there's nothing underneath this thing that I am wearing right now as I'm talking to y’all, and there never is. I be out on the porch with E like, "Hey."
Erica: She shows up and its wafting.
Jodie Slaughter: That's some real mama shit. That's some real Black mama shit.
Kenrya: And I love it.
Erica: It just floats.
Jodie Slaughter: You got the house shoes on too?
Kenrya: No. No, I'm usually... Well, I'm in flip-flops. What they call them now? Slides? I be in slides.
Jodie Slaughter: Mine are over there.
Erica: I keep some fluffy shoes on.
Kenrya: That's the point of the pandemic that I'm in. I was doing leggings, the whole athleisure because that's normally what I'm in, anyway. It's too restrictive. I only put that on if I'm taking a walk.
Jodie Slaughter: I've had such a weird pandemic. At the beginning, I was doing it because I've had a hard year mental health wise. I spent a long time knowing that I had anxiety and kind of ignoring it. Being like, "I know I have it." But, just being like, "Yeah, I can kind of push it to the wayside." I had started working out
Jodie Slaughter: a little more in, I'd say, February. One day I'm doing... What was I doing? Like a squat or something like, oh, a plank. And I just pulled a muscle right under my titty, really.
Kenrya: Oh, no.
Jodie Slaughter: So logically, I know that this is what I've done. And it's not that bad. I don't go to the doctor about it immediately. But I spiral because I start being like, "Well, what if it's my gallbladder? What if this pain is this, this, this? What if I have this? What if I have MS?" Like spiraling in a way that I... I've had a little, which is a thing, I've had ever since I started writing, ever since I started realizing that there is a trajectory for me and it does seem to be going up. I started developing a little bit of, what's my brain fog, a little bit of hypochondria. And it's always something fatal. It's always like, "Oh, I'm going to get cancer." I'm 26 years old.
Kenrya: What's going to come fuck this up? Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. And that's exactly what it is because everything else in my life is pretty fine, money is fine, relationship, it's like I'm not in one, but that's okay.
Kenrya: That's good too.
Erica: That's fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. That's fine. My relationship with my family is fine, everything's fine. It's like I need something, waiting-
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:25:39] So you're waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Jodie Slaughter: I can't be happy. And so I just start spiraling and it's been an uphill battle. It's been good, but, or it hasn't been good. But in the quarantine I was like, we're working out every day, I'm like cooking every day, I'm writing. I drafted a book in like a month and a half. But lately it's been like... it's been to the point where I'm like, "All right, I need to like sit down and not do anything." You know what I mean?
Kenrya: We're several months into this shit.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Kenrya: And it's only so long... I mean, there's only so long you can go.
Jodie Slaughter: The sustained level of hyper-awareness [crosstalk 00:26:26] that some of us already have.
Kenrya: I'm like the same. We're at a fucking 10 already.
Erica: We're already up right here, and now we're just here nonstop.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah and its...
Erica: It's difficult.
Kenrya: It's exhausting.
Erica: It is exhausting. That's the best way to put it. Girl, I totally understand.
Jodie Slaughter: It's ghetto! It's the ghetto! And that's the good ghetto because the ghetto is great.
Kenrya: It is the ghetto. Not great, zero stars, would not recommend.
Jodie Slaughter: This is, actually, I don't know what this is. This is awful, but oh child. And it's so crazy because this is one of the best, personally I guess, years of my life.
Jodie Slaughter: Some good ass things are happening to me.
Kenrya: But trash.
Jodie Slaughter: And last night I spent a good... Woke up six in the morning, shivering, Googling whether or not I had multiple sclerosis with no evidence.
Kenrya: Oh, honey.
Jodie Slaughter: You know what I mean? It's so wild.
Kenrya: That spiral is real.
Erica: It took a really long time for me in therapy to go through that, to realize that that's what I was looking for. And that shit was... I realizing that while shit was falling apart. I'm like, "I know I'm going through a divorce, but something bad is going to happen."
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: And my therapist is like, "You're going through divorce-"
Kenrya: It's happening.
Erica: "... and you're handling it very, very well."
Jodie Slaughter: Right!
Erica: So it takes a minute to kind of understand. The one thing that my therapist always tells me is that "you know how to rebuild." So even if something horrible happens, you know how to get through it.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: And I was like, girl, I thought I was finished. I was about to graduate in therapy. When my therapist steps you down to like every other week out to a month, I'm like, "Oh I graduated."
Jodie Slaughter: I'm perfect now, I'm good.
Erica: Literally the week after I graduated to every two weeks, I found out I had cancer. And so it was like, "Mmhm!"
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: And I got it out one good time and it was like, "Okay, I got this." And it got to a point I was sitting in therapy like, "So my hair is falling out from chemotherapy and I got both titties chopped off, but everything's good." And she was like, "Wow!" It took a whole lot to get there. So you will get there.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So I think that's the thing with anxiety, is that you're prepared for everything.
Jodie Slaughter: So when it actually gets there, you're like, "Oh I'm cool, calm and collected." I know I've been through this in my head. So many times.
Erica: I had a Terminus picked out already. Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: I already felt how bad this is, maybe worse.
Kenrya: I never thought about that in that way, when emergencies happen, I am leveled.
Jodie Slaughter: You're chill. You're calm.
Erica: Yeah. And that's the thing.
Kenrya: To the point where people have told me that they feel like I don't care. And I'm like, no, it's just because I've already... You're right.
Erica: This is a problem, we're going to work through it.
Kenrya: We're going to solve it.
Jodie Slaughter: Because I've solved it. Every possible way this could go, I've thought about it.
Erica: A through Z and there's plan AA also.
Kenrya: You are fucking right.
Jodie Slaughter: I go through this with my mom. My mother is, I mean, obviously everyone has anxiety but she does. And she... When a situation comes up, she can get kind of panicked and I'm always like, 'Okay, this is what we're going to do. This is..." And she's always like... Or she'll be... She's like, "Jodie, stop overthinking." And I'm like, "Well, I'm prepared if some shit happens." And that's how. And I wish you could just get to that level of always being like, "I've been through things before. I've been in pain. I have been hurt. I have been troubled. I've been and I'm here. And I got through it because I don't have... That's all I can control is how I get through it." If I'm going to die tomorrow, that's just what it's going to be. And I'm not going to be thinking, "Well if I die tomorrow, I'm not going to be able to publish my book and blah, blah." Well, I'll be dead.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. You know what I mean? And also I'll be dead.
Kenrya: There's that.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm not going to care. That'll be the least probably. But it's but it's so hard to get there at a state, to try to be there as consistently as possible. But we work at it, we go to therapy. We suck down these meds.
Erica: The good meds. [crosstalk 00:31:01] "How's everything?" "Great! Great! Great! I feel it, it's great."
Kenrya: And we share, right? We have these conversations. I think that there are so many folks who probably deal with anxiety and don't know it, or haven't admitted it to themselves or haven't gotten help in an official diagnosis. I had my first panic attack when I was probably in the eighth grade. So it was at 13, 14 years old, but nobody knew what the fuck was going on. I cried for a fucking day.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Kenrya: They just said, I broke... I think they said I had a nervous breakdown. Nigga I was in the eighth grade and then it just, we just moved on. I didn't go to therapy. It wasn't a thing. It was the nineties, early nineties, nobody, whatever... But now we have these conversations and hopefully if there's somebody who has experienced this spiral and recognizes themselves and it's like, "Oh fuck, this is the thing that I do and didn't even understand that I was doing it." It helps them to be able to get some help too, right?
Jodie Slaughter: If you do, you are not alone. I know what you're feeling. That feeling in your heart, in your belly. When you're sitting up and it's six in the morning and you have a little pain in your pinky and all of a sudden you're like, "it's over for me," or "what's going on?" I get it. I understand. What's really helped me, I went through cognitive behavioral therapy and that I have varying feelings about it. But one thing I know that has helped me, it's like because I am... I do tend to like to rely on logic a lot.
Kenrya: And there's no logic there.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. No, none at all.
Jodie Slaughter: But my therapist was like, "We need to look at like our evidence." Right? You have a pain in your side, what else are we having? You know what I mean? People with MS don't just wake up one day with a pain in their side and they go to the doctor and the doctor is like, "You have MS." It's like, what is the evidence? What's the... And I know that's not, it's not the end. The evidence is not always the thing that pulls me back, I have to learn coping mechanisms and whatever. Sometimes it's reading, sometimes it's playing games on my phone for like two hours. Whatever it is
Kenrya: Mine right now is “New Girl.” I've just been having heart palpitations again.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, put on a show.
Kenrya: I just been laying on the couch for 30 minutes in the middle of the day when my heart is going crazy and watching an episode of a show that makes me laugh like a fucking crazy person.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, listen. Jessica Day and the boys, they'll get you good.
Erica: I just schedule Tik Tok time. I'm not elevated like you guys.
Jodie Slaughter: That is so... No, no. So I'm 26, my sister is 19. So she's gen Z. I think she woke up the other day and was like, "Oh, my side hurt," or whatever. And she was like, "I think pulled trying to learn a Tik Tok dance."
Erica: See, that's my old ass. I'm 40 and I'm like, "Oh, let's do a Tik Tok dance."
Kenrya: You're not 40 yet, bitch. [crosstalk 00:10:18].
Erica: I'm 39 and I should not be pulling muscles doing Tik Tok dances.
Kenrya: Sure. But let's not put us there before we get there.
Jodie Slaughter: No, please. I can't wait. I hate being, especially cause I'm young and everybody in the romance community.
Kenrya: Thirties are fucking amazing.
Erica: I would say enjoy it all, enjoy each part of it. The twenties were fun because I was young and dumb and being a hoe and just do that. Yeah, the pandemic.
Jodie Slaughter: I can't go outside.
Kenrya: Outside is closed.
Erica: Outside is closed. The thirties, you're getting a little more like, "Okay, this is who I am."
Erica: And now that I'm approaching 40, bitch, I don't care. I got the money. It is just balls to the wall.
Kenrya: That's real shit. It is a beautiful time.
Jodie Slaughter: Twenty is fine. It's fine.
Erica: Okay! I'll take your twenties
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah! Well it's because of my anxiety, because I've experienced it so long, it almost feels like I'm older. I'm ready to reap the benefits of... Cause my sister, I have an older sister as well and she's 34. And she's like, "When you turn 30, you're just horny all the time. You're ready to go." She's like something about you just whatever. And I'm ready to... She's like, you just feel good. She's like, even though you wake up and your body hurts all the time, you just feel good. And I'm ready for that.
Erica: I saw this Venn diagram on Instagram. It was like "My pussy and my joints." And it was like, "Popping." And that is where I am.
Kenrya: That is so accurate!
Erica: But so I will say, I think what makes it better when you get older is that that you learn to shed. You're learning the shit that was put in you as a young teen. So you're like, "You know what? Y'all going to like this fucking good. Y'all going to like this roll. Y'all going to like this backpack. You going to get the pussy that is served. If you don't the pussy that's served, go to another restaurant."
Jodie Slaughter: I get it. I'm only getting there this year, I bought my first two bodycon dresses a few weeks ago.
Jodie Slaughter: Because I've always been fat. I've never been like insecure enough about my body to be like, "I'm going to change it."
Jodie Slaughter: But I have always been like, okay, well we're going to wear things that hide this and hide this. And I was up one night doing the impulse shopping, and I was like, I want to put... I don't have anywhere to go, but I want to try. I've never owned two dresses that were this tight because everybody was always like, "Your stomach, your-"
Kenrya: Fuck them.
Jodie Slaughter: And I looked good as fuck.
Jodie Slaughter: And I was like "Wow! I can't believe I've been missing this!"
Erica: Put it on, take some thirst trap photos. Yes.
Jodie Slaughter: Yep. That's exactly what I did.
Kenrya: Even if they live in your phone, take them shits and look at them and remember.
Jodie Slaughter: I look at them. I'm like "Wow. I can't believe." So, I've just kind of started getting there and I can't wait for that to grow because...
Kenrya: It does, yeah.
Erica: Well I just ordered some lingerie, I suggest you do that. Because Rihanna and her Savage campaign, Savage Fenty campaign. Yeah, so I ordered some. As soon as it gets here, y'all going to see my titties left and right.
Kenrya: We already see your titties left and right.
Erica: I'm sorry.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, the world needs more. Do you know what I mean? There's never too much. Never too much, never too much.
Erica: Okay, so.
Jodie Slaughter: I have completely fucked up y'all, just completely derailed.
Erica: No. This is exactly what we need and I love it, I absolutely love it. Okay. So we going to turn to your current book, your latest work, “Just One More.”
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: Tell us about that.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, “Just One More.” I just wanted to write something that was Black and fun and sweet and smutty and filthy. And I was just that's it. And I was like, I want to put it out on Valentine's day because I'm single and I'm not doing shit. But I like... You know what I mean? I still like Valentine's day. And I was like, I want to write about two people who like Valentine's day sort of unabashedly and barbers, because barbers are so sexy and they're sluts and I love it.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, I say slut in the least shamey way possible. I live for it.
Erica: No they're thots, I love it though.
Jodie Slaughter: They are!
Erica: They keep... They always have cash on them.
Kenrya: Always have cash.
Jodie Slaughter: Always crispy.
Erica: They smell good.
Jodie Slaughter: And I have such a fondness for barbers and I know this is going to sound so... So I told you that my grandmother was a hairdresser and my grandfather was an engineer, but he's my step-grandfather who my grandmother married when my mom was young. My biological grandfather was a barber.
Kenrya: It's in your blood.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. I spent a lot of time when I was young in his barbershop because granny would make me sweep and shit. And he would just let me, because they had their own, and he would just let me run around. Literally he'd talk the old Black man's ears off because I would meet people later in life and be like, "Yeah, I remember you used to be talking," but I just have a fondness for... I just remember such good memories and I was like, "I need a barber," and yeah. So that was the inception of that. I know.
Erica: With a beard.
Jodie Slaughter: That's just the inception I love. I love the smell of a smock.
Erica: Yeah. The powder has a certain smell and that blue stuff. Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: Hair salons, barbershops there are so... And I went natural because I didn't want any, my grandmother did my hair from when I was…
Erica: She was like "I don't want no damn perm no more."
Jodie Slaughter: ... until when she died. Listen, I had a relaxer at four. Listen, I know.
Kenrya: Wait, did you granny put you in them curls, the rollers.
Jodie Slaughter: Roller wrap. It was a... Rosetta was incredibly traditional.
Kenrya: Yes Rosetta.
Jodie Slaughter: When I was about 13, I was like, "Please, can we start the flat iron. Please."
Erica: She used the Marcel joints.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, or the roller wrap. And so she had to get my cousin Sharnella, who also, they worked in the shop together. I have a lot of hairdressers in my family to teach her how to flat iron. Cause she was like...
Jodie Slaughter: All old Black lady clients, we don't do that. They want the roller wrap. And I was like I'm sick of sitting-
Kenrya: They want a roller wrap and maybe a blue [Crosstalk 00:17:16].
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. And I was like I want it straight because I was going through a little emo phase. And she was like, "No."
Kenrya: You got to bump them ends.
Jodie Slaughter: I wanted to put color in my hair. I wanted a part that was right here that went like this. She said "No." I wanted a side bang, she was like, "Okay, we can do a little something," and it was barely. So she would.
Kenrya: With a real hard curl at the bottom.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen! She would not let me experiment with my hair. I mean, for a while when I was young, I would have the twisties, the little twist and then sometimes some straight back.
Erica: Some murder braids.
Jodie Slaughter: But I put it into that when I went on vacation with my friend and we were in like Indianapolis and this old white man was like, "Hi, little boy." And I was like, we're not doing that ever again anymore, ever. But I went to an Easter Girl Scout parade in a pink velour sweatshirt and some pink Timbs and some straight backs. So that's what I was doing.
Kenrya: I cannot.
Jodie Slaughter: So yeah. Yeah. That's where I was and-
Erica: I'm sorry, I had to mute myself while I stop snorting.
Jodie Slaughter: No listen. But she did my hair. She and my cousin Sharnella, who were both family, were the only people who ever did my hair and my mom or whatever. So I always viewed getting my hair done as such a fraught, like emotionally fraught obviously, but intimate experience. And after she died, I didn't want to go to anybody else and so I was having my mom put relaxer in my hair in the kitchen. And then I was finally like, "all right, that's it. We're just going to not do that shit anymore." So I have a huge fondness for like hairdressers, hair salons, barbers and I was like, "I need to write a barber."
Kenrya: So the main characters in “Just One More” are: there's a male protagonist, who's a barber, and then the female protagonist is a tattoo artist. Right?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: And they both love Valentine's day. And one very special Valentine's day, they cross each other's paths, right?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: We don't want to give too much away, so we'll make sure we put a link to that in the show notes so that cats can read it as well.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah it's filthy, so definitely read it. I mean-
Erica: Yes, we had picks of the sex scenes. Kenrya was like, "Well, we going to read this one." I said "No, bitch. No, bitch. We got another one we got to read."
Kenrya: And I read it for the first time as I was recording it. Oh God. Okay, this is great.
Erica: It was spicy. It was spicy.
Jodie Slaughter: I love it.
Kenrya: Yeah. So speaking of which last week we read an excerpt from “White Whiskey Bargain,” which I kept calling “White Whiskey Bottom.”
Jodie Slaughter: You know what, actually, now that I think about it, that's a good title. It's a different book, but it's a good title.
Kenrya: Yes, but...
Jodie Slaughter: One that I might have to write.
Kenrya: I would like to see it. I like it. So “White Whiskey Bargain” stars Hannah and she's forced to take over a family business after her mother dies. What sparked the idea for this book?
Jodie Slaughter: I wanted to write... I'm born in Birmingham, Alabama, but-
Kenrya: My family is from Birmingham.
Jodie Slaughter: My dad's family is. My mom's family, Louisville, Kentucky. We moved back when I was two that's where I was raised. That's where I live now. I have always had such a fascination with Appalachia, Kentucky specifically. Even though Appalachia is a very large, but because one of my parents spent quite a bit of time in Appalachia, Kentucky, and I was always super fascinated by it. And I was always very fascinated about like, first of all, we don't see a lot of like content about Appalachia period.
Kenrya: Especially Affrilachians.
Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. When we do, they're always white. So there are people who like-
Erica: We think Dolly Parton is the only one.
Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. There are people who like don't even know, but there are large populations of people of color, Black and Brown people who live and have lived in Appalachia for decades, making a life. And that's what I wanted to write about. And when I was sort of like conceptualizing that idea, because I kind of like sometimes writing characters that are a little sometimes morally gray in certain areas and skirt the law. Like I'm not interested so much in people who play by the rules in a world where I feel that like the concept of like justice is...
Kenrya: Skewed as fuck. What the fuck is that?
Jodie Slaughter: It doesn't mean, the concept of just people who like quote unquote follow the law, doesn't mean as much to me in a world where we know that to be unjust. Yeah. And I was just like, moon shining is fun, it's illegal. I was like, it's really interesting. So I'm just going to like write a story about, kind of not Romeo and Juliet, but rival rivalries. And I'm only going to have Black and Brown people as the main characters.
Erica: Well, I loved it, absolutely loved it. And I think I noted this when we were discussing the book, I love that your characters are flawed, but not in this like... They're just people and not in this, you know...
Kenrya: It's not a fatal flaw.
Erica: Gasp stare at the camera. I can't believe this happened. They're people, shit happens. You make decisions because of a variety of reasons and you just deal with it, you know? So I fucking loved the book and loved the fact that you set it in Appalachia.
Jodie Slaughter: Either way, I love Affrilachians, I love that word.
Kenrya: I know!
Erica: I know, because I'm from Missouri from the Midwest. And when I grew up hearing about Appalachia, you think about Dolly Parton and coal mining, but no, there's a whole... We're everywhere, and not only are we everywhere, we have our own cultures and communities everywhere.
Jodie Slaughter: That's a big part to me when I was trying to figure out... So Javier, his family is Mexican American and what I was trying to convey that as respectfully as possible. And when I was conceptualizing like, okay, how are they going to talk? Am I going to put how they talk in the dialogue? Not just say they have accents, but type everything out is...
Kenrya: Like on Zora Neale Hurston, how do you...
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I thought, these people have been in this place for generations. They're going to talk like the people in Appalachia talk, they're going to have accents, but they're also going to retain, because there are things about their individual cultures that are so deep rooted but they're also going to retain that as well as have their own thing, because you can't be that isolated and not have your own thing. But also come from two groups of people whose cultures are very deep rooted, very proud and not also retain that as well. So it was really fun and really challenging, but incredibly important to me.
Kenrya: Wow. What kind of research kind of went into making that happen?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh Lord. I did a lot of reading, a lot of articles of which to be honest, there needs to be more research about Black and brown people in Appalachia, but there isn't a ton, but I did a lot of reading. And then I did a lot of talking to my mother who spent, I want to say a couple of years in Harlan, Kentucky, actually. And so a lot of the people that she did interact with were outsiders like her, but a lot of them were also native. So we talked lot about that. And then I did watch some of the show Justify, which is very white. But it's also a good, interesting representation community wise. So yeah, it's an amalgamation of reading, watching, listening.
Erica: So you do a beautiful job building intimacy between the two main characters. Just the pazole, is that what you call it? I thought that was just a beautiful scene. We're going to cook and it's just beautiful. But...
Kenrya: It's also a good dish. I make two different kinds, red and green.
Erica: I made a red one. It was so good. But bitch we were farting for like fucking years. You could have gone to the moon with the gas that was coming out of this body. But then...
Kenrya: We mostly eat beans in my house so it's not...
Erica: But transition from farting. You have some nasty ass scenes in this book. I fucking loved them. And for the scene that we read, we read the one where Hannah and Javier masturbated in front of each other. Fucking amazing. It was hot as hell. It was just intimate and sensual without, ’cause we always talk about sex as just actual penetration, and it's so much more than that. What do you want people to take away from that particular scene?
Jodie Slaughter: I want people to take away... There are so many ways to have sex. There are so many ways to enjoy sex. There are so many ways to have a partner or partners be with them, turn them on, get them off without ever having to lay a finger on them, which I think is incredibly sexy to me. I love dirty talk. It's an overwhelming thing in my books because I'm just into it and so I think that's a big thing in there. I just think, try it. You know what I mean? If you're into it, if you're interested in it, because it can get you far.
Erica: Girl, it can get you there.
Kenrya: It got them far.
Jodie Slaughter: It got them there. I think romance and erotica does a fantastic job of exploring the many ways there are to have sex. And I don't think I particularly did anything groundbreaking here, but I definitely want this to be another representation of a really great way to be intimate, to be sexy and it doesn't have to be a thing. I didn't want Javier to think, "Oh, I'm so jealous of that or whatever." And the concept of Hannah, in the scene, she squirts, but she also says, I can make me do it, but you probably can't...
Kenrya: She says, “I'll teach you, sure, but it's going to take some work.”
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, exactly right and I wanted that to be how it is. When you're by yourself... But you can be by yourself and with other people at the same time. I just wanted to show something like that.
Kenrya: Yeah. And I love that the squirting was not a big deal, you know what I mean? It was just what she does. There was no, "Oh, she's embarrassed." She didn't want to do it in front of him. He didn't make some big scene, you know what I mean? He came over, he picked up the towel, he said, "All right, let's go clean up."
Jodie Slaughter: That's what we in the fan fiction world, which is how I got my start being interested in writing, called wet and messy.
Erica: So fan fiction, what was your first fan fiction you wrote?
Jodie Slaughter: My first, oh God. I read fan fiction for years before I wrote anything. But the first... What was the first...
Erica: Oh, come on, embarrass yourself.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. I actually forgot because I did write something very early on. When I was, I want to say I was maybe 13. There was this band that nobody knows called McFly. They're a British pop rock band. Just four boring white boys. I had written this, but I was just in love because of course. And this is back when, especially with a band. It wasn't on fanfiction.net or AO3. It was on message boards. I don't even think I ever finished it, a self not a self insert, but a Black OC. OC meaning original character, excuse me. I have to explain the terminology. With one of the band members, that's the first thing I ever wrote. But I got more serious about writing fan fiction a few years ago when I got really deep into “The Walking Dead” fandom and started writing Michonne and that's where I met my writing group of fan fic writers and they're why I'm here.
Erica: We're going to have to put a pin in that and talk to you about that one.
Jodie Slaughter: Filthy. I wrote some and it's good.
Erica: That's will be like, that's my kind of drink, I like it. Well it's funny because we interviewed Christina C. Jones and she said...That's why I asked, what's yours?
Jodie Slaughter: Hers is much less embarrassing because I understand her even from now as a 26-year-old. I get it. Me? Looking back at I'm like, "Girl, you were... No."
Jodie Slaughter: Y’all are going to Google it and look at me and think, oh man...
Kenrya: I'm definitely going to Google it.
Erica: Wait, they got one dude that's white.
Jodie Slaughter: They're so white and they're British so they're even whiter.
Erica: And the wind in his hair goes like this.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, That's probably Dougie, does he have a nose ring or lip ring. Which one did he have?
Erica: I guess he's the spicy one. The urban one?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, maybe that's Harry, he's a little tanner. My favorite one...
Erica: These motherfuckers are...
Kenrya: There's no tan.
Erica: It's like you're milk colored, you're skim colored, you're 2% milk colored.
Jodie Slaughter: My favorite one was Tom who's the very blonde one, because he was a nerd. And I thought, "Oh, he likes Star Wars and I don't care about Star Wars, but I think I like nerds or whatever."
Erica: So just so you know, they are coming back. The picture that I'm looking at of them is from 2019.
Kenrya: Oh they're grown.
Erica: Yeah. They have a sold-
Kenrya: They signed a record deal.
Erica: They have a sold-out show. None of them are blonde anymore because they've grown. But now I do see the blonde one with the very early 2000's tie.
Jodie Slaughter: I think that's Tom and he was my favorite.
Kenrya: This one's kind of cute.
Jodie Slaughter: That was Dougie.
Kenrya: He's kind of cute.
Erica: That's the one with the hair.
Jodie Slaughter: He's the youngest one.
Kenrya: Yeah. I can see that. Only in theory.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, they were my life for a good two years. It was so dark because this was 2007. So none of my friends, they were just this random, they never became big here... So you wouldn't turn... Nobody knew them.
Kenrya: Yeah that one, he's cute as an adult.
Erica: All chiseled and...
Kenrya: I like a little hair situation and a mascara situation. I do.
Erica: And if you saw your partner...
Kenrya: I know he's not that at all.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God.
Kenrya: Oh, that's okay. I'm the one who was always a little attracted to Captain Jack Sparrow.
Jodie Slaughter: Were you really? I never got there.
Kenrya: A little dirty, a lot of mascara.
Erica: He looks like his balls stink.
Erica: Bitch, you like Jim Jones.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. Wait a second though.
Kenrya: He always looks dirty.
Erica: But he looks scruffy.
Kenrya: He looks like if you did this you would leave a streak on his face.
Jodie Slaughter: He's fine.
Erica: Thank you.
Kenrya: He looks like he hasn't bathed.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. But the thing about that is that sometimes they can look-
Erica: Break it down for me, sis.
Jodie Slaughter: Not dirty enough. I tweeted yesterday, this is another questionable white man attraction. That Chris Evans, the only time I really see it for him is when you know he's been in Boston for a long time, because you start clicking.
Erica: His accent is thicker, a little scruffier.
Jodie Slaughter: He starts wearing the white rib tank top. I don't want to call it a traditional name.
Kenrya: What do you call it, the traditional A-shirt?
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. He has shitty tattoos. He looks a little filthy and Katrina Jackson and I, I said because Katrina Jackson was like, yes! And I said he looks like a grimy, who will you fuck you in an alley and then buy you a slice of pizza after.
Erica: You like anal with pepperoni?
Jodie Slaughter: Sometimes you need to do it and you need to say, [crosstalk 01:02:28] listen, I know I'm going to have to go get some cranberry juice tomorrow. But it's worth it. Sometimes if they're a little grimy, its okay, it's good.
Erica: Therefore, Jim Jones gets all the stars.
Jodie Slaughter: I see it for Jim Jones. I do.
Erica: Thank you.
Jodie Slaughter: I do, unfortunately.
Kenrya: All right. We just going to have to agree to disagree there.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, Michael B. Jordan, who does a paper bag test with every woman he's ever been with, let alone kids. I just think he's just so fine. And it's so dark to me.
Kenrya: I like him from here to here. I just want to see the chest and the abs like from “Creed” time, but don't look at him. Because like you said, it's the paper bag situation. You ain't checking for me at all.
Jodie Slaughter: It's disgusting.
Kenrya: Yeah. I can't. And Erica always says I ruin people, but I know people who know him...
Erica: Here's the thing, Kenrya has been in the industry for so long. And so as my best friend, I will literally text her in the middle of the day and say I like beep and she'll say, “I had a friend that worked with him…” I'm just like bitch. So I do still share my stories of who I desire. However...
Kenrya: You just know I might ruin them.
Erica: I just know that I got to get it firmly in my loins. That I'm going to fuck them whether or not. And then I tell Kenrya and she might, or she might not, most of the time she ruins the fantasy.
Kenrya: I do...
Erica: Well no, she tries to, but I'm thinking, you know what, these loins...
Jodie Slaughter: Some of them are deep seeded, depending on they want what they want.
Erica: Exactly. These loins want what they want.
Kenrya: And that's fine, but it's my duty to tell you what I know, what you choose to do with that information.
Jodie Slaughter: Kenrya, who is your number one celeb crush right now?
Kenrya: Oh, I don't know.
Jodie Slaughter: Don't say you don't have any!
Kenrya: I don't know if I have one.
Erica: Bitch, I got a whole list. One, Rihanna, two, Jonathan Majors because that man, look like he could knock the civil rights out my pussy.
Jodie Slaughter: He's a man.
Erica: He's a good man. Look, he just look all negrofied, let me fuck your negro pussy.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen! He's civil rights fine and you know he's going to go to work, he's going to provide.
Erica: He got them John Henry arms.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God, have you been watching “Lovecraft Country”?
Erica: Yes bitch.
Kenrya: She's sick.
Jodie Slaughter: [inaudible 01:05:13] ain't shit, it ain't a sliver of shit. I still think I can make it work.
Erica: I can make it work.
Jodie Slaughter: That's how fine he is.
Erica: Vogue just did a 24 hours with.
Kenrya: Oh I saw, I didn't watch it yet though. [crosstalk 01:05:31] that's the only image I saw.
Jodie Slaughter: Women have to change those sheets.
Erica: The dogs be sitting on the corner of the bed, looking at us like "Mama, why are you doing that to daddy?" Shut up kid!
Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God.
Erica: Yes. And the thing is, after seeing that, this changes my thoughts of him because I'm a bird and I feel like I might be a little too birdy for him because I'm going to be like, "I'll fuck you to some Jodeci." And he says, “No, let's put on some Sade.” And I say, "No, Jodeci motherfucker." He looks like he's a little refined?
Jodie Slaughter: Y'all could settle in the middle of some Floetry.
Erica: Yeah, we could, until she starts singing.
Kenrya: Oh, I have some Floetry on my list. Yeah. It's on my playlist.
Erica: All right. I'm sorry.
Jodie Slaughter: He probably wants to listen to The Roots all the time. Like can we listen to some Gucci Mane? I get it. I need supplies. We need something to really...
Erica: And he has been very, very active with regard to the political campaign season.
Jodie Slaughter: I know that makes Miss Pretty Pussy even more... Because there's nothing to me like [crosstalk 01:06:59] I'm sorry but watching, okay. I think that because my ideal is “Moonlight,” that scene with Trevante Rose is driving...
Kenrya: I can get with you there, I can't get with you on Plies, but Trevante all day.
Jodie Slaughter: I would sleep with Plies, but I don't know that I'm looking at him like I think he's so sexy, like physically, but I still would. There's something there.
Erica: Let's say that my bar is low, but I'd fuck a lot.
Jodie Slaughter: You get hot for Kirk Franklin too?
Kenrya: Do you really?
Erica: Yeah. I'd give him some gospel pussy. Okay. Sorry.
Jodie Slaughter: I can kind of see it. His wife is so beautiful, I'd do them both. I feel they're so little though. I think I'm taller than both of them probably [crosstalk 01:08:07].
Erica: Me too, I'd probably fuck them in half, but you know what? I'll just put you back together and say, “Here's some Band-aids, talk to you later! Bye.”
Jodie Slaughter: Kenrya's face is saying, "These bitches are..."
Kenrya: No not at all.
Erica: Kenrya's been my best friend for 20 years. This bitch understands. She gets it.
Kenrya: I do.
Jodie Slaughter: You need the balance.
Erica: She's the yin to my yang, because what's fucked up is I'm loud about it. This bitch is quiet. She'll just slink back in and be like, "Hey!"
Jodie Slaughter: I have a friend like that too. Filthy, whose just filthy!
Erica: Bitch, put your titty back in your shirt.
Kenrya: That happened!
Erica: Yeah, it definitely did. I said, “Bitch do you not see that titty out? Goddamn!”
Kenrya: We had a whole session in the car, I was loving it.
Erica: And then she just came up.
Kenrya: I didn't know it was still out.
Erica: I was babysitting her daughter and here she just comes up. I said, "Hey girl, put your titty away."
Kenrya: I mean, to be fair, you've seen my titties.
Erica: I know but Goddamn, have some respect for your nipple. It's just out and flinging in the wind. I'm classy, I don't do that.
Kenrya: That was our second date. And we still together!
Erica: Mind you. I got drunk on the Potomac and definitely was flashing my titties.
Kenrya: You had your whole entire everything out? Yes.
Erica: And this was right after radiation. I asked, "I was showing my titties?" My homegirl said, "Yes, radiation burns and all."
Jodie Slaughter: I live for it.
Erica: Hashbrown breast cancer. That was from Kimmy Schmidt.
Kenrya: Okay. I have a question. Do you have a favorite line or passage from “White Whiskey Bargain” that you would like to share?
Jodie Slaughter: I do. And we actually kind of broached on it a little earlier. It's this scene a little right after Javier comes back and he kind of confronts Hannah and he's like, "You made me feel like and here's why." And they make the pazole.
Erica: Look at that vulnerability.
Kenrya: Using his words!
Jodie Slaughter: That's the sexiest thing and he tells her that he wants to kiss her.
Erica: Mm consent. I have that highlighted in the book and I wrote consent in all caps because it was sexy.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. That's what I wanted. It made me really emotional when I was rereading it. I'll be honest. I read the books obviously when I'm editing them and then almost never, again.
Kenrya: Same. I don't read my books unless I'm at a reading.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, because jarring. I remember, but sometimes people will be like, "Oh, and when this happened." And I just say uhhuh. Because I'm also a pantser so I just... Oh, I'm sorry. That means like...
Kenrya: What's a pantser?
Erica: I thought this was something both of you know and I thought, “Oh okay.”
Jodie Slaughter: So there are plotters people who really plot out their work chapter by chapter or however they do it. And pantsers, which is short for people who fly by the seat of their pants. You just go.
Kenrya: Oh see now. I set my stuff out chapter by chapter, outline.
Erica: What's your sign Jodie?
Jodie Slaughter: I'm a Leo.
Kenrya: Are you?
Erica: You saw her, look at her face when she said.
Jodie Slaughter: What else would I be?
Erica: A pantser seems very Gemini. Someone said Geminis, they don't know what they're saying until the words come out their mouth and it's just like, "Where will this sentence take you?"
Kenrya: So, she's a Gemini.
Erica: If I was a writer, it'd be like, where will this story take you? Let's just see.
Jodie Slaughter: That's what I am. It's what I have. I've tried. It'll probably never see the light, I had this gorgeous Black heist novel starting this like finance Black lead, and this PI, this finance Black PI, and he's like trying to catch her. And I was like, okay, I want to get this done in a reasonable amount of time. So I plotted out every chapter, and then I finished it. I was like, well, it feels like I've written it already. So, you know, that's it.
Kenrya: Okay. We all need you to put some sex scenes in it, and then publish it, and then come back.
Erica: Because this sounds really good.
Jodie Slaughter: I know. It was, I think it's so good.
Erica: Do it.
Jodie Slaughter: I might in like a year. I might be able to-
Erica: I mean, you probably want to sneak a chapter to me. I won't tell nobody.
Jodie Slaughter: I might put you on my pre-reader list. Yeah.
Erica: Yes bitch, please. Thank you very much.
Jodie Slaughter: Because I have some things.
Erica: Or I'll tell your mama about Plies.
Jodie Slaughter: No! Speaking of y'all are probably going to cut, you don't have to cut it out, but it's so... Because we're talking about crushes. My aunt, she got my mother, she was like, Tori, you need to watch the “50 Shades of Grey” movie.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. So my mother did it.
Erica: Did she try to talk to you about it?
Jodie Slaughter: No, but she's become obsessed with it. She watches them all. And I ended up because I was-
Kenrya: But they're so bad. I watched the first two, they're so bad.
Jodie Slaughter: What I found out is that she thinks Jamie Dornan is fine.
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Jodie Slaughter: And that's what it is.
Kenrya: All right.
Jodie Slaughter: She was like, can you get this thing called... What is that show he's in? He's in a show with Gillian Anderson where he's a serial killer, by the way.
Kenrya: Is that the one that's on Netflix right now?
Jodie Slaughter: It might be. I think it was, but she was like, can you get that on my TV for me so I can watch it?
Jodie Slaughter: I had to subscribe. I was like, could you watch it in seven days? Because I have to subscribe to the Sundance Channel and I don't feel like paying $7.99 a month. And she was like, yeah. And she watched it in two days, the whole show. My mom don't even like light-skinned men. She thinks Sam Elliott, you know, old white Sam Elliott with-
Erica: From “Law and Order”?
Jodie Slaughter: He might be. He was in a “Road House”. Got me throwing this pen around. He's got a mustache.
Kenrya: Who the fuck is Sam Elliot?
Erica: “Law and Order” on the screen.
Jodie Slaughter: It might be.
Kenrya: Oh, with the mustache!
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: She thinks he's fine?
Jodie Slaughter: He's maybe the only White man she thinks is fine.
Kenrya: Your mom? Please. Stop.
Jodie Slaughter: Somehow Jamie Dornan is on that. She's like, oh, he's so sexy. And I'm like, ugh.
Kenrya: I mean, we all have, oh he was in “Tombstone.”
Erica: Yeah, I'm like, he looks real Western-y, but okay.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, he is.
Erica: All right, ma.
Jodie Slaughter: I have no clue what's going on in that woman's brain, but yeah.
Kenrya: Now I want to watch “Tombstone.” Because that's got Val Kilmer.
Jodie Slaughter: I just jogged your memory.
Kenrya: You did.
Erica: I don't think I've ever seen “Tombstone.”
Jodie Slaughter: I haven't either.
Kenrya: It's so good. Yeah, okay. I'm having a realization about myself.
Jodie Slaughter: You think Sam Elliott's fine too?
Kenrya: No, but Val Kilmer in that movie is very, you know.
Jodie Slaughter: Val Kilmer?
Kenrya: Val Kilmer does not do it for me, but Val Kilmer in that movie...
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Kenrya: And it's kind of in the same line as Jack Sparrow.
Erica: But just [inaudible 01:16:01], because if you saw her partner. When we get off, I want you to show her a picture of your partner. Because you're going to be like what the fuck?
Kenrya: No, I don't think it's about looks, [crosstalk 00:01:16:15]. It's the androgyny, I think that I'm [crosstalk 01:16:15] that I like. It's the androgyny for me.
Erica: Your partner is-
Kenrya: No, I know he is a big Black man. He is not. Yeah. I am drawn to androgynous people. I think it's really what it is.
Jodie Slaughter: I think that 100%.
Kenrya: Like studs. Yeah. God.
Erica: You can have my baby. You can get me pregnant anytime.
Kenrya: That's what it is.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I get it. I tend to be really into the feminine. So I opt in also very into feminine men. You know Saucy Santana? I looking at him all the time and I'm like, there's something about him that's like sexy. I'm sorry. There's sex appeal there.
Erica: Do you know who Saucy Santana is Kenrya?
Kenrya: No, I'm Googling.
Erica: He's a fucking bird on “Love and Hip Hop.”
Kenrya: Oh, okay. I see this, and I'm…
Erica: Walk him like a dog, aye, aye. Wait. Okay, no. No.
Jodie Slaughter: He's got by...
Erica: Park that big mack truck right in this little garage.
Jodie Slaughter: Garage.
Jodie Slaughter: There's something that I'm really interested. I'm very attracted to the feminine.
Kenrya: Yeah. Oh, like Uncle Clifford?
Erica: Now Uncle Clifford is a different thing.
Erica: Uncle Clifford is fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes, [crosstalk 01:17:35] fine!
Erica: I would fuck with Uncle Clifford, but Saucy Santana is like-
Jodie Slaughter: Well he's a bird, but I also think that's fun.
Erica: I'm a bird. I can't. Did you see this nigga? Him and his homeboys, his home girls, they went and got dressed up on this private street and did this whole shoot for Black Lives Matter.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. That was humiliating. It was awful. Yeah.
Erica: They got dressed up in Black.
Jodie Slaughter: He was like [crosstalk 01:18:00], and people were like this is not okay.
Kenrya: Oh, I saw that! I didn't know who that was. I was like, what is this?
Erica: His crew, yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: I have questionable taste, to be honest. That's what I do, but when he got caught people were like, this is not it. He was like, at least I went out and took pictures, and y’all not doing nothing. It was like, baby, be quiet and just look back at it, and.
Erica: Now I will forever see Saucy Santana clips on TikTok.
Jodie Slaughter: Please. Please. I'm going to be like, listen, I get it.
Jodie Slaughter: There is sex appeal.
Kenrya: Oh my God. I love this. Yeah. It's the androgyny for me. Like right now, I think we're going to watch “Tombstone.” “I'm yo huckleberry,” yes! Yeah. I'm going to have to.
Jodie Slaughter: You about to get randy.
Kenrya: Oh my God. My partner's going to be like, “Bitch what?”
Erica: Okay. Well, okay. So which of your characters in “White Whiskey Bargain” do you identify with most?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh Lord.
Jodie Slaughter: That's really hard. I feel like it would be easy to say Hannah, I guess. I feel like maybe this is a bit of a cop out, I think there is a little bit of me in both Hannah and Javier. The part of me in Javier that is like very loyal to his close family, to his parents. There's the part of me in Javier that can be a little closed off, but also desperately seeking to change that, to be more vulnerable. There's a part of me in Hannah that kind of just wants to like keep things as simple as possible sometimes.
Jodie Slaughter: And then also the part of me in Hannah that's like take charge. So, I will say, I think it really is a mix of both.
Kenrya: That's not a cop out.
Jodie Slaughter: You sure? Okay.
Erica: There were more than two characters in a book, so just pick [crosstalk 00:01:20:36].
Jodie Slaughter: That's true. That's true. I wish I had a cleaner, more succinct answer. Yeah, it's both. It's both of mine.
Kenrya: Okay. What are you reading right now?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, so right now I'm reading, it's on a romance, I'm reading “Mexican Gothic” by, I think it's Sylvia Moreno-Garcia. It's sort of, kind of horror, magical realism type thing. I'm doing it as a buddy read for Halloween with one of my friends.
Kenrya: Oh, nice. That's so cute.
Erica: All we do is drink.
Jodie Slaughter: I don't drink. I would smoke, but none of my friends smoke, so whatever.
Kenrya: All of our friends do both.
Jodie Slaughter: At least rather, none of my friends in this group, because my best friend texted me this morning and was like, I'm taking an edible at six in the morning. I'm about to get lit, let's go. But she's in dental school, so that's why.
Erica: She needs to relax.
Jodie Slaughter: More than anybody. But romance-wise, what am I reading? What am I going to read next, rather? Oh, there's a “Big City Heat Anthology,” and Lucy Eden has a story in it called “The Wolf of Wall Street.” And it's like a wolf shifter.
Kenrya: See, she likes the supes too.
Jodie Slaughter: I do. What really got me super into reading and romance was “Twilight.” Like I say it everywhere, I'll speak it forever, because it is what it is, as problematic as it is. So, I did spend a long time reading paranormal stuff and I got away from it. But I'm trying to get back into it because there is something really entertaining about it. So, I'm really hoping to...
Erica: I think I've read a few really good paranormal romances by Black women, so will share.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, Chencia C. Higgins, she has a series, I forget what it's called.
Erica: We read Chencia Higgins, but we read “Benefriends” from her, right?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes, yes.
Jodie Slaughter: She has, I think it's a series. I think it's called like Wolves of Texas, Wolves of West Texas, something like that. It's real hot.
Erica: We might have Wings of... No. Wings of Fire.
Kenrya: You about to make some shit up.
Erica: No, our kids. What our kids read. What's the one?
Kenrya: There's one sitting right here.
Erica: The one with the first season, the fairies and the-
Kenrya: Oh, I can't remember what it's called, but yeah.
Erica: It was good.
Kenrya: It was good. I can't remember what it's called right this moment though.
Kenrya: There's a lot of books up there.
Erica: We've been acting a fool the whole time, but I want to hit you with a few rapid-fire questions. They're never rapid fire because I'm like, bitch what?
Jodie Slaughter: Okay.
Kenrya: And then we have to chime in with our own answers.
Erica: Okay, one, favorite drink?
Jodie Slaughter: Sweet tea. I was going to say water. That was what I was going to say first. I know that's awful, but sweet tea.
Erica: No, that's good.
Kenrya: Yeah, no. Sparkling water. I drink sparkling water all day.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, I can't you know what's so awful, I like to lukewarm too, like room temperature water. I don't like cold water.
Kenrya: I drink my flat water like that all day, but I also drink sparkling water and I like that really cold. It just depends on if it's got bubbles or not. Yeah. Yeah, E? What's your favorite drink?
Erica: I was going to say a margarita with mezcal in it.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, see, I said I don't really drink, but if I'm choosing an alcoholic drink, it's a dark and stormy. I like ginger.
Erica: Oh, I love ginger. Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative), okay. All right.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay.
Erica: Country or city?
Jodie Slaughter: See, this is not rapid fire.
Erica: It never is.
Jodie Slaughter: City. Yeah, city.
Erica: You Kenrya?
Erica: Yeah, city.
Kenrya: Too many horror movies are set in the country.
Kenrya: Yeah, no thank you.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm in Kentucky, like please.
Erica: So this one, I thought about our dear friends, Hannah and Javier. Your house or theirs?
Jodie Slaughter: Theirs.
Kenrya: That was quick.
Jodie Slaughter: [crosstalk 01:25:20] house is always fun, more fun. You know like when you had friends and it was like, I want to go to your house. Like I want to fuck in your bed.
Kenrya: Let's mess up your sheets.
Erica: See, I know that my sheets are clean.
Jodie Slaughter: That's fair. That's an issue with straight, like [inaudible 01:25:41]
Kenrya: I have fucked in the car, because I asked when the last time the sheets were changed, and they said it had been a couple of weeks, and I said, we gon’ to fuck this car. How about that?
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: I would rather. And I had a babysitter at my house, so I was like, we're just going to fuck in the car.
Kenrya: I mean, I cars. What do you want from me?
Jodie Slaughter: I mean, that's what they're for.
Jodie Slaughter: That's what they're for.
Erica: Big wedding, little wedding?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, little. No wedding. Little wedding. Courthouse.
Kenrya: That's how I got married.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. If I'm going to, I think I really don't want to like have the aisles full of people that neither of us really cares that much about, we have to pay all that money.
Kenrya: Oh, no.
Jodie Slaughter: I don't want one of those giant dresses, like a little, people we care about the most. We go to the courthouse, just us and like our parents or whatever, and then we can have a party after. That's the ideal.
Erica: Red lobster.
Jodie Slaughter: I don't like seafood.
Kenrya: So, we went to Red Lobster after I got married.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm sorry.
Kenrya: It's fine. I got married at the courthouse. Erica was my maid of honor, and then we got on the train and we went to Red Lobster in Times Square.
Jodie Slaughter: I love that.
Erica: I think about Kenrya's wedding day, and it's more about me and her.
Kenrya: It was.
Jodie Slaughter: That's very “Broad City.” Have y’all ever seen “Broad City”?
Kenrya: Yes, yes.
Erica: I love “Broad City”.
Jodie Slaughter: Very Abby and Ilana energy.
Kenrya: The Red Lobster was probably the best thing about the whole fact that we got to be together. I gave y’all, oh you got that Care Bear sticker, the maid of honor badge.
Erica: Yeah, I had my maid of honor badge, it was a Care Bear sticker.
Kenrya: Next time I want a real wedding, but not with people who I don't give a fuck about. First of all, I'm not trying to pay for a bunch of motherfuckers to eat. I just want to be people who I most care about, friends of the marriage.
Jodie Slaughter: You know they're going to complain, they going to be shading like the chicken was, eh.
Kenrya: They don't need to be here.
Jodie Slaughter: No, fuck you. Exactly.
Kenrya: I just want to party. I just don't want
Erica: Party like, yeah. Let's just all kick it and drinks on me.
Kenrya: Yeah. We can get married at the party. We can get married at the party.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh yeah. That's a great-
Erica: So, we're having a party and oh, we're going to get married real quick.
Jodie Slaughter: Make it a surprise.
Kenrya: I don't even know if it has to be a surprise. I just want to get married at the party.
Jodie Slaughter: At the party. I think that's a great idea.
Erica: Hey, turn that music down, they got to get married.
Jodie Slaughter: And you know people are going to be like, oh dang, right in the middle of my song.
Erica: I was just about back that ass up.
Kenrya: I would never do that to the people. We would never turn off “Back That Ass Up” for anything. Somebody would have to be dying for me to fucking turn off “Back That Ass Up.”
Erica: Just wait, damn.
Kenrya: Let me get to the Lil Wayne part.
Jodie Slaughter: Lil Wayne.
Kenrya: That is literally the best part.
Erica: Okay, last question.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay.
Erica: Favorite food?
Jodie Slaughter: Macaroni and cheese.
Kenrya: I thought you were going to say mine.
Erica: The corner?
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, the corner.
Erica: The corner with the crusty piece?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. What's yours?
Kenrya: I don't eat cheese. Mashed potatoes are my favorite.
Jodie Slaughter: Really?
Jodie Slaughter: I don't do much cheese, except for in macaroni. People can just like eat cheese, I can't. I can't. I don't do that.
Erica: My stomach would be pop, locking it, and dropping it.
Jodie Slaughter: Well, that too, but I just don't like it. Because I've only recently become a little lactose-intolerant, but even before.
Erica: Oh, well honey, look down that road, and you see in 10 years, and say I'm going to be lactose intolerant.
Kenrya: It does get worse with repeat exposure and I am allergic to dairy, and I haven't had any in 12, since 2008. Now, there is one thing that I still eat that has cheese in it, and that is the biscuits at Red Lobster. And I just know I'm going to be fucked up.
Erica: Which proves that is not real cheese in it.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, wow.
Kenrya: It's just a poop situation, but it's not vomiting, which is what happens with everything else. So, it's fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, that's good. That's doable.
Kenrya: That is the only dairy.
Jodie Slaughter: You can’t throw up and be on your phone, but you can be like pooping and be on your phone, you know what I mean?
Kenrya: Yeah. I do it all the time. So, it's fine.
Erica: I think my favorite food right now are chicken wings. I just love some fucking chicken wings.
Kenrya: Y'all been ordering from that place over and over again still?
Erica: You open up Uber eats and it's like America's Best, would you like to order your regular? Yes. I want lemon pepper wings, garlic Parmesan, and hot honey barbecue.
Kenrya: When Erica had her last surgery, I was waiting outside forever, because COVID, and I'm texting with her brother and we're trying to figure out what her meal can be, because she's not eating all day because she had to have surgery. And we knew that the only thing she was going to want was fucking wings. And wings were waiting on her ass when she got out of the surgery.
Jodie Slaughter: That is love. That's love.
Erica: She loaned it. She loaned it.
Kenrya: This has been lovely. What's what's next? What are you working on?
Jodie Slaughter: Well, I have some things that I can't say right now.
Erica: You can't share, that's okay.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: You have some surprises in store.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. I have some surprises in store, but I'm also working on like a quarantine novella, another Black romance, an age gap, only ten years, but with like a really sexy sculptor who I'm imagining as Mahershala Ali. And this woman, this gorgeous like bald Black woman I found on Instagram
Erica: You're welcome.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, I [inaudible 01:31:46]. And they're just like in the desert and they have to quarantine together, and there's some like history.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: That's something that I can share, that will be finished and hopefully out soon, but other things you'll have to wait on.
Erica: Oh, okay.
Kenrya: That's awesome. Okay. Well for the people who want to be able to keep up, where can they find you?
Jodie Slaughter: You can find me on Twitter. As we said earlier, being generally hilarious @JodieSlaughter. And then on Instagram-
Kenrya: Can you spell it for the folks, please?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh yes. Oh, I'm sorry, at J, O, D, I, E, S, L, A, U, G, H, T, E, R, and then on Instagram @Jodie_Slaughter, both of those Jodie and Slaughter spelled the same way.
Kenrya: Awesome. And your website is JodySlaughter.com?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Jodie Slaughter: Of course I forget my website.
Kenrya: That's okay, that's what we're here for.
Erica: That's what we're here for.
Kenrya: It's okay.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh gosh.
Kenrya: Y’all, this has been so fun.
Jodie Slaughter: It was so fun y’all.
Erica: This has been dope as hell.
Kenrya: I needed this, I'm having a high anxiety life.
Jodie Slaughter: I do too. After the night I had, I was nervous. I was like, I hope I can bring the energy, but y'all are just so like so easy to talk to, so fun. I had such a great time. You made my day.
Kenrya: Same! Thank you so much for coming on.
Erica: This is dope.
Jodie Slaughter: It was. Thank you for having me.
Kenrya: Aw, okay. Let me say this. I got to say the thing, that's it for this week's episode of The Turn On, and thank y’all so much for joining us, and hopefully laughing with us, because we had fun. Shit. If nobody else did, we did.
Erica: Murder braids and an all-pink outfit, if that ain't Midwest, that's some shit from the Midwest.
Kenrya: Y’all, I was crying. Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: And the Timbs, don't forget the pink Timbs
Erica: Because you saw that on somebody's video.
Jodie Slaughter: The Camron tip, probably, because this was about 2005. I probably saw “Hey Ma” and was like...
Kenrya: “Yes, he's talking to me.”
Erica: Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jodie Slaughter: He's fine too, If we're going to go there.
Kenrya: He is fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Cameron Giles, he is.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to fuck him, but he is fine.
Jodie Slaughter: No, no, no. He seems like more trouble than he's worth, but very hot.
Kenrya: I'll give you that.
Kenrya: Bye y'all.
Jodie Slaughter: Bye y'all.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations, and sex and related questions and follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.