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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya host their very first live show! They talk to special guest Sheree L. Greer about her book "Let the Lover Be," breaking free of addiction, romanticizing relationships pasts and orgasms as escapism.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Okay, so welcome to this week's, this night's, this Saturday night’s episode.
Kenrya: Our very first live show.
Erica: Yeah. Pop! That's the sound of a cherry being popped.
Kenrya: Is it though?
Sheree: I like it.
Kenrya: I feel like that would scare me.
Erica: Could you imagine if like the first time you're having sex, all of a sudden it's like a cork?
Sheree: That's how it is at the end. It's like-
Kenrya: That is a thing that happens.
Erica: Okay, well. We're going to just follow the normal course of show. We have our fantabulous play cousin with us, but we'll get to the introductions after we read. So tonight we are reading from “Let The Lover Be,” which was published in 20-
Erica: Twenty-fourteen by cousin of the show Sheree L. Greer. So sit back. Oh, wait. Before I get started. Okay. Y'all so I'm dropping a link, a bingo card. We always say a few of the same sayings throughout our show so if you hear us-
Kenrya: We repeat ourselves a lot, like old people.
Erica: Yeah. Because I'm old lady. But anyway, so if you hear us say any of this, cross it out on your bingo card. When you get bingo, just tap it in the card. We'll know. And the winner of the bingo game gets a lovely signed copy of “Let The Lover Be.”
Sheree: All right.
Kenrya: So, and everybody gets your own unique card. So when you click that, it should ask you to sign in with your name. And you literally, if you click on the square, that has the thing that we said it'll X itself off, and we can see it. Which is pretty fucking cool. I know right?
Erica: Okay. So sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get your whatever you need and enjoy.
Kenrya: So we're going to read from “Let the Lover Be by Sheree L Greer.” I've never done this with an audience before.
Erica: Just rock that mic.
Kenrya: You know that I'm good at that, so here we go.
Kenrya: The woman was lava, molten, hot lava. She moved over Kiana's skin, slow and steady, thick and rolling, heavy, hot and destructive. Her name was unimportant. Her body a volcano. Kiana's fingers, dove deep inside her, finding a fiery rage, churning and railing around her knuckles. She shook from the inside trembling and coming apart. "I don't even know your name," the woman had said before, Kiana kissed her in the elevator. And, "I told myself I'd stop doing this," she'd whispered into Kiana's neck, as clothes loosened and fell to the floor. Her doubts and hesitations, better judgment, and healthy caution, everything hard and jagged about her, everything solid and certain crumbled and splash into the pool of fire between them as they rolled and rumbled across the bed. The woman's liquid heat coated Kiana's fingers, their sweat sizzling on their skin. Finally, the eruption, the rush, the spray.
Kenrya: It caught Kiana off guard. She removed her hand and looked down at the woman. All she could see was light. The lamp, the sun, the moon, the streetlight. She didn't know which, but it glimmered off the woman's face, making it glowing brass the length of her slender nose and perfection of pouting lips. She dipped down to kiss her, and the woman turned her face and flipped over, situating herself on top of Kiana. The light hit her features, a blur of movement and warmth. The woman's mouth seemed everywhere at once. She went down. And Kiana felt lips and tongue and teeth. She opened her legs in invitation. And the woman accepted. Kiana looked down at the top of the woman's head. She couldn't remember her name or if she'd even asked what it was. She couldn't remember the woman's face. She recalled only light, glowing, comforting, light. And heat. Light and heat. She smiled and arched her body up, offering herself to the sun. Fucking the sun.
Kenrya: It was these moments, these times of complete abandon, that Kiana felt most secure. An oxymoron, uncertain and exposed. She let go of everything and became sure and protected. She rode the rising heat between her legs, her body curling with uncontrollable sensation. She called out to God claiming and clutching at something bigger than herself. "Oh my God," Kiana screamed. The woman moaned. The heat waned only to return again, building up and threatening to explode again. She shuddered against the woman's mouth. Everything she knew and didn't know swallowed by flames. Extinguished against the surface of the sun. This was Kiana's salvation. Her second coming. She threw it all into the sky as she thrust her hips up. Michelle, Genevieve, Karen, her mother. Gumbo and wine, bikes and bread, bass thumps and shots of whiskey. And it burned away to nothing. Only pleasure remained. And she called out to God when she came again.
Kenrya: The woman joined her in the bucking climax. The bed bumping against the wall. If only she could have this, the pleasure of coming together with another, in a single moment suspended in time. There were no expectations in that moment. There were no disappointments. There were no memories. There was only now, now, now, and now again. Kiana closed her eyes with a wish that now could be all there was. That now could be forever. And that forever could be release. No pent up pressure of the past. No festering fantasies for the future. Just the numbing nourishing now. She collapsed against the bed. A blur of light as the woman rose from between her thighs, then darkness.
Kenrya: I'm going to pat myself on the back.
Erica: In the comments, someone said, “Kenrya's voice is like a butter, or a warm blanket.” Someone else said, "It's like hot Cheddar Bay biscuits."
Kenrya: That's somebody after my heart. Y'all know I love a good fucking Red Lobster biscuit. I don’t even each cheese, but I eat cheese biscuits [crosstalk 00:07:47].
Erica: Killa's voice was made for this shit. Okay. So she's dope. Okay. So thank you for that amazing reading.
Kenrya: You're welcome.
Erica: You did such an amazing job.
Sheree: Unbutton my top button on that one.
Erica: But you wrote it!
Sheree: But it don't sound like that when I read it. Okay.
Erica: That was a good one. Right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: So before we jump into our discussion.
Kenrya: We want to bring in the lovely Sheree. I want y'all to know about this woman. So, oh shit. See, you got that place that's hard for me to pronounce. So you're going to have to fix it when I fuck it up. All right so-
Erica: Oh yeah. The-
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Good Midwestern tongue.
Kenrya: So Sheree is a text-based artist and educator living in Tampa, Florida. And she's a Yaddo?
Kenrya: Ahh Yaddo, see. She's a Yaddo and Ragdale Rubin fellow, Astraea Lesbian Foundation grantee—y’all know Astraea's close to my heart—and is the author of two novels, “Let The Lover Be,” which was a Rainbow Award finalist and the Black Lives Matter-inspired, “A Return To Arms.” She also created a short story collection, “Once and Future Lovers” and a student writing guide called “Stop Writing Wack Essays.” Yes, stop it. They suck. Sheree's the founding director of Kitchen Table Literary Arts. And her work has been featured in literary journals, magazines and anthologies. Her most recent work, “Bars” was nominated for a Pushcart Prize. Y'all please welcome Sheree to the show.
Erica: Oh, shit.
Kenrya: Did you just spill something bitch?
Sheree: Did you spill your drink?
Erica: I spilled a little champagne.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Kenrya: So she's drinking champagne, y'all I'm drinking Pedialyte. I've been fucked up for the last two weeks.
Erica: But she rallied for the night.
Kenrya: I did, but I got the fruit punch Pedialyte. Word to my partner who made a run for me today and got me some more.
Erica: Word to your mother. Well, not your mother.
Erica: To your partner.
Kenrya: To my partner.
Kenrya: Hey boo.
Erica: Hey boo. Okay. So we read this book and instantly fell in love. Because not only is it a beautiful book, but it's realistic. They don't just walk off in a sunset holding hands. And just like... It's some real shit. Like shit happens and we all have to deal with it. So let's start with a quick story synopsis. I'm going to give the synopsis. Y'all know I fuck it up. Tell me if I-
Kenrya: Why don't we let Sheree give the synopsis? Yes. A spoiler-free synopsis because you know-
Sheree: A spoiler-free synopsis.
Kenrya: Because we want folks to read it. And we don't them to be all fucked up because we told them too much. We've be struggling.
Sheree: Yeah, it is. “Let The Lover Be” is about a functional alcoholic who travels to New Orleans to try to stop an ex's wedding.
Erica: New Orleans, baby.
Erica: I have horrible accents, but I'm going to continue them.
Kenrya: I like that you try it.
Sheree: Yeah. That's the story. That's the story.
Erica: Okay. So while she's in New Orleans, she meets somebody and hi-jinks ensue.
Kenrya: Dot, dot, dot.
Erica: Dot, dot, dot. Okay. So y'all just so you know, I'm living my Oprah fantasy because I have cards. I found stickers and put them on the back so I can look official. [crosstalk 00:11:38] I only bring one. We don't have a ton of stickers. So I just did one.
Kenrya: I've got some in my fanny pack.
Erica: If y'all need to... If somebody wants some stickers I might have to pull this off. Because you know, budget. Whatever. Okay. So this particular scene that we read was when the main character Kiana meets a woman at a bar and they fuck. And yeah, she's nameless, faceless. She was just... She was reaching for something and that woman was giving it. She was giving all that should be gave. Do y'all follow Rolling Ray on Instagram?
Kenrya: I don't. I'm sorry.
Erica: See, I have these like niche pop culture references. And because Kenrya is so highbrow-
Kenrya: I know who Rolling Ray... Okay bitch.
Kenrya: I know who Rolling Ray is. Because I was just watching the video today. But I do not follow Rolling Ray. Because somebody said Rolling Ray sounded like Maya Angelou.
Sheree: Oh no.
Kenrya: It wasn't meant to be not a compliment. But I listened to the audio clip, and I was like, "They're not lying."
Erica: Rolling Ray does not sound like Maya Angelou. And that is fucking blasphemous.
Sheree: Does it sound like David Alan Grier doing Maya Angelou? Because that's [crosstalk 00:13:01]. The Kumquat!
Kenrya: That might be it.
Sheree: Fruity Loopies. That's one of my favorite skits. I'm sorry.
Erica: Fucking horrible that y'all would equate Rolling Ray with Maya Angelou, but whatever. Rolling Ray did get-
Kenrya: I didn't do it. I saw it on Twitter.
Erica: Rolling Ray did get recognized by Beyoncé.
Kenrya: Sure did.
Erica: So he's doing a little better than us. And okay.
Kenrya: With a personalized note and everything. See, I saw that.
Erica: I'm proud of you. Sorry, I'm getting distracted by your boobs. But okay. I mean like in a good way.
Sheree: I'm being inspired. I am inspired.
Erica: Okay. So this sexy reminds me of one of my favorite songs. I tried to… [Singing.]
Kenrya: I was like, where are you going with this?
Erica: Okay. So anyway, this scene was like one of those... Where she was just trying to fuck it away. Like right before this, Kiana had some real emotional stuff come up and she was just like running from it. And ran and was like, "You know what? I'm going to fuck it away with this nameless faceless person." And to me, the scene showed that like it was so... Although she was having sex with someone, it was more about her being in touch with herself, and trying to get in touch with these particular feelings. She was chasing a feeling.
Kenrya: I mean it felt to me like she was chasing not having to feel. Like this moment where you can just live in ecstasy. And where that ecstasy crowds out all of the thoughts that are encroaching on you. Like the things that, you know what I mean? The intrusive things, the things that you don't want to deal with when you fucking, and when you cumming, you don't have to think about those. It's like a moment of pure joy. But what you think Sheree? Since you wrote it.
Erica: Since you wrote it, what would you think?
Sheree: So it is both of those things. Because I feel like whenever you're trying to... If you self-medicate with anything, a lot of times you're doing it because you're trying to escape, having to think about certain things. But it don't work like that. So in writing that scene, it's like, "Yes, I just want to fall into simplicity, and not think about all this stuff that's coming up for me since I've been here." But even in that moment, it still pops up for you to keep trying to chase it away. And then it pops up and you trying to chase it away. And so it's this active kind of thing where you can't shake it. That's why it's egging you like that. Because you can't shake it, but you're trying. And so even in that moment of, her second climax is like, "I'm trying not to think about this shit. It's there, but I'm trying not to think about it." And it's like, you can't shake it. When something is really bothering you can try, but you can't really shake it.
Kenrya: That shit be on your back.
Sheree: You can't really shake it.
Erica: So did y'all ever go through a toxic ass period where you tried to blank it away? Like I remember... So I think about like, I went through a period... Multiple periods. My entire fucking 20s.
Sheree: I was like, my 20s, and half of my 30s, maybe. Like-
Erica: Right? And so I've found... I look back at some of the things that I picked up. I remember one time I was like, I was married and just going through some shit. Looking back, I was definitely trying to like pottery away my pain.
Kenrya: Oh you did do pottery.
Sheree: Pottery it away.
Erica: Whatever bitch. It was just one of the things where I was like-
Kenrya: You were taking a pottery class.
Erica: I need to do something with myself. So I ended up fucking taking a pottery class. I literally could go in my storage room right now. I have platters that are shaped like this. Fuck you bitch. You ain't supposed to agree.
Kenrya: It's true.
Erica: Anyway, I tried pottering away my... But I mean, there were also destructive behaviors, drinking too much, fucking, all of that. And looking back, it was just me trying to run from issues that I thought I had resolved, but not really. I just kind of brushed them away. Pushed them down a little bit more. So what about you?
Sheree: I mean, I think I've always tried to write through a lot of what I was feeling. I'm an avid journaler. So I'm always trying to write through what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, what I'm confused by, what I'm hurt by. But even in the writing... And it's interesting because I was just listening to Kiese Laymon on NPR the other day. He's one of my favorite contemporary writers. And he was talking about how writing a book is not therapy. So I was like, "Writing in my journal is not therapy." So you can't write it away. But other than writing, it was primarily sex and drinking.
Sheree: That was how I dealt with everything. It was. Yeah. That was the answer in the moment. And try like Kiana tries in that scene. You could try to forget what's going on. And in some ways it works, you know what I'm saying? So I kept it going for a while. In that moment. That's that concept of now. In this moment, fuck all that shit. In the moment I'm having drinks, I'm having fun meeting people, I'm laughing, I'm being flirty doing all the things that I wish I could do all the time. But not really because-
Erica: Then you wake up the next morning, like, "Who are you?"
Sheree: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That part.
Erica: You got anything?
Kenrya: So I mean, I think the answer was yes, but not in a fun way.
Kenrya: Like for me-
Erica: It's never in a fun way when you think... I mean in the moment it's fun.
Kenrya: But not even... Nope, not even in the moment.
Erica: Oh wow. Okay.
Kenrya: I was prepared to say no. But when I think about it, I think that what I did was bury myself in relationships. People used to call me a serial monogamist. And I used to call myself that too. But I think what it really was, was that I was afraid to be alone. And so I would find myself very quickly moving into these relationships with niggas that wasn't shit. But because I didn't want to be by myself, I was willing to settle for being with someone who quite frankly did not deserve my company. And so it wasn't that I was out here doing fun stuff. It was I was battling with raggedy assed niggas, but it was better to do... To me, it felt like it was better to do that in my 20s, than it was for me to just be alone and deal with my shit. It wasn't until the last few years where I got deep into therapy and working on myself and getting to the point where I was quite happy alone, which allowed me to then be able to be a good partner to someone.
Sheree: I feel like too, that's part of... And I think it's not by accident that we mention this particular time in our lives either, our 20s. Because it's almost like, I feel like you don't necessarily recognize that you might have some deeper issues because if you look around you, everybody's-
Erica: Toxic as fuck.
Sheree: And everybody's sleeping around or getting into relationships and you know, let's talk shit about who you're dating. And fuck them I'm with somebody else now. You feel like that's what you supposed to be doing at the time. And so you don't even know till you start thinking like, "Am I really having fun? Am I really getting through this? Am I really enjoying my life? Am I waking up in the mornings with more regret than I'm copping to?" You know what I'm saying? But that's so hard to see when you're in it. So when you're in your twenties you feel like that's what you're supposed to be doing. And it's like, some of us got some real fucking problems and that's not what we supposed to be doing.
Kenrya: We normalize toxic behavior, right? We've made that what we do. That is supposed to be age appropriate, as opposed to actually sitting with yourself and figuring out your shit.
Sheree: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: That’s old people shit.
Erica: That's foul. But I will say it is great once you figure out your shit and then can be back on that shit.
Kenrya: Absolutely then you have healthy boundaries around bullshit.
Sheree: That part.
Erica: That's why I keep you around. Okay. So just one of the general things about this book is that Kiana wanted that old thing back.
Erica: She got a call-
Kenrya: She sure did.
Erica: ...saying that her ex is getting married, and she was like, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm going to stop it." So, she jumped on a plane, went to New Orleans. Oh wait. You know what? Before I even get there, I don't know if we asked you this. Are you from Chicago? Did you live in Chicago? What's your connection with Chicago?
Sheree: I lived there for graduate school.
Erica: Okay because when you wrote about... So, the main character, Kiana, is from Chicago and you wrote about Chicago and it felt very intimate like you lived it and felt it. Though, I love the way you wrote about Chicago. You could tell that you had a real connection.
Kenrya: That you had a hawk on your back for a while.
Sheree: Oh, yeah. It was there. So, I'm originally from Milwaukee, and Chicago is right down the street. So, I have visited Chicago often but then I moved there for graduate school, and I feel like when I moved to Chicago, I started trying to figure out who I actually was. I left my career in IT to become a writer and I came out while I was in Chicago. I was getting off work one day and one of my coworkers who's a lesbian was like, "I'm going to this party. You want to go? You're gay, right?" And I was like, "Uh-huh," and I knew. I had an inkling because I had been dabbling. So I went, but then-
Kenrya: Hold on. So, you admitted it to yourself or not at the point but not thinking about [crosstalk 00:24:43]?
Sheree: Not at that point. But once I got invited to that party and because, like I said, I had been dabbling, I thought... You know how people, "Oh, you're just a freak or whatever," but it turned out.
Erica: No, I'm going to commit to this.
Sheree: I like this. And so, Chicago was really formative for me in that way. I don't know that I've ever said this publicly, so I'm going to say it on your show, and I'm going to say it live. It's not really a spoiler because y'all already know she'd be getting fucked up. Kiana gets fucked up.
Sheree: So, in the opening scene of the book, she rides the L train back and forth, because she's too drunk to realize where the fuck she is. And that one hundred percent happened to me. That was a real ass story. And it was wild that's what I opened the book with because I found the paper. I had some paper in my pocket that night and I found the little papers because I was writing on the L train or whatever, and I was writing in between.
Sheree: It was so wild to use that scene, and then to also think about myself in that way because I was really trying to disassociate myself from this character. So I'm like, "She is fucked up. She's got some problems." And then, it turns out Sheree, you got some issues and you figure some stuff out for yourself. But that's why Chicago feels so urgent and so real because that was my life. And Chicago was really integral to me finding myself and becoming myself and getting to know myself away from my family for the first time.
Erica: Yeah. That's a big deal. I am another Midwestern girl from St. Louis, and DC holds a special place in my heart because when you get away from family, no matter how much you love them, you're able to figure out who you are, independent of what people think you are and what your family wants you to be and all of that. So yeah. Okay. Do you have a city that's like that?
Kenrya: I think it's DC and New York. Those are the only other places I've lived. I'm from Cleveland.
Kenrya: The whole Midwestern situation going on.
Erica: I love it.
Kenrya: So yeah, no, these two cities are where I became me. Yeah, for sure.
Erica: Outside of the shadow of your family.
Erica: So, Kiana, romanticized the out of her old relationship.
Kenrya: She had that bitch on a pedestal.
Erica: Oh no. “Pedastool” as we say in the Midwest.
Erica: So, I found it interesting how she was really able to... Don't look at my notes.
Erica: Oh, I thought you was looking at my notes ahead.
Kenrya: I'm looking at you!
Sheree: She's active listening.
Erica: My bad. I ain't used to that.
Erica: I ain't got a man. I live with a child. So.
Erica: Anyway. Okay. So, she romanticized all her relationships. The relationship with her mother, she romanticized the relationship with her mom, her ex. She just remembered shit so differently. And then, it made me think about... I remember when I told my son that we were divorcing. That me and my ex were divorcing, and this little boy cried his eyes out. He was like, "But we do everything together." And I was like,
Kenrya: Do you?
Erica: "Do we? What" And it's amazing how you really can build this space in your head.
Erica: And that was a romantic relationship, but even, my father passed away when I was really young, and I still have memories of him as a ten-year-old. It took years of therapy to break those down and un-romanticize them. And I think that kind of helped me become a better person because I was able to then see what was happening. See the full picture of what was actually going on.
Erica: Do you have any relationships that you remember romanticizing, but then it took some time, and the light of day to see it and be like, "Oh. That was some bullshit."
Sheree: Absolutely. And in a way, the theme of alcoholism really plays a part in that. And so, right now I'm working on my next book, which is a memoir. And it's about my challenges with alcohol abuse, through the lens of family trauma and some other things. But ultimately, it's about me reckoning with memory, because if you abuse alcohol, you blackout. And so, all essence of blackouts is lost time and lost memories. And, you get into this space where if you can't fully discern when you're of clear mind and when you've been drinking... everything is jumbled in your mind when you don't have a particular type of clarity. And so, all of those things are always at play with substance abuse where it's like, I remember things, but is this a drunk memory?
Sheree: So, it is built up to be one thing instead of another, or I have this memory and I don't quite know how to place it. Or, this is what I thought about things then versus this is what I think about things now. And, it's such rugged terrain trying to find your way through it. And so, I feel like I romanticized a lot of things. I romanticized particularly relationships with parents, with siblings, with friends where it's like, I remember them being this way. These times were amazing and everything was great, and turns out, not so much. But then, that happens on the other side, too, where you remember things being so terrible, and it's like, "Oh, this was the worst thing that could have happened. This person did me so wrong."
Sheree: And then, you think back on it and it didn't even happen like that. Not really. And so, I feel like that concept of romanticizing and then also painting things worse than they actually are. I feel almost, too, even substance abuse aside, memory is just tricky as fuck. You know what I'm saying? It's all contextual.
Erica: Trauma, it changes.
Sheree: It's like a fun house mirror or something when you're looking at yourself and other people. Everything feels distorted, and you got to try to find your way through it, I guess. But, I was definitely one for romanticizing romantic relationships. I was definitely one doing that.
Erica: So because you romanticized relationships, did you ever double back to an ex out of...
Kenrya: [Massive sigh.]
Sheree: That was the most exhausted…
Kenrya: We have to get off camera for this.
Sheree: Oh my goodness.
Sheree: No, it's funny. I was just talking to my niece. We were talking about our birth charts. And so, I'm a Virgo sun sign, but I'm a Sagittarius moon. And I saw this meme...
Erica: Wait, so you're like... [makes motion of putting things int heir place] But like [waves arms in air] at the same time?
Sheree: I needed to find out my whole chart because I would look at Virgo stuff and I'd be like, "Yeah, that's me. But then a lot of it wasn't. I'm like, what about all this other that I can't? What are you doing? And so, what's funny is I saw this meme the other day on Instagram, and it was a person kneeling in front of a tombstone doing like this. The bottom said, Sagittarius, be like, and I was like "Oh shit." For real. I don't revisit exes. We don't do that.
Sheree: It's been real. So no, I never doubled back on an ex. In terms of romanticizing, I'll be like, "Man, we had some really beautiful memories. We had some beautiful times together." But then I feel like, that didn't work out. Don't go back there.
Sheree: You ended it for a reason. Don't go back. Don't go back there.
Erica: Okay. So, we're going to take just a quick pause for the cause. Do the kids still say that on TikTok, on the Ticky Tok? Pause for the cause?
Kenrya: You watch TikTok all day.
Erica: I know. I haven't seen the TikTok about pause for the cause because, but we're going to take a pause for the cause real quick because bingo has been called by our good friend.
Erica: Okay. So, shout out to you for winning the bingo.
Kenrya: Wait, I didn't get to answer that.
Erica: I was just about to turn to you and ask you for... You have the.
Sheree: She'd never answer that question.
Erica: From the depths of her spirit. Yeah.
Sheree: Deep in the chest.
Erica: Okay. So what had happened was?
Kenrya: No, I'm not going to tell that story. That's a “I need to be drinking champagne” story and I can't.
Kenrya: So I'll start with, I, as we've talked about a lot on the show, Erica and I both are recovering codependents.
Erica: Oh, we're going to touch on that shit in these notes.
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Erica: Keep going.
Kenrya: So, codependency was very tough for me to even hear and then to start to deal with. I remember after I finally got comfortable with the term and whatnot, and had read the book and highlighted shit and was like, "Oh, it's okay."
Kenrya: And then, our therapist gave me that book about when your parents are codependent. Ooh, God.
Kenrya: It made me... I remember I went to the session after I read it, and I was like, "I feel like you're asking me to rewrite my entire childhood." And she was like, "No, you're just adding footnotes," which made me feel better. But she was like, "No, you're adding context to what went on. You're not wiping it out. It's not saying that the things that you felt were not real. It is just helping you to better put them into context," which was helpful to hear.
Erica: So important.
Kenrya: But it was a really difficult moment when I realized that a lot of the ways that I have romanticized my relationship with my father in the absence of a relationship of my mother-
Erica: Oh yes.
Kenrya: Were just not realistic, and were not an accurate reflection of the very fraught childhood that I had. It was not easy.
Kenrya: So there's that. And then with relationships, so, nine times out of 10, I don't go back. I am an Aries.
Erica: Oh, that'd be torn down. She was like, we're going to burn down this bridge, and then we're going to take the ashes and bury them.
Kenrya: And then I'm going to build a skyscraper on top of them shits, so. But, I have one situation where I went back, and it was because it was unfinished business. Right? And, that's because I like to finish business. And so, when that situation closed, it wasn't because one of us had really fucked up. It was just because logistically, it wasn't working out. And so, I revisited, not out of romanticizing, but out of, I want to see where this goes.
Kenrya: I should not have seen where it went.
Sheree: My wife is an Aries. And so, when we were dating, she had an ex like that where nothing really was wrong. It was just like somebody had moved or something like that. And I had said, that's why I love that you said unfinished business because I had said, "I don't do strings. You got some unfinished business. If you got some..."
Erica: Loose strings turn until entanglements.
Sheree: Because if somebody moved or stuff wasn't working out because somebody was laid off and unemployed, and y'all ain't have no real problems, it was other stuff that happened. Then, that means when that thing has been rectified or whatever, if you still got feelings for that person then... You know what I'm saying? It's like, "Oh, we broke up because he moved away." And I was like, "Okay, well what if he come back and be like, Oh yeah, I'm here to move into my momma's house." And now you're like, "Oh, shit."
Kenrya: Don't be looking at me.
Sheree: So it's like that loose ends thing. If you feel like you got an ex that you still have feelings for, I want to know that information. I'll be asking, "Why did y'all break up? What happened?" I need to know the scoop because I need to make... "Oh, well, when she got laid off and when she lost her job, stuff just got real tough." I was like, "Nope. That bitch shows back up with some money, where does that leave me?" You know what I'm saying? So, we don't do those loose ends.
Kenrya: That's a good question to ask. I know what I learned from my situation was that he will say it.
Kenrya: I learned that things really do... I hate when people say things happen for a reason. because they always like to say it after somebody died or something, I'm like, "Fuck you." But, cat's living... Because my situation was living in different cities. Cats live in different cities for a motherfucking reason. Leave that nigga over there.
Sheree: Moral of the story.
Erica: Okay. So have y'all done something stupid in an attempt to save some things, turn some things around, get someone's attention, because going to New Orleans thinking you're going to stop? I don't know what the fuck Kiana thought was going to happen. Stop!
Sheree: You know what she thought was going to happen? This kind of shit, y'all saw on “A Different World” when the Dwayne walked up in his suit. That wildlife song that came out a couple years ago, talking about “Baby, I got plans for you. I had plans for you” or some shit. He was walking up the aisle on the wedding day, trying to look at her eyes and shit.
Sheree: We in story land, people think that shit is right. They're like, "Oh, I'm going to show up. It goes way back to the... I showed this movie to my students sometimes. “The Graduate.” When they get on the bus and we're like, "We out." You know what I'm saying?
Kenrya: There they're like, "Oh shit."
Sheree: I don't know if that stuff happens. I had somebody call me, and I didn't even fuck this dude. It was so wild. So, this dude had called me on his wedding day and had asked me, "If you say, come to Florida, I'll come to Florida."
Erica: Don't put that shit on my conscience!
Sheree: I didn't know what to do. I did not know what to do. It was so wild because it was this weird thing where because we hadn't had sex or anything. We just had this night of talking. And, I feel like sometimes because dudes don't do this thing, everything ends and begins with their penises, that if you're a woman and y'all don't fuck, then something magical happened. And it was like, nothing magical happened. We talked.
Erica: If it was magical, I woulda fucked.
Sheree: We were just hanging out. So, I think about stuff like that. I'm sure that that happened. I'm sure people leave folks at the alter or call things off.
Erica: But, I think also, with that guy's situation, if you're at the point where you call in folks. You, honey...
Sheree: You don't need to be doing it.
Kenrya: It's so interesting because that just shows cats can concoct the whole different version of it. This is what Kiana's whole situation was.
Erica: When she had a conversation with Michelle and they were talking about... The whole book, Kiana is talking about the relationship, and then Michelle comes in and was like, "Bitch, do you remember this? Who are you?"
Erica: When I was a kid, in St. Louis, there's the art museum, and then there's Art Hill, which is where everyone goes sledding. At the bottom of Art Hill, is this pond. When I was a kid, in my mind, we were going down the side of Mount Rushmore into the ocean.
Erica: We might not. We're going to die.
Erica: And I was always an anxious kid, but I remember being a kid out there looking around at these kids laughing and smiling and joking. I'm like, "Y'all out here kicking it. We're going to die. Y'all parents are fucked up for letting y'all do this. We going to die!"
Erica: Girl, I went back about 10 years ago, it is the most gentle slope. And then it ends. And then there's like 15, 20 feet of just flat sidewalk.
Erica: And then there's a lip and then a little pond and if you drop in it will probably go to your ankle.
Sheree: [crosstalk 00:46:10] A little bit.
Erica: Even if you made it, you'd be like, yeah. In my mind, I was like, "We going to die." That's just, your brain be making shit up. Your brain be making shit up.
Sheree: It does. It does.
Erica: So since I asked you that hard question about, have you ever done some stupid shit in an attempt to turn something around or convince somebody... Have you, Kenrya?
Kenrya: I don't know, have I? You looking at me like you know some shit.
Sheree: She turned around like she got an example and she was letting us see if she was going to give that example.
Erica: I was trying to get my deflect.
Kenrya: I mean, I have stayed some places where I should not have stayed.
Kenrya: But I've been cool with some like, "Yeah, this is fine. This is all right," like a fucking dog in the apartment. I have definitely.
Sheree: Oh yeah.
Erica: I'm like, "Dog in a burning apartment? When did you have a dog?" But no.
Kenrya: No I didn't.
Erica: Like weren't you allergic to them? Anyway, my bad... That dog.
Kenrya: I'm not a grand gesture kind of person.
Erica: Oh, I am.
Kenrya: I don't really expect them and I for damned sure don't do them.
Erica: Oh, I love grand gestures.
Kenrya: I'm a little-
Sheree: Have you done something to kind of like, "I'm going to do this then I'm going to turn it around?"
Erica: Here's the thing. This is my Uncle Clifford point from “P Valley.”
Erica: Here's the thing. No, I haven't done any. I can't think of any grand gestures, and I say that because at the end of the day, a bitch got pride, like too much pride. You ain't going to carry me. You ain't going to have me out there looking stupid. I want nobody saying like, "Damn Erica did X, Y, Z," and that is detrimental because it takes a lot for me to put my pride aside to be in a relationship. But I definitely would expect a grand gesture and you're like, "Well, where's the fucking hot air balloon?" and they'd be like, "Bitch. You ain't answer the fucking phone."
Kenrya: Simple. I like plain and simple. I like a good pie. Some flowers.
Sheree: Me too.
Kenrya: I don't think it'll take that much for me.
Erica: I like that too, but I'm going to say it's, I'm a bird, so I like some nice shit too. I like some nice shit too.
Erica: Okay. As we talk about memory and how we tend to conveniently remember, forget things, or add things to our memory, one of the things that was a huge part of Kiana's hot messiness, is that a term?
Sheree: It is tonight.
Erica: Okay. A big thing about Kiana's hot messiness was that it was more like she had this whole life constructed about what happened to her mother. Her mother passed away when she was young. She had this whole idea of what happened and how that looked, and she found out as an adult like, nah bitch. It was a whole different situation and part of it was because her codependent sister. God, we love Karen.
Erica: We love Karen was doing... She was being a big sister protecting her baby sister. But those lies of omission, again, helped kept her from seeing the full picture and like the full idea of what went on so that she was then able to romanticize and all of that. My granny was big on saying, "Look, if you leaving shit out, you still lying." I don't think she said shit. She didn't say shit.
Kenrya: Are you sure? Okay.
Erica: Maybe Granny did.
Kenrya: I was about to say, it's Granny.
Erica: It's Granny. She did. She did.
Kenrya: You leaving shit out. You telling lies.
Erica: So that makes me feel... That makes me want to ask you, how do you feel, particularly in the context of not necessarily a romantic relationship, but familial relationships, like when people leave out certain parts of the story in order to protect members of the family.
Kenrya: What it is?
Erica: Well, wait, sorry. I'll let you think on that, carry on.
Kenrya: No, you didn't finish your question. I was just reacting.
Erica: No, I'm just saying, how do you...
Kenrya: You know my family does that shit all the time.
Erica: Uh-huh (affirmative), you Black.
Kenrya: When my uncle died they didn't even want to tell me. I was living in New York and I saw...
Erica: Sorry, I didn't mean to laugh.
Kenrya: So my dad's the youngest of 15 kids, it's a lot of them. I don't know if they just thought I wasn't going to notice. But like...
Erica: Wait. "Where's uncle so and so?" "Oh he's at the cemetery." "What's he doing at the cemetery?" "Dead."
Kenrya: Somebody accidentally told me and I had to call and be like, "The fuck?" And they were like, "Oh, you got a lot on your plate. You in New York." I'm like, the fuck? That's my uncle.
Sheree: I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh.
Kenrya: It's fine cause they ridiculous. I got a family that like to sweep things under the rug and act like they didn't happen. They also like the gaslight when you bring stuff up and act like you made some shit up, that's a whole related issue.
Sheree: It's very related. It's you know, it's... So there's a couple of different ways to think about honesty. Right? So I read somewhere that in some cultures, you're not supposed to be a hundred percent honest if it's going to cause harm to someone else. So it's like, if I have something that is fuck up and is fucking me up and I want to tell you so that I can feel better, but now you're going to feel worse, then that's not the right thing to do.
Kenrya: That’s like when niggas cheat.
Erica: Yeah, and they be like... ain't going to find out.
Sheree: It's complicated if you think about it in that way, because in some respects if you're holding on something that you did and it's shitty and you're like, it's eating me up. I got to tell you, and it's like, you're doing that for self-release and your own guilt. But at the same time, like I don't... I feel like honesty, as cliche as the shit is, is really the best way forward; to have the information so that you can do what it is that you're going to do with it.
Sheree: And so in that story, like Kiana being quote, unquote, protected from her mother's death, it didn't protect her. It like it made things worse. I feel like that particularly with family secrets, because they're very rarely are things better because you kept this secret. Very rare. Like I... If somebody out there got a story of some people that did not end up in therapy, because somebody had kept the truth from them, show me that person. I want to interview them.
Kenrya: Or should be in therapy, right? Because it's a whole bunch of fucking…
Sheree: I just don't feel like... I feel like you have to... If it's something that's going to affect me, you've got to. If it's something that's going to affect my myself, it's going to affect my family, if it's going to affect us as a family, if there's real ramifications to holding this information, you got to let it out. You got to talk about it. It's just going to manifest into some other shit that becomes less... So I think about in the story, if Kiana had known the truth about it, she might have been able to get help. Her and her sister might've been able to get...
Kenrya: Right? Early.
Sheree: To therapy to deal with the situation, but instead... You know what I'm saying? So definitely tell the truth. Especially, when you were mentioning Erica, talking to your child about the divorce or whatever, it's like, tell the truth and even with kids. Kids know what the fuck is going on. Don't think you protecting them.
Sheree: Come on.
Erica: And that's one of the things that his therapist said to us. She was like, You know what? When you, ...he's seeing that things are changing. You need to say something because if you don't say something to him, then it teaches him not to trust his instinct or not to trust what he sees. And so then he going to be with a bitch that, or he going to be with somebody that's like, "My bad. I ain't mean to do it."
Kenrya: Yeah, or worse he's going to gaslight himself.
Erica: I'm sorry I went to from somebody sucking some dick. My bad. Okay. But yeah. Sorry. Okay. Codependency runs rampant in this whole story. It was codependency between Kiana and Keisha... Kiana and Karen, I then put a whole different character in your story. Between Kiana and Karen. There was a slight codependency between Genevieve and Kiana. Although Genevieve, I love the fact that Genevieve was... She felt herself getting sucked in and was like, hold on.
Kenrya: I was about to say it was more than slight, but she got herself out.
Erica: She was like, "I can't do this shit, and I got to bounce," and I love that.
Kenrya: See I don't want to spoil it.
Erica: Well They don't know what happened.
Sheree: They don't know what happened.
Erica: Or else y'all should have read the book.
Kenrya: Still please read the book. It's called “Let the Lover Be.”
Sheree: “Let the Lover Be.”
Erica: Okay. So, but it's grown... But their codependent relationship grew out of something, and I think that it was... I really liked... I mean, it's normal to see the codependency between partners or in relationships, but I think we fail to examine and point out codependency between siblings because that shit is tough and unaddressed. I think about like with my family I have, it's five of us, and we all baby my baby brother. I mean the nigga is 30 something and I still call him my baby brother. I'm like my baby brother coming and this grown ass man with a beard, they like, "Where the baby?" But it's just one of those things where it's like, he's the baby, we got to protect him. I think we've all gotten a little bit better about protecting the siblings.
Erica: But I love that you highlight the codependency between the sisters. And I even think... I'm trying not to spoil too much. I'll get to the end of the story. But I think that in the end of the story is I think at like past the, the end part of it, I think that actually Kiana is going to be the one helping Karen. Is it Karen?
Sheree: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Karen at the end pull away from the codependency because Karen was definitely, let me protect my sister. Let me take care of her to a point where it was crippling her. Right?
Sheree: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Do you have any siblings?
Sheree: Yes. Yes I do. As you were talking, and I think my baby sister is listening right now and I think my big sister is listening right now.
Erica: My younger brother just passed.
Kenrya: Right before you were talking about him he went [points finger and moves it across the screen].
Sheree: And I definitely...
Erica: I'll probably get cussed out when this is over with.
Sheree: I know for me, it has been a process for me to learn how to be a big sister. Learn how to be there for my younger sister and learn how to be a resource without being a third mama, without being judgmental, without saying, "Well, you should have done this" and even learn how to, I think this is probably the hardest part, is learn how to let the people we love suffer, because there's no lesson in fixing it for her. And there's also no real independence or power in it, if I'm taking care of everything or if momma's taking care of everything or if daddy's taking care of everything. I feel like that happens the most with the youngest child because it's just the position. As a middle child, I've been the mediator for a lot of my life. Playing in between and trying to make sure everybody's good, and that's part of my therapy where it's like, well bitch, what about you? You got to think about yourself. But in terms of, especially with a younger sibling, I really had to... You got to let go. My sister's birthday, her birthday is Tuesday. She'll be... Shit. I'm going to say it out. Fuck it, Tiffany, you can come get me. I don't care. She's about to be 35 on Tuesday.
Sheree: She's 35, like she's not a baby. She's not... But sometimes, and I asked my mom, when you look at us, do you see us like young sometimes? Cause I swear, I look at Tiffany sometimes and I see her little chubby face. And I see the dried tears because something happened or somebody was fucking with her and I'm like, "Where they at?" You know what I'm saying? I still do that. And then I got to not. I got to try to remind myself she's an adult. She is a grown woman with a whole fucking child. Like she is a grown ass woman and she has to make her own decisions and her own mistakes and her own triumphs and go her own way. It's my job as her big sister to be here if she needs me, but not to tell her how to run her life or try to take care of everything.
Sheree: And that's difficult in a family full of women. My mom has three girls. My aunt got three girls, so it's a lot of girls in the family. We take care of each other in ways that we do. We nurture. We take care of each other and it's something we're socialized to do. Anybody is able to be a nurturer, but as girls, we are socialized to be that way. And that plays out in our relationships, and I feel like that line gets blurred. When do you... When are you carrying too much? When are you doing too much? When are you shielding instead of supporting? You got to, I don't know, you got to find your way through that. Not... And I feel like at the end of the book, they will find their way through that. I think it's interesting that you think that Kiana is going to take the lead on that. I think you're right. I think you're right.
Erica: Okay. So as we round the bend here, we're here at the The Turn On, so what do we talk about?
Sheree: I think my mama listening too, so, but she done already heard some shit.
Erica: I was about to say, so I can't ask about the squirting?
Sheree: You can ask whatever you like.
Erica: Yo. First, fucking on the elevator. The elevator lead up. I was like, y'all know I got my horrible story on fucking on the elevator. Well, I didn't fuck on the elevator.
Kenrya: You were having foreplay.
Erica: I was having foreplay on the elevator, but it was at this club in Miami and it literally went from like the first floor to the second floor. We got on and we started making out and went, "Ding!" The doors open and it was a bouncer. He looked at us and we just closed it and went back down. Then came back up and was like, "Ding!" And he was like, "Y'all mother fucker got to get out. Like chill. Like this is bull shit." And then damn.
Sheree: Oh shit.
Kenrya: You done forgot what you was going to say.
Erica: No, I was going to say, I was about to clown Kiana for not knowing her name. But I can’t remember…
Sheree: It be like that sometimes.
Erica: I could see him be like, "hello, sir."
Erica: I'll be like, "And how are you?" He'll be like...
Kenrya: I'm trying to figure out who I was in the car with, when you were in the elevator.
Sheree: It's okay not to remember people's names, especially if you are a sexually liberated individual.
Erica: Yeah. As long as we safe.
Sheree: Think through. I don't do body counts and stuff. Cause I don't. I mean, as long as [inaudible 01:04:05] ... finished it, I really don't give a fuck, but if you try to think through it's some spotty people and you'd be like, Who is that? It was? [inaudible 01:04:21] No. Well, did we fuck? Or did we just... You'd be thinking it through. That's life. As the memory gets further and further away, you're supposed to remember...
Erica: [crosstalk 01:04:33] Exactly.
Sheree: ... Fucking in the nineties.
Sheree: That's 20 years ago.
Erica: So, I remember there was a homecoming, a few years back, I think. And this dude, he was saying what's up to the crew and he was dabbing everybody up. And I'm like... And I was so mean to the nigga. And then a couple hours later, I was like, "I ain't fuck him." Why me? I literally had to go. I pulled him aside later on, I told him again at the club. I was like, "Yo, my bad. I just... I thought you was somebody else." He was like, "Damn, I missing out, now."
Sheree: These things happen.
Erica: Okay so, the squirting you wrote it so poetically in that, it was it wasn't like. It was like.
Sheree: Is this showers?
Erica: It was a mist.
Sheree: Shower of love.
Erica: Also how you roll...
Sheree: A mist.
Erica: Well, one thing that, I wrote this down, "these times of complete abandon that Kiana felt most secure." That just felt beautiful. I know it wasn't supposed to be maybe? But it just... That's what I searched for when I'm having good sex. I want to get so lost in the sauce that it's just like a warm Cheddar Bay biscuit. I'm a fat bitch.
Kenrya: I mean they're delicious. Now they’ve come up twice on this episode.
Erica: I know. Yeah. I just loved the scene. Although, it was not... The circumstances weren't ideal. The sex in and of itself was written beautifully, and we always comment. We always say this, how part of the reason on this show, while we want to highlight the sex scenes, are because this is a part of who we are. We don't want like the Hallmark movie.
Sheree: Wake up and that's like...
Kenrya: No, we want all of that really doing our makeup, full winged, and get up and whatnot.
Erica: I remember when Mrs. Maisel did that.
Kenrya: That's some white people shit.
Kenrya: I just want to be seeing Black people. Yeah. No.
Erica: [crosstalk 01:07:35] beautiful.
Sheree: That kind of abandon though...
Erica: What were you going to say?
Kenrya: Go ahead.
Sheree: I was going to say that kind of that abandon, that freedom, I feel like that's like essential to good sex is like...
Sheree: It's like you got to let yourself go. You can't be in your head. I mean, I don't know the unnamed woman's situation, but I do know that even how you respond sexually has to do with your comfort. And you're willing to just like... You got to be comfortable in your body. Be comfortable with the sounds you're making the feelings you're feeling, everything. And that's when sex is at its best to me. When you can really just let go and be in that moment. And it's not related to how much you love a person. Cause that's, I mean it can be, but it also doesn't have to do with that either. It can also be in this particular moment with this particular person at this particular time and space, I'm about to just let it all go.
Sheree: And I feel like that's independent of whether or not you're all googly eyes at the person or not. Because you could choose that for yourself, irrespective of the person, and just be like, this is the way that I have sex. When I have sex, I just be free. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, in that moment the sex had to be good because that's what it was about. It was about just letting go. We don't even know each other's names, but it's about to be lit. Like we bout to get it in.
Erica: Litty like a titty!
Kenrya: And I think the anonymous nature of it, especially because Kiana is always so much in her head and has constructed all these stories about what her relationship means, her old relationship, that she's trying to get that old thing back. The fact that it is anonymous helps her to stay out of her head. It allows her to be able to go to that place where she's not thinking about what this person thinks about her. She's not even thinking about her fucking name. She just sees light. There's beauty in that.
Erica: That's beautiful. So, I used to hate morning sex because I have this thing about breath, because honey I wear a retainer at night, I brush, but it just it's bad. I used to hate morning sex, but…
Kenrya: You came over to this side?
Erica: Girl that thing be marinating overnight like a little...
Kenrya: What did I say?
Erica: It's like a baked potato when you wrap in aluminum foil, then you cut it open and it's steaming like.
Kenrya: Wait Sheree.
Erica: We love Sheree.
Erica: He be like... cut the foil and be like...
Sheree: It was the gesture for me. It was the baked potato when she went, like a baked potato.
Erica: Girl and now I'm like. But it has to be good enough for me to get out of my head and get past the fact that my breath stinks and all of that. So anyway. Yeah. I'm sorry, I've been converted to morning sex, because that thing be baking like a potato overnight.
Sheree: You all remember that Martin stand up? He said the pussy marinates at night. Then he said you wake up, it would be all crusty and he said, everybody's voice sounds… Good morning…
Kenrya: Good morning to you.
Erica: I don't know. [crosstalk 01:12:08] whatever you need.
Sheree: Even driving to work like, you're gonna have a good day.
Erica: And orgasm just like we interviewed a guest and she said she masturbates every single morning and I don't do it every morning, but I have started doing it in the morning, more often in the mornings. And I do have a little... Blues are brighter, the sun's a little brighter.
Sheree: It's like, no matter what else happened that day, you had an orgasam. Like I came today. So it's like, whatever else [inaudible 01:13:07] Okay.
Erica: Well that wraps up this portion, this portion of the episode. So now, we're about to move on to our next segment which is called...
Kenrya: What's Turning Us On.
Erica: I have to make her say it. What's turning us on!
Erica: Okay, so what is turning us on? Okay, so we found out about this company called Foria.
Kenrya: We had already been using Foria products.
Erica: Yeah, so Foria makes CBD products. So, I think our first episode we titled “What, What in the Butt?”
Kenrya: Yes we did.
Erica: And we liked to talk about a little backdoor action also are good [inaudible 00:05:04]. So Foria makes these really cool suppositories, they are CBDs suppositories.
Kenrya: Yeah. And they are delightful.
Erica: They're delightful. So you can use them for...
Kenrya: I used them for a couple of different things. So, you can use them for... [crosstalk 01:14:22] So, Foria, one of the ways that they now have their product line organized is they have like relief, they have healing, and they have like intimacy are the different lines. But I use the suppositories for both.
Kenrya: I have dysmenorrhea, which I think I've talked about a few times on this show. And so I only have my cycle a few times a year. I use pills to skip it because my cramps are debilitating. Like use a TENS machine, I take a whole bunch of meds at the same time. And I use the suppositories, insert them into your vagina. It helps to kind of loosen up all your muscles so that the contracting of your uterus is not quite as painful. I start my day with these before I even get out of bed, I lay there for 15 minutes, let them get up in there. And it helps to bring my pain level down before I start my day. But the other way that I use these...
Erica: Okay, keep talking, I'm going to put the music behind it.
Sheree: Are you going to do more gestures?
Kenrya: She probably will.
Kenrya: Oh my God. So they're really great for anal. You put them in the refrigerator first so that they are a little less malleable and you just pop them on up in there. Let it marinate for a little bit. And it just kind of...
Erica: Loosens everything up.
Kenrya: Because you've got two sphincters in there, it helps to loosen them up.
Erica: Yeah, because the first one is fine. The second one is [inaudible 01:16:13]
Kenrya: And if you are having sex with a strap that is on the larger side or whatever you are implementing, because we had a whole conversation...
Erica: About stunt dicks, versus... There's weenuses, stunt dicks, and then big dicks.
Kenrya: Yes. But there's also straps of various sizes. There's things around your home that you can use. Like we were talking about pervertables and the pre-show and the VIP room. There are things that...
Sheree: Can you just explain real quick what pervertables are? That's my favorite word today.
Erica: Pervertables are just ordinary household objects or any object that can be turned into a sex toy. So I had my little cocktail strainer, stick this in the oven stick this in the freezer or fridge, make it a little cold and then it becomes some sensual, sensory something. We can use candles, what else do we say? Ice cream [crosstalk 00:01:17:23] we had a vacuum for a wine...
Sheree: Suction that pulls the air out the wine. Makes you feel some things [inaudible 01:17:39].
Kenrya: So if there are any of those things that have a flanged end on them so that they are safe to insert anywhere.
Erica: Yeah, don't just, you will lose things.
Kenrya: The point is that there are lots of things that you could safely put in there. And if you need to make more space, because you are using something that is on the larger side, and you still want to make sure that you are having pleasure and that you are not numbing pain. Cause numbing things like that are not great. You need to be able to know…exactly pain is a signal. These are really good just for loosening up things, not for numbing any type of pain. So those are a couple of the things. And I've been using these for quite some time. And it was dope that Foria sent me some more to try out ahead of the show as well. What else did we get from Foria?
Erica: We also got these CBD drops. And again, yo, like we had a tech check this morning and, Erica, I was like "CBD drops!" [inaudible 01:18:36] and like 20 minutes later, I was like...
Erica: Anyway, these joints are it. They're nice, and just relaxing. They calm you down without you being like stoned or high or anything. And I am really, I know this sounds really fucked up, but I don't like bad taste in my mouth. I don't like bad taste things taste good...That's what she said. The drops are made with coconut oil. It has like a orange kind of taste to it. But it's not strong. It's just like a...
Kenrya: But if you're someone like me who has a tree nut allergy, you should forego those. These have some coconut. Okay. So I really want to try the tonic, but I cannot because I did not want to go into anaphylactic shock.
Erica: So last, bath salts. These are not the bath salts that make you eat people's faces. Our good friends in Florida.
Kenrya: I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to say it...
Erica: They have CBD and lavender. So they are good for you to just...
Kenrya: So yours is the wellness line, right?
Kenrya: So yours has lavender. Mine is the intimacy line.
Erica: Oh, shit.
Kenrya: Yeah. So mine has cacao? Is that how you say that it's supposed to get your shit, you know?
Erica: This is the universal sign for loosen that shit up.
Erica: Opening the baked potato.
Kenrya: It has [inaudible 01:20:37] root, cacao, spearmint, organic rose, peppermint, [crosstalk 01:20:43] it’s got rose petals. So it's got this peppermint I haven't had a chance to use this yet because like I said, I've been sick and not able to do things that are luxurious, like baths, but I can see it’s got this peppermint and spearmint. Probably get some little tangles, bring some blood to the surface.
Sheree: Have ya'll seen that TikTok thing when you're like, why is it spicy?
Kenrya: I do not know what you're talking about, oh my God.
Sheree: I'm sorry.
Kenrya: If y'all are interested in any of these products, we'll add this to the event. No, I think we can do that. But also we'll add it to the show notes. When this goes up on our website and we have links directly to get these products
Erica: And we have a discount code. I think it's like 10% off?
Kenrya: Oh, I didn't know that.
Erica: I should have researched that, but anyway, so with that said. This has been a great!
Erica: Sheree, you were like legit, like play cousin.
Sheree: I know...
Erica: You can get with us when the world comes back up you going to come up or maybe we'll come down to you.
Kenrya: I'm not going to Florida. I'm sorry.
Sheree: Damn, you had to make that face too. And I just…
Kenrya: I just need cats to take what's happening seriously. You know, when it's safe.
Sheree: Florida ain't, like people talking about like, oh, curfew. In Tampa Bay, we had a curfew for three days before they canceled it. They put the curfew in effect, our mayor did. And then the city council threatened the mayor with a lawsuit and shit. And then it was like, okay, just playing. And so then stuff being closed, like shit is not closed. It ain't been closed. There were limited hours for a minute. And there were caps on numbers of people, but people in their establishments have to enforce it and they were not. So, Florida has not been shut down in any real way. And that is one of the reasons it is a hot fucking mess COVID-wise down here. They just out living their life just regular.
Kenrya: That makes me sad.
Erica: Well, in a 2023 when life opens back up, we'll come down and visit.
Kenrya: And we don't always do episodes of the show in sequence. So we have already interviewed Sheree for the show where we do an interview where we just dig all in your business.
Erica: And we talk about the sisterhood of the... We need like a Midwest sign, like the power of the Midwest. "Captain Planet, he's our hero..."
Sheree: Like do something Midwest-y on your merch. Cause I have like two things in my cart right now that Imma get, but think about something Midwest-y for the merch.
Erica: Like catfish and spaghetti. I don't know how we'll make that into a... [crosstalk 01:24:22]
Sheree: I would buy a t-shirt just saying catfish and spaghetti on it because we...
Sheree: Thank you for having me. I just, I don't know. I adore you all so much and yeah. I love y'all podcast. I love the conversations y'all having. It's just, it's fun. When I listen I'm laughing out loud. I'm thinking about my life. I'm telling my, my wife like, “Oh my God, you got to hear this part.” I love the podcast so much. So it's like being on it feels kind of fan girly. So it was like anything y'all were asking, I was going to be like, yeah, I was going to make it work. Like whatever y'all say I was going to make it work. So thank you so much for having me, I had a good time. I love talking with y'all and thank you so much.
Kenrya: Oh, so wait before you go tell people where they can find you.
Sheree: You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. I signed up for Twitch today just cause I was watching these DJs weren't so it's on there.
Kenrya: I just signed up for Twitch today so I could watch today.
Sheree: So I'm following. But like, last week there was a 24 hour. It was the day of the election. It was like a 24 ]-hour DJ thing, and it was all women DJs and it was Monica Ray Simpson. It was for artists for Black women's reproductive health. I can't think of the name. I'm going to find a name and I'm gonna with y'all. He's doing amazing work. Her name is Monica Ray, she just had like six women DJs that was like, fucking it up. It got me through the day. It was so great. And so I signed up for a Twitter, all that to say all of my shit is Sheree L Greer on everything. So Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, Facebook. My website is ShereeLGreer.com. Just keep it simple.
Kenrya: And that's S-H-E-R-E-E-L-G-R-E-E-R. So make sure y'all go and follow Sheree. Pick up a copy of “Let the Lover Be.” Show the people the book. Yes. Both of them. And so we'll have links for those in the show notes as well. And they're in our Bookshop.
Erica: And please buy from your local booksellers.
Kenrya: Black booksellers if possible. Yeah. And that wraps up our very first live show.
Sheree: Y'all like it live?
Kenrya: It was fun. We'll do this more often. Thank you to everyone who took time on their Saturday to spend it with us. Until next time we are Kenya and Erica…
Erica: Two hoes makin' it clap!
Kenrya: Two hoes makin’ it clap!
Erica: I always try and she never does it!
Kenrya: I mean I was kinda trolling you this time.
Erica: Two hoes makin' it clap!
Kenrya: Two hoes makin’ it clap!
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support the turn-on and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live, become supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions, and follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram at @ TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read from "Bittersweet" by Christina C. Jones and talk about hard-won orgasms, shaking free of perfectionism and teaching kids that being an asshole is not a healthy way to express love.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Friends, homies, lovers, niggas, and bitches, welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. This is your hosts, Erica and Killa, two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: That's us. I really like that all of those terms were completely non-gendered.
Erica: Because of course.
Kenrya: Niggas and bitches.
Erica: Niggas and bitches. So, this week we are reading “Bittersweet,” which was written in 2019 by our good friend, Christina C. Jones. So, sit back, relax. Get your wine, get your weed, get your whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Bittersweet” by Christina C. Jones. I was getting my whole entire life to the Temptations' version of “Silent Night” when a knock at the door interrupted my damn falsetto. I'd only heard it because of a break in the music, and was tempted to simply ignore it until I realized what time it was. Late. I frowned as I grabbed the remote to turn the music down, then checked my phone to make sure I hadn't missed a call with some kind of emergency. I had not.
Kenrya: Annoyed, I walked up to the door, peering out of the peephole to see who it was. Royal. "What the hell do you want?" I shouted through the door, not exactly keen on answering for him since there was no telling what else I might end up opening without a wall between us. "I'll say it to your face," he called back. Ugh. I unlocked and opened the door, but didn't unlatch the chain. "Fine. Here's my face. What do you want?" He held up my abandoned gloves, hat, and scarf, all articles I'd sorely missed when I fled his presence at the coffeehouse. "I was going to just leave it all outside your door, but you've got the whole building jumping right now. So, I figured you were up."
Kenrya: "Didn't you close tonight?" I asked. "It's almost one in the morning, and you just had to bring me this stuff?" Royal shrugged, his movement somewhat camouflaged by his own cold-weather protection. "Don't you open the shop tomorrow? Can't have you walking to work cold." I stared at him for a moment, then unhooked the chair, opening the door wide enough to actually take my things from him. "Thank you." "You're welcome."
Kenrya: He peeked past me into the apartment. "You've got it looking pretty festive in there, and sounding like a party. You're expecting company?" "No." He leaned against my doorframe, one thick eyebrow lifting on his entirely-too-handsome face. "Would you like some?" I opened my mouth to give him the "no" he likely expected before he even asked, but it wouldn't come out. Whether it was my heightened emotions, or the alcohol, or goddamn Ariana Grande singing Wit it This Christmas in the background, but what actually came from my lips was, "Sure. Come in."
Kenrya: It shocked both of us. His eyes went wide, and hell, so did mine, but I stepped aside to give him room, and he stepped in, taking off his coat. "Do you want anything to drink?" I asked, once he'd stashed his coat, hat, and gloves, and was just standing in my apartment looking at me like I was what he wanted to quench his thirst. "Sure," he shrugged. "I'll have whatever you're drinking." I nodded. "Well, it was eggnog, but I finished the last of that. I'm on to spiked hot chocolate now." "The one from Guilty Pleasures that we use at Urban Grind?" "Duh."
Kenrya: I grabbed a mug from the cabinet, then went to the stove. "I made a whole pot." He didn't say anything against it, so I filled his mug halfway, then poured a generous shot of bourbon into a separate glass. I handed him both to let him regulate his own liquor intake. He poured half of it into his hot chocolate, and the rest down his throat without flinching. "It was a little rough tonight," he explained, handing me the shot glass back. "We got slammed right before closing. Great for profits, but not so good for the staff." I chuckled. "Yeah, I've had more of those nights than I can count, but looks like you survived it though."
Kenrya: He took a long sip from his mug and nodded. "Yeah, I made it out pretty okay. And I got invited inside for a drink? Oh, I'm good now." "Don't read too much into it," I told him, shaking my head. "It doesn't mean anything." "Like that kiss didn't, right?" "Yes, exactly." I moved out of the kitchen to retrieve my own mug, which I'd left on the coffee table to answer the door. I wasn't surprised that Royal followed me, nor was I surprised by his over-familiarity in making himself comfortable in my space. "Make yourself at home," I said, bringing a grin to Royal's face before he took a long sip from his mug. "Don't gotta tell me twice."
Kenrya: He reached up, hooking an arm around my waist to pull me down into his lap, only my most valiant effort kept me from spilling my drink all over both of us. "Dude, what the fuck?" I screeched, turning to him with furrowed brows. He shrugged, his face way too close to mine. "You told me to make myself at home, meaning get comfortable. I can't speak for you, but this is comfortable as hell to me." "Yeah, but..." "But nothing," he interrupted, shaking his head. He'd already put his own mug down, and now he took mine, stowing it beside his. "Don't tell me this doesn't feel good. Doesn't feel right."
Kenrya: I let out a sigh, but I couldn't really front. It did feel good. One of his arms draped around my waist, the other hanging comfortably over my thighs. It was cozy. My lack of an answer must've been answer enough, because Royal moved in kissing my neck. Immediately, my eyes fluttered closed, and I silenced all the blaring alarms in my head as his hand slipped between my thighs. "Just straight for the goods, huh?" I breathed, barely, as the sensation of his fingers sliding over my pussy through the fabric of my leggings. "We've danced around it long enough," he grunted into my ear, using his free hand to bury in my hair, and turning my face toward his.
Kenrya: "Let's get to the point now." Anything I might've had to say got swallowed with a kiss. He invaded my mouth first, his hot tongue licking and exploring until he found the right pace. I turned myself so that I was straddling his lap, giving both of us better access to what we wanted. Then, he slipped his hand under the layers of my leggings and panties, dipping into the space between my legs. His grip on my hair kept me in place, kept me grounded as he pushed his fingers into my pussy using his thumb against my clit to offer a throb-inducing pressure. "You are really wet," he murmured against my lips, casual as hell as if I wasn't on the verge of tears from how good it felt to be touched like this by someone else.
Kenrya: "How do you want me to make you cum?" "What?" I shivered as he ran his tongue down my throat, then licked his way back up. "Fingers? Mouth? Dick?" He offered, explaining his question as succinctly as possible as my hips began to involuntarily rock against his hand. I closed my eyes, letting my head fall back as I basked in the feeling, hypnotized by the pleasurable friction of his fingers. The hand that was in my hair, he pushed underneath my sweater, quickly discovering my braless state. My back arched against him as he plucked my nipple, pinching it hard between his fingers, no relief from the pressure as he brought his mouth back to my ear to ask his question again. "Fingers, mouth, or dick?" He growled, and I whimpered in pain and pleasure as he squeezed me harder.
Kenrya: "All of the above," I moaned, and the low rumble of his laughter in my ear almost made me come unglued. "Good choice." He pressed his thumb against my clit, flicking it back and forth as his fingers plunged deep, harder. His kissing and nibbling on my neck got reckless, and I didn't care about whatever marks might be left behind, only the feelings, only the orgasm.
Kenrya: After that first one, Royal wasted no time stripping me out of my clothes, with my Christmas mix still playing in the background. Right there on my couch, the same one he'd spent the night on, he spread my legs open wide greedily eyeing my pussy like he couldn't wait to dive in. He used his thumbs to spread me apart, getting his face close enough to take a deep inhale before he looked up, meeting my gaze. I damn near launched off the couch when he put his mouth over my already-sensitive clit and sucked hard. My hands gripped the cushions as he devoured my pussy, hands gripping my ass cheeks to keep me in place.
Kenrya: He didn't hold back, slurping, and licking, and fucking me with his fingers again as he commanded another orgasm out of me. And then, he wasn't done. Panting, and only half-awake, I laid back and watched as he stripped in record speed, only stopping to retrieve a condom from his wallet. Just as I'd suspected, his dick was beautifully thick and more than enough to have me squirming underneath him as he pushed into me as far he could go. From there, it was on. He hooked my leg over his arm and leaned in to get close as he stroked me. Deep kisses and deep strokes that had me dripping wet and moaning his name with zero reservations. Just bliss.
Kenrya: Eventually though, he sat up, pulling me up on the arm of the couch and hooking both of my legs over his arms. His feet were on the ground firmly planted as he started stroking me again, faster this time, and harder. Faster and harder. Harder and faster. So fast, so hard that I couldn't even hold myself upright, I just fell back, letting my upper body rest on the couch cushion as he plunged into me. I was so glad the building was empty because there was no chance my neighbors wouldn't have heard me crying Royal's name.
Kenrya: Laying back on the couch like I was offered a whole new, deeper angle of entry, and Royal took full advantage, slowing down to give me deep, careful, steady-paced strokes that had me feeling like I'd finally discovered life's meaning. Thighs shaking, heart racing, chest heaving, I was already fast-heading over the cliff, and then he started playing with my clit again as he moved, adding another layer to what was already too much. It felt too good, and I'd drank a little too much, and I was so tired from what he'd already done, but it was so good.
Kenrya: "Fuck, Anika," Royal groaned, stopping just long enough to pull me back into an upright position, and releasing my legs to lock around his hips. He took my mouth with his again, even though we were both out of breath and panting. "You're going to come for me again, right? You've got another one in you, don't you?" I shook my head. Even twice was an anomaly that had only happened when I was by myself, and that shit always put me straight to sleep. "I don't know. I don't think-" "Nah, I need you to give me another one," he interrupted, growling the words against my lips as he buried himself impossibly deep, holding there for a moment before he pulled back.
Kenrya: "I've been good to your pussy tonight, right?" "Yes," I whimpered, nodding as dick-induced tears started streaming down my face. He'd found exactly the right spot, and somehow he knew it. He was pressing into it, sending my nerve endings reeling as I throbbed and contracted around him. "Then you can give me on more," he spoke into my ear, then grazed my earlobe with his teeth. His hands gripped my ass as he finally pulled back, giving me a moment of respite from that intense spot before he stroked me again. "Cum for me one more time." "I want to, but I..."
Kenrya: He slammed into me, hard, and I completely blanked. For a moment, there was nothing in the world except me and Royal's dick pushing directly into a button that had to be labeled "Instant, Overwhelming Bliss." And the button was stuck. I couldn't even begin to explain the intensity that ran through me at that moment, sustained by the sudden arrival of his orgasm making him pump into me as he growled into my neck. My fingernails dug into his skin, keeping my tenuous grip on reality until that other worldly feeling passed, allowing me to collapse onto the couch and slide backward, my feet still propped up on the arm as my hands fell uselessly to my sides.
Kenrya: With a deep, satisfied breath, Royal dropped to the floor in a place where his head was close to being in line with mine. I think the goodness of it all had us both a little shaken up, because neither of us said anything until finally, Royal broke the silence between us. "So, can I call you Nik now?"
Erica: Welcome back.
Erica: So, that was an excerpt from “Bittersweet” by Christina C. Jones, which was written in 2019. Kenrya, do you want to give us... It don't even sound right calling you Kenrya. Killa.
Kenrya: I know. Every time I call you Erica, I'll be like, who the fuck is that?
Erica: Who is that? So, do you want to give us a synopsis of the story? Okay, I will.
Erica: Oh, you got it?
Kenrya: Yeah. So, there's Anika. She is the-
Kenrya: ... manager of Urban Grind, a coffee shop slash hangout spot in this book, which is the center of the workplace romance that develops. As it starts, we-
Erica: Can I interrupt?
Erica: So, one of the interesting things about our girl, Christina C. Jones, is that she writes a lot of books. We'll interview her next week, and y'all will hear that. She writes a lot of books. So, Urban Grind is a part of this-
Erica: ... community. Yeah, this town. So, Urban Grind is mentioned in other books, these characters are mentioned in other books, but this book is about the goings on of Anika, our homeboy, and Urban Grind. Sorry.
Kenrya: Yes. What's our homeboy's name?
Kenrya: Royal, yeah.
Erica: Royal. Wasn't that in-
Kenrya: He sounds like he's going to be a dick.
Erica: Wasn't that in... Whatchamacallit? Okay, disclaimer, y'all, I've been drinking.
Kenrya: She sure has.
Erica: So, this episode may be just a little off, but isn't that the one... The La Royale with Cheese, wasn't that in “Coming to America”?
Kenrya: No, that's in “Pulp Fiction.”
Erica: Oh, shit. Nevermind. Okay, continue. Fuck. My bad.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's the John Travolta-
Kenrya: Yeah, him. And I'm not drinking. It's the John Travolta, Samuel L. Jackson scene about what do they call it in other countries? Blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
Kenrya: Anyway, Royal. So, Royal is the cousin of the owner of the Urban Grind. He's basically pushing him to do more at the spot. He wants to make him an assistant manager or co-manager, some shit. Anika.
Kenrya: Yes. So, she's busting her butt, and then also having to deal with his ass messing with her stuff in her store, and calling her outside, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is absolutely a friends to lovers situation. I mean, enemies to lovers situation. Because she hate that nigga in the beginning of the book, she hate him. Like for real, for real hates him.
Kenrya: It's clear that he likes her. He's trolling her. He's always trying to get under her skin because he obviously likes her. Some things happen. They maneuver, they spend time around each other because they're forced to, and sexy hijinks ensue.
Erica: Hijinks ensue. If that's on your bingo card-
Kenrya: You got it.
Erica: ... check it off. Okay. Remind me to write that on more bingo card.
Erica: All right. So, this is our classic enemies as lovers trope. It made me think about while I was sick, I recently had another procedure, and Killa and her daughter felt like it was a job to keep me out of trouble.
Kenrya: It was.
Erica: But bigger than that, I dismissed Killa after a few days.
Kenrya: She did.
Erica: But her daughter woke up every morning and was like, "Let me go sit down there with her." So, one day we were sitting down here talking. She's a little girl. I have a little boy, and he, my boy, don't tell me shit. He's like a safe, he's like a clam. He don't say shit. Her daughter, on the other hand, runs me all the gossip. So, I'm sitting there, getting all the gossip, all the gossip about the school and everybody. I ask her, I say, "Hey, do you have a little boy that likes you or anything?" I said, "Do you have someone that likes you?" "Yeah, this boy likes me, but he's always mean to me."
Erica: I instantly thought about when I was little, how they'd be like, "Oh, he likes you. That's why he's mean to you." I was like, "Ooh, that's-
Kenrya: I hate it. It's a set up for dealing with assholes.
Erica: Yes. So, I was like, "Well, if he was a really nice person, he wouldn't be mean to you," or something like that. But it was not the-
Kenrya: The typical [crosstalk 00:19:09].
Erica: The typical, if he likes you, he's mean to you. Because I hate that, and I feel like women are drawn to that because-
Kenrya: Because we're conditioned to think that it's an if-then situation. If he's an asshole, then he's into you. No, nigga, he's just not into you.
Erica: He's a fucking dick.
Kenrya: He's a fucking asshole, and either way, you shouldn't be messing with him.
Erica: But I feel like guys are also conditioned to be assholes as a way to get your attention. It's like, if that's what you think is how it's supposed to happen, then I ain't the woman for you.
Kenrya: It's just a terrible ass cycle. You gotta get yourself out.
Kenrya: Good job saying that to her.
Erica: Oh, yeah. I don't remember exactly what it was because I'm, one, drunk. Two-
Kenrya: You were also medicated.
Erica: ... medicated, but I definitely remember being like, "Oh, no, let's stop this right now."
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:19:57].
Erica: So she don't think that it's cool because a little boy is pulling your pig tails, he likes you. Because that is a time in which she's supposed to turn around to him and be like, "You're acting like a little bitch." Side note, yesterday, I had a doctor's appointment with a new oncologist. We're sitting there and making small talk, and she's like, "Yeah, I have a 10 year old, but she's on punishment right now." I was like, "What did she do?" "She told one of her little guy friends that he was acting like a little bitch." I was like-
Kenrya: I was like. I don't see anything wrong with it. Was he acting like a little bitch?" She was like, "Yeah, he was."
Erica: Which is something with parenting, it is so hard to keep a straight face when your kids are doing some bullshit.
Kenrya: Because sometimes it's just funny.
Erica: Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's real as fuck. But it's like, just because this is your real reaction, don't mean that we have to put it out there.
Kenrya: You can hold it in and then call your girl, and laugh about it [crosstalk 00:21:02]
Erica: Say, "This little boy acting like a little bitch."
Erica: Call your auntie, and tell me that he acted like a little bitch, and I'll be like, "Cool, we're going to roll up on him and throw some shit at his house." Okay. Did you have that experience as a young tot with little boys pulling your hair? How did you process that?
Kenrya: I don't know that I ever... If I did experience dudes be an asshole to me as a kid... Matter of fact, I can think about that I probably did, and it wouldn't have even registered with me that they liked me because you're not about to treat me like that.
Erica: You're a dick.
Kenrya: Yeah. I was the one who was always fighting boys. So, if you was going to treat me in any kind of way, then we was fighting.
Erica: Her name is Killa for a reason.
Kenrya: Yeah. So, maybe they liked me, but we never got that far.
Erica: See, I had this little boy in school, and he liked me. He was mean to me at first, and I was like, "I don't know what the fuck's wrong with him. This little boy is just mean. He picks on me and nobody else." My mama would slick me down with Blue Magic, my little pigtails. I had a favorite style; two in the front, one in the back. He would always pull my little pig tail, and it was the fucking worst. Then, I realized he liked me, because I want to say in the third or fourth... it had to be fourth grade... he touched my butt one day.
Kenrya: Oh, no. Too soon.
Erica: Bitch. Let me tell you how this little boy touched my butt. We're going to get back to the story. But anyway, he touched my butt, and I wrote it in my diary. I literally fucking walked-
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:22:44].
Erica: ... around for years thinking somebody's going to break in my diary and see this little boy touch my butt, and they're going to think I'm having sex. It was one of them like, "Oh, my God, we're about to... the world is about to end because this little boy touched my butt." But it should have been-
Kenrya: I'm going to jump off this cliff of conclusions, and fall forever.
Erica: Girl, talk about a spiral. I was like, "Oh, my God, they're going to think I'm pregnant." It was bad. Because this little boy touched my butt. I mean, whatever. But I think at that point, I realized I like sexual contact.
Kenrya: You were like, "Oh, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about this."
Erica: I was like, "Oh, this is forbidden, do it again." But anyway, I think it's really good that we stop our girls and our boys... we stop our young people in their tracks with the whole they're mean to you because they like you. Because that's some absolute bullshit. I think also it teaches us how to not be honest about our feelings and our emotions.
Kenrya: Yes. That it's okay. That that's standard, and that's how it should be.
Erica: Yeah. I think it's difficult for young people to jump out there and say, "Hello, ma'am, I'm really feeling you." I get it. We ain't saying you gotta do that, but we also ain't saying that you have to find some-
Kenrya: Poke me in the back of my fucking head.
Erica: Yeah, some horrible outlet for these positive emotions and turning into something negative. I think the fuck not. Because let me tell you, you mean to my baby because you like him-
Kenrya: Exactly [crosstalk 00:24:30].
Erica: ... I'm coming to whoop on your ass.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:24:33].
Erica: My child, Killa's child, I don't care. We're whooping on asses. I drive a big truck, and I own a lot of black.
Erica: Sisterhood of the crazy mamas. Okay.
Erica: So, one of the first scenes in the book is when Anika, she spends all this time... One of her roles at Urban Grind is to do social media. So, she spends all her time mapping out how their social media's page is going to be. This is how it's going to look when you go to Instagram and see all the pictures on one page, that kind of thing. Then, this nigga, Royal, comes in and posts this picture, and it drove me fucking crazy.
Kenrya: Oh, my God.
Erica: I say that-
Kenrya: Not just the picture, a fucking selfie of himself.
Erica: Yeah. It was some narcissistic shit.
Kenrya: And some bullshit.
Erica: Then, what pissed her off is that the picture... It was a complete thirst trap, and it caught all the honeys. Well, the honey caught all the bees. So, now she's like, "Damn, I can't take it down, but now I got to deal with this blot in my situation." But it was clear that Anika is very much perfectionist, and does not want... She had shit planned out in her head.
Kenrya: She had a vision.
Erica: A vision. We got a girlfriend that always got a vision.
Kenrya: Yes, fucking up her vision. We do. Hey, girl!
Erica: Hey, girl. He fucked up her vision. I think that it was kind of good that he... One of the things that I enjoy... not that I... well, I guess I enjoy. One of the good things that I got out of my marriage was that I am a... Well, let me not say that now. I used to be a perfectionist. Everything had to be in a particular way. Why are you looking at me like that?
Kenrya: Because you're still... You have gotten better.
Erica: I was about to say, I know you ain't talking.
Kenrya: Pot, kettle, tree, apple.
Erica: Yeah, no, I've gotten better too, but I'm also still a perfectionist. Yes. I'm a lot less of one.
Kenrya: You're a perfectionist in recovery, as am I. How about that?
Erica: Can we say that I'm like on step 12, and you're like on step six?
Erica: Because I'm truly on some like, "Fuck it, it'll figure itself out," and you're like, "No, we need to keep trying," which is good because-
Kenrya: But here's the thing, you can't pathologize... There's a difference between being a perfectionist and being a professional, right?
Erica: Okay, bitch. Burn, bam, bar, whatever. Yes. Because I was going to say, if it was the Erica school of thought, y'all niggas would be getting a podcast every... when the spirit hits me. When the spirit hits me. Can I tell them about Saturday?
Kenrya: What have we done on Saturday?
Erica: Nothing. So, Saturday morning-
Kenrya: Oh, yeah.
Erica: Saturday, I forgot... So, Saturday we set up a recording. We were supposed to do an interview Saturday. I just got a new phone, somehow my calendar got fucked up, and I did not have the interview on my calendar. So, I woke up, I ate an edible, and I was high as giraffe pussy. Killa stops down and she's like, "Okay, I'm going to go upstairs and get us ready for the interview." I was like, "Bitch, I just ate an edible, ain't no fucking way I'm going to be able to do this damn interview." Thankfully, my lack of perfectionism, professionalism, whatever, worn out and we were able to reschedule, because girl-
Kenrya: That was good because I did not feel like recording anyway.
Erica: Y'all would have been all jacked up because Erica, this recovering perfectionist, baby, that would have been a whole situation. So, yeah, I am a lot more, "Fuck it, we'll figure it out," whereas Killa is more, "No, we committed to it. Let's do it." Which it takes all types because... it takes both kinds to produce this shit.
Kenrya: Yes, that is very, very true.
Erica: Not this shit, this podcast.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:29:02].
Erica: But I recognize that my perfectionism was fucking up relationships. Not even just romantic relationships, but just relationships in general, because I always had an idea of how I wanted something to play out in my mind. Like, "This is going to happen this way," and I'll get so fucked up if things didn't go according to plan. It would just throw off everything, my mood that night, everything. It was just the worst. I'm happy that I'm in recovery because I'm now able to let shit ride, let shit slide, and also just appreciate...
Erica: So, old Erica would have definitely... Well, old Erica probably wouldn't have popped an edible at fucking eight in the morning.
Kenrya: Whatever time in the morning. Yeah.
Erica: But I definitely would have been really fucked up. It worked out, we were able to reschedule, and I laid around staring at the ceiling for the rest of the fucking day.
Kenrya: Yeah, [crosstalk 00:30:04].
Erica: So, how does your perfectionism affect your relationships?
Kenrya: Well, so what it used to affect... the way that it used to affect me was more big picture. So, not necessarily "This is how I wanted this day to go," or that kind of thing, but more like, "This is the plan that I have for my life, and this is the way that these things are supposed to go. So, I am supposed to graduate undergrad this time, start grad school, finish, get into a relationship, be together for this number of years, then get married, then be together for this amount of time. Then get pregnant." All of this stuff. I had this whole fucking life planned.
Kenrya: For the most part, I did actually work the plan, but the problem was that my shit imploded, and it was really a reckoning for me to understand that you can plan whatever the fuck you want, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't guarantee you happiness. It doesn't bring you joy, it doesn't necessarily. And that you can put everything down to the tiniest little bit in terms of what your plan is going to be, but it doesn't guarantee you anything. That was a really difficult thing for me to learn.
Kenrya: Because getting divorced and all of that, it was a wonderful decision. It was exactly what I should have done when I did it. I should have done it before that. But that wasn't tough, that part wasn't difficult. Separating from my ex-husband wasn't the hard part, emotionally, whatever. It was the fact that I had had this plan, and my plan had failed, and that I needed to come up with a new plan.
Erica: Do you think that you look back and you're like, "Okay, now I need to recognize that having an outline is good, but..." I think this is why I'm so against a list, because I don't want to be so set on the list that I miss out on everything else. I don't want to be so caught up in, does this hit the list, that there's something that's not on the list that I should have been looking for that was a red flag.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's like going to the grocery store and realizing that you need some ketchup, and it's not on your list and be like, "I can't get it, it's not on my list."
Erica: Exactly, exactly. So, yeah. That's definitely how I was in terms of perfectionism. Also, you can't think of everything. I am the type of person where I have plans A through Z, I definitely have plans A through Z, but then plan 12K star, asterisk, exclamation point shows up, well, problem star exclamation point shows up, and I am like, "What the fuck?" So, I've learned to ease up on this perfectionism and just make a plan to just wing it some... not wing it, but like, "We'll fill this out. We'll figure it out as we go along."
Kenrya: Yeah. I think what happened with me is I swung the other way. So, I went from, "Oh, I've got this plan," to, "Oh, I don't have a plan at all." I refused to plan because it felt too stifling. So, for like two years after my divorce, I just felt very unmoored. I refer to it as a time of transition. In some ways, I realized it in the moment, but really I got it once I had decided that, "Oh, okay, I'm ready to start figuring out what's next." I wasn't writing. I didn't write any books during that time because I just didn't feel-
Erica: You didn't?
Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative). I didn't write any books during that time. I had put out two before then. I just stopped because I didn't feel like I could devote that amount of energy, or that amount of time because once you start writing a book, you're on like a two-year trajectory. I just didn't feel like I could dedicate myself to anything like that at that time, because I wasn't in a space where I could plan anymore because my shit had fallen apart.
Kenrya: I realized, in hindsight, that I had moved a couple of times, I didn't put my art up anywhere. I didn't turn any of the houses where I was living into a home. All of that was a manifestation of me not feeling like I could create any plans. A lot of it mostly was probably just I didn't trust myself.
Erica: But I don't think that there's anything wrong in having that period.
Kenrya: No, I think it was useful.
Erica: Yeah, I think-
Kenrya: Because therapy also loomed really large in that time, and it helped me to get to a place where I could trust myself and did feel like I could start if not creating a life plan, plotting some points I wanted to hit along the way.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I think about coming out of divorce and coming out of just shit, I definitely had a period where I was just existing, just kind of wherever, whatever. I think most women coming out of divorce go through that where they all know bald head, hoe shit. Bald head, hoe shit. FYI, as soon as the outside opens back up, I will be on my bald head, hoe shit. Anyway, I think it's valuable having that period where you're not just like bam, bam, bam, what's next.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:35:38].
Erica: Because you have to just... it allows you to just feel and figure things out. Because when I was going through that period, I learned a little bit more about myself, and what I like to do, what I'll deal with, what I want. So, I definitely think that it was definitely the complete swing of the pendulum. Because I'm the type of person, I have routines, this is what I do on this day, this is what I do on that day, and that kind of stuff. They ain't do none of that. It was like I'd wake up on a Saturday and be like, "Who's house I'm going to go sit at and not do anything?" But I think it was valuable. Looking back, it taught me a lot.
Erica: Okay. So, this story is based during one of my favorite times at a year, Christmas. For me, I'm not even really big into Christmas day. It's just the season leading up to it is just so special to me. I love getting the tree. I love decorating. I love blasting all my Christmas Black music, and making my son untangle lights with me. It's just...
Erica: So, Alexis... Is that her name?
Erica: My bad.
Kenrya: As she takes another sip of her drink. I wish I could drink though, they look really good.
Erica: They are. Anika really resonated with me in that sense, where she was really into Christmas, but at the same time, there was a lot of change happening in her family. So, she wasn't going to be able to do Christmas the way that she normally did.
Erica: I really struggled with that for a while, especially with a child, because with my family, Christmas is a big... well, with my family, particularly when my mom who passed away five years ago, Christmas was a big deal. Yeah, it's been five years. Christmas was a big deal. We would do all of the things, and then we'd go to granny's house on Christmas morning, open gifts, and have brunch, which was like breakfast thanksgiving. It was just a really big deal.
Erica: So, living here in the DC area, so far away from everyone, forced me to reevaluate, how does Chrimas look? I call this Chrimas. It caused me to reevaluate how Christmas looks. I'm still trying to figure that out, me and my son. We do a little different every year, and some things stick, some things don't, but I thought it was really nice how Christina made that a part of the story. Because Anika, her family was really big into Christmas. She was really big into Christmas, but this year, her mom and daddy was like, "We're going to go on a cruise." Her mama was pretty much in so many words like, "I'm going to be dicked down on Christmas day, and you figure that shit out." [crosstalk 00:39:06].
Kenrya: Remember we were supposed to go on a cruise for Christmas last year?
Erica: Bitch, we were like-
Kenrya: Thank God we didn't go.
Erica: We had in our head, like we're going to take the kids on a Disney cruise for Christmas, and our asses would've still been stuck out at somebody's-
Kenrya: In somebody's [crosstalk 00:39:19] in Florida. Thank God we didn't go.
Erica: Oh, honey, look at God. Look at God. Look at God.
Erica: With our family, holidays are a big thing anyway. It's funny because we recently had the 4th of July... I don't even call it Independence Day, it's 4th of July.
Kenrya: Because who's independent?
Erica: It's literally 4th of July. The negro holiday of barbecue-
Kenrya: Fireworks and barbecue.
Erica: ... and fireworks. Killa just laughed because she was just like, "I love that you enjoy this holiday as much as you do." Part of it is just because it's a family thing. So, even here, we went and bought a whole bunch of firecrackers. I woke up on the 4th of July, overhearing my brother telling my son, "Well, you know it ain't the 4th of July if you ain't worried about losing an appendage." I was like, "Oh, so we're doing that out here too?" But anyway, so, I'm like-
Kenrya: You indoctrinated my child into fireworks because we had never done it. You know I mean my shit.
Erica: She literally came over and was like, "You got some more fireworks?" And made me pop the last of the ones we had.
Kenrya: She was really sad when she came home on the fifth, she was like, "Did they do fireworks without me?" I was like, "Yes. Yes, they did. But you also had been doing them with your auntie for more than a week. It's okay." I was like, "That's why I did them ahead of time. It's okay."
Erica: Yeah. It's one of the things that we do. Now that I'm older, I look back, and I think about how I felt as a kid. So, I always want to replicate that with my son. So, yeah, we do it, and I hope he looks back finally and be like, "Me and my uncle wake up super early and go outside, and pop fireworks while he was drinking beer, and grilling." I hope that your child thinks about it the same way, like, "My mom would drop me off at my Auntie Munch house, and we would just pop fireworks, and I watched her get drunk," or whatever.
Erica: I thought it was really great how she brought in the Christmas aspect of it all. I noticed with you, Killa, you're not quite that way. Even the holidays that are your holidays are like your holidays because you're like, "We ain't going nowhere. We're going to watch movies."
Kenrya: I am a little lone Wolf. I don't know. I like to... I don't know. I like to be quiet. I like to use holidays as a time to just be peaceful and not be running around. Probably because when I was a kid, we would spend them running from house to house, like grandma house, auntie house, other auntie house, uncle house. We would have to do the rounds and see everybody, because all my family was still in Cleveland. Now as an adult, I want to do the exact opposite. I just like to stay in my house. I don't want to be bothered.
Kenrya: That's not always true. Like we did Christmas Eve at one of our friend's house. I like stuff like that, small groups where we can just go and be somewhere, and the kids can play, and the adults can play. We can pass around fat babies and stuff like that. That's fun to me in small groups that don't involve a bunch of strangers. Because you know how I feel about strangers. Because even their friend I liked them via strangers, but at this point, we know all those people, so they're not strangers no more. But I like to chill. On the 4th, you saw me for two seconds when I was leaving to try to go get some food.
Erica: Well, it works out because your child is a lot like me and my family in a sense where she's like, "It's a holiday, I'm going to put on an outfit-
Kenrya: Turn up.
Erica: ... and we're going to turn up." So, she can just skid out on her little tail on over here, and do that.
Kenrya: Usually, to bring it back to Christmas, and part of, I think, why I've become a little bit more entrenched in this with regards to Christmas is that, typically, my daughter goes with her dad on Christmas. So, Thanksgiving is my holiday. We may have an agreement to say she's supposed to switch, but fuck that, it's mine. So, she's with me all day Thanksgiving, everyone understands and respects that. We watch musicals. We bake pies. We eat our not traditional meal.
Kenrya: Yes. Or fried fish, or something. Then, for Christmas, we do one gift on Christmas Eve, we do gifts in the morning. We do have tradition where we get breakfast.
Erica: We all go to breakfast together.
Kenrya: Then, she goes to her dad's. So, it's always just been a respite for me. I like to spend a day laying around and not doing a whole lot, and watching movies. [crosstalk 00:44:20] that day.
Erica: Yeah. See, I feel like kids... This is because this is how I grew up, but I feel like Christmas, you're supposed to see all your cousins and show them your toys, you see their toys, that kind of thing. Because my kid's an only child, and all of our family is in another place, I usually spend Christmas morning playing Beyblades or learning how to do some Roblox activity, or something like that.
Kenrya: Then that spills over into brunch, and then my kid goes on her own. But that's why she goes, because my ex-husband's family is here.
Erica: They're being-
Kenrya: So, I want her to have that experience. Yeah. I want her to be with her cousins in somebody's basement all day, and that kind of thing.
Erica: Yeah. Well, my child will be somewhere smoking hookah and tipping in some bartender if he was spending it with his daddy.
Kenrya: Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: So, yeah, there's that.
Kenrya: You know your audience.
Erica: Because we're The Turn On one, let's talk about the sex. I'll be very honest, I couldn't read too much of this sex scene because baby, this pussy of mine is like this. It is dry, and dusty, and there are cobwebs in this motherfucker. This quarantine has been so horrible with my [coupap 00:45:57]. My coupap has just been... Anyway, this was a great sex scene. I couldn't read too much of it because honey, I read it and just start it, and then I pull out Jerome, and then I'd fall asleep. I'd be like, "Oh, shit. [crosstalk 00:46:21] my phone."
Kenrya: Does that mean Christina did her job?
Erica: Yeah, she did her job very well, but I thought it was really cute. The scene that you read, when they first had sex, I thought it was really cute that it was like, "Oh, you left your Bobby pin here and I need to make sure you get it because you're going to need a Bobby pin tomorrow morning."
Kenrya: Right. So, let me in.
Erica: Have you played those games?
Kenrya: It just makes me think, again, you still haven't fucking watched “Love Jones.”
Erica: And I won't now.
Kenrya: Come on, B. I just want to come up and talk. It's a classic line, and you don't know it.
Erica: I've experienced it, not down... No, mm-mm (negative).
Kenrya: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Definitely not coming from me because I'm very direct about sex.
Erica: Hey, come put that dick over here. Swing that dick this way.
Kenrya: My partner, the other day, I went and gathered materials and threw him on the bed. He was like, "Really, bitch? Is this your game?"
Erica: I get hit in the head with a bottle of lube, and that's it?
Kenrya: I literally threw lube, and a toy, and a towel on the bed. He's like, "Oh, this is your game?" I was like, "Listen, I asked you how you wanted me to approach if I needed to warm you up, or if I could just say it or whatever. You said you didn't care. So, this is what it is today. Let's get it." That's all I had.
Erica: You didn't need a warmup, I'm telling you. So, yeah, I don't have time to pussy foot around this pussy.
Kenrya: Exactly. I'd be tired, so let's get it before I fall asleep. This is really the thing. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. Okay. Well, I have done that bullshit, and I have... I don't even want to say I've fallen for the bullshit, but I recognize the bullshit and be like, "All right, come on."
Kenrya: Let me just go ahead and... Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Yeah. I left my durag at your house. All right.
Kenrya: Sure. Come on, come get it.
Erica: Yeah, I definitely... I miss having to sleep in my durag.
Kenrya: That might've been a thing at some point when I was living in New York, once I was not in long distance relationships maybe. I don't fucking know, the 20s are blur.
Erica: Bitch, yes. Bitch, yes. Yeah. But I just thought, I was like... This is why I love this story because Christina uses really... you can tell she's writing for us. She has really great dialogue. She has really good just situations and scenarios that-
Kenrya: It just rings very true.
Erica: Yeah. It's just like, yeah, I'd done that, I've experienced it, I'd seen folks do it. Like, "Ooh, you left his box top. I know you care about your kid getting... his school getting him 73 cents." "Okay, I'm drunk on my way home from the club, but I'll get an Uber over there to make sure you get your box top." 15 minutes later...
Erica: Also, Royal... First, can we just go back a pulse, a beat? Let's go back a beat. Okay. First, this nail is driving me crazy. I slammed a door and my nail fell off, but now I'm embracing these press-on nails. So, I have bright fluorescent orange nails.
Kenrya: I really like them.
Erica: Nine of them.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's okay. That's okay.
Erica: But I talk with my hands, so I keep seeing this nub. It's like sexy, sexy, sexy, nub.
Kenrya: You gonna find somebody who loves that nub.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, he can come... Anyway, let me quit. Honey, I'm so hard up for some sex. Okay. Royal was fine. She wrote this... I could just see him being fine.
Kenrya: Yeah, I see him in my head too. But I'm so annoyed by him that I can't even lean into the fineness.
Erica: He was such a... I think he realized that he struck a nerve with her. So, he was like, "Oh, I struck a nerve, and that's where it is? I'm going to plug that motherfucker every time I see you."
Erica: So, yeah, he was a jerk. See, this is me falling for the brainwash or the patriarchy. I'm like, he was annoying and a sweet, come put your tongue in my pussy kind of way.
Kenrya: No, he aggravated me, but I got it. Eventually, he is able to say how he feels, and blah, blah, blah, and not just be the little boy pulling her pigtail. So, I guess. The problem is I would have never got there.
Erica: You would be like, "Okay, I'm done." So, this fine nigga had her cumming. Not once, not twice, but three times a lady. Was it three times?
Kenrya: Yeah. She was like, that was impossible because she couldn't even really get... she could barely get two on her own. So, the idea of hitting three with this raggedy nigga...
Erica: Do you have multiple orgasms, or are you a one-and-done kind of girl?
Kenrya: Oh, no, I'm a-
Erica: Is this too personal to ask?
Kenrya: No, I can't stop. I just keep cumming.
Erica: I have baby ones, and then I have like a monster one, and my hair will grow like three inches, and then I will be like... The thing is-
Kenrya: So, I have a monster, and then I have babies, and then the babies have babies, and [inaudible 00:52:20] you're a grandma by the time it's all done.
Erica: Yeah. I have like... Because the thing is, my monster one usually finishes it off. Because by the time it's the monster one, I'm sweaty and spent, and like, "You saw I was cumming, if you ain't felt like it was your time..." It's like Double Dutch. "Nigga, you had an opening.
Kenrya: Jump in.
Erica: "If you ain't feel like you needed to jump in, then...
Kenrya: Sorry for you.
Erica: "... sorry. You should have saw it coming."
Kenrya: That's funny.
Erica: So, I did this class, and it was called the 15 myths of men and sex, or 15 myths men believe about sex.
Kenrya: This is part of your sex educator...
Erica: Yeah. It was very binary. I will begin with that, but one of the things that they noted was that... There was this guy, he wrote this book, and had asked guys all these questions about sex. It was like this in-depth... See, I need to work on explaining shit to people because this is my explanation. So, it was this in-depth study about men and sex, and asking them tons of questions. But the guy that taught the class, he was like, "I'm really interested in these questions about men, and sexuality, and attraction around other men." Does that make sense?
Erica: So, he talked about how like in sports, this is supposed to be so hetero, but they're always patting each other on the butt when they get naked in a locker room, that kind of thing. Like Circle Jerks, and shit like that.
Kenrya: The shit that some people like to call homoerotic, but it's just another natural expression of-
Erica: Of sexuality. So, one of the things... So, they interviewed a bunch of men, and one of the things that man said, and I might've said this on the podcast before, men are so worried about making sure that women cum that when a man sees a woman having an orgasm, then they can let go and be like, "Oh, okay, my job is done. Now I can enjoy myself." So, knowing that now, I'm even more like, "Look, bro, I came about two, three times before my big mama cum comes." Big mama cum comes.
Kenrya: Take advantage.
Erica: So, you saw it come once, and I kept going, that's the Double Dutch going... You saw it come again. Look, if you don't jump in and get yours before mine comes, I'm about to pack these telephone wires away and go home. Did y'all used to play Double Dutch with telephone wires?
Kenrya: We sure did in the street with no shoes on.
Erica: Because they're the perfect-
Kenrya: We Black at the end of the day.
Erica: They're the perfect...
Kenrya: Except if you didn't to get hit because some shits hurt.
Erica: Some shits hurt. Also-
Kenrya: Yeah, and I was never good at Double Dutching.
Erica: I was about to say the same thing. I was never going to Double Dutching. We should do that one day.
Kenrya: What? Double Dutch?
Erica: Just go outside and play.
Kenrya: Bitch, I could barely do it when I was a kid. I can jump.
Erica: Yeah, we should just go outside and jump rope. We're '80s babies. I remember they used to show them videos of the Black girls in Harlem doing a Double Dutch competition.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), and the high socks and little shorts.
Erica: I'd be like, "Damn-
Kenrya: Now I feel bad.
Erica: ... we ain't got this culture in St. Louis."
Kenrya: We used to jump in the street in front of my granddaddy house. Like I said, no shoes. You would wrap the cord around, behind your back.
Erica: Yeah. I could turn because-
Kenrya: I'd turn.
Erica: I didnn't want to be left out. I just couldn't jump. I'd be like, "Doug, you jump. Just keep giving me the tea. Now what did I say about that boy?"
Erica: Okay. I'm sorry. So, back to orgasms. Look, you did have your chance to jump in. If you ain't trying to jump in, when this last one come, I'm done."
Kenrya: Wait, Once you come, you're out? You don't keep going?
Erica: I come a lot, but once I get-
Kenrya: Once you have your-
Erica: ... my big one, nigga, I ain't no good. I'm going to lay there, and I'm going to let you... if you feel like you need to, but you gotta be comfortable with fucking a fish because I'm over here like-
Erica: ... boneless. Call me Chili's because I am a boneless chicken nugget, wing, whatever.
Kenrya: I don't understand the reference.
Erica: Chili's has the boneless wings. But anyway, or call me BW3s, whatever. Anyway, you got what I'm saying. Yeah. I take my ball and go home. I remember I was having a threesome and like, nigga, I came so hard, and I was like, "All right, y'all have fun. I'm going to go fix something for me to eat." They was like, "Damn, you took your ball and went home?" Nigga, read the room. You should've been like, "Oh, things are about to happen. Let me get mine." If you didn't, not my problem. I'm such a selfish lover.
Kenrya: Maybe it helps because of the order of mine. So, we had the big one, and then this like after... well, they're not aftershocks. They're their own full on orgasms. I don't know. Yeah. Once that's come, I just keep going. But I usually need a bit of a... just let me breathe for a second, and I can keep it going.
Erica: Okay, you don't fuck fat guys. I do.
Kenrya: I do not.
Erica: Bitch, I've had... Girl, I be like, "Nigga, you gotta get up off of me." I try to understand because I'm not really into holding my own body weight up either. Nigga, I get it, but we get to a point... I need to stop drinking. We get to a point, I'm like, "Look, bro, you gotta figure this shit out because you're too heavy for all it is." How did we end up here?
Kenrya: I don't know. Oh, Lord. I don't remember.
Erica: Well, speaking of fucking fat guys and laying your body weight on a nigga, let's turn to our segment called, What's Turning Us On?
Kenrya: Oh, I was like, where the fuck are you going with this?
Erica: Okay. So, for this segment, we always like to talk about something that's turning us on this week. Something that we like to use around sex, eroticism, romanticism. So, Kila, you take it.
Kenrya: Sure. So, what's turning us on this week is the Liberator Wedge. I remember seeing it for a long time. It would come up when I would do various searches for various things. It's always advertised on the sites. But it never felt like, okay, it's a wedge, I got pillows. I don't know, one day I was just looking for some things to, "Oh, maybe we could do some different positions, or we could... this kind thing." I felt like, "Oh, maybe a wedge is good for changing it up." Because sometimes just the slightest little variation of an angle can mean a difference between you cumming in two minutes and you cumming in 20 minutes because-
Erica: Also, I don't like fucking on my pillows.
Kenrya: Yeah. Because especially if you're sweating, that pillowcase is not enough of a barrier.
Erica: You literally got like just a pussy sweat socked pillow. Continue.
Kenrya: Exactly. So, one of the things that I like about this wedge is that it has a removable fabric, like a pillowcase. It's easy to get on, it's easy to get off. So, you literally use it, it gets wet, that's okay. You take it off, you toss it in the washing machine, and you put it back on and it's good as new. Because it's so thick, the actual pillow itself doesn't get wet. So, there's no clunkiness.
Erica: No juices.
Kenrya: Yeah, no lingering juiciness. It's just really good for, I think, making slight adjustments. We don't use it very frequently. But if you're in a space where... I've taken this to hotels before where it adjusted the bed height to where I needed it to be.
Erica: Wait. Y'all travel with this pillow?
Kenrya: We travel with a lot of stuff.
Erica: I definitely have my dick kit. Especially when I'm on some bald head, hoe shit, bald head, hoe shit, and I'm traveling, I got my shit, but it's a small compact-
Kenrya: This is a car trip.
Erica: ... discrete bags. Still, I cannot imagine pulling up-
Kenrya: It has its own little case.
Erica: ... to Howard Johnson's, to the HoJo's with my-
Kenrya: We ain't in no HoJo. But this is when we went to that resort. Anyway, it has it's own little case.
Erica: Oh, yeah. I'm like, "Resort?" Yeah, that resort. Okay. Yeah.
Kenrya: I don't think you would really necessarily know what it was. It crunches down. It's discrete as it can be, you know what I'm saying? Whatever. [crosstalk 01:01:53].
Erica: Who fucking cares? Yeah.
Kenrya: But yeah, it's good for making small shifts and for visibility.
Erica: I could see you drawing a picture in your mind.
Kenrya: Yeah. So, if you are someone who has ever wanted to get into a different position and had trouble holding yourself up, it can be really good for folks who have disabilities that make it hard to hold their body weight up.
Erica: It would also be good for filming.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's why I said visibility. Yeah. It'd be really good for increasing visibility for various things. Also, even if you don't have trouble, if you lean over it, it could be really good for holding you up for any type of a rear entry position, that kind of thing. Then they have various sizes, and you can put them together like building blocks to hold up various parts of your body. I think it's a really good disability tool, but it's also a good positioning for anybody who wants it or needs it. I really enjoy it. I like that it's easy to clean.
Erica: Yeah, that's always key.
Kenrya: Exactly. So, y'all can find information about that on our website in the show notes for this episode. You can click the link and purchase your own.
Erica: Yes, please. Okay. So, with that said, I think that wraps up this episode of The Turn On. This is Erica and Kenrya. Two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: Two hoes making it clap.
Erica: We did it the same time the first time, but it wasn't loud.
Kenrya: Bye, y'all.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get on. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win one of the things that's turning us on. To enter, just post your review and email a screenshot of it to email@example.com. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today, and you'll access lots of goodies, including The Turn On book club, and two-for-one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions. Follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod, and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Bye.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.