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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya amble through Kenrya's sex life and talk about the impact of trauma in the bedroom and revel in the joy that comes with letting the right one in.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Hey, y'all. Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. So you know we do our This Is Your Sex Life series, and we've decided, since we dig in everybody else's pussies and gooches ... I'm so happy I learned that word. Being that we dig into everyone else's gooch, we decided to dig in our own gooches. So today we will be learning-
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:00:40].
Erica: We'll be digging in the gooch of my lovely hoe-host, Kenrya. So-
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't know that I'm ready.
Erica: I know. I was-
Kenrya: I feel like-
Erica: ... totally not ready when you did mine. I was like, "Wait. I got to sit here-"
Kenrya: Yeah. It's a little...
Erica: "... I got to shave my legs for this."
Kenrya: Bitch, I ain't shaved my legs since January.
Erica: Girl, so I didn't shave my ... I mean, I hadn't shaved my legs for a really long time. You know I buy everything, everything I buy, gadgets, widgets, whatever. So I have an at-home waxing kit. So I waxed my leg. I burnt some of myself, so I didn't keep going.
Kenrya: So you got one leg partially waxed?
Erica: I mean-
Kenrya: I mean, I too, would have stopped.
Erica: Okay. This is…
Kenrya: I also would never have done it, because I wouldn't have trusted myself.
Erica: I mean, it was fine. It's just the wax was a little too hot, and then I had to keep going over a particular spot. So I got to work on my technique, but I'll be doing waxing soon. So come on. Bring your hairy back down. I'll do you.
Kenrya: Just pay somebody to ... No. That's one of the things I'd rather pay somebody to do.
Erica: Yeah. I won't be waxing my gooch, but you know. Okay. So let's jump right in. When did you first remember masturbating?
Kenrya: So I don't really know how old I was, but so we had a couch where all the pillows could come off the couch, the bottom cushions, the back cushions, and I definitely remember ... You know I'm an insomniac, and I've always been an insomniac, even as a kid, and I just have these memories of being in the living room on the couch on the floor making shit happen.
Erica: Rubbing one out to go to bed?
Kenrya: No. I mean, probably. Ultimately, that's what helped me fall asleep, but yeah. Everybody was sleep. So the nighttime was my time.
Erica: The nighttime is the right time.
Erica: Okay. So what was your preferred technique?
Kenrya: It was the pillow.
Erica: Was it that couch hunching? Or-
Kenrya: It was always the pillow. It was the couch hunch.
Erica: Okay. All right. How old were you when you had your first kiss?
Kenrya: Okay. So I was in the second grade. So what is that? Seven?
Erica: Seven. Yeah.
Kenrya: Five, six, seven. Something like that. Yeah. It was with a boy who I am currently Facebook friends with, who left our school system shortly after that but still maintained all his friends, and he was-
Erica: Was this-
Kenrya: You never heard of him, because he was-
Erica: Was this the person that somebody found in another country?
Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative).
Erica: Okay. All right.
Kenrya: No. Oh, no. That was high school. No, no. I mean, literally we were babies, babies, babies, babies, and it was just a little chaste. We were in line. You know how they used to make you line up to walk into the building at recess and before school?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: We were standing in line, and we had a little kiss, and that was that. That was my first kiss.
Erica: When we ask that question, first kiss, I always think about first, and everyone else thinks about ...
Kenrya: That? Yeah. I mean, that's the first time I kissed somebody that wasn't my family or auntie or somebody.
Erica: Yeah. Well, my answer was the first time I ... Okay.
Kenrya: I don't remember the first ... I mean ...
Erica: Because it wasn't traumatic.
Kenrya: Well, no. Well, yeah, but it's the-
Erica: You didn't get attacked by an angler fish.
Kenrya: It's the traumatic stuff that I usually can't remember, because you know the way my brain work, which is why my answer's probably going to be "I don't know" to a lot of stuff, because trauma has fucked up my brain.
Erica: It's like Swiss cheese.
Kenrya: It is.
Erica: Your memory's like Swiss cheese.
Kenrya: There's just holes all up and through this bitch. I don't know.
Erica: That's what she said.
Kenrya: Yes. It was probably middle school some time. I don't know. My first serious boyfriend, cross town boyfriend where we made out made out for the first time, I think I was like 14, and I know there was a whole lot of kissing and hunching. So I don't know. Maybe then.
Erica: So you know what I just thought of?
Erica: As a mother of a preteen boy in middle school, them motherfuckers don't brush their teeth. They don't wash their ass properly, and we was out there just kissing the little motherfuckers in our mouth and hunching.
Kenrya: I mean, we probably shouldn't even have been touching their hands, to be honest.
Erica: To be honest. TBH.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah.
Erica: Oh, my gosh.
Kenrya: Now we got COVID on top of everything else, which is why I'm like, "In-person?"
Erica: Yeah, because I literally have to verify that my child has brushed his teeth by either touching his toothbrush or him blowing in my face. So I just-
Kenrya: I check rags to make sure the showers have happened.
Erica: Yeah, and y'all out here just being on top of each other.
Kenrya: Yeah, and I can smell you. So-
Erica: That's disgusting. How old were you when you had a sense of your gender identity?
Kenrya: I think that I have always felt like a girl, but I think that's always because that was what I was told that I was. Nobody back then was asking or ever making any space for you to think that you were anything other than that. I've never felt like the prototypical girly girl or anything like that. Even though you know I love a good shangle dangle, it's not really from a pink-
Erica: Yeah. It's more from your inner "I need sparkles and shine."
Kenrya: Yeah. Exactly. It's not really a gendered thing.
Erica: Not from a "I'm a girl."
Kenrya: Exactly. It's just I like shiny shit, but I hate ... All the stereotypical things that I think that they try to put on you as a person who has been assigned female at birth have never really been my jam. Yeah, but yeah. I've always felt like a girl, and I absolutely feel like a woman. I also am at a point in my life where the idea of gender feels ... I don't know. I just don't care. It just feels very constructed, because it is.
Erica: Yeah. Like we're forcing boxes that don't need to ... Yeah. Yeah. It's like these don't even need to exist. Why are we hung up on them? I always loved the color pink, but I kind of shied away from the color pink just because I feel like it's like one of those bullshit girly colors, and so I was always like "I'm not like that," but now I'm embracing-
Kenrya: You're embracing it. Yes.
Erica: ... the color pink. This nail is broke, so we're just going to do this.
Kenrya: Do that. Yeah.
Erica: Again, it's more of a "I just like this fucking color" and less of a "This is what girls are supposed to like," because I also love blue.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, blue's been my favorite color for my whole life, but also, of course, we know that colors don't have shit to do with gender-
Erica: Yeah. I'm actually going to sing you-
Kenrya: ... which is why I've always been ...
Erica: Keep going.
Kenrya: I'm just saying that's always been weird to me that that's a thing that we do. It's been interesting, I think, in raising my kid and raising myself and seeing how my ideas of gender have changed. I've realized that there were a lot of parts in me that had issues with it even before I had a kid. Think back to the shower invitations that I picked out for you to send. Everything was green and yellow and white, and I registered for everything to be gender neutral, and it was always a really big thing for me to not do that to her, but also I was like, "Well, I might have more kids, and I don't want to be having kids in these stereotypical whatevers," and it was ... You know.
Erica: Listeners, I had to have a come to Jesus with Kenrya, because after her child was born, she finished everything. She packed up stuff and stored it at my house, because I have-
Kenrya: I did.
Erica: ... a lot of space, and so I had to be like, "Girl, we going to get rid of this." Some of it, you willingly let go, but some of the stuff, the stuff that came to my house, you were like, "Well, I want to hold on to it if I have another kid," and I was like, "Bitch, if you have another kid, we going to have all new shit, because we ain't having kids by broke niggas that need old shit," especially because the older her daughter gets ... I mean, I am all for good hand-me-down, because I was just about to say I'm going to send you these pictures of these couches that I'm going to buy off of a friend. I need you to look at them, but yeah. I was like, "Bitch-"
Kenrya: I don't like soft surfaces from other people's homes. You know how I feel. So I'm probably the wrong person to show.
Erica: You just tell me if they look good. Okay? I'll tell you the story behind them.
Erica: But anyway-
Kenrya: I'll put my other shit to the side. No. This is true, and so I donated all of that to a charity that supports people who are getting into homes after experiencing homelessness. I gave it all away.
Erica: Yeah, because I was like, "Girl, even if you do decide to do this again, we ain't doing it the same way. So let's give this baby new energies and all that stuff."
Kenrya: That's true, and nigga, I literally said to myself last night ... Bedtime was so rough last night. I was like, "I ain't doing this shit ever again." That's the first time I said out loud, "Nah. I'm done." There's no 85 percent. There's, "Nah. I'm out."
Erica: Mother's Day, I went to the mall, and I was walking around, and there was these little-
Kenrya: Oh, wait. You were inside a mall?
Kenrya: Oh, wow.
Erica: There was these little kids. I just needed to be out. There was these little kids, and these little motherfuckers were going boneless in the mall, and I was just like, "Girl, ain't no motherfucking way." They was like ... and flopping out and losing their bones and their daddy dragging them and the momma in Bath & Body Works like, "Fuck them kids," and I was just like ... The lord put this on my spirit. The lord knew that this is what I needed to see on Mother's Day.
Kenrya: You needed to see that on that day. Yes.
Erica: I was like, "Ooh. Ooh." I was doing a Heisman past them little kids. I was like, "This is disgusting. Hell no."
Kenrya: Yeah. I remember the last time my kid went boneless, and I was like, "This is why you can't go nowhere in public. If this is how you going to act, then you always going to be at home." Luckily, she's moved past that phase, but now we on some other shit.
Erica: Yeah. She's on passive aggressive teen angst. Tell us about the first time you had partnered sex. How old were you, and what was it like?
Kenrya: I was 18, and I was very much the person who I am now as it related to the first time I had sex. So it was very planned out. It was-
Erica: Wait. First, it was a more or less-
Kenrya: I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you the story.
Erica: No. I'm saying who you were as a person. I feel like the person you are now is, yes, the person that you were then, but more of a "I need to control every aspect of this" than you are-
Kenrya: Well, it wasn't-
Erica: ... as a person now.
Kenrya: Yes. Thank you, but also, this wasn't really about control. This was about planning, because I was a teenager who couldn't just have someone in her home.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah, but ... Okay. So yeah, but I just wanted to also acknowledge that-
Kenrya: Recognize my growth.
Erica: Yes. Exactly.
Kenrya: Thank you. I appreciate that. So It was prom weekend, senior prom. I was with this raggedy nigga-
Kenrya: ... who I had been with all year, yeah, who constantly smelled like Black & Milds and had one long pinky finger that he used to split them shits and ... It's true, and he wore a white tux and a white, furry Kangol that, and-
Erica: That is so 1999.
Kenrya: And Cleveland, and he was getting on my nerves the whole time, and it was a bad day. My dad didn't make it home to see me off. So I got myself dressed on my own and left out of the house with zero fanfare and went to our homegirl's house to take pictures, and he was late. It was not a good day, honestly, but I was so determined to do this thing that I had planned to do. So I had told my dad that everybody was staying at this hotel. That was not true. It was only me and my partner. Nobody else's parents had given them permission, but my dad was like, "Everybody else said okay? All right." So I had booked a hotel room.
Erica: Was it a nice hotel, or like a Knights Inn?
Kenrya: No. It wasn't a motel, although we did have Knights Inn, and I did actually spend my very last time hanging out with this man, this boy, whatever, was at a Knights Inn.
Erica: See? I knew it. I knew it.
Kenrya: It was on your spirit.
Erica: It was on my spirit.
Kenrya: Yeah. That was a whole ’nother situation. No. It was a ... I don't know. Maybe a Holiday Inn. Whatever it was, it had an outdoor pool. It was decent. I wasn't yet as afraid of soft surfaces in random places as I am now, because that shit just icks me out now, but writing a book about bed bugs will do that to you. So it was like this whole plan, and I went and got the room ahead of time and all of this shit, and so again, he getting on my nerves the whole night. He wasn't a fun date, and the year before, I had gone to prom as a junior, because where I went to school, the juniors plan the senior prom, and my junior prom date was fantastic. He was my homeboy. He was the emcee. There was nothing romantic, but we just had a bomb-ass time. Now I'm with this raggedy nigga and did not have a good time, so I was not ... You know how when you have a really good date, by the time you get to the sex, you're primed because you've been having such a good time, you've been laughing, you feel good? There was none of that. But we had built it up as "This is going to be our night." We had played just the tip and all of that stuff before then, but this was like-
Erica: You said you playing just the tip like it was a new type of spades.
Kenrya: I mean, that's what it felt like in the back of my car, or my dad's car. I didn't have no fucking car. On the street, not under a streetlight. But so this was like, "Okay. We going to do this for real," and honestly, I don't even remember much except for that it wasn't much to remember. It was in a hotel room. I know it hurt. I know that I did not enjoy myself. I know that I really only did it because I was 18 and felt like I had planned and I wanted to go through with it.
Erica: This is time.
Kenrya: Yeah, and it didn't even occur to me that I could just be like, "You know, this night don't feel right. I don't want to do this," because I had built it up as this big, huge ... Like we were just talking about on another episode, this whole losing-my-virginity thing was a big fucking deal, and I wanted to go through with it because this is what I had planned, and I had spent money I didn't have to get us in this room and set this mood and buy all of this spermicidal lubricant and all of this shit, and so I did, and yeah. It was lackluster, honestly.
Erica: I think one of the best things that I learned as an adult, and I think we're both really intentional on teaching our children, is that it's okay to change your mind, you know?
Erica: For some reason, you have this "I said it, so I got to do it" in your head, because I mean, you learn "If you say you're going to do something, deliver," yada, yada, yada, but it's so valuable to ... Especially little girls. If you don't want to do it, then don't. You don't have to please everybody. You are pleasing yourself and yourself only. So if...
Kenrya: You can change your mind, and you can leave.
Erica: Yeah. Yup. If not being-
Kenrya: I didn't realize that until I was grown-grown.
Erica: My big age, yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a good thing that you recognize and also that we're teaching our children not to do.
Kenrya: Yeah. For sure. So yeah. That was my first.
Erica: And respect when other people choose to change their mind.
Kenrya: Absolutely. Hundred percent. Yeah. So that was that.
Erica: Okay. When did you first have an orgasm with a partner?
Kenrya: Yeah. I was trying to remember this after I asked you this when we did yours. I'm sure I was in college, because I started having sex senior prom, and I know it wasn't with him. So my guess is my sophomore year. I'm sure one of those times I ended up cumming, in college. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. So I'm thinking now. As a kid, masturbating and orgasms were very different from the first time I had a for-real-with-a-partner orgasm, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: But once I had a for-real-with-a-partner orgasm, then I was able to be like, "Ooh, we going to make that happen when I'm at home alone." Well, not at home alone. When I have my nighttime-is-the-right-time time.
Kenrya: Then you know what you could shoot for ... Although, honestly, to me, they're never the same, and maybe that's because I tend to just rely on clitoral stimulation when I masturbate as opposed to ... Internal stuff doesn't really get it for me when I'm masturbating. So it's never the same as when I got both going when I'm actually having partnered sex and it's like I'm floating. It ain't the same. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah, because it's one of those things like I would rather have somebody else doing it than me, you know? It's something about not-
Kenrya: It's not that for me. It's not because I would rather have somebody else doing it for me. It's because there's so many different things happening at once-
Erica: Well, yeah. That's what I meant.
Kenrya: ... that the sensory ... I got extra hands on me. I got internal and external, and because I'm ... You know. My hands is in the mix too, but there's just so much happening at once that it's like this amazing overwhelm, and I don't get that same thing on my own.
Erica: Yeah, because you trying to hold your phone, play with your toy, and then you drop your phone on your face, like, "Oh, shit," you know?
Kenrya: I'm like the only person who can't really listen to this show to get off, because it's just me.
Erica: You're like, "Bitch, you reading." Yeah. Yeah. One of my family members was like, "I'm listening to the show. I just can't listen to Kenrya read, because that's like my little sister reading." I'm like, "Sorry."
Kenrya: Yeah. That's why I know a few of our friends who can't listen to that part. They'll be like, "Girl, it's too much."
Erica: I just skip over it.
Kenrya: That's what I would do.
Erica: Yep. Okay. What three words would you use to describe sex in your teens?
Kenrya: Scant, because I didn't start until I was 18, planned, and delayed. I was still very much like, "We got to be together for a certain amount of time before we going ..." So it was the first dude, the high-school dude, and then there was another dude my sophomore year. So I guess I was still a teenager then, and I think that's ... I only had sex with two people as a teenager, and with the first dude, it was like ... I don't know. We were prob together a year or year and a half or something like that, and then the second dude, we were ... It was five months, seven months? I don't know. I remember it was a bunch of months, but I also remember that it was fewer. It was a shorter time than with the person before, and then of course, with each person it got ...
Kenrya: Shorter. Yeah.
Erica: Damn. You letting them get cheese.
Kenrya: So yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. Never transactional, but always just ... I threw away this idea that ... I don't know. It wasn't about earning it. It became more about me doing it when I wanted to do it, as opposed to when I thought I was supposed to do it.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. Shedding those expectations is so freeing, and I'm happy that I did, and I'm still working through that in some other areas and other things, but once you let it go, you're just like, "Oh. This is living." Okay. Give me three words for sex in your 20s.
Kenrya: It was fun, it was surface level, and it was ... I don't know. Let surface level be two words.
Erica: Fun, surface, level. Okay.
Kenrya: Level. Yes.
Kenrya: Yeah. So it was fun because I was in my fucking 20s. You'd come up for the weekend, and we would hit the club, and-
Erica: You had the knees and the stamina.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yo. We'd be on them tables, and we'd be wherever we'd be. It was a different time. We'd pop up in random ... Not random cities, but in other cities, and have good old weekends, and it was a fun time, but it was also ... I talked a lot on this show about serial monogamy from me, which was honestly just me not wanting to be alone. So it'd be these long relationships with these men, where I was usually at least mostly sexually satisfied, and then when I would decide that I didn't want to be there anymore, I'd move on, and I'd usually have a few people in rotation and narrow it down and then get into another relationship, and that was what I did, and I got married in my 20s, and I mean, that was not a great experience for me. It wasn't a great experience sexually. It wasn't a great experience emotionally, physically, none of it. It was shit.
Kenrya: So I think all of that is kind of tied up in there, and I say surface level because in my 20s and through my marriage, I was still very much concerned about what other people thought about me. So in general, just walking around with people, strangers, people who I knew, people who I was having sex with, I don't think that I was really ... I hadn't stepped into what it was that I liked. I hadn't stepped into what it was that I wanted. I wasn't really vulnerable enough with any of my partners to be able to have those type of conversations with them, and so I wasn't really getting what I wanted. I was just getting what they were putting down. So absolutely surface level. There was none of the joy that has come with sex in this last decade.
Erica: So yes. Three words for your 30s and your two, three weeks of 40s.
Kenrya: Couple of weeks into 40s? Yeah. Joyful. Man, I have so much fun.
Erica: I love it.
Kenrya: God, it's good. It's joyful. I should have really thought about what these words were going to be. Do you know where I came up with this question, the three-word question?
Erica: No. Where?
Kenrya: So it was when I was at Howard working on a paper and I interviewed DJ Jazzy Jeff, and I asked him to give me three words to describe hip hop when he started and hip hop at the time, which must have been like 2002 or something like that, and he was like, "That's the best question anybody's ever asked me," and so I've used-
Erica: He like
Kenrya: Yeah. I've been using iterations of that question for decades now.
Erica: It's a good one, because you're trying to boil down so much into one word, because fun just isn't enough to say, you know? It's fun.
Kenrya: Yeah, but then it gets you going.
Erica: It's great. It's amazing, but there's so much more to just fun to give it, you know? Words can't describe this properly.
Kenrya: Yeah. Okay. So joyful, vulnerable-
Erica: I'm sorry.
Kenrya: And carefree. Like I was saying, in my 20s, I cared so much, and now I don't care at all.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: You sent me a meme the other day talking about how ... There was the bitch talking about now the quarantine is over and people expect you to come out the house, and she was making excuses, and you was like, "This is you, except for you don't make excuses anymore."
Erica: Like, "I don't want to." Oh, okay.
Kenrya: Yeah. I just don't do things if I don't want to do them, and that extends into my sex life, and not just on a negative part, like not doing things, but I do the things that I want to do. I introduced toys that I want to do. I use positions that I want to use. I don't do anything that I am not interested in doing. I don't care if you're going to judge me. In fact, if I think you're going to judge me, then you're not-
Erica: Then you ain't fucking. Yeah.
Kenrya: ... somebody who I'm going to actually have sex with. Exactly, and it's not ... I think there's a temptation to perhaps view that as some selfishness, and I would wholeheartedly, obviously, disagree. It's more about I've gotten to a place where I know what I want, and I choose to do it with people who not only respect and understand that, but encourage it. It's joyful because, I mean, some of the best times that I have when I'm having sex is when we're laughing as we're experiencing. It's just fun, and it doesn't have all of this stuff heaped on it. It's not that I'm having sex because my partner has been counting the days since I last had a period and now is pressuring me because we haven't had sex in 10 days. True story. It's just there's none of that there. It's just I'm doing it because I want to.
Kenrya: Then the vulnerable part of it is that ... I remember being married and my ex-husband trying to get me to masturbate in front of him, and I was so incredibly uncomfortable, and I didn't want to do it, and I did it because he was pushing me to, which again, this version of Kenrya is like, "Nah. Fuck you." But also, blame goes to him for trying to push me to do something or for pushing me to do something I didn't want to do, but blame goes to me for not being able to stand up for myself and say that it wasn't something that I wanted to do, but also for being married to someone who I didn't feel that I could be vulnerable enough with to do something like that, and I think that the thing that I lacked in previous relationships in my 20s was that I wasn't able to ... Because I cared so much, I wasn't able to let myself go in any way, really. To go back to what you were saying about control, I felt like I had to be very controlled at all times, because I was worried about being judged.
Erica: Control how I'm seen, how I'm perceived, what I ... Yeah. Yeah.
Erica: Vulnerability is a bitch, because I didn't start having really good sex until I was able to be vulnerable, you know?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And not worry about what a nigga thinking about. Tell us about a sexual experience that you remember fondly.
Kenrya: I don't know. So there was this guy who I'd had a little tiny bit of a crush on in college, but everybody boosted his head up, and I don't participate in that, and so it never went anywhere, and then after college, we reconnected. You were there, in New York.
Erica: I don't know.
Kenrya: Yep. It's fine.
Erica: We keep saying we're going to tell each other, and then we forget.
Kenrya: Then we forget.
Erica: Then I'm in the shower like, "Damn. Who was that so-and-so?" So anyway. Okay. Sorry.
Kenrya: So eventually we started hanging out, and I remember it was still very much, again, not able to ... This was definitely 20s and still not really able to just ask for what I want. I mean, everybody knows now. With my current partner, I was like, "Yeah. I want to fuck you," and that was our second date. Back then, I couldn't do it, and I remember he came to visit me, because we lived in different places, and we ostensibly were going to watch a movie. We put one on, and five minutes into it, that was not what was happening.
Erica: You only get past the credits.
Kenrya: Yeah. So we end up in the room, and I mean, again, details are always fuzzy to me, but I remember it was like part of it, I think, was because it was the first time, but it was always good with him, and it wasn't because he was well endowed, because I've talked about him being schmedium before. It was just-
Erica: Was this that person we were-
Kenrya: ... he was very good with his hands.
Erica: ... we were talking as a group, and they were like, "Ooh, he loves some Kenrya"?
Kenrya: No. No. We never had sex.
Erica: Okay. Okay.
Kenrya: No. You know who this person is very well, and-
Erica: I'm writing a note to ask you.
Kenrya: Okay, and I just remember it was in my New York apartment and it was summer. It was hot as hell. So it was just a fan blowing, and remember them fans where it'd blow and so sometimes it be on you and sometimes it don't?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). A good oscillating fan.
Kenrya: Yeah. It was just hot and sweaty, and I'm not one for a long session, but we missed the entire movie, and it was just one of these things where it was just this very long time coming because of all of the years that we had been friends and had never gone there, and I just ... It was one of those situations where I was having flashbacks for the next week of just-
Erica: [crosstalk 00:34:53] flashbacks.
Kenrya: Yeah. Being at work like-
Erica: [crosstalk 00:34:56] drooling like ...
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I picked that one because it's ... When I look back, I've had a lot of really memorable moments since then, especially in this last decade, but I think it's the first time that I had sex where it felt like ... That's going to sound really bleak. I was going to say ... Remember when ... Shug said, "You make it sound like he's just laying on you and going to the bathroom on you." She said, "That's what it feel like."
Erica: Yeah. I was going to say. I was going to say, the first time that you want to. You want-
Kenrya: It's not that I didn't want to before.
Erica: Not that you were ever forced, but it was just like it was desired and you felt it.
Kenrya: Yeah. It was like once you read about it ... Well, we read about it in these books, right? It wasn't just "Oh, we're together, and having sex is a thing that we do," right?
Erica: No. I want your dick in me. That.
Kenrya: Yeah, like I am going to explode. It's all the things that you read about, like I'm going to fucking lose my shit if we don't do this right now. It was the first time I think that I had ever felt real passion in a situation, and-
Erica: That's it. That's all you needed to say.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. That shit imploded. But that was a good moment.
Erica: I'm literally waiting to stop recording so I can ask you who this person is.
Kenrya: If you think about it, you know who it is.
Erica: I don't. Okay. Was this the Easter Day situation?
Kenrya: No. Hell nah.
Erica: See? I don't know. Okay. Anyway.
Kenrya: That was two seconds.
Erica: Yeah. That's why I'm like, "It couldn't have been that.
Kenrya: No. I'll tell you later.
Erica: Yeah. Okay. I'm about to start dropping too many hints. Okay.
Erica: What does your sex life look like now?
Kenrya: It's the fucking best. I am a lover of books. I am a lover of music. We call my dad the king of R&B. I grew up listening to all of the R&B songs.
Erica: Your Daddy and them CDs.
Kenrya: Oh, my God, and before that, the fucking vinyl, and I just ... You know, you hear all of this stuff, and honestly I never ... Even as I was always listening to these songs where folks were declaring their undying love for people, there's always been this very cynical part of me that rolled my eyes at that shit, like, "Okay. Yeah. Hearts. Flowers. Fuck you," and some of that is like that cool-girl thing. You're too cool. You're above it.
Erica: I'm too cool to ... Yeah.
Kenrya: “I don't celebrate Valentine's Day.” Fuck, what? Nah. So the concept of coming up against the love of your life has always felt very foreign to me, and for good reason. I had never really truly been in what I would look back on as a healthy, loving ... There was like one in there that was okay, but just a truly healthy, loving relationship? Nah.
Erica: I saw something on Twitter or Instagram, I don't know, and it said, "Healthy and loving relationships look like they're fake," or something like that, "if you've never experienced one," and that's ... I totally get it. I find myself very cynical at times. I'm like, "Ain't no fucking way these niggas that in love," but I have to check myself. I mean, not with you, because honey, being up on there, you'd be like, "Bitch, y'all made for each other," but I have to check myself and be like, "Yes. It's possible, and that's why the fuck you single right now, because you're holding out for that," you know?
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Erica: It's possible.
Kenrya: Because it's there.
Erica: It's attainable, you know? Yeah. So okay.
Kenrya: I was cynical, and so a part of me thought maybe it was attainable for other people, but it wasn't even that I was actively thinking it wasn't attainable for me. I never thought about it. I don't know. I just didn't think it was a thing, and then it was, and now it is, and I mean, even sometimes talking about my relationship on this show, I sometimes be like, "I know these bitches probably tired of me. They're probably tired of hearing me talk about how good my man is," where I'm like, "Well, actually, nigga." But just know, God, y'all have no idea.
Erica: Well, I will say that I am so happy to see you-
Kenrya: Y'all have no idea what I went through before that.
Erica: Yeah. I'm happy to see it. I think a bunch of us got together and ... Are you crying?
Kenrya: A little. Yeah.
Erica: I love it.
Kenrya: I don't want to cry on the show.
Erica: Bitch, it's fine.
Kenrya: I went through a whole lot before I got to this point. I talk about a lot of stuff on this show, but y'all don't really know.
Erica: Nope. Y'all got the tip, just the tip of it.
Kenrya: Yeah. So to-
Erica: So let me just kind of love on you a little bit. I love your relationship, because I see his love for you, and his love for you isn't just a romantic love. It's like an all-encompassing love. He loves it all. He's got that wrap-around love, like you, the kid. You're going to make sure that I'm good, because if I'm not good, you not going to be good. So let me just shut the fuck up and make sure Erica good too, and I want to see her smile, you know? It's beautiful, and you are so deserving of it. We all talked about this at your birthday party, because we were literally lit. We were litty like a titty, and he would just come poke his head in, "Y'all need some more liquor? Y'all need some more champagne? Let me go get y'all some food." It was like, "Yeah," and so I think you're so deserving of it, especially because we think about-
Kenrya: I think we're all deserving of it, but damn. It's like a testimony-
Erica: We've seen it.
Kenrya: ... like God, y'all know where I came from.
Erica: Yeah. I mean, we've all seen it, and even more than that, I think some of our other friends love it that much more because they remember ... I saw it as it was happening, so it was kind of like the frog being boiled. I didn't know how fucked up it was until it was fucked up, and I'm like, "God, how you going to get out of it?" whereas our friends was like, "Okay. I'm going to sit down and tell y'all this story," and then they got smacked in the face with it, and so then they're like, "Oh, my God. I can't believe it. You deserve so much more," and then you're actually living it, and it's beautiful to see. You give me hope. You give me hope, because honey, if he don't love me like that, get the fuck on.
Kenrya: Our therapist told me two weeks ago ... We were talking about something, and she was like, "I talked to thousands of people during this quarantine," and she was like, "When I tell you that all of them hate their niggas," ... She was like, "The cis straight women hate their niggas. Gay niggas hate their niggas." She was like, "Everybody-"
Erica: Niggas hating niggas.
Kenrya: Yeah. She was like, "Everybody is over it." She was like, "You are the only person who is probably even more all in on their person at this point." She was like, "You give me hope." She literally said the same thing that you just said, and I was like ... I told him, and of course you know this nigga got a big head, but yeah. So all that to say my sex life is awesome, and that is in large part due to the fact that I am legitimately in love for real.
Erica: Yeah. It's hard to have a great sex life when you don't like the motherfucker. I mean, maybe if you like toxic dick, but yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. No. You know that's absolutely it. I mean, literally, at one point I wasn't even-
Erica: Mind and body follow one another.
Kenrya: Right. So I remember not being able to get wet in my marriage, and this nigga was like a hotep, so he was trying to make me take some Dr. Sebi shit, and-
Erica: We going to stop you from having your period so that you can get wet.
Kenrya: I ain't had no other complaints. It was literally that my body was like, "Nah. Nah. Nah. Nah. Let's stop this."
Erica: The body keeps the score.
Kenrya: Exactly. So yeah. It's great.
Erica: On average, how many times do you have some sort of sexual contact in a week?
Kenrya: Maybe three or four? Yeah. Usually, once during-
Erica: Are there certain times of day? [inaudible 00:44:41].
Kenrya: Yeah. So I prefer daytime always just because I be tired and my fatigue is very, very fucking real. So it's made it even worse, where it's hard for me to get to late in the day. By the time my kid goes to bed, it's 9:00, 9:30, and then he comes over after that, and then I'm struggling. So typically ends up being in the mornings, and then we usually are able to get in another couple of sessions on the weekends when she's with her dad, because we can just be wherever whenever. But on a typical week, we'll say three to five, depending on if she’s home or she not. So it feels good and comfortable.
Erica: That's a lot.
Erica: That's a lot.
Erica: That's good though. You know what? That totally brought me back to ... You were in a relationship where we have sex every single day, and we was like "Bitch, don't tell my husband," but now you're in that same place, but it's very different. You're like, "Yeah. We fucking a lot. We fucking fucking."
Kenrya: But that was-
Erica: But it's ... You know.
Kenrya: Yeah, but it's because we want to, and back then it was because I was basically being coerced to, and I think about that. I think about that conversation sometimes, and I remember ... God, I was so naïve, and harmful, honestly. I remember in that conversation saying, "Yeah. I have sex whenever he wants to have sex," and I was positing that as if that was me being a good wife, and it's fucking bullshit. I was having sex whenever he wanted to have sex, because he was a fucking narcissist and an asshole, and if I didn't, it would turn into a whole thing, and I pray that I didn't harm anybody by saying that. You know what I mean?
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. I think your-
Kenrya: Now I'm only doing what I want.
Erica: ... outspokenness now has made up for that conversation.
Kenrya: I hope so, because holy shit. Bad advice. Bad advice. Bad, man. Yeah.
Erica: How long does a session typically last?
Kenrya: Well, if it's a morning quickie, like my kid is walking around the house, probably about 15 minutes. If it's a middle of the day, she not here, it could be anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.
Erica: Is this 30 minutes of complete action, or 30 minutes of like we playing and we stop and watch a little TV and then roll back over and do it again?
Kenrya: No. I mean, that's continuous. That's-
Erica: A complete action? Full activity.
Kenrya: ... foreplay, toy. Yeah. Yeah.
Erica: I'm so lazy.
Kenrya: No. Girl, please, and then sometimes ... Last week, we woke up early for who knows what reason. I gave him head. So that was like 15 minutes. He hopped in the shower. We laid back down and started watching something, and then he back on top of me. So then we had penetrative sex. So that was two separate situations, but all told, it was probably ... Each one was 15 minutes, and it was probably about an hour, because there was 30 minutes in between, but no. Usually, that's continuous. Each person is giving and getting and getting a toy and doing a couple of this position and this person cum, and then doing that position and that person cum, and then we done. Yeah.
Erica: Okay. Where do y'all usually do it?
Kenrya: It usually really depends on whether or not my kid is here.
Erica: [crosstalk 00:48:47].
Kenrya: That also depends. So if she's here, it's the bed, period. That's just where it is, because that's the room we can go in and lock the door. If she's not here, it's usually either the bed or the couch that I'm sitting on right now. I use bleach wipes and a towel, because I'm very ... There's always a towel, because the leather is cold, and there's always bleach wipes after. It's funny. So we used to alternate whose house we stayed in on the weekends, because you know he lives literally-
Erica: Yeah. I noticed that shit stopped.
Kenrya: He lives close. Once the quarantine happened, we stopped alternating, and part of it was because his HVAC-
Erica: He lives in a more-
Kenrya: ... sucks in his place.
Erica: He what?
Kenrya: The HVAC sucks in his place, so it'd be hot as hell once it gets hot outside, and then yeah. He lives in a ... There's other people around. Not in his ... He's in an apartment building, and we can hear the neighbors fucking, so I know they can hear us fucking. But that ain't why we stopped. It was mostly temperature control. It gets too fucking hot in his place, or it's too cold. Here, you know how I keep my house.
Erica: It's like a sauna in that joint. I come in there, and I'm like ...
Kenrya: So imagine what I mean when I say it's hot in his place, if it's ... Yes, and then it's cold in the winter. So it's just more climate control here, and it just started to feel easier, and so now we ... Yeah, but over there, it was wherever we happened to be.
Erica: He literally just came in and sat behind me like ... My dog. When he did that little birthday video, I definitely thought he was in a hostage situation. Hit room was giving very much-
Kenrya: That was his office, I think.
Erica: It was giving very much "Hold up the paper to prove what day of the week it is."
Kenrya: Well, he is a man, but he does ... You know. He's a man, but that place be sparkling when I come over there. He always cleans before I come.
Erica: It's not that it wasn't clean. It was just real-
Erica: ... sparse. We'll go back to your word. Sparse.
Kenrya: Yes. Yeah. My place has art on the wall. Well, now he has art, but it's a man's, and he always says he only got that place for me, because the place he was living before that ...
Kenrya: I only went there like once or twice, and he was like, "Okay. I'm going to move."
Erica: I have a friend-
Kenrya: So he literally moved for me.
Erica: I have a friend who recently started dating, and she was like, "Do men really live like this?" and I'm like, "Yeah. They do," especially if-
Kenrya: They do.
Erica: I have a friend, and his house is ... It's just him, and his son who's older will come and stay every now and then. His younger son comes and stay. He has shared custody and stuff, but that house ... I'm like, "Don't you miss my bed? Don't you like my mattress?" because bruh.
Kenrya: You know what's funny though?
Kenrya: He has a better mattress.
Erica: Well, now you know how-
Kenrya: I miss-
Erica: Now you know that your mattress will be the guest room mattress.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah. No. We going to burn this shit. Yeah. I miss his mattress. We wake up, both of us, with fucked up backs half the time, but it doesn't make sense to buy another mattress for my bed, because this bed is so small, and when we move, we won't be using that shit. So we just kind of toughing it out, but it's like ... We all know his bed is so much better, so much better.
Erica: I love it.
Erica: You've gushed a lot, which I appreciate and love. Is there anything else that ... Well, what's the best part about your sex right now?
Kenrya: It's fun. It's just fun as hell. It's just-
Erica: I love it.
Kenrya: Yeah. I enjoy it. It never feels like a chore. It never feels like something I got to get through. It's just something that I do because I want to do it and because it's fun as hell, and I always cum.
Erica: Yeah. Unless you don't want to.
Kenrya: Yeah. Only time I don't cum is if I don't want to. Yeah.
Erica: What's the most frustrating part?
Kenrya: I think the most frustrating part is trying to leave ... Well, two. Okay. Two things. One, just trying to be quiet. I'm not quiet. Well, I am quiet, but I'm not quiet in that situation, and so trying to not attract attention to myself is tough, because yeah. My kid is not a baby anymore. So yeah, and then the other part is sometimes I have to work at leaving behind the old attitudes that I brought to sex because of the harmful relationships I was in, so I've caught myself ... I remember it was some time last year. I woke up, and I was like, "Oh, he probably want to have sex." I was like, "But I don't really feel like having sex, but I should have sex," and I had to talk myself through, like, "I don't have to have sex with him just because he probably wants to if I don't want to."
Erica: And he's a grown-ass man. So if he wants to have sex, he'll say something.
Kenrya: He'll say something, and then I'll either do it or I won't.
Kenrya: But there's so much residual having lived that way for so long that I sometimes find myself trying to fall back into that or being worried about it or feeling like he's going to be upset with me if I don't feel like it, because that has been my past experience. Trauma is fucking real, and it informs so much of the ways that we carry ourselves, and so a lot of my work on myself is trying to not fall into the patterns that trauma has tried to create for me, and it doesn't happen often, but when it does, having to have those conversations with myself and reminding myself of the reality that I have now versus the one that I had where that attitude was born ... But what really helps is, when I have those moments, I talk to him about them. Yeah.
Erica: See? Again, vulnerability. Are there things that can keep you from being in the mood?
Kenrya: Just being sleepy.
Kenrya: That's really it, and sometimes because I've been dealing with all this-
Erica: Health stuff.
Kenrya: ... shit with my health. Yeah. If there's a day where I've had ... Literally, there was a day last week where I had four or five doctor's appointments. Part of that was fatigue, but part of that was also my brain was going on all of that, and so there was nothing in me that wanted to do that, but then there are times that ... That's not universal. We talked about comfort, right? Where-
Erica: You need that. Yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. Come rub on my booty, please. That's what I need, which inevitably turns into us having sex, but yeah. Usually, it's fatigue. I'm just too tired. Yeah.
Erica: How often do you masturbate now?
Kenrya: Not very often. Maybe the last time I masturbated was last year.
Erica: Bitch. Last night for me. Jesus Christ.
Kenrya: I think it's because I'm having so much sex.
Erica: Yeah. So much good sex.
Kenrya: Yeah, and then that's ... I did it, and then he came over, and then we had sex.
Erica: It was like, "Now I'm primed up. Let's get going."
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, sometimes it comes, like if I'm trying to anal train, then I'll masturbate as part of that, but the last time I even anal trained, I didn't. It was just a shower situation. So no. It's been a while.
Erica: What's your favorite technique when you do? Well, back in six months ago.
Kenrya: I know. I have a little wand with an egg on it, which we, I think, in the first season or something ... Yeah. I use that.
Kenrya: It gets the job done.
Erica: Do you ever have trouble turning off the day and just focusing on body pleasure?
Kenrya: I mean, only on those days where my medical stuff is swirling in my head. Other than that, no. No. Again, it's the fatigue that gets me, but that's what mornings are for.
Erica: Fresh as a daisy.
Erica: What would you change about your sex life if you could just snap your fingers and make it so?
Kenrya: Okay. I know. I wish that I could ... I'm sure that one day I will, but I am 40 years old, and I have never cum from head. Yeah, and not for lack of trying. Somebody's made it their mission, but I just don't ever get there.
Erica: We know who that somebody is.
Kenrya: I get in my head, and I'm like, "Oh, it's taking a long time," and "Oh, let's just move to the bed."
Erica: “He must be tired.”
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and less of that now, because I've gotten better at that.
Erica: So you're just closer to the goal.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah, but now a lot of times, it's just like, "Yo, nigga. I'm tired, and I'm going to cum. So let's do what we do," and so I stop him and [crosstalk 00:59:46].
Erica: “Come on. Assume the position. You know what's about to happen.”
Kenrya: Impatient ass. Yeah. It's mostly about my impatience more than anything else. So yeah. I would like to see it. People talk about that being a good ... It's just never happened for me. Yeah.
Erica: What's a sex best practice that you want to share with our listeners?
Kenrya: Get out of your head. You can't be fully in your head and in your body at the same time.
Erica: How do you get out of your head?
Kenrya: A lot of therapy. I remember that one of the things that my body is here for is to give me pleasure and that I spend however many fucking hours of the day working and making my brain the main organ that I'm using, and now it's time to see what that pussy do. So let that go.
Erica: That'll be the quote for this episode. Yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah. Just let that go, and just ... Oh, man. Close your eyes and-
Erica: Yeah. I'm not one of those meditation mindfulness people, because I'll be like, "Well, hm," but I have found that when you meditate, and they say, "Think about how your body feels on the bed and the brush of the blankets against your skin," ... So when I need to get out of my mind, I focus on what is happening.
Erica: His thumb is here in my handle, my gut handle, that thing right where you hit the button, that kind of thing. So that's what helps me. I just think it's important to share, because you always say, "Don't think about it."
Kenrya: It's easy to say, "Get out of your head." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm with you. Usually, I close my eyes, and I kind of try to ... So I feel this hand is on my thigh. I see the hand on my thigh in my mind's eye, and I focus on it, and then I'm like, "Where is my hand?" So I just-
Erica: Okay. You enjoying this too much. Okay.
Kenrya: Again, it's-
Erica: Yeah. You-
Kenrya: I breathe.
Erica: Eyes started rolling. Baby, not this time. Not right now. Do you have any must-use tools?
Kenrya: Oh, yeah. We put it on the show. It's that little thing that I use. You and I use it differently, but yeah. Listen.
Erica: Yeah. That thing is a ...
Erica: That's a beast.
Kenrya: Yeah. Every time. Listen.
Erica: It's a beast.
Kenrya: It never fucking misses. It just doesn't. It doesn't miss.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. No. That. We'll put it in the show notes. That's-
Erica: Again, because baby, you need it.
Erica: Would you rather give up partnered sex or masturbation?
Erica: Why? You're like-
Kenrya: Because it's not the same.
Erica: ... "Bitch, it's obvious." You ain't masturbated since December.
Kenrya: I've been in relationships where I would have chosen the masturbation, but yeah. Like we were talking about at the top of the show, the orgasms ain't the same, and I want that "Oh, God," and also those multiples, which I'm a very big fan of. Yeah.
Erica: Girl, [inaudible 01:03:33]. Okay. What do you hope people learn from our trek through your sex life?
Kenrya: God. I hope that folks listening or watching this learn that trauma can have you really fucked up, but it doesn't have to be the end of your story. Not to be all on some “Polly” shit, but I never like to use the-
Erica: “Pollyanna,” or polyamorous?
Kenrya: Oh. Nigga, I'm a nigga. Not “Pollyanna.” “Polly” with Phylicia Rashad and motherfucking Keshia Knight Pulliam “Polly.”
Erica: Well, wasn't she “Pollyanna”? That was her full name, right?
Kenrya: Yeah. Well, the white version of the movie was called “Pollyanna”. The Black version was “Polly.”
Erica: Oh, okay. All right. Nevermind. Okay.
Kenrya: That's another deep cut.
Erica: Yeah. Okay. You get three points for seeing that one. Okay.
Kenrya: Yeah. I watched that movie constantly. That was my shit.
Erica: [crosstalk 01:04:52] watch it.
Kenrya: Oh, it's so good.
Erica: See if it stood up.
Kenrya: Yeah. Ooh, okay. I'm going to watch it while I work today. That shit can be real, real, real shitty. You can be in the hole. You could be smelling nothing but shit, and you could be seeing nothing but shit, but that doesn't-
Erica: Covered in shit.
Kenrya: Covered in it. Breathing it in. Fucking don't see a way out of it. But one, you can always leave. You can always leave. Now, not to simplify, because I also went through some shit trying to leave. I know that that shit's hard too, but you can invite people into and be vulnerable and get help, and they can help you leave, hopefully, God willing, and that even if you never dreamed that there would be a day when you didn't have to smell shit or look at shit or breath in shit or touch shit or taste shit, that that day is actually a possibility. Yeah. It's possible.
Erica: So what is turning you on today?
Kenrya: I don't know. This went better than I thought it was going to go. That's a turn on.
Erica: I think it was great.
Kenrya: I am wearing two of the lipsticks that y'all gave me for my birthday layered on top of each other, and I really like the color. So that makes me feel really good. That's turning me on, and God, it's almost the weekend. I'm tired.
Erica: What you doing on Saturday?
Kenrya: I don't know. What you doing on Saturday?
Erica: Oh, nevermind.
Kenrya: None of your business.
Erica: All right, y'all.
Kenrya: You're going to have to wait and see. Her birthday is coming up, y'all.
Erica: She's planning a little birthday something. Yeah. Okay. So this is Erica and Killa, your two hoe-hosts, making it clap. Oh. Thanks for joining us.
Kenrya: Yes. We love y'all, and we are always glad that y'all choose to spend some of your time with us. That's a big fucking deal, because-
Erica: You could be anywhere tonight, but you're here with me.
Kenrya: But you're here with us. Exactly.
Erica: (singing). That's the Jay-Z unplugged that I still listen to. Like that shit-
Kenrya: Do you really?
Erica: ... [crosstalk 01:07:46] yesterday. Oh, my God. I still listen to that.
Kenrya: The only one of his albums that I listen to now is the Linkin Park album, that mashup that you hate when I play it in the car. Whatever, bitch. That's my shit. I love that.
Erica: Girl, that, and I listen to the Black album. I still listen to Jay-Z.
Kenrya: See? This is the Black album, but it's mixed with Linkin Park, and it's so fucking good, and he also, to me, is the weak link. I mean, whatever.
Erica: Yeah. I was kind of like, "How'd he end up in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and not Biggie?"
Kenrya: You know I used to work-
Erica: But anyway.
Kenrya: ... at a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. I just-
Erica: What is that?
Kenrya: Yeah. I used to work at a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in college, because Cleveland. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't begrudge him the spot. You know, "When I come back like Jordan wearing the 4-5," he could have not. He could have not. He could have just retired, and that would have been fine. That's all I'm saying.
Erica: Off in the yonder. All right, y'all. That's enough. I need to find out who she's talking about. Have a good one.
Kenrya: Oh, yes. Bye.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now on your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/ TheTurnOnPodcast so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast, and you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: Don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.
Erica: You can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch, or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to sex therapist Jenifer Smith about how improved communication, a good book and some excellent porn can improve your sex life.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today, we're talking to Jenifer Smith, pronouns she and her. Jenifer has been providing relationship and sex advice to couples and individuals for 13 years.
Kenrya: She has a double master's degree in marriage and family therapy and mental health counseling, and is also a sex therapist.
Kenrya: She's currently the co-host of the Love, Lust and Lies podcast, which can be found on all podcast streaming platforms. Thanks so much for joining us today, Jenifer.
Jenifer Smith: Thank you for having me.
Erica: So again, thank you. We appreciate you coming out. When I first met you, I was like, she's got to come on to The Turn On. So I appreciate you making time.
Jenifer Smith: It took like a year in the making.
Erica: I know. Things have been leading up to this.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I like a good climax. That's okay.
Erica: Hey, hey, hey. Tell us a little bit about your background and how it brought you to doing this work.
Jenifer Smith: My background actually started in radio. In college, I used to host a sex talk radio show and the show was already in existence when I got on it. And funny enough, the guy that I hosted the show with back then is the guy I host my podcast with now, 16 years later.
Erica: Oh, wow.
Erica: Full circle.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. So talking about those topics of sex, love, relationships, dating is what really started to drive me and really fueled me to talk to people about relationships.
Jenifer Smith: And so I wrote for a sex advice column for a magazine for four years after graduation. And I was like, yeah, this seems more like a calling than it is a hobby now.
Jenifer Smith: So that's when I decided to become a therapist. But that-
Erica: Was your major in college therapy or anything like that? Or were you like an econ major or some shit?
Jenifer Smith: Communications.
Jenifer Smith: Communications was my major. PR was my concentration. If you talked to me back then, I was going to be a hard-hitting publicist. And then, that's just not what happened.
Kenrya: Oh, same. That was my specialization too.
Jenifer Smith: Yes. It's funny how you use those skills-
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: ... in a career change. So people ask me-
Kenrya: We use them for this show, shit.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, people ask me all the time, "Well, how did you get to doing TV or radio or magazines?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm a communications major, and PR and media is always going to be number one for me."
Jenifer Smith: And so now, being able to use therapy in that same platform is pretty dope to combine my worlds together.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's awesome. What did you want to be when you grew up?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, a publicist and a lawyer.
Kenrya: You're like, just give me all the coins.
Jenifer Smith: Let me talk for a living and I'm set.
Erica: And now you talk about masturbation.
Jenifer Smith: Now, I'm talking about masturbation, the gift that keeps on giving.
Erica: Yes, yes. Okay, so when we asked you to come along, we wanted to talk about living your best sex life. On the podcast, we read a lot of erotica, which most people's fantasies of what their best sex life is. So what does that mean to you? What does the best sex life mean to you?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, that's a really good question. The best sex life to me is one where both partners are equally pleasured all the time.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: And that comes with just even conversation in physical sense of sex or intimacy or foreplay, in all areas that you're just deliciously pleasured with your partner. And that's how I look at it-
Erica: Oh, I like that, delicious.
Jenifer Smith: Because for me ... Yeah, because for me, I need good conversation to even make me feel aroused, to want to be intimate with you.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: So for me, I need it all across the board.
Kenrya: Yeah. On the other side of that coin, what things do you think tend to stand in the way of people having the best sex life of their dreams?
Jenifer Smith: Communication, I would say is number one. Since I've been a therapist, that's probably what I've heard the most is communication. People aren't able to communicate what their needs are.
Jenifer Smith: And a lot of times, people aren't communicating with themselves of what their pleasure points are or what it takes to get them off, or even wanting to have that conversation of what are their real insecurities about their body here about being intimate, which then prevents you from getting close to somebody else. So I would say communication for sure.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Do you see a difference in communication? I'm thinking about stereotypes that people have, right? That men are poor communicators. Do you see a difference in how communication goals in terms of the orientations and the makeup of the partnerships? You know what I mean?
Jenifer Smith: For sure, which is funny that you say that because I feel like men are the better communicators with what they want sexually. Women are the ones that actually lack that communication.
Jenifer Smith: And they usually lack communication because one, they haven't explored their own body. Two, they are afraid to actually communicate what they want because afraid of judgments, or they've opened up to somebody else before and that person shamed them or put them down. And now it feels like it's unsafe to share what you really want.
Erica: You know that's interesting. I was doing a class last night about sex and technology, and so a lot of it was porn. Well, the first part of it was talking a lot about porn.
Erica: And one of the things that she mentioned was that she finds that couples that watch porn together tend to communicate their desires better in relationships, or just people that watch porn are able to better articulate their desires.
Erica: And the study show what ... Most people under-report. But anyway, the studies show that-
Kenrya: Oh, how much porn they watch?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, definitely.
Erica: The studies show that men watch more porn than women. And so I think that goes hand in hand with what you just said about the fact that men are more ... They're able to say, "I want this," because they've seen that happen in porn.
Jenifer Smith: Oh, for sure. I think I agree with that a hundred percent, Erica. I think women definitely under report it because of the judgment and the shame that come ... And it's funny enough, as long as I've been doing this work, most of the shame come from other women. It's not even coming from men.
Erica: Yup, yup.
Kenrya: Listen, that's real. A scroll through fucking Black Twitter will show you that.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. And that's sad because there are porn that you can watch that is, I would say approachable for couples because I don't think all porn-
Jenifer Smith: ... is applicable to everybody's sex life.
Jenifer Smith: But there are some good safe porn that you can go watch as a couple, even if it's your first couple of times watching it, where you can have a dialogue about it.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: And people have to actually take the actual, sometimes the actual intercourse out of it. And just talk about, what is it that you see? What is it that you like out of this? Do you like the way she responds when he does that?
Jenifer Smith: Talking about how you act, what the experience is. And I think that people miss that a lot of the time. They miss what the experience is supposed to be about.
Erica: Yeah. So what things do you think people should consider when they're assessing their current sex life and where they want it to be?
Jenifer Smith: Hmm, that's a good question. Are you happy? Are you satisfied? Do you ever think about stepping outside of the relationship to meet your sexual needs?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenifer Smith: Those would be a few, I think of voice assess.
Kenrya: At what point do you need to be concerned? Okay. So we all ... At least, I got a bit of imagination. So we've heard from lots of folks who have their fantasies and have their what if people and have all these things that go on in their head.
Kenrya: How do you know when you cross the line between just fantasizing about something that's a little different and maybe being about to cross over that line?
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, I've heard it so many different ways too. I mean, because some people, that's all they think about is somebody else while they're having sex with their current partner. And I think that that gets to be a very dangerous territory if it's an actual ... Okay, like-
Kenrya: Like a real person that's walking around on earth.
Jenifer Smith: Right. I mean, listen. I dream about Michael B. Jordan sometimes when I'm having sex, but that doesn't mean he's tangible to me. But if you're dreaming about the person that you work with-
Erica: The secretary.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, the person that you work with that's a tangible person that you could actually get it from them, then I think it's kind of dangerous territory if you're not communicating with your partner.
Jenifer Smith: And I think that that's also part of communication is if you're fantasizing about different things and you don't feel like you could share that with your partner, there might be something there with that communication.
Jenifer Smith: You don't feel like it's a safe space to actually share that, because I think it's important for couples to be able to share what their desires and fantasies are and explore them if you choose to.
Kenrya: You said earlier that a lot of what you see is that women are having a bit of a more difficult time expressing what it is that they need to be able to live into that best sex life.
Kenrya: I'm wondering, are there ... Can we talk a bit about what are the special considerations that come when you're talking about Black women and Black non-binary folks? What comes into play often that keeps us from being able to really seize that pleasure?
Jenifer Smith: A lot of the times, it comes from ... And I'm going to put my therapist hat on now. It comes a lot from the way that you were brought up.
Jenifer Smith: If you were raised in a family where sex education wasn't something that was an open dialogue and you learned about sex and other various forms that weren't always the safest environment, most women, most Black women are not coming into the relationship open or ready to communicate about it if they never had that space before.
Jenifer Smith: And if they've brought it up before ... And these are different examples that I've heard. If they have brought it up before with a previous partner, they were either shamed about it. They might've been sexually abused, and then that may have been used against them also and the information they would have shared.
Jenifer Smith: And within the girlfriend circles. I have plenty of women ... I teach a blowjob class and I've been teaching it for three years.
Jenifer Smith: And a lot of the Black women said that they would, during their girlfriend nights, would tell their girlfriends about giving their man head or giving them a hand job in the movies or something like that. And they were shamed in their girlfriend circles about doing things like that.
Jenifer Smith: And that stopped them from wanting to communicate with anybody else about it, and even their partner about it, because now it was something shameful.
Jenifer Smith: They were told only white women do that. And that just creates this whole stigma of it's not safe for me to talk about it with anybody.
Kenrya: Yeah. They will never survive in our friend group.
Erica: Girl, I'm like ... I remember we were at Benihana and I was showing a dick pic. Oh my God, we were like ... You know how at Benihana you're at the table with other families?
Erica: I was like, "Look at this. He came in slow motion." They was like, "Erica, girl, put that fucking phone down."
Kenrya: I mean, remember I came downstairs the other day and y'all bitches were stimulating what y'all thought I must've been doing upstairs when I wasn't with y'all. Like ...
Jenifer Smith: The question is: were you doing it?
Kenrya: Yes, I was.
Erica: Yes, you was, you was, you was.
Kenrya: They were correct. They know me well.
Erica: Yeah, we were down here kicking it hard and ... Yeah. And she came downstairs and was like ... I was like, "Yeah, bitch because you would've been down here kicking it with us if you weren't upstairs doing all that nasty shit."
Kenrya: I mean, a time for everything.
Jenifer Smith: Time for everything.
Erica: All the single gals. It was like ... Was it all the single gals? Except for the first, it was all the single gals. So you were fucking on behalf of all.
Jenifer Smith: I need to be in that circle. I'm the single one amongst my friends. And I get a pass because I'm a sex therapist and they just always assume I'm going to talk about some nasty shit, but I'm like, I need to be around other nasty single women that also could talk freely about this stuff.
Kenrya: Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Erica: Come over, kick it. We get it in over here. I think our ... Yeah, we did a Zoom call on Friday night and I pulled out all my toys and I was-
Jenifer Smith: Yes.
Erica: ... showing them different butt plugs-
Jenifer Smith: Yes.
Erica: ... and lubes, and this is my favorite collar. And this is my favorite whip. Someone was like, "Huh?" The other ones were like, "Drop that link."
Kenrya: It takes all kinds, but at the end of the day, we're really big on not yucking anyone's yum, right?
Jenifer Smith: No.
Kenrya: So if it ain't your thing, that's okay. It just ain't your thing.
Jenifer Smith: That's okay. But it's the dialogue, because even if you're not into it, I at least want my friends to be educated about it because I don't know what other conversations they might be having with their other circle of friends or with their partners for that matter.
Jenifer Smith: I want everybody always to be informed about other things because people, adults assume that sex education stops somewhere at school. And if you didn't get it at-
Erica: It never started at school. How about that?
Jenifer Smith: I mean, right. Some people didn't get it at school. I was very fortunate and I had a lot of great sex education very young. And I had it all throughout grade school, middle school and high school. So I was very fortunate, but I know other people weren't and I'm like-
Erica: What state were you in? I don't want to get too-
Jenifer Smith: I was in Pennsylvania.
Jenifer Smith: And so-
Kenrya: That's interesting.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. And so I'm like, now as adults, it is your choice and responsibility to educate yourself about sex and about different products, different lubricants, adult stores, the different kinds of porn.
Jenifer Smith: Everybody has access to that. So if you're not educating yourself about it, I think you're doing a real disservice to yourself and to your partner or future partners about different things that you could just be educated about.
Erica: Yeah, and I'd like to think of sex and pleasure as a form of self care.
Jenifer Smith: Absolutely.
Erica: I think that we spend so much time on spas and candles and even the boring part of self care, like I'm going to iron my clothes the night before, but ... I don't know, cumming is a-
Kenrya: You get free ass orgasm.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that's just ... Cumming is ... We talked to someone and she said, "I masturbate every morning to get my day started."
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: And I'm like, "Fuck yeah."
Jenifer Smith: Some people drink coffee, some people masturbate.
Jenifer Smith: To me, the serotonins come out the same way.
Erica: Exactly. And so this is ... I try to ... I am one of the ... I mean, we talk a lot among my friend group, but I'd make it a point to be kind of the I'm this. I swing hard on this side of the pendulum where it's like, y'all going to know all my details, so that at least you're comfortable sharing a little bit more about yours or you're comfortable asking. So yeah.
Erica: So we know you're a sex therapist. How do you think sex educators and therapists can help people evolve their sex lives? How can they make them change it and grow?
Jenifer Smith: Well, I have found that you have to make it really approachable for women. You have to ... People always ask me how do I do couples therapy? Because they just assume that every man is coming on to me, and I'm like, that's not the case. But like-
Kenrya: I never thought that that would be a thing.
Jenifer Smith: I mean, I say that was not why I got into it. That was not my thought, but it was like ... I always used to say, for couples therapy, you have to be pretty but approachable enough for the woman, but for the man, you have to be attractive and informative and let him know it's a safe space.
Jenifer Smith: And I feel like sex education and sexual health is the same way. We have to make it an inviting space. I think a lot of times on social media, so many people are showing dildos or pocket pussies or bullets or something like that.
Jenifer Smith: And a man is already intimidated by that stuff. So putting it out there doesn't let them know that, oh, I could go and talk to her too and it would be okay.
Jenifer Smith: So I think just showing that it's a safe space for both people or individuals is really important. I mean, as a therapist, I'm always thinking about the therapeutic relationship and that's the biggest part of therapy.
Jenifer Smith: So I'm always looking to see how people can invite people in and make it a safe space. Any of the workshops I used to do, I always let partners know it's okay to bring your partner and create this dialogue or make it a date night.
Jenifer Smith: People like that term make it a date night. It makes it more commercial for them to want to come. And then they didn't have to plan one.
Erica: Yeah, I'm like, niggas going to be niggas.
Jenifer Smith: They like, "Oh, how much is it? Okay, cool. You going to teach her how to do this and give us the toys. Oh, all right."
Erica: Okay, cool. So one question I have, because we just touched on the fact that you're a single gal, I'm a single gal. I'm a sex educator. And I find it difficult when dating, because you get two types of guys.
Erica: One is like the "Oh, you know it all. I ain't going to be able to do shit to impress you," which whatever. Or you get niggas like, "Oh, you a sex educator. So we going to have a threesome on our first date." Do you run into that?
Jenifer Smith: I run into the first one all the time. All the time.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. On my podcast, I talk about it quite a bit. I met guys that I would date for four or five months. They were too scared to have sex.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, they were too scared to have sex or judge me because I taught a blowjob class. One guy said to me, he was like, "I just can't get over thinking about how much dick you might've had to suck to teach that class."
Kenrya: Oh God, go away.
Jenifer Smith: I'm sorry. What?
Kenrya: And guess what? I'm not sucking your dick because that was stupid.
Jenifer Smith: Right. I'm like, as women, we are never thinking about how much pussy you had to eat to get over here.
Jenifer Smith: We're just feeling good to have a ball to practice, you dicks.
Erica: Yeah, thank them chicks. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that-
Jenifer Smith: Or you get the survey after you've had sex. Then they like, "Okay, so here comes the question. Was it good enough? What do you want me to do next time? Did I get the G spot?" I'm like-
Erica: And here's the thing. I appreciate you asking to improve our experience, but don't ask to try to beat ... You're a fucking-
Kenrya: Like beat that high score.
Erica: Yeah, like my pussy is one of them, the arcade machines. And you trying to get your initials on this shit. No, nigga. No.
Jenifer Smith: I don't want you to ask me 15 seconds after I've come. I don't want you to ask me this. We still laying there and I'm trying to catch my breath.
Erica: Let me glow. Let me enjoy the glow.
Jenifer Smith: Ask me tomorrow. Let's have a recap tomorrow, but I don't always like having to debrief all the time. I'm like-
Kenrya: It makes it like work for you, right?
Jenifer Smith: It does. Definitely. I'm like, "Come in here and shut my ass up." That's all.
Erica: Knock the dust out of this pussy and-
Jenifer Smith: Right. No, it's real. That is so real, Erica. I thought getting into this field, I'm like, oh, I might ... I knew people would come at me or whatever, but this shit here of niggas not wanting to talk to you because of what you do or they intimidate or judge you, I'm like, wow, this has turned into a con. I don't know what to do with all of this. It's ridiculous.
Erica: I found guys, some guys are just really skeevy because I try to ... When you meet guys on apps, it's a balance. You want to tell them who you are in full.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: Because I'm also ... I run into niggas and they're super churchy. And I'm like, look, I'm a sex educator. I talk about getting my back blown out once a week on the internet for the world to know it.
Erica: I have friends that are gay, trans, nonbinary, so I need you to understand that you ain't getting just some teacher that's go ... like some basic-
Jenifer Smith: Right, right.
Erica: But I'm telling you that because I need you to understand. I don't need your judgment. This is who I am in full, not I'm telling you that to be like, "Hey, I'm going to shoot hot dogs out my pussy."
Erica: I'm sorry. I just finished reading Humans of New York the other day. That chick, Stephanie Tanqueray was talking about the stripper that shot hot dog or whatever out of her pussy.
Jenifer Smith: That's kind of like in Thailand where they do the darts out of their pussy and can actually bust balloons and shit.
Kenrya: Oh, shit. That's impressive.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I was like wow, we got those kinds of power. Look at that in my own vagina like-
Kenrya: I'm like shit, can we train? Is this something I can learn?
Jenifer Smith: Is there a camp I can attend? A workshop? I need to know. Damn. No, it's real out here. The apps are quite interesting. I have a three date rule that I put in place about a year ago. I don't give guys my social media until we've been out on three dates.
Erica: Oh, yeah. No.
Jenifer Smith: Because yeah, they get like all types of excited and shit, and that would backfire on me because podcasts are very popular and shit.
Jenifer Smith: So people are like, "Yeah, so I heard you on this podcast." And I'm like, "Oh, I was going to tell you when we got to the third date."
Kenrya: And you don't owe anybody anything. So there's that.
Erica: Exactly. Exactly.
Jenifer Smith: No, no you don't.
Kenrya: Man, I ain't your partner. You let them know when you're ready.
Jenifer Smith: Totally, totally.
Kenrya: I want to back up a little bit to something you said earlier.
Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: You were saying that you have to be pretty enough, but not too pretty. You have to be approachable. Why is that?
Jenifer Smith: For women, they respect other women if they're pretty, which is super weird, but that's what I learned maybe the first year I was a therapist when I would watch different couples come into the practice and who they would choose to be their therapist. You know what I mean?
Jenifer Smith: I was like, okay. I feel like I can say this woman's pretty and attractive or whatever. But it was something about how they looked at the pictures of who they chose.
Jenifer Smith: Like, "I like her. She's pretty, but I don't think she'll steal my man. So I think I'll go with her."
Erica: Oh, shit.
Jenifer Smith: But I got that though a couple of times if they didn't look at the website beforehand and I was just assigned the couple or whatever and they came in.
Jenifer Smith: I had this one couple. They were a Haitian couple and came in, and the wife took one look at me and said, "Definitely no."
Jenifer Smith: She was like, "I want somebody else." And I was like, "Well, I am the couple's therapist here. So it's me or nobody." And she was like, "I want to talk to your supervisor," which at that time I felt super intimidated by.
Jenifer Smith: And so my supervisor had to come out and she was like, "Jenifer is the best that we have. I feel a hundred percent confident in her capabilities to help you and your husband."
Jenifer Smith: The husband turns around and said, "I'll talk to her." He walked in the room and sat down. And she was just like, "We'll see."
Erica: Oh, poor thing.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah. She was like, "We'll see how this session goes." And we ended up having a great session until the last five minutes. We were talking and they were sitting next to each other and she said something that set him off.
Jenifer Smith: And then he was like, "I'm not talking to you anymore. I only want to talk to Jenifer." And she was like, "Session is over. That's it."
Jenifer Smith: She got up and walked out and he was just sitting there still talking to me. And I'm thinking, how am I supposed to wrap this up now? I don't know.
Jenifer Smith: But people will challenge you a lot when it's a couple because the women want to talk to other women that is attractive, but informative, and also feel like it's a safe space.
Jenifer Smith: And sometimes, if they get a therapist that's too close to their mother's age, they don't want to talk to somebody that's going to talk to them like they're their mom.
Jenifer Smith: They want somebody that's a little closer to their age where they feel it's approachable, and almost up-to-date too on other things.
Jenifer Smith: If they talk about porn or a specific porn, and I know about it. Or if they talk about a strip club that they went to, I will know about it. So those kinds of ways they feel like it's more relatable.
Kenrya: Wow. What's your favorite thing about what you do?
Jenifer Smith: It's never the same topic every day. It's always something different, and I like that. And I like that I can create a space for people to come and talk about their most intimate things and not feel scared to do so.
Jenifer Smith: I've heard some real horror stories from clients of therapists that they went to that made them feel bad about things that they shared or shamed them about certain things. And I'm glad that I can create that space for my clients and they don't have to worry about that with me.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. It's finding a therapist that gets you is just fucking amazing. My therapist, I think I made a rant. I talk in movie lines and movie quotes and shit. And so I reference “Don't be a Menace To South Central While Drinking a Juice in a Hood” or some shit.
Erica: And she got it. And I was just like, you know what? This is why the fuck I'm seeing your Black ass, because I want somebody to get like ...
Jenifer Smith: Yeah.
Kenrya: Also, the draggings.
Erica: Oh, yeah. Y'all, y'all-
Kenrya: She dragged the fuck out of ...
Erica: Dragging the fuck out of ... Yeah. I mean, I just got my hair back. You do not have to come for my edges so fucking quickly. So what do you wish more Black people knew about sex and sexuality?
Jenifer Smith: Oh, Lord. So much.
Kenrya: That was real weary.
Jenifer Smith: So what do I want them to know most? That they are not their past. They ... You are ... I have so many of my Black clients that I've had that had family trauma or generational trauma or sexual trauma. They feel that that is their identity now, their sexual identity.
Jenifer Smith: And I want them to know that healing is something that can just transform your life all across the board and that they don't always have to carry all that weight with them all the time.
Kenrya: Wow. What books would you recommend for folks who want to either explore their own sexuality or get deeper into what you were just talking about right about how to not be defined by their trauma, by their past, as it relates to their sexual selves?
Jenifer Smith: One that I always recommend is “The Body Keeps the Score,” which they have some really good workshops now for that book where I really recommend ... Anybody that's had a sexual trauma, I think it's a good read for them, but it also breaks down all the other ways with your sexuality specifically of how that can affect your sex life in so many other ways, even the most intimate relationship with yourself.
Jenifer Smith: I'm trying to think of any books I've read more recently about generational trauma. Can't come to mind right now. I'm trying to think of some other ones, even about therapy. Yeah. I'm drawing a blank, right? I'm like books, books.
Erica: Girl, it's similar names.
Jenifer Smith: I'm studying for my licensing exam. So the DSM is the only book on my mind right now.
Erica: Well, if you come up with anything else, let us know and we'll add it in the show notes or not. And it's fine, because “Body Keeps the Score” is great.
Kenrya: Yeah, absolutely. I was going to ask what you're reading right now, but you just told us.
Jenifer Smith: The DSM.
Jenifer Smith: The DSM, that's what I'm reading.
Kenrya: Just a little light work.
Jenifer Smith: Yeah, it's hard because I was in school when we switched from the DSM-IV to the DSM-V. So I'm rehearsed in both, but the exam is on five. So it's like you have to push out all that information that you knew previous and just focus on what they have now. So it's a little difficult.
Kenrya: Yeah, good luck.
Jenifer Smith: Thank you.
Erica: Okay. So we like to have a little fun before we wrap up. So I want you to finish the sentence.
Jenifer Smith: Oh boy. Okay.
Erica: Okay. The first one, 2020 is ...
Jenifer Smith: Shit show.
Erica: Accurate. Accurate. Okay.
Jenifer Smith: It's like retrograde all fucking year.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Erica: Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Okay. I feel best when ...
Jenifer Smith: I'm naked.
Erica: My partner was ... We were just talking. He was like, "So have you always just walked around naked? Do you do this when I'm not here?" Yes, it is my house.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Yes, I do. I was like, "This is how I prefer to be." Yup, yup. And when my child was gone with my ex, girl, my brother lives with me, but he pretty much stays in his space, which is the basement. He literally knocks on the basement, poor guy, "Put on a shirt."
Jenifer Smith: “Can I come out?”
Erica: Exactly. So yeah, clothes are some bullshit. Okay. My perfect day begins with ...
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, praise and worship.
Erica: Yes. Okay, and last, my pettiest turn off is ...
Jenifer Smith: Ooh, pettiest? I don't know. If he has a broke down car.
Erica: Nothing wrong with it.
Jenifer Smith: That will turn me off quick. I'm like, I don't care if it was a great date. I'll be like, "So it was really to know you, but this is not going to work out for you."
Erica: You in the Sentra. If this ’87 Sentra ain't going ... Okay. Kenrya, I saw you thinking. What's your pettiest turn off?
Kenrya: I don't know. I'm sitting here trying to figure out. Oh, I don't know.
Erica: I have a whole fucking list.
Kenrya: Do you?
Jenifer Smith: Let's see, hear a couple. I want to hear it.
Erica: So one, I'm not going to say publicly, I'll say it after this because we might cut some people off. Another one fucking braided hair, like braids.
Erica: Cornrows. If you're a grown ass nigga with some fucking cornrows, I'm like, "Nigga, come on now."
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: You doing too much. Dirty fingernails of course.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah. That's a big one for you.
Erica: Busted shoes.
Jenifer Smith: Yes. That's a big one for me too.
Erica: And they don't even have to be like the name brands or whatever, just well taken care of.
Jenifer Smith: But if they look like they are so old, like you've had these since college, let it go.
Erica: When the heel run over and stuff-
Jenifer Smith: Yes, yes, yes.
Erica: No, not at all. Nope. Not at all. Because the little things, like if you can't take care of like the little things-
Jenifer Smith: You can't be cleaning a dick.
Erica: You ain't.
Jenifer Smith: You can't possibly. You can't possibly.
Erica: You got to choose a dick. If you can't get the details, you ain't scooping under them balls and cleaning it up under there.
Jenifer Smith: Right, right.
Erica: And I'm nasty. I want my face in everything, but I need to make sure I need to be confident you were cleaning.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: Your crevices.
Jenifer Smith: Right.
Erica: They may sound petty, but it actually leads up to something else.
Erica: If you're a grown ass man walking around with cornrows and shit ... I mean, maybe with the little individual braids, I might give you a chance, but if you're a grown ass man walking around with some Allen Iverson, bruh, you make poor decisions. And so-
Jenifer Smith: Yes. Face tattoos. Yes.
Jenifer Smith: Face tattoos for me too.
Erica: Yeah. Okay, I can add that. That can be on my list. I'm not a fan. However, because I'm a bird, I do like a neck tattoo.
Kenrya: You like a neck tattoo.
Erica: I'm such a bird.
Kenrya: Yeah, the face tattoo is just like, so either you're independently wealthy or you just don't give a fuck no more.
Erica: You literally was like, you know what? Fuck it. Fuck this.
Kenrya: And that's fine, but we probably not a good match. And that's okay. I'm sure there's somebody that is there for you.
Jenifer Smith: Okay. Right, right.
Kenrya: It's just not me.
Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: That'll be on my list. That's cool. So thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell the people where they can find you online?
Jenifer Smith: Yes. Thank you both for having me. I appreciate it. I could have talked to y'all all day. I feel like we had some ... We could talk nasty all day.
Kenrya: We can.
Jenifer Smith: But you can find me on Instagram @SexTherapistJen, all one word, or you can listen to my podcast also at Love, Lust and Lies podcast. We're on all podcast platforms or you can follow our IG @LoveLustLiesPodcast.
Kenrya: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And thank you for coming on, and thank you all for listening. That's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. And we will be back soon. Thanks for listening.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions. And follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at tTheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.