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SHOW NOTES
In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to sex therapist Jenifer Smith about how improved communication, a good book and some excellent porn can improve your sex life.

Resources:

• Guest, Jenifer Smith: Instagram | Love Lust and Lies Podcast | Love Lust and Lives Instagram
• Book, "The Body Keeps the Score," by Bessel van der Kolk: Bookshop | Amazon

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TRANSCRIPT
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.

[theme music]

Kenrya: Today, we're talking to Jenifer Smith, pronouns she and her. Jenifer has been providing relationship and sex advice to couples and individuals for 13 years.

Kenrya: She has a double master's degree in marriage and family therapy and mental health counseling, and is also a sex therapist.

Kenrya: She's currently the co-host of the Love, Lust and Lies podcast, which can be found on all podcast streaming platforms. Thanks so much for joining us today, Jenifer.

Jenifer Smith: Thank you for having me.

Kenrya: Absolutely.

Erica: So again, thank you. We appreciate you coming out. When I first met you, I was like, she's got to come on to The Turn On. So I appreciate you making time.

Jenifer Smith: It took like a year in the making.

Erica: I know. Things have been leading up to this.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I like a good climax. That's okay.

Kenrya: Hey.

Erica: Hey, hey, hey. Tell us a little bit about your background and how it brought you to doing this work.

Jenifer Smith: My background actually started in radio. In college, I used to host a sex talk radio show and the show was already in existence when I got on it. And funny enough, the guy that I hosted the show with back then is the guy I host my podcast with now, 16 years later.

Erica: Oh, wow.

Kenrya: Wow.

Erica: Full circle.

Kenrya: Right?

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. So talking about those topics of sex, love, relationships, dating is what really started to drive me and really fueled me to talk to people about relationships.

Jenifer Smith: And so I wrote for a sex advice column for a magazine for four years after graduation. And I was like, yeah, this seems more like a calling than it is a hobby now.

Jenifer Smith: So that's when I decided to become a therapist. But that-

Erica: Was your major in college therapy or anything like that? Or were you like an econ major or some shit?

Jenifer Smith: Communications.

Erica: Okay.

Jenifer Smith: Communications was my major. PR was my concentration. If you talked to me back then, I was going to be a hard-hitting publicist. And then, that's just not what happened.

Kenrya: Oh, same. That was my specialization too.

Jenifer Smith: Yes. It's funny how you use those skills-

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jenifer Smith: ... in a career change. So people ask me-

Kenrya: We use them for this show, shit.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah, people ask me all the time, "Well, how did you get to doing TV or radio or magazines?" And I'm like, "Well, I'm a communications major, and PR and media is always going to be number one for me."

Jenifer Smith: And so now, being able to use therapy in that same platform is pretty dope to combine my worlds together.

Kenrya: Yeah, that's awesome. What did you want to be when you grew up?

Jenifer Smith: Oh, a publicist and a lawyer.

Kenrya: You're like, just give me all the coins.

Jenifer Smith: Let me talk for a living and I'm set.

Erica: And now you talk about masturbation.

Jenifer Smith: Now, I'm talking about masturbation, the gift that keeps on giving.

Erica: Yes, yes. Okay, so when we asked you to come along, we wanted to talk about living your best sex life. On the podcast, we read a lot of erotica, which most people's fantasies of what their best sex life is. So what does that mean to you? What does the best sex life mean to you?

Jenifer Smith: Oh, that's a really good question. The best sex life to me is one where both partners are equally pleasured all the time.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jenifer Smith: And that comes with just even conversation in physical sense of sex or intimacy or foreplay, in all areas that you're just deliciously pleasured with your partner. And that's how I look at it-

Erica: Oh, I like that, delicious.

Jenifer Smith: Because for me ... Yeah, because for me, I need good conversation to even make me feel aroused, to want to be intimate with you.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jenifer Smith: So for me, I need it all across the board.

Kenrya: Yeah. On the other side of that coin, what things do you think tend to stand in the way of people having the best sex life of their dreams?

Jenifer Smith: Communication, I would say is number one. Since I've been a therapist, that's probably what I've heard the most is communication. People aren't able to communicate what their needs are.

Jenifer Smith: And a lot of times, people aren't communicating with themselves of what their pleasure points are or what it takes to get them off, or even wanting to have that conversation of what are their real insecurities about their body here about being intimate, which then prevents you from getting close to somebody else. So I would say communication for sure.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: Do you see a difference in communication? I'm thinking about stereotypes that people have, right? That men are poor communicators. Do you see a difference in how communication goals in terms of the orientations and the makeup of the partnerships? You know what I mean?

Jenifer Smith: For sure, which is funny that you say that because I feel like men are the better communicators with what they want sexually. Women are the ones that actually lack that communication.

Jenifer Smith: And they usually lack communication because one, they haven't explored their own body. Two, they are afraid to actually communicate what they want because afraid of judgments, or they've opened up to somebody else before and that person shamed them or put them down. And now it feels like it's unsafe to share what you really want.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: You know that's interesting. I was doing a class last night about sex and technology, and so a lot of it was porn. Well, the first part of it was talking a lot about porn.

Erica: And one of the things that she mentioned was that she finds that couples that watch porn together tend to communicate their desires better in relationships, or just people that watch porn are able to better articulate their desires.

Erica: And the study show what ... Most people under-report. But anyway, the studies show that-

Kenrya: Oh, how much porn they watch?

Erica: Yeah.

Jenifer Smith: Oh, definitely.

Erica: The studies show that men watch more porn than women. And so I think that goes hand in hand with what you just said about the fact that men are more ... They're able to say, "I want this," because they've seen that happen in porn.

Jenifer Smith: Oh, for sure. I think I agree with that a hundred percent, Erica. I think women definitely under report it because of the judgment and the shame that come ... And it's funny enough, as long as I've been doing this work, most of the shame come from other women. It's not even coming from men.

Erica: Yup, yup.

Kenrya: Listen, that's real. A scroll through fucking Black Twitter will show you that.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. Yeah. And that's sad because there are porn that you can watch that is, I would say approachable for couples because I don't think all porn-

Erica: Yeah.

Jenifer Smith: ... is applicable to everybody's sex life.

Erica: Yeah.

Jenifer Smith: But there are some good safe porn that you can go watch as a couple, even if it's your first couple of times watching it, where you can have a dialogue about it.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jenifer Smith: And people have to actually take the actual, sometimes the actual intercourse out of it. And just talk about, what is it that you see? What is it that you like out of this? Do you like the way she responds when he does that?

Jenifer Smith: Talking about how you act, what the experience is. And I think that people miss that a lot of the time. They miss what the experience is supposed to be about.

Kenrya: Hmm.

Erica: Yeah. So what things do you think people should consider when they're assessing their current sex life and where they want it to be?

Jenifer Smith: Hmm, that's a good question. Are you happy? Are you satisfied? Do you ever think about stepping outside of the relationship to meet your sexual needs?

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jenifer Smith: Those would be a few, I think of voice assess.

Kenrya: At what point do you need to be concerned? Okay. So we all ... At least, I got a bit of imagination. So we've heard from lots of folks who have their fantasies and have their what if people and have all these things that go on in their head.

Kenrya: How do you know when you cross the line between just fantasizing about something that's a little different and maybe being about to cross over that line?

Jenifer Smith: Ooh, I've heard it so many different ways too. I mean, because some people, that's all they think about is somebody else while they're having sex with their current partner. And I think that that gets to be a very dangerous territory if it's an actual ... Okay, like-

Kenrya: Like a real person that's walking around on earth.

Jenifer Smith: Right. I mean, listen. I dream about Michael B. Jordan sometimes when I'm having sex, but that doesn't mean he's tangible to me. But if you're dreaming about the person that you work with-

Erica: The secretary.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah, the person that you work with that's a tangible person that you could actually get it from them, then I think it's kind of dangerous territory if you're not communicating with your partner.

Jenifer Smith: And I think that that's also part of communication is if you're fantasizing about different things and you don't feel like you could share that with your partner, there might be something there with that communication.

Jenifer Smith: You don't feel like it's a safe space to actually share that, because I think it's important for couples to be able to share what their desires and fantasies are and explore them if you choose to.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: You said earlier that a lot of what you see is that women are having a bit of a more difficult time expressing what it is that they need to be able to live into that best sex life.

Kenrya: I'm wondering, are there ... Can we talk a bit about what are the special considerations that come when you're talking about Black women and Black non-binary folks? What comes into play often that keeps us from being able to really seize that pleasure?

Jenifer Smith: A lot of the times, it comes from ... And I'm going to put my therapist hat on now. It comes a lot from the way that you were brought up.

Jenifer Smith: If you were raised in a family where sex education wasn't something that was an open dialogue and you learned about sex and other various forms that weren't always the safest environment, most women, most Black women are not coming into the relationship open or ready to communicate about it if they never had that space before.

Jenifer Smith: And if they've brought it up before ... And these are different examples that I've heard. If they have brought it up before with a previous partner, they were either shamed about it. They might've been sexually abused, and then that may have been used against them also and the information they would have shared.

Jenifer Smith: And within the girlfriend circles. I have plenty of women ... I teach a blowjob class and I've been teaching it for three years.

Jenifer Smith: And a lot of the Black women said that they would, during their girlfriend nights, would tell their girlfriends about giving their man head or giving them a hand job in the movies or something like that. And they were shamed in their girlfriend circles about doing things like that.

Kenrya: Wow.

Jenifer Smith: And that stopped them from wanting to communicate with anybody else about it, and even their partner about it, because now it was something shameful.

Jenifer Smith: They were told only white women do that. And that just creates this whole stigma of it's not safe for me to talk about it with anybody.

Kenrya: Yeah. They will never survive in our friend group.

Erica: Girl, I'm like ... I remember we were at Benihana and I was showing a dick pic. Oh my God, we were like ... You know how at Benihana you're at the table with other families?

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: I was like, "Look at this. He came in slow motion." They was like, "Erica, girl, put that fucking phone down."

Kenrya: I mean, remember I came downstairs the other day and y'all bitches were stimulating what y'all thought I must've been doing upstairs when I wasn't with y'all. Like ...

Erica: Yes.

Jenifer Smith: The question is: were you doing it?

Kenrya: Yes, I was.

Erica: Yes, you was, you was, you was.

Kenrya: They were correct. They know me well.

Erica: Yeah, we were down here kicking it hard and ... Yeah. And she came downstairs and was like ... I was like, "Yeah, bitch because you would've been down here kicking it with us if you weren't upstairs doing all that nasty shit."

Kenrya: I mean, a time for everything.

Jenifer Smith: Time for everything.

Erica: All the single gals. It was like ... Was it all the single gals? Except for the first, it was all the single gals. So you were fucking on behalf of all.

Jenifer Smith: I need to be in that circle. I'm the single one amongst my friends. And I get a pass because I'm a sex therapist and they just always assume I'm going to talk about some nasty shit, but I'm like, I need to be around other nasty single women that also could talk freely about this stuff.

Erica: Bitch.

Kenrya: Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Erica: Come over, kick it. We get it in over here. I think our ... Yeah, we did a Zoom call on Friday night and I pulled out all my toys and I was-

Jenifer Smith: Yes.

Erica: ... showing them different butt plugs-

Jenifer Smith: Yes.

Erica: ... and lubes, and this is my favorite collar. And this is my favorite whip. Someone was like, "Huh?" The other ones were like, "Drop that link."

Kenrya: It takes all kinds, but at the end of the day, we're really big on not yucking anyone's yum, right?

Jenifer Smith: No.

Kenrya: So if it ain't your thing, that's okay. It just ain't your thing.

Jenifer Smith: That's okay. But it's the dialogue, because even if you're not into it, I at least want my friends to be educated about it because I don't know what other conversations they might be having with their other circle of friends or with their partners for that matter.

Jenifer Smith: I want everybody always to be informed about other things because people, adults assume that sex education stops somewhere at school. And if you didn't get it at-

Erica: It never started at school. How about that?

Jenifer Smith: I mean, right. Some people didn't get it at school. I was very fortunate and I had a lot of great sex education very young. And I had it all throughout grade school, middle school and high school. So I was very fortunate, but I know other people weren't and I'm like-

Erica: What state were you in? I don't want to get too-

Jenifer Smith: I was in Pennsylvania.

Erica: Okay.

Kenrya: Hmm.

Jenifer Smith: And so-

Kenrya: That's interesting.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. And so I'm like, now as adults, it is your choice and responsibility to educate yourself about sex and about different products, different lubricants, adult stores, the different kinds of porn.

Jenifer Smith: Everybody has access to that. So if you're not educating yourself about it, I think you're doing a real disservice to yourself and to your partner or future partners about different things that you could just be educated about.

Erica: Yeah, and I'd like to think of sex and pleasure as a form of self care.

Jenifer Smith: Absolutely.

Erica: I think that we spend so much time on spas and candles and even the boring part of self care, like I'm going to iron my clothes the night before, but ... I don't know, cumming is a-

Kenrya: You get free ass orgasm.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that's just ... Cumming is ... We talked to someone and she said, "I masturbate every morning to get my day started."

Jenifer Smith: Right.

Erica: And I'm like, "Fuck yeah."

Jenifer Smith: Some people drink coffee, some people masturbate.

Erica: Exactly.

Jenifer Smith: To me, the serotonins come out the same way.

Erica: Exactly. And so this is ... I try to ... I am one of the ... I mean, we talk a lot among my friend group, but I'd make it a point to be kind of the I'm this. I swing hard on this side of the pendulum where it's like, y'all going to know all my details, so that at least you're comfortable sharing a little bit more about yours or you're comfortable asking. So yeah.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: So we know you're a sex therapist. How do you think sex educators and therapists can help people evolve their sex lives? How can they make them change it and grow?

Jenifer Smith: Well, I have found that you have to make it really approachable for women. You have to ... People always ask me how do I do couples therapy? Because they just assume that every man is coming on to me, and I'm like, that's not the case. But like-

Kenrya: I never thought that that would be a thing.

Jenifer Smith: I mean, I say that was not why I got into it. That was not my thought, but it was like ... I always used to say, for couples therapy, you have to be pretty but approachable enough for the woman, but for the man, you have to be attractive and informative and let him know it's a safe space.

Jenifer Smith: And I feel like sex education and sexual health is the same way. We have to make it an inviting space. I think a lot of times on social media, so many people are showing dildos or pocket pussies or bullets or something like that.

Jenifer Smith: And a man is already intimidated by that stuff. So putting it out there doesn't let them know that, oh, I could go and talk to her too and it would be okay.

Jenifer Smith: So I think just showing that it's a safe space for both people or individuals is really important. I mean, as a therapist, I'm always thinking about the therapeutic relationship and that's the biggest part of therapy.

Jenifer Smith: So I'm always looking to see how people can invite people in and make it a safe space. Any of the workshops I used to do, I always let partners know it's okay to bring your partner and create this dialogue or make it a date night.

Jenifer Smith: People like that term make it a date night. It makes it more commercial for them to want to come. And then they didn't have to plan one.

Erica: Yeah, I'm like, niggas going to be niggas.

Jenifer Smith: They like, "Oh, how much is it? Okay, cool. You going to teach her how to do this and give us the toys. Oh, all right."

Erica: Okay, cool. So one question I have, because we just touched on the fact that you're a single gal, I'm a single gal. I'm a sex educator. And I find it difficult when dating, because you get two types of guys.

Erica: One is like the "Oh, you know it all. I ain't going to be able to do shit to impress you," which whatever. Or you get niggas like, "Oh, you a sex educator. So we going to have a threesome on our first date." Do you run into that?

Jenifer Smith: I run into the first one all the time. All the time.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. On my podcast, I talk about it quite a bit. I met guys that I would date for four or five months. They were too scared to have sex.

Erica: Oh.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah, they were too scared to have sex or judge me because I taught a blowjob class. One guy said to me, he was like, "I just can't get over thinking about how much dick you might've had to suck to teach that class."

Kenrya: Oh God, go away.

Jenifer Smith: I'm sorry. What?

Kenrya: And guess what? I'm not sucking your dick because that was stupid.

Jenifer Smith: Right. I'm like, as women, we are never thinking about how much pussy you had to eat to get over here.

Kenrya: Never.

Jenifer Smith: We're just feeling good to have a ball to practice, you dicks.

Erica: Yeah, thank them chicks. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that-

Jenifer Smith: Or you get the survey after you've had sex. Then they like, "Okay, so here comes the question. Was it good enough? What do you want me to do next time? Did I get the G spot?" I'm like-

Erica: And here's the thing. I appreciate you asking to improve our experience, but don't ask to try to beat ... You're a fucking-

Kenrya: Like beat that high score.

Erica: Yeah, like my pussy is one of them, the arcade machines. And you trying to get your initials on this shit. No, nigga. No.

Jenifer Smith: I don't want you to ask me 15 seconds after I've come. I don't want you to ask me this. We still laying there and I'm trying to catch my breath.

Erica: Let me glow. Let me enjoy the glow.

Jenifer Smith: Ask me tomorrow. Let's have a recap tomorrow, but I don't always like having to debrief all the time. I'm like-

Kenrya: It makes it like work for you, right?

Jenifer Smith: It does. Definitely. I'm like, "Come in here and shut my ass up." That's all.

Erica: Knock the dust out of this pussy and-

Jenifer Smith: Right. No, it's real. That is so real, Erica. I thought getting into this field, I'm like, oh, I might ... I knew people would come at me or whatever, but this shit here of niggas not wanting to talk to you because of what you do or they intimidate or judge you, I'm like, wow, this has turned into a con. I don't know what to do with all of this. It's ridiculous.

Erica: I found guys, some guys are just really skeevy because I try to ... When you meet guys on apps, it's a balance. You want to tell them who you are in full.

Jenifer Smith: Right.

Erica: Because I'm also ... I run into niggas and they're super churchy. And I'm like, look, I'm a sex educator. I talk about getting my back blown out once a week on the internet for the world to know it.

Erica: I have friends that are gay, trans, nonbinary, so I need you to understand that you ain't getting just some teacher that's go ... like some basic-

Jenifer Smith: Right, right.

Erica: But I'm telling you that because I need you to understand. I don't need your judgment. This is who I am in full, not I'm telling you that to be like, "Hey, I'm going to shoot hot dogs out my pussy."

Erica: I'm sorry. I just finished reading Humans of New York the other day. That chick, Stephanie Tanqueray was talking about the stripper that shot hot dog or whatever out of her pussy.

Jenifer Smith: That's kind of like in Thailand where they do the darts out of their pussy and can actually bust balloons and shit.

Kenrya: Oh, shit. That's impressive.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. I was like wow, we got those kinds of power. Look at that in my own vagina like-

Kenrya: I'm like shit, can we train? Is this something I can learn?

Jenifer Smith: Is there a camp I can attend? A workshop? I need to know. Damn. No, it's real out here. The apps are quite interesting. I have a three date rule that I put in place about a year ago. I don't give guys my social media until we've been out on three dates.

Erica: Oh, yeah. No.

Jenifer Smith: Because yeah, they get like all types of excited and shit, and that would backfire on me because podcasts are very popular and shit.

Jenifer Smith: So people are like, "Yeah, so I heard you on this podcast." And I'm like, "Oh, I was going to tell you when we got to the third date."

Kenrya: And you don't owe anybody anything. So there's that.

Erica: Exactly. Exactly.

Jenifer Smith: No, no you don't.

Kenrya: Man, I ain't your partner. You let them know when you're ready.

Jenifer Smith: Totally, totally.

Kenrya: I want to back up a little bit to something you said earlier.

Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: You were saying that you have to be pretty enough, but not too pretty. You have to be approachable. Why is that?

Jenifer Smith: For women, they respect other women if they're pretty, which is super weird, but that's what I learned maybe the first year I was a therapist when I would watch different couples come into the practice and who they would choose to be their therapist. You know what I mean?

Jenifer Smith: I was like, okay. I feel like I can say this woman's pretty and attractive or whatever. But it was something about how they looked at the pictures of who they chose.

Jenifer Smith: Like, "I like her. She's pretty, but I don't think she'll steal my man. So I think I'll go with her."

Erica: Oh, shit.

Jenifer Smith: But I got that though a couple of times if they didn't look at the website beforehand and I was just assigned the couple or whatever and they came in.

Jenifer Smith: I had this one couple. They were a Haitian couple and came in, and the wife took one look at me and said, "Definitely no."

Kenrya: Damn.

Jenifer Smith: She was like, "I want somebody else." And I was like, "Well, I am the couple's therapist here. So it's me or nobody." And she was like, "I want to talk to your supervisor," which at that time I felt super intimidated by.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Jenifer Smith: And so my supervisor had to come out and she was like, "Jenifer is the best that we have. I feel a hundred percent confident in her capabilities to help you and your husband."

Jenifer Smith: The husband turns around and said, "I'll talk to her." He walked in the room and sat down. And she was just like, "We'll see."

Erica: Oh, poor thing.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah. She was like, "We'll see how this session goes." And we ended up having a great session until the last five minutes. We were talking and they were sitting next to each other and she said something that set him off.

Jenifer Smith: And then he was like, "I'm not talking to you anymore. I only want to talk to Jenifer." And she was like, "Session is over. That's it."

Erica: Well.

Jenifer Smith: She got up and walked out and he was just sitting there still talking to me. And I'm thinking, how am I supposed to wrap this up now? I don't know.

Jenifer Smith: But people will challenge you a lot when it's a couple because the women want to talk to other women that is attractive, but informative, and also feel like it's a safe space.

Jenifer Smith: And sometimes, if they get a therapist that's too close to their mother's age, they don't want to talk to somebody that's going to talk to them like they're their mom.

Jenifer Smith: They want somebody that's a little closer to their age where they feel it's approachable, and almost up-to-date too on other things.

Jenifer Smith: If they talk about porn or a specific porn, and I know about it. Or if they talk about a strip club that they went to, I will know about it. So those kinds of ways they feel like it's more relatable.

Kenrya: Wow. What's your favorite thing about what you do?

Jenifer Smith: It's never the same topic every day. It's always something different, and I like that. And I like that I can create a space for people to come and talk about their most intimate things and not feel scared to do so.

Jenifer Smith: I've heard some real horror stories from clients of therapists that they went to that made them feel bad about things that they shared or shamed them about certain things. And I'm glad that I can create that space for my clients and they don't have to worry about that with me.

Erica: Yeah. Yeah. It's finding a therapist that gets you is just fucking amazing. My therapist, I think I made a rant. I talk in movie lines and movie quotes and shit. And so I reference “Don't be a Menace To South Central While Drinking a Juice in a Hood” or some shit.

Erica: And she got it. And I was just like, you know what? This is why the fuck I'm seeing your Black ass, because I want somebody to get like ...

Jenifer Smith: Yeah.

Kenrya: Also, the draggings.

Erica: Oh, yeah. Y'all, y'all-

Kenrya: She dragged the fuck out of ...

Erica: Dragging the fuck out of ... Yeah. I mean, I just got my hair back. You do not have to come for my edges so fucking quickly. So what do you wish more Black people knew about sex and sexuality?

Jenifer Smith: Oh, Lord. So much.

Kenrya: That was real weary.

Jenifer Smith: So what do I want them to know most? That they are not their past. They ... You are ... I have so many of my Black clients that I've had that had family trauma or generational trauma or sexual trauma. They feel that that is their identity now, their sexual identity.

Jenifer Smith: And I want them to know that healing is something that can just transform your life all across the board and that they don't always have to carry all that weight with them all the time.

Kenrya: Wow. What books would you recommend for folks who want to either explore their own sexuality or get deeper into what you were just talking about right about how to not be defined by their trauma, by their past, as it relates to their sexual selves?

Jenifer Smith: One that I always recommend is “The Body Keeps the Score,” which they have some really good workshops now for that book where I really recommend ... Anybody that's had a sexual trauma, I think it's a good read for them, but it also breaks down all the other ways with your sexuality specifically of how that can affect your sex life in so many other ways, even the most intimate relationship with yourself.

Jenifer Smith: I'm trying to think of any books I've read more recently about generational trauma. Can't come to mind right now. I'm trying to think of some other ones, even about therapy. Yeah. I'm drawing a blank, right? I'm like books, books.

Erica: Girl, it's similar names.

Jenifer Smith: I'm studying for my licensing exam. So the DSM is the only book on my mind right now.

Erica: Well, if you come up with anything else, let us know and we'll add it in the show notes or not. And it's fine, because “Body Keeps the Score” is great.

Kenrya: Yeah, absolutely. I was going to ask what you're reading right now, but you just told us.

Jenifer Smith: The DSM.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Jenifer Smith: The DSM, that's what I'm reading.

Kenrya: Just a little light work.

Jenifer Smith: Yeah, it's hard because I was in school when we switched from the DSM-IV to the DSM-V. So I'm rehearsed in both, but the exam is on five. So it's like you have to push out all that information that you knew previous and just focus on what they have now. So it's a little difficult.

Kenrya: Yeah, good luck.

Jenifer Smith: Thank you.

Erica: Okay. So we like to have a little fun before we wrap up. So I want you to finish the sentence.

Jenifer Smith: Oh boy. Okay.

Erica: Okay. The first one, 2020 is ...

Jenifer Smith: Shit show.

Erica: Accurate. Accurate. Okay.

Jenifer Smith: It's like retrograde all fucking year.

Kenrya: Oh my God.

Erica: Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Okay. I feel best when ...

Jenifer Smith: I'm naked.

Kenrya: Yes.

Erica: My partner was ... We were just talking. He was like, "So have you always just walked around naked? Do you do this when I'm not here?" Yes, it is my house.

Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.

Erica: Yes, I do. I was like, "This is how I prefer to be." Yup, yup. And when my child was gone with my ex, girl, my brother lives with me, but he pretty much stays in his space, which is the basement. He literally knocks on the basement, poor guy, "Put on a shirt."

Jenifer Smith: “Can I come out?”

Erica: Exactly. So yeah, clothes are some bullshit. Okay. My perfect day begins with ...

Jenifer Smith: Ooh, praise and worship.

Erica: Yes. Okay, and last, my pettiest turn off is ...

Jenifer Smith: Ooh, pettiest? I don't know. If he has a broke down car.

Erica: Nothing wrong with it.

Jenifer Smith: That will turn me off quick. I'm like, I don't care if it was a great date. I'll be like, "So it was really to know you, but this is not going to work out for you."

Erica: You in the Sentra. If this ’87 Sentra ain't going ... Okay. Kenrya, I saw you thinking. What's your pettiest turn off?

Kenrya: I don't know. I'm sitting here trying to figure out. Oh, I don't know.

Erica: I have a whole fucking list.

Kenrya: Do you?

Jenifer Smith: Let's see, hear a couple. I want to hear it.

Erica: So one, I'm not going to say publicly, I'll say it after this because we might cut some people off. Another one fucking braided hair, like braids.

Kenrya: Cornrows.

Erica: Cornrows. If you're a grown ass nigga with some fucking cornrows, I'm like, "Nigga, come on now."

Jenifer Smith: Right.

Erica: You doing too much. Dirty fingernails of course.

Kenrya: Oh, yeah. That's a big one for you.

Erica: Busted shoes.

Jenifer Smith: Yes. That's a big one for me too.

Erica: And they don't even have to be like the name brands or whatever, just well taken care of.

Jenifer Smith: But if they look like they are so old, like you've had these since college, let it go.

Erica: When the heel run over and stuff-

Jenifer Smith: Yes, yes, yes.

Erica: No, not at all. Nope. Not at all. Because the little things, like if you can't take care of like the little things-

Jenifer Smith: You can't be cleaning a dick.

Erica: You ain't.

Jenifer Smith: You can't possibly. You can't possibly.

Erica: You got to choose a dick. If you can't get the details, you ain't scooping under them balls and cleaning it up under there.

Jenifer Smith: Right, right.

Erica: And I'm nasty. I want my face in everything, but I need to make sure I need to be confident you were cleaning.

Jenifer Smith: Right.

Erica: Your crevices.

Jenifer Smith: Right.

Kenrya: Crevices.

Erica: They may sound petty, but it actually leads up to something else.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: If you're a grown ass man walking around with cornrows and shit ... I mean, maybe with the little individual braids, I might give you a chance, but if you're a grown ass man walking around with some Allen Iverson, bruh, you make poor decisions. And so-

Jenifer Smith: Yes. Face tattoos. Yes.

Kenrya: Yes.

Jenifer Smith: Face tattoos for me too.

Erica: Yeah. Okay, I can add that. That can be on my list. I'm not a fan. However, because I'm a bird, I do like a neck tattoo.

Kenrya: You like a neck tattoo.

Erica: I'm such a bird.

Kenrya: Yeah, the face tattoo is just like, so either you're independently wealthy or you just don't give a fuck no more.

Erica: You literally was like, you know what? Fuck it. Fuck this.

Kenrya: And that's fine, but we probably not a good match. And that's okay. I'm sure there's somebody that is there for you.

Jenifer Smith: Okay. Right, right.

Kenrya: It's just not me.

Jenifer Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: Okay.

Kenrya: That'll be on my list. That's cool. So thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell the people where they can find you online?

Jenifer Smith: Yes. Thank you both for having me. I appreciate it. I could have talked to y'all all day. I feel like we had some ... We could talk nasty all day.

Kenrya: We can.

Jenifer Smith: But you can find me on Instagram @SexTherapistJen, all one word, or you can listen to my podcast also at Love, Lust and Lies podcast. We're on all podcast platforms or you can follow our IG @LoveLustLiesPodcast.

Kenrya: Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And thank you for coming on, and thank you all for listening. That's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. And we will be back soon. Thanks for listening.

[theme music]

Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions. And follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at tTheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon. Holla.

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SHOW NOTES
In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk about the pleasures and challenges of one night stands.

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TRANSCRIPT
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.

[theme music]

Erica: Hey, y'all.

Kenrya: Hey folks.

Erica: We are here. We are here to tickle your fancy. Tickle your nipples, your titillations. Not everybody got nipples, I'm learning. Actually, side note. When you get a mastectomy, a big thing is whether or not you get to keep your nipples. And I was like, I want my nipples. Please let me keep my nipples. I love my nipples. Love my areolas. They're big, mammy areolas.

Erica: Now that I got them, they are aggressive as fuck. Like I really wouldn't have to wear a bra if it weren't for these nipples that are like, "Nigga, I'm here."

Kenrya: They are constantly on.

Erica: "We made it. I am here. Look at me, look at me. How are you? Look at me?" This is like, "God damn." So, you know, I guess, you know.

Kenrya: Well can't you just wear those little nipple cover things? Do you have to wear a whole ass bra?

Erica: I do. Oh, that's what I do.

Kenrya: I mean, also, your nipples can just do what they want. Who says they have to be covered?

Erica: They are distracting. No, I mean like in most situations I wouldn't, but like I got to wear them at work because I just ... They're fucking distracting. They look good, but they're distracting. So yeah. I'm not sure how we got on nipples, but we are here to do what ... Have a little story time.

Kenrya: Yes, time for some stories.

Erica: Gather around the fire. The fire that's being stoked with the tears and pages from hotep books or burning hoteps, we burning ashy niggas. I don't know. Anyway.

Kenrya: I don't think that tears can stoke a fire though. You probably have the opposite of that.

Erica: Hotep tears would because they're ashy.

Kenrya: Okay.

Erica: Anyway, so we-

Kenrya: That's reasonable.

Erica: We're going to have a story about what?

Kenrya: One night stands.

Erica: One night stands. There's a Jazmine Sullivan song, but it takes a lot to get to the part where she says (singing). I don't know if it's just but anyway. I don't want to sing the whole song because I don't know the words and I will sing it and just keep going. So Killa, kick off that joint. Tell us about your one night stand. A memorable one night stand.

Kenrya: I mean I ... Yeah, sure. So I have had a few of them and they were all during a period that I lovingly refer to as my hoe period. Not that you have to be in a hoe period to have a one night stand, but as someone who was always in a fucking relationship, because I used to be afraid to be by myself, it took a hoe period for me to be able to have one night stands. And it was also during the time when I was grieving, because I had lost a partner or the person who I had just broken up with, died a couple of days after we broke up. And so, one of the ways that I coped once I got through the, "I'm crying all day, I'm not sleeping," portion of the grief, was that I was out here fucking.

Erica: As my granny would say, "Hmm, best way to get over an old man is to get under a new man."

Kenrya: Yeah, I guess so.

Erica: Not healthy, but it was said.

Kenrya: I wouldn't say that it was healthy, but it was fun. So, there were a few of memorable moments in there and you were around for, I think, two of them. So I think I'm going to tell the story that you weren't around for.

Erica: Yeah. Share.

Kenrya: So I was in the Dominican Republic for a friend's wedding and this was before folks really started boycotting the DR for how shitty its been treating Haitians. So it was, shit, years and years ago. And we went off of our resort to go to a club. And I just decided that I was fucking somebody that night. Like it was just-

Erica: Somebody going to get these yams.

Kenrya: Yeah. It was a decision that was already made. So we go to this club, I don't remember shit about it, except for that it was big and loud and the music was good. And I'm looking around, like looking for a prime candidate and I lock eyes with this little nigga and I'm like, "Oh, it's going to be him."

Erica: Was he like little, for real little?

Kenrya: No, no, no, no, no. I don't know why I'm calling him a little nigga.

Erica: I mean, you're not a huge person so it's just-

Kenrya: Yeah. He's taller than me. Whatever. I just, I remember looking at him and being like, "Oh yeah, okay. It's going to be him." Like I just decided. So maybe we dance a couple of times. I legit don't remember. It was a night. And at some point I leave to go to the bathroom because why? Because I always have to go to the bathroom. This is a thing that we know about me. So I go by myself to the bathroom, I've got this little electric blue wallet thing. Remember when all the little wallets were like those rectangles that you like closed, it has like a little clasp?

Erica: It was like a little pur-. I know exactly what you're talking.

Kenrya: One of those ... It wasn't really a purse, but it was like a card holder. Yeah. But I was using it as a purse. And so all I really had in it, I had a card, I had an ID, luckily I did not have my passport. And so I go and I'm drunk. Right. So I sit it on the toilet paper holder thing, which, God, I would normally never do ...

Erica: Germs.

Kenrya: Because germs and I pee and I walk out and I wash my hands and I fucking go back to my friends, not realizing that I've left my wallet purse thing in the bathroom. Yeah. So I'm out there drunk, dancing, whatever. And at some point I realize I don't have my shit. So I run back to the bathroom. Of course it's gone. Like gone, gone. The attendant in the bathroom was helping me look. We going through the garbage, like everything trying to find my shit. It's gone. So I'm like, "All right, well I still have an objective for the night." Fuck that wallet.

Erica: Ain't no sense in crying over spilled milk.

Kenrya: Yeah. Well, you know, I did. They made an announcement. Of course. You know, my shit.

Erica: That was just, let's help this bitch feel better.

Kenrya: Exactly. But I was like fuck it. I was like, “You know what? This has been terrible, but I have a thing that I wanted to do. And what's the point of sticking around for the rest of the night? Let's go!” So I tell my crew that I'm heading back. I tell old dude where I'm staying. I leave, he leaves and meets me. I think he met me, I don't know, maybe 20 minutes later. After I got back to my room, I needed a minute to get myself together.

Erica: Wash your puss.

Kenrya: Yeah, I had been in the club, dancing, whatever. So I get back and I'm staying with a roommate-

Erica: Even though he probably brought over stank balls, just so you know.

Kenrya: I'm sure he did.

Erica: Like, niggas are the worst.

Kenrya: Exactly. And I was in my twenties. So, you know ...

Erica: We cared about those things.

Kenrya: Yeah. And so-

Erica: I mean, we still do but ...

Kenrya: But I mean, he was also in his twenties, he didn't give a fuck. Yeah. And I had a roommate because we were there for a wedding in another country. I wasn't a baller, like we were sharing a room. And so I had let her know when I was leaving the club, what was happening just in case she came back while I was still entertaining my company.

Erica: Entertaining your man friend.

Kenrya: So he came over, we had some sex. I don't even really remember too much about it, except for that it was what I wanted and that it was safe. And I sent him on his way. I mean, at that point it was too late for me to be worried about my shit. So whatever I was like-

Erica: We'll figure that shit out in the morning.

Kenrya: ... This'll at least be a nice way. Yeah. It was a nice way to end the night. So next morning, I'm calling Amex and calling and canceling all my cards and also trying to get some money, which is a reason why I always have an Amex because Amex will send money wherever the fuck you are, if there is something wrong because I had zero money at that point. I didn't even have money to get to the airport.

Erica: Damn.

Kenrya: Amex sent me money so that I could get a cab to go pick it up. It was a whole thing, but Amex is awesome for that. So then I find out this nigga calls my room. He's staying at the same resort.

Erica: Shit. Oh shit.

Kenrya: Which I did not know because again, my plan was for this to happen and then for us to each go our separate ways. He calls checking in, "Did you figure out your card stuff, find your wallet?" I'm like, "No, I'm working on it. Why are you calling me?" But I was a much nicer person at that point and so when he asked to exchange information, I said, "Sure."

Erica: You didn't mean it.

Kenrya: I didn't and so I stayed in DR, I don't know for maybe another day or two, go back to New York where I'm living at the time, I'm in Harlem. I get a call.

Erica: Oh my gosh.

Kenrya: It's this nigga. Where does he live? Brooklyn. Who does he want to see? Me.

Erica: Your Harlem bound ass.

Kenrya: I'm like, "Oh, well ..."

Erica: Well, I guess ... It's like that. I mean, where it's like, yeah, yeah, I got it. Yep.

Kenrya: So I end up saying, "Okay," because I'm like fuck it. I ain't with nobody. I might as well go on and get bust down again. But I think I had plans or something. So I like, “When I’m done with my work friends...”

Erica: You like super...

Kenrya: My life, I get home and he was standing on my stoop.

Erica: Was he singing songs? He should've been.

Kenrya: No. He was just waiting on me. It was very cute. And so I brought him in and we did the do, and it was fine. And then he kept calling and I remember I was going to an event. This was back when I was a magazine editor and I would always be at events and it was an Apple event and they always would do it at this one particular hotel that was really dope where they would bring you in and it was like a gifting suite. And so you come in.

Erica: Oh, yes.

Kenrya: That's how I got my first iPhone, with service.

Erica: I remember that.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: I remember when that bitch stayed on for years.

Kenrya: Yeah. It was on for more than a year. And I think it's supposed to be three months of service and somebody just forgot to turn that shit off.

Erica: I remember, you were like, you call me, it's like, "My phone off." Finally.

Kenrya: Right. So then I just transfered my number over to that phone. And that was the beginning.

Erica: And that was the end of your Nextel. Your chirp chirp.

Kenrya: Yep. That's how that happened.

Erica: Okay, sorry.

Kenrya: So anyway, I was coming back from one of those events. I'm walking through Bryant Park, which is where they used to do Fashion Week. And so it was very magazine, whatever. And I'm walking back to my office, which is in Times Square. And it's a sunny day, whatever. This nigga calls. I'm like, "God dammit." I'm like, "Okay, I think it's time to do this."

Kenrya: So I pick up, he's like, "Hey,” you know, “can I see you?" And I was like, "No." And he was like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "I don't really want to do that." And he was like, "Why?" I was like, "Well, this was never meant to be a whole thing." I was like, "I thought I was upfront about that but obviously I wasn't." I was like, "So I just got to tell you, I'm not interested in this turning into anything. I don't want to have sex regularly. I don't want to be in a relationship. I'm good." And he was like, "Well, can we just be friends?" And I was like, "I don't think so." I was like, "The only thing that we have in common is that we like to fuck each other."

Erica: Yeah. What the fuck?

Kenrya: And I made some comforting noises and I got off the phone.

Erica: Comforting. Oh. Hmm. Ah.

Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. So that is the story of one of my one night stands. How about you?

Erica: It took me a minute to think about a story that I haven't shared before.

Kenrya: Yeah. I think I've only shared the aftermath of this one. I don't think I had shared the whole thing.

Erica: But you talking about going to your office reminded me. So one of the things that I did when I was trying to figure out what the fuck I wanted to be when I grew up, I did commercial real estate. So-

Kenrya: I remember those days.

Erica: I worked at this commercial real estate firm and commercial real estate is an old white man sport. There are a few white women, few Black men. But if you're a Black woman in commercial real estate, you have really like, "Bitch, bow down." So I mean not this was in the olden days, but this was the early 2000s. So yeah, there was probably even less than there are now. So my office was on one half of the hall and there was another real estate firm on the other half, but they didn't really do commercial real estate. They did like investments. So it was a bunch of young slick niggas with suits and that kind of shit.

Erica: So there was this one dude and we kept flirting. We kept flirting, we kept flirting, and then one day we were like, "Hey, let's go." I guess this isn't a one night stand anyway. He's like, "Hey, let's go get some drinks after work." So I'm like, "Cool." So we go get some drinks after work. You know, liquor makes my pussy talk. Like in the words of my girl, JT and Yung Miami. So we get hot and heavy like there. So I was like, "I got to go back to my office and pick up something." So we get back to the office, he starts eating my pussy in the office.

Kenrya: Did you really have to pick up something?

Erica: No. I wanted him to eat my pussy in the office.

Kenrya: Okay.

Erica: So he eats my pussy in the office. And then he's like, "I can't wait to have you." So I'm like, "All right, you ain't got to wait. I live around the corner." So we go to my house. At this time I had a roommate and we ended up fucking in the ... We didn't even make it to my bedroom, we ended up fucking in the family room. We just ended up fucking in the family room. My dog sat on the couch and watched. We fucking standing up in a family room, middle of night. My roommate was in her room asleep. And then he left.

Kenrya: Andre was like, "Word?"

Erica: Yes. Andre was like, "Really? We going to do all that?" Yeah. And then we fucked and I was like, "It's really great meeting you." He was like, "Oh, I'm so sleepy." I said, "Well, you have a good drive back up to Dulles." And he left. I mean, that was the only time I fucked him, but I definitely did see him a lot, like in the hallway, on the elevator. And after that, I was like, "I don't know you." I definitely hit him with the same like, "Oh, hey, good, nice to see you. Yeah. I hope you have a good holiday." That kind of shit because it was like, "No, I wanted some dick and you smelled good that night." So yeah, that was that.

Kenrya: So I'm worried that both of our one night stand stories feature us not being that nice to people. Right. So, okay. There are ways-

Erica: But the thing is, I don't think he cared.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: I mean, I think-

Kenrya: He probably, he knew what he was getting into,

Erica: If anything, I think he was just mad he couldn't spend the night, but by then we had sobered up. So it's not like you were drunk driving, but I don't think he wanted like a relationship after that.

Kenrya: Okay, good.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: I don't know if this other nigga did too. But at the very least he wants a steady supply of pussy and I just wasn't interested in being his supplier.

Erica: Yeah. He was like, "Nah, we ain't doing that. We ain't doing this. We ain't go down this road." Yeah. And I don't think one night stands necessarily have to be mean.

Kenrya: I don't think they have to at all.

Erica: It's just a transaction. It was a transaction.

Kenrya: I'm worried that those two felt-

Erica: No, no, I didn't. I don't think it was mean or manipulative. I think the only manipulative part on my end was me saying, "I got to go pick up something from my office." That's when I wanted him to eat my pussy right there.

Kenrya: Right there.

Erica: But yeah.

Kenrya: Have you ever had a one night stand keep popping up, like how I had with that dude?

Erica: I don't think so. Or maybe because the thing is. Here is a thing, DC is but only so big. And then you do the, "I went to Howard," and then if you've been in DC for long enough, like if somebody work on the Hill, you got a girl that work on a Hill, so all y'all, it's just, there are maybe like four groups of people, you know, like groups of types of people.

Kenrya: [inaudible 00:18:18] Black people. Yeah.

Erica: And so you in one of them groups and you didn't. Yeah. It's interesting because my ex-husband used to stay making friends and I'd be like, "Nigga, don't make no friends because I probably done fucked them."

Kenrya: Yeah, that's happened a couple of times.

Erica: And he was cool about it and we didn't even have to have a whole conversation. I'm just like, "Full disclosure," and he'll be like, "Oh, okay." And I'm like, "Look, dude, I became an adult here in this city so I done put some miles on this pussy in the city." But yeah. So I don't think that there were any that were trying to do much. I mean, I think I ... Full disclosure, I think that there were one night stands where I was, I mean, like let's not act like I was a bad bitch the whole time. There were definitely one night stands that I had where I was like, "Come on, come back."

Kenrya: "Can I have some more?"

Erica: "Can I have some more porridge, please?" Or wanting to turn it into more than just what it was, two niggas fucking. So you know, let's play and we'll take it.

Erica: Oh my God, I forgot about another one and [inaudible 00:19:25].

Kenrya: And it's making you laugh like that.

Erica: Because I literally had a flashback of fucking this nigga and then our home girl picking me up and we went out to eat afterwards. Like I fucked him at my house. We went out to a club, came back from the club, I fucked him on the couch in my little studio and then my girl called and was like, "Bitch, we going to Waffle House or something." You know, like, "We going to The Diner," and I was like, "Okay, come get me."

Erica: And I was like, "It was really great seeing you." And then I went to the diner and he went his way. But I thought about that also because that was the one guy, I was like, "You're so sweet. You're so kind." And he was like, "Oh, bitch. I just wanted some pussy and you made it good the first time. Now you trying to want some more." So I mean, I don't want to make it seem that like this player didn't take no shit because I definitely did with some one night stands. So yeah.

Kenrya: Yeah. I had one of the situations where you were there in Miami.

Erica: Okay.

Kenrya: That turned into a, "Oh, I'm coming to visit New York. We should get together." You knew that, right?

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Erica: And like, "Bitch, you're coming to visit New York not me, right?" Yep. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: Yeah. We did end up doing it again though. It was good. And then that was that. I think we both understood that this was just another opportunity for us to touch and agree.

Erica: Touch and agree.

Kenrya: Keep it moving.

Erica: Ding.

Kenrya: Exactly.

Erica: All right, y'all. Well, this was our experiences with one night stands. Please share with us if you had some experiences with your one night stands that you want to share with us and with that, these are your two favorite hoe hosts.

Kenrya: That was cute.

Erica: Erica and Killa, two hoe hosts, making it clap.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: Anyway, bye.

Kenrya: Listen, okay. To be clear, right?

Erica: You go like this.

Kenrya: We are over video because I'm trying to time it and I can't and it's not like we in the same room. I felt like we did better when we were in the same room. Maybe.

Erica: Bye y'all.

Kenrya: Okay, bye. Bye.

[theme music]

Kenrya: This episode was produced by us Kenrya and Erica and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app and drop us a five star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Just post your review and email us a screenshot at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and you'll gain access to lots of goodies, including The Turn On Book Club and two for one raffle entries. And don't forget to send us your book recommendations and your sex and related questions and follow us on Twitter at @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram at @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at www.TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening and we will see you soon. Bye!