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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read "Brazilian Wax" from Jacqueline R. Hawkins' "The Erotic Tales: Love, Sex and Submission" and talk about having sex with unexpected people, what it really means to be old, waxing preferences and expectations, and getting naked with friends.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Hey y'all, funky monkeys. Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. So this is your lovely host, your lovely hoe hosts, Erica and Killa. This week, we are reading a listener submitted story titled Brazilian Wack. Wack. “Brazilian Wax.”
Kenrya: Yes, that.
Erica: It was submitted by our lovely listener, Jacqueline Hawkins. It is in her anthology, "The Erotic Tales: Love, Sex and Submission." So sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “Brazilian Wax” by Jacqueline R. Hawkins.
Kenrya: I woke up early Saturday morning to go to my wax appointment. The idea of not having to shave my pussy every few days was well worth the money. I've been going to the Beautiful Babe Salon for a few months now and I loved how my pussy looked and felt after it was over. The smoothness of my skin turned me on and when I play with myself, I'd imagined that it was my new aesthetician, Monica, who was rubbing my newly waxed pussy making me come all over her fingers. I get so wet thinking about her, but I was too shy to tell her that I wanted her to taste my sweetness.
Kenrya: Monica was a new employee of the salon having only started a few months before I started getting waxed there. The first time I met her, I was confused.
Kenrya: "Oh hey, this is Monica. She'll be taking over from Stacey from now on."
Kenrya: I later learned Stacy quit after she found a new job making twice the money she'd been making at Beautiful Babes. The first thing that I noticed about Monica was that she was a woman of color.
Kenrya: "Wow." I thought to myself, "Who would expect another sister out here in this ritzy ass salon?"
Kenrya: I was happy as well because even though Stacy was professional and made small talk with me, her reactions just seemed fake. I doubted that she was interested in me or my family. So when Monica came out, I was ecstatic to see a smiling brown face. Oh, and did I mention she was sexy too? She was curvy in all the right places under her purple scrubs.
Kenrya: "Hey, I'm Monica," she said extending her hand out the first time we met.
Kenrya: "Hey, I'm Jai," I said smiling at her.
Kenrya: Monica and I hit it off and I soon started to request her for all of my appointments. She made me feel at ease and was so familiar with the African American skin in general. I lay on a table naked from the waist down opened my legs, folding them out were like my feet were praying.
Kenrya: After my first wax, I laughed and said jokingly, "So now you're my bestie, ’cause you've seen all my goodies."
Kenrya: She laughed too and said, "I know right?"
Kenrya: After that first day, I had a crush on her. A few nights later, while lying naked in my bed, I started thinking about her. My pussy started to leak and my clit got engorged. I lay in my bed, rubbing my hardened clitoris, feeling the wetness all over my hands, but wishing that Monica was lying next to me and playing with my pussy. I came so hard and so fast. The idea of her mouth and fingers all over my smooth wet pussy was too much for me to handle. I'd fantasized about riding her pretty face and coming all over her lips.
Kenrya: A few weeks passed and once again, I was scheduled to get my Brazilian wax. I arrived at the salon later than normal having had to schedule my appointment after work. I walked in and signed in with the receptionist.
Kenrya: "Monica will be with you shortly," the young blonde woman said to me.
Kenrya: "Okay, thanks," I said looking up from my cell phone.
Kenrya: As I started to scroll through my Instagram feed, she walked out.
Kenrya: "Hey, girl, come on back," she said to me.
Kenrya: Before we walk through the doors into the back of the salon, the receptionist told Monica that she was going to leave for the day.
Kenrya: "She's your last customer. Can you just lock up when you finish?"
Kenrya: "Okay, no problem," she said finally rolling her eyes at the receptionist. "I swear she's always doing that stupid shit," she said as we walk into the room.
Kenrya: "What'd you say?" I asked her, dropping my purse on the table.
Kenrya: "That heffa always leaves early and asks me to lock this place up for her."
Kenrya: I laughed out loud because she was irritated.
Kenrya: "Yeah, I know. I still got you here right, Chica?" She said grinning and giving me a little wink.
Kenrya: I already knew the drill if I took off my skirt, my flats and my panties. I sat them on the chair and got up on the table.
Kenrya: "Hm. Cute panties," she said, looking over at me and noticing my Victoria's Secret.
Kenrya: "Thanks," I said and placed my hands on my lower belly.
Kenrya: Wow. She's noticing my panties now? I thought to myself.
Kenrya: We made small talk as she waxed me from front to back. I was already horny and the hot wax all over my pussy excited me even more. The closer she smoothed the hot wax near my clit, the more I could feel it swell and get harder and harder.
Kenrya: Shit, I thought. She's going to see it. Don't get excited now, please.
Kenrya: But with the heat of the wax, along with the slight pain made me hot and bothered. Monica immediately noticed how swollen my clit was.
Kenrya: "Hm. I see someone's excited," she said laughing a little.
Kenrya: I couldn't say anything because I was so embarrassed, so I just let out a nervous laugh, "Hm." I stammered.
Kenrya: "Hm. What?" She said, taking off one of her gloves.
Kenrya: She took the tip of one of her fingers on her right hand and ran it down the side of my clit, that actually made it stand out even more since the hair was gone from that area. She did it so quickly that I couldn't even process what was happening between us.
Kenrya: But I let out a quick moan, "Hm."
Kenrya: "So you like how I do that?" She says smirking.
Kenrya: "Hell yeah," I quickly said, not caring about being proper and pretending. "Yes. I like the way you do that. Can you do it again please?"
Kenrya: I finally had the nerve to look up in her eyes. She had a hungry look as she gazed down at me. She didn't say another word to me and she took the glove off and turned the lights down in the room.
Kenrya: "Open your legs for me. I want to see just how hard that little clit can get," she said in a husky voice.
Kenrya: She started rubbing my clit slowly, letting the wetness ease over her fingers. Slow then fast, she stroked my clit until I felt like I would explode.
Kenrya: I moaned softly as she worked me out. Right before I thought I would finally cum, she stopped and smoothly pulled my shirt over my head. She unhooked my bra, freeing my pierced nipples in the process.
Kenrya: "So your nipples pierced too, huh?"
Kenrya: "Yes," I say breathlessly looking into her eyes. "Why did you stop?" I said almost pleading with her.
Kenrya: My pussy felt as if it would explode from the inside out. I started to feel that telltale sign and I knew I was close to orgasming.
Kenrya: "Shh," she said as she pulled me up into a sitting position on the table.
Kenrya: Monica grabbed her stool and sat between my legs.
Kenrya: "Damn, all this pretty pussy in my face," she said as she opened my legs as wide as they would go.
Kenrya: She planted tiny kisses all over my mound, making sure not to touch my clit. I moaned even louder as she began to just lick and suck my pussy like she was eating a melting ice cream cone.
Kenrya: "Fuck," I said over and over as she expertly ate my pussy, sending shivers through my whole body. Monica seemed to know just when I was about to cum, and she stopped just when I was about to cum. Every time, I beg her not to stop.
Kenrya: "Oh. Please, baby, don't. I'm about to cum." I moan to her.
Kenrya: "Open your legs and touch your ankles," she told me. "Yeah, just like that. I want all that good pussy in my face."
Kenrya: Monica's lips were wet and glistening with my juices. She licked her lips slowly as she put her face back down between my legs. She alternated between licks and sucks until I felt that familiar sensation caused through my body. I began to lose control as the first of three orgasms rip through me back to back. But Monica never stopped licking and sucking. My body was in complete spasm. I couldn't hold back anymore as the last one came through, and I grabbed the back of her head and held her there not wanting to let this delicious feeling ever stop. My whole body was tingling as I collapsed back on the table.
Kenrya: Monica looked up at me licking her lips and smiling, "So this means you're coming back in four weeks, right?"
Erica: So we are back. Thank you, Killa, for a lovely reading. This one was a short story so we don't have to really give much background.
Kenrya: Yeah. I was going to say, y'all heard the whole thing.
Erica: Y'all heard the whole thing, the whole juicy, squirty, nasty thing.
Kenrya: From beginning to end.
Erica: So first, let's shout out Jacqueline. She is one of our listeners and she's been rocking with us for a while now.
Kenrya: Yeah, like super engaged on the social media. I think she asked on IG, like do we take user submissions? I was like, "Absolutely."
Erica: Fuck yeah. It makes our job easier.
Erica: So yeah, so thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jacqueline, for shouting us out and sending us this information. So me saying shouting us out made me realize, "Bitch, we old." Like-
Kenrya: Yeah, but why did that make you realize that?
Erica: Kenrya had her birthday recently. We did one of those tribute things where everybody sends in videos. I realize that we use-
Kenrya: It’s the sweetest thing.
Erica: Old people ass words.
Kenrya: Yeah. I was cringing myself.
Erica: We were like, "Yeah. You bout it bout it."
Kenrya: Yes. Somebody said we was bosso. She said I was bosso, which is like an old school Delta term.
Erica: Even we not that old school.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Just stuff that we used. I'm like, "Yo, we old as fuck."
Kenrya: So today. I'm saying y'all old as fuck because I'm not in the video.
Erica: Birds of a feather, quack, quack, motherfucker.
Kenrya: Whatever, whatever, whatever.
Erica: So I'm driving my kid home from school today. He's telling me how his teacher plays Among Us with students in the class. I was like, "Is that game where people are sus?" You would have thought I had like, did a whole fucking stand up routine the way this kid laughed. Nigga, sus is a word. I use sus.
Kenrya: That's what I was about to say. They think that sus is ... I'm like, nigga, it's short for suspect. It's not a new word.
Erica: Yeah, like she looked me as sus. We used it before there was a fucking Among Us. It just made me mad. I'm like, "Bro. I ain't fucking old. I mean, I'm old. But I ain't that old." But it's just yeah, it's wild.
Kenrya: They just think that we're ancient. I don't remember ever really thinking that older people were old. I felt like I always had a pretty decent amount of perspective around what old really was.
Erica: Nigga, I didn't. I did not. I did not. Did fucking not. My mama was like old as crust.
Kenrya: You didn't.
Erica: By the time my mama was my age, my dad died at 40.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.
Erica: Nigga, do you know how much life I got ahead of me?
Kenrya: So yeah. Sorry about that.
Erica: You know how much life I got ahead of me?
Kenrya: I think maybe part of why old wasn't like ... Things didn't seem old to me. So my dad's the youngest of 15 kids. To me-
Erica: He was young.
Kenrya: He was young. Yeah, he's the baby. My dad's, he's gaining on his late 60s right now. I still don't really think of him as old. I had an auntie who died when I was in high school. We have the exact same birthday 50 years apart. I mean, I think of her as I guess, yeah, if she were still here, she would have turned 90 last week. So I guess I think of her.
Erica: Jesus Christ. Damn. That's a lot of kids.
Kenrya: Yeah, my family is fucking huge. My dad's best friend is his nephew. They are a year apart.
Kenrya: They grew up together.
Erica: Some things never change.
Kenrya: Yeah. All right, bitch. Move along.
Erica: Yeah, that's wild. No, no, in my mind, my mama was old as fuck.
Erica: Also, in my mind, that was like in black and white days. Color didn't exist until we were of age, which hurts me because last night my aunt was going through pictures and stuff. She sent me a picture of my first Howard boyfriend.
Kenrya: Oh wow.
Erica: We came to we both came to St. Louis to visit family. That was like ... So I saw the picture and I sent it to him. I'm like, "This shit looks like a fucking daguerreotype." Isn't that what they're like? Don't move.
Kenrya: Stand there real still. Yeah, yeah. With the long ass exposure.
Erica: This shit was blurred than a motherfucker. I'm like, yeah. Damn.
Kenrya: So technology has advanced a lot. I think about that sometimes. Okay. My kid thinks that black and white is just like, "What the fuck?" We were watching something. Mind you, when she was little, she used to watch black and white musicals because you gave her a whole bunch of them for her fourth birthday.
Erica: Yes. Problematic ass “Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.”
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah, we only finished that one once. But we watched the some of the others several times. “Meet Me in St. Louis” has been watched several times. It's got its own issues, but it's really good.
Erica: It's a little problematic. But look, she will always see it and remember Auntie Munch.
Kenrya: Exactly. But so she thinks that black and white is just like, "Oh my God. The bitches is from the Stone Age." She also seems to think that we were born in the 1800s because she don't really get how numbers work. Yo, when she was like ...
Erica: Wait, wait.
Kenrya: She just knows it was before the 2000s. She don't fucking know. I remember when I when I was in my early 30s.
Kenrya: Yeah, she don't know. She don't have no real concept of time. She ain't got a concept of a fucking half an hour, let alone decades and centuries. She used to think it was the funniest thing though, she shady as hell. I remember I was 33. I would ask her or other people will ask her how old I was. She would say 43. I'll be like, "Nah, little nigga. I'm 33." She'd be like, "Yeah. 43." She just thought it was funny as hell. She knew. Exactly. Literally the Norbert Beebo situation all over again. But she was dead ass. This is how old you are and this is what I'm going to say. It doesn't matter that I'm a decade off because she don't care. It's all the same.
Erica: So when I was little, now that you're saying that, when I was younger, people are like, "How old is your mom?" 40. She was always 40. The day she died, she was 40 in my mind because I never bothered to keep up with it. I never bothered to keep up with it. How old's your mama? She's 40. She was 40 for like fucking 30 years. She had like a span before and after.
Kenrya: In which you were identifying her as 40. She probably wanted to beat yo ass.
Erica: Yeah, until she turned 41. She was like, "Wow. This alright."
Erica: Okay. Enough of our old ass. This story. There's been lots of talk about like, "Do your partner like a bald vagina, a smooth vagina?" Actually my cancer group, we have had a lot of discussion about body hair because some of us are in the middle of chemo. Others have done chemo. The best thing about chemo was that I didn't have a lick of body hair. Like from here down, I was a fucking bear. No, no, I won't use it. It was smooth as a motherfucker. Is a motherfucker smooth?
Kenrya: I mean, if you say he is.
Erica: From my neck down.
Kenrya: From her chin. Yes.
Erica: It was smooth. Even my face was good because I'm a little fucking Ewok. Girl, when I started growing like that-
Kenrya: So even the random facial hairs were gone too, everything?
Erica: Not even random facial hair, that doesn't make you an Ewok. I have like a fucking layer of just ... I'm a little ball of fur. When I was trying to grow my hair back, all the cancer groups were just like, "Take biotin. Take biotin." Bitch, I had a fucking handlebar mustache. I'm going to tell you about that. I said, "Oh now, it just got too much." It was horrible. So I am thinking about laser hair removal, particularly for my puss because and it's not even for somebody else. It's just I want a shorn pussy. Right? But then I keep thinking about that scene in ... It's a movie. I don't remember what it is. They're at a winery and this woman was like, "I got laser hair removal on my puss. But now I'm going to be an 80-year-old woman with a billy goat tuft." I was like, "Do I want a billy goat tuft?" My home girl was like, "I got it all waxed, all lasered off."
Kenrya: Yeah, I don't like a bald situation. I don't like it. I like a-
Kenrya: So when I used to do ... No, not.
Erica: You like a high and tight.
Kenrya: I get ingrowns so I can't even like go low because low curls back in because that hair.
Erica: That's why I want ... Well, a Caesar is all one. It's not a buzz.
Kenrya: I mean, that's essentially what I do now because I finally bought like a little electric because bitch, I was using scissors. I almost cut my clit off. So I bought one of those, like a little Phillips razor rechargeable thing and it's awesome. I put the number three guard on and it does exactly what I want it to do. I'll send it to you, show you what it is.
Erica: No, no. Because I definitely ...
Kenrya: You think you have that one?
Erica: No, because when I was getting my hair cut regularly, it was two on the sides, three in the middle. That's what I was getting.
Kenrya: Because I only want it to a level because if it goes too low, I get ingrowns. But I started with sugaring back when I lived in New York and that hurt.
Erica: Nigga, no.
Kenrya: I know that now. But I didn't know at the time. One of our friends and I went to do it. I screamed so loud that they were like, "Listen either you going to stop or you we going to have are we going to have to stop altogether because you're scaring one of our linesisters."
Erica: Bitch, we got a ton.
Kenrya: This one. Wait. We on video now. Nobody going to know what that means. Anyway, we went to do that. So then I after a while, because I realized, "Okay, that shit hurts." Even though I learned how to prep eventually so that it didn't hurt so much. But then I started waxing when I moved out here and I found a great Black anesthetist? Is that the word?
Erica: You about to call this woman a damn-
Kenrya: A nurse anesthetist. I mix them up. Yes.
Erica: Same difference, same to you.
Kenrya: So yeah. So she's awesome but then COVID happened. I probably stopped before that. Who knows? But I don't care and I don't like it all the way down. Even when I was doing it, I like a little landing strip. I was like, "Be there." Once somebody accidentally bared, I was like, “Uh….”
Erica: I remember the first time I got a wax. I literally got on the Metro and was like this, I'm like y'all. Describe for the listeners.
Kenrya: You know you on video. Okay. It appears that she is peering into her leggings because I know you ain't got on real pants.
Erica: Bitch, I got on sweatpants. But yeah. I was wiggling like ... I rode like six stops like with my pants open like, looking like, "Damn, that's a pretty pussy." Yeah. So I like the look, I like the feel. That's why I want to do laser because with laser, if you don't have it, the hair grows back. But I am getting waxed soon before my Eat Pray Love Situation.
Kenrya: Birthday, yes.
Erica: I'm going to get a vagacial.
Kenrya: Vagacial? Is that a what's it like?
Erica: It's like a ...
Kenrya: I don't know.
Erica: Facial for your vag.
Kenrya: A rejuvenation situation? What do they do?
Erica: No, no. That's the Mona Lisa, which they talk about heavily in the breast cancer groups.
Kenrya: What is that?
Erica: I don't know the detail because I haven't been enough to look for it. But from what I understand, it helps with you puss. A lot of times women that have experienced breast cancer, because you're on all these like medicines and hormones, it's like an earring. You don't use it, that bitch close up with atrophy. So the Mona Lisa I know some women use because it make your pussy tight. Other women's just be like, "Look, make this motherfucker work." So from what I understand, it helps with having sex. I'm not doing that. I just want to get like a little facial down there. They say it helps keep everything soft and supple and keeps the ingrowns from coming back. Going into my Eat Pray Love Situation, I am all about luxury. I am all about Black girl luxury because I'm quitting my job soon. So this might be the last time I get to enjoy true luxury for a minute. So yeah. I will have the finest of things. But back to sugaring, bitch.
Kenrya: Yeah, I didn't know.
Erica: Sugaring is so brutal. Sugaring reminds me of when you find ... You know how I have a dog. I used to have dog when I was a kid and instead of a lint roller, we just take some packing tape and just pat your leg.
Kenrya: Like what you do when you ain't got a lint roller and you get the lint off your black pants very quick.
Erica: Exactly. That is what sugaring is, because it's not even like they like ...
Kenrya: It's taking silly putty and just putting it on and ripping it off over and over again. Yeah. I didn't know when I had never had any type of hair removal before that. I think I got like a coupon or maybe my homegirl, like she just wanted to do because she was in town. I was like, "Fuck it." I remember entering ...
Erica: Sorry. Wait. I knew that I needed to mute myself so y'all could-
Kenrya: Yeah. But you forgot.
Erica: I forgot y'all can see me burp. My bad, y'all. Okay.
Kenrya: That's okay. Everybody burps. So we went to do it. I mean, I learned later and the same thing goes for waxing, right? You want about a quarter of an inch. Anything longer, anything shorter you're setting yourself up. But I didn't know at the time and it was way too long. I thought I was going to die. I agree.
Erica: Yeah. My shit's a forest right now. You see the hair on my head? That's how long my shit is right now, which also shows it.
Kenrya: At least it grew back.
Erica: I mean, yeah. But I definitely would've been fine without.
Kenrya: You would've been fine. Yeah.
Erica: Bitch, the hair on my legs right now, so long.
Kenrya: See, you know me, I'm not super hairy. So I go, I think the last time I touched my legs was New Year's Eve.
Erica: Bitch, you could fucking do macrame with my shit right now. You could fucking do a hook and chain Afghanistan. All the shit's on my legs.
Kenrya: My God.
Erica: They're pretty fucking crazy. Okay. So there has been lots of discussion about whether or not partners enjoy a waxed puss or a shortened puss or whatever. I have heard from some men, no man that I've been with. I don't know what. But they're like, some men are just like ... Let me say I've heard from men, like saying it. Anyway. Some men that I've heard from is like, "I need a little hair down there to remind me that I'm not ..."
Kenrya: Yes. I too have to have heard that. Which yep ...
Erica: I'm like ... When you admit, you ain't going to ... Yeah. I know too much for what to do. You to be reminded about anything young. He was like, this grizzled pussy got some miles on it. She know what she doing.
Kenrya: I have never had a man say that they wanted one thing or another.
Erica: Nigga, you don't get to comment.
Kenrya: You know what, that's not true.
Erica: You don't get to comment.
Kenrya: There was one person who ... Damn, we really can't do codes no more because people can see us. Yeah, we do codes all the time when nobody can see us to tell each other who we talking about. I had one person who wants basically said that he didn't go down on me as often because he wanted there to be less hair there. I was like, "Okay. It ain't that good anyway. We all right."
Erica: Yeah. Yeah.
Kenrya: I kept right on with what the fuck I was doing which was when I felt like it.
Erica: You going to get the pussy that's served.
Erica: You're going to get the pussy that's served before you. You don't get the right to request.
Kenrya: I know. I don't say nothing about you. As long as you clean.
Erica: Now, here comes problematic ass Erica. Yeah. You can't have all that long furry.
Kenrya: You see what it is though?
Erica: That's me scraping a fucking hair off the back of my tongue.
Erica: Keep that shit.
Kenrya: I tend to be with men who ... Well, now, I keep my trimmed down. I am courteous to the fact that you're going to have ...
Erica: That's just courtesy.
Kenrya: I expect the same.
Erica: My shit is not courteous right now.
Kenrya: I expect the same courtesy that I am extending. But also, I have been with lots of men who lift and all of that kind of stuff. They tend to be better about shaving everywhere. That's like a thing that goes with that hand in hand. It's with the key.
Erica: I never understood shaving the chest though.
Kenrya: In my past experience. Yeah, I don't care.
Erica: Have you ever gotten a shaven chest?
Kenrya: I have, yeah.
Erica: Shave their chest. I mean, I probably should shave my chest. I'm not that furry.
Kenrya: The only time it's even a little bit of a thing is when it's first starting to grow back, it can be a little stubbly. But you deal with it because by the time I'm up against the stubble, wow, there's a lot of other stuff going on. I don't care.
Erica: Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, let's be honest. If we're going to do a general overview of Erica's lovers, we have more on the ... I mean, less on the "I lift" side of the line than on the "I lift" side of the line.
Kenrya: That is true. Yes.
Erica: Actually as I think about it, the lovers that are on the "I lift" side of the line, they do. But the other ones, they got titties.
Kenrya: That's fine, say that out loud. You did say that out loud.
Erica: I love meat.
Kenrya: Nothing wrong with that either.
Erica: It was funny because I definitely had ... Okay. If you ask me, I say I don't have a type, all right. Everybody around me says I have. Then one of my girlfriends-
Kenrya: You 100% have a type.
Erica: One of my girlfriends from fucking sixth grade was like, "Yeah. We was at sixth grade. Erica was like, 'Oooo, I love some Gerald Levert."
Kenrya: You're consistent.
Erica: You're like a big old nigga that's got ... “What's up?” And I did. I was like, "Oh, damn. Did I?" Yeah.
Kenrya: You know I used to be in a choir. Every time you hear “Ain't No Stopping Us Now,” you text me and be like, "Bitch, you ruined my song." Because I was in this like ...
Erica: Which is why, wait, wasn't that what DMX was ... No. Was it DMX? Who was it? At the end of the Verzuz, somebody would-
Kenrya: It was ... Oh my God. It was Wu-Tang. So it was ...
Kenrya: I forget, it was someone that ...
Erica: Ghostface and ...
Kenrya: The little short one.
Erica: Yeah. Wait. Ghostface is the little short one.
Erica: Yes, yeah.
Erica: The little gummy bear. They was like doing that old grandpa. The grandpa-ass.
Kenrya: Yes, with a towel.
Erica: Yeah. I was just like, “Oh shit.” Here Kenrya go.
Kenrya: Yeah. I'm from Cleveland. This was sponsored by the radio station, WZAK.
Kenrya: 93.1. It was the Black station back then. I don't know what it is now because I haven't been home and I don't listen to the radio when I do go home. But I know we got some listeners in Cleveland, y'all, I'm talking about. They used to sponsor this choir and it was kids. We sang church songs. I think they called us an “inspirational choir.” So we traveled to churches all around the state. Yeah. Lots of Kirk Franklin, lots of “Ain't No Stopping Us Now.” So we would tour churches and we would sing there. And so I met a bunch of people actually in doing that. I forgot where I was going with this story, but whatever. Mike Tyson, we opened for Hammer once, we opened for Mase. We opened for Total, at Geauga Lake. We sang “The Star-Spangled Banner” at the circus. I mean, just literally anything that you ...
Erica: Y'all need kids? We got some.
Kenrya: Yeah. We would have our call time. We had all these different outfits. So they'd be like, “Red.” So all through Christmas, we had red. We had our red dresses. We had green dresses. We had black, we had white. Just depending on what the church was, if it was daytime, if it was nighttime. We was all over the place. I cannot remember why I started this story.
Erica: Me either. Well.
Kenrya: It was something about “Ain't No Stopping Us Now.” Then there was another song.
Erica: Ghostface. Rakewon, Rakewon the Chef, “Cherchez La Ghost”face.
Kenrya: I'm sure it will come. I'm sure it'll come back to me.
Erica: That song reminds me so much of freshman year. It comes-
Kenrya: “Tommy Mattola lives on the road. For what?” (singing).
Erica: So my group of homies in college, I'm letting you provide the soundtrack.
Kenrya: I don't remember. I don't know. You good.
Erica: No, you got it.
Kenrya: “He lost his-” (singing).
Erica: So my group, my crew freshman year was a chick from Oakland, a chick from Brooklyn, a chick from the Bronx, me from St. Louis, and a chick from Chicago. I'm probably missing somebody. But it was definitely West Coast, East Coast, Midwest. Did I have somebody from San Francisco and shit? I don't think so. But anyway, there are certain songs that I hear and I think about, looking at something, a chick from Detroit. So I think about looking at particular people in the club. That song, my friend from Oakland would get so hype and start crip walking to it. Then my girls, from fucking Brooklyn be like, "You can't fucking crip walk to that song. You can't crip walk to that song."
Kenrya: I mean, it literally makes no sense. How do you even crip walk to that song? It don't lend itself to it.
Erica: Crip walking was generous.
Kenrya: I'm sure you can crip walk to anything. Okay.
Erica: No. The idea that she was crip walking was generous. I mean, whatever, I whatever.
Kenrya: I used to only be able to crip walk to "Drop it Like it's Hot." If "Drop it Like it's Hot" came on and I had shots, I was crip walking.
Erica: No. “Xplosive.”
Kenrya: Also “Xplosive.”
Erica: Wait, wait.
Kenrya: That's not “Xplosive.” That's not it. That's not “Xplosive.”
Erica: Well, anyway. I can crip walk to specific songs.
Kenrya: “The Next Episode.” I don't know what it's called but it's what they say.
Erica: Yeah. Then in “The Next Episode.” Then they always go into “Xplosive.” The reds. Okay. So thinking about this story, this chick took a very, very vanilla situation. She went and left. She went and left.
Kenrya: Yeah. Something I would never ...
Erica: In the most ... Because here's the thing-
Kenrya: It's so businesslike when you're actually getting it done.
Erica: So that wasn't the lit, like her anthology. So we were like just flipping through. I think I was the one that first found, who was flipping through. I was like, "Brazilian Wax," I was like, "Oh shit." Turn on a bitch real quick. It made me question, and I think we asked this of our guests in the next episode but like, "Okay. Have you ever had a situation like that?" I was thinking as I prepared for this episode, at first, I was thinking, "No." Then I remembered I dated barbers.
Kenrya: You date barbers.
Erica: Only two. So one, it was the stereotype guy.
Erica: But then I remember I was dating this one guy who was a barber. I was a little thot. I always used to tell my ex-husband, "Nigga, I became an adult in DC. So yeah." But yeah, there was this guy. He was a barber. He was at a particular shop, I'm not going to call it out because they didn't have many young people. So y'all know exactly who it was. Except he wasn't that young.
Kenrya: I was going to say, okay young.
Erica: But this was when I was living in the house.
Erica: There was a barber shop nearby. Okay. It was so gross. So I went there, and I got my hair cut by this dude. He kind of kept like ...
Kenrya: Of course he did.
Erica: I mean, niggas are niggas, right? Erica is a nigga, right?
Erica: If you're going to drop it, I might pick it up. So he kept dropping, and I was like, you know what, I will pick this up. So we ended up fucking in the barber shop.
Kenrya: Okay. That is very similar to this situation.
Erica: Yeah, but it was. Because it was like I had an evening appointment. Then he just kept dropping it. Then he cut my hair. I was like, "Oh. Well, I'll wait for you to clean up." Then he cleaned up. Then like ...
Kenrya: Did y'all go to the ...
Erica: In the front.
Kenrya: Isn't there a window?
Erica: Not that barbershop. Well, maybe you are thinking it. Not the one ... Goddammit okay. But anyway.
Kenrya: You were able to be concealed from the street.
Erica: We were able to conceal what was happening, because it was in the evening. The lights were out. But yeah.
Erica: I definitely did that, I definitely did that.
Kenrya: Was it worth it? Did you enjoy it?
Erica: Bitch, I didn't remember until fucking less than 24 hours ago when I was trying to prepare for this show.
Kenrya: Okay. I mean, it served a purpose of ...
Erica: Yeah. I was like ... Yeah. But anyway, it definitely went left. Have you ever had any situations like that?
Kenrya: Mm-mm (negative).
Erica: I was thinking ...
Kenrya: I can't think of any. No. I mean, you know my history about as well as I do. I don't think so.
Erica: Okay, so you know how we talk about barbers. So what did they say were thot jobs?
Kenrya: Thot jobs.
Erica: Barbers. HVAC techs.
Kenrya: Barbers, DJs.
Erica: DJs. Y'all. Barbers, DJ, HVAC techs.
Kenrya: Promoters, club promoters.
Erica: Promoters be like swimming pussy.
Kenrya: That's the number one thot job.
Erica: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: Tattoo artists, word to my cousin.
Erica: Girl. What does it mean?
Kenrya: My cousin is an excellent tattoo artist.
Erica: Speaking of which, I got started my tattoo removal today. Nigga. That shit hurt.
Kenrya: You were there for so long. Yeah. Even with the numbing stuff?
Erica: Yeah. I knew I should've brought my own numbing cream or at least did it. But it was so fucking long. The entire time, I was like ... But it's on its way out.
Kenrya: Okay. Hopefully, it's just a few sessions and it'll be clear.
Erica: Yeah. I'm hoping. They say three at the minimum. But start talking.
Kenrya: Okay. Well, hopefully.
Erica: Okay. Yeah. Sorry.
Kenrya: It will be fast and the estimate of three would be accurate and you don't have to deal with that too much longer. You can pre-numb before you go?
Erica: Huh? What's that?
Kenrya: You can pre-numb now that you ...
Erica: I want to pre-numb before I go. Then also I'm wondering if I can ice myself because when you're doing it, they have a vacuum cleaner that it blows cold air on it while they're doing it. Yeah. It's like the equivalent when you're getting a wax and you go ... Then she slaps it.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Erica: So yeah. You what feel good ...
Kenrya: Can you bring that little portable fan thing that you have?
Erica: No, their shit's better, it's like ... Oh my. Okay. Waxing. I'm all over the place on this call. Waxing.
Erica: Everyone thinks that the hardest part is between your booty cheeks. Right?
Kenrya: That's the easy part.
Erica: That's the easy part.
Kenrya: You don't even feel nothing at that point.
Erica: Flip over. Here, okay.
Kenrya: Yeah, that's the easy part.
Erica: That's the best part. Because you'd be coming out.
Kenrya: Yeah, it don't even feel like nothing. That's when you start talking.
Erica: Did I tell you I bought a home wax kit?
Kenrya: No. I was thinking of our friend who bought one. Maybe talk about that.
Erica: Amazon needs to stop allowing me to purchase things. Right?
Kenrya: We got at least two friends who tried that who said it was hell. Why did you do that?
Erica: Anyway, yes. I bought it. I feel like Amazon needs a parental purchase, a button that triggers if I'm going to order something, it should email you or somebody and be like ...
Kenrya: Do you approve?
Erica: Let someone with a cooler head decide it. Okay. So also, sex with unexpected people. Have you had sex with somebody that you had been like, that you didn't ... That you were like, "This would be nice." But then it happens. You were like, "Well, goddamn."
Kenrya: Okay. Not that. I've had sex with someone, who I had never ever thought about having sex with. Then it happened.
Erica: Was it a monster dick?
Erica: Was it good sex?
Kenrya: It was fine, it was very fast.
Erica: You made that shit sound like it was a fucking peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
Erica: I mean, he had some protein and sugars in it.
Kenrya: You were there.
Erica: I was there?
Kenrya: It was a very drunken. Okay. So this is when I came. No. This was our lost weekend. Okay, okay. It was in a bathroom. It was a lot of people in various areas. Yeah, ended up being in the bathroom because there was somebody else in the bed.
Erica: Ah, the Easter situation. Now, I got this situation. And continue.
Kenrya: Yeah, no. Because I remember there was somebody else in the bed.
Erica: It was a lot happening, it was a lot happening. It's funny because this particular group of people that are always like, "Oh my God. I've never been to a sex club. I'd never ..." Bitch, I can tell you a weekend you were at a sex club.
Kenrya: What do you think that was?
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. I walked in on all kinds of things. It was a night, it was a weekend.
Erica: It was a weekend. Oh. That was a bad weekend.
Kenrya: I mean, yeah. So the actual situation was very fast. It was the culmination of two very drunken days. I wasn’t expecting a lot, but it was like, this is how this has to end. We have to do this. We can't not do this. But it was also someone who I've known for years. It was fine. But you know what it was? It was like, oh, maybe we'll try this again when we're actually sober and want to take time and that kind of thing, but not like ... I don't know. The shortness of it was excused by everything that had come before is really all I can say. I didn't expect a lot.
Erica: I've had homies that were like homies. We definitely had sex on some overt homies. But we didn't become homies, I don't think either of us became homies with the intention of this is only sex. It would be just like we grew up with homies. Then we had sex. It was like ...
Kenrya: Yeah. That was that situation. I don't know that either of us thought it was going to necessarily turn into something more. I remember we talked after. We're like if we ever happen to be in the same city again, because neither of us lived in DC at the time. So it's like if we ...if we happen-
Erica: That was the wildest-
Kenrya: To be in the same city.
Erica: Fucking weekend ever.
Kenrya: Holy shit. We'll have to do a story time on that one time. Then the next time we saw each other, we were both married. So that was that. Yeah.
Kenrya: So definitely came out of left field is not at all what I thought was going to happen that weekend. Then here we go.
Erica: What's crazy I like he was one of them pass around niggas.
Erica: He was for the streets.
Kenrya: A whole lot of people that went that road. Yes, definitely for the streets.
Erica: He was for the streets. I mean, but hey. Not really for me.
Kenrya: Yeah. But I never had a situation like this with the ... Well, I'm past stranger situations. But those are like I made a determination of what I was going to do and then I ...
Erica: Do tell. You got a story for us?
Kenrya: I think I've already told those stories on the one night ... We did a one-night stand storytime. I already told those.
Erica: Yeah. Okay, okay.
Kenrya: Or some of them.
Erica: All right. Yeah. So yeah. Not that this is my MO, but it has happened enough with me. Remember you were telling about the guy in the Subway that was cute. Then I was like, "Don't tell me." Then we'd always be at that Subway and like, "Why we always get free food at this Subway?”
Kenrya: He was such a cutie patootie. Yeah. Then they closed that Subway. So that was that.
Erica: That was that. Damn. I can't fuck for a tuna sandwich. So horrible. Okay. I'm trying to think if I had like an unexpected. I mean, yeah, it's just been friendships where it was just like, "Oh, we ended up here." Again, I have no problem showing my puss, showing a titty. He didn't either. Then I was like, "Well, that's a nice looking finger. I wonder when that was on."
Kenrya: All right. It's funny. My partner and I were just having this. We've already talked about this, and I think he just forgot about one of the friends that I had sex with because ...
Erica: Was this like because he was watching your video?
Kenrya: No. Oh no, no. We never did that. It was because somebody called on my birthday. I had already told him that story, but I guess he forgot. So I had to tell that my story, because that's the one time I ever cheated. We should tell them our cheating stories. Yes. Not now. But on another episode. The one time I ever cheated.
Erica: I ain't trying to get you jacked up.
Kenrya: Well, anyway-
Erica: We all cheated, I cheated.
Kenrya: He had forgotten that that was the that was the person who I had cheated with, or whatever. But I never get that. I was very upfront about the fact that that was the situation that I did. I mean, it was what it was.
Erica: Yeah, I'm like ...
Kenrya: We'll do cheating on another episode.
Erica: But yes.
Kenrya: Because cheating doesn't factor in here.
Erica: So this makes me think of friends that we fuck and how like some guys are like women and men can't be friends because there's always a chance that you're going to fuck and that kind of thing. I get it because I definitely have guy friends that I fucked. The guy friends that I have fucked that I still keep around, it's not like we would get so wrapped up that was like ... So it was like, all right. We did it, we did it.
Kenrya: I think maybe some of that is because they don't know how to turn that off and we do. Maybe? You know what I mean?
Erica: You know what, it reminds me of what Akynos said when we were interviewing her and she was like,"You take different energy at different places." So like a gynecologist sees pussy all day, but he ain't going to take gyno energy into seeing his woman's pussy.
Kenrya: Exactly. Yeah, that's a really great “anagoly.”
Erica: “Anagoly.” Did you call it “anagoly”?
Kenrya: I was trying to just keep going and then your bitch ass had to point it out.
Erica: Because you never fuck it up. So I'm sorry. I'm usually the one like, "Is that a word?" Yes, Erica. It is a word.
Kenrya: It's a wonderful analogy. Because I remember when my friend and I were first having in the beginning, conversations about friends and exes and that kind of thing. He's like, "There are certain subjects that I literally never talk to women who I'm not in a relationship with." He was like, "Because I don't ever want the conversation to go left." He was like, "So I just don't put myself in those situations and then I don't have to worry about it because they don't cross the line, because I don't talk about those topics." I was like, alright.
Erica: Yeah. I don't trust a nigga that will come to me for relationship advice. One, nigga, I'm not the one to be coming to for relationship advice. Because I'd be like, "Have a threesome. Bring a friend in. Show her how much you love her." I'm the wrong person. So I know if you're trying to have like, "My girl won't do a thing." Nigga ...
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. That explosion.
Erica: It'll be different if I knew I gave solid advice to relationships. Not that I give fucked up advice. But no. If you came to me like, hey, teach my wife how to suck some dick, great. You've got a fucking pro here. Right? But if you're trying chill, nigga. What the fuck I look like?
Kenrya: Yeah. Don't come to me complaining about ...
Erica: You're trying to tell me you got to a ... So yeah. Well, no, nigga. No, no. So I just try to ...
Kenrya: Well, it comes down to having healthy boundaries and not let a nigga let you suck you into their stuff, you know what I mean? So anyway, none of that anything to do with what happened.
Erica: Girl, how did we even get here? I'll get a new chair, y'all. Because I'm not getting here. Yeah. Well, long and short of the story, I like the waxed puss. Kenrya likes a Caesar.
Kenrya: No, I like one little line. But I'm not interested in the time or the effort or the pain that it takes to get there. So I only do it occasionally.
Erica: Okay. All right. Okay.
Kenrya: So yeah. I don't care enough to put myself through that on a regular basis, especially not during COVID. I'm good, but that's me.
Erica: I have a hell of eyebrows done, but definitely need the nails done. Okay. So do you have anything else to say about this story before we move onto ...
Kenrya: What's turning us on?
Erica: Jesus fucking Christ.
Kenrya: No. I did, I did.
Erica: Jumpin Jehosephat. Okay.
Kenrya: Girl, I didn't.
Erica: We're going to take a break and come back to ...
Kenrya: What's turning us on.
Erica: We'll be back.
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Erica: Okay, y'all. So this week's What's Turning Us On, first, I decided to bring ... Oh my. This is one of my bags that I keep, and I keep lots of things. Then what's there? Those are some condoms. This is my little travel massager, I got to pack sex toys for my Eat Pray Love.
Kenrya: Yes, you do.
Erica: Do you know what sex toy I am going to pack?
Kenrya: Bitch, what?
Erica: This one. So it's kind of the same concept as the rubber ducky except is not as loud. I don't think I charged it, so fuck.
Kenrya: That's okay, we don't need to hear. Well, we hear it now.
Erica: It's a cute little nipple and clit stimulator. It provides vibration. It provides suction. If you don't want a little rubber ducky around your house and you just need something that looks a little more adult, this is your friend. I used this the other night, and I was pissed because I had to change my sheets afterwards.
Kenrya: Why? Oh. Is that right? Well, done little pretty thing.
Erica: Y'all need this because this little puppy is fantastic. It's waterproof again. This little baby is going on my trip with, on my Eat Pray Love trip with me.
Kenrya: It's a decent size. That's silicone too, right?
Erica: Yeah. It's silicone, so water-based lubes, liquid only. See how big. I feel like I'm ...
Kenrya: On IG doing a makeup tutorial.
Erica: This is a color, this is a color. So this is a little nipple and clit stimulator, of course again.
Kenrya: I bet you could find some other places to use that too.
Erica: Oh, fuck, yes. Like a gooch?
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: So back up. Remember. You gooch! Yeah. Gooch. I'm always a fan of using a vibration when sucking dick. Like if you cup in the balls and you got a little vibrator, nothing too-
Kenrya: Yeah. Some people like it. Some people don't. But it's worth a shot. Yeah.
Erica: It can be too much because I have a little cock ring, a vibrating cock ring. There he is. There he is. So I have a vibrating cock ring. Most guys say they don't like them because it's too distracting.
Kenrya: Yeah. Well, I take it.
Erica: So I actually like the idea of this.
Kenrya: Yeah, some say it's distracting.
Erica: Just a little vibration because you can just go away, but ... I like the idea of this because you can just add a little bit and take it away a little bit, take it away. The equivalent of sprinkling some salt on it. Whereas this ...
Erica: Okay, y'all. That wraps up this week's episode of The Turn On. This is Erica and Killa.
Kenrya: Yes. Making it clap.
Erica: Making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us Kenrya and Erica and edited by Ballistic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit Subscribe right now on your favorite podcast app and at Youtube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast and you can find links to books, transcripts, guests info, what's turning us on and other fun stuff at the TurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: Don't forget to email us at the TurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex and related questions.
Erica: You can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to queer Black polyamorous feminist and Parenting Is Political podcast co-host Jasmine Banks about the role of kink in healing sexual trauma, the beauty of going through a second adolescence with partners you trust, teaching our kids about sex and gender and pleasure and joy, and how masturbating first thing in the morning can save lives.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today, we're talking to Jasmine Banks, pronouns she and her. Jasmine is a queer Black feminist living her best polyamorous life in Arkansas. She's a nonprofit executive director and one-half of the parenting podcast Parenting is Political. Yes, it is. Hey, Jasmine.
Jasmine Banks: Hi. What up? How is everyone doing?
Erica: We are great.
Kenrya: Thank you for coming on.
Jasmine Banks: You're most welcome. It's my pleasure.
Kenrya: Now, it's time for us to get in your business.
Erica: I know. So, like Kenrya said, we're just going to jump straight into your junk. When do you first remember masturbating?
Jasmine Banks: Oh, when I was somewhere around six or eight. There was a Teddy Ruxpin with a very hard plastic nose, and I would just grind the shit out of his face.
Erica: Our parents thought they were doing something sweet, buying us these big-ass stuffed animals, and you're like, "No, you just bought me a boo."
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, yeah. It was definitely interchangeable between Teddy Ruxpin, or I had these Care Bears that also had the hard plastic nose. They don't do stuffed animals like they did. Right now, my kids, they have embroidered stuff, and it's different material, but it's a hard-ass plastic nose-
Erica: Yes, I remember.
Jasmine Banks: ... and really firm stuffing.
Erica: Because if you get hit in the face with it, like if your cousin likes swinging the legs and knocking on your face, you can lose something.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, yeah, and I remember getting into a fight and throwing those stuffed animals and hitting my grandma's glass coffee table, trying to hit my cousin Shaniqua, and it landed face forward. So, the nose clinked on the glass, and she got her flyswatter, but yeah, it was firm, a substantial stuffed animal, and I took full advantage of it.
Erica: So, was that your preferred technique or did you have a different preferred technique as a baby Jasmine?
Jasmine Banks: It was pillows, stuffed animals. That was it.
Kenrya: That's a common thing what we’re doing.
Jasmine Banks: It was like Pretty Ricky “Grind On Me.”
Jasmine Banks: And Teddy Ruxpin was marketed as an educational toy, but they didn't know what kind of lengths this Virgo child would take that education to.
Erica: You're like, "Oh, we're going to learn a whole lot."
Jasmine Banks: Yes, I am nothing if not resourceful, like I put a little ABC tape in his belly, and he would talk to me, and then I would reduce, reuse, repurpose, recycle. You know?
Jasmine Banks: We'd learn together and then...
Erica: We learned together.
Kenrya: Learned together.
Jasmine Banks: Teddy Ruxpin after dark on my futon bed.
Kenrya: I love it.
Erica: I love it.
Jasmine Banks: My mom was like, "You're so attached to him. You'd never wanted to get rid of him when you were younger."
Erica: Like, yeah, boo. It's under this link like, "Boo."
Kenrya: Here's why. So, how old were you when you had your first kiss?
Jasmine Banks: I was nine, and it was with my godbrother. I was raised with two really incredible godmothers, Lee and Orlanda, and they were Black lesbians that lived up the street, and they had... Lee had a son from a prior marriage and that was Brandon, and we spent time together all the time, and we just wanted to see what it was like to kiss, and I remember kissing in the front room, and the parents had gone to something because back then, they were like, "We're just going to leave the babies. Just don't answer the door or the phone."
Erica: Yeah, all the time.
Jasmine Banks: All the time, and there was some uncle that was somewhere in the room not even paying attention to us.
Erica: Oh my God.
Kenrya: That's our house.
Erica: You've completely described my home, like our situation.
Jasmine Banks: He was watching BET or Matlock or something random. I just remember. In the room, it was one of those touch lamps that have three different levels, and then Lee and Orlanda's room was to the left, and there was beads on the door, and we were right by the front door, and one of those black midnight... I can't remember exactly the name, but it was one of those cone incense was just burning and the kiss-
Kenrya: You can't see.
Jasmine Banks: I really thought I was in love with Brandon.
Erica: And now, you look at him like, "Ooh," family.
Kenrya: Proximity will do that to you.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, I'm like, "That was my family," but even though I have Black community in my school, the social setting was predominantly white. So, I was already starting to get those message of like, "That's not your real family because it's not biological."
Erica: It was like-
Jasmine Banks: Which I don't even know why white people even be talking like that because they know that it'll be biological, and they still be kissing their cousins and enjoying it. So...
Erica: Oh, well. We have whole dynasties. They have whole dynasties built upon that, but-
Kenrya: Keeping it in the family.
Erica: ... they ain't ready for that conversation. Isn't that what the young people say?
Kenrya: Let me know when we going to talk? So, y'all don't want to hear that.
Erica: Yeah, we ain't ready to talk about it.
Kenrya: But bitch, you just started the conversation. Okay. You just made me feel old.
Erica: How old were you when you had a sense of your gender identity?
Jasmine Banks: I have a very interesting story, and I don't even know if K knows this because I'm not super public about it, but in the spirit of giving y'all the juicy content, I was assigned female at birth, and then about eight or nine, I started having developmental issues, and I lived female at birth. My gender was girl. So, sex, obviously different than gender, but it does definitely inform so much about how you perform gender, about how you come into gender conversations. So, around 12, I had this period. My period started, and it didn't stop, and it didn't stop for six months, and I got really, really sick and anemic, and my mom had to take me to the emergency room.
Jasmine Banks: So, they did an X-ray on my abdomen, and they were like, "Something is not right here." So, they gave me some meds to stop the bleeding, and then I went into emergency surgery, and then whenever I came back from emergency surgery, they said, "On your right ovary, part of it was filled with cysts, and we're going to diagnose you with polycystic ovarian syndrome, and then the other section of your right ovary was actually an internal gonad, and you have hyperandrogenism," and they told me at that time that chromosomally and hormonally, I was more male than female, but my sex designation on my birth certificate didn't change, and I continue to feel like very affirmed as a woman and knowing that hormonally and chromosomally, I am more toward the male end of the spectrum of the sex assignments than the female.
Jasmine Banks: Then for part of my life, I went on hormones to increase my female presentation, like growing breasts and fighting hair and finding different things, and then they told me I would never have children because I was making too much testosterone internally to be able to ever fertilize an egg or be compatible with semen, but I surprised them and have four of them little niggas.
Kenrya: Yeah, you do.
Jasmine Banks: With one ovary.
Erica: I know.
Kenrya: That ovary be working hard.
Erica: God is my witness. We going to have a baby.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, yeah, and it came as quite a surprise to me because I was not trying to get pregnant, and after I had that initial period of menstruation, I never menstruated again, which was a part of being intersex is what it's called, and so yeah, and the only way that I could really menstruate at that point was if I gave myself the hormones because my testosterone level, and all of my androgens are just through the roof, which makes me stronger, and I have more of a sex drive than a lot of hormonally typical assigned female folks, and there's just lots of dynamics that play into it. It's quite interesting.
Erica: Answer this if you'd like, or if not, shut up, bitch. We'll be fine. Are you still on meds? How does that affect now?
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so I tried to go on birth control to level out some of my body dysmorphia that I experienced around the follicle, like PMS menstruation cycle, and because I have so much testosterone, whenever I went on synthetic estrogen, my body... The hormonal response was just to make even more testosterone and then even more estrogen and then even more progesterone, which caused me all types of issues. So, my endocrinologist was like, "Please don't ever try that again."
Erica: Just you.
Jasmine Banks: Like, "You're intersex. Just be intersex," and the only thing I have to do if I want to get pregnant is I have to supplement progesterone, so it lowers my testosterone levels a little bit so that my body doesn't become a war zone for a fetus.
Erica: Yeah, no. Right after surgery, but before I started chemo, I had to do the egg preservation steps, and baby, like-
Jasmine Banks: Them shots.
Erica: I had to chemo any day. Those hormones, bitch. I remember I was in a nail salon crying and cussing a nigga out over nail polish like, "You don't fucking understand." Those hormones would do something to you, so I'm glad you're able to just live without it.
Kenrya: She already a Gemini, so...
Jasmine Banks: And what?
Kenrya: And she's already a Gemini. Look at her looking at me.
Erica: Shut up, bitch. You're bringing up old shit just to—fix your face. I thought we was homies. I thought she was a homie.
Jasmine Banks: My wife's a Gemini.
Erica: God bless you.
Erica: You know how to love a complex creature.
Jasmine Banks: My oldest daughter is also Gemini.
Erica: That was training.
Kenrya: Is she?
Jasmine Banks: Yeah.
Kenrya: Oh. I'm surrounded. Between Erica and my daughter, they just here. My daddy's a Gemini.
Jasmine Banks: You got to love them.
Kenrya: I do.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Ding, ding, ding. Ding, ding, ding.
Kenrya: They are lovable. They just got a lot going on.
Erica: We have a lot of angst in our spirits.
Jasmine Banks: They just need us in their life.
Kenrya: That's true. So, how old were you when you first started experimenting sexually with other people?
Jasmine Banks: Nine. No. Was it nine? No, 13.
Erica: I need the story behind it because your face was just... I need to know what made that happen to your face.
Jasmine Banks: Well, her name was Sarah, and she lived in Tulsa, another neighbor, and we were really good friends, spent all summer together. I think we went to different schools, but we definitely had a lot of summertime interaction, and we were the only kids. Well, there were only three families that had children on our street. So, I would spend the night at her house. Her father had these magazines stacked up in their playroom where we would play with the Barbies. It was like right whenever Skipper's little sister came on the scene in Barbie, and you could squeeze her belly, and she'd pee in the potty.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so we got this set up. I'm very specific. I be like archiving my life. So, I have journals detailing this-
Jasmine Banks: .... pretty well. Yeah.
Erica: This is a Virgo.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah. So, Sarah and I are in his hunting room, which has this little play section, and all of these magazines just has sports magazines and on the tops of all of them, it's just about deer and bird hunting and fishing, and he was an outdoorsman, and at one point, we were trying to move the magazines to create a mansion or neighborhood for our Barbies, and the magazine stack slid, and underneath it was Drew Barrymore's Playboy Edition, and I was like, "What is this?"
Erica: Now, we bout to play.
Jasmine Banks: So, I unzip my Care Bear onesie and shove the magazine in there, and we run to her room, and we looked at Drew Barrymore's butterfly tattoos and her playboy centerfold, and that led to lots of experimentation and touching and dry humping and grinding, and Sarah was the first person that I had sexual contact with. Consensual sexual contact with, I think is important to delineate.
Kenrya: Absolutely. Well, actually, the next question is, can you tell us about your first time having partnered sex? So, I don't know if y'all actually ended up having what you would term sex or if that would be another situation.
Jasmine Banks: I mean, there was digital stimulation. There was oral stimulation. There was climax. I would call it-
Kenrya: Yeah, sounds like sex to me.
Jasmine Banks: ... partner sex. Yeah. We were like 12, 13, somewhere in that range, and then we became girlfriends. I don't think we called each other girlfriends, but that's what we were, and I lived there for two and a half years, and we had a regular sexual relationship, and my mom would be like, "Yeah, you could have a sleepover. Just no boys allowed," and I was all, “Bet.”
Jasmine Banks: “Bet. No boys allowed.”
Erica: Like, "No problem." That ain't no problem. That ain't no problem.
Jasmine Banks: When she would come over to my house for a sleepover, I had one of those attic rooms that had been turned into a room, so it had the stairs going up, and it had an attic fan, but it was a whole door situation, and I was like, "Let's turn up Usher really loud, and you just lay on your back," and just dry hump for hours.
Erica: Look, I call him our good friend. I call them our good friend dry humping because once we started having sex, we left dry humping in the past, but-
Kenrya: ... dry humping can be a very useful thing.
Jasmine Banks: Well, in the queer community, it's not separate than penetrative sexual expression and practice. It's actually called tribbing. So, it's useful in the toolbox of sexuality because not everybody's genitals are the same, and most people think of intercourse as P and V penetration, and there's just—sex is so expansive, and sex doesn't require penetration or climax for it to be sex. So, I think if we framed it that way socially, a lot of us would be more honest about how young we were actually having sex.
Erica: So, what about an orgasm? When did you first have an orgasm with a partner?
Jasmine Banks: With Sarah, yeah. Our parents were either just negligent or super chill. I guess it depends on like-
Erica: Depending on the director of the movie.
Jasmine Banks: Right. It depends on if my PTSD is triggered, if I frame it as how I frame the story, but they were cool with me and Sarah taking showers together, and they're like, "Oh, they're just friends." I mean, my mom wasn't naïve because my mom, I came out to her when I was eight. I was like, "I think I'm gay," and she's like, "Okay, girl. Eat your food."
Erica: “What's for dinner?”
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so we were allowed to do all sorts of things even though my mom had drag queens as friends and folks in that period of time that identified as transsexuals and folks that were just gay men. My mom had a lot of really good friends who were impacted by HIV/AIDS. So, she was having conversations with me about sex and sexual identity very, very early on, and I knew about masturbation as one of the first... She framed it as like, "If you don't know how to please yourself, can't nobody else please you, so you better start practicing, Jasmine, and know what feels good to you," which is really interesting in juxtaposition with some of her other parenting practices, but suffice to say, I think she probably knew what was going on and was laissez-faire about it, whereas Sarah's parents were like country-ass white people who were like, "They're just friends taking showers together."
Jasmine Banks: Anyway, so my first orgasm was in the shower with a removable shower head with Sarah. We figured out how to turn it on the high-pressure vibration mode, and I just held it at her, and it worked.
Erica: I still haven't done the shower thing. We-
Kenrya: Yeah, we were talking to somebody else doing a, "This is your sex life," and she was saying that that's one of her tools, and we were both like, "We never do that."
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it became an issue for my mom whenever I used it as a young person because she'd be like, "Other people have to use that to shower, little nasty girl," but Sarah was the first person that I realized that I could use that medium to achieve climax, but what I didn't realize is when you have that really intense experience for the first time and you're not prepared for it, your legs start shaking and you get weak and in a slippery bathtub is probably not where you want that to happen.
Kenrya: Poor baby.
Jasmine Banks: So, I'm standing in the back and pushing myself back onto the tiles so that she can do what she needs to do with the shower head, and I climax, and my legs fall out from under me, and I just... like strike me and Sarah in the shower, but I don't think any of us have unclumsy sexual experiences no matter what age.
Erica: None of us.
Kenrya: Makes it fun.
Erica: Yeah, when you're older, it makes it a little more dangerous because those body parts aren't as rubbery as they were when you were younger.
Jasmine Banks: That's so funny. Yes, that's true. That's very true.
Kenrya: So, what three words would you use to describe sex in your teens?
Jasmine Banks: It was confusing. It was painful. Gosh. I feel like I'm such a buzz kill now in this part of the interview.
Jasmine Banks: And it was about safety.
Kenrya: Do you want to expound on any of that or do you want to move on to your 20s?
Jasmine Banks: Sure. So, around the time that I moved away from that neighborhood, with Sarah, I moved into a community called The Colony, which is for single mothers who are widowed or divorced who have been homeless because my mom had gone through multiple domestic violence situations, and we lived in domestic violence shelters. So, anyway, we landed in this place that was my most stable home, and it was in very much influenced and proselytized by the churches that were in that area. So, as a part of going to school with a white majority, junior high and high school, and being a part of this community that was preyed upon of like, "Oh, you're a widow and you're a single mom, and you should come to this event," I started going to youth group.
Jasmine Banks: So, I went from having this really fringe radical Black, queer, Native experience as a young person into this very white cisgender heterosexual Christian patriarchal frame, and there was a lot of social motivation for me to not identify as Black, but to identify as mixed, for me to ask Jesus to be my Lord and Savior and get rid of all of the sinful things that, obviously, because she was a single mother, she had... my mom had thrust upon me. So, I went through a period of really rejecting all the things that my mom taught me around sex and positivity in the best way that she could because she felt like she wasn't empowered and adopted a lot of the True Love Waits movement, which was Joshua Harris and a part of the white evangelical church.
Jasmine Banks: So, there's purity balls and there's like throwing away your secular music and don't be a sexual temptress, and then that really required me pressing down my identity as a queer person, and at that point, I identified as a bi person. So, I confessed those evil sins to my youth pastor and all of my other student leaders, and I made a commitment to be celibate, and I threw away any kind of idea around non-monogamy, and I was on the straight and narrow, and during a religious trip to the Cherokee Nations, family camp revival, that was happening in my senior year, I met a white man who was part of a worship group who had come to the Cherokee nation to do a mission trip over spring break, and he ended up being... I was 18, and he ended up being the first person I married.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so I spent the last part of my teenage years with him, and the safety layer of that is that when you're told at, like my mom is an unenrolled Cherokee, which means that she's not actually allowed to claim Cherokee citizenship even though her father's mother is on the Dawes Rolls. We're currently in the process of applying for citizenship so people can stop telling me that I'm not Cherokee because I can't handle it. So, when you're not Black enough, you're not Cherokee enough, you're not straight enough, you're not queer enough, you're the single mom, you're homeless, really, you look for safety, and anti-Blackness in the form of cishet patriarchal society, particularly of the white Christian persuasion, offers a lot of faux safety.
Jasmine Banks: But what you trade for your safety is compliance and shedding your identity. So, I did that in my teen years, my junior high and teen years, in order to feel some stability and normalcy. The short version of the end of that story is it didn't fucking work.
Kenrya: Okay, good. So, what three words would you use to describe sex in your 20s?
Jasmine Banks: Sex in my early 20s was unfulfilling, was about power, and was just about reproduction and getting my babies.
Kenrya: You want to dive into any of that?
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so, by the time I was 20, I had married this white man from an upper-class family and a very Southern Baptist background, and I was trying my best despite all of my feminists and Black feminists and radical ideology and proclivities to be the good Christian wife, and we were in ministry together in church ministry around worship, and then I did children's ministry. So, I didn't really have a very fulfilling sexual life because he was not able to come to a space with partnered sex that was liberatory and open because of how his Southern Baptist upbringing had really caused so much damage around sexual identity, and then on top of that, I didn't know that he was an abuser, and that it was an underground situation.
Jasmine Banks: So, sex then just became about like, "How do I negotiate power with him? How do I have children because I know I want to have children, if I'm going to have children?" Because I'd already had one by accident, which was Zara, and then I knew I wanted her to have siblings, but the writing was clearly on the wall that we were not going to be together, and I didn't, and I hadn't yet discovered that he was a pathological sexual predator. So, yeah, it was just more about, like let's just figure out how to survive in this marriage and get my needs met. By the time Zara was born, I was still in undergrad, and he had tried to pressure me to not keep the baby, or if I kept the baby to drop out of school, and I just knew sort of intuitively that I needed to push through school, and I was like, "No, you drop out, and I will stay," and then I had a lot of non-sexual deeply intimate same-sex relationships through my 20s where there was cuddling and erotic connection, but there was never intercourse.
Jasmine Banks: So, I didn't feel sexually deprived, but I was coming to terms with the fact that I either need to have an open marriage, or I need to admit that I'm more queer than what I can stand, and also I'm just not a good Christian wife, but by the time I was 20... Yeah, 25 was the first time I discovered that he was a sexual predator and had been assaulting women and hiding it from me, and he went to sex rehab. So, then sex just became like, "What the fuck?" It was good that my mom taught me to masturbate because I did a lot of that and a lot of non-partnered sex. Am I so bumming y'all out?
Erica: No. Not at all.
Kenrya: Not at all.
Erica: I was just thinking like, "Damn, this is interesting as hell," and the fact that... I mean, I hate that super positivity where it's like, "Man, you've been through so much," and you're still so positive. I hate that, but at the same time, you understand where that's a simple way of summing up how I'm feeling right now like, "Goddamn." These experiences have made you into just an interesting little layered person that I am like, "How much time we got here? Because I want to go back to... " It's amazing how all these experiences have just built up to make you who you are, and I think it's dope as fuck.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so the end of my 20s was... As far as like relationally, I was working on confronting that my children who I found out were sexual assault survivors by the hands of their biological father and fighting for their right and navigating my own. When you're in intimate violent situations, sex is also a component of how the abuser brings you back and controls you or creates shame narratives. So, I was working through all of that, but by the time the end of my mid-20s rolled around, I was able to have a community to really help me emancipate myself from that chaos, and then I was able to start doing sexuality on my terms that was absence of the constraints of a predatory abusive connection.
Jasmine Banks: So, the end of my 20s was a really, really fun time of catching up on all the things my True Love Waits period of life had kept me from experiencing.
Kenrya: I just think about the ways that sex was used as a weapon within my marriage all the time and how overwhelming that is and how it contributes to my PTSD and how it stands in the way of... It doesn't have to, but it threatens to jump in the way of having healthy relationships after the fact and all that it takes to do that and loving the fact that you've been able to do that and create a life with Mo and y'all's kids, and it's just-
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, Mo and my other partners who have done a tremendous amount of dharma and labor around helping me transform, and there was a pretty good year where when Mo and I would have intercourse, particularly penetrative intercourse, where if I climaxed, I would spend the next hour in a ball having a panic attack. So, it really required having a gentle partner who could hold me and not personalize whenever I had that dissociative experience around sex and body, and we don't often talk about the ways in which those of us who have survived childhood sexual assault become enmeshed or entangled with folks who are predatory with their sexual choices and behaviors because they target us, not because we find them, but because they target us, and then that dynamic plays out, which is a part of that intergenerational work we have to do around our sex and our sexual identities and expression, but yeah.
Jasmine Banks: I think that oftentimes when we're talking about the salacious juicy parts of sex that we like to cut away how trauma has played a part of that or how struggle has played a part of that because we've been socialized to want these very linear narratives and themes like, "Oh, yeah, like all of my sex is really bomb," and people are like, "You have BDSM. You're BDSM. You're a kink practitioner. That must be so... " People get excited about it, and it's arousing, and then I say things like, "Yes, and actually, I am a kink practitioner because it has been a vehicle for healing the sexual assault and trauma," and they're like, "Awww man. You ruined it. It's not so sexy anymore."
Kenrya: But it’s fucking life.
Jasmine Banks: But it is, like what is more sexy than consent practices and negotiation of desire and openness that helps to heal wounded places in us and helps us access who we have been all along that violence and trauma kept us from being able to live in that truth? That's sexy as fuck.
Jasmine Banks: Y'all both said, "Mm."
Erica: I've always been a sexual person. Someone told me like, "You're the type of person that just gives that off," and for that reason, I've always been a sexual person. I give it off. I receive it, all of that, but doing this show has taken it to another level that has combined my love for fucking and a good orgasm and pleasure, with also just recognizing how it is freedom and a path to liberation. So, the more I hear from people like you and the more I learn, I am just taking it all in because it's amazing that... Everyone says like, "Do what you love. You never have to work a day."
Kenrya: Yeah, that's bullshit, but okay.
Erica: Yeah, but I feel like I am finally at a point where it's like all of these things that I enjoy are coming together, and not only do I enjoy it, but I see its purpose in the world, and that gets me so fucking horny.
Jasmine Banks: I mean, it's all right. If sex is about a joy and pleasure practice in some of its layers, then it makes so much sense that this is working for you and that this is hitting at a core part of who you are that is deeply linked with feelings of liberation because those of us whose histories emerged from enslavement and settler domination have not had the freedoms too. So, hoe culture, you being ratchet with your sexuality in the face of stereotypes like the Jezebel and Sapphire and the Mammy is... It's like that's powerful work, and it's political work. So, I definitely appreciate where this sits for you in the constellation of your life.
Jasmine Banks: As a polyamorous person I feel in the same way that a person who's just really guided me in my critical polyamory, which is Kim TallBear, she talks about in a podcast she recently did around how sex really needs to be taken off of the shelf, like it needs to stop being commodified. It's not like some special ornate thing. What makes it special is the meaning we make of it in the moment, but as far as a global frame, like it's not unique. It's no different than me choosing to cuddle with someone as intimacy because I can fuck someone and not feel an intimate connection with them and not feel anything. It can be exchange or extraction, or yeah, an extractive relationship, and the church has done a really good job in particular of attaching so much meaning around morality and ethics to sex and what we do to our body and that was just another way, another vehicle for controlling and criminalizing the Black body that when we choose to be like, "Yeah, I have a platonic friend that sometimes I let eat me out," and we're still platonic friends, and we high-five and just kick it.
Jasmine Banks: That is a powerful thing in the face of a nation that says, "In order to be a good citizen, you have to not have sexual intercourse so that you keep everyone healthy, and you only have one partner, and you track your children, and they're registered with the state," and you have a picket fence, right? We know that Black and Indigenous folks have never fit in that lens, and it's intentional because that is a social construct that will always keep us as other because our ancestors and our practices call us to a deeper, more abundant, more generous version of family and sex and expression.
Kenrya: Yes, bitch.
Erica: Yes. Bitch, I'm coming over for conversation and cornbread when the world open back up.
Jasmine Banks: My poor kids are going to be like, "My mom was a Black feminist, and she would show her friends her vulva, and it was normal."
Erica: I always wonder what our kids will remember about... There are certain things about growing up that I remember, and I'm convinced that my son is going to remember this summer as a summer of me sitting on the porch drinking, eating chicken and talking about my body parts.
Kenrya: That is what you did.
Erica: I literally sat on my porch and ordered chicken every three days and talked about sex. So, it's the thing. Now, I'm raising great people.
Jasmine Banks: I think they're going to be great. I think as long as it's normalized, it's like, "I'm sorry that your little white friends have parents that never have sex, but we fuck," and not only do we fuck, but it'll be the middle of their Saturday and be like, "Watch the baby and lock the door. We're going to go have sex, and yes, you're probably going to hear us." I actually just started this other practice when they're like, "We don't want to hear about that all the time," because they're embarrassed of us and the social norms of their peer groups. So, we've been like, "We're going to go have a Bible study."
Erica: Your kids are going to be invited to an actual Bible study, and they're going to freak the fuck out.
Jasmine Banks: They're going to be like, "This is not what it sounds like. Who are we calling ‘Daddy’ during this Bible study? When do we say, 'Yes, Daddy'?" Then the Christians are going to be like, "Do you mean Father God?" And Addison's going to be like, "I don't think so."
Erica: I mean, I heard God say it, but I don't know if that's what they're talking about.
Jasmine Banks: They're going to be so fucked up around religion. I'm going to be like, "I was just being slamming the spirit, okay?" And then Zara's going to be like, "What did that have to do with your butt?"
Erica: And there'll be no answers.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, I actually just got one of our kiddos. They asked that we talked about masturbation very openly, and one of the kiddos was like, "I would some lube and a vibrator," and I was like, "Okay, yeah. Dope. I can get you one that's appropriate for your anatomy and for your age," and then they came back two weeks later like, "I need new batteries." I was like, "What the fuck?"
Erica: That's like keeping it under the pillow. Wait. I do. Let me shut up.
Kenrya: You do that.
Jasmine Banks: Like the Tooth Fairy will give you new batteries for your vibrator and mine.
Erica: But I think it's so important. I buy vibrators as graduation gifts for young girls now because... Well, I've only had an opportunity to buy it for young girls, but let's learn how to pleasure yourself, and this is just a thing that we do, and it doesn't have to be weird or gross or nasty or unless you want it to be. Unless you want it to be.
Jasmine Banks: The other day, the same kid had a really fantastic school trip and said, "Hey," and we talked about consent and all kinds of different, like how we negotiate space because we're a close-knit family, and we also know that privacy is important in how you practice masturbation. They announced, "I'm going to be in the bedroom for an hour, and it's going to be locked because I'm going to masturbate," comes back out, and I inquired, and I said, "Hey, it seemed like that was urgent, like you just made this declaration. What was going on?" The kiddo was like, "I had a really good day, and I just wanted to feel even better," and I was like, "I am done. Write papers on me. I am in the critical canon of teaching your child sexuality."
Erica: I love it.
Kenrya: Ooh, but it's interesting.
Erica: So, did a ribbon and a star dropp from the sky and get pinned to your shirt?
Jasmine Banks: Beyoncé came down and said, "I am so proud of you."
Kenrya: That was good.
Erica: I love it. That was good. You go, sister.
Jasmine Banks: She said, "I love you like you from Houston."
Kenrya: It was actually really good. Yeah, but the reality is, and I wonder if how much you do influence other parents, like I know for me, the first time that I had a conversation with my daughter about gender identity was off of something that you wrote online about how we need to talk to our kids about it. I think I've been having conversations with her about consent since she was very young in all of the ways, right? Not just framing it around sex, but when we go to the doctor's office, she has to give consent for them to be able to look at her body. For white people touching her hair, she has to give consent on whether or not she wants... because that was a whole thing.
Jasmine Banks: But she doesn't have to ask if she stabs them, like if she pulls out her shank-
Erica: No, she does not. She can do whatever the fuck she wants.
Jasmine Banks: They touch her hair.
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:42:36] shank. Yeah, but we hadn't had any conversations about that. So, we did, and I asked her, "Who do you feel like?" She was like, "Well, what do you mean?" We had conversation. She's like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, no." She's like, "I'm a girl." I was like, "Okay, cool. I just want to check to make sure that I am living right and making sure that I'm taking care of you and providing the safety and the support that you need." So, I hope that you know that as you share your life with your kids and the way that you are open about sexuality and gender and sex with them that other folks and in your podcast, that other folks are absorbing that and learning from that.
Jasmine Banks: Yes, yes. So, we get messages all the time from Parenting is Political podcast listeners about like, "You're telling me to teach my child this? I didn't even know it about myself." So, we're doing this multi-generational transformation work, and I don't mean to say that we're intentionally, like it's planned and it's targeted, but I think that for me, when it came to... A lot of folks make meaning of what I share online and how I live my life so openly, and they frame it as though I'm attention-seeking, or I'm always looking for drama, or I'm trying to be some online celebrity, but I had to come to this place of reckoning around the accesses that I, like access points in my life, intersections in my life, and I'm light-skinned by I don't know what grace.
Jasmine Banks: I was the first-generation person to graduate from junior high or high school and neither of my parents have secondary or post-secondary education. I just have all these opportunities, and I'm sure a level of that is definitely colorism, and the level of that is also definitely having proximity to white family members, but when I thought about who I wanted to be in my life work around Black liberation, I knew that I had to make the choice to not be underground because those privileges that I had and the way that colorism is so fucked up, I could speak to audiences and hold and honor Blackness and still tell my story where some of my dark-skinned siblings can't do that, right? Does that make sense?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jasmine Banks: So, I chose to be really intentional and measured. I'm not as much as I appear to be. I don't just go on the internet and vomit everywhere and just be haphazard about things. I am often very strategic about what I do and what I don't share and how I share it, but sharing and telling your story has been the only way that I have healed and transformed and found deeper joy and deeper liberations because someone else told their story, and every time I look around, I don't see people telling my story, and I believe that Audre Lorde taught us that, right? If you don't see yourself in books that have been written, you have to write one. So, I look at my social media engagement and the stories that I tell in person and through digital mediums in that way, and I have written a book, but it's not published, but it's written.
Jasmine Banks: But yeah, like I hope that someone... I was interviewing George Johnson from “All Boys Aren't Blue,” and they were saying the same thing. They were saying, "I never saw a story this about myself, so I wrote it," and George also has the same kind of social media that I have where they're really reflective, and they really share these things that most people would hold with shame, and I don't like Eminem for various reasons, but I love his rap tactics that he starts playing the dozens on himself before whoever's in the rap battle can, right? He's like, "Yeah, I'm white. Yeah, I'm from the trailer. Yeah, I can't fuck. Yeah, I'm skinny," right? I think there's some power in that, like what does it call when you take someone's gun away from them, right?
Jasmine Banks: When you take their ammo away from them, ammunition, and then you take back power by naming those things about you. So, yeah, I mean, it's been a defense strategy, it's been an offensive strategy, and it's been a strategy that I hope invites deeper community and conversation. I'm not trying to say I'm right because I've grown so much. I'm not the most expert on whatever critical analysis of X, Y, and Z, but I do practice every single day to be less wrong about the things that I think.
Kenrya: That's all you can fucking ask for, right?
Jasmine Banks: Mm-hmm (affirmative), and I'm a good lay.
Erica: Hey. Another gold star.
Kenrya: Which leads me to ask you what three words describe sex in your 30s.
Jasmine Banks: Sex in my 30s. What I just do with sex in my 30s is a hard question. It has been juicy and restorative. Man, you said three words?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, and playful.
Kenrya: Yes, okay.
Erica: Fantastic because that sounds amazing, and I was about to say lit, L-I-T. Lit. That's what it says.
Jasmine Banks: Yes. It has been lit. So, I’m married to Mo. It is a love marriage, but it also was a tactical marriage because we live in Arkansas and Mo is nonbinary and queer, and I'm queer, and we need some state protections in order to function in this community, especially because our daughter is trans and so it makes it even more complicated. So, Mo has been such a fun partner to experience a second adolescence with. So, queer people often don't have the room in our younger years, develop psychosocial development years to really unpack and experiment and play. There's so much social pressure about staying closeted or having shame or all kinds of variables, and I would say the same for Black folks, even Black folks who aren't queer. It's not safe for us often to experiment and go through those developmental milestones that white young people do at their little keg parties and whatever.
Jasmine Banks: So, I've been experiencing second adolescence with Mo, and that's been really, really fun, and then we transitioned into this more secure sex practice. That's less about experimentation and more about us developing our own deep identity. We'd be like, "Okay, so what was something that we tried that wasn't... " Oh, so in kink, there are folks who like to induce vomiting by deep-throating, like extreme deep-throating to the point where it introduces vomiting. So, that was one of the first things that we experimented with around kink because gagging was sexy for me, and we learned very quickly that gagging is nice. When things come up after the gagging, that's a no-go. That's like a-
Jasmine Banks: I'm not kink shaming, but that's something that we experimented with throwing away, and now, we're just practicing holding each other in a really incredible way in our sex play, and then with my other partners, it's just been so good. I have two other women partners that I... Mo’s nonbinary, but I have two other Black women partners that I have sexual experiences with, and I just broke up with my girlfriend because she was garbage, but we did have a really good sex life, but she just needs to get her life together. She's probably listening to this. Get your life together, Megan.
Erica: Oh, shit. Pow-pow.
Jasmine Banks: So, it's great because with each of my partners, I'm not expected to take on any kind of heteronormative role, right? People usually assume because I'm more femme-presenting that I'm the bottom or the person who gets penetrated in my relationship with Mo, but no, I'm Daddy in that relationship, and then I have another sexual relationship where we're both femmes. We're both high femmes, and it's just a completely different level. I have another sexual relationship where it's just all erotica, and it's all text, and I love writing and words and reading, and I just really, really love that medium. So, to have someone that I could have sexting with and then masturbate or not has also been really incredible.
Jasmine Banks: So, it's just very fun. COVID threw a wrench in lots of plans, but I'm learning that during a part of my life, I did some sex work, and I did some cam work as a part of that sex work, and I was like, "Oh, I have these skills. They're coming back. Okay."
Erica: It's like riding a bike.
Jasmine Banks: You ain't going to keep me down, COVID. So, that has been really fun, and then also with COVID, like distance play toys that have Bluetooth or function over, those have also been very helpful.
Erica: Tell us about a sexual experience that you remember fondly.
Jasmine Banks: Because of how I am a dom top in my BDSM life, I really, really, really appreciate bottoms and subs that that need extra care, aftercare. So, I had an experience with a person who was bottoming for me who had never really felt safe to have a climax because she was a squirter. So, part of the care that I was able to provide for her was around clean up and clean up for her and aftercare, and I bought a special mat and tool that helps to protect the bed, but doesn't make it feel like, "Oh, you're a medical case, and this is weird," right? It was seamless as far as the environment and the scene went, and she got to climax, and she ejaculated, and then we got to do this care work afterwards. That was really fulfilling for me.
Jasmine Banks: So, when I show up in BDSM space and get to do aftercare, it gives me this really lovely sexual high around nurturing and aftercare. If you're not familiar with BDSM, that might seem a little weird and confusing, but-
Erica: You know what? Actually, that's one of the things about BDSM that I find beautiful is the intentionality of the aftercare part. So, yeah, if you're not familiar with it, then you probably should be getting a little more familiar with this, so you're not just leaving your partner on the bed underneath the sheet alone. You know?
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, yeah, because subspace can be definitely hard, that rebound. It was with a different person, but another really fun one that I got to do was someone who really, really liked to be shocked, and I didn't realize how much I like to shock people, but I do.
Erica: Learn new shit every day.
Jasmine Banks: My rising is Scorpio, so that's what I thought I must have been channeling.
Kenrya: That makes sense.
Erica: That makes sense.
Jasmine Banks: Like the sting and the pain.
Kenrya: So, we have a pretty good idea of what your sex life looks like now, but on average, how many times do you have some sort of sexual contact in a week?
Jasmine Banks: Gosh. I talked to you about this for another piece that you did. It's had an uptick recently. Before whenever I was traveling and I could see my people in New York with my play partners, then I... That was multiple times a day. Now though, because of COVID, it's probably four or five times a week unless I have someone that comes to visit, or we do a video chat. Then it's a weirdly large number out of the typical norm because it's multiple partners.
Kenrya: Are there, I guess along those lines, certain times of day that you prefer to have sex? Like, "I like to have sex in the morning."
Jasmine Banks: I remember you telling me about that, and I was confused.
Kenrya: Why are you confused?
Jasmine Banks: Because I'm not a morning person, but I did have a sexual partner recently that made me motivated enough to wake up a couple of days out of the week to have morning sex with her. Today, Mo text me in between a meeting and was like, "Hey, do you have time to have sex?" That was really nice and fun. I like midday sex. At this point with homeschooling with COVID and working from home and the white supremacist in chief and everything else, like the race war that we all need to grab our machetes for very soon. I get tired at night. So, now, my sex life has shifted to the daytime, and if we don't get it in on the weekday, it's like our kids don't see us for a couple of hours on the weekends.
Kenrya: Got to make up time. That's why I like morning sex because I'm always really fucking tired by the end of the day, but also morning is not really for me.
Jasmine Banks: Okay. Well, you make the morning-
Erica: It's just first-thing-in-your-day sex.
Jasmine Banks: What does that mean?
Kenrya: Because on the weekends, it's like 10 or 11 o'clock, especially if my daughter is at her dad's.
Jasmine Banks: You get to sleep in until 11 o'clock?
Kenrya: If she's not home, which is only twice a month for 48 hours, but I take advantage of it.
Jasmine Banks: I'll trade that for a couple of my sex sessions. Let me sleep until 10:00, somebody.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, it doesn't happen often, but when it does, I take it, and then if I can roll over and have sex, it don't get too much better than that.
Erica: See? Just logistically, what about your breath?
Kenrya: We just don't breathe in each other's faces. I mean, shit. It's a lot of weight when you have sex that don't involve... on your nose. We're considerate, but I don't care. I want to-
Jasmine Banks: Also, bodies have smells, and it's whatever. You don't need to be so fresh and so clean, clean. Bodies just-
Kenrya: Listen, I wake up juicy. I like-
Erica: I've [crosstalk 00:58:11] now a marinated puss is-
Kenrya: Is a good puss.
Erica: A good puss. It's like baked over. It's been baking overnight like a warm baked potato.
Jasmine Banks: I still sleep with my hands between my thighs. I do. I've done it since I was a child. So, if I lubricate at all and I wake up, I just rub it on Mo's face.
Kenrya: Like, "Hey, good morning."
Jasmine Banks: And then because we're that crunchy queer couple, Mo be like, "It smells like you're about to ovulate." I'm like, "Shut the fuck up. That's not what you say."
Erica: I love it. I love it.
Kenrya: As do I. All right. Let's see. Oh, how long do your sex sessions typically last?
Jasmine Banks: Oh, man, if it's a scene, it can be a couple of hours. If it's just typical vanilla sex, that's usually shorter. That's an hour or less.
Erica: Okay. Where do you usually do it?
Jasmine Banks: Our scenes are usually in our room. If the kids are gone, it's like fair play game. I broke the car window because there was sex happening, and I broke the windshield with my foot because I was pressing on it hard.
Kenrya: I'm sorry. You didn't get hurt, did you?
Erica: So, when you break... Do you just commit at this point, just keep going or did you-
Jasmine: I mean, there ain't shit you can do about it right then, right?
Erica: Okay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Jasmine Banks: What's been done has been done.
Kenrya: Yeah, you didn't get hurt.
Jasmine Banks: Mm-mm (negative). It didn't shatter. It just spidered it.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah.
Jasmine Banks: Now, I got to fix my wife's window.
Kenrya: I mean, that you can have sex.
Erica: Somebody was making it rain. A good hail storm. What's the best part of your sex life right now?
Jasmine Banks: The best part of my sex life harkens back to my history that doesn't feel coercive. It feels very held and free, and just I really love that Mo, the partner that I have most immediate access to, really likes eating my ass. That's so nice. I really love that, and then also because sex is about reciprocity and this third space you create between you. I really like that because Mo is a nonbinary person who's doing a lot of work for themselves around body and sexuality, coming also from Christianity, that I get to be a safe space for practice around experimenting how gender expression and identity intersect with sexual expression and identity. That has been really, really fun, and I love having a nonbinary partner because it never feels like I'm with a set gender or a gender at all.
Jasmine Banks: It's just like this is Mo's version of nonbinary, and we get to make of it what we want. So, if Mo's like, "Hey, can I get a dildo that squirts and can I cum on your face?" I'm like, "Yes."
Jasmine Banks: Let's do that.
Erica: Let's explore.
Jasmine Banks: So, it's great. I hope it's like what the future of sex is for so many of us that even those who are not queer or those who are not trans can figure out blueprints for play and erogenous experience. It's not just about all that boring stuff you see on Pornhub.
Erica: Yes. What's the most frustrating part?
Jasmine Banks: That I can't travel because I have people I need to fuck.
Erica: Fuck you, COVID.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, it gets to the point where I want to protect the herd and then also I need to go to Alabama to see somebody. I'm really, really trying to be a good relative and not travel and go places.
Erica: But it's just those junk has needs.
Jasmine Banks: Well, eight months is a long time to be away from a partner.
Erica: Yeah, for sure. How often do you masturbate?
Jasmine Banks: Every day.
Erica: Every day, yeah, and what's your favorite technique? Do you have one?
Jasmine Banks: I'm a friction kind of person, and it's always my hand. I have all kinds of toys and tools whenever I was active as a Just Jasmine blogger, which is still my blog, still exists. I would get all kinds of different free products, and then I just love sex shops, and I collect things, but I just have never found anything that I enjoy as much as my hands. Also, it might be just about logistics because I always masturbate first thing when I wake up no matter what, and I don't want to get up and walk to my closet and open a bin and figure out what I want. So, maybe it's also that I'm lazy. It's the Taurus in me. It's my Taurus moon.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah, I was married to a Taurus. That's the whole thing. Why every day? What does that do for you to start your day in that way?
Jasmine Banks: Honestly, it might be for everyone else because I'm nicer, less murderous. I feel energized. I'm ready to get up and do things afterwards. It's activating.
Erica: It's a power-up button.
Kenrya: Do you ever have any trouble turning off the day and focusing on bodily pleasure?
Jasmine Banks: Totally, totally. As a person who's survived childhood and adult sexual assault, dissociation is a huge part of how I balance things, and especially dissociating from anything that's about being in my body. So, I've had to create practices and norms where I invite myself to be inside my body, and masturbation has been one of those ways, and then lingerie and anything that's experiential and tactile that I can put on my body also is a meditative practice that calls me into space with myself. So, it's complicated. So, even if I don't have a busy day, that is definitely a learning edge that I have.
Erica: If you could snap your fingers and change one thing, what would you change about your sex life?
Jasmine Banks: I would be able to get people pregnant.
Erica: Babies for everyone.
Jasmine Banks: Wow, that's an interesting question. I don't know if I would really change anything. No. I would. Okay, so I would change how complicated it is to be a relationship anarchist, a person who's poly in my sexual expression in life because it often feels like that heterosexual vanilla couples just get such an easy script to follow, and they don't have these 4,000 fucking conversations with people in order to get some head.
Erica: But here's the thing. Part of the problem is that's what be fucking us up.
Jasmine Banks: That's true.
Erica: That's [crosstalk 01:06:14] us. That's what fucks it up. I think what makes it outside looking in, but I know it's like a, "Fuck. I got to... " But-
Jasmine Banks: Sometimes, I get a little tired. I'm like, "Is there a hand signal where I can just be like please?" I mean, I know we have sign language for it, but just a single-hand gesture like, "Let's do anal, but I don't want to be partners, and I'm not trying to steal your... I'm not trying to do anything nefarious. I just think you might be fun to do anal with.”
Erica: That would be... Okay. You got to come up with a-
Kenrya: Are you making up a...
Erica: I'm doing my Walter Machado.
Jasmine Banks: No. This is the... Anyway.
Erica: We have to have video for now [crosstalk 01:07:14].
Kenrya: We got to start using video.
Jasmine Banks: We're ridiculous. So, are y'all going to come to Parenting is Political to talk about sex and parenting?
Kenrya: Yes, if you'll have us.
Erica: Yeah, yeah.
Jasmine Banks: Cool, cool.
Kenrya: Before we do that, can you tell us what is a sex best practice that you want to share with our listeners?
Jasmine Banks: I have so many.
Kenrya: Give us what you want.
Jasmine Banks: Oh my gosh. This was my Miss America question. All right. So, I would say a best practice that I commit to is understanding that sex is about an experience, not a performance, and in so many ways, it doesn't have to be, "Did I do this good? Did I do this bad? Did you climax? Did you not?" And embracing these binaries, but checking in with people like, "Did you feel listened to? Did you experience pleasure that you could recognize? Did you feel as though you could communicate to me? Did you have fun?" Those things, like normalizing those questions doesn't make it any less sexy, and it actually opens up opportunities of deeper sex play and engagement because then folks feel safe and seen to give more details about what they want. It becomes even more juicy at that point.
Jasmine Banks: I have had partners in the past who when we tried those practices, we're like, "I just feel like we're doing an exit survey, and I don't like that, and it just feels like you're grading me or I'm grading you, and we shouldn't do that." So, normalizing an open communication is just really, really critical because it's that safety and communication that allows us to negotiate boundaries and consent and desire, and those are all foundational to having an enjoyable sexual experience.
Erica: Do you have any must-use tools?
Jasmine Banks: Uberlube is one of my favorites, and I think that folks who... How is it? Well, this is what I'm going to say. Cis women who are not queer definitely need to try an internal dildo. It's a dildo that has a hook or a bulb that you insert into your vaginal canal, and it can vibrate or can't vibrate, but I want cis women masturbating by putting the internal dildo and putting a shit ton of lube and rubbing the dong while literally stimulating and get into it. I think that is a must-have experience. We first introduced that tool to be supportive of some of the habits of Mo's dysphoria or some of the ways that Mo's dysphoria was showing up, but at one point, I was like, "Why is this just for a nonbinary person who needs to see themselves like gender expansive? I'm going to try this," and I masturbated with, and I was like, "Next level. Next level."
Kenrya: Next level?
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, so if you have the anatomy... Language is just so problematic, but say I'm talking to Erica, and I'm assuming you have a vulva, and I'm assuming you like to stroke dick, why not stroke your own while playing with your clitoris?
Erica: Girl, I'm online right now. I'm about to buy my own. Like bitch, I'm literally looking online right now to purchase-
Jasmine Banks: And then the bulb, which is used to secure the person who's wearing the internal dildo acts as a mechanism for you to feel full, and then it vibrates. It also hit your G-spot, and I'm like...
Kenrya: Yeah, we may need you to send us the link when we finish.
Erica: No, I'm looking, and you will approve before I press in. Thanks. Okay. Would you rather give up partner sex or masturbation?
Jasmine Banks: Partner sex, hands down.
Erica: Oh, yes.
Kenrya: [inaudible 01:11:57].
Erica: I'm lazy, but yeah. I like it.
Kenrya: Yeah, you're like, "You mean, they get to do the work? Yeah, I'll stick with partnered sex."
Kenrya: What do you hope that people learn from this walk through your sex life?
Jasmine Banks: I just hope that folks can take away that even those of us who have our bodies and our sexualities and our sexual experiences as sites of extreme trauma and suffering and even shame that we don't have to throw away sexuality and sexual experience and that in community and through embodied healing, we can transform and have different memories and different ways of being in relationship with our bodies and others and the intersections of sexuality and sexual practice. I really hope that comes through, and I also hope that it comes through that you can be a dope-ass parent and caretaker and really like to fuck and really like kink and really do all sorts of expansive things around sex.
Kenrya: Yeah, I think they're going to get that.
Jasmine Banks: I hope so.
Kenrya: Yeah, well done. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Jasmine Banks: Thank you for having me. I hope you're not jealous that Erica's my new best friend.
Kenrya: So, here's the thing.
Erica: Here's the problem. You say that, but then there's a lot of responsibility that comes with this. So, yeah, you're going to be like, "Damn." I mean, yeah. So, is this the one I need to be buying?
Kenrya: Those hormone shots she was getting, I was the one giving her them shits.
Jasmine Banks: Yes, that's a great starter, and you see the ridges? It also can rub your... gets clitoral contact.
Erica: Yeah, they have another one. They have the little bunny, but I feel like I'd freak out with all that stimulation.
Jasmine Banks: Yeah, that, when that has the ridges is nice because it's got an angle that you can bend the shaft part a little bit away and get your hand down enough to give yourself the physical contact around clitoral stimulation. So...
Erica: Dink, dink.
Kenrya: Okay, send it to me.
Erica: Thanks, bestie. Sorry, Kenrya.
Kenrya: It's fine. Where can other people who want to be your bestie find you online?
Jasmine Banks: Well, applications for best friends are closed. I peaked at Erica. So, @ParentingIsPolitical on Instagram is the best place to connect.
Kenrya: And then the website is ParentingIsPolitical.org?
Jasmine Banks: That is correct, and we have all of our podcasts there and email and newsletter and people can subscribe and all that jazz, but people think that just because I be really personal that I want them to follow me on my personal social media, like my Jasmine, Instagram, and every once while, I get the streak of Virgo, I feel bad because I'm not being nice to people. So, I'll let them in, and then three weeks later, my list is cut down again.
Erica: Who the fuck is this? Who's this person? Yeah.
Kenrya: Yeah, so y'all head over to the Parenting is Political accounts and follow her there, and that's it for this week's episode of The Turn On. Thank y'all so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week.
Erica: Peace out.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now, you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app. Then drop us a five-star review, and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email us a screenshot at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two-for-one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations and sex and related questions and follow us on Twitter at @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram at @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.