LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube
CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON
Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon
On Episode 8 of The Turn On, we read from "Fire Baptized" by Kenya Wright and talk about our experiences playing with fire (bka being friends with exes).
The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. Today, we're going to read from “Fire Baptized,” by Kenya Wright, which was published in 2012. Sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get your whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Fire Baptized,” by Kenya Wright. An hour later, I lounged on my bed encased in a fuzzy purple robe. MeShack was positioned behind me, moving his fingers across my scalp. He'd promised to do my hair after my shower. "I wouldn't bet money on Larry being the murderer." MeShack applied beeswax to the root of my dreadlock and twisted it. "It might not be him."
"I'm ignoring that comment." I'd told MeShack everything, leaving out Zulu and Ray's monster forms. My bed wobbled as he rearranged himself at my side. His long legs barely gave me any space to sit. Two silver and turquoise pixies used his toes as jungle gyms. They climbed through them, chasing each other and laughing. He wiggled his feet and growled, and they jumped in the air, flapping their turquoise wings.
"I just don't want you to think you're safe when the killer could still be out there," he said. "Larry couldn't be..."
"Drop it, MeShack." I just wanted to relax and forget about tonight. The scent of lavender caressed my nose and rivaled the sharp smell of beeswax. All fifty candles were spread around the room. Some were placed on my bookshelf, dripping wax onto the plum carpet. Others hovered over my bed by Easy-To-Do suspension spells that I'd shoplifted from Witch-Mart.
Proofreading MeShack's essay, I put a red slash over two words. "What did you mark?" MeShack stopped rubbing his fingers through my locs.
“I'm not going to read this if you question every revision I make." I hid the pages against my chest.
“You'll proofread it or I won't do your hair."
"Hey, I'm doing you a favor, too. It's 1:00 in the morning." I turned to the next page. "And I've had a rough night."
"He didn't admit to killing her."
"What?" I reread a sentence.
"The Larry guy never said he killed her."
Sighing, I turned to the last page. "Just leave it alone."
"Just don't let down your guard." MeShack pulled my dreadlocks into a ponytail. "I'll walk you home and to your classes. You should let Ray continue to guard you."
I got queasy at the mention of Ray's name. "I won't need his services."
"Stubborn ass," he muttered under his breath.
"Narcissistic fur ball."
MeShack snarled, putting the beeswax on my dresser. I wrote down comments at the end of the essay and set it on my nightstand. He prowled toward my bookcase and scrutinized the pile of library paperbacks I'd checked out two days ago. He held one up and read the title. "Dating Yourself and How to Woo You. Are you really reading this?"
"No." I let out a nervous laugh. "Please, put it down."
"Tonight is the night, when you've taken yourself out for the second time." MeShack read the sentences that I'd highlighted. I covered my face as he continued. "Don't be nervous, because you're going to rock your world. Play your favorite music. Pour yourself some wine."
"Okay, give it to me." I jumped off of my bed, holding out my hand, when he kept reading.
"Remember, you're making love to yourself. No spell condoms necessary." I sent flames to his arm and put them out when he dropped the book. "Have you made it to second base with yourself?" He examined his scorched arm as it healed, then chuckled.
"That's none of your business."
He blurred toward me. Suddenly, his face was an inch from mine. "I'm more than willing to handle your needs." He leaned in closer. His lips touched the skin around my brand, making me shiver.
I tilted my head away. "Thanks for the offer, but I'm not interested."
"I miss hearing you scream my name." He tugged at my robe's belt. "And how you would take me in any position and push me over the edge."
I avoid his eyes. "I'm tired and I want to go to sleep."
"Just one kiss." He wrapped his hands around my waist, and I sent fire to them. Hissing, he jumped back, shaking the flames away.
"No kissing." I headed to my bed. Damn it. I should have let him do my hair on the couch.
He stood a few feet from me and licked his lips. His eyes went to predatory mode, following my every movement. The gold flecks in his eyes gleamed. I was going to have to burn him again. I could see it in his eyes. Were-cats and their constant need to poke and bat at things. Sighing, I took off my robe and climbed into bed. He noticed I was wearing one of his frat shirts and grinned as if he'd won a major competition. Out-freaking-standing. I turned off my lamp.
"Are you dismissing me?" MeShack jumped on my bed and the headboard hit the wall. "Stop. You're going to wake Ben."
"He's in my room, sleeping." His face glowed within the candles' light. "I can hear him snoring. Don't worry." Humming, he rearranged his head on my pillow, and I glared at him. "Fine. You don't want me to touch you, but I'm sleeping in here tonight," MeShack said. "Ben sleeps like a symnocardium sac..."
"What does that even mean?"
"The double-walled sac in Shifters that envelopes the heart and attaches to the breastbone. It constantly reshapes so it won't crush the heart and..."
"No. Please stop. I can't take it anymore." I covered his mouth, and he gently bit my hand. "I put Ben at the top of the bed. Ten minutes later, his head is at the bottom. The next hour, he's hanging off the edge." MeShack pulled off his jade pajama pants, exposing chocolate briefs that wrapped around his muscular thighs like skin. "Plus, he pissed in the bed. He sleeps with you tomorrow night."
"No way. You volunteered for this week." I extinguished all but three of the candles and slapped his hands as he tried to take off his briefs. "And you're not sleeping in the nude."
"Prude." He sucked his teeth.
"Can you play with my hair until I fall asleep?" He poked his lips out and unraveled his braid, and kinky curls fell around his shoulder.
"What do I get out of it?"
"I'll take two weeks of dishes."
"Deal." I buried my fingers in his curls, and silk surrounded my fingertips. He closed his eyes. Lilac filled the air. "Damn it, MeShack. You used my shampoo without asking?"
"You always steal the high-end stuff." He scooted closer to me and turned around. "Not that I approve of your thievery."
I stroked his scalp in a circular motion. A loud purring erupted from his throat. The bed vibrated. I giggled and slid my fingers to the area behind his ears. "You really think Larry isn't the killer?" I asked, trying to concentrate on something else besides the heat radiating from his skin. It was smoother than I remembered it. I squeezed my thighs together to calm myself down. Sex with MeShack would be too complicated. Be careful, Lanore.
"I don't want to talk about Larry right now." He stirred as I massaged his neck and raked my fingers through his soft hair. Curls spilled over my hands and arms. I guided my fingers down to the curve of his neck. A low rumble came from his throat. He quickly faced me. His eyes shifted to feline, glimmering within the candles' light.
"You want me to stop?" I asked. Saying nothing, he gripped my waist. His eyelids hung lazily, half closed as if he was going to sleep. "I'll massage your back if you take my dishes for two more weeks." Smiling, I glided my nails down his chest. He bit his lip and arched his back. Okay, maybe I'd gone too far. I moved my hands away from him. He growled.
"You're lucky you have on my frat shirt, or I'd tear it off." He rubbed his hand against my breasts. His hand slid down from my waist, caressing my thigh and moving toward the middle of my legs. I gasped and scooted backward. "I said a massage, not sex."
"You're single. I'm single." MeShack stopped purring.
"I still have feelings for you." I got under my blanket. He dove under the covers, pressing his body against me before I could escape. My heartbeat increased and I focused on breathing. His hands went to the bottom of my shirt. "If you don't stop, then you'll have to sleep on the couch."
"Just one kiss." His fingers pressed against mine before I could say no. My mouth opened automatically, welcoming his tongue and tasting honey. Damn, I miss this. But I dragged myself away from his soft lips.
"Goodnight," I whispered. He kissed my X brand and then the area around it. A trail of pleasure rippled down my body and ended at my toes. Maybe we can just make out for a little bit. I relaxed as he went to my ear, sucking on the tip, his tongue tracing it. I curled my toes.
"I'll get you another one." He clutched my shirt's neckline and ripped it.
"Wait," I gasped, heart pounding. The shirt flapped open, exposing my breasts. His mouth traveled to my neck, and I bit my lip, not wanting him to stop. Fuck it. I wanted him, right here and now, and I would think about the consequences tomorrow. He nipped at my chin and headed for my cleavage. Yes. Sparks flickered within my chest. I closed my eyes, relishing in the way his tongue flicked over my nipple and then encased it with his moist mouth, sucking and tugging until I dug my fingernails into his shoulders and moaned. Heat surged through me, moistening my panties.
"This is overdue." He gently bit the other nipple. "Do you know how many times I lie in my bed listening to you moan and hear the hum of your vibrator?"
"No." I kissed his brand. "Is that why you keep breaking my vibrators?"
"Yes," he hissed. "And your body belong to me.
I sighed, pulling away. "If we have sex tonight, it's just a one-time thing."
"Fine," he mumbled.
"I'm serious." I targeted his eyes. A thunderous growl shot from his throat. The skin on his face pushed forward as if something inside him was clawing its way out. His beast. I jumped back. "Does your beast understand this is a one-time deal?" I asked.
"Of course not. If it was up to him, you'd be chained to my bed post." The blanket moved as his hands slid between my thighs.
"Wait, MeShack. We shouldn't..." His fingers dove inside my panties. A lusty heat rushed between my legs. I moaned, my mind in a daze, as he stroked the area.
"My mate," he purred. I put my hands to his arm. His muscles flexed under my touch. I barely caught my breath as his finger entered me. "I love you," he whispered. I arched into his huge hand, taking pleasure in his calloused fingers as they glided between me. So good. I moaned, licking my lips, and pleasure exploded within me. He continued to thrust his finger in and out. His mouth went back to my breast, licking around my nipple and then sucking it hard. I let my head fall back and moaned, "MeShee."
"Gods, I've missed hearing that." I couldn't wait anymore. I tugged at the top of his briefs, wanting to touch the one thing I've missed so much this year. It would be hard and ready to satisfy any desire for as long as it took. The phone in the kitchen rang.
Erica: Welcome back. We just heard an excerpt from Fire Baptized by Kenya Wright. So Kenrya, this book was an interesting one, very different from my normal reading. It had fairies, and were-mongers, were-cats-
Kenrya: Is that like a mythical whoremonger? Like-
Erica: Yeah, it's a mythical whoremonger.
Erica: Well, I mean, niggas still exist, and-
Kenrya: True shit.
Erica: ... their mythical form are were-mongers.
Kenrya: Yes. I like it.
Erica: Okay, so give us a little background on the story itself.
Kenrya: This is the first book in a series, and I think it's billed as an interracial paranormal series, which is interesting. I know.
Kenrya: And it's super well written, and I like sci-fi, whatever. It took me years to admit to myself that I like sci-fi.
Erica: Well, I'm glad you do, because if this was an Erica-chosen story, if this was an Erica book... Wait. If the stories in this podcast were always chosen by Erica, it would be like Hood Love and Nigga Sex, so-
Kenrya: All of which is valid.
Erica: All of it is valid.
Kenrya: But it's a nice mix.
Erica: Yeah, so we need more, and you're bringing more by finding us these mythical paranormal, mythical paranormal stories that also feature really hot steamy romance.
Kenrya: Yes, and Black people.
Kenrya: So, this story is set in this place, and it's called Santeria. Yeah, it's basically off the religion. But basically, everyone who is not a quote-unquote "typical human," like who doesn't have powers, who is... They call them supes, supernatural. They're all corralled in this one area. It's basically like putting them all in the ghetto.
Erica: In a slum or something.
Kenrya: Yeah, and then they have a wall around where they live, and they are not allowed to go out and interact with the quote-unquote "normal people," which is fucked up, obviously. But then so even within the supes, there's a lot of different types of folks, like you mentioned. There's vampires. There's shifters, which are like shape-shifters. There's were-folk, people like werewolves, and were-cheetahs, and were-cats, and all kinds of shit. And more that I'm not thinking... Oh, and fairies, and then there are people who are like our main character, Lanore, who are called mixies. She's called a mixie because she's a mix of two different types of supes, and the mixies are at the bottom of the culture within Santeria, because of course, folks always find a way to put themselves higher on the hierarchy, and she's Black-
Erica: White supremacy just permeates
Kenrya: Every fucking thing.
Erica: Every fucking thing.
Kenrya: It is a smog.
Kenrya: So, Lanore is Black, and she's a mixie, and they have like brands on their heads, so you can look and tell that she's an... It's an X on her fucking head, and from the very first page, you see how she's treated, and how folks talk to her, because she's a mixie. So it's interesting, because while they live in this world that is not our world, the bullshit that Black women are subjected to still is a very real part of her life every single day.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Well, this was a really great... The scene that we picked was great, because I feel like it was so intimate. Like, when I first started reading it, I was just like, "This just feels cozy, and-"
Kenrya: Like lived in.
Erica: Intimate, yeah, like I could just feel myself in the space. And I really like how they started off with rubbing each other's hair.
Kenrya: Like, sitting there re-twisting her hair. Like, it shows the depth of their relationship, like how long they've known each other, that she trusts that nigga-
Erica: Because that's so personal.
Kenrya: ... in her head.
Erica: Yeah, that's so personal. So, for me, and I don't even have a lot of hair, but if you want me to just melt in your arms, rub my hair.
Erica: Against the grain of... I mean-
Kenrya: With the-
Erica: ... with the grain.
Kenrya: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:17:38] fucking your shit up.
Erica: Not against the grain. Don't be fucking up my waves. But yeah, rub my hair. Play in my scalp. Like, it was just such a sweet, intimate moment, and it just showed the depth of the friendship between the two of them. Give me a little bit of background on their living situation.
Kenrya: They live in the same apartment. They have separate rooms. They grew up together. I think both of their parents were maybe using drugs, or it was some situation which feels familiar, where they were kind of thrust together when they were super young, so they grew up together, and they had dated before, but now they just live together in the same space.
Erica: Okay. And you can tell that there's like years of intimacy built between the two of them. Quick question for you. Would you ever fuck a were-cat, or a fairy, or a-
Kenrya: I mean, I don't see why not. It’s so fucking random.
Erica: There's so many variables that have to work-
Kenrya: I know.
Kenrya: ... in order to make this question-
Kenrya: Like, everybody's got to have the-
Kenrya: ... equipment.
Erica: Sockets for the plugs.
Kenrya: Right, well you know, sex is bigger than penetrative, so I mean, fuck.
Kenrya: You know. There's probably a lot you could do-
Erica: Maybe got one of those were-cat tongues. But cat tongues are scratchy, right?
Kenrya: They are scratchy.
Erica: Ooh, but that might be good on like a back. I mean, I might not need that on my clit, but it's probably like good for a good back scratch, or-
Kenrya: I'm not mad at it.
Erica: ... some exfoliation or something.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, and they're adults, so fuck, you're consenting, and you're figuring it out. I don't see why not. Yeah, but of course in the book, though, he's in his human form as they're starting things, but then he starts fucking-
Kenrya: But then he starts-
Erica: But then he starts coming out.
Kenrya: Growling, and yeah, yeah.
Erica: I was like, "Oh, this could be interesting." This could be very interesting.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: I like it. So, this kind of the bigger question that I have, that kind of runs through this entire scene is could you be friends with like a former... Well, so when we were thinking about planning out this episode, we were talking about... Like, the big question was can men and women just be friends?
Kenrya: Right, and we think yeah, like-
Erica: Of course, like-
Kenrya: ... I've got friends who I never would even consider fucking.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's one of those things, yeah, I think if you're... Adults can be friends. But when you take it a little deeper, could you be friends with a former fuck buddy, or boyfriend?
Kenrya: I mean, I think it's possible. Am I? No, and I think that's just because a lot of my relationships did not end-
Erica: Very well?
Kenrya: ... that well, or even if they did, like I've definitely had some where I was just like, "All right, I'm out." And they were like, "Okay," and then we just kind of went our own ways, and it wasn't like we had ill will. It was just we didn't want to spend time together anymore. If I ain't want to spend time with you as a partner, I don't really want to spend time with you as a friend.
Erica: Yeah. I don't think I have any real relationship... I'm trying to think. Yeah, most of the guys that once dated, we... I have a few that still keep in touch, but I feel like they still keeping in touch-
Kenrya: On the off chance that you're going to throw them some pussy.
Erica: Yeah, to see if it's still warm, and you might still be around on the off chance that-
Erica: ... that I want to keep it warm.
Erica: But I also feel like they don't cross that line, and I feel like the main character, Lanore here, was definitely setting herself up.
Erica: Like, what did you think was going to happen?
Kenrya: She was. She was.
Erica: Y'all, like you flat-out told this man, "I still got feelings for you."
Erica: And then he in your bed, playing in your hair. You wearing his shirt. Like, this was just a complete and... This was one of those, like, have you seen that meme? It was like, "If you went over there just to talk, why you shave?"
Kenrya: Yes, I have.
Erica: That's one of those things, like-
Kenrya: Yeah, it reminds me of... Damn, what's that movie with the Black people? Nia Long and Larenz Tate, he's like, "I just want to come up and talk." Like, nigga-
Erica: Oh, “Love Jones.”
Erica: Okay, so we had like... There's a whole group of people probably listening ready to scream that you forgot.
Kenrya: I know. Whatever. It was one of my favorite movies for a really long time. It probably still is, but I think the last... I get so frustrated, and I think it's a thing that comes up in a lot of rom-coms, where things could just be solved with a simple conversation. So I get so fucking frustrated when cats, like, leave town, and see somebody in the bookstore, and rather than just going in or hitting them up on their cell phone, they put their head down all crestfallen and go home. Bitch, be a woman and have a conversation.
Erica: Yeah, and I think that's why this takes us back to the previous episode that we recorded, where I was like, you know, "If I'm feeling something, I'm just going to tell you. Like, if I love you, I'm going to say I love you. I mean, I'm telling you because I want you to know. I need you to have all the information," you know?
Erica: So in case you see me in a bookstore, you know I love you, so come and say something.
Kenrya: Right. So much of the high jinks-
Erica: Don’t be shy nigga.
Kenrya: ... could be avoided if folks just had actual conversations, so yeah.
Erica: But, I will admit, I don't remember seeing “Love Jones.”
Kenrya: Bitch, what?
Erica: Yeah, I don't know if it's that I haven't seen... Maybe I saw it and just wasn't paying attention, but I don't think I've seen it.
Erica: I know, and we... Yeah, I know. Okay, I-
Kenrya: I mean, I saw saw it.
Erica: Winter's coming. Don't worry. I'll rectify it.
Kenrya: Girl, I got it on DVD.
Erica: Bitch, I ain't got a DVD player. What are you talking about?
Kenrya: Oh, I do. I have one.
Kenrya: That I haven't turned on in probably three years. I used to use it for like teaching-
Erica: It don't even work, probably.
Kenrya: No, it works.
Kenrya: It totally does, yeah, yeah. I used to use it to watch... like, teaching my kid Spanish, like I had little DVDs that were like, "Baby, Bebe.”
Erica: Bebe... Why are y'all Spanish from New Orleans?
Kenrya: Right? Then like that's how I taught her sign language, with DVDs or whatever, but now you can stream all that stuff, but you know, technology changes very quickly, but all that to say that I have “Love Jones,” and it lives in my heart, and I'm sorry to all of the folks who are screaming right now.
Erica: Well, they probably-
Kenrya: Bitch forgot.
Erica: They probably put your screams away and added... Pulled out screams for me-
Erica: ... like, "This bitch hasn't seen it."
Kenrya: Yeah, it's good. I mean, if you can avoid looking at Larenz Tate's fucked up ass hairline the whole movie.
Kenrya: It's so bad.
Erica: Like, y'all ain't had no good barbers?
Kenrya: I just don't understand. Is it because he a renaissance man, he don't give a fuck about his line, his shape-up?
Erica: He cut his hair with scissors.
Kenrya: Like, what the fuck? It's so terrible the whole time. But whatever.
Erica: That's the worst. Okay, so back to relationships with former friends, friends with benefits, former fuck buddies, friends with benefits. How do you feel about your partner having relationships?
Kenrya: Oh wait, no, back up. I do have one friend who I used to fuck.
Kenrya: Who we're still friends, and we're fine. We don't have no weird tension, no nothing. It works out well.
Erica: That's pretty cool.
Kenrya: But it's one, yeah.
Erica: Yeah, I'm going to have to... It's so cool that I can't remember who it is, so...
Kenrya: I don't know how to tell you without saying it.
Kenrya: I'll tell you later.
Erica: Yeah, no, yeah, you're so cool that I can't even remember.
Erica: Okay, well that's good.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Does your partner know that y'all used to-
Erica: Okay, I didn't want to, like-
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. He knows.
Erica: You're like, "There's going to be a very special conversation in your home after this."
Kenrya: He does know, yeah, yeah, but we rarely ever see each other. We live in different cities, so...
Erica: Okay, now I know.
Erica: Now I know. I got it. I got it.
Erica: See, now the story's come back.
Kenrya: And then there was another one, right, who I was friends with, and then we were together, and then we went back to being friends, and then we got back together after we both got divorced, so that happened there too. Now we not friends no more.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think the friendship... Well, I think, but do you think that the friendship was-
Kenrya: Oh, it was absolutely-
Erica: ... keeping a pin-
Kenrya: ... keeping a pin in it, 100%.
Erica: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: I mean, we were friends. We were legitimate friends, but-
Erica: And I think that's why people are often so hesitant to want to allow their partner... Not allow-
Kenrya: To have the person-
Erica: ... but don't want their partner to be friends with-
Kenrya: Somebody who they used to fuck.
Erica: Because they've been in that situation where-
Kenrya: They knew they was holding a pin for somebody.
Erica: But, I mean-
Kenrya: Yeah, that situation was a total like, "What if," you know? If we're ever both in a situation where we could be together, how would that be? And then it happened, and... But-
Erica: But I think also, again, it's just you know, trusting that you're not with some dick of a partner that is going to... I mean, no one wants to feel like their partner has somebody on the back burner. But-
Kenrya: And I think part of-
Erica: ... at the same time-
Kenrya: Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry.
Erica: No, you go.
Kenrya: No, please.
Kenrya: No, ma'am.
Erica: At the same time, you know, like it is what it is. Shit happens. That's the reality at times, so let's not fool ourselves. It took a while to get here, but I am firmly in the I ain't trying to keep a nigga that ain't trying to be kept camp.
Erica: So, it ain't-
Kenrya: If I got to be sitting here worried about this shit-
Erica: Yeah, if I got to worry about you-
Kenrya: ... then this ain't it.
Erica: ... then I don't want that drama.
Erica: I don't want that worry. I am raising a Black boy. I got enough shit in the world, that is constantly stressing me out, than be stressing about whether or not this nigga want to be around, or keeping his girlfriend around, because he trying... Like, if that's what you're trying to do-
Kenrya: Go do that.
Erica: Do it, you know?
Erica: So sorry, what were you saying?
Kenrya: Oh, I don't even remember no mo’.
Erica: Oh, shit.
Kenrya: Oh, I do.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative)?
Kenrya: I was going to say that in those situations, I think when somebody is still friends, like for example, in the few situations with somebody who I was friends with, I felt the onus was on me to make sure that my partner felt comfortable, so in that case, it meant that they met that person. You know what I mean? I was up front about what our relationship was, like how you just asked about my current partner knowing about this other person. Yeah. I told him. I think he met him at some point, at a party or something, and I was very up front. Because my thing is, I don't ever want somebody else to have more information than you have, so then you out here looking crazy, like we don't communicate and I'm being a fucking asshole. So for me, I try to give... Not try. I give as much information as possible so that you feel comfortable, and I expect the same thing.
Erica: Exactly. Well, my ex, when we first started dating, because you know, I've been in this area, in the same area, for 20 years now?
Kenrya: Yeah, damn.
Erica: And I spent most of my... I grew up here, you know? Like, I came here in college, so I put some miles on this pussy in the city, you know? So, I always made it a point to tell him, because he was one of those type of people that be out, and be like, "Oh, I met somebody." You know?
Erica: And I'm like-
Erica: "Hey, full disclosure."
Kenrya: "Fucked that nigga."
Erica: Exactly, so like after a while, I didn't even have to say much more than, "Hey, full disclosure." He's like, "All right, I got it." You don't need to know details, but at the same time, I don't want you out... and smiling at somebody's face-
Kenrya: And this nigga, in his head, like, "Ooh, he don't know I fucked his wife," or some-
Erica: Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, so I always make it a point to... I think it's always good that everybody knows what's going on and that kind of thing.
Kenrya: Yeah, absolutely.
Erica: So, like you said, you're comfortable with your partner being friends and that kind of thing.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, I think... So two things have to happen. One is, like I said, with the whole information, and then I think the other thing is maintaining boundaries, right? Appropriate boundaries.
Erica: I was just about to say, yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah, so like making sure that your partner one, puts your needs around that up front, and well, at the forefront, and that if there are things that you are not comfortable with, that they set those boundaries accordingly, so that you can feel comfortable in a relationship. I think that's key, and I've absolutely been there, and had to point out, "Hey, I don't like this thing that she did," or, "this message that she left," or whatever, and knowing that this nigga is not afraid to then go and set that boundary, because it means something to me.
Erica: Yeah, because I also feel like part of the problem between MeShack and Lanore is that-
Erica: Yeah. Like, she failed to... Like, he's pushing boundaries left and right, and she's just-
Kenrya: Letting them back down.
Erica: ... letting them come down, you know?
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah, and then feigning like she don't want it. Bitch, you want it.
Erica: You want it, because if you didn't, you would say, "Nah."
Kenrya: Yeah, because if that phone hadn't rang-
Kenrya: We was about to get something steamy.
Erica: Yeah, I was definitely mad at that phone. Have you ever been in a situation, or has there been someone that, like, y'all just couldn't get right, like y'all... Things getting hot and steamy, and there's always a-
Kenrya: An interruption?
Erica: Yeah. I feel like that's God telling you, "This ain't where you're trying to go," if that's been the case, but-
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't think so. I got to think about that one. What about you?
Erica: Yeah, but it was a... I mean, looking back, it was a situation, where it was like-
Kenrya: It was definitely God saving you?
Erica: It was like, "You know what, girl? You don't need to be here doing this." It was always just, you know, "I got to run," or, "It's a bad timing," or something like that. I did end up fucking him at Ben's Chili Bowl.
Erica: Well, not at Ben's Chili Bowl, but-
Kenrya: It was at Ben's next door, right?
Erica: Yeah, yeah. But nonetheless, it was just one of those things where it was like, "I need to go. This ain't..." You know, like it was just always not-
Kenrya: Not quite right?
Erica: ... not quite right timing or something like that, and yeah, I think it was just, you know-
Kenrya: It was just God's way of telling you, "This ain't it, boo."
Erica: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't think I have.
Erica: Because also, I think it was a situation where I could have easily been dickmitized, so it was like, "Girl, don't get a hit."
Kenrya: I mean, was that one time at least good?
Erica: Oh, it was more than one time that we did.
Erica: I mean, not more than one time there, but it was more than one time, but you know, we had enough times during the course of that situation-
Kenrya: That little window?
Erica: ... that was like, "Ooh, this ain't... Ooh," you know? Yeah, it was...
Kenrya: I'm thirsty.
Erica: Yeah, I want... She takes these long, languid sips. Did I use the term correctly?
Erica: SAT word correct? Long, languid-
Kenrya: I be thirsty. It's a lot of talking.
Erica: The sips. Okay, so do you remember someone that was your playing with fire person?
Kenrya: I don't know. Do you remember somebody who was my playing with fire person?
Erica: Okay, you know what? I think about this every time HBCU homecoming comes around. I be talking to my girls far and wide, and they be like, "Bitch, homecoming."
Kenrya: Oh, nigga. That's always bad.
Erica: Because we hit about, what, 3:00, 4:00. It's starting to get... You know, it's fall, so by about 3:00, 4:00, we starting to go into like everybody been drinking all day, the sun's starting to set.
Kenrya: Then we get into the club, and everybody start dancing-
Erica: Everybody trying to... Who going to what day party?
Kenrya: ... pairing off.
Erica: And honey, that is when the playing with fire busts out.
Kenrya: Niggas start stopping by our section.
Erica: Or, even before you go to the section, "Where y'all going?"
Kenrya: The texts, yeah, yeah.
Erica: "Here, let me give you my number." Yeah, honey.
Kenrya: Oh, God.
Erica: Yeah, you just got to-
Kenrya: I'm legit thinking about the people that that happened with last year.
Erica: Oh, shit, yeah. It's just one of those things where it's like, oh, this is a bad situation. And I always joke about like homecoming, how one, again, you got to be just solid in your shit with your... I mean, just in life, you know, going around, but I feel like you get to homecoming, and everybody start getting on that college fuck shit, and all intentions go out the window.
Kenrya: I mean, everybody's drunk. Everybody's not really trying to go straight home after the day party.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. And it's like, "Well, let's go get some food," you know? That kind of, "Or come on over and eat." Let's go. For the record, I usually have people staying with me, so-
Kenrya: You do. Yeah, yeah.
Erica: I don't get to partake in that kind of-
Kenrya: You do.
Erica: Shout-out to my family back home.
Kenrya: They do. They be shutting your shit down.
Erica: But nonetheless, I think that's really one of those situations where you see that shit playing out, in like real time.
Kenrya: Real time. Yeah, I will say in general, I'm usually not tempted, because I can even... Because you know, I only drink one glass all day, right? I have like one thing of champagne and I'm good, because I'm a fucking lightweight-
Erica: Whereas I have like a-
Kenrya: ... so I'm good.
Erica: ... thermos of like Crown.
Kenrya: You do.
Erica: Like, just straight Crown.
Kenrya: So I'm like good and sober as I'm going through the day, but that allows me to be able to remember that you was a fuck nigga then, and you a fuck nigga now, and it's easy for me to be like, "I'm good, but thank you."
Erica: "I'm good, love. Enjoy"
Erica: Yeah. Well, I definitely-
Kenrya: Yeah, a lot of that.
Erica: You definitely see that shit happening in real time, and I mean, like thankfully, we have... I think we have a good group of girlfriends, that are quick to see-
Kenrya: Swoop in.
Erica: ... shit like that going in.
Kenrya: "Mm-mm (negative). That ain't it. That ain't it."
Erica: Because I clearly remember being pulled away, as well as pulling niggas away, like... And my dumb ass be standing like, "But, I mean, we was just going to go over here and talk," and being pulled away like, "No, bitch."
Kenrya: "No, we're not doing that."
Erica: "Danger." (singing)
Kenrya: Oh, I'm like, "What are you singing?"
Erica: Come on, now. We need Erica's-
Kenrya: Song of the week.
Erica: Erica's song of the week, Erica's storytelling time. Okay, so MeShack and Lanore. We know that going back to the playing with fire, playing in hair-
Kenrya: Which is interesting, because she has fire powers, but anyway.
Erica: Yo, I thought that was so dope, how he was like fucking with her book, and she was like, "Yo, I'm going to burn his-"
Kenrya: "Burn your shit up."
Erica: Oh, so okay, the details in this, like just the tiny details in the book, but so evident in this scene, were just amazing. Big up, Kenya Wright.
Kenrya: Yeah, she wrote the hell out this book.
Erica: Like, just the there are a bunch of candles, and some of them were suspended in air, with the-
Erica: ... with a-
Kenrya: Like, this bitch's imagination.
Erica: ... "Spell I stole from Walmart, WitchMart."
Erica: It was just like how do you think of that? I thought that was so cool.
Kenrya: I know. That's why don't write fiction. Like, these bitches got me beat. It's beautiful.
Erica: Yeah, mm-mm (negative). I mean, you know, back me in the corner, I might be able to come up with an elaborate story, but it will be horrible. And then also, with him fucking around with her book, and then she does the fire up his arm. Then, like he drops it, and it stops, and he's like watching his arm heal. Like-
Erica: ... dawg.
Kenrya: You can see it all, right?
Erica: Like, that was just so... Like, it just added to the warmth in the-
Kenrya: It puts you there.
Erica: Yeah. It just really puts you there. And also, I say this constantly. My reading game has fell off, so it feels good to be reading and exploring again, and getting excited about what these authors are writing, so you know.
Erica: Good pick. Good pick.
Kenrya: Thanks, girl. I hope that our listeners get into it. It's really a dope book, and the series is good. I'm halfway through the second one now.
Erica: Yeah, so how does this... Can you tell us more about how this-
Kenrya: I don't want to tell you. I will say that MeShack is not her main love interest in the book. It's her homeboy. There's somebody else who is of another type of supe who she is spending time with. Yeah.
Erica: Oh, you suck. Well, all right.
Kenrya: I mean, you got to leave something.
Erica: Yeah. This whole scene left us just upset-
Kenrya: And that happens quite a bit in the beginning of the book. Like, there's all this really-
Erica: Because what does that-
Kenrya: ... this anticipation-
Erica: ... what is that, God saying, "Look, bitch. This ain't who you're supposed-"
Kenrya: Yes, but it happens... I mean, it happens with the guy who she ends up with as well, but it just builds this anticipation, which is really dope, so then when they finally do, for real kind of-
Erica: Do the deed.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's like, ooh, okay.
Erica: Ooh, girl, finally, thank you.
Kenrya: Yeah. Glad I waited. Yeah.
Erica: Okay, so my baldheaded hoe ass loves somebody rubbing my head.
Kenrya: I love it too.
Erica: You do?
Kenrya: Oh my gosh. I do, and my partner knows it, and just randomly does it. Like, yeah.
Erica: Yeah, you want to have me somewhere, just start rubbing my head.
Kenrya: Yeah. It's the best. It's bad when I'm sleepy, which just feels like it's always lately, because I will just go to sleep.
Erica: Well, hey, you know, he know what he's getting into. He knows what he's getting into. Okay, so, last question. Like I said, I love the detail and the little WitchMart hex, and the fire, and the playful friendship that is so apparent between the two of them.
Kenrya: Yeah, which is like... Isn't it... For me, like that's when sex is always it's best, when it can be playful alongside the sexy and all of... Like, when it's fun.
Erica: Yeah, because I am... Like, I am personally a very sexual person, but I am also goofy as fuck-
Kenrya: A fun person, yeah.
Erica: You know? So I need to be able to feel like... If I have to be sexy time Erica all the time, you're not going to get a full complement-
Kenrya: That's exhausting, and you won't get... Yeah.
Erica: ... of me, because I'm constantly with this façade. Now, if I get to authentically be a dork like I am, then you going to get all the... I'm whipping my hair. You going to get all the Erica. So is there something in this particular, I'll say book, but scene that tickles you the most, that delights you the most?
Kenrya: I really do think it's what you started with. It's that built-in intimacy that is there with them. I just think it's such a great place to start, and as you're reading the book, like you haven't seen them interact in that way until that scene, and it gives so much background as to who they are and why they talk to each other the way that they do, and sets the scene for what's comes next. So yeah, it was the ease of it, and to me, like, not just sex, but intimate relationships are their best when you can fully be your whole self, like you were saying, in it, and that really resonated with me. Yeah.
Kenrya: What about you?
Erica: This made me think of something else.
Erica: I had a situation that reminds me of this, where there was this guy, and he showed interest, and I was, "Okay, let's see what happens." We kind of had a quick make-out session, but it kind of... You know, we had a quick make-out session, didn't go anywhere, and then I kind of got my wits about me and was like, "Nah, this ain't even what I'm trying to do." So I guess you could say we're friends, not really, just kind of we see each other out and about, and now it is always so fucking weird. Like, I saw this motherfucker-
Kenrya: Oh, really?
Erica: ... the other day, and he was like, "I miss my buddy." And I was like, "Nigga, we was never friends."
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:43:42] buddies.
Erica: "Like, what the fuck? You just..." You know what I mean? So I could only think about how weird things are with MeShack and Lanore after this constant, like-
Kenrya: It's not weird.
Erica: No, what I'm saying, have you had... I introduced all that to say have you had a situation where it's like, "Yeah, you might have fingered me for like two seconds, but then I was like nah, this ain't it."
Kenrya: Yeah, I got somebody who was like that, where we kind of got into it. We never had penetrative sex. It was just kind of some fooling around, and it didn't go anywhere, and I was in a super not great place, and I remember part of me wanted it to go somewhere, but then a part of me was like, "This-"
Erica: This ain't-
Kenrya: ... "ain't it-" Yeah. So it never went anywhere, thankfully. But even now, it's still... Luckily, I don't ever really see him. He pops up from time to time on fucking Facebook, because that's where niggas like to pop up.
Erica: That fucking poke feature. Does Facebook still do the poke?
Kenrya: It does, because somebody from high school poked me, and I didn't know who the fuck that was. Turns out it was somebody who was legit my boyfriend.
Erica: And that is, like-
Kenrya: I forgot he existed.
Erica: The poke feature is like so-
Kenrya: So fucking-
Erica: ... creepy.
Kenrya: ... passive-aggressive and noncommittal. Like, nigga, say it with your chest. If you got something to say, say it.
Erica: Say it with your chest.
Kenrya: Don't fucking poke me.
Erica: Yeah, I don't do pokes. I don't do... You know what? Pokes are... The Facebook poke is the equivalent of a nigga jumping in bed and putting his dick against your booty.
Kenrya: I was going to say sending his homeboy to come holler at you in the club, but that's it.
Erica: Well, yeah, so Facebook poke is level one, sending a nigga in a club, his homeboy in a club is level two, and then like-
Kenrya: Putting his dick on you butt.
Erica: Nigga just putting his dick on your butt is level three, and it's just like-
Erica: This whole suggesting ain't where we trying to go.
Kenrya: It ain't it. I like some assertiveness.
Erica: Honey, if you want it, you going to have to tell me you want it.
Kenrya: Not on this boulevard.
Erica: Not on this motherfucking boulevard.
Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative).
Erica: Okay, well, with that, that was Fire Baptized, by Kenya Wright.
Kenrya: Yeah, it was dope.
Erica: These are your homegirls, Erica and Kenrya.
Kenrya: Two hoes.
Erica: Making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B’Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy We want to hear from y'all. Send recommendations for books you want us to read on the show, and all the questions that you want us to answer related to sex and all the other stuff. You can send those to TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com. And please take a moment to review the show, five stars only please, and subscribe to us in your favorite podcast app. Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast, and head over to theturnonpodcast.com to find links to the books that we feature, transcripts of our shows, and info on all the guests that we talk about. Bye.
LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube
CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON
Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon
On Episode 7 of The Turn On, we read from Talia Hibbert's "Bad for the Boss" and extol the joys of dry humping.
The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.
Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Erica: Welcome to this week's episode of the Turn On. Today, we're going to read from “Bad For The Boss,” by Talia Hibbert, which was published in 2017. Sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get you whatever you need and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Bad For The Boss,” by Talia Hibbert.
"We need rules," she took a deep breath and his lips were so close to her that she could almost taste him, "Like no sex at work, no allowing the personal to interfere with the professional."
"I get it," he murmured. "You need guarantees, a safety net. I can give you that."
"Can you?" She didn't mean to say the next words out her mouth, didn't mean to, but was ultimately glad that she did. "I believe that you'd throw me under the bus to say the company's reputation." He drew back as though she'd slapped him.
"What? No, Jenny."
"It's okay, I understand it. You spent years building Brown Cow, and you've known me for days, that's just how things work."
"Jennifer," he bent over his voice low and insistent. "I wouldn't do that, not ever. I started this, I would never let you suffer because I want you. I leave women better off, not worse."
Kenrya: It took her a moment to realize, but she believed him, she did. She also thought he'd missed the point entirely, but that didn't matter, she was the one getting attached. Theo hid nothing about who he was, he'd offer her the world probably, just not himself, but she could have a taste, couldn't she? She deserved that, didn't she? Yes. Thanks to her heel, she didn't have to rise up on her toes to kiss him. She simply tipped her head back and raised her lips to his until the breath between them became a whisper. His hands tightened around her waist as he brushed his lips over hers and traced the tender inside of her lip with his tongue. She whimpered and he groaned in response, pulling her closer, clutching at her hips and dragging her against his body. She was so drunk with desire, she barely noticed as he gathered her skirt in his fist, dragging up the fabrics to expose her bare legs to the cool air.
Kenrya: But when his fingers skimmed along the edge of her thong, she gasped against his lips. "Let me touch you, Jenny," he whispered. "I need it, I need ... He broke off his voice ragged, his hands desperate as they sent stars shooting up her nerve endings.
"Yes," she gasped. "Please." With a moan, he kissed her again hard and punishing. His fingers slid beneath the fabric of her underwear to stroke the melting heat of her pussy, parting her swollen folds. She shuddered around him as he eased his finger inside her, rubbing rhythmically against the spots so sensitive she felt almost delirious with pleasure.
"That's it," he murmured as she whimpered in his arms. "You want more, Princess?"
"Please," she said again. He slid another finger into her dripping entrance, then curved his palm over her mound, so that the heel of his hand nudged against her clit with each thrust. Jen clutched at his shoulders, her knees weakening while he worked her mercilessly.
"There we go. Anyone could see you down there, you know, grinding all over my hand. You're such a good girl, Jenny, but you're bad from me, aren't you?"
"Yes," she gasped mindlessly, her heart pounding as she writhed against him. "Yes. More. Please." He pumped harder, faster, his forceful movements pushing her closer and closer so that perfect precipice.
And then she was gone, falling, soaring. He pressed hot kisses against her neck as his pace slowed, stroking her gently and easing her down from the height of her ecstasy. "Oh Christ," she says softly as reality filtered in. "Wait, aren't there cameras in here?"
"Shh, I took care of that. Don't worry." Her panic faded.
"Oh, thank God"
"... or me." With a devilish smile, he replaced her thong and let her skirt fall. Then, holding her gaze, he slipped his fingers into his mouth and sucked them clean.
Biting her lip, Jen looked down at the erection, clearly straining against his suit trousers. "Do you want me to?"
"It's okay." He smiled, but his eyes were still hot, grazing her skin like a caress. "We'll do that another time."
"Do what?" She stammered, and he laughed. "Oh, Jenny, you're so sweet." He pulled her into his arms, kissed her forehead, then her nose. "Come on. You want some truffles?"
Jen paused, thinking about the collection of condoms currently sitting in her purse. Then she thought about one of Aria's many rules; “Don't put in any effort for at least the first five orgasms.”
“You know what?” she asked, moving back toward the center of the capsule. "I think I do."
Erica: Welcome back. We just heard an excerpt from “Bad For The Boss, “which was written by Talia Hibbert in 2017. This story is an excerpt from a larger book. The book, “Bad For The Boss” is an Asian male, Black woman romance. Jen is the main character, Theo is her lover. The story starts with Jen in the beginning, experiencing some trauma as a kid, and then it fast forwards to her as a young adult working in a advertising firm in London, and she gets involved with her boss Theo. So, it's about their story and as Kenrya would say, hijinx and lots of sex ensues. So, what are your thoughts about this story, Kenrya? Overall, you like it?
Kenrya: I do. We wanted to do an interracial romance because it's a thing that if anyone who reads within the romance genre, it's a big thing, but we did not want to do one with a white man.
Erica: Yeah. And one of the great things about this story that I like is that she's a Black woman, her lover is an Asian man, but it's not "a thing." Like you know he's an Asian guy, I think the first time you learn that he's an Asian guy is he's pushing through a crowd, and knocks someone and they're like, "Hey, that Asian guy kicked it over." Something like ... but it's not like a--
Kenrya: It's not a fetish, It's not--
Erica: Yeah, it's not like she walked into his home and smelled green tea, saw ... you know like none--
Kenrya: Shoes lined up by the door.
Erica: Exactly. It's not that, it's just there are two people and there might be some descriptors, and there is a little ... what's the word for a little story?
Kenrya: A vignette?
Erica: Not a vignette, oh my gosh. Anecdote about him, why he uses this name versus that name, but it's not like a thing.
Kenrya: Okay. I'm going to start calling anecdotes little stories.
Erica: Little stories, little baby stories, little stories. So, we open this scene with her saying that they need a contract or they got to set rules because she's--
Kenrya: ... fucking her boss.
Erica: Yeah, she's in a vulnerable position. Have you ever been in a situation where you've--
Kenrya: Like a power dynamic?
Erica: Well, not even a power dynamic, but where you said to this person, "Look, we can do this, but we have to have rules and we ... Because, I mean, I think we all have rules in our head, but it has to be--
Kenrya: ... articulated.
Erica: ... articulated like that with a partner?
Kenrya: Kind of. I mean, but it was definitely on some, we're going to be friends with benefits, so it was like outlining, what are the parameters of that? Where does the friendship end and the sex begin? How do we jump back into the friendship when we're done with it?
Erica: Yeah, I think I've had a situation that was like that, and we had a TCOH policy, a take care of home policy.
Kenrya: What's that? Explain.
Erica: That's a policy where it was just home, meaning our lives and we weren't ... That makes it seem like we were married fucking around. No, it was just, things could get messy if this becomes more than just the two of us fucking, so let's make sure that we are--
Kenrya: Protecting our other--
Erica: ... making this sexual relationship, where it's just sex and we ain't talking to each other's home boys, home girls--
Kenrya: Don't be messy.
Erica: Yeah, like let's just take care of everything outside of this.
Kenrya: Okay, how did that work out?
Erica: It worked out. I mean, I think we just kind of ... you know what, I think he ended up getting serious about someone, and so in our take care of home policy, all right, well, you go do your thing and--
Kenrya: Have fun.
Erica: Yeah. I mean, it was actually a good situation.
Kenrya: Yeah, all right.
Erica: It was a good situation. Also, one of the things that I liked ... well, actually I hated this. How he kept calling her Jenny, and she was like "No. Nigga, it's Jennifer."
Erica: And he was just insistent on being like, "No, but you're my Jenny."
Kenrya: And on one hand, it's like oh, pet name, on the other, she's like, "That's not my name." That's not my name, that's not my name. That is how my daughter used to sing that song.
Erica: Oh my gosh. I had to laugh because I'm that type of person, like I will give you a name that no one else calls you because I need you to remember, if you ever in a big ass room and you hear somebody say, so—and—so, it is me.
Kenrya: Well, it's one of the ways that we build intimacy. Yeah, without even consciously realizing that that's what we're doing when we give each other nicknames. And I think that that's what he's trying to do with her, to take it out of the realm of, you are my employee, and in that space, you are Jennifer, and in this space where we are fucking or not fucking, and you are Jenny.
Erica: Yeah, because it's one of those like ... My current partner, he hates it when I call him baby, because he's like--
Kenrya: I'm a grown ass man.
Erica: I'm not your baby, your son is your baby, so—and—so can be your baby. I'm not your baby. And I'm like, "Oh."
Kenrya: It make you feel a way?
Erica: In my pants.
Kenrya: Why does ... oh, okay.
Erica: Well, the first time he said, he was like, "Nah, Nah, Nah, save that baby shit for somebody else." And it kind of turned me on because I was like, "Oh, okay. I like it. I like it." Do you have a nickname for your partner? You don't have to share it, but--
Kenrya: No, I'm not. Kind of, yes, but it's like a joke. And he a little bit hates it, but thinks it's funny.
Erica: I have a coworker who ... I'm going to tell my story, but I have a coworker who has a husband and she calls him ... say his name is James, she calls him Derrick. It's a whole different name. And she calls him that, so much so, she was like "at our bridal shower, you know they ask, do you know the grooms full name?" And they were like, "Yeah, James Derrick Jones." And they were like, "No, nothing to do with Derrick." Because like, "Why the fuck she call him Derrick?" It's like, I don't know. I find that so funny, but yeah ... I have a special name for my partner and it usually ... I mean, I use it often, but it gets syrupy and sappy when I'm asking for some shit or about to get some dick. And I actually like it, I mean, I'm queen of nicknames. I give everybody a nickname. I give everyone a nickname, but I also respect that people don't quite, I'm like, "Is it okay if I call you lil duderbop?"
Kenrya: Well, good. How do you feel when people give you nicknames? Does your partner have something that he calls you?
Erica: Yes, and I love it. It makes me sweet.
Kenrya: Right, because you feel a little bit rubbed the wrong way when he called her Jenny in the books, so I'm like--
Erica: Well, I thought it rubbed the wrong way when she was like, no, and he was just like, but I'm going to do it anyway, and it's just like--
Kenrya: Nigga, respect.
Erica: Yeah, boundaries.
Erica: And she keeps it going, and if y'all like it, I love it.
Kenrya: Her decision to make.
Erica: So, to the nasty part.
Kenrya: It's always the nasty part.
Erica: To the nasty part. I love that they don't ... there's no penetration. Well, there was no dick in puss sex, D in P.
Kenrya: Right, because he does penetrate with his fingers.
Erica: Yeah. When I read this, this reminded me of ... I was listening to Dan Savages' Savage Love podcast, and he was answering a question from a listener or something, and someone asked, "How do you feel about ... It was something about foreplay or sex or something like that. And he was telling this woman that men and women should ... well, heterosexual couples should embrace sex more like gay couples. And this is what he said, I don't have any experience or any other knowledge other than his anecdote. But he was saying that gay couples, sex is not just sex, it's mutual masturbation or just a bunch of oral sex. And he said, I think men will be less hesitant to have sex all the time if every time they had sex resulted in them getting fucked.
Kenrya: Somebody having to put something in them every time.
Erica: And so, I really like that this is a good sexual experience for the both of them, but it doesn't involve D in P. Dick in Puss.
Kenrya: Yeah. And also, I mean, yes, one thinking about the fact that in some situations there is no dick to be found and not everyone is interested in introducing an artificial one in order to get off. And also, for folks who have disabilities that don't allow them to be able to have penetrative sex, well Shit, they have ways that they get off too. And we can't always be focused on that. In my experience, I have found that men tend to be more focused on the penetrative aspect of it. Like to me, it is all sex. I actually don't tend to use the phrasing of foreplay because to me, it's oral sex, its titty says, this ... all of it is sex to me, even if it's a 15 minute session of you just laying here, lazily rubbing my clit. To me, we are still engaged in an intimate sexual act, and it doesn't even have to result in somebody coming necessarily. It is just us enjoying each other in that way, and to me that is sex. It does not have to culminate in somebody getting penetrated.
Erica: I mean I feel like we ... can we just have just a 15 second praise break for dry humping? It was like--
Kenrya: In high school it was everything.
Erica: Yeah. It was like we completely, as soon as we started doing D in P--
Kenrya: We just forget this thing that first got us off.
Erica: Totally forgot about our good friend dry humping, that got us through many situations. This used to be your home boy, now you just--
Kenrya: Toss that nigga to the side.
Erica: Damn homie, at high school you was the man, homie.
Kenrya: We shady.
Erica: Y'all just totally left your homeboy dry humping alone in the dust.
Kenrya: But it can be really great, especially in public places.
Erica: Oh, girl. Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm trying to figure it out. What do I do now? Like you do all that and he'd be like, "You nasty."
Kenrya: And then you got something to think about for later.
Erica: Who raised you?
Kenrya: A little grind, inconspicuously.
Erica: And again, just going back to it all, I think that there's so much to be said for everything else other than just ... because let's be real, we've been running stats on our Twitter and on our social media accounts about how not every woman cums vaginally--
Kenrya: Especially when they're having sex with men.
Erica: Especially when they're having sex with men.
Kenrya: Yeah, women who have sex with women, and non—binary folks and folks who don't have penises tend to cum much more often.
Erica: Because ...
Kenrya: They are not relying on a penis.
Erica: Exactly. And so, we forget that there is so much more fun in just--
Kenrya: Enjoying your body in ways that don't always involve the inside.
Erica: We don't have to take our clothes off.
Erica: ... to have a good time. Didn't one of our friends enjoy this song? I hear this song and I think about our friend that we were group texting this morning.... Does she have a story about this song? Okay, yeah. I hear that song and I can't remember this story, but I feel like there's always a random story associated with her.
Kenrya: Yes, she does.
Erica: Nonetheless, I think we just need to care. I just think we just need to remember that it's so much more than just ... and now that I think about the stories that we're reading, there's so much more about it, about just leading up to dick and puss, than it is actual. Because there's only so much, I mean, a good dick in puss is one thing, but I think that there's--
Kenrya: There's more to it than that.
Erica: Because also, your entire body responds to sensual touch.
Erica: ... more than just your vaginal canal. And let's be honest, a whole lot of men can't find your G—spot and that's really what you're going for when we're doing dick in puss penetration.
Kenrya: A lot of them are not even thinking about the fact that that's a thing--
Kenrya: ...let alone how they need to position themselves to hit it.
Erica: So I, for one, when I run for president, the first thing ... when I become president, the first thing that I am going to do is mandate more dry humping and fingering.
Kenrya: Yes, sure. Fingering has become something that I have enjoyed more as an older person, I think, because I know what they should be reaching for instead of do they. I hated it.
Erica: As a kid? Well, not ... let me not say that.
Kenrya: I hated it as a--
Erica: Newbie in the sex game.
Kenrya: Yes. It just felt like you don't know what you're doing, this friction doesn't feel good, that's not where I wanted. Ah, that angle was bad, you up against my pubic bone. Hey, how bout you take your hands out of there?
Erica: Yeah. So, I started watching “Euphoria” last night--
Kenrya: It's so good.
Erica: I couldn't even get through the whole fucking episode.
Kenrya: It took me two tries to get through the first episode.
Erica: It's really tough especially as a parent watching it. And one of the things that I realized watching this, they don't know what the fuck they doing. Don't nobody know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to their bodies or how sex works. Remember the scene with the kid and he was having sex with the girl, and he grabbed her by the throat?
Erica: And it was just like, "Well, that's what they do in the porn."
Kenrya: And she was like, "Why would you think I would like that?"
Erica: Exactly. And it's like we're just out here just--
Kenrya: Just doing what we think--
Erica: Just learning shit bad.
Kenrya: But how do you learn it? Porn is ... well, I guess maybe you look for porn that's not shot by men, and--
Erica: What 17—year—old is looking ethical porn?
Kenrya: Exactly. I mean, that's a tough one. I mean, I thought for--
Erica: It was definitely trial and error for me.
Kenrya: That's what I was about to say, that is how I came to know many things.
Erica: Trial and error, and then getting to a point where I was open enough to ask and seek answers.
Kenrya: Well, and also not accept bullshit. I think that's the other side of that coin. To be like, I don't like that shit, stop doing that shit.
Erica: Yeah. But I mean, shit, I'm damn there 40 and just now I got to that point, just now got to that point. It was hard to watch as a parent, but also just thinking back of when I was younger. I mean, I don't think I was that young doing this stuff ... maybe I was. Yeah, I was. But anyway, just thinking back, you're just so unsure and unknowing and just ... I always say, you don't even know what you don't know. You don't even know what you don't even know. And that's what it is with sex, these kid's like, oh my God, y'all are trash, this is horrible.
Kenrya: But unfortunately, I think that's not just the thing with kids. I definitely made trash ass decisions and in my 20s and--
Erica: Shit, even the 30s.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, yes, absolutely matter of fact, in my 30s where it was situations that I should not have been in with people who I should have walked away from right away. Luckily, it only took me one time to know that the fire was hot and walk away. But absolutely, it's a journey. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. And I think that this goes back to the conversation we had in another episode, we were talking about just trying to be parents. I mean, I don't need my kid coming to me asking me about the intricate details of sex, but at the same time, I rather you do ask me than ask some kid, or God forbid, Porn Hub. I mean, yes, Porn Hub is a friend, you might find it in my favorites. However, that's not where I need you to go learning things.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's difficult. I want to go back a little bit to something where we were talking about earlier, about the idea of sex not just being penetrative, and how you were saying that even with these books, the excerpt that we've been reading, there's a lot that comes before that and I think that's important for us to note. I think that when folks hear erotica, there is one thing that they think of, right? I want us to like make sure that we're bringing the full--
Kenrya: Yeah. The tease that comes before it.
Erica: The tease is the best part.
Kenrya: Yeah. The conversations that you have, the shit that you talk on text, the things that you don't say, but that you're thinking, that you're planning for next time, like the touch that is not sexual but is intimate and puts you in concert with each other before you get to that point. All of that is erotica, and as we're going through the course of the show, we'll be highlighting those parts too. It won't always be that somebody is necessarily having some type of "sex" because the erotic is larger than that.
Erica: So much larger. Sex and, sex and--
Kenrya: Sex and, sex and, exactly. Always.
Erica: Speaking of intimacy, at the end, after she cums, he puts her panties back on her and licks his finger. He licks her dead in the eye. Licks his fingers clean.
Kenrya: My God.
Erica: I was like, oh, he's setting this shit up for later.
Kenrya: Yeah. When I was reading it, I had to take a little breath.
Erica: I was like, oh, okay, he talking shit.
Kenrya: Yes, without saying a word. The erotic.
Erica: That erotic, that erotic. Oh, it was so great. Also, I learned a new rule in here that was just fantastic.
Erica: Don't put any effort for the first five orgasms.
Kenrya: Don't subscribe to that. Why do you think it's fantastic though? I'm sorry--
Erica: I think it's fantastic because I think that women tend to want to ... first, let's remember, she's like 26--
Kenrya: And he's in his 40s?
Erica: Yeah, he's 40. It takes me back to that article that we shared earlier this week where it's like why high performing women--
Kenrya: ... end up with toxic men.
Erica: ... end up with toxic men, because we're so used to working for everything that if we have to work for what should be easy--
Kenrya: It feels like we're--
Erica: We're like, it's going to pay off. Like if I'm working for this man's love, then I'm earning something great. So, I shouldn't have to lay there and fucking play with myself in order to cum with you, and this is our first time--
Kenrya: I dig that.
Erica: ... you still should be pulling all the stops. I don't take it as like a, I need to be a lazy lover at all.
Kenrya: Okay, yeah, because because I'm not enjoying that. I want to be an active participant because that's what helps get me off.
Erica: Yeah, I think it's a, we should be ... Again, it should be a dance--
Kenrya: Yeah, but no extraordinary measures.
Erica: Yeah, it shouldn't be, you finish and then I'm laying there like, what's going on? It should not have to be work.
Kenrya: They were not doing this again.
Erica: It should be, we're enjoying ourselves, and then next thing you know, orgasm man taps me on ... the ghost of a good orgasm taps me on the shoulder, inhabits my body, and I started shaking like a goat.
Kenrya: Do goats shake?
Erica: No, their legs lock and they fall out, and that is what happens at times. And so, I think I really liked that idea ... No, I don't think you should be just a stale lover, because if you ain't working, we ain't getting to five. But I also don't think that this needs to be a chore or something that you have to work at. We should be enjoying ourselves and an orgasm comes.
Kenrya: Because paying attention to each other's rhythms and asking questions and following up and doing what they've just asked you, whether it's just that they guided your hand to a certain place or whatever, that's not work. That's part of the dance.
Kenrya: Got you.
Erica: Exactly. I'm like, who grandma told her that?
Kenrya: I like this.
Erica: I definitely do, I definitely do.
Kenrya: I have a question for you. Have you ever experienced where somebody just early on where they just came and were like, time to go?
Erica: Yeah, we didn't make it past ... I mean, I think I might've stuck around for one or two thinking that I needed to work. "He had so much fun, I got to be having fun next time," but no. Yeah, I have, and it just feels you leave ... I mean, I don't like the concept of like, as a woman having sex, you're giving a piece of yourself to a man. No, I'm having sex and enjoying it.
Kenrya: Look at my fucking face.
Erica: But I do feel like having sex with someone that just worries about them and not you, definitely left me feeling empty. Like, what was that?
Kenrya: Like you were just a hole.
Erica: Yeah, like you are using me as an orifice to masturbate in. And that's the empty feeling that comes from sex. It's like you could have did this with anything--
Kenrya: You could just do this with your fucking hand.
Erica: ... a good fleshlight. Yeah, I have and was not ... And again, it's good for young girls to know this, because I was more willing to go for that shit than I am now.
Kenrya: If he starts out that way and the time when he should be pulling out all the stops, that ain't getting better.
Erica: If this ain't gravy good in the beginning, what the fuck is it going to be like when y'all both come home after working a 10 hour day tired as hell, barely want to talk?
Kenrya: And that's not to say you it has to be like mind blowing the first time, because you're still trying to learn each other's bodies, but I need to see some effort.
Erica: I need to see it feel like we at least--
Kenrya: Trying to--
Erica: Working to learn each other's rhythm. What about you?
Kenrya: I don't know, I don't think I have, but I have at once put myself in that position a little bit where I was having literally the most awkward sex I have ever had was someone, and ... It wasn't that he wasn't trying to ... he didn't care about how I felt in the situation, but he just did not know what to do, and he was an awkward person to begin with. We had these awkward conversations, but he was fine as fuck.
Erica: I was about to say, how the fuck did y'all get to there and he was just awkward?
Kenrya: He was gorgeous, his thighs ... He was gorgeous.
Erica: Something about a good man thigh.
Kenrya: Oh Lord.
Erica: That's why we love ... What's the man's name?
Kenrya: I don't know.
Erica: M'Baku. What's the man's name?
Kenrya: Now I'm just seeing thighs and hearing, "We will not have it, O."
Erica: Anyway, we love a good meaty, girthy thigh.
Kenrya: It was the thighs that got me, and the conversation was okay, but he was awkward, but he's super smart and I was like, let's just try it out, see how it would goes. And it was just as awkward as the--
Erica: Because it could go ... things could--
Kenrya: Sometimes he know how to talk with his body, because he don't know how to talk with his mouth, and that's fine. And he wasn't stupid, he was actually quite smart, he just--
Kenrya: Yes, and so the sex was awkward. And it literally got to the point, so the Kenrya of today would have been like, this isn't going to work, you should get up. The Kenrya of then, after a while, I would literally said "You should just finish." And so, he was like, "Really?" And I was like, "Yeah, I'm not going to cum, you should just finish." And so, he finished and then that was that.
Erica: Wow, wow. I'm so mad at that.
Kenrya: And he didn't want to leave my house because he thought it was good.
Erica: Oh now I remember this situation.
Kenrya: I really should have told him to stop and leave in hindsight.
Erica: Oh my God, I totally remember this. That is so funny.
Kenrya: Yeah, it was bad. Nice guy though.
Erica: So, in the story, the protagonist is 26, Jen is .... Jennifer is 26 and Theo is 40. You know I love old men.
Kenrya: I know. This is your steez.
Erica: What about you? Have you ever been in a— Did you say, I did crusties?
Kenrya: I did not, I said, this is your steez.
Erica: I thought you said you date crusties.
Kenrya: Oh my God, that's not nice, no.
Erica: I mean, shit.
Kenrya: I wouldn't say that ... you don't date crusty men, that wouldn't even be accurate.
Erica: It's not.
Kenrya: You like an old dick. I like, in my age, a younger dick. I have been with men who were older than me, no more than ... So, my thing is always, if you're closer to my daddy age than my age, then, gross. Get away from me, it's gross to me. Sorry y'all, it just, I'm not turned on by that. I think the most of an interval that I've ever done is maybe six years ... is that right? Pass, no, five, six ... I'm thinking back to my Bumble days when I had my--
Erica: Oh my gosh.
Kenrya: My range set, I think that the oldest I did was 45 and I think I was maybe 35, 36 when I got on bumble, something like that. And then I didn't go any younger than 34.
Erica: So, for Bumble, I set my range lower than my normal range, only because--
Kenrya: Because you were just looking for--
Erica: I like an older man, period. But I also feel a certain way about the men of the age that I like being on Bumble. Get your old ass off of Bumble. I would date a man, six years for me is like, he's my age. "Oh, he's my age."
Kenrya: I prefer my own age--
Erica: It's like 10 to 15 years older. I have no problem with a man 15 years older than me. However, if you're 15 years older than me, you're what? 55—ish?
Kenrya: Yeah, you're younger than that.
Erica: You're knocking on 55. If you're 55, I don't need you... There are probably some really nice 55 year olds on Tumblr. I haven't run into them--
Erica: On Tumbleweeds. No, there's probably some great 55 year olds on Bumble, but, go to Our Time, maybe I need an account on Our Time.
Kenrya: What's that?
Erica: A senior Bumble.
Erica: Yeah. And Christian mingle. That’s how TS Madison says it. I enjoy an older man.
Erica: I like gray hair, I like to feel like a young tenderoni. However, when I was doing Bumble thing, it definitely, it was my first time dating guys that were ... seriously dating guys that were my age. And I actually realized, this is pretty cool.
Kenrya: I know.
Erica: I'm like, this is pretty cool. We talk about like, you catch my reference when I'm talking about whatever. Now, I find this absolutely hilarious now because the guy that I'm dating now, he is my age, but we grew up so differently that even--
Kenrya: He still don't get you.
Erica: He be like, huh? I mean, that completely ... but we were still on two different planets.
Kenrya: I think that's why I like the same age too. I like the, if you hear cash money taken over for the '99 and 2000, you too, they're like, you need to get to the dance floor.
Erica: Yeah, and for me, it's like, my guy is typically know "this is Erica shit, let me get out the way, let me move my walker out the way." I mean, I have realized that there is some fun to be had in someone that catches on, because I am queen of random obscure references in a conversation.
Kenrya: That's true. That's not a bad thing, its true.
Erica: I'm like, huh, maybe this is a good situation. Also, I like a man to take care of me. Like I want you to be generally established and take care of me, and so I think that older men tend to get that. But I will say that the older we get, the older men, they get it. So now--
Kenrya: They've gotten to the age where they get it.
Erica: ... where they get it, and it's not like some ... damn, you want cheese too?
Kenrya: Exactly. I like same age, and I hadn't been with a lot of men who were younger, but I like young dick, and not young, young, just a few years younger, because what is starting to happen in this 38 range, is that we know some men is having some issues.
Erica: Here's the thing, I like to fuck, I like having sex. I don't have to have lots of sex, when I do, it is, oh, we're going to have to clean these walls.
Kenrya: Right, but so you like that it's not ...
Erica: You're in the, let's have it three times a day stage.
Kenrya: Yeah, and a 20 minute refractory period.
Erica: Yeah, and I'm in a, "Well, we did it yesterday morning. It's like that, what do you want out of me? Was it Boosie? What do you want out of me?" That's me.
Kenrya: So, a little bit older works well for that.
Erica: Yeah, because I mean, we have good, good fun, hot sex. It's more quality than quantity. I mean, not to say you don't get quality but--
Kenrya: I like penetrative one point in a day and a non-penetrative situation at another point in a day. So, I get two and I get the full complement of the situation.
Erica: Yeah. I like a nigga be complaining about it.
Kenrya: You feel like did something. That nigga say his heart hurt.
Erica: And you know, my knee is going bad and shit, so I need to do a half a drop and make the nigga feel like I am making beats, like, "Did you see that bitch? She bent down, and picked up that panty."
Kenrya: We definitely have lots of con ... "Your knees okay? Do we need to" ... this bitch is falling apart. But it's all me, he like, "Let's get it." And I'm like, "Hold on, I need to move my knees."
Erica: Oh my God, no, that's definitely my kind of sex. Like I said, when we do it, it's trifling, but it takes a minute for us to .... it takes a minute for us to recover.
Kenrya: And that's good, it means that y'all are in the same space in terms of how much you want, which is key. I mean, it's also a good conversation. Like we had a conversation early on and we actually continue to have it to make sure we still on the same page. Like, how often is optimal for you to have sex? I think is actually a really important conversation because a lot of folks and a lot of marriages fail from people who come in and don't realize that they got completely different clocks in terms of how often they think is often enough. And if you don't have that conversation and are not honest about what it is that you need, somebody is always going to be feeling like they not getting what they need. And you know what they say, sex and money are the two major things that people get divorced over. You're setting yourself up if you don't have a honest conversation about what you want and how often you want it.
Erica: One thing just generally going into ... I was talking to a friend going into marriage, we'd go into this, I love you, you love me, we're just going to--
Kenrya: We'll make it work, love is enough, it's all we need.
Erica: Naw, Dog. You can't love yourself through red flags. All righty. Well, with that said, that wraps up this episode of The Turn On. These are your lovely hosts, Erica and Killa Kenrya, two hosts making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song's from Brazy. We want to hear from y'all, send your book recommendations and all your burning sex and related questions that you want us to answer at firstname.lastname@example.org, and please subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app. Follow us on Twitter @theturnonpod, and Instagram at @theturnonpodcast, and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at theturnonpodcast.com. Bye.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their mines. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.