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SHOW NOTES
In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to Sondi Warner about non-traditional publishing, making consent sexy and the trio at the center of her book, "Lead Me Astray."

Resources:​

• Book, "Lead Me Astray": Wattpad
• Author, Sondi Warner: Website | Twitter | Instagram​

The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.

Transcript:
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.

Kenrya: Our guest today is Sondi Warner, pronouns she and her. Sondi writes LGBTQ+ polyamorous romance under the pen name, Lesserknown1. When this cis-lesbian writer isn't shipping triads, she enjoys playing video games, critiquing internet pics of other people's gumbo and spending family time with her life partner and four kids. Sondi, we're so glad that you're here with us today. Thanks for coming through.

Sondi: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

Erica: Kenrya just read your official bio. I feel a little judged because I am someone from St. Louis that loves to make gumbo. I will never post it for people like you. But tell us in just regular-ass words what you do.

Sondi: What I do is, I basically use my platform of writing to share diverse narratives, so that people can get exposure to different types of relationships, polyamorous relationships, consensual non-monogamy. And I also like to place an emphasis on LGBTQ-plus characters. Because I think that it builds empathy when someone is able to stand in the shoes of someone else and to kind of say, "Well, this isn't too different. This isn't too unbelievable." So I write queer polyamorous romance so that I can share those diverse narratives, as kind of a form of creative activism.

Kenrya: Wow. So what's your writer origin story? Did you always know you're a writer? Were you the six-year-old writing stories on the back of everything?

Sondi: Yes, I was. I was in the second grade. I was about seven years old, actually. And my second grade teacher came up with this competition. She's like, "Hey, I want everyone in class to write this story." And I did, she entered it into a regional writing contest and I won first place. And then I went on to win first place every year for the next five years. And so, winning definitely made me feel like, "Okay, yeah. This is what I'm supposed to do. I'm a writer. I'm the writer of my parish." Clearly, I was a pretentious kid, but I was also full of myself. I kid you not. It took growing up, becoming an adult, getting into the world of ghost writing to realize, "Well, maybe I'm not quite a writer yet. But I'm going to be." So yeah, I always knew this is what I wanted to do.

Erica: I love the idea of a little Black girl being full of herself. We need more Sondis in the world. So we learned that you worked as a ghost writer for years. What made you make the leap from working on books for other people to creating your own?

Sondi: That one was an easier leap than I wanted it to be. I had been working with a client for a very long time and we had built a great rapport. We had a great relationship, a very well-paying client. Unfortunately, he decided to close his publishing company unexpectedly. Which put me back into the gig economy. Relying on finding new clients and I was having trouble with it at the time. I went through a little phase of depression behind it. And my daughter says, "Well, get away from that stuff. Get away from the sales figures, the marketing, the chasing behind clients and writing to someone else's specifications. If this is what you love doing, do this thing." It may sound like I'm making this up, but I kid you not. My 14-year-old is probably a 23-year-old trapped in a 14-year-old's body.

Sondi: And so, she sat me down with Ava DuVernay's TED talk. She's like, "Watch this." And she's like, "Listen to what she's saying. If this is what you want to do, do it because you love it. Don't do it because you have to do it. Don't do it because it's a job." That really kind of sparked it. It made me feel like there is something else that I can be doing with this. It can still be my career. But for now, I can embrace this writing for myself, just writing for leisure. Even if it doesn't necessarily go anywhere. I think I've found the most success when I got away from that model of, "This is my job. I clock in, I write, I turn it into a client." And I got into the mode of, "This is what I love to do. I get up and I write and then I post it. And I share with people and I see how they like it."

Kenrya: Wow. Look at that baby changing your life in all the ways.

Erica: I was going to say, that full of herself six-year-old later on went to birth an amazing 14-year-old. Jeez, that is so dope. So you kind of touched on this a little bit towards the end of that last answer. But the book we read last week, Lead Me Astray, was published in a nontraditional way. So why did you make that choice and can you tell us a little bit more about that process?

Sondi: Yes. So, as I pointed out, my daughter tells me, "Hey, do this thing because you love it." And at the time, she was a huge fan of this platform called Wattpad. And I had heard about Wattpad. It's been around for forever. But I really thought of it as this place for teenagers to spew their hormonal stories. But when I saw how much she was on there and enjoying it. And I knew what her interests and tastes were, which weren't really kind of those traditional teenager tastes, I was like, "Well, let me see what this is." And I decided to follow her advice and post my stories on to the Wattpad platform. So to clarify what Wattpad actually is, it is a story sharing platform where anyone can write and post their story for others to read. But in the past five to two... Three to five years, they've kind of expanded their roles into a talent agency.

Sondi: And so you see movies like “After.” You see shows like “Light As A Feather” on Hulu. These are things that kind of started at Wattpad, that kind of got an international market and expanded. They became much bigger than just a story on a free writer's platform. And so yeah, by me posting “Lead Me Astray” onto Wattpad, it actually ended up becoming really beneficial for me. It opened up a lot of opportunities for me. It was nontraditional. But I think that the publishing industry is evolving in such a way, that you're going to see a lot more authors coming out with a different way of doing things and finding success with that.

Kenrya: That's awesome.

Erica: So where did the inspiration for this story come from? We opened this call with me gushing about how unique and layered the story was, but where did the inspiration come from?

Sondi: Well, when I sat down, and it was really rapid fire, I wish that there was a way to fully put you in that moment. But if you can imagine a woman walking around her living room, just kind of in this angsty period of, "What am I going to do? I'm a writer. I don't feel like I'm sharing my work. I don't feel like I'm getting exposure that I need. I don't feel like it's going anywhere." And then if you can imagine someone saying, "Hey, sit down. If this is what you like to do, just do the thing." It transitioned so quickly from there to me grabbing a notebook and jotting down ideas and saying, "Okay, if I was going to read this book, what type of character would I want to see?" And I wanted to see a character like me, like my daughter.

Sondi: I wanted to see someone who wasn't a generic African American character. I wanted to see someone who was a Black girl in her own space, a space of success, a space of aspirations. And I wanted to see what would happen if she encountered all of these trials and tribulations that had to make her stronger. Because obviously that's all of our life stories, it doesn't matter what your background is. Aurie Edison is the daughter of a celebrity, but she still have her hardships. And so, the inspiration for her and the rest of the characters was really just kind of looking at my life and saying, "What do I want to see? What type of story do I need to tell myself to get out of this moment?"

Kenrya: So my next question was going to be, which one of the characters do you most identify with? So I think what I would just ask now is why? Because you just told us.

Sondi: Yeah. I actually identify with each of the main characters. There are three. We've got Aurie, Mys and Zyr. She wants to live her best life. But if I had to say who I related to the most, you would have to take different character traits from each of them. Because let's be clear, Aurie Edison's character is to me, this kid who is just going and getting it, just doing it, following all the rules, making all these smart choices. And then something unfortunate happens to her. I was kind of like Aurie's sister Haley. I was the one who was, when I was younger, I was the one who was like, "I want to sneak into the parties. I want to hop in the car with strangers. I want to do all the wild things." And it was my sister who was like Aurie in terms of just her temperament.

Sondi: She was like, "No, Sondi. You can't lean out over a high rise and take pictures. Because it's dangerous." But in terms of the other characters, from Aurie I take kind of that desire to live her best life. From Haley, I take that devil may care attitude. And from Mys, Mys has this kind of mysterious enigmatic type of feel. I am just as much a loner as Mys. I very rarely leave my house. And so the whole time I was writing that character, they really kind of reflected my own desire to be in this bubble, to close myself off from the world. Because the emotions of the world can sometimes be so overwhelming. And from Zyr, he's a total workaholic and I think that I probably am a workaholic too. So a little bit from everybody, definitely.

Kenrya: Love it. One of the many things we love about this book, because we love this book, is that it makes consent a natural, sexy part of the story. Why was that important to you?

Sondi: At the end of the day, what I've seen happening in pop culture is just an awareness that consent is a necessary part of relationships, of sex, of every interaction. If I go in to hug you, I'm going to ask you first, "Is it okay if I hug you?" And the reason it was important for me is because I want to take this next generation of young readers. I wrote this book really kind of geared toward older Gen Z readers. And I want it to be normal and sexy. I don't want them to think, "Okay, this is the awkward moment where I have to say whether or not I consent." I want it to be like, "You know what? This is the natural part of interacting with other people."

Sondi: Because if you care about someone, then you don't just impose, you don't just make assumptions. And if we start to amplify that message, I think that we can kind of see a change across the culture when it comes down to how we discuss sex and how we interact with other people. It should be natural, it should just be a natural part of the process.

Kenrya: Absolutely. If readers can take just one thing away with them after they read Lead Me Astray, what would you want that to be?

Sondi: The most important aspect of the story to me, is that sometimes you can do everything right, you can make all the smart decisions, and things can still go drastically wrong. But that the caveat is you go through these things, it's not a test to stop you or to bring you down, but it's kind of a test to prepare you for the next level. And if readers can take in Aurie, Mys and Zyr's story and kind of walk away from it thinking they went through a lot of stuff. But in the end they were able to accomplish their goals. Aurie was able to live her best life. Mys was able to figure out that they deserved love. Zyr was able to understand that if you care about someone, it can't be all work and 'you guys got to understand I'm working.' And if readers come away from the story understanding that you're going to go through something, but you're going to be okay, that would really make me happy.

Sondi: Because I said to you before, that when I sat down to write this book, I asked myself, "What is the story I need to hear right now? What story is it? What's going to speak to me and take me out of this dark moment that I'm in? Because I'm not working, I'm not doing the thing that I love. I'm not receiving the accolades that I want at this point in my life." The story wrote itself. And the message that I needed to hear was that you're going to go through this thing, but you're going to be okay. You're going to come out okay. So I hope that that's what readers take away from it.

Kenrya: Awesome. So what are you reading right now?

Sondi: Right now? I'm so glad you asked me that. Okay, so one of the things is... One of the things is, as a Wattpad writer, I'm also a Wattpad star. And that's just basically, it basically means I'm part of their digital talent roster. And so I spend a lot of time reading trad published books and indie published books. But I also spend a lot of time reading those books by the up and coming authors on Wattpad. And there is this fantastic series by this author and Wattpad named Graham Bower. And it's the Earthshine series, basically chronicling...

Sondi: It's kind of got a sci-fi feel to it, but you get deeper into it before you get to the sci-fi part. But it's chronically the lives of these two characters who find out that they have this special ability to, I guess, transcend. I guess that's the best word for it. And the book opens up with fantastic writing. The characters are beautiful and believable. It takes you to places, it's a travel type of book. We get to go to India, we go through France, we go to Europe. I'm enjoying that book quite a bit. It's called Earthshine, it's on Wattpad, and that is by Graham Bowers.

Kenrya: Thanks. We always like a good book recommendation, so we appreciate that. And then our last question is what's next for you?

Sondi: What's next for me? Well, right now I'm working on book two of the Overlay City series. And so, I will be done with the entire three books by, hopefully by next year. But in the midst of writing, I'm also doing my own IGTV show. It's called Behind the Scenes with LK1 and it's just basically a way for me to share and end up looking through the types of writing that I do. And also to kind of give words of encouragement and advice to other people. And along with that, I have also been gearing up to see Lead Me Astray transition into bigger and better opportunities. And I can't wait to be able to share that with my readership. So 2020, I'm looking forward to this year being incredibly busy and incredibly active, and is the kind of busy that I like. Writing, videos, doing as much as I can to share my creative force.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: Yeah. You saying that reminded me of a question that I wanted to ask. Which is where did your pen name come from?

Sondi: That's funny because most people don't ask that. The Lesserknown1. Well, they say every family has a writer. My family has several writers, actually. My mom, she writes, she's a hobby writer. My sister's a published author. Well, she's indie published. My younger brother actually does a lot of the story development for video games with EA. And so, I'm kind of the lesser known one. I write queer, polyamorous romance. I'm just kind of diving into it and coming from behind the scenes, coming from the ghost writing end, more so backdoor, more so not forward facing. So the Lesserknown1 reflects just kind of that sense of you don't know me yet, but you will know me. I'm coming out of the shadow, definitely.

Kenrya: I was about to say, that's changing.

Sondi: Yeah, I hope so.

Kenrya: So, we want to make sure that we let folks know where they can find you. I see your website is lesserknown1.com, correct?

Sondi: That is correct. And you can also find-

Kenrya: Okay. And on Wattpad, it's wattpad.com... Oh, go ahead. Tell us, please.

Sondi: Oh, you're doing a fantastic job. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to over talk you. I was just going to say you can also find me on wattpad.com/user/lesserknown1, the number one, altogether. You can also find me on Twitter and on Instagram. And my handles on both of those are lesser_known_1.

Kenrya: Wonderful. See, you did a great job at it. And that ends this week's episode of The Turn On. And thank you so much for joining us.

Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. We want to hear from you all. Send your book recommendations and all the burning sex and related questions you want us to answer to theturnonpodcast@gmail.com. And please subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app. Follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast, and find links to our books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff @TheTurnOnPodcast.com. And remember The Turn On is now a part of the Frolic podcast network. You can find more shows you'll love at Frolic.media/podcast. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you soon.

LISTEN TO THE TURN ON
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube

CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON
Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon

SHOW NOTES
In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read Sondi Warner's "Lead Me Astray" and talk about paranormal creatures, consent and tapping into our primal selves.

Resources:

• Book, "Lead Me Astray": Wattpad
  
• Author, Sondi Warner: Website | Twitter | Instagram

​​​
The Turn On participates in affiliate programs, which provide a small commission when you purchase products via links on this site. This costs you nothing, but helps support the show. Click here for more information.

TRANSCRIPT
Kenrya: Come here. Get off.

Erica: So, welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. We are reading “Lead Me Astray” which is by Sondi Warner also known as LesserKnown1, the number 1, on all her socials and also in Wattpad. So, the structure of this book is a little bit, well just a how to get it is a little different. This book is available on Wattpad which is a website, an app, and you have access to the book weekly? Or is it just ...

Kenrya: I don't know, I guess it's whenever they put up additional chapters?

Erica: Yeah. So, this is not a Netflix kind of book, binge book. This is an NBC every Wednesday night-

Kenrya: Watch it as it comes.

Erica: ... watch it as it comes book.

Kenrya: Yeah. Unless you come to like we did after it's already up. But it's cool because it's not traditionally published.

Erica: That's what I'm trying to say. It's not traditionally published but nonetheless, we picked it which means this is a good ass book.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: It's a good ass story. So, sit back, relax, get your wine, get your weed, get your whatever you need, and let's go.

Head over to Wattpad to read the selection.

Erica: That was “Lead Me Astray,” by Sondi Warner, also known as LesserKnown1. So, this book could best be described as a paranormal erotic murder mystery, right?

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That sounds good.

Erica: This book is great, y'all. Please read it. It is such a good story with lots of twists and turns and this is another story where it's told, each chapter's told from the perspective-

Kenrya: A different perspective, yeah.

Erica: ... of one of the main characters. It is just great. This is one of those books that when we came up with The Turn On this was the type of book that I imagined us doing. It features people of all genders, all races, just living, loving, and a good ass story.

Kenrya: Fucking.

Erica: Fucking. Good fucking. We got to that. All right, so, I'll give a synopsis. Kenrya, please stop me because I know I'm about to fuck this up.

Kenrya: No, you got it.

Erica: But it's so good. So, just get on this train ride with me. I know we're going to get there. We be on lots of trains together, y'all. Choo-choo.

Kenrya: That's what she said.

Erica: Okay. So, the story starts with this Black woman, Aurie. She goes to a party with her younger sister. She gets killed at the party.

Kenrya: It sucks man.

Erica: Sucks bad.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: So, she gets killed and then she kind of pops up, her spirit pops up and is like, "Whoa, shit. What's going on?" And she sees everybody in the commotion but then she sees this person off in the distance looking at her like, "Oh, shit. That's fucked up."

Kenrya: Right. It's like clear eye contact.

Erica: Clear eye contact. And so, Aurie realizes, "Yo, this person can see me." So, she follows 'em. So, the person that she follows is Mys, which is the Japanese intersex person. So, Aurie follows Mys to their home and ...

Kenrya: Okay, y'all we might as well, so, we have a studio dog.

Erica: Yeah, we have a studio dog and he just ... So, we try to edit around him but it's kind of difficult.

Kenrya: He is right here.

Erica: So, he is right here in Kenrya's face and just did a whole little shimmy thing.

Kenrya: Hey. He's just going to stare at me.

Erica: He's going to stare at you.

Kenrya: Okay.

Erica: Okay, so, Aurie follows Mys home to their home and just kind of becomes just a little pest?

Kenrya: Yeah. Just hanging out.

Erica: And Mys explains to Aurie like, "Yo, you got some unfinished business. So, you just need to go on about your business and get your unfinished business taken care of."

Kenrya: So, you can go.

Erica: So, you can go. The third character in the story is Zyr. Zyr is a detective that's responsible for investigating Aurie's death, and he ends up as a part of the crew.

Kenrya: Right. And Zyr's a werewolf, right?

Erica: He's a werewolf male.

Kenrya: Yes.

Erica: A male werewolf.

Kenrya: Yes.

Erica: Okay, so Aurie's stuck between here and the afterlife because she has some unfinished business and while she's trying to close out that business she falls in love with Mys and Zyr. And they have a polyamorous relationship. After weeks and weeks of increasing tension, they have sex.

Kenrya: That was what we just read.

Erica: And what we just read was the first time that they're having sex. Something important to note in the story is that Mys is a sex worker and because they're intersex they don't like having sex other than just oral sex. They say anything above the top we're good. You're not going below.

Kenrya: So, above the waist, okay.

Erica: Yeah. Anything above the waist, yeah. Anything below that, sorry boo.

Kenrya: It's off-limits, yeah.

Erica: It's off-limits.

Kenrya: And we should note that Mys is also a supernatural being?

Erica: Yes.

Kenrya: They live between ...

Erica: They live between the two worlds.

Kenrya: Right. And so, the book is set in New Orleans but it's also called Overlay City?

Erica: Overlay City. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: Right. And so, Overlay City sits at this nexus, it's like a space where supernaturals and the humans-

Erica: It's like the point between.

Kenrya: ... all live together but they can't necessarily identify each other?

Erica: Yes. We're going to have Sondi on to-

Kenrya: Yeah, it's really cool. But it's like between heaven and ...

Erica: It's like the overlay. I looked at it as the current tangible what we see world is New Orleans. And Overlay City is like this transparent-

Kenrya: A veil that's on top of it.

Erica: Yeah, it's a filter.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: You know, on top that some people can see. Some people can't.

Kenrya: Right. And so, Mys is a Sup, which is what they call themselves, short for Supernatural, just as Zyr is. So, that's why Mys can see Aurie when she dies. It's not, she doesn't have magical powers because she's intersex or they don't have magical powers because they're intersex. It's because they are also a Supernatural.

Erica: Yes.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: So, this scene is a really big part of the story because this is the first time that Mys is letting their walls down and allowing anyone to see their body fully and experience them. Right?

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: So, this is really big. So, yeah, so that's where we start in the story. Again, I probably gave a horrible description of it.

Kenrya: I don't think you did.

Erica: I hope I gave you enough of a description to want to read it. I cannot wait to talk to Sondi because I feel like she has really built this world and thought it out very well. Like just the little rules and the way things work.

Kenrya: Right, and they're consistent, right?

Erica: And it's so, I'm just like, "Girl, that brain of yours is just amazing."

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: So, I'm really excited to talk to Sondi about it. But back to the story and the excerpt that we read. So, this chapter, first, it is so sexy that Zyr is a werewolf. Like I would be fucking ... He's a werewolf but he has a human form.

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: And so, it opens with him circling the two of them, kind of like a prey, like they're prey and they're being hunted. And he kind of opens with like a soliloquy maybe?

Kenrya: Oh, about freedom or ...

Erica: Yeah, to be truly free we give up something. To be free we lose the ability to the capricious whims of our own primal selves. I mean, okay, in real life if I was about to have sex with somebody and this nigga started prowling and-

Kenrya: Great, giving a speech?

Erica: Give me a speech? I'd be like, "Nigga."

Kenrya: Nigga. Get it over here.

Erica: Wah, wah, wah. I have to get that Price is Right song so that I can play it when I'm trying to say it.

Kenrya: If we can do that legally?

Erica: All right.

Kenrya: Research.

Erica: I guess. I was going to say, "Fuck it." But we about to blow up and I don't need somebody coming snatching a whole good episode.

Kenrya: Exactly.

Erica: So, all right, but I think what he's saying is really true. Like in order to have good sex it's primal. It is just like you got to let loose, you know?

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: What do you think?

Kenrya: I can see that. I mean I think when I was reading that part, I was thinking that he was talking about like larger implications of letting yourself go. I wasn't even just thinking about the sex part of it.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: So, yes, with the sex part of it I think yeah, I think very often, I was just having this experience of like being in my head and not letting go on some shit. That to me speaks to not tapping fully into that primal sense, right? Because you're thinking instead of just being a ball of actions. Right?

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: In the greater life part of it, it made me think of one of my favorite movies, “Fight Club.” When he's like “It's only when we lose everything that we can gain everything."

Erica: Oh my God. I got to roll my eyes so hard.

Kenrya: Don't roll your eyes at me. Whatever.

Erica: But no. I get it.

Kenrya: Whatever.

Erica: Once you let go of the veneer keeping everything together that's when you are truly, truly free.

Kenrya: Able to fully engage, yeah.

Erica: Yeah, and so, this chapter was Mys, right?

Kenrya: Yes. Mys narrates.

Erica: Yeah, this chapter was Mys and she said, "Performance went out the window."

Kenrya: They.

Erica: They said, "Performance went out the window."

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: And I thought that was so true. Again, it goes back to this vulnerability. I truly believe that ... So, I think about this, when I'm having sex with someone I got a little gut.

Kenrya: Who doesn't?

Erica: It's a cute little baby gut. So, I don't mind it. But you know how you look at porn and everybody got like these flat stomachs and is so cute.

Kenrya: No. No.

Erica: Well, no.

Kenrya: Not the porn I watch.

Erica: I like amateur porn. So, yeah. But you know like professional porn everybody got these flat toned bodies?

Kenrya: Yeah, yeah.

Erica: And you're like, "Hm. This ain't really how it work," because one if you doing good breathing that stomach is going in and out.

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: And so, I think about that when I think about like good sex versus really good sex. Like you really have to like-

Kenrya: Abandon.

Erica: ... be vulnerable and abandon like just even the ideas of like how my body looks, you know?

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: You really just have to like let it go and, to me, that's when it truly gets good because you're like, "Fuck it. We are just here to have a good time."

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Not worried about you judging me. I'm not judging you.

Erica: Exact. I mean how you going to judge somebody when you just had your whole face in their asshole?

Kenrya: Right. It's so crazy and I think that then sometimes we forget like I can't think of a time when I've ever in real-time been judging somebody. Okay, I can think of one time where I was judging somebody but I wasn't judging their body. I was judging the fact that they were jackhammering into me. But I've never been having sex and been judging someone's body ever.

Erica: And you were probably judging that they were more like, "You just really clueless about what's happening."

Kenrya: Yeah, he wasn't at all tuned into what my body was saying or he was just hammering away. But I can't say that I've ever been thinking, "Oh, this person's got a gut or...." No. I'm like let me put this in my mouth.

Erica: Because by the time I'm here, I want this. I want you.

Kenrya: Yeah. See I'm probably kissing on that gut.

Erica: I might have judged you before we got to this point but those judgments weren't hard enough to keep you from getting this pussy.

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: So, yeah.

Kenrya: So, why am I worried about you judging me when it's the furthest thing from my mind?

Erica: But we do.

Kenrya: Yeah. Absolutely.

Erica: You know, like I think about when I was younger and I struggled with, not only physical vulnerability but emotional vulnerability. You know, when I lost my fucks I just really, things became so much better-

Kenrya: It's so much better and easier.

Erica: ... because you're free, because I think that I judge people ... I don't judge people as much anymore. I feel like I'm getting much closer to being like judgment-free of people. Like you do your thing. I'm not saying that I don't do it completely, but-

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). But you're intentional about, you know ...

Erica: About not judging people.

Kenrya: Yeah. I get it. Same.

Erica: You know?

Kenrya: And I redirect myself. I catch myself. I'll be like, "Bitch, stop." Literally, I will say that to myself. Like, "Don't do this."

Erica: Yeah, because you probably doing some shit somebody else judging.

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: And that don't feel good. You know? But when I freed myself of fucks, life became sweeter. Nectar became sweeter. Dicks became harder and pussies juicier.

Kenrya: Well, there you go. What more can you ask for?

Erica: So, yeah, when you lose yourself of that judgment and you stop judging yourself and stop judging people life is just so much easier but I think I struggle with judging people so harshly because I was judging myself. And that was one of the things that I said I'm letting go for 2019, is just I am freeing myself of judgment.

Kenrya: 2019 or 2020?

Erica: Letting go in 2019 for 2020.

Kenrya: For 2020, gotcha.

Erica: I am freeing myself of judgment and judging people. Judging myself, you know? And I think it starts with judging myself because once I stopped judging myself so harshly, that's the first person I care about the most, I'm going to stop judging other people. And I think also, that makes me a better mother because I think a lot of time, I mean this goes back to codependency, a lot of times you're so harsh on your kid because you are fearful of how people judge you as a parent or judge your child. So, letting go of that judgment heightens my vulnerability and makes just sex and life so much better.

Kenrya: Yeah. Which is why it was pretty key right at the beginning of the excerpt that she wrote, Mys is like something, maybe "I'm dizzy with vulnerability"? And that really resonated with me.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: Yeah?

Erica: Yeah. Because to be stripped bare of if like ... because it's an armor. It holds you up. When you don't have that vulnerability you are like the insides of a crustacean. Good and jelly-like.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: I have the most random ...

Kenrya: You do. But they're always illustrative.

Erica: Yeah. So, bitch, anal play.

Kenrya: Oh, yeah. I was like ...

Erica: I loved it.

Kenrya: And I loved that there was the consent, the barely perceptible nod. Like they waited to make sure that Zyr said, "Okay."

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: And then did it.

Erica: He liked it.

Kenrya: And then tapped that button ...

Erica: He pushed the button. Tap, tap, to the tap.

Kenrya: Yeah. And he liked it. I wish more men would say okay.

Erica: You know, I have a partner that just is so willing to try new things.

Kenrya: Yes?

Erica: And that, in and of itself, is a turn on.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: Like being willing to like, you know, I got my box of stuff and I pull something out. I'm like, "You okay with this?" "All right, let's try it." And you can tell he is freaking out like, "What the fuck?" But he let's go and it is like, I think that's part of why the sex is so great because it is truly an experience. We are truly like learning and exploring.

Kenrya: Right, because even if he was like, "Yeah, that's not for me." Y'all tried it and he was willing to trust you enough to try it.

Erica: Yes.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: Yes, because what's really big, I have a note here the biggest thing about this scene is that Mys was able to trust her partners and surrender.

Kenrya: Their partners.

Erica: Their partners. Y'all I am so sorry. I'm working on it. And I truly hate that it's habit. So, Mys was able to trust their partners and surrender to them. Which for their first time in their life had them experience this joy and this physical just, oh.

Kenrya: Connection, right?

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: Like yeah, okay, sex is bodies and sweat and fluids and slapping. But when is his best for me?

Erica: At one point they said that this was their first time being desired simply for being or something.

Kenrya: Not for like what they could give.

Erica: I can't, I got to, I'll find it. But it was just so beautifully written because they've spent their entire life in this body that they thought no one would want or no one would understand and appreciate. But they trust their partners enough to really say, "Okay, I'm going to try this and trust that you're not going to hurt me or have me in some crazy situation." And they were truly able to just enjoy and let go and yes, it was a physical greatness but it was also for the first time something emotional where they were able to really connect with some people. So, it was beautiful. Have you had an experience where you were like the kombucha girl?

Kenrya: Yeah, mm, hmm. Okay. Huh? I don't know. I mean probably anal.

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: I mean I was really afraid of it. And the first time I did it was bad and it was because I didn't really want to do it. It was more that I was being pressured into it. And I said, yes to get that nigga off my back. But then when I had anal with a partner where he, one knew what he was doing, and like prepped me. You know, like made me come first, you know all the things that we've talked about on previous episodes about making it easier, and quite honestly, had a penis that was a better fit for anal sex and that's not a bad thing at all. It was like, "Oh. Bitch, this is possible."

Erica: And you trusted it, as you trust that partner wasn't going to hurt you.

Kenrya: Absolutely. Yeah. And so, it absolutely went from something that I had a tiny bit of trepidation about, because my past experience hadn't been great, to something that I really enjoyed. What about you?

Erica: I think maybe it was my first threesome. Well, no not my first threesome. But it was a first threesome that I truly enjoyed. And it was because I was with a partner that I didn't feel ... So, I feel like when you're a woman that is queer and enjoys having sex with other women, like I enjoy having sex with other women. More in the setting of a threesome. Like I doubt that I would have like a mini one on one experience but I mean that's Erica speaking today. It might change. I find that men find that out, I think I've said this before, men find that out and they're like, "Oh, great. We doing a threesome next week."

Kenrya: Right, they fetishsize you.

Erica: Exactly.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: And it's like, "Eh, let's not go there." If this is something we're going do, we're going do it and I want to but it's not like don't introduce me to every girlfriend like, "Hey, is she an option?"

Erica: So, my first threesome that got me hooked was in a situation I was with a partner and he was on some like, "We're going to do this because we want to do this." And so, I was able to trust him in this process and open up and feel like he's not like recording this in his mind so he can play it back later on or like, "Oh, I got her. Now, I get to do this threesome with these two hot chicks." But it was just once, I'm like I care for you. I want you to have this experience and I want to experience it too. Let's do it together. And so, it was like a really good experience because we're these three people having this amazing time together but I didn't feel like I was being used or got. You know?

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: It was just we're all here having a good time. But I had to trust that my partner was willing and open to just letting that happen.

Kenrya: Right, in your previous experiences because you said that was the first one where you felt that way, was that not the case in your previous experiences?

Erica: I enjoyed the threesomes. But how we got to them were like ... Yeah, I felt like, "This nigga just trying to like set some shit up." You know? Like this is something that he probably always wanted to do and so that's why also like I'm picky about who I have threesomes with because it's just, this isn't a win for you. I mean, well, if you fuck me maybe it's a win. But you know like this isn't something that you're like, "Oh."

Kenrya: I'm not just doing you for you.

Erica: Yeah, or like this was something I'm checking off on my bucket list. When we have sex I want you to be as concerned or more concerned about me getting mine than you are getting yours. I love worship. I love you to want. You know like want to be with me. You know, like all that shit. And so, I want you to look at, if you're having a threesome with me I want you to be like, "Oh, I'm giving Erica this amazing gift." You know?

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: And not on some like, "Oh, I get to have a threesome."

Kenrya: Got her!

Erica: You know?

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: That kind of thing. No one wants to feel like they're being used.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: I mean, I love being used.

Kenrya: I mean some people, mother says, some people do and if they're like maybe, you know, that's some people's kink.

Erica: Yeah, but you know, I don't feel like I'm being exploited to get this threesome.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: Especially when, and I say this all the time, especially when if you just have a good conversation with me, nine times out of ten, I'm going to be down for that shit.

Kenrya: Right.

Erica: Like, cheating. Like, Dawg, don't cheat on me.

Kenrya: Right. Like, don't do this.

Erica: Nine times out of ten, you're going to have a better time if you tell me this what you're trying to do because I was like, "Hey, hey. Let's do this." You know? I got some good ideas. I read books.

Kenrya: You do read books.

Erica: When they were having sex, y'all know I love to talk shit when I'm having sex. I like to talk. I like to hear. I can talk a nigga into coming. Like that is, I am good.

Kenrya: Hm, wow. That's a fucking skill.

Erica: I talk. I talk shit. So, I loved while they were having sex, Zyr was praising Aurie.

Kenrya: Yeah, that was great.

Erica: Oh. It's was just so great.

Kenrya: Well, and so Aurie's 19 when she dies?

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: Zyr is 26. I don't know how old ...

Erica: Mys is.

Kenrya: Yeah. Do you?

Erica: No. I don't.

Kenrya: Okay.

Erica: But they seem like they're all on the younger side of the-

Kenrya: Around the ... yeah.

Erica: ... on the younger side of the world.

Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't a big enough gap in there that it felt-

Erica: Creepy.

Kenrya: ... creepy or anything, yeah. But if Aurie was like, "Can you show me?" And it was like, "Oh, okay." There's some teaching and some learning and whatnot going on here.

Erica: And this excerpt you say you touched on it earlier but this excerpt shows a lot. It makes communication and consent really sexy.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: Like this excerpt really shows how sexy and normal consent and communication can be during sex. And I think that people joke or get pissed and like, "You can't do nothing. You got to ..." You know, I think that's there is a way to sexily ask somebody if I can stick my finger your butt.

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: And it don't have to be ...

Kenrya: "Can I stick my finger your butt?"

Erica: "Hello, can I stick my finger up your butt?" You know, like they were able to make consent and communication very sexy and I wish that things like this was ... Well, I feel like it's written a lot in what we read, but I wish it was depicted more in mainstream media, to give people ideas of how ...

Kenrya: Yeah, like you never see that it in the movies. Yeah, rom-coms is always like somebody grabbing somebody's head and kissing them lustily.

Erica: Which works great in rom-coms or when you're feeling everybody. But if you're not?

Kenrya: But it shouldn't because there's no asking.

Erica: But if you're not or you're unsure or like men are fucking clueless.

Kenrya: I'm sorry.

Erica: What?

Kenrya: So, I was thinking about rom-coms and about people grabbing people and remembered the time that somebody grabbed me in the middle of Times Square, that white dude grabbed me in the middle of Times Square and kissed me in my mouth. And I ran away.

Erica: Yeah. I would probably have the same ... That's a good rom-com reaction.

Kenrya: I was so freaked out. Like you don't get to just put your tongue in my mouth. There was zero consent and nothing to let you think that it was okay.

Erica: But, I don't want to say in his defense but in his defense, he's probably a clueless man that has grown up thinking that women want this shit because they see it in rom-coms, can't catch on to clues.

Kenrya: And so, I ran downstairs and onto a platform and onto a train.

Erica: Yeah. And that ain't how you do it. And so, I wish that it was more seeing how to ask for consent and how to ... You know, like I think it's so sexy when I see something and someone leans in and is like, "Can I kiss you?"

Kenrya: Yeah.

Erica: Oh, my God. That is so sexy. And so, the only time we talk about, not the only time but so often when I see people talk about consent it's in this very formal or "You have to do it this way."

Kenrya: It was also, I think illustrative of the fact that consent doesn't stop at the point that you like start.

Erica: Yes. Yeah.

Kenrya: So, I literally just had this experience. I wanted to put a vibrator in a spot, not in a spot, but on a spot and I asked. We were already having sex, I was like, "Can I try something?" "Okay." Just a little vibrator to the balls. But I asked because I didn't want him to freak out. You know?

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: And it doesn't stop just because you've been having sex with somebody for months and months or years and years or whatever. Like you still need to ask even in the act about adding new things into the pot. Don't just stick a dick in somebody's mouth without asking.

Erica: Yeah, unless you have an-

Kenrya: Understanding.

Erica: ... and agreement that you can stick your dick in my mouth without asking.

Kenrya: Exactly.

Erica: There are few people walking this earth that have that agreement including that fine ass, Trevante Rhodes.

Kenrya: Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Erica: Trevante, sir, this is your permission slip.

Kenrya: I was just looking at those pictures again of him in his underwear?

Erica: Oh, my God. Is it Calvin Klein?

Kenrya: The Calvin Klein, yes, Lord.

Erica: Mm.

Kenrya: Just pretty teeth.

Erica: The Lord knew what he was doing when he put that man together. Is he trash?

Kenrya: I don't think so? I follow him on something and I've never ... You know, he posts a lot of poetry and stuff on IG. I haven't seen anything trash.

Erica: It he hotep?

Kenrya: I don't think so.

Erica: Well, if you are, I'd-

Kenrya: You could still ...

Erica: ... I'd still do you. I just wouldn't have no babies by you. Well, I might?

Kenrya: Or any conversations?

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: No, you don't. No. No, babies with hoteps, boo.

Erica: Oh, yeah. I was going to say but-

Kenrya: Nope. It has lasting implications.

Erica: It does, it does. And we will leave that out for the editor's notes.

Kenrya: Oh, I don't give a shit. Who got fucks? Not me.

Erica: You know what? We're free of fucks. Man, ran on my last fuck. Speaking of fucks, would you fuck a ghost? Or a werewolf? Because this whole scene is one person fucking a ghost and a werewolf.

Kenrya: Right, yeah.

Erica: Would you fuck a ghost or a werewolf?

Kenrya: Well, we talked about this in the first season, talking about fucking werecats.

Erica: Oh, I did ask, "Would you fuck a werecat?"

Kenrya: I mean, I don't see why not?

Erica: Yeah.

Kenrya: I mean I will say that I am most comfortable with human forms. So, the fact that this werewolf was in a human form I feel like I am not into bestiality. It's not my thing.

Erica: If you're fucking me and your back turned furry, we going to have a problem.

Kenrya: Yeah. I think that would be tough for me. But just the fact that he can shift and that he is a werewolf it's not a deterrent because he's fine.

Erica: There's a part in the book later where he turns into a werewolf in front of them and Aurie is like, "Well, gird my loins." And I'm like, "Oh, yeah." I mean yeah, I don't think I want to fuck in werewolf form but to know that you can. It's kind of like when you see him like, "Oh."

Kenrya: Because it's a possibility. Yeah, it's like the ferocity that's just under the ... Ferocity, that's just under the surface. But then he's also described as like, what does he have? So, his family's from India because he says that he sometimes breaks into Punjab when he's cussing.

Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kenrya: So, people don't know what he's saying. And then he's got like hazel eyes and clear skin and I'm just like. "Okay."

Erica: Oh, he fine as hell. I don't mind this man. In my mind everybody's fine. Everybody's fine. But they're older. Also, like the idea of like me doing with a 19-year-old. Not at all.

Kenrya: No, thank you.

Erica: But like in my mind-

Kenrya: Yeah, that's true. I did make them older in my head.

Erica: ... Aurie is fine. In my mind, Mys is just mm.

Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Erica: The things I'd do to you, Mys. And, Zyr, like you all want another one in this group?

Kenrya: Right, and Mys does burlesque. I mean we didn't even talk about, you know ...

Erica: Yeah. Mys is just like fucking dope. In their condo, their apartment, dope.

Kenrya: Yes. Yeah, if you know how to find it.

Erica: It is just a great story. Just great details. The way things overlap and get into. It's just, oh, just amazing. Last question, not sex-related. Do you believe in ghosts?

Kenrya: I do. Yeah.

Erica: Okay.

Kenrya: I believe that the people who we love never really leave us, and that they are around us all the time. And that doesn't frighten me because they love us. They don't want to harm us. They just want to see how we're doing and help us out sometimes.

Kenrya: I remember when my daughter was really young, like really young, I had like certain spots in the house where I would nurse her and I would remember I would always sit in my bed, on my side of the bed, and there was a corner and she would always look up in that corner and laugh. Like would be on the boob and I'm talking a couple of weeks old, would pop off of the boob and be fucking cracking up, looking up in that corner. We lived there until she was eight months old, and there's not a day that I can think of that she didn't look up there and laugh. And she didn't do it when we were sitting. It wasn't like she was tickled by breastfeeding because she never did it when we're sitting in the living room. It was always in that spot. And I was convinced that one of her great grannies or somebody was up there fucking with her and she thought that shit was hilarious.

Kenrya: It's the reason that I sage spaces besides just folk's energy. You never know who may still be lingering, who was a person of somebody else, and that's cool but I don't want you here with me because you don't love me. So, I don't know what you mean for me. Even when I moved into the place where I live now, the first night that I slept there I felt somebody like shake my toe. And I woke up and I looked around. I didn't see anything. But it was very distinct. I was a little freaked out. But also, like, "Ah, you know, there's something to do for this. It's fine." I got some sage and burned it and it was fine. And we do that periodically, especially as people come in and out of the house. If we have people doing service work.

Erica: Yeah, the energy they have. Uh-huh (affirmative).

Kenrya: You never know what folks are bringing with them. What they're energy’s off, or if sometimes they bring really bad energy and I do it as soon as they leave. Because I believe it's not just the energy but who we carry with us. So, yeah. I do. But I'm not afraid.

Erica: Yeah. I think the older I get and the more people that are very dear to me pass on I have no choice but to, for many reasons. One, I have so many important people that have passed on and so many things have happened to me. Y'all, we going to have a crazy season because I'll probably be sharing things later on. But you can't tell me I ain't got somebody up there looking out for me.

Kenrya: That's right.

Erica: I mean, in addition to God. But he got a whole lot of people and I got somebody special with him on the main line. So, yeah, like I am convinced that my granny and my mamma are here and they look out for me and protect me, and guide me and keep me safe from harm. So, yeah. I totally believe that there are ghosts. I just hope that when it's my time to go that I make it on the other end and I'm not trapped in this fucked up world.

Kenrya: Yeah. In this book, she's trapped. But for them, I just think it's like they're visiting. So, I lost someone really close to me when I was in my 20s and I remember being on the couch and just feeling him. He was there. I smelled him. That was the first thing. It just all of a sudden the room was just permeated with like, you know, everybody's got their smell. Like their deodorant, their toothpaste. Like the smells that make up them. And he was just there. He just was and I was like, "Hey, I see that you're here. I'm so glad you visited." I was still grieving. And I think that that's why he came. But I believed that they pop in and they pop out.

Erica: Yeah, no, I totally, totally agree. Okay, well, before we start crying.

Kenrya: I know.

Erica: On this sad note, I know I'm about to start crying. Before we start crying I will close this out again by saying this is just a really good book. I recommend y'all pick it up. Read the whole thing. There are lots of really great erotic scenes in it. But also, just a really good book by a really great Black author.

Kenrya: Yeah, it's well written. It's funny. It's familiar but also not.

Erica: Yeah. Oh, I do not do paranormal. I do not do murder mysteries. I don't do any ... Can you all tell? I like nigga shit. But this book just has me unable to put it down. So, thank you for joining us. Thank you for listening to us go on and on about our dead folks that we carry with us. Thank you for letting us talk about consent and what that looks like and how we love some good, "Can I stick my finger in your booty?" As opposed to just sticking it there.

Kenrya: We do. Yeah. It makes everything better.

Erica: It does.

Kenrya: So, with that said, that's this week's episode of The Turn On. So, it's Erica and Kenrya, two hoes ...

Erica & Kenrya: Making it clap.

Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. We want to hear from y'all. Send your book recommendations and all the burning sex and related questions that you want us to answer to TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com. Please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod, and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast and find links to books, transcripts, guests info, and other fun stuff at theturnonpodcast.com. And remember, The Turn On Podcast is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more podcasts that you'll love at Frolic.media/podcasts. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you soon. Bye.