LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn

CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON
Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon

SHOW NOTES
In Episode 1.5 of The Turn On, we interview Leone Ross, author of "Come Let Us Sing Anyway." We talk inspiration, first times and the world leader we're sure has never, ever been present while a woman was having an orgasm.

Resources:

• Book, "Come Let Us Sing Anyway": IndieBound | Amazon
• Author, Leone Ross: Website | Instagram | Twitter
• Peepal Tree Press
• Dear Writer Girl

The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.

TRANSCRIPT
Kenrya:
Come here. Get off.
 

Kenrya:
Today we're excited to have Leone Ross, the brilliant mind behind Drag. Leone is a Jamaican-British fiction writer, editor, and academic, who writes literary fiction, magic realism, horror, and erotica. Leone is a two time novelist whose short stories have been published widely. Leone's novel, Orange Laughter, was named one of the most influential British novels of the last 25 years. Yo, that's crazy.
 

Leone:
That's ridiculous. Whatever. But thank you!
 

Kenrya:
And your, the 2017 short story collection Come Let Us Sing Anyway, which is where Drag appears, has been described as remarkable, searingly empathetic, outrageously funny, and unforgettable. Yo, that's crazy. A former journalist, Leone is currently a senior lecturer in creative writing at Roehampton University in London, commissioning editor for Fincham Press, and Senior Fellow of the UK Higher Education Academy. Whew, yes. Leone.
 

Leone:
That makes me sound like I'm not going to swear, but it's not true.
 

Kenrya:
Oh, well good, you in the right place.
 

Erica:
We love cursing academics, so, yes.
 

Kenrya:
You got it! So first, we just want to ask, what are your preferred pronouns?
 

Leone:
She and her, that's just fine.
 

Kenrya:
Great, okay. Awesome. Always want to make sure we get it right.
 

Kenrya:
So, we just heard your whole bio, I just read it. It's fantastic. But can you tell us in one sentence what it is that you do?
 

Leone:
I suppose I pay attention to small spaces, and try to recreate them. That's what comes to mind, yeah. I've been doing that since I was a little girl, paying attention to small spaces.
 

Kenrya:
That's what's up. So, where are you from originally? I said earlier you're Jamaican-British-
 

Leone:
Okay, yeah, so you're going to hear a lot of weird accent things going on, and this very irritating thing that I do that when I'm in the company of people who have a different accent from me, I start creeping into it, which is just really embarrassing, so wait for that one.
 

Leone:
But the background is that I was born in England, and when I was six, my mother, who is Jamaican, took me back to Jamaica, and I stayed there until I was about 21, and I did my first degree there, and then I returned to England. So all of my formative years were spent in Jamaica, and if I'm among other Jamaicans, I sound much more Jamaican than I sound now. All Jamaicans tease me that when I lose my temper or have sex, I sound Jamaican, and if I'm speaking formally, I sound British. British people tell me I don't sound British at all, and Americans, Jamaicans say I also sound... no, British people say I sound American, and Americans tell me I don't sound American at all, so who the fuck...
 

Leone:
But that's, my basic background is a lot of mix. I suppose, at its heart, I feel Jamaican more than anything else, but I think that's a formative year thing. You know, wherever you grew up, wherever you went to high school, I think as well, makes a difference. So yeah, that's kind of
 

Kenrya:
Love it.
 

Kenrya:
So, Leone, where are you based now?
 

Leone:
I now live in London, where I have lived for 20... many years. Which is presently imploding and totally screwing up, and Brexit is driving us all crazy, and the Conservative government is driving us possibly just as crazy as Trump is making you guys feel.
 

Kenrya:
I was about to say, we might know a little something about that.
 

Leone:
Yeah, so yeah, exactly, I don't want to assume, but I assume. I assume that, considering you guys like sex, that you don't like Trump, so-
 

Erica:
Not at all.
 

Kenrya:
Yes
 

Erica:
Not at all.
 

Kenrya:
It's the best assumption anybody's made all day.
 

Erica:
Spot on. So-
 

Leone:
Basically that man has never given a woman an orgasm, and that's his problem.
 

Kenrya:
I mean, he's probably had them, but he's never given one.
 

Erica:
Oh my god, no.
 

Leone:
Oh, no, definitely I mean, it takes two minutes to have an orgasm, especially if you're a man, but especially if you're giving it to yourself. But to give a woman an orgasm
 

Erica:
That would require-
 

Leone:
To share in a woman's orgasm requires... many things.
 

Erica:
Yeah, a level of consciousness.
 

Leone:
None of which is like... yes exactly.
 

Erica:
Not at all, not at all.
 

Leone:
I don't believe I'm spending the first five minutes cursing the President of the United States.
 

Kenrya:
I mean, I feel like it's probably how we should open all spaces, so it's fine
 

Erica:
It's like an invocation of fuck this shit.
 

Leone:
The best invocation of all.
 

Erica:
So, Leone, did you always know that you wanted to be a writer? What did you want to be when you grow up?
 

Leone:
Yeah, always. I mean, there was a period in which I wanted to be a vet, a veterinary surgeon, because I really love animals, but that was to accompany the writing. I think I always knew, and I was one of those children who, you'd take me to the beach and I'd sit down and be reading a book, and people would be like, "Look at the waves," I'd be like, "But there are waves in the book, so I don't know why you're bugging me about waves in reality."
 

Kenrya:
Right, and I can picture how they look however I want, right?
 

Leone:
Yes, exactly right, I can make them green, or blue, or purple, or orange, so leave me alone. Having said that, I really like the water and I like the beach.
 

Leone:
But yeah, I was that kind of kid. So I think I always knew that one of the best ways to spend time was to read a book. Then when I began to start writing, I always think I had an impulse to... I wanted to make people feel. I think that was my initial impulse. When I began to work out that I could write things down on a piece of paper and make people laugh, or get upset, or be delighted, or moved... I'm aware that other people did that, because obviously when I was a little kid I just had ambitions to do that, I thought that was a kind of magic. I still do. Like, you know when you write something on page 49 on section 3, paragraph 2, that's intended to make your audience laugh, and then you read it out loud, and wherever you go, and wherever you are in the world, they laugh in that moment... I love that shit. It's like yes! That's what I wanted to do. Laugh at that moment, get aroused at this moment, cry at this moment, yes. Maybe I was just a control freak when I was a kid, but that's what I wanted.
 

Kenrya:
I mean, who isn't.
 

Erica:
Leone, I feel like you are describing my best friend right now.
 

Leone:
Tell me, tell me, was it like that for you as well?
 

Kenrya:
Yeah, I have control issues, but I think more than that, I mean, this sounds sad, but books have always like been just a really great friend. I mean, obviously not as great of a friend as Erica, but-
 

Erica:
I was about to say, I'm a bad bitch, but okay.
 

Kenrya:
Yes, you are a bad bitch, and the books could never compare. But books have been my constant companion. I started reading really young and I was never without one, and now that we have tech where it's just in my phone, I mean it's everything. I spend so much time writing books, and reading books, and they are just a comfort to me. So, yes.
 

Leone:
Yeah, there's no question, and all of the research shows just that actually nothing does things to the brain like reading does. Nothing still. No kind of art form.
 

Kenrya:
That's right.
 

Leone:
No kind of orgasmic experience, even, does exactly what is done to the brain when we read. So, yes. I mean, obviously, we're all fans.
 

Kenrya:
That's what's up.
 

Kenrya:
So, as we were saying up in your bio, you write a lot more than erotica, and in fact, Come Let Us Sing Anyway has stories in lots of different genres. I'm wondering what pushes you to dip into so many different areas with your writing?
 

Leone:
Probably because I read so many different areas. I'm not, and have never been the kind of novelist or reader that dismissed any particular genre. As long as it was well-written within its own context I was fine. I've always wanted to be an accessible human being, not to mention a writer. It wouldn't trouble me if someone read my work and thought, "This is challenging. This makes me think. I'm not quite sure what this means, I need to go check." That's all fine, but if I can't access your basic emotions quite swiftly, I think that I personally haven't succeeded. Genre writing is some of the best writing there is.
 

Leone:
So, I remember once making some weird reference, this is years ago, to an editor that I had. I mentioned something about the word obsidian, and he said some highfalutin academic thing in response to the word. I said, "No I meant the Obsidian Order on Star Trek," and he's like, "what?" He's like, "But you're such and intelligent woman!" I thought, "What does that even mean? That you can't be an intelligent woman, and read Shakespeare, and pay attention to Star Trek?" I mean popular and high culture, whatever that means.
 

Leone:
So, I supposed that's all a way of saying that I'm interested in all ways of moving people. Complex literary fiction, I make an attempt at, and I hope that I can make a metaphor like the next person. I'm interested in complex ideas and features of language, in fact I love that. But I also want to be able to chill your bones. I want to be able to turn you on. I want to be able to surprise you. I want to make you laugh. So, if I manage to do all of those things, great. I wouldn't limit myself to any one genre in order to try to get that kind of emotional response.
 

Kenrya:
I'm wondering, I mean I love that you have never thought to limit yourself in that way, but I'm wondering, I guess as a writer as well, I write quote-unquote serious non-fiction. Did you ever struggle with the decision to add erotica to the mix? Does it-
 

Leone:
No. I mean, the erotic was always there. The irony is that a lot of people in Britain who, the few who know me, of that subset associate me of being the sex writer, which is really funny because it's the smallest amount of the genre I do. I mean as you can see in Come Let Us Sing Anywhere, there are only like three stories, I think, that have any kind of explicit sexual reference. But I remember trying to work this out at one point, laughing, of all people, with my grandmother, about it, who by the way, before she passed, read everything I ever wrote, including the explicit sexuality.
 

Erica:
Love that.
 

Kenrya:
We Stan a supportive granny.
 

Erica:
We love a supportive granny.
 

Leone:
I love her so much for that. It's so totally wonderful. I remember saying to her, "Maybe a little sex goes a long way." I've just become this kind of sex writer when that's not the whole story. I didn't have a problem with it, it just wasn't the whole story. So, she just looks at me, she said, "The thing with you is that not only do you write explicit sexuality, you've also injected your entire work with a sense of sexuality, with the sense of the body." She said, "You do that all the time in ways that I don't even think that you recognize." So she said, "I think people mistake that sense of sensuality and the body, they think sex. So you're not always talking about sex but you're being sexual a lot of the time." This, note, was my grandmother. And I'm like, "Yeah, I can go for that." She's like, "You have intellectual ideas about sex as well as sensory ideas about sex, and language based ideas about sex, and then the sex." So, she's like, "Because you see the world through many lenses but one of them is human sexuality, I think people then get the impression that you're writing more sex than you are," or something like that. That was her view, anyway, and I thought, "Okay. That'll do as a theory. That's fine."
 

Kenrya:
I like it.
 

Erica:
So, let's jump into Drag. I loved the story, absolutely loved it. I'm a reader, but not as much as Kenrya, so this was kind of my first foray into erotic fiction and-
 

Leone:
Oh, how wonderful so you were a virgin?
 

Erica:
Yeah, I was a virgin.
 

Leone:
I took your virginity, that's so cool.
 

Erica:
At 30...bleh, yeah, you took my virginity, and I loved the story, so where did your inspiration for the story come from?
 

Leone:
Thank you.
 

Leone:
I was thinking about this earlier because you also have to remember, I don't know if you've noticed, this is an old story. This is like 18 years old. Where the hell did it come from? I was trying to work it out earlier. It was something to do with... I do remember the first moment I thought about it. I was walking down street and I was, I think as you Americans say, feeling myself.
 

Kenrya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 

Leone:
Felt quite cute that day, and felt very confident in my stride in that moment, and really began to work it, really began to think, "I like this. I like my body today. I like the vibes I'm giving out." Then I began to think just wandering down the street, the phrase, "I feel like a boy," came to me. Now this is not a matter of transsexuality or that complexity and gorgeousness. It was more to do with I'm taking on a stride that might be associated with masculinity because it is so confident, because it is so unquestioning, because it takes itself so much for granted. I remember thinking, "Let me play around with that idea, a woman who's feeling like a boy today." How might a woman who's feeling like a boy today want to be approached sexually? How might ideas, whether or not they're stereotypical or not, how might ideas of masculinity affect the way a man might approach her, sexually?
 

Leone:
Then I began to think, "Oh, I could make this into a story." So, I thought maybe what we can do is come up with an example of three experiences a woman has with one single man who returns to her three times in her entire life, and each one marks a period of development.
 

Leone:
So that was her first period of development. She's young, she's 18 when she meets him. She's walking down the street feeling like a boy, and they have an experience that has to do, hopefully, with ideas of gender and masculinity and femininity. She's young, so she's playing and she's really open to playing around with identity and taking chances. When he meets her the second time, it's different. When he meets her the third time, it's different again. So, that's maybe where the idea came from. That was the genesis.
 

Leone:
A lot of ideas, lot of stories come to me, both in moments and with sentences.
 

Erica:
Wow.
 

Kenrya:
I'm wondering, the genesis really came from you strutting, are there any ways more specifically that you relate to Josephine? Have you found yourself trying on different roles to figure out your place, whether it was sexually or otherwise?
 

Leone:
I think so, but I think my gift, just to backtrack slightly for context, my gift has been a really great sex education from both parents and extended family. It's not that my family doesn't, like any human family, have their own limitations or nervousness about human sexuality, but they certainly nurtured my kind of natural curiosity. It's a kind of family joke that I was so interested in sexuality so young and asked questions so young. Their gift to me was that they answered without any kind of shame, without any kind of guilt.
 

Leone:
I may have to say that again, my computer just did something annoying, sorry.
 

Leone:
Yeah, they answered my questions about sexuality when I was a kid without giving me any kind of shame, without giving me any kind of guilt. So that created a context in which I then, in the process of working out who I was sexually and what I wanted, which I believe, by the way, is a lifetime's job, just like writing, because things change all the time and grow. What I am really grateful for is whatever roles I've played like the protagonist in this story, or not, I haven't felt any shame about it. Pure, straight up curiosity and joy. Which is not to say we don't have issues, we wonder whether we're with the right person. We have certain feelings about our bodies, and so on. It's not that it's without pain or complexity. But sex, as a pure experience, to me, doesn't actually have anything to do with what the body looks like. It doesn't have anything to do with anything but its own gorgeous sense of energy. Do you know what I mean?
 

Kenrya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 

Leone:
It's just something unto itself, and an acceptance and love of sexual energy unto itself has allowed me to play with roles or likes, or dislikes, as they've come up in my life without feeling like I was bad, or nasty, or wrong. Which I love, and I notice a lot of women and men haven't had the same experiences.
 

Kenrya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 

Leone:
I don't know if that makes any sense.
 

Kenrya:
No, it makes total sense. I think it's a gift that they gave you.
 

Leone:
They really did.
 

Kenrya:
So many of us are walking around out here broken in that regard, that we weren't given that space to be able to develop and to find the joy in ourselves, and in our bodies, and who we love, and the ways that we love. It manifests in so many awful ways. In hate, in-
 

Leone:
Yeah, and I mean I've also been blessed because I wouldn't... I mean one has to be careful when you talk about this, to be sensitive and to be compassionate, but I also have been lucky enough not to be the one in three or one in four women who will have some kind of sexual abuse of some type in their lives. So I'm really grateful for that privilege as well. It's not come to me and it could come to me any minute now, let's be real about the way that the world works. So that also hasn't come to compromise my kind of unfettered joy. Jesus, I sound like an academic. It feels good, okay. It feels good and I'm cool with it feeling good, and I'm cool with finding it.
 

Leone:
I'm quite sentimental about sex, actually. Sometimes people don't expect that of me. I remember once having a conversation, my girlfriend's going to kill me, but once having a conversation with a girlfriend of mine, who... You know that numbers question?
 

Kenrya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 

Leone:
What's your number? When you're in your twenties, what's your number? Now, I don't give a fuck about anybody's number. It doesn't make any difference to me. But she wanted to know my number so we sat down and we counted up numbers, and then when we compared numbers, she went, "You can't have such a low number," because she had a higher number than me, right. So, I was like, "Why?" She's like, "But it's you." I was like, "What does that even mean?"
 

Leone:
You're the sex one.But that doesn’t mean i’m fucking everybody.
 

Kenrya:
Right.
 

Leone:
Which means I'm working with what works for me. I said, "Why do you have to bring emotion to this number? Your number is just a number." So then she made me re-count. She was like, "Okay, you're bisexual, so now you have to count the women," cause we were counting men. I was like, "Okay." So I counted the women and I was still lower than her. She's like, "Okay, screw you, let's count non-penetrative sex."
 

Erica:
When did you brush past someone in the grocery store?
 

Leone:
The number went up again with the non-penetrative sex. Exactly.
 

Kenrya:
Shit, I don't even think I can remember all the non-penetrative sex.
 

Leone:
I know, truly, I couldn't remember. I was like, "This is getting ridiculous," right, this is just not necessary. Now having said that, in her defense, she was also joking. It became, of course, a laugh. But just that initial response from her, which was, "But I can't have a higher number than you," made me also think about the complexities of sexuality and how women are expected to behave when they're cool about sex. So therefore you're expected to sleep with lots of people. I mean, do what you want to do, that's my thing. Do you what you genuinely want to do and what feels good.
 

Kenrya:
That's what's up. So I have a question that, people ask me this question all the time and it feels like choosing a baby, but you can do it. Do you have a favorite line in Drag?
 

Leone:
Oh my god, you should've warned me of this before. Do I have a favorite line? I will start looking for the favorite line while we talk about the things that [inaudible 00:20:58]. Crap. Probably. I'm really tempted to just look at page 33 and just say, "A single crumb sits on his neat mustache," but that's only the page...
 

Erica:
Oof, that
 

Kenrya:
And I want to lick it off, yes
 

Leone:
I want to lick it off.
 

Erica:
You do such a great job of building that frenetic, like every single bit in me-
 

Leone:
Everybody likes that, yeah.
 

Erica:
-is about to lose it if I don't do this in that particular part of the story. That was... yeah.
 

Leone:
Yeah. For the listeners, what we're doing is we're referencing a scene in which the male protagonist comes and finds the female protagonist who's having a professional meeting, and whose client arrives, but he's masturbating her under the table. I love that. They're so, I don't know how they do it. I quite like "my hand is frothy." Frothy is a good word.
 

Kenrya:
Frothy is a good, nasty word.
 

Erica:
Yeah.
 

Leone:
Frothy is a good word. But I'll tell you what I really like as well. I know I'm choosing random lines and being irritating, and not obeying you, but the moment I like is when she starts coming and the client doesn't know what she's doing, and of course her lover does know what she's doing, and he's trying to cover it up, but he's also wanting to laugh, and the client's just shocked and thinks that she's having a fit. And the whole restaurant's just kind of erupting and thinking, "Oh my god, oh my god, the woman's having some kind of heart attack."
 

Kenrya:
Right.
 

Leone:
And she's just coming, and I love reading that to people because, whoever the audience is, they're in tears of laughter at this point
 

Kenrya:
Yeah.
 

Leone:
Because it's silly, apart from anything else, which is what I like. But it is supposed to turn you on, so I hope it turns you on.
 

Kenrya:
Oh, yeah.
 

Erica:
No, it's silly, and so... damn sexy. And I think so often, we forget that sex is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, and we have moments where we laugh. So that was a great choice.
 

Kenrya:
So I-
 

Leone:
I think that's one of the things that kind of made me the saddest when people have fed back to me about this particular story, which is that they say to me it's so joyful, and they're not used to that. And I think, "Really? I mean, how are you people fucking?" What? Why-
 

Erica:
You're doing this all wrong.
 

Leone:
I mean there are all kinds of ways to have sex, of course. There are all kinds of ways to have sex, loving, and intense, and dark, and beautiful, and all kinds of things. But joy, it seems to me, if laughter is too far away from the sexual space, I think you need to rethink who you're sleeping with.
 

Kenrya:
Listen, that is a whole word. So y'all about to learn something about me that is very personal.
 

Leone:
Go! Go, go, go.
 

Kenrya:
When I'm having sex with someone who I really care about, I laugh when I come.
 

Erica:
Whoa.
 

Leone:
That's so good.
 

Kenrya:
I do! It's the best. I'm having so much fun. And the first time they're always like, "What? Are you laughing?" And then they start laughing, and they get really excited that they made me so happy.
 

Leone:
Are you sleeping with men?
 

Kenrya:
Yeah.
 

Leone:
I'm just not assuming about anybody's sexuality. Okay, so you're sleeping with men, but sometimes men have to be coaxed into laughter, that it's okay, that we're not laughing at them.
 

Kenrya:
At them.
 

Erica:
Yes I've learned, I find that in my experiences, men take sex as a job, whereas women take sex as a journey.
 

Kenrya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 

Erica:
Women, we just want to enjoy every bit of it, whereas men want to perform and-
 

Kenrya:
They're focusing on that task, yeah.
 

Erica:
Yeah they-
 

Leone:
I think it, isn't that what's expected of them?
 

Erica:
No, I'm sorry, you can go Leone.
 

Leone:
No, I was just saying that it makes sense, there must be a certain kind of masculinity, that's all.
 

Erica:
Yeah, and even when they...
 

Leone:
It's like I have to be good at this so I will now try to be good at it.
 

Erica:
Exactly.
 

Leone:
And I think, "You poor thing, you don't have to be good at it, you just have to be present, which will make it good."
 

Kenrya:
It's hard to be present when you're stuck in your head, thinking about, "Oh, does this feel good to her," all the time.
 

Erica:
Well, Leone, since this is our first episode, and I lost my reading erotic fiction virginity to you, we're going to be talking about first times. So do you have a first time story you'd like to share? And it can be anything, first time I tried yogurt, or first time I tried a woman, whatever.
 

Leone:
You don't want me to tell you about yogurt. I have to think of what I can tell you without my best friend cursing me tomorrow morning about it. First times... Actually okay, no. This will be a story that's a best friends story.
 

Kenrya:
Yay!
 

Leone:
And she will curse me because she says I have this wrong, but this is the way I remember it, whether it's wrong or not. I'm remembering the first time I met my best friend, who I have known since we were 10 years old, so that makes it 40 years this year that we've known each other. This is my memory, this is not hers, so it's fair for me to say before I say it, but she says I'm talking rubbish. This is my memory of us knowing each other.
 

Leone:
We'd been at school with each other for a while and we'd never spoken. And then both of our parents were late to pick us up one day. I was reading a book, I was reading a large book. But slipped inside the large book was some sex book. It wasn't porn but it was something about human sexuality, that I remember. And at one point it became evident to her that I wasn't reading the book that she thought I was reading, and so she realized I was reading this sex book. I mean, it could've been Shere Hite, it could've been some sort of report on how babies were born, I have no idea, but it was something sexual.
 

Leone:
So I remember us both having a giggle about this moment, because I was expecting her to be judgemental but she wasn't at all. And then I remember going into the bathroom, this is not sexual by the way, she's totally straight, but going to the bathroom maybe to wash our hands or whatever we were doing. We use the loo and whatever. And then when we came out, or maybe when we didn't come out, but at some point I said to her, "Tell me something, do you masturbate?" And she said, "Yeah." And I said, "That's cool."
 

Erica:
I'm like, "This is a 10 year old conversation?"
 

Leone:
And we're like 10 or 11, right? And on some level I thought, "This is my tribe." This is someone who is also so comfortable with sexuality that there's no condemnation, there's no judgment, and that was the start of our connection. Again, I'm gonna say this, my best friend would say that this is a total lie but that's how I remember it. And I remember thinking that I could trust her because this was the first time in my memory I'd said to another human being, "Do you masturbate?" And they'd come back with, "Yes." And that was just understood and
 

Erica:
Wow, that's so beautiful.
 

Kenrya:
Wow.
 

Leone:
Apparently
 

Kenrya:
I wonder what her version is.
 

Leone:
You can never tell with these bloody novelists.
 

Leone:
No, she just says it never happened, and I'm a liar. I say she has a bad memory.
 

Kenrya:
I mean, you are a writer, but I feel like you didn't make that up whole cloth.
 

Leone:
I promise, I usually know the things I make up, even if I'm trying to pass them off. I promise you. The best I can do is say to me it is the truth of what happened.
 

Kenrya:
Yes, I like it.
 

Leone:
Put it this way, at some point she and I had a conversation about masturbation. That I know.
 

Erica:
That's so great.
 

Leone:
And she didn't condemn me for it.
 

Kenrya:
Well, I think we're done. This was so fun.
 

Leone:
Okay. Wow.
 

Kenrya:
Right?
 

Leone:
So that's how do it, huh? So how did this work for you guys with the first time? Are you disappointed? Are you, you know, did you have an orgasm? Is the afterglow good for you?
 

Erica:
The afterglow is great. I think you were a really great first guest, because you get our brand of-
 

Erica:
You get us. I feel like I found my tribe in you, in a writer.
 

Leone:
Seriously, this is the tribe. We could meet each other in Ohio tomorrow, and just go to dinner and be absolutely cool. We are sisters.
 

Erica:
Yeah, so this was a great interview.
 

Kenrya:
Yeah it's true. Also, I'm from Ohio, so that's the best place to meet.
 

Leone:
I just said Ohio because I think I read that one of you was from Ohio, so I just slid it in there.
 

Erica:
We're two Midwestern girls that have a love for a good casserole and... and sex.
 

Kenrya:
...and sex.
 

Leone:
We didn't talk about food, oh my gosh, we did talk for ages.
 

Kenrya:
No, this is fantastic. I mean, we really love this story. I've had Brown Sugar, where this originally appeared on my bookshelf, for years. It's literally moved with me maybe six times.
 

Leone:
Wow.
 

Kenrya:
And this has consistently been my favorite story. So for us-
 

Leone:
Wow, that is a huge compliment. Thank you.
 

Kenrya:
It is just fantastic from beginning to end, and I love-
 

Leone:
Indulge me in one last moment, why is it that you like it? What is it that you like?
 

Kenrya:
Sure. So much... cause I am the one, I use erotica to get off, and so much of it honestly becomes super formulaic. You know what's going to happen next. You know that he's going to talk about her pert nipples. You know that she's going to talk about his member. And it's none of that.
 

Leone:
Oh, Jesus. That's why I don't like, you know what, I'm going to tell you a secret, I don't like erotica.
 

Erica:
Girl...
 

Kenrya:
Yeah.
 

Leone:
Because so much of it is so badly written.
 

Erica:
We're learning that.
 

Kenrya:
Yeah. That is honestly the biggest challenge we've encountered so far, is that, I think Erica, you literally just said it-
 

Leone:
Promoting good erotica.
 

Kenrya:
Yeah, she was like, "We overestimated how much great erotica there was out there."
 

Erica:
Because we found such good erotica in the beginning, and so we're like, "Oh! The world is just teeming with this." And...
 

Leone:
No. It's teeming with members and bosoms heaving, and really bad orgasms that are not natural at all and... Oh my god. A lot of it's really, really shit.
 

Kenrya:
Yes, and Drag is not that.
 

Leone:
Thank you.
 

Kenrya:
And I love that it's not bound by... like the fact that she feels like a boy. I think that there are so many folks who have so many hangups and so many biases and all of these things, that that's not something that would even come out in their writing. But for me, I just immediately connected with the role play of it all, and of her trying on all these different things, and that it wasn't restricted by gender identity, and all of the crap that we put on ourselves.
 

Leone:
I just think that erotica, like anything else, like any other so called good writing, has to be writing of ideas. It doesn't, and a lot of erotica's bad because it so easily meanders into cliché and stereotype, and, as you say, what you expect to happen next. I'm actually running a course in erotica, in erotic writing at the end of June because I hate so much erotica and I want to encourage people to write it better.
 

Kenrya:
Yes, that's awesome. Okay.
 

Erica:
So please, as you have students that go through this course and come out of the course, we are always looking for good work.
 

Kenrya:
Right.
 

Erica:
Because... By black writers.
 

Kenrya:
By black writers, about black people.
 

Leone:
Okay, yeah. I'll put it your way. In fact, I'll go and I'll sit down and have a think.
 

Kenrya:
Oh, thank you.
 

Leone:
And not a lot of people are doing it, even less people are doing it well, but I'll go and sit down and do that.
 

Kenrya:
Thank you. That's super helpful.
 

Erica:
And one of the things that I want to know about your story is that it centers the woman. So often so much of the writing is in the guy's mind about how he's pleasing a woman and it was just... Our goal with this, our ideal listener, not to say we don't want all listeners, but our ideal listener is a woman.
 

Kenrya:
Or fem, or anybody really that doesn't identify as a man.
 

Erica:
Thank you, Kenrya.
 

Erica:
And we want to center those type of people. We want to feel, we want to read ourselves and see ourselves reflected in the work. So often we don't. So this was just a great story all around.
 

Leone:
Yes.
 

Kenrya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 

Leone:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you saying so. And just for the record, in case this affected your sound, I now have a cat sitting on my bosom. Purring. So clearly she was a blessing. I don't know how that's going to mess with your recording, but she's clearly blessing your first virgin journey.
 

Erica:
Blessed by the pussy.
 

Kenrya:
I love it, and it always comes back to bosoms, so hey.
 

Leone:
Always comes back to pussy. If you send to the pussy, nothing will ever go wrong.
 

Kenrya:
You're absolutely right.
 

Kenrya:
I feel like we need to put that on a tee shirt.
 

Leone:
Please do.
 

Kenrya:
Absolutely.
 

Leone:
Please do and give me my 10%
 

Kenrya:
Absolutely, got it.
 

Kenrya:
Well, thank you so, so much for joining us.
 

Leone:
You're really welcome. I wish you all the luck in the world with it. You obviously sound like two gorgeous, special, thoughtful, sexy women, and I love that.
 

Kenrya:
Oh, yay, and we love you.
 

Kenrya:
Where can people find you and your work?
 

Leone:
They can, I supposed the easiest thing for American readers would be to look for Come Let Us Sing Anyway on Amazon, you can find it on amazon.com and amazon.co.uk or you can Google my publishers, I think this is important because they're a small indie and they need the support, and actually, I make more money if you buy it from them than Amazon. Fuck Amazon. So their name is Peepal Tree, P-E-E-P-A-L, Peepal Tree, Peepal Tree Press, and they are the biggest Caribbean and Black British publisher. So they need some bigging up, so I would just Google Peepal Tree Press.
 

Kenrya:
Fantastic. And you're on Instagram @leone.ross, and Twitter is @leoneross all together?
 

Leone:
Yep, that's me.
 

Kenrya:
Awesome.
 

Kenrya:
Y'all go follow her. We're gonna drop details to her writing in the show notes for this episode to make it that much easier, so...
 

Leone:
I think the other thing as well, obviously we needn't put this on the recording if you don't want to, but I think this is important for people just if they want help. I run an occasional blog called Dear Writer Girl on my website, which is leoneross.com, just that can be of help to people and it includes someone asking me about how to write erotica really well, and there's quite a long answer on that. So if people are interested in that they're welcome to go find it.
 

Kenrya:
Perfect. Thank you so much for sharing that.
 

Erica:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
 

Leone:
Thank you so much for your time. I'm so glad you asked me to do it.
 

Kenrya:
This was lovely.
 

Kenrya:
This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya, and edited by B'lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. Every five-star review that you post on Apple Podcast between now and July 31st, 2019 will be entered into a raffle to win a copy of one of the books that we read on the show. We need your help! We're giving away five books. You just need to post your review, and then email a screenshot of it to theturnonpodcast@gmail.com to enter. And please take a minute to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, follow us on Twitter @theturnonpod, Instagram @theturnonpodcast, and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other dope shit at the turnonpodcast.com.
 

Kenrya:
Peace.

LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn

CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON
Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon

SHOW NOTES
In Episode 1 of The Turn On, we read "Drag," a story from Leone Ross' "Come Let Us Sing Anyway," then—in honor of our first episode—we spill about some very special first times.

Resources:

• Book, "Come Let Us Sing Anyway": IndieBound | Amazon
• Author, Leone Ross: Website | Instagram | Twitter
• "What What (In the Butt)," by Samwell
• Lube
• Restraints
• Vibrating anal plug

The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.

TRANSCRIPT

Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
 
Erica: Welcome to the first episode of The Turn On, hosted by me, Erica.
 
Kenrya: And me, Kenrya. So thanks for coming. This as Erica said is our very first episode and we are very excited to be here. So on every show of The Turn On, we'll read a piece of black erotica that's designed to turn you on and then we'll talk about it and give you way too much information about ourselves.
 
Erica: Way too much.
 
Kenrya: And then, the following week, we'll come back and we'll talk to someone who's connected to the piece that we read. So it could be the person who wrote it, the person who put together the anthology that it appeared in. But somebody who can teach us a bit of something new about getting it in.
 

Erica: So before we go to far, let's back up and talk about how we got here. First, we both love podcasts.
 
Kenrya: Love them.
 
Erica: We listen to them every single day and we've been wanting to do our own show for years. But you know how you throw out this idea and it never really goes anywhere. We've been saying that for awhile. We even had a meeting about it once. But I think we just got drunk and ended up watching a bunch of old black Christmas movies.
 
Kenrya: That's mostly what we do.

Erica: I know, but a couple of months ago, we decided to get really serious. Mostly because Kenrya decided she needed to tap the button.
 
Kenrya: Lord. Every time you say that, it's like such a Erica-ism.
 
Erica: Tap the button.

Kenrya: I feel like I never even heard anybody else put it that way before. I love it. It's pretty unique.
 
Erica: Tap tap titty tap.
 
Kenrya: Yes. So I was getting ready to masturbate, for those of you who have also never heard tap the button. It takes prep. You got to get all your shit together. If you want porn, you got to get that together. If you... I don't know, what else do people use-
 
Erica: Entering your keyword on your special site.
 
Kenrya: Yes. But so for me, a lot of times--

Erica: Lock the door from the kids.

Kenrya: Listen, bitch. Didn't my kid walk in on you tapping the button? She's never walked in on me. Because I lock my door, bitch.
 
Erica: It was definitely some Children of the Corn shit. And I felt movement in the bedroom, but I have a dog and so I kind of thought it was the dog moving around. And then all of a sudden, I had these eyes on me.
 
Kenrya: I'm sorry. Bitch, I been locking my door since she was three.
 
Erica: Yeah. And she definitely exploited the fact that I'm not used to that.
 
Kenrya: Can't do it, she's sneaky. But so, I was getting ready and one of the ways that I like to get myself together is to read a book. I like erotica. Shit that features black people. But, I really was thinking, you know, I'm kind of tired. Kind of just want to do this and go to sleep. It's a stress reliever, you know what I'm saying-

Erica: Get that good sleep.
 
Kenrya: Helps you relax your muscles, yes. So I want to do it in the dark, which means it's hard to read. I didn't want to go through all of that. And since we like podcasts, I was like it would be really dope if somebody could just read some nasty shit to me. And then I could use that to get there. So I went on the podcast app--
 
Erica: Podcast app.
 
Kenrya: Yeah, on iTunes, and I started searching for erotica. And there really wasn't anything there except for this white lady. And she kept saying, "Cock."
 
Erica: Cocks.
 
Kenrya: Yes. But it was--

Erica: His throbbing cock.
 
Kenrya: Yes.
 
Erica: His member.

Kenrya: And nipples.

Erica: Strawberry red. I'm like, no.
 
Kenrya: Bitch, no. That's not what I want to see.
 
Erica: I like purple, not red.
 
Kenrya: Purple and bulging and like-
 
Erica: Okay.
 
Kenrya: Sorry. I got carried away. So there was none of that. And I was like yo, this is something that should be out here in the world. And we some nasty bitches. We should do this shit.
 
Erica: So we did. So here we are. I love everything about sex. Learning about it, trying new things, talking about it to people and so I'm excited to use this podcast to do that and learn more.
 
Kenrya: And it's really dope because we get to do it together.
 
Erica: Yup yup, ding ding.
 
Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: So Kenrya is my bottom bitch. We met in college about 16 years ago and we have been best fucking friends ever since.
 
Kenrya: Forever.
 
Erica: So we are now going to push past all that bullshit that says we have to either be hos or somebody's mama because I frankly am both.
 
Kenrya: Both. It's like that gif that everybody puts on Twitter. Both.

Erica: Both.
 
Kenrya: Both.
 
Erica: So we're going to push past all that shit and we're going to do that by reading about some sexy shit, learning some sexy shit, and passing it on to you.
 
Kenrya: Yup. The Turn On is a show for black folks who want to get off and we want to open our minds while we do it. It'll show that we can love and we can fuck and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty unless we want it to be.
 
Erica: So for our first episode, we're going to go with a really good story called Drag. It's written by this British novelist, editor, and educator, Leone Ross.
 
Kenrya: And we picked it because it's sexy as fuck.
 
Erica: Sexy.
 
Kenrya: Yeah, it felt like a good place to start. We'll talk about it a bit later so we won't give you too much information but you never really quite know what's going to happen next. I think that's one of the things I like best about it.

Erica: Yes. So get whatever you need to get together to--
 
Kenrya: Do ya prep.
 
Erica: Light your candles, lock your door please.

Kenrya: Listen.
 
Erica: Settle in.
 
Kenrya: Put your headphones on because this ain't safe for work or kids.

Erica: Yeah. But you should know. If you're here by now, you know that. Settle in, relax and let's start the show.
 
Kenrya: Let's get it.
 
Kenrya: Drag, by Leone Ross.
 
Kenrya: Today I feel like a drag queen. Walking down Soho way through the tourists and the catcalls. My crotch is aching under the good jeans and the bad underwear, watching the freaks go by, acres of eyeliner and jangly earrings and crap T-shirts that pass for fashion, walking and making sure my hips sway in calypso circles.
 
Kenrya: Today I feel like a drag queen. The top layer of me is a bouncing and behaving woman. I'm all rounded tits and a belly button so deep you could play strip poker inside it. But underneath that, I feel like a boy. 18 years old, slim hips, shoulders so strong I could carry the world, baby-soft face and mascara eyes. The boy in me lengthens my stride and gives me attitude. He looks out from under my eyelashes. I'm working it. I'm being seen. I'm shimmying.
 
"The only thing I want to drink more than a beer tonight is you."
 
I look up. He's not my type. His head would bang into doorways. We couldn't even dance. I'd be stuck just above his navel. I don't like liquorice-colored men. But today the boy inside me needs a fuck. From anybody. He's leaning against a porn shop. I can see those plastic ribbon thingies that they insist you pass through, like a time machine. No, like a seedy entrance to a boudoir. I think that his face is open, that it reminds me of a child's. He is even yummy, with a second glance. I look at him. Grin.
 
"Going inside?" I say.
 
"No," he laughs.
 
"Come inside with me," I say.
 
We wander around the interior. It's dark and silly and small waves of embarrassed men part before us. They try to pretend that none of us are there. I pick up the worst of the porn, speak loudly, point out cum shots and women dressed as little girls. I even find a puzzled, swollen donkey. We discuss measurements at the tops of our voices, pretending to be serious. Men begin to leave. The proprietor looks indignant. I turn more pages and I laugh in my boy's face and watch our arms, side by side, both bruise-colored. His lips thrust through graceful stubble.

"What's your name?" he says.
 
"Jo," I reply. He looks amused. As if he knows.
 
"Joanna? Josephine?"
 
"Just Jo. Call me Jo," I say.

"I'm Jason," he says. I like the way he says his name. Like it fits him, like he's new. Like he's the only Jason in the world. The proprietor grimaces and rolls his eyes. We are nearly alone in the shop. The last man is trying not to look me in the face as he wiggles past us. He wants to fuck me, but he doesn't want me to see that. Jason moves to let him go by. I love that he does not try to protect me from the lust in the man. He stands next to me, trusting me in my own space, like I'm his equal. Like I'm strong.
 
Back at my flat he lays me across my bed, in between pages of my thesis. I am writing about Black people in British ads, like how there are none. He doesn't care. The head of his dick is swollen and purple red. He is watching me closely. I tighten the muscles in my stomach, flex my shoulders. I want my body to feel like concrete when he touches me. I run my hands along my thighs, pretending the hair there is pepper grains. I'm holding the bunch of roses he bought me in Leicester Square, tight. A thorn sticks through my flesh and I can feel a tiny bead of blood on my palm.
 
Jason crouches over me, pulls the roses away slowly. Then he is ripping them apart and scattering petals, stalks, thorns, across my breasts. "Tell me how you want me to be," he pants.
 
"Fuck me like I'm a boy," I say.
 
He puts a thumb up my cunt, parting the folds. It is a small sword through honey. I twist away, annoyed. "No," I say. My voice is shaking. I want him to understand so bad, but I don't want to talk. "Like you're fucking yourself."
 
He's lying on top of me, his cock rubbing against my tummy. It's wet there. He rubs himself across me, hipbone to hipbone. He's running a bass line through me. I can feel it everywhere. In my wrist, making my mouth reverberate. He licks the blood off my palm, thoughtfully.
 
"That's hardly safe," I say.
 
"So?" he says, and flips me over. My clit's rubbing against the white duvet and I can feel it growing, swelling, tumescent, hard against my belly. He's spitting on his fingers, rubbing them up and down my asshole. His breath is lost in my hair. He pauses against the entrance, like there's a stop sign. Like he needs permission just one more time.
 
"Go on," I say. I've never done this before and it needs to be now. "Go on."
 
He pushes gently. The head slips in. Agony. I twist, trying to accommodate.
 
"Oh fuck," he groans against my ear.
 
I feel like a girl about to be taken. I fight against the femininity. I don't want it, not today. I want the abandonment, the urgency of a boy, but it's no good. I'm afraid. Straining, anxious, I push myself onto my elbows. He's still being tentative. He's halfway in, but my body is groaning, rejecting it. He is sliding into a tube of sandpaper. My whole body is shaking and my head is shaking. I can't be a boy this way. A million pins dance the length of my ass.
 
I hear myself calling for time out. "Jason, let's stop."
 
He ignores me, thrusts a hand underneath us, begins to play with my clit, twisting, insistent, rubbing me in hard circles. I love the weight of him on top of me. I am pinned in a slow-moving dream.
 
"No," I say, but it's working. I can feel my ass melting, widening, moisture seeping out of chocolate walls.
 
"Your name is Jason." He whispers it against my hair. "You're up against the wall. It's Carnival and you're up against a brick wall, and I'm fucking you in the ass. Your cock is rubbing against the wall. You're so hard. We met five minutes ago and I rub the muscles in your arms."
 
He's all the way inside me, a metal bar against my ass cheeks, the heel of his hand grinding into my clit, and nothing hurts anymore. I can hear myself. I'm growling and I can hear the soca in the distance and when I look up I can see shocked grannies, amused revelers. I can see a policeman cocking his head to the side. Are they really doing that? He starts up the street and I can see him, ready to arrest two queer niggers.
 
"I rub the muscles in your arms and now I'm all the way up your ass. Your name is Jason."
 
I have no breasts. My chest is flat. I shift, undulate. I've become a smooth runway that pours from the base of my arched neck, down my shoulder blades, spreads across my hips, pushes my ass up into him. I'm an oil machine, gleaming with afternoon sweat. Jason takes a breath, pulls halfway out, plunges into me, savage, uncompromising. His hand is a blur. I howl. Delicious.
 
Afterwards, he knows how to be. I tell him my full, girl name.
 
Today I feel like an executive. My hair is scraped off my face and the makeup is effortless. Walking into a classy restaurant, the London sun streaming through the French windows, melting the clientele like individual ice cream cakes. I'm in a black suit underneath, the lingerie is apricot. My heels are sensible. Before I leave the office my boss tells me to use everything I've got. He winks. Everything. He thinks he's a feminist, but he is not above pimping me out.
 
Today I feel like an executive. Facts and figures flow from my fingertips. My voice is controlled and assertive. But underneath is so much more. An ambitious 25 year old who lies in the bath and dreams of power. Rubber duck in the bath tells me I should have a flat on the Riviera, a penthouse in New York. Bubbles promise me a walk-in closet of designer clothes, three personal assistants and gleaming, expensive technology. I am a multi-million dollar deal.
 
"Josephine." I love his voice. I look up. He's in a sharp suit, dark. Women's heads swivel, and I think, "Blonde bitches," and hold onto the glass of water tightly. He scoops condensation from the edge and rubs it between his fingers back and forth. I can't stop looking. I remember his hands on me and shiver in the heat.
 
"Long time no see," I say.
 
"So?" he says. Climbs right in next to me.
 
"You can't stay," I say. My thighs are humming. "I have a important client coming." He stays. He introduces himself as my colleague when the client arrives. The client orders tea and discusses cost-effectiveness and the implications of visual versus voiceover, whether we need a celebrity or normal actresses. Tells me there are other ad companies waiting in line. I nod and sound intelligent. Jason puts his hand up my skirt. My knees snap together instinctively. He is cupping me, like I'm a small, precious thing. I can smell myself across the sophisticated room. Pussy mixed with golden marigolds at the windowsill.

He uses one long, insistent finger. Rubs just above my clitoris. I try to edge him nearer the brink of me. Inside I'm an empty roll of wet muscles. I could play him like a flute, if only we were far from here. His finger is still stroking the hair, just the hair. I wonder if the teasing is on purpose, suck in my breath as he hits the mark, just to show off. Back to the top. Then down again. Light circles. I try to slow my breathing.
 
"You see, we think that speaking to women in their own language will knock the socks off the competition," says the client. A single crumb sits on his neat mustache. I want to lick it off. I want to grab his head and push it between my breasts and scream. I want them both to fuck me across the table.

"Perhaps animation," says the client.
 
"Mm-hmm (affirmative)," I say.
 
Jason's finger eases inside me, taking all the daylight in the room with it. I am sitting in a pool of summer. He puts a thumb back on my clit and it jumps like it's Christmas. I push my hips forward. They're doing circles. Tight, wide, urgent. Jason's skin is boiling.
 
"Could you, order some coffee?" I say to the client.
 
He turns and signals for the waitress. Jason pulls his hand out of me and licks his fingers. One, two, three. I hide a groan in my napkin. The client smiles at me, clueless. I smile back. Jason asks him a question. I can't hear him. I am literally deaf. The client leans forward. Jason leans toward him, his fingers back, twiddling me. I sip scalding coffee. Burn my tongue. Put my hand on top of Jason's hand. Press him into me. My eyes are begging.
 
"Harder," I say.
 
"Pardon?" says the client.
 
"It must be hard to deal with established competitors. It must get harder every day. Harder and harder."
 
"Ah," says the client.
 
I want to close my eyes. I can feel my orgasm tickling the base of my spine, but I'm talking and talking and the words are scrabble squares on a board, meaningless, but full of potential. I want to lean back in my chair. Tell them both that one day I will be able to buy them with a flick of my well-manicured fingers. Jason puts his hand on my inner thigh and pushes my legs as wide as they can go. Grasps my panties and pushes them roughly aside. I can hear a rip. He pushes something small and cold up me. I bite my lip and my hand on the table goes into involuntary spasm. He makes me touch myself with the other one. He bites his bottom lip as our entwined fingers touch two tiny balls. They feel as if they should be silver. We stir them around, coaxing juice out of me. My hand is frothy. They tinkle, I'm sure. The client is talking. Jason leans into my shoulder.
 
"Pussy music," he whispers.
 
My hips begin to buck. I'm beyond speech. All I can do is nod and the waves are getting more intense. My breasts are spilling out of my bra, they're so swollen. I'm breathing through my nose and yes, he's giving me what I want. He's rubbing my clit the way I like it, hard and God, so dirty, and the balls are revolving, tinkling, pulling it all out of me. I surrender, lean forward into the tablecloth.
 
"Are you all right?" the man chorus it above me. The client is calling, "Waitress, waitress, she's having a fit." Everybody around me is looking afraid and concerned. "Is she choking? Someone do the Heimlich on her ass," and Jason is all the way up in my face, one arm round my shoulder.
 
"Jo, you okay? Hush, baby, hush," but there's a fierce twinkle in his eye and his whole body is saying, "Be quick, Josephine, be cost-effective. Exert your power. Cum for me, before the place erupts. I'm going to have to take my hand away. Cum for me," and then I'm screaming. I can't believe that I'm letting my body jerk all over this posh restaurant, there's something so powerful about it all. I'm cumming in their faces and nobody knows. My nails are scraping the tablecloth and someone cries out as the coffee cup shatters on the floor and I'm trying not to laugh, my cute little ass still jerking. You know those slow wave, post-cum jerks that feel like aftershocks? And I've put my fingernails through the flesh between Jason's neck and his shoulder and I can tell it really hurts him, but he's trying not to laugh too. And even as the waitress rushes over, Jason coaxes another little one. Just a tiny baby orgasm out of me, because he's greedy like that, and then it's done and he's wiping his hand free of pussy juice. Wiping it all over his face and his pretty man cheekbones and I'm like fuck, fuck. I want to laugh. That's all I feel like doing, laughing.

So I do. Delicious.

Afterwards the client calls to make sure I'm all right.

We get the deal. Pussy power.
 
Today, I feel like a bride. Walking through the special room set aside for me in the back of the church. All Vera Wang class. If I could blush I'd be blushing in the mirror. There is one hour to go. My bridesmaids, all 10 of them, have floated away, leaving me time. I do not know where they came from. None of them are my friends.
 
My dress has cost 8000 pounds. Microscopic pearls are almost invisible at the hemline, the bodice. Diamonds snigger in my ear and make promises. The dress reminds me of Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe at sunset, a huge flow of everything white in the world, roaring snowflakes, pools of chalk dust, bleached frost.
 
Today, I feel like a bride. Fragrant. I am every love song ever played. I am pink. I am the Wedding March personified. I am God's best promise, an open sack waiting to be filled with matrimonially-blessed seed. I am hope. But underneath, I am a 39 year old woman who is slipping, gratefully, off the shelf. A wedding cake, blind drunk with rum. I am the solemn, desperate hopes of my mother. I have lost my way. I have no choice.
 
"You're beautiful." I look up. I don't know how he got in. Gray hair fondles his temples.
 
"Thank you," I say.
 
"So," Jason says. He sits down at my feet, cross-legged. I can barely see him over the lace.
 
"What?" I say. "What do you want?"
 
He shakes his head. Gets up without using his hands, so graceful. Then he's back, with a sky blue bowl. I can smell the lotion, my grandmother's kitchen.
 
"What is it?" I say.
 
"I made it," he says.
 
He takes one perfect shoe off my foot. His hands are warm in the autumn breeze dancing through the church cracks. His palms are tender, and my body is already sweeter than it was before, like someone dropped sugarcane into my heart, pumped it 1000 miles a minute through my bloodstream. He draws patterns on my soles, my ankles, my thighs, pushing up through miles of dress. I sit down, legs akimbo, my back against the wall. I am whimpering as he runs his soft tongue through the hair down there, plaiting me, dipping his mouth into me, drinking me. His moistened hands have slipped under the dress's bodice and my breasts feel young again. Perky, coffee-colored beginnings. My nipples are tiny silver balls.
 
He is rubbing his magic lotion into my crotch, pouring it across my thighs. It's slick and drips off my soft belly, puddling and sinks into 8000 pounds worth of promises. He parts the lips of my pussy, as if in prayer. I watch him rubbing warm lotion over his cock, one hand on my hip. Then there are careful inches, pushing inside me.
 
I groan. Oh, I groan.
 
We've never made love before. I wonder why as I gather him into me. I wonder why, because this is a symphony of scent and breath, high notes of lemon and the pure sob of cinnamon and the darkness of cloves. I wonder why as I say his name, over and over, like I'm hushing a baby. It is almost too good.
 
He watches me writhe as he fucks me. His hand dives between our bodies. I listen to the old, familiar sound of him rubbing me. His eyes are kind as I gasp and drum my fists against his back.
 
"So this is what you feel like," he says. He's trying to be cool, but his voice is too shaky. I smile, my eyes closed.
 
"Does it feel good?" I want him to feel good.
 
"Oh yes," he says, and pushes his hands forward once more. His penis is kissing me, tiny wet kisses along the length of me, so certain. He looks into my face. One finger, delicate, gathers the tear on my cheek.
 
"Who am I?" I say.

Jason pushes into me and reminds me who I am. He tears off one pearl and fucks me juicy. He tears another and fucks me deep. I join him, fingernails sliding through cloth and lace. The dress disintegrates, baring me dark and sticky against the church floor. I'm throwing pearls across the room. We sound like animals being loved, coughing primal sounds over our lips and down our thrashing bodies. My hands are digging into his ass, pushing him further in. I have a finger inside him where it's hot and secret, guiding him, showing him how to move, how to please me. He is whining, but through it all, "Who are you, who are you, who are you?" He's saying.

And I'm a drag queen, 18 years old, trying a little something-something with the new beat of my clit. I'm a 25 year old executive, even though I never made a million. I'm years of expectations. I'm a cop-out, thinking I needed to be Cinderella because God knows my mother needs grandchildren. I'm a fuck. I'm a friend. Yeah I remember who they are. I'm enough. I'm enough. I'm just right.
 
Birds whistle at the window as we swirl into orgasm. Afterward, I leave him in a pile, run down the aisle, cupping what's left of Vera Wang to my tits, the wedding party's mouth all O's of shock, but I can see delight in the ones who are glad. Out into the shuddering light of the autumn afternoon. I hail a cab. Kick my bare feet up on the glass between me and the cab man.
 
Delicious.
 
"Drive," I say.
 
Erica: So first impressions of the story, I absolutely loved it. First time I read it, I'll be really honest. I don't need a story. This endeavor is new for me because I am not a erotic literature kind of gal. I am a whatever freclip you got on Pornhub or somebody else, that's all I need. So this was definitely different and I feel like this was a good entry story for us. Because it gave a good story, but it also-

Kenrya: That shit was hot.
 
Erica: Yeah, it was just really fucking hot. It was great stories, great scenarios. I loved it. However, it took me a minute to get exactly what was going on and by a minute, I mean I had to hear from Kenrya exactly what was happening in the story. Which made me love it even more.
 
Kenrya: As you know we just heard, it's role play, really when it comes down to it. I think very often when we think about role play, we think about the costumes you got tucked up in the closet. I have some of those costumes.
 
Erica: Girl. Costumes.
 
Kenrya: I don't really use mine, though. Not anymore. I think there's a bit of a lot going on so I can see how it could be a little bit difficult to track because she's like, "Today, I feel like this." And it's like okay bitch, but you was just something else yesterday.

Erica: Yeah, I'm like so is this dude just dropping in and out of her life every now and then?
 
Kenrya: That's what I think it was.
 
Erica: Does he just show up because, girl.
 
Kenrya: I think he just appears like Candyman.
 
Erica: The Ghost of Dicks Past. The Ghost of Pussy Past. So I have this term. I call it Ghost of Pussy Past. And essentially it's just old dick. Niggas you used to fuck with that just happen to pop back up in and out of your life like Casper. You know what? I just saw Us. These niggas tethered to the pussy. You know what, let me not say that.

Kenrya: Because that's scary.
 
Erica: That sounds like--

Kenrya: Like they going to murder the pussy with scissors.
 
Erica: That sounds Soul Ties and we don't need Crystal Pussy Twitter coming after us.
 
Kenrya: Fucking Crystal Pussy Twitter.
 
Erica: Okay, but yeah. It was just like I would fucking scream if I'm at work trying to meet with a client or do something work-like and the Ghost of Pussy Past pop up-
 
Kenrya: And put his hand in your pussy.
 
Erica: And let's be honest, there's a few ghosts if they popped up and put they hand in my pussy, I'd be like, "Well, hello. Let's see where this goes."

Kenrya: Not in the middle of a client meeting. That ain't for you?
 
Erica: Bitch, no. Because I am... you think I am expressive on this mic? Wait until I'm rocking another mic. There's no way in hell I would be able to do that, but nonetheless.

Kenrya: Hell no.

Erica: I really liked how she went through various levels in various periods in her life. But it took me a minute to understand exactly what was going on.

Kenrya: Yeah, so to me, it's like she's trying on different roles. It's essentially role play. I think so often when we think of role play, especially as it relates to sex, we think of costumes and shit. Which, I mean I had my costume period. I had my... okay, what do I have? I still have some, but I honestly don't use them anymore. It was a very short-lived period. I was trying to spice up some shit that I should have just let go.
 
Erica: And you know what, we find ourselves doing that, trying to spice up and add-
 
Kenrya: When you just need to tell that nigga to go.
 
Erica: Put some stank on some things that don't need no stank.
 
Kenrya: Right. So yeah. But I still have them. It's probably been a smooth 10 years since I put on a costume. And part of it is because I'm not in no shit that I got to spice up. My shit is extra hot all the time.
 
Erica: Yeah. And that's not to say that if you don't... if role play is your thing--
 
Kenrya: That that's the only way, exactly, exactly.

Erica: I feel like so often as women, we find ourselves in a relationship that's not working and we turn to, "What can I-" and I think it's important to do some self-reflection--
 
Kenrya: Keep it new.
 
Erica: But I think, we so often we turn to, "What's the latest trick I can do to show him, to prove to him, to wow him." And it's like, girl, if this ain't natural, then don't, don't try.
 
Kenrya: Right because a lot of times that looks like forcing it, right? It's a nigga that you probably shouldn't be with to begin with.
 
Erica: Exactly.
 
Kenrya: And if you can't have an actual conversation with him about what y'all need to do to make things great for both of y'all, like if you ain't cumming, or he not keeping it hard, maybe there's something else y'all need to talk about.

Erica: And that fucking fluffy unicorn costume ain't going to help. That's not it.
 
Kenrya: Bitch, you got a fluffy unicorn costume?
 
Erica: No, I do not have a fluffy unicorn costume. You know, I don't think I did too many of the costumes. I am comfortable with my body. I have no problem walking around naked. I have no problem being sexual. Something about costumes turn me into a fucking dork. I am like, "Meep, moop, meep, moop. I am a robot. I'm a baby dinosaur." I become a complete and utter dork when costumes are introduced.

Erica: So when I do the role playing, it's more like in the first scene, where we were... I talk a whole lot of shit during sex. So our role playing comes in when I'm just talking shit, as opposed to actual costumes. But what are your costumes?

Kenrya: I have a maid's costume.
 
Erica: Which is not fucking fun.
 
Kenrya: Aint nothing fun about that. But when I bought it, I was I don't know, 25, 26, living in an apartment by myself. I guess I thought that was sexy, but ain't shit sexy about cleaning up.
 
Erica: Ain't shit sexy about cleaning up because-
 
Kenrya: That's like my whole life now.
 
Erica: Exactly. When I think about cleaning up, I'm thinking of how quickly can I do it before I get to bed.
 
Kenrya: Yeah and ain't no special outfit for that shit.
 
Erica: Fuck no, I ain't getting bleach on these good pants.
 
Kenrya: But I do... When I got that costume, I also got a feather duster, and that shit-
 
Erica: The feather duster is good-
 
Kenrya: Because when you from behind, run that shit down your spine.

Erica: Titillating.

Kenrya: Wait, so this bitch think she can do ASMR.
 
Erica: Titillating.
 
Kenrya: She sends me random videos of herself eating fucking pickles and drumming her goddamn nails on-
 
Erica: I'll never post it on IG.
 
Kenrya: But she send them to me.
 
Erica: Because you special, bitch.
 
Kenrya: I'm special.
 
Erica: The feather duster comes in handy.
 
Kenrya: Yes. That's good. And then I have a police person costume. And here's the thing. Police are fine. That shit ain't sexy.

Erica: Not at all.

Kenrya: And the reality is most of the time when I think about police, I'm worried about my life and the people who I love.

Erica: Exactly.
 
Kenrya: And that don't really make me wet.
 
Erica: Even, now that you mention it, remember the Lil Wayne song Mrs. Officer?
 
Kenrya: Wait, that was two of our friends.
 
Erica: It was they song. They played it at their wedding.

Kenrya: Yes.
 
Erica: You know who you are.
 
Kenrya: Yup.
 
Erica: Shout out to y'all.

Kenrya: And I still think of them every time I hear that-
 
Erica: Which is... However.

Kenrya: It's an abuse of power.
 
Erica: And it's just like there are so many more things we can do other than playing cops and robbers. That's not cute.

Kenrya: It's not, so yeah. So I don't use my costumes anymore. Well, but pieces of the costume, because I love a good restraint.

Erica: If you got some good handcuffs, yes bitch. However-
 
Kenrya: I need to get some better ones.
 
Erica: I found that when introducing handcuffs with black men is difficult because you pull out the handcuffs and they like, "No bitch, we ain't doing this." And I'm like, "Wait, no, not you, me. Tie me up." And then after more conversation, it becomes a thing.

Kenrya: So I too, enjoy a good handcuff.
 
Erica: I too, enjoy a good cuffing.
 
Kenrya: But I've never... I don't think they've ever assumed I was going to put them shits on them.
 
Erica: You know what-
 
Kenrya: They just put them shits on me and keep it moving.

Erica: Well, you know, this is also, "Meep, moop, meep, moop," Erica. It's like, what the fuck this robot dinosaur about to do.

Erica: Cuffs, I've found they're much better when you do restraints as opposed to cuffs. Because handcuffs are for play play. When you really into doing some restraint shit, get you a good restraint, the leather kind.

Kenrya: So wait, are they attached or can you... because my thing is I want to put them where you can spread across the bed.
 
Erica: So the pair that I have, they have the clips so you can attach-
 
Kenrya: You can attach them.
 
Erica: But also, they have a hook. So that you can run them through ropes and stuff.

Kenrya: I need to get those, okay.
 
Erica: Actually I have a friend... So I got a someone that I once dated-
 
Kenrya: Did you date him or did you just fuck him?
 
Erica: Well, we was just fucking.

Kenrya: Okay.
 
Erica: So you go into his house and he has a nice bed and it's really nice. And once you start looking, you be like, "Are those O-rings bolted to each corner of your bed?"

Kenrya: Oh, he's prepared.

Erica: Oh he was so prepared. This nigga fucking bolted O-rings to each corner of his bed and it's kind of in some you don't really see what's going on-
 
Kenrya: Until you really look close.
 
Erica: ... until you tied up and like, "Oh shit. That's how this nigga did it."
 
Kenrya: He's committed.

Erica: Really committed. And guess what?

Kenrya: What?
 
Erica: I'm about to be that committed. Because my next bedroom set, I've definitely been looking at like, "So how can we-"
 
Kenrya: Tie some shit onto it.
 
Erica: ... "whore this up?" Take it and just sprinkle a little ho on it.

Kenrya: It's important.
 
Erica: It's important to just-
 
Kenrya: Sprinkle a little ho on some shit.
 
Erica: It's like Frank's Hot Sauce. We put that shit on everything. Put a little on everything.
 
Kenrya: Yes. With the story, in my mind, she is stepping into different roles. She is trying on different versions of herself to try to figure out which one fits. So in the first one, which I don't agree with, but she associates femininity with a lack of power. She said she doesn't want to feel feminine. She doesn't want to be a girl, because she doesn't want to be taken. You and I kind of have that opposite situation going on. Where ain't nobody taking shit.

Erica: I give you.
 
Kenrya: But she's also 18 in that scene. So very often, we got to grow... shit, I had to grow into that. So it makes sense as an 18 year old. I had a little bit of a problem. It was interesting. Before he started trying to fuck her in the ass, he did pause and he was asking for-
 
Erica: For consent.

Kenrya: ... for consent again.

Erica: Which was great.
 
Kenrya: That was really good to see that. But then, once he started and she couldn't take it and she said, "Hey we should just stop," and he didn't and he kept pushing. Yes, okay she said she wanted it and it started to feel good. As somebody who has had a dick in her ass, nigga when I say stop, you stop.
 
Erica: Yeah, I hear you. And see this is where it gets really dicey. Because I actually very recently had a situation kind of similar to that. I was with a very determined individual who... see, it's hard, because it worked out.
 
Kenrya: I mean it worked out here, too, but it made me cringe a little.
 
Erica: We were doing it and there's no way to judge it or feel it out. And this is where the whole sexual assault thing becomes so... I don't want to call it the thing like it's something-
 
Kenrya: New or trendy.
 
Erica: ... some fucking game or some shit. But this is where it gets very difficult. Because sometimes it's hard to tell when a, "No," is. Because I fuck around all the time. But you know what, it worked because I did not use our safe word.

Kenrya: Oh, well okay. Well then you had a system set up, though.
 
Erica: I definitely have a system set up. But it was like one of them, "Ooh, I don't know. This ain't going to work."
 
Kenrya: And then it worked.
 
Erica: He was like, "Keep trying bitch. Keep bearing down." And it worked and sweet Jesus did the gates of the Lord open like my butt.
 
Kenrya: But see, having a safe word was part of your consent process and she was with a fucking stranger.
 
Erica: Very true, very true.

Kenrya: So I mean that part was a little tough for me. But she felt fine. We believe women and she said that she was cool, so it was fine.

Erica: And you know what was great? I like how it was very distinct periods in her life, because I feel like we've all been... I feel like at 18 was really when I started... no. So when I got into college was really when I started trying to kind of explore my sexuality. I mean you know I had sex in high school, but it was more-

Kenrya: In the back of somebody's car?
 
Erica: Bitch.
 
Kenrya: Just the tip.

Erica: I fucking lost my virginity on a waterbed.

Kenrya: Okay so wait, y'all. So Erica is my best friend. We've known each other since our junior year of college. I ain't never heard this story before. I think it's only appropriate that you tell it today.
 
Erica: Because we're talking about first times?
 
Kenrya: Yup.

Erica: So I was in band. I was a little ashy little girl in band.
 
Kenrya: Wait, what did you play?
 
Erica: The flute. I was a flautist.

Kenrya: I knew this. We had to let the people know.

Erica: I played the flute. And I was actually so bad that my mama thought I was first chair, but the first chair was on the other side.

Kenrya: So you were last chair.

Erica: I was just like a bitch.
 
Kenrya: I mean you got to go to games.
 
Erica: Just... I was touching things.
 
Kenrya: Were you in marching band?
 
Erica: This was marching band. So there was this guy and he was in the marching band. I don't even fucking remember that nigga's name. But anyway.
 
Erica: So it's maybe spring... no, it was summer. Because you're preparing for the season or whatever. So we're all at somebody's house and we flirting and stuff. My dumb ass, nigga smiled too hard. No. I will not judge myself.
 
Kenrya: That's right.
 
Erica: Kenrya shot me a look. So I was just... I wasn't ready. You know you in a place where a little rock-biting nigga smile at you. And you're like, "Oh, I like how that tooth hang out his mouth when he eat." I shouldn't have done it. But anyway.

Kenrya: It's part of your experience.

Erica: So he's smiling. The light was hitting that tooth.
 
Kenrya: It's like gleaming, ding!
 
Erica: So we go in the back to his homeboy's room. Was it his homeboy's or his homeboy's mom? I don't know. But we was like in the back and we get on the fucking waterbed. Okay first-
 
Kenrya: What year was this?
 
Erica: Fucking like-

Kenrya: '97, '98?
 
Erica: '97, '98. So like '97. You know he had a waterbed so it couldn't have been the mama because if you are an adult-
 
Kenrya: A waterbed is not cool.

Erica: So anyway. We go in the back and there's this fucking waterbed. So we start fooling around. It is a fucking waterbed. With sex, the most important thing about sex is leverage.
 
Kenrya: Exactly.
 
Erica: That's why niggas take off they socks, they put them little hospital joints on so you get the grip-

Kenrya: Need some traction.

Erica: You need some traction. Do you not need to be floating around-
 
Kenrya: Plus he was probably very new, too.
 
Erica: And don't nobody know what you doing, so it was the fucking worst, most awkward shit. And then what makes it even worse.

Kenrya: What?

Erica: A nigga walks in.
 
Kenrya: I'm sorry.
 
Erica: We was in there like... Because look, I've been walked in on-
 
Kenrya: Were y'all even like naked or anything?
 
Erica: I've been walked in on multiple times, and I am like, "Look, you caught a bit of this. Bitch, take notes."
 
Kenrya: Right.
 
Erica: This time, it was like he walked in and was like, "Hey." And I was like... I don't even remember if I was naked.
 
Kenrya: I feel like when you're young like that-
 
Erica: I probably wasn't. He just open, spaces.
 
Kenrya: Yeah. With somebody people room and shit.
 
Erica: It was the fucking worst. Primarily because one, we didn't know what we was doing and two, we didn't have fucking leverage. You need traction. You need to be pushing off of things and we were two little ashy ass kids floating in a sea of cheap ass 12 count, 1-ply ass polyester sheets. It was just disgusting. And this is also when I tell little girls about having sex, I'm like, "Girl wait because-"
 
Kenrya: You deserve so much more.
 
Erica: You deserve a better story other than fucking rock-biter on a fucking waterbed in somebody house. Like, girl.
 
Kenrya: Since everybody want to podcast these days, they could at least be thinking about how they might have to tell that story one day.
 
Erica: Exactly. So I've had a chance to lose my virginity a few more times after that and it was delightful.
 
Kenrya: Delightful. So yeah. I like that she is different people at different times. And you can see her growth. But also that she called herself out in that last one, right? She felt like a bride, but she only felt like a bride because her mama was forcing her. And I love that-
 
Erica: That is some transformational dick. That dick was like... It knocked some sense in her.
 
Kenrya: I don't want to give him that much credit.
 
Erica: And I was just about to say, "Men don't think that you got transformational." Your dick ain't that magical. What happens is you just-
 
Kenrya: She remembered herself.
 
Erica: ... knock a little piece of her into place.
 
Kenrya: That's right.
 
Erica: It was more her. Your dick was helpful, but you know.
 
Kenrya: It was an assist.
 
Erica: Yeah, it was an assist.
 
Kenrya: But she figured that shit out.
 
Erica: I would have used a sports metaphor, but I know nothing about it.
 
Kenrya:
That's a sports assist, like in basketball.
 
Erica:
Where they like throw something and catch and be like ‘boop’.
 
Kenrya:
I'm going to go ahead and say no.
 
Erica:
Okay, excuse me. Whatever.
 
Kenrya:
I love that she got there. Not only did she bounce. We never found out what the nigga’s name was she was supposed to marry because nigga don't matter. And I think if this had been... I mean, this would never be a romantic comedy, but if it had been a movie, she would have walked out hand-in-hand with this nigga or hit the altar and they would have gotten married or some bullshit-
 
Erica:
Bullshit.
 
Kenrya:
But she said, "I left him in a pile on the floor." And I was like, "Yes bitch." It was all I could do not to yell that as I was reading it. And it's not because I don't like men. I love men. But that it wasn't about him.
 
Erica:
It was about her. And how she found herself.
 
Kenrya:
He wasn't saving her. She was saving herself.
 
Erica: So I actually really loved this. Thank you for the pick, Kenrya, because this was a good starter. Thank you for getting us wet.
 
Kenrya: Ooh, I like it. So I think that since this is our first episode and we just talked a little bit about your first time having sex-
 
Erica: On a fucking waterbed.
 
Kenrya:
... on a waterbed, we'll save my first time story for another time. But, this was also Josephine's first time doing something.
 
Erica:
What what... no talk. I'm going to give you the background.
 
Kenrya:
Okay cool. It was her first time having anal sex. Yes, what what in the butt. So wait, she sings this shit all the time. First of all, she don't even know where it came from.
 
Erica:
Yeah, I don't. I just sing it because it just makes... Isn't it a great little ditty?
 
Kenrya:
It was a viral video though. Yes, just like that.
 
Both:
What what in the butt.

Erica:
We make songs for everything.
 
Kenrya:
We do, a lot. But she also sings it at fucking inappropriate times. I had to have a colonoscopy.
 
Erica:
Well there are lots of times when things are going in your butt. It's not that it's inappropriate times, it's the appropriate time.
 
Kenrya:
Bitch, I was recovering-

Erica:
It's not like I'm singing it at like bar mitzvahs.
 
Kenrya:
I was still under anesthesia, still coming out-
 
Erica:
And that's when everyone's the most fun.
 
Kenrya:
... still foggy.
 
Erica:
You should appreciate a good song.
 
Kenrya:
And this bitch called me singing What What in the Butt.
 
Erica:
And I sang it at mine.
 
Kenrya:
You did. At least it was equal opportunity.
 
Erica:
We sing it when we discuss things in the butt. Because what what, in the butt.
 
Kenrya:
That's what's up.
 
Erica:
Tell me about your first time.
 
Kenrya:
Okay. Unfortunately, my first time with anal was not fantastic. So I was in a situation that I was trying to force to work, just like Josephine with her wedding situation. But I waited way too long to walk away from that. But in the course of it, this nigger kept trying to get me to do anal. And I just wasn't really comfortable because reality was I didn't even like him that much by that time.
 
Erica:
Here's my thing. As someone that does do anal I don't... I mean, I like it.
 
Kenrya:
Yeah, I do too.
 
Erica:
But I also really hate it when guys-
 
Kenrya:
Pressure you for that shit.
 
Erica:
... use pressure like, "Ooh, I want to try it. I want to try it. I want to try it." Like bro.
 
Kenrya:
Chill. It's my body. We'll do it at some point-
 
Erica:
I will give you the privilege-
 
Kenrya:
... but why does it have to be some big huge thing?
 
Erica:
Yeah.
 
Kenrya:
I don't know.
 
Erica:
Okay.
 
Kenrya:
But so he kept pressuring me for it and finally one day, talk about spicing shit up. I was like, "All right, we can try." And so, you know, the lube, the whatever. But for me, I have to be... Like yeah, I can have one-night stands. I have plenty. I still have to want it. It doesn't have to be an emotional connection so much. I got to really want to fucking do it and I didn't want to do it.

Kenrya:
So he attempted. It was a big dick. Which makes things more difficult.
 
Erica:
Note of the day, if you got a big dick, don't be asking for too much anal. Because it takes a pro. You got a nice smedium dick? Even a small dick. I appreciate a small dick.
 
Kenrya:
In the butt.
 
Erica:
If you know what you're doing.
 
Kenrya:
Yeah, yeah. No problem. So I didn't really want to do it. So he tried and it hurt. And I was like, "Fuck. No. Stop." And so that was it. That's the extent of my first anal experience.
 
Erica:
Girl when they be trying and it don't work... I did not understand the expression, "Seeing stars," until I had a nigga, 'accidentally,' and I mean this in air quotes, ram it up my butt. Not even ram it up my butt. Try to get it up my butt. Bitch, I literally-
 
Kenrya:
Ain't no accidental about that shit.
 
Erica:
... was like fucking Bugs Bunny. On my stomach, with stars-
 
Kenrya:
Circling around your head?
 
Erica:
Stars and birds circling around my head. That shit is not fun.
 
Kenrya:
No, it's not.
 
Erica:
So my first time doing it... I like trying new things. I consider myself a try-sexual. I will try anything once, except for scat play. You are not shitting on me, I am not shitting on you. Other than that, bitch we can try.
 
Kenrya:
They got all these weird ass... No, we are, but interesting names for that shit. So we-
 
Erica:
As my granny said, "Wait-"
 
Kenrya:
No, but there's like a Cleveland Steamer or some.
 
Erica:
Yeah, that's when you... nevermind.
 
Kenrya:
No, tell us what it is.
 
Erica:
So I think a Cleveland Steamer is when you shit on they chest or something like that.
 
Kenrya:
But I'm like why y'all got to bring my city into this shit? And then I heard about-
 
Erica:
Well it is Cleveland.
 
Kenrya:
Fuck you bitch.
 
Erica:
Why wouldn't they? I mean y'all make a lot of chili, right?
 
Kenrya:
No, bitch we don't eat chili.
 
Erica:
Oh that's Cincinnati, my bad.
 
Kenrya:
Yes. You done mixed up the Cs in Ohio.
 
Erica:
Same difference, but okay.
 
Kenrya:
Not the same, whatever. It's like 5.5 hours away. Whatever. That's not for me. But one thing that we always say on this show is that we never yuck anyone's yum.

Erica:
Yuck anyone's yum. So if you like it, that's good.
 
Kenrya:
I mean, we want to hear about it, honestly.
 
Erica:
Yeah, if that's what you do... Side note. Y'all will get lots of my granny stories. So my granny told me about... first we were talking about Donald Trump. And she told me how she's convinced that-
 
Kenrya:
Did you really just say his name?
 
Erica:
I'm sorry. 45. She told me that she's convinced that 45 has piss tapes. Why? Because she said she talked to a real-life ho. And that real-life ho told her that these men take them out and they give them all this food. They give them this rich, good food and feed them and get them good and drunk and take them back to hotels and pay the hos to piss on them and shit on them.
 
Kenrya:
Yes.
 
Erica:
My granny told me this. So first, it's Granny. Two, it was a real live whore.
 
Kenrya:
So we trust whores.
 
Erica:
So this story is just gold-certified. That is exactly what happens. FYI.
 
Kenrya:
You don't even go ask the homey in Google. Now you know.
 
Erica:
Now you know. Granny and a real live whore. She was like, "She went to whore school. Certified, stamped whore." So my story about anal.
 
Erica:
Okay so first time I tried it I was on vacation. I mean I'd been wanting to do it for a while. So first time on vacation with this guy and I was on my period. I think I was a little yeasty. This nigga didn't-
 
Kenrya:
You needed another hole.
 
Erica:
He flew me out and my mouth was tired and shit. And so I was like, well-
 
Kenrya:
Might as well.
 
Erica:
... might as well.
 
Kenrya:
Get the lube.
 
Erica:
Jaws getting tired. Might as well try a little something something. And it was... I'm not super experienced, but every time I've tried it thus far, you just got to have willpower.
 
Kenrya:
And lube.
 
Erica:
Yes.
 
Kenrya:
The right kind of lube. Silicone-based.
 
Erica:
Silicone-based lube. You need something thick.
 
Kenrya:
Do not water in it. Spit ain't it.
 
Erica:
Yeah.
 
Kenrya:
Ooh, because he just used spit in the story and that's like nigga that's not enough.
 
Erica:
I was like this is definitely poetic license. So we will do a whole... I feel like we need to talk about... I research everything. So we need to talk about different lubes and what's better for what and that kind of thing. But for anal, you need something thick. You need something silicone-based. And also, when you're doing it up the butt, you done committed. This is like us with this podcast. We done committed to go on the record as lifelong hos.
 
Kenrya:
It's fine.
 
Erica:
When you do anal, you just got to commit. Unless we taking showers and wiping shit off... I mean you need to wipe shit off. You need to commit to we just doing anal tonight. Don't be thinking you going to swap it in and out of places. Because that makes a very angry-
 
Kenrya:
I swap, but we go, well no, you got to go-
 
Erica:
... very angry coo pappy.
 
Kenrya:
You got to go wash the whole situation before you reenter.
 
Erica:
Yes, yes.
 
Kenrya:
So you got to plan for a break.
 
Erica:
Or start vaginally then go anal.
 
Kenrya:
Yes, absolutely.
 
Erica:
Anyway. So we had been on vacation and mouth got tired. I was like, let me give this nigga something else to you know. He flew a bitch out.
 
Kenrya:
He flewed you out?
 
Erica:
I got flewed out. Tosses hair. So we are at it and the first couple... It hurt like hell. So when you doing it, you got to push down like you trying to poop out. You got to be very comfortable with your body and where you are. Don't try to do it after y'all went to the Melting Pot.
 
Kenrya:
Yeah, you don't want to be gassy and shit. That's not.
 
Erica:
No big fondue dates before you do this.

Kenrya:
Yeah, you push out like you're trying to poop, it opens the hole so they can get in.
 
Erica:
And then it just kind of... like in the story. Just something, bam, something happens.

Kenrya:
I think the head has to get all the way in first. I feel like once that's in, it's a little easier to get the rest in. It's like a ring of fire.
 
Erica:
I feel like someone that's really experienced with this is listening to it, laughing at us.
 
Kenrya:
Bitch, I just open it up and we go. Yeah, but it takes time.
 
Erica:
But it's a very rewarding experience.
 
Kenrya:
It is. So I'll say for me, although my first experience was shitty, the second time-
 
Erica:
No pun intended.
 
Kenrya:
Ah, you smart bitch. The second time I wanted it. I was with someone who I actually really liked. And it was a medium dick. But in the best way.

Erica:
So you were telling me about a little vibrator or something?
 
Kenrya:
Two things. One, it helped because he really knew what he was doing. So his first thing was he needed to have me cum first vaginally. So first we fucked and I came-
 
Erica:
Everything loose and gushy.
 
Kenrya:
Exactly. So we did that. And then, I have this vibrator that's like a little egg but it's on a stick almost. So it's a G-spot stimulator. So we put that in and pushed it up against the front wall. So now, you getting vibration and all the stuff going from the inside and then he came in from the outside. Yes, there was a little ring of fire situation, but because it wasn't huge, once we got past that, shit was amazing.
 
Erica:
So I have a little butt plug. It's a little vibrating butt plug-
 
Kenrya:
Oh yeah, I got one of those too.
 
Erica:
... It's not huge. But that has been helpful in kind of... You need to be... Like I said, I research everything. I have steps for everything. Sex, especially anal play, is not... Get the steps in mind, get it down. But it really needs to be an organic process. Just feel things out. It's helpful when everything is just loose. So sometime, its very helpful. I mean like yes. If you're anything like me, do your research, read, all that. But once you got it in your head, just kind of let it go.
 
Kenrya:
So the third person that I have had anal with was... That's a big dick. And it took us three tries... maybe four tries. By the last time, we kind of had a system. So we used an anal plug first. Once we got that all the way in there, things are kind of opened up. And then he was able to come in... We took it out. And he was able-

Erica:
It's like when you're feeding a baby. Take the pacifier out, shove the titty in their mouth.
 
Kenrya:
That's literally what we had to do. So we were able to get 75% of the dick in, and we was at 50% the time before that. So that primed the situation and got everything a little more open and then once we got in, it was good.
 
Erica:
A delight.
 
Kenrya:
So we really had to kind of do it in stages.
 
Erica:
You're like, "Well, tonight is 75% night."
 
Kenrya:
Literally, we worked... because it's something that I like and it's something that he likes and because we had great communication, we were able to figure out our little plan.
 
Erica:
Communication is so key.
 
Kenrya:
Our little sexy plan.
 
Erica:
I say this all the time. Especially to guys I'm fucking. I'm like, "Look, if you are able to put your face in my pussy, the least you can do is be able to talk to me about your wants and needs. Now this is Erica you're talking to, so I may not give a fuck about your wants, but-"
 
Kenrya:
But at least you're able to say it.
 
Erica:
Yeah. It's important. It's so important to just communicate with the person you're having sex with. People be like, "I don't want to say that to him."
 
Kenrya:
Well you don’t want to fuck that nigga.
 
Erica:
But didnt you just have your face on his dick? Like make that work!

Kenrya:
But that was my first time with anal. And this is our first episode of The Turn On podcast.
 
Erica:
I'm doing a youthful dance.
 
Kenrya:
She is.
 
Erica:
The one where they throw the hand in the air, but it doesn't look right.
 
Kenrya:
That's not a real, yeah.
 
Erica:
Anyway.
 
Kenrya:
That's fine.

Erica:
You don't even know.
 
Kenrya:
I don't, to be honest.
 
Erica:
So it could be.

Kenrya:
Okay.
 
Erica:
Anyway. Welcome, thank you for joining us.
 
Kenrya:
Thank you for joining us.
 
Erica:
This has been the first episode of The Turn On with your lovely host Erica.

Kenrya:
And Kenrya, that's my name.
 
Erica:
Killer Ken.
 
Kenrya:
That is also my name.
 
Erica:
So welcome, thank you for joining us and we will see you again soon.
 
Kenrya:
Until next time, we are two hos, making it clap.
 
Erica:
Making it clap.

Kenrya:
This is ridiculous.
 
Erica:
This episode was produced by your lovely hosts, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. Now listen. Every five star review posted on Apple Podcasts between now and July 31st 2019 will be entered into a raffle to win a copy of one of the five books we read on the show. We are giving away five books. Just post your review and email a screenshot to theturnonpodcast@gmail.com to enter. And please, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, follow us on Twitter @theturnonpod, and Instagram @theturnonpodcast and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at theturnonpodcast.com.
 
Erica:
Bye.