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In Episode 6.5 of The Turn On, we talk to therapist Quinn Gee-Edwards about hoteps, narcissism and the importance of having a firm foundation before you date.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get Off.
Kenrya: So today we're talking to Quinn Gee-Edwards. Quinn is the owner of Magnolia Mental Health and founder of Hey Black Girl. Quinn is a licensed psychotherapist and specializes in codependency trauma and minority related issues including those that impact women, members of the LGTBQ community and people of color. Hey, Quinn.
Quinn: Hey, how are y'all?
Kenrya: We are lovely.
Erica: Doing well, thank you.
Kenrya: Yes. And glad to have you here. But before we dive into our questions, what are your pronouns?
Quinn: My pronouns are she and her.
Kenrya: Awesome Okay, we're both she and her as well.
Erica: So Quinn, we read your official bio, but we like to push folks to sum up what they do in regular ass words, so what would you say it is that you do?
Quinn: So basically, I get paid to be nosy. That's genuinely my favorite way to describe what I do. But I essentially like listen to people's issues, problems and things that they're celebrating. And kind of give them feedback or maybe better ways to handle it, different outlooks about things and maybe some coping skills about how to process going forward.
Kenrya: I love that she said things that they may be celebrating-
Erica: I was just about to say that.
Kenrya: ... Yeah, I don't really think about that. And when it comes to therapy, because I feel I spend most of my sessions. Like bemoaning the fucking state of the world.
Quinn: Yeah, I always have to remind people, "Yeah, bad shit don't just happen to you. It's not cloud or rain everyday, sometimes you have peaks of sunshine." And so, clients usually forget that they can come in and talk about the things that they did well as well as the stuff that sucks, but I do have some clients that do that.
Erica: And as you progress, hopefully there are more things to celebrate than.
Erica: Sucky rain clouds so.
Kenrya: Yes quick little commercial for therapy.
Erica: Yes. And we may get very clear on this show that we find therapy to be very beneficial. We look at our therapist as a superhero and all superheroes have an origin story. So what is your therapist origin story? How did you come to do this work?
Quinn: So originally I wanted to be a international psychologist and focus on, victims of sex trafficking and work with the FBI around that, under my mentor who is Jane Goodall's mentee. So, good stock, who's cool by the way. She's really cool. So I--
Kenrya: Is she Black?
Quinn: Jane Goodall, white as hell.
Kenrya: No, I know. She, Oh, I thought you were talking about your mentor.
Quinn: No, she's white woman too, but she don't want to be. But in the good way. You know how some white people be like, I wish I was Black. Oh I wish I could.
Kenrya: I wish I could renounce it.
Quinn: Yes, though she doesn't do that. She was like, yeah, you know, being white cool. Cause I get to call attention to the shit that, you know, white people be fucking up with, so I liked it.
Kenrya: I'm saying she uses her privilege properly. I like it.
Quinn: Exactly. So I originally wanted to do that, but I ended up, getting divorced in college and it really impacted kind of my professional trajectory as well, cause I went and got counseling myself, and I really liked it. It was a more direct way to approach the issues that I was having. And I thought, I like this, so I want to do more direct work with people. So I just switch gears and just did therapy instead.
Kenrya: I wonder how many folks come to be therapists from going to therapy?
Quinn: I would hope a lot, but, as I have recently learned in many of the therapist Facebook groups I mean, therapists are stupid too and some of them don't have their own having gone through their own shit and processing. I think that should be a requirement for our degree. But I was fortunate enough to work, in a clinical environment starting off, that required me to do my own counseling. And so I understand what it's like to be on the other side of... now be clear it sucked. It totally sucked. These are the people who told me that it was in my head that, I was experiencing microaggressions--
Erica: Oh wow.
Quinn: But I am glad that they made me go to counseling.
Erica: Well, I'd probably talk to you a lot, to put yourself in the shoes of your clients.
Kenrya: Yeah. And speaks to like the necessity of culturally competent therapy, right? Like the idea going and telling a white person, all my business is repelling to me. But like I think that some people, they live in places where they may feel like they don't have a choice or whatever. But even just the idea that even if you have to go to someone who may not match your experiences, that you are still looking for someone who can in some way if not relate to what you're going through, not fucking tell you that its all in your head.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Quinn: Exactly. And that's kind of one of the reasons why I made sure that I specialize in populations that don't really see themselves on the other side of the couch. And you know, working at that clinic, I am grateful for the things they taught me. They also taught me about what microaggressions are. 'Cause I don't, I'm not sure, you know, a little back in the day, about four five years ago, back in the day of, Girbaud jeans in the South. But, which was literally five years ago. But it really taught me before I really had this larger sense of what microaggressions were. Like I was experiencing them in real time. And so later on when I look back and I have the language for that, I can help clients who experienced those things, navigate through them. And I'm sad that I went through that pain, but I also think that that made me the kind of therapist I am. And unbeknownst to them, it helped shape, you know, like my perspective of like this is the populations that I really want to work with, the people that I really see need this. And it felt good.
Kenrya: All right. So I mean you just said that, that feels good. I'm wondering like what is the thing that you like most about what you do on a day to day basis?
Quinn: Being right, and doing right. Like... I'm literally like, I don't know when this will premier, but I'm literally getting out of a day full of sessions, right? And I've been right all day. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just after like six hours, you tired of being right your damn self... I just, I think that's my favorite part of my job is just that gratification, right? Like see bitch you be knowing stuff. And part of that is because I have this like imposter syndrome that like I'm not the right kind of therapist. I'm always so scared that I'm fucking up somebody's life or that I am just saying the wrong thing or I'm sweating. Oh God, Like they're distracted, they're not even listening to me. And so being able to come into a session after I've had those, insecure thoughts and hear a client really say back to me, "Hey, you know all that shit you told me to do, you was right. This is how it worked." It kinda helps like calm that voice in my head. But also I really do like helping people and again, I am nosy. I like knowing shit.
Kenrya: I mean that imposter syndrome shit is real. And I... like, I never really like, I know that it is something that women deal with right? And I know that it's something that women of color in particular deal with. Like I was talking to my partner and like he was asking how I was feeling about some new projects that I have, and I was like, "Yeah, I mean I feel good. But I'm also like trying to remind myself that I'm great and that I can do this and I'm not a fraud, and I'm not going to get in there and they're going to be like, what the fuck are you doing? I was like, you know, imposter syndrome." He was like, "What is that?" He was like, "I have never felt like that." And I was like, "Cause you got a dick." You have never been-You identify as a man. You've never been made to feel that way.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-
Quinn: Yeah. And I mean, as much as even when we shield Black men, we shield ourselves with degrees and accomplishments, it doesn't go away, because that was one of the ways that I built, I thought I was building protection against my insecurity, right? Was to create this Spartan like, barrier between me and this force that my anxiety was just so loudly speaking through that you don't belong here. You're not like... you're not like the rest of the therapists, so there's something wrong with you. And I hear it every day, and some days it's louder than other days, but instead of just like building up this force but making it bigger and bigger and all that pressure behind that shield, busting through and causing me harm, I learned how to just like, you know, do it the 300 way, the battle of Thermopylae. Sorry, I really love Greek mythology. And just follow that shit through, like just find a way to beat my anxiety at its own game.
Kenrya: Wait, is that the one where they was kicking people into the pit?
Erica: They kicked one person into the pit, Ken. Oh my God.
Quinn: Yes, exactly one person, and it was the black guy by the way, but they kicked him yes.
Kenrya: You know I don’t know history.
Quinn: That's not history, that's a movie.
Erica: That ain't even history. Its a movie.
Kenrya: In my mind in the movie it was a whole bunch of niggas getting kicked into a pit.
Quinn: Yes, true.
Erica: It was literally one nigga and the only nigga into a pit and yes.
Kenrya: I just see red capes.
Quinn: That is one of my favorite movies--
Kenrya: Is it?
Quinn: That is one of my all time favorite movies, I love that movie. I yell that shit all the time. Like what I was problematic, right before I would get into a fight, I'd be like, "this is Sparta". In my head like, and I would just charge like literally whenever I'm on some stupid shit, I yelled. This is Sparta first and--
Erica: I was about to say now, is this really only when you were problematic, because I feel like you probably have "this is Sparta" moments. Like you probably had one at Whole Foods this morning.
Kenrya: Right now.
Quinn: I don't shop there, that's one for the devil, but not before that. That food unseasoned, I don't believe in it so.
Kenrya: It just depends on the location.
Quinn: Sure. Okay. Yeah.
Erica: Well Quinn, what is the most, what would you find the most challenging thing about being a therapist and working with people? Well, no. The most challenging thing about being a therapist.
Quinn: Because have you met people like that?
Erica: I know, my bad.
Quinn: So like there is the fun like comical stuff like, if I feel like I got bad BO that day or Oh my God, when I think I have a booger in my nose, or my hair is so fucked up today. I just want to head in one of my sessions and just wrapped my fucking hair. Like I'm just like, look, I don't want you looking at this shit no more let's just wrap this up. And they just was like, "I appreciate your authenticity." like, one of my braids fell out in my session like two weeks ago. Like it's just be stupid shit that'd be happening or I have some milk and now I got a fart my whole session, but I got to not look like it, or my session running over and I got to pee, and my client wants me to walk them to the door.
Quinn: So I got to stand up with my knees together and told him my damn bladder, so I don't piss on myself if my session like, just Amelia Bedelia.
Kenrya: Being human.
Quinn: Yes. So that part is hard. But then also of course like when my clients are triggering me, right? That's called, like, well countertransference is when I'm projecting my shit on to them. But sometimes like I have some of the same experiences and issues that my clients have, and when they're in front of me talking about things and I'm also processing and stuck with, it is so hard. It is so hard to stay present. But that's also when I do my best work as a therapist because I feel responsible for counseling two people in that room. Now that ain't what I'm supposed to do. But I mean sometimes you can't help, I don't know what my clients are getting ready to say to me when they walked into the room, so I just roll with it and just let them know like, "Hey, I understand exactly what you're going through. Here's what I think you should do." And usually when I'm saying that, I'm talking to myself, that's also why I use we a lot in sessions with clients, because I'm often reinforcing some of these things as well internally.
Kenrya: Damn. I mean I think I never thought about it that way, because even, you know, when I'm like setting my boundaries around certain things that I can't talk to people about, a lot of times it is because it is triggering to me. Like when, like if a family member wants to call and dump all of their shit on me, right? Like a boundary that I've had to set is that I can't do that because it fucks with my own anxiety. I never thought about the fact that, that would impact the therapist on a day to day. I think in a way I do kind of think of y'all as superheroes. Like y'all got this like extra shield around y'all that other folks don't have, that lets you be able to do that work and walk out unscathed. But that's not realistic.
Quinn: No. And nobody thinks that therapist need trigger warnings. Like that's the interesting part. Like, so for instance, it's like, it don't even always be about difficult, traumatic stuff. Like, because I'm like, you know, super liberal, whatever. My clients might say something like, "I don't like how my bussy is feeling nowadays." And I'm just like, "Okay wait, I was not ready yet for that conversation, but I appreciate the candor or like, I thought we was going to talk about your mama shit." So, and sometimes I'm just, because it's so fun sometimes it's, I like so many of my clients that sometimes I try to manage like talking to them, like as like somebody that's a peer and understands what they're going through and is enjoying this conversation with them, but also like making sure that I keep it therapeutic. But then also there's the times like when I'm out and about, especially like when I was on Twitter and back home, people would recognize me and they would just walk up to me and just start telling me trauma shit. Like--
Kenrya: Oh shit.
Quinn: I mean Kroger in the bread aisle ’cause I was finna fry some and catfish and spaghetti.
Kenrya: Yes spaghetti.
Quinn: All right. See, this is the largest group of fish and spaghetti advocates I've ever been around. So I just wanted to take a moment and appreciate that for the culture.
Kenrya: Yes, everybody soak it in.
Quinn: But, yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Like the hot sauce in the bread. Yes. But no, I'm usually like in random places and someone will like, just decide that because I'm a therapist, they want to tell me something, when I'm getting my hair done, when I'm in the car, in a Uber, when I'm in a random party, when I'm meeting people, when I'm grocery shopping, like even like people would try to be my... people still try to literally be my friend to be, to get free therapy. Like I've had at least four people say that to me, in the past year and a half on social media via DMs. Like, you know, I would love to have a therapist as a friend cause I feel like you'd be my best friend, like here out. Like what?
Kenrya: These people have--
Quinn: You know.
Kenrya: ... no boundaries.
Quinn: Yes. And also we forget people are weird.
Quinn: So you know, like that's the hardest part it's just like, sometimes people forget that, I'm a regular person, you know.
Kenrya: Yeah. That's real shit. So we're gonna change gears a little bit, because you know we asked you to come on the show today because we read a book last week, "Let Me Free You" that features a self-described hotep. So for those who are listening who don't know, I'm going to read a short description of a hotep from the homie Damon Young over very smart brothers. And he first reminds us that hotep is an Egyptian word for peace. So we got that out of the way, like we know it means peace, but then he breaks down the way that we tend to use hoteps today. And he says for some signs that a person might be hotep look at the following, or look for the following. One, a steadfast belief in illogical conspiracy theories. Two an arrogant adherence to respectability politics. Three, sexism and homophobia that vacillate from thinly veiled to, "if being gay was natural, how come it ain't no any gay elephants?" Four unbowed and uncompromising support for any Black man accused of any wrongdoing. Even if said man's guilt is clear Lord. And five ashy ankles. It feels hella accurate.
Erica: And also I'd like to add that ashy part between your thumb and your index finger.
Kenrya: Thank God. So full disclosure. My shoes ashy right this moment, but--
Erica: Oh my God.
Kenrya: But I also was washing my dishes. So--
Quinn: Damn is mine? No.
Erica: You gotta keep lotion.
Kenrya: I mean, none of the other shit applies though. We good.
Kenrya: Okay. So while the male lead in the book, did his best to separate himself from what he even described as some of the worst things that are associated with being in a hotep. He made us think about some of the terrible men that we've encountered. And we happen to know Quinn, that you have a top notch hotep door. So what makes your alarms go off?
Quinn: So much, everything that Darnell said, of course. I would also add probably like either that area right before, like the bottom of your feet, like the ankle area, or like--
Kenrya: You like that tendon?
Quinn: The elbow.
Kenrya: The back of your tendon?
Quinn: Yeah. Like right there. Yes. That is it honey.
Kenrya: So they don't believe you are reaching down.
Kenrya: The white man...
Quinn: ... the white man.
Erica: The white man wants you to reach down.
Kenrya: But apparently they know because white people don't wash they legs so.
Quinn: But the white man wants you to bow to him. That's why he don't put lotion on his ankles. You see what I'm saying? Say woke, you know, please sleep. So that, I also think those curve fingernails—the ones that don't lift up, you know where it look like a... like no this aint. Like you got a one D finger, you know what I'm saying, no D whatever it is, like. It just flat [crosstalk 00:19:40]
Kenrya: Booty diggers. Call them booty diggers, cause you're just digging your booty without scratching yourself.
Quinn: Okay. Like those fingers were so gross. It's like he's a part of they... it's like a helmet for they finger.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Quinn: But, if they got one of them ankh necklaces, or some kind of wood jewelry.
Erica: Pause for the cause. I have an ankh tramp stamp. I was young and wanted a tattoo and needed something that wasn't... I didn't want to get sweet and juicy on my back, so I was.
Kenrya: Bitch, did you think it was like deep.
Erica: I thought it was deep. I thought I was classy. Fuck all y'all.
Kenrya: Was you fucking with the hotep at the time?
Erica: No, this is part of what makes me a hotep magnet and now I'm mad.
Kenrya: Do cats see you out at festivals and get a glimpse of your ankh and they are like, "Ooh, that one."
Erica: Peace Queen. "I'm like, no, I'm really a bald-headed hoe, I really like bald headed hoe shit.
Kenrya: That's false advertising.
Erica: Yeah, it definitely is, it's like we wanted a queen. We got a hoe. I'm like, yup.
Quinn: That's it too. If they just always say like queen and what grand rising.
Kenrya: So, wait let's unpack grand rising because that's the last part of the story that we read. The couple wakes up and the dude says grand rising and then she say grand rising Neil, what does grand rising mean? What do we know collectively?
Kenrya: I don't, I'm assuming the sun rose.
Erica: I'm so mad.
Quinn: And it was grand. Someone thought that one morning. This is such a grand sun. Wake up grand sun stay woke that's where it came from.
Kenrya: Always center the man.
Quinn: I have no idea. But I mean I just, I think that that, and probably super creased clothes, maybe if they a Mason. Well I don't know, I'm thinking about that one lately. Might want to consider that.
Erica: Okay. Again, I feel attacked because I'm from the Midwest and we'd like to crease our pants. No longer do I do it, but it was a thing.
Quinn: Okay. yeah, that is, sure. I mean just general avoidance of equality for anyone except the Black man. Pork, you all know the hoteps, hate pork and they just, that's something I think that their might be they, if you're going to do a witch's circle, where you pour salt around, just put a bunch of pork chops in a fucking circle around you to repel these kind of niggas. Pork chops and lotion. I ankle lotion and maybe you all won't pull no goddamn hoteps no more. Just a nice little prayer circle.
Kenrya: I like it.
Erica: So why are hoteps dangerous? What like, for folks that are out here just trying to live, get a little dick, find a boo, why are they dangerous?
Quinn: I think that definitely if you're casually dating a hotep, you might be okay. Especially if you are a person going into it knowing, I'm just dick and free meals, pork free meals apparently. But that's it. That's all you're going to get from this nigga. If you go into it knowing he stupid knowing you can't take them nowhere. He going to tell you something bout anti vaccine.
Kenrya: Oh, God.
Quinn: Needles came from a white man. And ain't no gay elephants. Like lesbians don't exist at all. Like matriarch elephants couldn't be lesbians at all. All they do is live together for a long ass time walk around and do shit.
Kenrya: Raising their kids together.
Quinn: That's sound like a lesbian relationship to me, but fine. But if you are just casually dating a hotep, I think you're okay. As long as you keep your wits about you, you got some good friends, some good people to mirror back to you. Like, "Hey, this ain't it. I hope we're just having fun." But the problem is hoteps usually got real good dick. And so if you the type of person that get easily dickmatized you might be in trouble. You might--
Kenrya: Wait. It feels like you've had some personal experience with hoteps.
Quinn: Yeah, you know what? I am so grateful to only have dated a couple of hoteps in my youth. When I was under 18 so, you didn't have a word for it. You just knew this nigga was stupid.
Quinn: Like how you misspelling shit on Bebo. I don't know if you all remember Bebo. That was like, back in [crosstalk 00:24:40].
Quinn: That might've just been some Clarksdale, Mississippi shit. Somebody made a web page, nevermind. Edit that out. It was Mississippi's Facebook. But... So, but essentially I dated some niggas back then who were kind of like, just young and stupid. One of them was half Puerto Rican. So, he will talk to me stupid in Spanish and I just love it. He probably say, hace frio or something. The nigga was in Mississippi. He wants connected to his roots, but I don't know. But I mean, as an adult, I don't, I think my ex-husband was kind of a hotep, but it's hard to reflect his behavior and align it back as just a hotep. Because he's also was abusive, so I don't want to just label him as a hotep because he has this other dark thing to him. But we also have to really consider a lot of men who are hoteps. They're all this misogyny and internalized racism and homophobia. That's also really dark shit. And a lot of them are narcissists.
Kenrya: That's actually something we're going to ask you about.
Quinn: Oh, okay.
Kenrya: The overlap of because for me, a lot of the hoteps that I've encountered were narcissists as well. I also think, maybe it's important to take a minute and explain to our listeners what that is. Because I think we throw the term around a lot, it's just like how people call people sociopaths. But people don't really know what that means. So can you just take a second and back up and tell folks what a narcissist is?
Quinn: Yeah. And so you don't have to be a sociopath to be a narcissist. And also you don't have to have a personality. You don't have to be a narcissistic personality disorder to be narcissistic. But basically a narcissist is somebody that has, who they really are because of some kind of like childhood trauma or something like that. Something horrible at some point happened to them or disturbing or disruptive and they decided instead of confronting it and processing it and dealing with it like the rest of us, they was going to come up with a whole new sense of self and they won't see anything outside of that. And they want other people to engage with and or worship that false sense of self that they created.
Kenrya: Oh, shit. That feels very familiar. So, given that definition, does it make sense that I've seen so much overlap between hoteps and narcissist?
Quinn: No, I mean, because if we look at some of the stuff even that Damon just pointed out about the behavior of narcissism, I mean of hoteps it is an alignment. hoteps think that the man is the head of the family, the Black man specifically. And everything centers around him being King and women are subservient to him and all of this shit. And so that doesn't sound very different from a narcissist who just makes everything about them all the time. And who projects this confidence. And I am this fantastic man and really you ain't got shit and doing shit, but you just standing on the backs of these women and children or other people around you. And I just really also think that hoteps usually do a lot of gas-lighting, which narcissists also do. Warping your reality and making you feel like, well, is this really true? And also taking away your options from you by warping your reality making you think that nobody else will want you but them.
Kenrya: Right, isolating you.
Quinn: So therefore you got to do that. Yeah.
Erica: So why do you think we get swept up by them?
Quinn: Well, good dick. I mean--
Quinn: Let's just--
Kenrya: Put it out there.
Quinn: Keep a spade, put a spade--
Kenrya: But also there are also women who fall into this hotep trap, right? What do they call them on a Black lady--
Kenrya: Herteps. That's a thing too.
Quinn: Yeah. Well dick isn't gender specific, by the way, you know.
Kenrya: I know, so--
Quinn: So you could be strapping it up but--
Kenrya: Real shit.
Quinn: I do think that definitely, if we're talking about the context of people other than me and then our hoteps, they still believe in that hierarchy and that structure of relationships. So they still contribute to these harmful ways in any possible way. And the goal is, I don't want to be the bottom of the totem pole so am always find someone lower than me. So, for hoteps it's--
Kenrya: I'm sorry y'all, I'm going to say one thing. I always try to do things in the moment. So using the term totem pole is actually derogatory.
Quinn: Oh. You are right.
Kenrya: Yeah. So let's use a ladder or just hierarchy or whatever. So yeah, but they want to climb to the top of the ladder. Right? They want to be at the top of the hierarchy.
Quinn: Exactly. And they also want to make sure that they have someone to look down upon. So for herteps you usually see, especially Black women of a certain demographic, like an age group, you usually see that antagonism that Black men have towards Black women with black women is usually against trans persons and the LGBTQ community and--
Kenrya: Somebody who they perceive to be lower on the hierarchy than they are.
Quinn: Exactly. Unmarried women, young mothers, people like this who just reject very specific structures and hierarchies that they have believed in.
Kenrya: So what can folks do to disentangle themselves from these hoteps?
Quinn: I mean obviously phone a friend, if you feel like you get too dick whipped or ass whipped should I say. And I think that it's really important for you to have a really good, when you can, right? We're not talking about relationships where you're 17, 18 and you're developing who you are. But if you have a very solid sense of who you are before you go into a relationship with a person like this, it will be really easy for you to not have your core shaken so much up by them. You know what I'm saying? With earthquakes, they put the damn poles deep in the ground, and so even when the earth moves the foundation doesn't have to. And I think it's important for you if you're going to be dating as an adult person to just at least go into relationships where you know who you are because you're going to be constantly tested by hoteps or herteps or just regular people about shit you think you already know about you. And if you already are protected and well grounded, you'll be all right. And you'll know that this person's full of shit. Now if you like most of us who don't have the core sense of self before you start dating, you learn on the way, right? So having friends reflect things back to you. But you have to be honest and we have to eliminate the shame of fucking up in relationships. So you have to be honest with your friendship circle. Also be honest with, if you have a therapist or a pastor or someone you're close to that you can download some of this stuff about. Lean into them and just be able to say like, this is what's going on with my person and when shit is abnormal, they will tell you. I've been thinking this story was normal, my whole fucking twenties and, thirties well, I'm only 31, but 20 and 30. But I have tell people that one of my exes who was a hotep who is a doctor here in the DMV area actually. I met him through his girlfriend which, I was fucking his girlfriend and then I got him. So I mean.
Quinn: I mean, so I got hooked up with him and I remember thinking he was a doctor so he knew everything he was talking about, right? And so I'll never forget after he was telling me something about how women should talk to men and his mom always bent her knee to his father when he came into the house after a long day, it's shit like that. I'll never forget, I was talking to people about just a random story and I was like, yeah, he put some hand sanitizer on his dick instead of taking a bath.
Kenrya: What? My God.
Quinn: I will never forget this, about two months ago I just found out that wasn't normal. I'm sitting there laughing at this story with my wife about another part of the story and my wife is sitting there looking at my friend's face and I'm moved on and they all laughing and I'm like, damn, this is a good story I'm telling. They all said, "That's not normal. What are you talking about? How did you skip that?" And your friends, if you're honest with your friends about what's going on, they will call it out. Whether it's comical or not, that doesn't matter. But I have people in my life where I can reflect these experiences back to, and they can give me some feedback about it. But that didn't happen if I wasn't willing to be vulnerable.
Kenrya: Which is tough. Right? Especially because we're taught that that's a weakness.
Quinn: Yeah, we're conditioned to think that we have to be strong.
Kenrya: Right, absolutely. So for folks who are like us, well, I'll speak for myself, I turn to books for solutions and plans all the time, I'm a nerd. Do you have any book recommendations for folks who may need some help with dealing with the issues that may arise either from dealing with somebody like this or to give them a grounding to be able to disentangle themselves?
Quinn: Absolutely. My favorite books to prescribed to clients are "The Body Keeps The Score" and "Facing Co-dependence." So, Body Keeps The Score is mostly centered around physical trauma and the disconnect between your brain and body when these things happen to you. And how your body responds in one way, your brain responds in another and it's really good to see people really understand these two things don't always work in tandem. And sometimes my body is telling me this isn't a good relationship. Why am I in this relationship? Your body is always tired and crying. Well, you're always crying and you're sick or you can't get aroused as much as you used to because your body is trying to give you these clues. Your brain though will tell you this is the best relationship you've been in. He hasn't hit you. What's wrong with that? Is this relationship so bad. She isn't doing nothing as bad as your last partner. And so being able to show them the disconnect that your brain and your body will have and how to learn to understand your complete language that your body is giving you is really important.
Quinn: Facing Codependency is one of my favorite is because one, all my black women have resistance to that book. I have never prescribed that book to a black woman at this point. It's like 112 women that I prescribed this book to. Every single one of them gets angry. Every single one of them is like, this--
Kenrya: I mean the word codependency is scary.
Quinn: Yeah, especially because for us, we're conditioned to think that we're supposed to be hyper independent and that word codependent seems incongruent with what we think about ourselves. But without getting too much into that, being super independent is a form of codependency. So I'm just like, okay, sure.
Kenrya: Why are you so loud Quinn.
Quinn: All right, sure. Single independent woman don't need no man. I get it. I fuck with it. However, let's just talk about why. And that's where I always get the resistance. But those two books really give you a snapshot of your interpersonal relationships with the co-dependence one and also how you feel with the body Keeps the score one.
Kenrya: Oh, thank you.
Quinn: You're welcome.
Erica: So as we prepare to close, we'd like to ask you one final really tough question. It’s a would you rather, so would you rather be in a relationship with a hotep or in a relationship with a person, a Black person that swears they don't see color.
Quinn: Okay. So the kind of relationship, all that shit is the same, right? Short term, long term, whatever. It don't matter.
Quinn: Just would I rather spend my evening talking to somebody about how Bill Cosby tried to buy NBC or.
Kenrya: You know that happened to me for real.
Quinn: Somebody, It has happened to all of us. It happened to me talking to other therapists.
Kenrya: Oh, shit.
Quinn: So, yes. Never forget that. I thought that was just a Twitter thing until somebody said that shit to me in real life. I was like, you're too old to be stupid. They just are. You've been around long enough to read books.
Kenrya: We know that doesn't matter.
Quinn: Spend my day thinking about that. Or somebody that just, Ooh, probably tucks they shirt in real high, wear they pants real high. They probably wear--
Erica: Ugh armpits sweat stains on they pants.
Quinn: Ducks unlimited, them ducks, the mallards that be on them belts, they probably wear something like that, or wear they shades with a band or string rim. Oh my God, at least with a hotep I'm going to have a good time. I think I might, the food going to be seasoned and I'm not like, just think about somebody who don't see race, the food they eat, they probably drink milk. Oh my God. I just, Oh, that feels so boring. I would just be so disappointed to have missionary sex with the lights off, just to be in a relationship with this loser. So, no.
Kenrya: So you're going with a hotep.
Quinn: I would rather hertep, by the way.
Quinn: I'd rather deal with a stud with these problems. Nah, that'd be much worse. Let's... I'll go with a hotep. I'll go with a hotep man. I'll take that for 300. Probably how much money he going to owe me when we broke up.
Kenrya: Bitch, exactly. Yo, we're so glad that you've joined us today. Where can people find you?
Quinn: Yeah, you can find me on my social media, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook is @magnoliamheath. my website is magnoliamhealth.com. Also heybgirl.com. You can send me a Email all of my contact information is on my website and on my social media pages.
Kenrya: That's dope. Well, this wraps up this week's episode of The Turn On. Thanks you all for joining us. Peace.
Quinn: Thank you for having me.
Erica: Thank you.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'.Lystic The theme song is from Brazy. First please leave a review in your favorite podcast listening app. For real we want to hear from you all. Send your book recommendations and all the burning sex and related questions you want us to answer to firstname.lastname@example.org. And please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app. Follow us on Twitter at the @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheturnOnPodcast and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Bye.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.