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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya read "A Private Affair" by A.C. Arthur and talk about the universality of pooping, crystal pussy Twitter, not pathologizing lack of sexual desire, what our parents taught us about love and the narcissistic urge to rewrite history.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: Hey, y'all. Welcome back to this week's episode of The Turn On. Today we are reading “A Private Affair,” which was written by AC Arthur. So sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, whatever you need, and enjoy.
Kenrya: “A Private Affair” by AC Arthur.
Kenrya: Her fingers shook only slightly as she grabbed the waist of his sweatpants. He took another step closer, and Riley pushed the pants down past his hips. She didn't bother pushing the boxers down, but instead reached her hand inside the opening and grabbed his dick.
Kenrya: "That's it, baby. Take what you want." His words were raspy and sounded dirty. She liked them.
Kenrya: Riley scooted her butt to the edge of the couch, spreading her legs, so that Chaz was now standing between them. She jerked her hand from the base of his length to the tip, watching hungrily as her fingers moved over the silky dark skin. Her mouth watered, and she dipped her head, extended her tongue and took her first taste.
Kenrya: She owned a penthouse in Manhattan, a Lamborghini, had a trust fund she hadn't touched a penny of yet, and thanks to her budding career and smart investments, became a millionaire years ago, at the age of 25. But nothing she'd accomplished up to this point in her life had given Riley the surge of power she felt with Chaz's dick in her mouth. With her throat muscles relaxed, she took in his full length. Hollowing her cheeks, she sucked while her tongue licked the bottom of the shaft.
Kenrya: One hand was still at the base of his dick, holding him in place, while the other fondled his heavy sack. Her eyes were closed as she worked her mouth over him while the sound of his guttural moans, and the feel of his fingers raking over her scalp, pushing away the band that held her hair, rang like music to her ears.
Kenrya: He pulled back and pumped into her mouth with slow movements that almost seemed painful, if the sound of his grunts were any indication. But the way he held her head so tight to him and the slight tremble in his thighs, when she held him deep in her throat, made Riley feel as if she were flying, soaring, actually over the entire world that had read Walt's stupid article and believed every word about her being frigid and experienced in the bedroom.
Kenrya: "Damn, your freaking mouth," his words were punctuated with deep breaths and loud exhales. "Your sweet, hot, little mouth."
Kenrya: Riley let her lip slide over his dick as she pulled back slowly. He wrapped her hair around his fingers and gripped tighter, trying to keep her from releasing him completely. That wasn't her plan. Instead, she flicked her tongue over the crest of his, easing into the slit that ripped sugar drops of his precum. He hissed, sucking air through clenched teeth as his head fell back on his shoulders.
Kenrya: Riley had looked up just in time to see the moment of surrender in this infamous, sophisticated billionaire. Triumph was like a nightcap, and they hadn't even experienced a full meal yet. She knew the moment Chaz had reached his breaking point, when just as she sucked him in deep again and tighten her mouth around him, he released her head and stepped back from her hastily.
Kenrya: "Take off your clothes," he grumbled as he pulled his shirt up and over his head in a matter of seconds.
Kenrya: Riley didn't bother being offended by his command. She could still be in control of this interlude. When she was naked, she stood. Chaz had just finished removing his shoes and was taking the condom out of his wallet before tossing the wallet onto the table and pushing his pants and boxers down and off.
Kenrya: He must have replenished his condom stash when he went to his room, because the two left over from last night were still on a nightstand in the bedroom. This one Chaz held between his teeth while he removed the rest of his clothes.
Kenrya: Riley stepped forward, snapping the packet away from him. She tore it open and removed the latex so that when he stood gloriously naked in front of her, she quickly sheathed him.
Kenrya: "This is what you want?" It was a question he didn't give her a chance to answer, because, before Riley could speak, Chaz wrapped an arm around her waist and pulled her against his chest. She tilted her head to stare up at him and he bent down to meet her, crashing his lips over hers and taking a brutally hot kiss. Tongues, teeth, and moans, mixed and Ming while naked bodies pressed together in the middle of the living room in a luxury Milan hotel. This could have been a scene in a movie, a tawdry sex flick, not the romantic comedies they'd been watching all day.
Kenrya: He lifted her off the floor, wrapping her legs around his waist while his mouth still worked over hers. Riley wrapped her arms tightly around his neck as Chaz moved them back to the couch. She wasn't thinking of anything now, besides how good his kisses were, and how the taste of him were forever being emblazoned in her mind and when he sat on the couch, holding her close in his lap, Riley eagerly pulled away from his mouth. She dropped her hands between their bodies and grabbed his cock while lifting her body to position herself over him.
Kenrya: "Now," she breathed the single word just as the tip of his dick touched her wet opening.
Kenrya: "Whatever you want," he replied, before taking her nipple between his teeth for a quick suck.
Kenrya: Riley gasped and slammed down onto him. He filled her completely, snugly, but comfortably. It took her a couple of seconds to let the pleasure of his presence inside ripple up her spine and spread throughout her body. Then she was riding coming up on her knees and rotating her hips in a rhythm that once again had Chaz gasping and murmuring something about her lips, her tightness, and how much he enjoyed all of the above.
Kenrya: She marveled in the words, let them wash over her with the unmitigated pleasure sex with him was bringing her. He matched her rhythm, cupping her butt tightly, and licking her breasts as she arched over him.
Kenrya: Riley was definitely soaring now, but this time it was over puffy white clouds that lulled her into a place where only pleasure existed. She bounced over him knowing that it could all only get better from this point.
Kenrya: "Yes, Riley, take everything you want. Let go, take it all." He gave her permission and she took it and more until her release crashed over her, splintering her into a million pieces that scattered over sweet blissful cloud.
Kenrya: Text copyright 2020 by Artist C. Author, permission to read text grants by Harlequin Enterprises ULC.
Erica: Okay. Y'all so welcome back. Thank you, Kenrya, for reading that excerpt from “A Private Affair” by AC Arthur.
Kenrya: It's kicking your ass, ain't it?
Erica: It is kicking my ass, AC Arthur. Thank you for reading that excerpt. So what's the deal, what happened in this book?
Kenrya: So it opens on New Year's Eve in Milan, and there's these... I know, that's like very much what I find myself doing throughout this book, because it's these very wealthy people. Well, it's really... Well, we'll talk about that.
Erica: I love rich Black folk by the way.
Kenrya: Yeah, it's cute. So they, our two stars, are the heads, kind of, of rival fashion houses. One of them is, how am I blanking on names, and I literally just read the shit, Riley, she is the chief marketing officer at her family's fashion house. And then Chaz is a tech billionaire, but he also like a consulting officer at his uncle's fashion house. And the two houses, the heads of the houses used to work together, but there's competing stories about why they broke up. But the short of it is they don't fuck with each other, and so it started this like feud between the two families.
Kenrya: And so the two of them really don't know much about each other, except for Chaz is infatuated with Riley, and he doesn't really know why, he's drawn to her. And so they're at this party on new year's in Milan. And he basically is like, "Spend 24 hours with me," and she's attracted to him, but she's also like leery because of their family shit. But she also trying to fuck, so she says, "Okay."
Kenrya: Things go on longer than 24 hours. It develops into a what? A private affair, and a whole bunch of shit happens along the way, as they deal with what it means to work in the fashion world, and what it means to be members of these family-run businesses and try to balance what is happening in their relationship and how much they want to happen and how much they don't want to happen, so high jinks. You're on mute.
Erica: No idea why that happened. Yes, okay, so high jinks ensue. One of the things you find out very early, very, very early on, like first fucking paragraph of the book is that Riley is known as a ice queen. These are rich, rich folks, these are rich, rich, well-known folks. So not only are they rich, but they business everywhere. And Riley is known as an ice queen. It's all in the tabloids. She's an ice queen. She never lets anyone in her circle, and that kind of thing.
Erica: We find out later in the book that her story was made to be that by someone in her circle, that was just like, "I can't have you, I'm going to make you look like in front of the world," correct?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And not that she... Answer this, I don't think she necessarily leaned into it, but didn't go out of her way to stop it, correct?
Kenrya: Well, it's interesting. I think that in her effort to then keep her business to herself, because she didn't want it to be used against her, that she then came off as icy, but it was really a self-protection type of a thing. So it wasn't necessarily that she was leaning into it. She was just trying to protect herself. But also the other part of that ice princess thing was that, that nigga said that she was frigid in bed, which was another thing that... Yeah.
Erica: So as I was reading this, every time they talked about ice princess, I was just like, "This is some like patriarchal bullshit," right?
Erica: I could not get past that part of it all, because it's like, she's just trying to mind her fucking business, and stay out the fucking paper. But she's then labeled as an ice queen.
Kenrya: And what the fuck does that mean? Not wanting to fuck somebody doesn't mean that you are... I don't know, and does it matter? So what if you don't want to fuck? Why is that used as a negative thing? And that is really how she's painted. Like, ooh, she don't want nobody to touch her or something wrong with her. Well, it's a lot of motherfuckers that don't want nobody to touch them.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. This made me think, I remember when we were in school, I think I said it on here before, people have approached me and was like, "I thought you were really mean." And I'm like, "Me?" But I think it's more, when I'm unsure, I shut up, I clam up. I just don't say shit. And once I'm comfortable, I mean, it don't take a lot for me to get comfortable, once I'm comfortable, then all bets are off. But I think it's one of those things, where it's like, one thing is, I'm just trying to protect myself, but it's being read as something completely different, you know?
Erica: I'm going to hate even bringing this up, I would've never put this on the 2021 bingo card for The Turn On podcast. But anyway, I was watching “Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,” Kathy Hilton is on, is a guest on there. Kathy and then her sister, Kyle Richards is a long-time housewife. And Garcelle Beauvais, whatever, she is a housewife. And so-
Kenrya: Is she?
Erica: Yeah. She's the one Black housewife. There's so much racist shit that goes on in there. But, anyway, so she's the one Black housewife. And a lot of times she just says what's on her mind. And so she was talking to Kathy and she was like, "Oh my God. I remember I went to an event with your daughter, and I thought she was so stuck up because she sat on her phone the entire time." It was like a show or something. And Kathy was like, "No, she has like crippling anxiety. And so being on her phone keeps her from having to deal with everything that's-"
Kenrya: Interacting, yeah.
Erica: Yeah. And I was like, "Wow, see." Yeah. Yeah. So it's one of those things where, okay, don't necessarily judge a book by its cover or what you think is going on, because it's only the tip of the iceberg and there's probably a bunch of other shit happening underneath. So, yeah, ice queen, I hate that terminology. Anytime I hear ice queen, I'm thinking someone said this because they want to-
Kenrya: They want something from you that you don't want to give.
Erica: Is ever ice queen, is there ever a, "Well, let's hear it out, okay, it's valid"? Is there ever a time in life?
Kenrya: Not even with Elsa.
Erica: Yeah. I don't understand that movie, but, yeah.
Kenrya: There's lots of people who get that reference.
Erica: My ass. But, yeah, I just feel like it's one of those things where it's like... And never on any world is ice queen ever something where you could be like, okay... Jerk, kids are jerks.
Kenrya: Yes they are.
Erica: All kids are jerks, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Yes, it could be seen-
Erica: ... as a derogatory term. However, no, kids are jerks because that is what they're supposed to do. They come out of the womb and they need to worry about self. They need to be selfish little bastards. It helps them form-
Kenrya: Keeps them alive.
Erica: ... into who they need to be as adults. But, yeah, they're fucking jerks.
Kenrya: Yes. I have to remind myself so often, oh, right, there's this age, every time a kid is a jerk.
Erica: Girl, I'm like, "Oh, yeah." Okay, so her ex spreading rumors, because he was a piece of shit and then felt like he needed to make her look crazy in the world.
Kenrya: I've been there.
Erica: What'd you say?
Kenrya: I said, I've been there.
Erica: Ooh, do tell.
Kenrya: Oh, there's only so much I can say. I'll say this, narcissists like to recreate reality. So if they don't like the way that things have played out, the common theme is that they'll just make up another way that it happened, that puts them in the hero position or the victim position, and makes the person who broke away from their narcissist spell look bad. I have experienced it in a really acute way around retellings of my divorce. I mean the great thing, at least in my case, is by the time that happened, I didn't care.
Kenrya: And of course the best way to deal with a narcissist to pay them dust. So getting upset about a narcissist's the reinvention of the facts it's really pointless, but it is a thing that I have absolutely dealt with. And I kept wanting Riley to get to that point where she didn't give a fuck about the fact that this dude had lied on her. But I could also get having it thrown in your face by reporters and seen-
Kenrya: ... on tabloids, how that would wear on you, regardless of what you knew to be true.
Erica: Yeah. There could be like exes out there telling stories, but-
Kenrya: Nigga, it’s strangers telling stories, remember?
Erica: Oh, yeah.
Kenrya: We haven't shared that.
Erica: That's the only thing that I thought about and I'm was just like, all right, whatever nigga.
Kenrya: Wait, can we share that in a general way?
Erica: So someone that I was involved with called me and said that they overheard someone else, DC is only but so big, and I host a podcast where I talk about my pussy weekly, so that makes it even smaller. So he said he overheard some people talking about us and about me and my previous relationships and how I said certain things about this person, and it was just fucked up. And I was just like... So he approached me about it and I appreciate that he said something, because I'm like, "All right, I'm glad you felt that you could come talk to me about it as opposed to who just being like, 'Ah, that bitch.'"
Kenrya: Staying in it and being upset. Yeah, over some shit-
Kenrya: ... that wasn't even true.
Erica: Exactly. So he asked me about it and I was just like, "No." I was like, I talk about relationships on the show, and niggas like to talk and for all types of and everybody going to put a little sauce on something to make the story go down even better, and even spicier."
Kenrya: Oh, for me, niggas like to lie on their dicks.
Erica: Niggas love to lie on their dicks. So, yeah, it was one of them things. And more than anything, I value the relationship I have with that person. And so it was just kind of like, "Okay, it sucks that this got to you, this lie got to you, but at the same time, I'm glad we were in a place where you could pull me aside and be like, 'Yo, what's good?'" But all that to say-
Kenrya: That sucks that that had to happen.
Erica: ... niggas like to talk.
Kenrya: Whoever you are-
Erica: Fuck you, suck a dick. Well, no, sucking dick is actually kind of-
Kenrya: That's not a punishment.
Erica: Suck a musty dick. That's a punishment.
Kenrya: Taste and smell.
Erica: Yeah. Suck dick. And thinking about what was said, I don't think this person even listens to the show. I think it's more, might have heard a clip here, clip there, start-
Kenrya: That is so weird.
Erica: Yeah. But whatever, again-
Kenrya: It's so very weird.
Erica: ... niggas like to talk and lie on their dicks. And lie on other niggas dicks. Because that was also part of it, it was like they was lying on somebody else's dick, and I'm just like, "Okay." Yeah. Look at all these rumors surrounding me every day.
Kenrya: Oh that's the title of this episode, isn't it?
Erica: Oh, I was going to do “So Icy,” but-
Kenrya: Oh, because they got money-
Erica: And she's the ice queen.
Kenrya: Oh yeah. Okay, yeah. That's it.
Erica: Ooh, these hoes excited, girl you know you like it. I'm so icy. That man was singing out. My chain hangs down to my dick-
Kenrya: With his whole heart.
Erica: ... with his whole, like the depth of his... He was singing for his ancestors, about how his chain hangs down to his dick. So anyway, okay, one of the things that I thought about was, there was a scene in this, and I'm jumping all around, but there was a scene in the story where Riley and Chaz are out and they're like going to get something to eat. And so Chaz is like, "Let's go get some greasy shit." And Riley's like, "Oh, yeah, I like it." And he was like, "You?" And then he was like, wait, yeah, you are a person. I didn't say, "Let's get some crazy shit. Let's-“
Kenrya: It was like pizza.
Erica: Yeah. And he was just like, "I would've never thought you eat pizza. But then, again, you're a person, who doesn't eat pizza?" And I wrote here, we all put on our pants one leg at a time, and then the way that I think about these things, we all shit.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative), everybody poops, that's what we say in my house.
Erica: Everybody has to poop. Everybody, even Beyoncé sits on a toilet and poops.
Kenrya: Everybody poops. We had a song about it.
Erica: And... You do?
Kenrya: Yeah. I made it up when I was trying to get the kid to start using the potty.
Erica: Oh, okay.
Kenrya: Everybody poops, everybody poops. Yes, it's a classic.
Erica: It's a classic in the household. But, yeah, and so it's one of those things where it's like, okay, no matter how mundane you think your life is, everybody has to do certain mundane tasks, and they got to do it for them self.
Kenrya: Yeah. You can't hire somebody to poop for you.
Erica: Even if you got somebody putting your pants on for you, them motherfuckers go on one leg at a time. You ain't levitating to them bitches. Everybody's shitting. Everybody's going to have a situation where they sitting on toilet sweating, they have shit coming out, right?
Erica: But it also makes me think about, and this kind of goes back to what we touched on in another episode, where you see someone, you're infatuated with someone from a distance and then you see them up close, and you're like-
Kenrya: Oh yeah.
Erica: ... "I don't know about that," right?
Kenrya: Yeah. And the stories we create around people who we don't even know yet, and then the expectations we attach to those, right?
Erica: Yeah. Which, also, I think, we've touched on it before, but someone was like, "When you meet somebody on an app, get the off the app and get in real person as soon as possible." And actually I like that Hinge has this feature now where you can record voice memos. Yeah.
Kenrya: That's cool. Like it's on your profile already, or you can send it after you connect.
Erica: Yeah. No, it's on your profile already.
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Erica: And I like it because you get an idea of how their voice sounds, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And so, it's actually not bad.
Kenrya: Have you swiped left on anyone because of what their voice sounded like?
Erica: I'm in a weird place right now with like relationships. So I'm not-
Kenrya: You're not swiping.
Erica: ... swiping much, but this one guy, actually, I'm not even going to do it, because he actually seems like a good little... Hold on, let me match with him before I like... How do I fucking... Okay, match with him? Okay. So let me go do a little swiping to see who got... Oh, here's one, oh, how to pronounce my name, nevermind. Dammit.
Kenrya: You can't play it. So-
Erica: Yes I can.
Kenrya: Not on the show, boo.
Erica: They do that on TikTok all the time.
Kenrya: But this is-
Erica: Okay. Anyway, I sure was about to play that shit, but whatever. So yeah, I like it, because you get a sense of their voice, and, yeah, you get a little more feel of them. But I have had situations where I met people, I mean, shit, you and African Santa. Like you meet somebody and you're like, "Oh, this person is cool. All right. All right." And then you meet in person, you're like, "Not so much."
Kenrya: Right, right. But you know I met African Santa in person. It was just-
Erica: No, it was another guy. It was another guy that kind of catfished you.
Kenrya: Twice. I was just talking to my father about that. So I was asking him who he was watching on TV, and he was like, he said, "Oh, I was looking at MTV, but I just switched over to such and such." I was like, "What the fuck do you watch on MTV?" He was like, "I watch what all the young people watch." Just like that, because that's what my daddy sound like. And I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "Well, you know that ‘Ridiculous,’ whatever show." And so then we had a whole conversation about how I can't watch that. And then he said, "He also watches ‘Catfish,’" and he was telling me about his favorite episodes. Which one of them, apparently, is a chick who thought she was talking to Bow Wow, but she was not, she was talking to another chick. Oh, fine. [crosstalk 00:28:07]-
Erica: That was early. That was early. That was early, early “Catfish.” That was when Rolling Ray-
Kenrya: I ain't never seen it.
Erica: ... was still on... Rolling Ray, that's how-
Kenrya: Rolling Ray was on-
Erica: He was on “Catfish.” That's how he like-
Kenrya: I didn't know. Somebody posted a video, of a carousel-
Erica: I'm literally getting Zeus Network right now, so that I can watch that show. I love it.
Kenrya: Well, I don't know what this clip was from, but it was very much what you are always doing to show me that it's like Rolling Ray. And I was like, "Oh, this is exactly what Erica's always talking about."
Erica: Yeah. He did this, so there's this show on Zeus, which is like a $3.99 a month subscription network. And it is, if reality TV and Instagram were actual magazines, and you cut them out, and there were like the pages that fall to the floor, like the scraps and little bits and that kind of shit. And you sweep that shit up and make it into a network, that is Zeus.
Erica: I had it when I was recovering from my mastectomy, because-
Kenrya: Oh, that's cool, because y'all were watching-
Erica: We were watching trash. We were watching-
Kenrya: Something with people in a house.
Erica: We were literally mainlining trash. It was like, inject that into my veins. So there's this new show called “The Talk” or “The Conversation” or whatever, and then they take like two reality people and they put them in a room-
Kenrya: I saw the clip.
Erica: ... and they can talk to one another. And so Bobby Lytes and Rolling Ray have one together.
Kenrya: I was like, who the fuck is Bobby Lytes? And why are they beefing so hard?
Erica: Again, again, again, if “Love & Hip Hop” was a magazine, “Love & Hip Hop Miami” is like a page, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And on that page, it's Trick Daddy and Trina and Amara La Negra, and then on the edge of the page, it's like Bobby Lytes. And you're trying to cut out the picture of Trina. So you got to picture of Trina, and then Bobby Lytes falls to the floor, and you're like, you know what?
Kenrya: We going to give him a show.
Erica: We got to sweep some shit up. And then somebody going through like, "Oh, shit, this ain't half bad. Let's make a show."
Erica: And that is it. So, yeah, I'm about to get it. Pay my $2.99, $3.99, so I can get it for the month so that I can watch all the trash they have, niggas I didn't even know was beefing. And the idea is to sit down and talk. It started with Princess and Ray Jay, but now they're like executive producers of the show. So I'm kind like, I thought y'all was divorced, whatever, neither here nor there. So how the fuck did we get here?
Kenrya: Wait, I was talking about talking to my daddy about “Catfish,” catfishing.
Erica: Oh, right.
Kenrya: And so then we started talking about apps and I was explaining to him that it has happened to me, kind of, a couple of times. It was the one nigga whose pictures were 20 years old, at least. And then it was a dude who was probably a couple hundred pounds over what he was in his photo, which was not the issue. The issue with him was the same issue with the old nigga, who was also still attractive.
Erica: You lied.
Kenrya: You lied.
Erica: You fucking lied. It's just that simple.
Kenrya: Just don't lie.
Erica: Yeah. Because I actually might have fucked with you, had you just been honest.
Kenrya: Great guy, except, well, it was the lying and then he ain't have no boundaries with his family, at all. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. Catfishing, again-
Erica: ... not sure how we got there, but, all right. Okay, question, would you rather have fame or fortune?
Erica: All day. All day.
Kenrya: I mean, I love all y'all, but I don't need-
Erica: I don't need y'all.
Kenrya: ... to be known.
Erica: I mean-
Kenrya: I don't need-
Erica: ... yes, I do need y'all, but, you know?
Kenrya: Yeah. But I'm not interested in people interrupting me while I eat or talking to me in general. And that doesn't mean if y'all see me, you shouldn't say hello, as long as you have on a mask and you stay far away. But it does mean that if I had to choose, I would rather have money.
Kenrya: Hands down.
Erica: I'd love to be anonymous and rich.
Kenrya: I was on Twitter last week, some white dude like filmed himself finding out that he won a million dollars in a lottery.
Erica: Fuck that.
Kenrya: And somebody was like, "When I tell you that this would never happen when Black people."
Erica: Never. Never. My family would-
Kenrya: Y'all would never know.
Erica: ... just getting money.
Kenrya: You would just be getting money and not know where the fuck he was getting money from.
Erica: And don't ask questions, it's legal.
Kenrya: Exactly. That's it. That's all you need to know.
Erica: And the people that fucks with me, going to know to shut the fuck up. She said it's legal, all right.
Erica: ... that.
Kenrya: Yeah. It's no, no, mm-hmm (negative), no contest.
Erica: Okay. So there was a scene where Riley started, no, Chaz came to Riley's house and saw what looked like a paperweight.
Kenrya: Yeah. On the mantle or some shit.
Erica: It was a crystal dildo.
Kenrya: It was.
Erica: And it's so interesting, because I believe in all that shit, I believe in sex magic, I believe in crystals, all that shit. And so I was like, "Ooh, she's crystal pussy Twitter."
Kenrya: I knew you were going to say that, when I read it.
Erica: Crystal pussy Twitter. Yeah. But I think that that's really interesting, because I don't know if it's maybe just because of the space that I am in personally or if this is just happening more, but I feel like more people are leaning into non-traditional Christian, not nontraditional, non-Christian spirituality. And recognizing that this shit is a mosaic, mosaic, mosaic of energy and spirits and different forces and that kind of thing. And so I thought that was really dope that she mentioned it. And then she was like, "I use it to meditate." He was like, "Meditate?"
Kenrya: I thought it was dope, especially, and they don't talk about religion at all, but to your point, that folks are realizing that it doesn't have to be an either or proposition. You can pray to God and you can thank Jesus, and you can have crystals charging on your window sill.
Erica: Because let's be for real, let's remember that the Bible was written by somebody, and so they was quick to... because look, let tell you, when I'm writing the story of my life, some shit going to get left on the table or left on in the trash.
Kenrya: That don't fit the narrative. Exactly.
Erica: It don't fit the narrative that I'm selling. And crystals and all that work, it just didn't fit the narrative that these white dudes that was building the Bible felt like it needed to. So I thought that was really dope. And I actually have done meditations, masturbation with like intentions and that kind of thing. Because they say it's like power and all this shit. I could probably explain it a little better if my brain was working, which it is not right now.
Erica: But, yeah, there's power in having orgasms and putting that sexual energy towards manifesting certain things you want in your life. And I think it's really interesting, once you start looking at it, because again, you can't tell me that the moon don't affect us. When the moon can fucking pull bodies of water to high and low tide, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: You're thinking I'm just walking around here impenetrable from the moon and it's energy, me thinks not. Methinks not. So yeah, I actually really liked it. And because she was just a regular ass, not regular, but she was just a chick that was really successful in business, and this was another tool in her arsenal to make sure that she was living and feeling good.
Kenrya: Well, and she also talked about something that I think does make her a regular chick. She was saying, when she told him what she did it for, she left out a couple of things and one of them was confidence. And there was a lot of her inner kind of monologue about how she had really suffered from low self-esteem for years. And she finally came to her own, but she still has imposter syndrome. She still suffers from a lack of confidence in a lot of ways. And so the facade that she puts up is that she's always trying to project that, but that this is one of the practices that she use is in order to attract that to herself.
Erica: Whew. So one of the things that I'm working on right now, actually, I'll be doing it later today, with my business, I have a business coach. And one of her things that she presses on us to do, I mean, we're working on how to close a sale, how to sell yourself, how to properly market your product and explain what you do, and do niggas really need to know what the fuck you do? They just want to know what the results they're going to get, that kind of stuff. One of the things that she presses upon us is to brag on yourself, post, talk about your shit, that kind of thing. It is so difficult for me to do this shit.
Kenrya: You just did a really nice post on LinkedIn. I was like, "Look at you, tooting your horn."
Erica: Because I have to, I have to, and I hate it. Hate it. And I probably would've gotten out of doing it, but someone else was in the room while I was doing the coaching call, and they heard me commit to doing this.
Kenrya: And held your ass accountable.
Erica: And so they hit me up like, where's your post today? So something else that I had to commit to was going live. I hate that shit. I struggle with it for fucking-
Kenrya: For the show.
Erica: ... The Turn On podcast, which is something I love and adore, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: And I mean, I love what I'm doing, but, yeah, it is... I am trying. I am trying.
Kenrya: So I will say this, when I'm in book promotion season, like when I have a project to promote, you know how much I hate that shit. I'm doing podcasts. I'm doing book events. I'm doing whatever. One thing that I realized during my last book tour, which was a year ago, was that you have to find the ways of doing that that feel good to you. So expanding your platform, yes, but finding the ways to do it that feel good, and drawing boundaries around the ways that don't.
Kenrya: And so I know for me, some of the things that folks were pushing me to do, literally, would push me to anxiety attack, like doing live, not even just live TV, but doing the live TV sucks, but also doing taped segments for like national TV. That kind of shit, pushes me to panic attack state. And after a couple of times of doing that in that last cycle, I just was like, "You know what, I'm not doing this anymore. It's off the table." Because it wasn't worth how shitty it made me feel, for whatever boost we thought it was going to give. And so just want to encourage you to do some thinking around what feels good in your body.
Erica: Yeah. And that's what I'm doing. Like I said, I got to go live, and I'm going live on Facebook in that particular group, so it's not like I'm going live broadcasting to the masses. And it's more, right now, just for me to see if this is something that I'm comfortable with. I don't want to give anything a no, until I say like, "Okay, I've honestly tried it."
Erica: But like my LinkedIn post yesterday, I can do more of those, right? Because it was-
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: ... yeah, it happened. And so, yeah, I'm trying to figure out what works best for me and also what works best for my industry. Because I do recognize that some of the stuff, I'm like, "These people don't give a fuck about this." And, again, it's a great program, because she was like, "Okay, so let's sit down and figure what works for you." So she's super committed to tailoring everything to your particular situation.
Erica: But, yeah, I committed to it because it was... And look, let me not even act like I got to go live for a long time, three minutes max.
Kenrya: It don't matter, it's still a thing that you have to do. And that gives you time, like you said, you get to feel how that feels.
Erica: Yeah. So, actually, I'm going to do that when I finish this up. But yeah, the confidence thing is just, oh. And it's funny, because I do this all the time and I have no problem doing it.
Kenrya: Because you have control, is what I came to realize. I'm like, none of this is... I'm never nervous before we do anything with the show, because-.
Erica: Because we can edit that shit out.
Kenrya: ... we control that shit. Yeah. I'm literally sitting here-
Erica: 7:35 mark, I'm cutting that shit out. Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Right. My finger's on the fucking button, so I don't care. But that's the other part of it too, what I realized was that, so say going on podcasts, I realized that there were some shows that I felt more anxiety about than others. It's because they are people who I didn't really want to talk to or I didn't really trust their audiences or whatever. And so I just stopped doing those shits. I'm no longer doing interviews where white people are asking me to explain things.
Kenrya: I don't like them. I don't trust how they're going to use my information and clips of me after, so I just don't do them anymore.
Erica: Yeah. No, I totally dig it. It's so wild, because like you think about, you hit the nail on the head, you see people and you're like, "Oh my goodness. They're so amazing. They have it all. They have all the confidence." And you're like, mm-hmm (negative). One good conversation, they're like, "No, this shit... It scares me too, but I do it."
Erica: Okay, oh meditation. I can't meditate.
Erica: I mean, yeah, it's hard for... I have to be very like incremental in my meditation. I can't just sit and meditate for like minutes and hours, no. I'm like, "30 seconds, we are going to visualize an apple. You made it to 30. Okay. Let's do another 15." I-
Kenrya: I think that's a good approach though.
Erica: Yeah. Just biting off what you can, I guess, right?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I struggle with meditating on my own, I prefer guided meditation. It helps me to stay more in the present moment than if I'm just on my own. Also, I'm finding, because of my autonomic dysfunction, I have trouble bringing my body to a calm state, oftentimes. Particularly, when I lie down in the middle of the day, either I fall right asleep, which is most of the time. But then there are some times where I have to lay down, because my body can't be upright anymore. But it's like it's on coffee, so-
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative), everything's buzzing.
Kenrya: ... everything is... mm-hmm (affirmative). And so, whereas I used to use those opportunities to meditate, which often is a prayer for me, I have a lot of trouble being able to calm my heart rate down enough, my breathing down enough to be able to really get into that space.
Kenrya: And so what I find sometimes helps is just listening to super calming music or there's this song that was crafted specific for like folks with anxiety, and I mean, it helps with that, but also I find that it helps with this parasympathetic-sympathetic issue that I have. It's called “Weightless.” And there's a 10-hour long version of it, but there's also a short... So I'll just put that on and let it go. I use it when I'm at acupuncture trying to calm down on the table or when I'm in the middle of the day, and we can link to that. And it's like scientifically backed to help people calm down.
Kenrya: And I hum, which can activate your vagus nerve and kind of soothe you down a bit. And I find that that can help me to fall closer into a meditative state, when I'm struggling to calm down enough to do it. So maybe one of those will help.
Erica: When I was on my 40th birthday vacation, I was at this resort and there was this area, it was the weirdest little space to even sit at, but I found myself sitting out there listening to books on tape. And I just happened to take a picture of it. And that seat, that space is where I always take myself back to when I have to calm down.
Erica: Because one of the things I'm dealing with is blood pressure, my blood pressure, it's not high, it's elevated. And so I've talked to my doctor about it and I was like, "I don't know." And she's like, "We don't need to put you on medicine, because it's not so high. If you're on medicine, it's going to take it too low." So whenever I go in, I sit there, close my eyes, and I'm sitting right there, back at that resort, looking out over this fountain, ocean in the background. I see the tree. I feel the breeze, that kind of thing. So yeah-
Kenrya: I love that.
Erica: ... I need more of those vacations. I need more.
Kenrya: You have something to draw on.
Erica: Yeah, I need more to draw on, but, yeah.
Kenrya: Also, though, has she told you to see a cardiologist yet?
Erica: No. Should I be-
Kenrya: No, I'm not saying that because you should be concerned, I'm saying because there are some tools that can help with just a slight drop. So I take a beta blocker, not because my blood pressure is high, but because I have heart palpitations. But the effect is the same, it brings your blood pressure down slightly, and there's no side effects like a low dose.
Erica: Girl I'm on so many fucking the drugs right now, but-
Kenrya: Listen, I understand.
Erica: I was, you know how they tell you to bring in a list your medicines and stuff? I literally had to like lay them all out on the bed and just take like this picture. I was-
Kenrya: I take pictures. Yes.
Erica: ... this is-
Kenrya: Me too.
Erica: ... what I take, because writing shit... Yeah.
Kenrya: Ooh, I just downloaded an app that somebody mentioned like a Twitter thread for organizing, because I also have trouble with my morning and evening meds I'm great about taking, but my middle of the day, sometimes I forget. And then I can set an alarm, but then I don't remember what the alarm was for when it goes off. So it just don't have happen. But it's also a good resource for being like, "Here this is what I take, just look at my phone. Here are the dosages. This is..." Yeah, so I'll send that to you. It's also occurring to me and this is a little off topic, but I think I should, I said before that, when I figured out what I had, that I would share and I haven't done that. But we've talked around it, but I haven't actually-
Erica: A lot.
Kenrya: ... said it. So, hey folks, I have something called myalgic encephalomyelitis, which is commonly referred to as chronic fatigue syndrome. But I, and most people who have it, really actually hate that term, because it makes it sound like you just fucking tired and that ain't it. But so it basically means, my analogy is that, you know how old iPhones the batteries all fucked up my body, isn't old an iPhone. It never really charges above 50%, and it doesn't hold a charge. And so I am usually operating on fucking fumes. But beyond that, I also have trouble sitting up for very long, because I have something called POTS, it's orthostatic intolerance, so it basically means my body wants to lay down.
Kenrya: Blood does not do a very good job moving around my body. It doesn't reach my brain the way that it should, which means that I am often dizzy and nauseated and I have brain fog, which makes it hard for me to remember things. I can't stand for very long, so cooking and standing up to put on lotion, standing up to brush my teeth, all of those things that I used to do without thinking, I literally cannot do anymore. Or if I do, then I end up with something called a crash, which is like the huge thing in this condition, where if you push yourself, and when I say push myself, I mean, stand up too fast or try to talk while come up the stairs, I can put myself into a crash state where I can't physically wake up, and get up for 24 or 48 hours.
Kenrya: It fucking sucks, I am slowly finding doctors and resources and support groups and all of that kind of shit. But a lot of it has just been coming, figuring out what it means to be me with a new set of abilities. So that's that, that's what's happening, but I'm all right.
Erica: So let me tell y'all now, motherfuckers, I've said many a times that Kenrya is the one that keeps this shit operating regularly, and I am trying my best, will try my best to respect my co-host’s wishes. If some shit start going spotty, y'all mind y'all business, and know we'll be back. Okay. Thank you. Please and thank you.
Erica: But, yeah, so I'm just happy that we have a diagnosis. We know what we're dealing with. We know what monster we're fighting, but now, for me, the thing is, how do we fight this monster? How do we make sure that you are happy and healthy and doing well, and giving you the support you need? So I tell you this shit all the time. I ain't going to start crying, so-
Kenrya: No, no, no, we all right.
Erica: Okay. Okay. Last thing, one of the things you sent, because we sent notes to each other about books and stuff, one of the things that Kenrya sent was, what we learn from our parents. Did you say about love or just [crosstalk 00:53:47]- oh,
Kenrya: Uh, I mean, I think I was thinking about love, but, yeah, either way.
Erica: Yeah. So what's one thing that stands out to you that you learned from either of your parents about love?
Kenrya: Ooh, oh, God. Okay, I won't identify which parent. One of my parents taught me that it is better to get along than to advocate for yourself.
Erica: I know which parent that was.
Kenrya: Yeah. And that conflict is inherently confrontational, and so you should avoid it at all costs. I had to learn that that was bullshit the hard way. Now I can't go back.
Erica: So my mother's passed away, so I feel like I can share a little bit more. So my mother and my father met when my mother was super young, not super young, but she was pretty green when she met my dad, and he died very shortly into their marriage. She was able to produce four little children and then he passed away. And one of the things I remember my mom told me, and it stuck with me and it stuck with me for a very long time, mom was like, "I love your dad too much, and so God took him away from me." She was like, "I love him more than God, and so God got jealous and took him away from me." Maybe not those words, but kind of those words.
Kenrya: But essentially that. Oh, my God.
Erica: And that, I didn't even realize how hard it like stuck with me until I was in therapy. And I remember I said that to our therapist, and she was like, "What?" And I lived with that shit for a really long time. And I think it affected how I went into relationships and how I loved. And I always looked at love as a temporary thing as a... I mean on one hand, yes, life can change, we literally just talked about this shit, life can change on a dime. People could be here and not. But it was less of a take advantage of the world, while it's here, and more of a don't get attached to these niggas, because they about to leave kind of thing.
Erica: So, yeah, lots of therapy and a bitch made it through, but it also makes me very careful about how... because I mean, if my mom was here and I told her, she said that she might not even remember it.
Kenrya: When I tell you that every time I have told my parents about some fucked up shit they said to me, "Oh, what?" They never say, well, no, sometimes they say they didn't say that, but most of the time, "I don't remember saying that."
Erica: Yeah. And so it makes me try to be more conscientious about what I say around my kid. But, also, it also makes me realize that he going to have his interpretation of shit. He's going to have his interpretation of shit. So all I can do is make sure that he has the tools and resources in place, so that when he has his interpretation, be it correct, factual or not, he's able to deal with da, da, da, da, that comes from it.
Kenrya: I mean, yes, sure. But that's not all you can do. You can also do the first thing that you said, which is being really intentional about the shit that you say to him and that you say around him.
Erica: Oh, definitely, definitely. But I mean, I-
Kenrya: I'm thinking those two things go hand in hand.
Erica: I was talking to a homeboy and he was telling me how his son had said some shit, and he was like, "I had to look at this nigga, like, ‘No, nigga, that's not how you were brought up.’" It was on some struggle shit, like, “I had a struggle.” And his daddy was like, "No, nigga, and I can show you pictures of what you said you didn't have."
Kenrya: You never went to bed hungry.
Erica: Yeah. "I ain't never been to Disney World. My parents ain't never take me on vacation." He's like, "Nigga, three, six, nine, these are pictures from you holding Mickey Mouse's hand." So that's what I mean.
Erica: And there will be things that he going just flat out be like, "You did this," and I might have to be like, "Did I?" Or I mean like if I hit on some like I'll remember doing it, I'll definitely be like, "I don't remember doing that-
Kenrya: “But that don't mean I didn't.”
Erica: ... but I apologize." Right?
Kenrya: Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: But, yeah.
Kenrya: Which is powerful, and I don't think enough people finish that sentence that way.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. Because it's perception, right?
Kenrya: Intent and impact. Yeah.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. So, whew, girl, going through this as a parent, I mean, going through raising a kid really makes you dig up the shit you were subjected to as a child.
Kenrya: Yes. For better or for worse.
Erica: This kind of reminds me of what Jacqueline said when we were interviewing her, when she was talking about caring for her mother, she was like, "This is just reflective of the shit she put me through." I mean, and she's a caring caregiver. She cares for her mother very well. And it's just like, that shit going to come back around. And sometimes it ain't so pretty when you receiving the same shit you dished out. You know?
Kenrya: Yeah. No, shit.
Erica: Yeah. So, but, okay. That's all I got. You got anything, boo?
Kenrya: Nah, I think that's it. I mean, I guess just that it was interesting being in this space with these people who have so much fucking money.
Erica: Yeah. They're like, “Just take my car.”
Kenrya: Right. You got a-
Erica: And not like-
Kenrya: ... driver, who like-
Erica: ... borrow my beater, my Honda Civic to like run around the corner. No, this is-
Kenrya: "My driver will take you home."
Erica: Exactly. A real car with a driver, not a fucking beater.
Kenrya: Right. Like, "I have a two-story penthouse with floor to ceiling windows and views of Manhattan." And that shit was wild. It was an interesting.. I'm like, oh, I don't know this life. They very casually-
Erica: An interesting peek behind the curtain.
Kenrya: Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: Well, all right, that's all I got. You got anything else for us?
Kenrya: Nope. That's it.
Erica: Alrighty. So we will be back with our segment,
Kenrya: What's turning us on.
Erica: You got to just say it again. Just say it.
Kenrya: Oh, okay. What's turning us on?
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Erica: Okay. Y'all so we are back with what's turning us on. And one of the things we talk about a lot when we're just talking about sex and fucking, is that a lot of times people are hesitant to share their desires and kinks and all of that with their partner, for fear of being judged or looked at as creepy and freaky, and that kind of shit.
Erica: I got to tell you a story, when this is over. So-
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Erica: ... I found this website, it is called, We Should Try It and it's at WeShouldTryIt.com. And it's an online questionnaire for couples, so what you do, partner one, they log on, I mean, they go to the website, so you both do it on the same device. So partner one goes to the device and there's a list of question, and it's like, do you want to do bondage? Do you want to try anal? Do you want to try edging? Let's try this. Let's try this. And you list what you're interested in exploring. Hand your laptop to your partner, and they do the same thing. And then it spits out a report, and the report shows what the both of you have in common. So you can be comfortable to say, "Hey, I really want to try water sports," without your partner being like, "Ew," because your partner might want to try it.
Erica: And then y'all look at each other and be like, "Did we become best friends?" Or it don't show up on their part, and you're like, "I wasn't that interested anyway." So I think it's a really dope website. I think it'll allow couples to kind of get a little bit more open and understanding about new things.
Kenrya: That's what a pearl necklace is, I thought that was something else. Sorry. I'm like-
Erica: You didn't know what a pearl necklace is?
Kenrya: I thought it was something else.
Erica: What did you think it was?
Kenrya: Like sucker bites.
Erica: No, it's when they skeet on your chest. Because there was an episode of Sex in the City, where Samantha was like, "I got a pearl necklace on a private plane."
Kenrya: Nigga, did not know what that meant. I thought it was like a bunch of sucker bites, I never knew what it meant.
Erica: Anyway, but anyway.
Kenrya: Okay, I ain't... No comment.
Erica: I've been gifted a few pearl necklaces in my life.
Kenrya: I'm like, didn't even know it. Didn't even know it.
Erica: So, yeah, WeShouldTryIt.com give it a try. It's cute. It's fun.
Kenrya: It is cute.
Erica: I feel like it's a great activity for couples.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, I would, of course argue that if you can't have these conversations with somebody, then maybe you should not be having sex with them.
Erica: But, also, there are-
Erica: ... things here that you might not have thought of.
Kenrya: And that's what I was about to say. It could spark some cool ideas. I'm like, "Oh my partner and I could do this." Because this shit would be fun just to like go through it and see, "Oh, we never did that before." So I think it'd be fun in that respect, too, so I'm actually looking forward to using it. It'll be cute.
Erica: Yep. So, all right, that's it. This is your two favorite hoe hosts, Erica and Killa, two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode.
Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com.
Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions.
Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen.
Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla.
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In this episode of The Turn On, Erica and Kenrya talk to Jodie Slaughter about celebrity crushes, writing embarrassing fanfic, Affrilachians and finding our way back when anxiety takes us down.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Kenrya: Today we're talking to Jodie Slaughter, pronoun she and her. Jodie is a 20-something romance author who spends most of her days hunched over a computer for her day job and her nights hunched over a different computer for her novels. While her back is definitely suffering, she wouldn't have it any other way. She loves love so she writes romance novels full of heart, passion and heat. When she isn't putting steamy scenes or declarations of devotion on the page, she can normally be found being generally hilarious on Twitter, dreaming about brisket or watching way too much television. Y’all are fools. Hi, Jodie. Thank you for joining us today!
Jodie Slaughter: Hi.
Kenrya: What y’all can't see is that—listeners, what y'all can't see is that E has decided that she wants to try to fuck me up on the intros.
Jodie Slaughter: You held out for so long, though.
Kenrya: I did.
Jodie Slaughter: You held out for so long.
Kenrya: I did. I did. I'm proud of myself. I'm going to pat myself on the back there.
Erica: You always fuck up the two hos.
Kenrya: I'm patting myself.
Erica: She's just-
Kenrya: Because she was trying so hard to throw me off my square. Whatever. Terrible.
Erica: Anyway. So-
Kenrya: Terrible, whatever. Thank you for coming on with us today.
Jodie Slaughter: Thank you for having me.
Erica: Jodie, thank you so much for joining us. I fucking loved your book. This was a book that Kenrya... We both pick books and so this was a Kenrya pick, and sometimes her picks be... They're good, but it'd be like, "This ain't my shit."
Jodie Slaughter: That's shady, but okay.
Erica: This was my shit.
Kenrya: It is so shady. It's so so shady.
Erica: It's not shady. I'm just saying. You like wizards and demons and people with little horns coming out of her head and I be like...
Kenrya: I like everything.
Erica: She's a fantasy gal.
Jodie Slaughter: Is it monster-focused? I understand.
Kenrya: I like genre! Yeah, I'll do it. I like regular... I like more straight stuff too, but I do like to bring in some good genre shit.
Erica: You do!
Kenrya: It keeps it interesting.
Erica: And when you pick it, I'm always like, "I didn't think..." I say this often, "I didn't think I'd like it, but I really fucking loved it."
Erica: This was one of those books that... I always tell my son, "Readers are leaders." I'm not a reader, and I host a literary podcast. But, anyway, I was drawn to it constantly like, "What's going on? What's about to happen?" So, bitch, kudos.
Jodie Slaughter: Thank you so much!
Erica: Thank you.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm so glad y’all liked it!
Kenrya: Yes, loved it.
Erica: Okay. So now that I'm done, all that...
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, I'm sucking it in. I'm sucking it in.
Erica: We're going to love on you.
Kenrya: Yes, take it all. That's what we do. If we don't do shit else but talk about therapy and dicks, we also love our people.
Erica: Therapy, dicks and we worship Black women.
Jodie Slaughter: Two of my favorite things! Three of my favorite things in the world! [crosstalk 00:03:04]
Erica: Those are my favorite things. When a dick's big, and my therapist is Black, and I'm reading books… (singing).
Jodie Slaughter: We need a Spotify link for that.
Erica: Some of my favorite things. Then I don't feel so bad. (Singing.)
Jodie Slaughter: So bad. Bam, that's absolutely it, that's it.
Kenrya: Yeah, you just bastardized one of my favorite musicals. We watch it on Thanksgiving every year, but we cut it off before the Nazis come, so my daughter doesn't know that that part happens. She thinks that they get married and then the movie's over. It's going to stay that way for quite some time.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, you know what I mean?
Erica: She about to be fucked up. She's going to be like 15 years old, like "What, mama!"
Kenrya: It's long as fuck, so by the time we get to the wedding, I'm ready to move on to “The Wiz.” We start there and then we do “The Wiz”, and then we wrap up.
Jodie Slaughter: “The Wiz” is scary!
Kenrya: So we don't do the movie, we do... Remember when NBC did “The Wiz Live!”?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: It's so good.
Jodie Slaughter: It is.
Kenrya: So we switch, we move on to “The Wiz” and it's a good way to end the night. Yo, her fucking voice. Word to Amber. Right?
Jodie Slaughter: Love of my life, Amber Riley, is in that. Love of my life.
Erica: Her voice is like-
Jodie Slaughter: She is just an... Let me not because I could talk about that woman, everything about her. I'm just like Heart Eyes McGee.
Kenrya: Yeas, the best part of “Glee.” I love musicals, yes.
Jodie Slaughter: The only part worse was... Anyway.
Kenrya: I'm a musical freak. So yeah, like “Glee” was my shit, but I can't go back like because Lea Michele.
Jodie Slaughter: No you can't. And that cast is cursed, fucking cursed. I don't know what kind of seance Ryan Murphy was doing, what kind of deals? It's real dark.
Kenrya: There's so any of them.
Jodie Slaughter: And it's devastating. And I know, I get it. You can clap.
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. But so I do sometimes. I'll just pull up like YouTube clips of her songs, like “Smash Your Windows.” Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: Her “Disco Inferno” is like one of my favorites. I live it. Yes.
Kenrya: She just... I was listening to... Okay. Anyway. Sorry.
Erica: We've already digressed.
Jodie Slaughter: Amber Riley, I love you. Call me. We could get together. I can really open you up, like new experiences, new things.
Erica: Oh my God. Yes, I love it. I love it. Okay. Well, other than stanning for Amber Riley, what did little Jodie want to do when she grew up?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh Lord. The first thing I can remember, I wanted to be a doctor because my correlation was that I really actually enjoyed going to a doctor when I was a kid a lot. Something about it was very comforting for me. I was a chubby kid. As I got older, and I stayed chubby, that became less comforting.
Kenrya: Yeah, because they're fucking assholes about weight especially with Black women.
Jodie Slaughter: Absolutely. And then I also realized that I did not focus school. I wasn't about to-
Erica: It's like I was the getting talking about.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, if I could just wear the stethoscope and not going to be like, "Oh" then I would maybe.
Erica: We can play operation on Thursdays.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, absolutely. But, I think I was probably about 12 when I realized that wasn't going to be an option for me. And after that, to be honest, I tried my hardest not to think about it because I was just like, "I don't know."
Erica: Oh, that's a good strategy.
Jodie Slaughter: [crosstalk 00:06:35] Yeah, I was just like, "Don't know."
Kenrya: Is it?
Erica: For me it would be because I think I spent so much time obsessing about like, "I don't know what I'm going to be when I grow up. I don't know what I want to do." And so I think I would have just let the world lead me.
Jodie Slaughter: Well, I kind of did. I mean, for a while... I say this and people are always like, "No, don't say that." But, I'm like, I'm not good at things. I can't sing. I'm relatively smart, and I was a pretty good student, but I'm not genius level. I don't particularly enjoy school. I can't play an instrument. I tried to play the clarinet for a little while, and the literal music teacher was like, "Girl, no." But, I've always had this incredible imagination, and I've always been very good at writing.
Erica: I was about to say bitch. I was about to comment in the stop. You doing good.
Jodie Slaughter: That's always been sort of the only thing. But, when I was young, I didn't know anybody who was a writer. I have a family full of all kinds of... We got a million hairdressers, a doctor, a lawyer, woman who works at old folks’ home. From the perspective of a young person, every career, I knew somebody. I didn't know anybody who was like, "I'm a writer and I can feed my family off of this and not whatever." I also I realized that that was maybe fiction. So when I was an older teenager, I was like, "Okay, maybe I'll go into like journalism." And that's kind of what I did for a while, more in the realm of content creation, stuff like that. That's a long drawn out answer to say like, [crosstalk 00:08:33] "I don't know."
Erica: I don't fucking know.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, pretty much.
Erica: You're on mute.
Kenrya: I am. Sorry. I had a whole last conversation with myself. So what I said was you're right. It's interesting because being a writer is not a thing that's held up as a viable career choice like any more than any other type of artists, right?
Jodie Slaughter: Not at all.
Kenrya: It's not. That's what I do for a living. I am a writer. That's all I do. And this podcast. Yes. I do this podcast too, but whatever.
Erica: We do that for a living.
Jodie Slaughter: Y’all live.
Kenrya: Do we?
Erica: But we do it. The “for a living” part is silent.
Jodie Slaughter: Soon come, soon come.
Kenrya: Exactly. But, it wasn't something that I ever saw. And in fact, when I was younger, I wanted to be a PR person because I figured I could make money at that. So that's what I did for a while because it was presented to me as a viable career where I could get into a job somewhere and make a living and not be living off the back of my creativity because nobody told me that that was the thing that I could do.
Jodie Slaughter: That's absolutely it. I went into for a long time making pennies at content farms, that type of thing.
Kenrya: $30 for a fucking thousand-word articles and shit. Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: And having to do work like 12 hours a day every day so that I can pay my bills, like a grown person. And I was like, "I guess I'm kind of living the dream." You know what I mean? In some ways, yeah I don't, but this is not... I knew that it wasn't the type of writing I wanted to be doing. And then I had gotten this actual real journalism job. I got laid off from that because that's how digital media works.
Kenrya: It's volatile.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Well, I'm 26 now. So when this happened, I was like 24. And I was like, "Okay, well now it's time to like work. I need something that is going to be secure." Because one of my biggest fears was like not having money to pay. I didn't want to be on the street. I didn't want to have to count pennies in my hand every time I went to the grocery store. You know how when you are... Varying degrees of growing up in terms of money, was super fluctuating. There would be times, and it would be... I hate to say that it was embarrassing, but when you're at the grocery store with your mom, and she's like, "Okay, we're going [crosstalk 00:11:22] to put on the aisle first. Yes. We're going to put this on the conveyor belt first."
Kenrya: Yeah. Put some shit back. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Prioritize.
Jodie Slaughter: And then she would be like, "Tell me when it gets to this, and we'll stop. And that's it." It was so stressful. I didn't want to have that be my life. So the only thing I was focused on was like, "All right, I need to like whatever." I knew, I liked English. I was like, "I'll go back to school. I'll get a master's degree. I'll teach. Fine." That's not the way you should go about being a teacher.
Kenrya: So much of growing up in a scarcity situation, which I to relate to, is that when you become an adult, you make a lot of decisions because of scarcity.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, absolutely.
Kenrya: You worry that the opportunities, that the money that they will vanish. That they will not be there when you need them. So you grasp onto the things that come your way because you don't want to fucking drown because you didn't grab onto the fucking lifeboat.
Jodie Slaughter: That's absolutely it. You stay places that are awful for you. It's bad. I grew up, like I said, it was varying degrees. A large part of my childhood, I did not worry about money actually because of my grandparents. My mother's parents, were kind of like-
Erica: It was like I don't need nobody saying... Right.
Jodie Slaughter: My mother's parents were more upperish middle-class. My grandmother was a hairdresser, and she was pretty successful. My grandfather was like one of the first real Black engineers at IBM. They did well. We were with them for a lot of my childhood. But, when I was in my mid-teens, my grandmother got sick. She was a hairdresser, she didn't have any insurance. My grandfather had already retired, so he didn't really either. That ate up a lot of that money. That was like the first time I experienced like, "No, you can't go to the movies because we literally don't have $10 for you." And then post that a little bit is when we struggled a little more. So it's varying degrees but...
Erica: You still remember it.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, I still remember it. And I definitely made... At that point, once I got laid from... it was my first salaried position. I was making like $45,000 a year.
Erica: But still...
Jodie Slaughter: I'm in Louisville, Kentucky, right.
Kenrya: Oh, listen, bitch.
Erica: Yeah, you was doing good.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, I was doing great. And it was terrifying to realize how shaky that all is. And I was like, "What's the most secure thing I can think of that I know I can do. I like English, I'll teach English." You never hear about teachers getting laid off, which is bullshit. But, you know. And that's when I was like, "I'll do that." So I got another job in the like digital media field. And I was like, "I'll go back to school." I am so far away from the question you initially asked me.
Erica: No. This is what we like. Keep at it.
Kenrya: An organic conversation.
Jodie Slaughter: Because this kind of gets into when I...
Erica: Keep going.
Kenrya: Yeah, you good.
Jodie Slaughter: At that "point, when I had gotten this new job, I was like, "I'm going to..." I was not feeling great. So I was like, "I'm going to lean into my creative endeavors a bit more." And it was through that when I was like, "Maybe I can try to put my focus on instead of like moving in fear, I can try to go out on hope and see what happens." I mean, be smart about it. I still worked a day job, but... So yes.
Erica: But, no. I think it's so important that you shared that because I feel like that's what keeps a lot of us Black girls from pursuing that. We don't see it. We don't know that you can have a job. We're afraid, and it really is terrifying to take that step out one hope to do it. It's funny you mentioned that because I was in my basement. And I hoard cleaning products.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica: You ain't got to be so quick about it.
Jodie Slaughter: No, I've been in the apartment.
Jodie Slaughter: It sent me to the netherworld.
Kenrya: To be clear, I've benefited from her hoarding cleaning products because every time she finds cleaning wipes, she brings me one.
Erica: And I might have like a large number in my basement right now. So
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, don't tell me where you live, sis, because I'm-
Erica: That's why I'm not giving numbers because I don't need nobody coming after us. But, it's one of those things where I remember when I don't have it. So when I do, I buy it for all. I watch hoarders. That's kind of like my porn, so I don't get that bad. But, I definitely remember times where we don't have. So when I do have, I'm like, "Oh" I literally got three of those big Costco things of toilet paper in the basement because that's just my stash for when I don't have it. And beginning of this pandemic didn't fucking help because I was like, "Mm, I'm smart. I'm smart. Y’all are stupid." So it just reinforced my fuckery.
Jodie Slaughter: It reinforced it. Yeah, I do that. I do a version of that with shopping. And I mean shopping for like clothes and stuff. For a long time I just couldn't. When I was probably like 19, 20, I had two bras. I wore them down to like the... Listen because..And I got...
Erica: Girl, I'm looking at you and them things are thangin.
Jodie Slaughter: And it would get to where I would have the money, but I was struggling, and my mother was also struggling. And the only thing I could think of that's worse than me struggling is my mom and my sister. So for me, my thing was always, "I'm keeping a certain amount of money, always." Not even just my contingency, but if my mom... If something happens to her car, and I know she needs help or whatever, my sister needs something for something because my sister's seven years younger than me. That's right. So I spend any of my extra money. I would have this weird thing where all of a sudden maybe one day I'd wake up and I'd realized I'd have 200 extra dollars in my bank account and something would just happen. And I'd be like, "Okay, let me just go buy like some jeans and whatever."
Jodie Slaughter: And I still do that even though I'm not, my mother isn't, my sister isn't, all of us are very financially stable and good right now. And I still do that. I still don't shop regularly. So one day I'll look up and I'll have spent $300 on some shit I could have bought stretched out over like three months.
Erica: Over the year.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So I do. It's like poverty. It's PTSD. It's what it is.
Kenrya: It is actually. So this is definitely something that I struggle with, and I've talked about it a little bit on this show. So I co-wrote a book called “How We Fight White Supremacy.” And in it I had to write an essay about money. I could not write that fucking essay because it was unearthing too much stuff for me. It really didn't break until I talked to my therapist about it three weeks in a row because we had to have this conversation about what is my relationship with money, what is it from when I was young that is holding me back. And so much of it is that, I'm like you, we had money and then we didn't. My dad was gainfully employed and was great. And then he got laid off at a certain point. And then we didn't have insurance. We started struggling.
Kenrya: I got my first job when I was 14. I've been working since then. I didn't have a choice. And I realized that I hoard besides... One, I am finally learning to say no to things that I do not have time for, but I used to say yes to everything because I was like, "I never know when the next assignment is going to come because I am a freelancer. I'm a consultant." Down to the point where I'm literally not taking on any more work this year because I'm so busy. Yes. But it took so long to get to that point. And I'm so tired, to be clear. But beyond that, I quit my full-time job earlier this year so that I could just focus on my consulting. It felt great, but it also felt terrible. And what I realized I was doing because I hadn't worked really hard, like crazy, not sleeping to amass some savings, the most money I've ever been able to save up in my entire life. I've never been more than a paycheck away from falling apart, quite honestly.
Kenrya: And so I saved this money in preparation. I had set this goal, I got to save X amount of money to be able to quit my job because my therapist was like, "Bitch, you need a plan. You need to stop saying you're going to quit and have a plan." So I had a plan. I had this amount of money. I got the money saved up. But, then what I found is I was waiting till the last minute, every month to pay my bills. And my therapist was like, "Why are you doing that?" And I was like, "I don't know." She was like, "It's because you're hoarding your money because you don't know what's going to happen. And you're trying to hold on to it till the last possible minute."
Jodie Slaughter: The call out of knowing the power... You learn your due date before they cut it off.
Kenrya: Just how long you can wait before they cut your shit off.
Jodie Slaughter: Note the due day. Because you learn you kind of have almost an extra month to pay that shit. Listen, I get it. And even when you have money, sometimes you feel like, Girl.
Erica: No matter how much I have, I wait for the disconnection notice from AT&T. Y’all going to wait. Y’all going to get your money last.
Kenrya: But here's the thing, though. It with my anxiety to have not paid my bills. So I'm myself over because I've got this scarcity mindset from remembering when I didn't have it. And because I'm afraid to let go of this cushion that I built for myself, but I feel so much better when I do it earlier in the month. So I'm forcing myself to do that, but still so much of my reckoning with the way that I work, and the way that I spend money. Same thing with you with clothes. I actually had to budget money every month to spend on myself. That was another therapy assignment because I don't spend money on myself. I spend money on my kids. I'll buy everybody food. I do all of those things. Yeah. See somebody here benefits from that because I order for delivery for everybody.
Erica: She could be like, "Bitch, Olive Garden." And I'm like, "Bitch, you don't even eat Olive Garden." They gave me extra bread sticks.
Kenrya: But then I don't buy myself clothes or... I mean, I got my gowns, my wonderful lovely gowns. So we transitioned from calling them... exactly we call them gowns because Walter Mercado. I am no longer calling them... Mucho mucho mucho. One for every day. My partner was like, "So how long are we doing this?"
Jodie Slaughter: Probably forever.
Kenrya: I was like, "I know I can't go back. Nigga, I'm naked underneath. Don't ask no questions, just enjoy it."
Jodie Slaughter: It's literally easy access.
Kenrya: He's come around. But there's nothing underneath this thing that I am wearing right now as I'm talking to y’all, and there never is. I be out on the porch with E like, "Hey."
Erica: She shows up and its wafting.
Jodie Slaughter: That's some real mama shit. That's some real Black mama shit.
Kenrya: And I love it.
Erica: It just floats.
Jodie Slaughter: You got the house shoes on too?
Kenrya: No. No, I'm usually... Well, I'm in flip-flops. What they call them now? Slides? I be in slides.
Jodie Slaughter: Mine are over there.
Erica: I keep some fluffy shoes on.
Kenrya: That's the point of the pandemic that I'm in. I was doing leggings, the whole athleisure because that's normally what I'm in, anyway. It's too restrictive. I only put that on if I'm taking a walk.
Jodie Slaughter: I've had such a weird pandemic. At the beginning, I was doing it because I've had a hard year mental health wise. I spent a long time knowing that I had anxiety and kind of ignoring it. Being like, "I know I have it." But, just being like, "Yeah, I can kind of push it to the wayside." I had started working out
Jodie Slaughter: a little more in, I'd say, February. One day I'm doing... What was I doing? Like a squat or something like, oh, a plank. And I just pulled a muscle right under my titty, really.
Kenrya: Oh, no.
Jodie Slaughter: So logically, I know that this is what I've done. And it's not that bad. I don't go to the doctor about it immediately. But I spiral because I start being like, "Well, what if it's my gallbladder? What if this pain is this, this, this? What if I have this? What if I have MS?" Like spiraling in a way that I... I've had a little, which is a thing, I've had ever since I started writing, ever since I started realizing that there is a trajectory for me and it does seem to be going up. I started developing a little bit of, what's my brain fog, a little bit of hypochondria. And it's always something fatal. It's always like, "Oh, I'm going to get cancer." I'm 26 years old.
Kenrya: What's going to come fuck this up? Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. And that's exactly what it is because everything else in my life is pretty fine, money is fine, relationship, it's like I'm not in one, but that's okay.
Kenrya: That's good too.
Erica: That's fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. That's fine. My relationship with my family is fine, everything's fine. It's like I need something, waiting-
Kenrya: [crosstalk 00:25:39] So you're waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Jodie Slaughter: I can't be happy. And so I just start spiraling and it's been an uphill battle. It's been good, but, or it hasn't been good. But in the quarantine I was like, we're working out every day, I'm like cooking every day, I'm writing. I drafted a book in like a month and a half. But lately it's been like... it's been to the point where I'm like, "All right, I need to like sit down and not do anything." You know what I mean?
Kenrya: We're several months into this shit.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Kenrya: And it's only so long... I mean, there's only so long you can go.
Jodie Slaughter: The sustained level of hyper-awareness [crosstalk 00:26:26] that some of us already have.
Kenrya: I'm like the same. We're at a fucking 10 already.
Erica: We're already up right here, and now we're just here nonstop.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah and its...
Erica: It's difficult.
Kenrya: It's exhausting.
Erica: It is exhausting. That's the best way to put it. Girl, I totally understand.
Jodie Slaughter: It's ghetto! It's the ghetto! And that's the good ghetto because the ghetto is great.
Kenrya: It is the ghetto. Not great, zero stars, would not recommend.
Jodie Slaughter: This is, actually, I don't know what this is. This is awful, but oh child. And it's so crazy because this is one of the best, personally I guess, years of my life.
Jodie Slaughter: Some good ass things are happening to me.
Kenrya: But trash.
Jodie Slaughter: And last night I spent a good... Woke up six in the morning, shivering, Googling whether or not I had multiple sclerosis with no evidence.
Kenrya: Oh, honey.
Jodie Slaughter: You know what I mean? It's so wild.
Kenrya: That spiral is real.
Erica: It took a really long time for me in therapy to go through that, to realize that that's what I was looking for. And that shit was... I realizing that while shit was falling apart. I'm like, "I know I'm going through a divorce, but something bad is going to happen."
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: And my therapist is like, "You're going through divorce-"
Kenrya: It's happening.
Erica: "... and you're handling it very, very well."
Jodie Slaughter: Right!
Erica: So it takes a minute to kind of understand. The one thing that my therapist always tells me is that "you know how to rebuild." So even if something horrible happens, you know how to get through it.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: And I was like, girl, I thought I was finished. I was about to graduate in therapy. When my therapist steps you down to like every other week out to a month, I'm like, "Oh I graduated."
Jodie Slaughter: I'm perfect now, I'm good.
Erica: Literally the week after I graduated to every two weeks, I found out I had cancer. And so it was like, "Mmhm!"
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: And I got it out one good time and it was like, "Okay, I got this." And it got to a point I was sitting in therapy like, "So my hair is falling out from chemotherapy and I got both titties chopped off, but everything's good." And she was like, "Wow!" It took a whole lot to get there. So you will get there.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So I think that's the thing with anxiety, is that you're prepared for everything.
Jodie Slaughter: So when it actually gets there, you're like, "Oh I'm cool, calm and collected." I know I've been through this in my head. So many times.
Erica: I had a Terminus picked out already. Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: I already felt how bad this is, maybe worse.
Kenrya: I never thought about that in that way, when emergencies happen, I am leveled.
Jodie Slaughter: You're chill. You're calm.
Erica: Yeah. And that's the thing.
Kenrya: To the point where people have told me that they feel like I don't care. And I'm like, no, it's just because I've already... You're right.
Erica: This is a problem, we're going to work through it.
Kenrya: We're going to solve it.
Jodie Slaughter: Because I've solved it. Every possible way this could go, I've thought about it.
Erica: A through Z and there's plan AA also.
Kenrya: You are fucking right.
Jodie Slaughter: I go through this with my mom. My mother is, I mean, obviously everyone has anxiety but she does. And she... When a situation comes up, she can get kind of panicked and I'm always like, 'Okay, this is what we're going to do. This is..." And she's always like... Or she'll be... She's like, "Jodie, stop overthinking." And I'm like, "Well, I'm prepared if some shit happens." And that's how. And I wish you could just get to that level of always being like, "I've been through things before. I've been in pain. I have been hurt. I have been troubled. I've been and I'm here. And I got through it because I don't have... That's all I can control is how I get through it." If I'm going to die tomorrow, that's just what it's going to be. And I'm not going to be thinking, "Well if I die tomorrow, I'm not going to be able to publish my book and blah, blah." Well, I'll be dead.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. You know what I mean? And also I'll be dead.
Kenrya: There's that.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm not going to care. That'll be the least probably. But it's but it's so hard to get there at a state, to try to be there as consistently as possible. But we work at it, we go to therapy. We suck down these meds.
Erica: The good meds. [crosstalk 00:31:01] "How's everything?" "Great! Great! Great! I feel it, it's great."
Kenrya: And we share, right? We have these conversations. I think that there are so many folks who probably deal with anxiety and don't know it, or haven't admitted it to themselves or haven't gotten help in an official diagnosis. I had my first panic attack when I was probably in the eighth grade. So it was at 13, 14 years old, but nobody knew what the fuck was going on. I cried for a fucking day.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Kenrya: They just said, I broke... I think they said I had a nervous breakdown. Nigga I was in the eighth grade and then it just, we just moved on. I didn't go to therapy. It wasn't a thing. It was the nineties, early nineties, nobody, whatever... But now we have these conversations and hopefully if there's somebody who has experienced this spiral and recognizes themselves and it's like, "Oh fuck, this is the thing that I do and didn't even understand that I was doing it." It helps them to be able to get some help too, right?
Jodie Slaughter: If you do, you are not alone. I know what you're feeling. That feeling in your heart, in your belly. When you're sitting up and it's six in the morning and you have a little pain in your pinky and all of a sudden you're like, "it's over for me," or "what's going on?" I get it. I understand. What's really helped me, I went through cognitive behavioral therapy and that I have varying feelings about it. But one thing I know that has helped me, it's like because I am... I do tend to like to rely on logic a lot.
Kenrya: And there's no logic there.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. No, none at all.
Jodie Slaughter: But my therapist was like, "We need to look at like our evidence." Right? You have a pain in your side, what else are we having? You know what I mean? People with MS don't just wake up one day with a pain in their side and they go to the doctor and the doctor is like, "You have MS." It's like, what is the evidence? What's the... And I know that's not, it's not the end. The evidence is not always the thing that pulls me back, I have to learn coping mechanisms and whatever. Sometimes it's reading, sometimes it's playing games on my phone for like two hours. Whatever it is
Kenrya: Mine right now is “New Girl.” I've just been having heart palpitations again.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, put on a show.
Kenrya: I just been laying on the couch for 30 minutes in the middle of the day when my heart is going crazy and watching an episode of a show that makes me laugh like a fucking crazy person.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, listen. Jessica Day and the boys, they'll get you good.
Erica: I just schedule Tik Tok time. I'm not elevated like you guys.
Jodie Slaughter: That is so... No, no. So I'm 26, my sister is 19. So she's gen Z. I think she woke up the other day and was like, "Oh, my side hurt," or whatever. And she was like, "I think pulled trying to learn a Tik Tok dance."
Erica: See, that's my old ass. I'm 40 and I'm like, "Oh, let's do a Tik Tok dance."
Kenrya: You're not 40 yet, bitch. [crosstalk 00:10:18].
Erica: I'm 39 and I should not be pulling muscles doing Tik Tok dances.
Kenrya: Sure. But let's not put us there before we get there.
Jodie Slaughter: No, please. I can't wait. I hate being, especially cause I'm young and everybody in the romance community.
Kenrya: Thirties are fucking amazing.
Erica: I would say enjoy it all, enjoy each part of it. The twenties were fun because I was young and dumb and being a hoe and just do that. Yeah, the pandemic.
Jodie Slaughter: I can't go outside.
Kenrya: Outside is closed.
Erica: Outside is closed. The thirties, you're getting a little more like, "Okay, this is who I am."
Erica: And now that I'm approaching 40, bitch, I don't care. I got the money. It is just balls to the wall.
Kenrya: That's real shit. It is a beautiful time.
Jodie Slaughter: Twenty is fine. It's fine.
Erica: Okay! I'll take your twenties
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah! Well it's because of my anxiety, because I've experienced it so long, it almost feels like I'm older. I'm ready to reap the benefits of... Cause my sister, I have an older sister as well and she's 34. And she's like, "When you turn 30, you're just horny all the time. You're ready to go." She's like something about you just whatever. And I'm ready to... She's like, you just feel good. She's like, even though you wake up and your body hurts all the time, you just feel good. And I'm ready for that.
Erica: I saw this Venn diagram on Instagram. It was like "My pussy and my joints." And it was like, "Popping." And that is where I am.
Kenrya: That is so accurate!
Erica: But so I will say, I think what makes it better when you get older is that that you learn to shed. You're learning the shit that was put in you as a young teen. So you're like, "You know what? Y'all going to like this fucking good. Y'all going to like this roll. Y'all going to like this backpack. You going to get the pussy that is served. If you don't the pussy that's served, go to another restaurant."
Jodie Slaughter: I get it. I'm only getting there this year, I bought my first two bodycon dresses a few weeks ago.
Jodie Slaughter: Because I've always been fat. I've never been like insecure enough about my body to be like, "I'm going to change it."
Jodie Slaughter: But I have always been like, okay, well we're going to wear things that hide this and hide this. And I was up one night doing the impulse shopping, and I was like, I want to put... I don't have anywhere to go, but I want to try. I've never owned two dresses that were this tight because everybody was always like, "Your stomach, your-"
Kenrya: Fuck them.
Jodie Slaughter: And I looked good as fuck.
Jodie Slaughter: And I was like "Wow! I can't believe I've been missing this!"
Erica: Put it on, take some thirst trap photos. Yes.
Jodie Slaughter: Yep. That's exactly what I did.
Kenrya: Even if they live in your phone, take them shits and look at them and remember.
Jodie Slaughter: I look at them. I'm like "Wow. I can't believe." So, I've just kind of started getting there and I can't wait for that to grow because...
Kenrya: It does, yeah.
Erica: Well I just ordered some lingerie, I suggest you do that. Because Rihanna and her Savage campaign, Savage Fenty campaign. Yeah, so I ordered some. As soon as it gets here, y'all going to see my titties left and right.
Kenrya: We already see your titties left and right.
Erica: I'm sorry.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, the world needs more. Do you know what I mean? There's never too much. Never too much, never too much.
Erica: Okay, so.
Jodie Slaughter: I have completely fucked up y'all, just completely derailed.
Erica: No. This is exactly what we need and I love it, I absolutely love it. Okay. So we going to turn to your current book, your latest work, “Just One More.”
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Erica: Tell us about that.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, “Just One More.” I just wanted to write something that was Black and fun and sweet and smutty and filthy. And I was just that's it. And I was like, I want to put it out on Valentine's day because I'm single and I'm not doing shit. But I like... You know what I mean? I still like Valentine's day. And I was like, I want to write about two people who like Valentine's day sort of unabashedly and barbers, because barbers are so sexy and they're sluts and I love it.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, I say slut in the least shamey way possible. I live for it.
Erica: No they're thots, I love it though.
Jodie Slaughter: They are!
Erica: They keep... They always have cash on them.
Kenrya: Always have cash.
Jodie Slaughter: Always crispy.
Erica: They smell good.
Jodie Slaughter: And I have such a fondness for barbers and I know this is going to sound so... So I told you that my grandmother was a hairdresser and my grandfather was an engineer, but he's my step-grandfather who my grandmother married when my mom was young. My biological grandfather was a barber.
Kenrya: It's in your blood.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. I spent a lot of time when I was young in his barbershop because granny would make me sweep and shit. And he would just let me, because they had their own, and he would just let me run around. Literally he'd talk the old Black man's ears off because I would meet people later in life and be like, "Yeah, I remember you used to be talking," but I just have a fondness for... I just remember such good memories and I was like, "I need a barber," and yeah. So that was the inception of that. I know.
Erica: With a beard.
Jodie Slaughter: That's just the inception I love. I love the smell of a smock.
Erica: Yeah. The powder has a certain smell and that blue stuff. Yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: Hair salons, barbershops there are so... And I went natural because I didn't want any, my grandmother did my hair from when I was…
Erica: She was like "I don't want no damn perm no more."
Jodie Slaughter: ... until when she died. Listen, I had a relaxer at four. Listen, I know.
Kenrya: Wait, did you granny put you in them curls, the rollers.
Jodie Slaughter: Roller wrap. It was a... Rosetta was incredibly traditional.
Kenrya: Yes Rosetta.
Jodie Slaughter: When I was about 13, I was like, "Please, can we start the flat iron. Please."
Erica: She used the Marcel joints.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, or the roller wrap. And so she had to get my cousin Sharnella, who also, they worked in the shop together. I have a lot of hairdressers in my family to teach her how to flat iron. Cause she was like...
Jodie Slaughter: All old Black lady clients, we don't do that. They want the roller wrap. And I was like I'm sick of sitting-
Kenrya: They want a roller wrap and maybe a blue [Crosstalk 00:17:16].
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. And I was like I want it straight because I was going through a little emo phase. And she was like, "No."
Kenrya: You got to bump them ends.
Jodie Slaughter: I wanted to put color in my hair. I wanted a part that was right here that went like this. She said "No." I wanted a side bang, she was like, "Okay, we can do a little something," and it was barely. So she would.
Kenrya: With a real hard curl at the bottom.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen! She would not let me experiment with my hair. I mean, for a while when I was young, I would have the twisties, the little twist and then sometimes some straight back.
Erica: Some murder braids.
Jodie Slaughter: But I put it into that when I went on vacation with my friend and we were in like Indianapolis and this old white man was like, "Hi, little boy." And I was like, we're not doing that ever again anymore, ever. But I went to an Easter Girl Scout parade in a pink velour sweatshirt and some pink Timbs and some straight backs. So that's what I was doing.
Kenrya: I cannot.
Jodie Slaughter: So yeah. Yeah. That's where I was and-
Erica: I'm sorry, I had to mute myself while I stop snorting.
Jodie Slaughter: No listen. But she did my hair. She and my cousin Sharnella, who were both family, were the only people who ever did my hair and my mom or whatever. So I always viewed getting my hair done as such a fraught, like emotionally fraught obviously, but intimate experience. And after she died, I didn't want to go to anybody else and so I was having my mom put relaxer in my hair in the kitchen. And then I was finally like, "all right, that's it. We're just going to not do that shit anymore." So I have a huge fondness for like hairdressers, hair salons, barbers and I was like, "I need to write a barber."
Kenrya: So the main characters in “Just One More” are: there's a male protagonist, who's a barber, and then the female protagonist is a tattoo artist. Right?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: And they both love Valentine's day. And one very special Valentine's day, they cross each other's paths, right?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: We don't want to give too much away, so we'll make sure we put a link to that in the show notes so that cats can read it as well.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah it's filthy, so definitely read it. I mean-
Erica: Yes, we had picks of the sex scenes. Kenrya was like, "Well, we going to read this one." I said "No, bitch. No, bitch. We got another one we got to read."
Kenrya: And I read it for the first time as I was recording it. Oh God. Okay, this is great.
Erica: It was spicy. It was spicy.
Jodie Slaughter: I love it.
Kenrya: Yeah. So speaking of which last week we read an excerpt from “White Whiskey Bargain,” which I kept calling “White Whiskey Bottom.”
Jodie Slaughter: You know what, actually, now that I think about it, that's a good title. It's a different book, but it's a good title.
Kenrya: Yes, but...
Jodie Slaughter: One that I might have to write.
Kenrya: I would like to see it. I like it. So “White Whiskey Bargain” stars Hannah and she's forced to take over a family business after her mother dies. What sparked the idea for this book?
Jodie Slaughter: I wanted to write... I'm born in Birmingham, Alabama, but-
Kenrya: My family is from Birmingham.
Jodie Slaughter: My dad's family is. My mom's family, Louisville, Kentucky. We moved back when I was two that's where I was raised. That's where I live now. I have always had such a fascination with Appalachia, Kentucky specifically. Even though Appalachia is a very large, but because one of my parents spent quite a bit of time in Appalachia, Kentucky, and I was always super fascinated by it. And I was always very fascinated about like, first of all, we don't see a lot of like content about Appalachia period.
Kenrya: Especially Affrilachians.
Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. When we do, they're always white. So there are people who like-
Erica: We think Dolly Parton is the only one.
Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. There are people who like don't even know, but there are large populations of people of color, Black and Brown people who live and have lived in Appalachia for decades, making a life. And that's what I wanted to write about. And when I was sort of like conceptualizing that idea, because I kind of like sometimes writing characters that are a little sometimes morally gray in certain areas and skirt the law. Like I'm not interested so much in people who play by the rules in a world where I feel that like the concept of like justice is...
Kenrya: Skewed as fuck. What the fuck is that?
Jodie Slaughter: It doesn't mean, the concept of just people who like quote unquote follow the law, doesn't mean as much to me in a world where we know that to be unjust. Yeah. And I was just like, moon shining is fun, it's illegal. I was like, it's really interesting. So I'm just going to like write a story about, kind of not Romeo and Juliet, but rival rivalries. And I'm only going to have Black and Brown people as the main characters.
Erica: Well, I loved it, absolutely loved it. And I think I noted this when we were discussing the book, I love that your characters are flawed, but not in this like... They're just people and not in this, you know...
Kenrya: It's not a fatal flaw.
Erica: Gasp stare at the camera. I can't believe this happened. They're people, shit happens. You make decisions because of a variety of reasons and you just deal with it, you know? So I fucking loved the book and loved the fact that you set it in Appalachia.
Jodie Slaughter: Either way, I love Affrilachians, I love that word.
Kenrya: I know!
Erica: I know, because I'm from Missouri from the Midwest. And when I grew up hearing about Appalachia, you think about Dolly Parton and coal mining, but no, there's a whole... We're everywhere, and not only are we everywhere, we have our own cultures and communities everywhere.
Jodie Slaughter: That's a big part to me when I was trying to figure out... So Javier, his family is Mexican American and what I was trying to convey that as respectfully as possible. And when I was conceptualizing like, okay, how are they going to talk? Am I going to put how they talk in the dialogue? Not just say they have accents, but type everything out is...
Kenrya: Like on Zora Neale Hurston, how do you...
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I thought, these people have been in this place for generations. They're going to talk like the people in Appalachia talk, they're going to have accents, but they're also going to retain, because there are things about their individual cultures that are so deep rooted but they're also going to retain that as well as have their own thing, because you can't be that isolated and not have your own thing. But also come from two groups of people whose cultures are very deep rooted, very proud and not also retain that as well. So it was really fun and really challenging, but incredibly important to me.
Kenrya: Wow. What kind of research kind of went into making that happen?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh Lord. I did a lot of reading, a lot of articles of which to be honest, there needs to be more research about Black and brown people in Appalachia, but there isn't a ton, but I did a lot of reading. And then I did a lot of talking to my mother who spent, I want to say a couple of years in Harlan, Kentucky, actually. And so a lot of the people that she did interact with were outsiders like her, but a lot of them were also native. So we talked lot about that. And then I did watch some of the show Justify, which is very white. But it's also a good, interesting representation community wise. So yeah, it's an amalgamation of reading, watching, listening.
Erica: So you do a beautiful job building intimacy between the two main characters. Just the pazole, is that what you call it? I thought that was just a beautiful scene. We're going to cook and it's just beautiful. But...
Kenrya: It's also a good dish. I make two different kinds, red and green.
Erica: I made a red one. It was so good. But bitch we were farting for like fucking years. You could have gone to the moon with the gas that was coming out of this body. But then...
Kenrya: We mostly eat beans in my house so it's not...
Erica: But transition from farting. You have some nasty ass scenes in this book. I fucking loved them. And for the scene that we read, we read the one where Hannah and Javier masturbated in front of each other. Fucking amazing. It was hot as hell. It was just intimate and sensual without, ’cause we always talk about sex as just actual penetration, and it's so much more than that. What do you want people to take away from that particular scene?
Jodie Slaughter: I want people to take away... There are so many ways to have sex. There are so many ways to enjoy sex. There are so many ways to have a partner or partners be with them, turn them on, get them off without ever having to lay a finger on them, which I think is incredibly sexy to me. I love dirty talk. It's an overwhelming thing in my books because I'm just into it and so I think that's a big thing in there. I just think, try it. You know what I mean? If you're into it, if you're interested in it, because it can get you far.
Erica: Girl, it can get you there.
Kenrya: It got them far.
Jodie Slaughter: It got them there. I think romance and erotica does a fantastic job of exploring the many ways there are to have sex. And I don't think I particularly did anything groundbreaking here, but I definitely want this to be another representation of a really great way to be intimate, to be sexy and it doesn't have to be a thing. I didn't want Javier to think, "Oh, I'm so jealous of that or whatever." And the concept of Hannah, in the scene, she squirts, but she also says, I can make me do it, but you probably can't...
Kenrya: She says, “I'll teach you, sure, but it's going to take some work.”
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, exactly right and I wanted that to be how it is. When you're by yourself... But you can be by yourself and with other people at the same time. I just wanted to show something like that.
Kenrya: Yeah. And I love that the squirting was not a big deal, you know what I mean? It was just what she does. There was no, "Oh, she's embarrassed." She didn't want to do it in front of him. He didn't make some big scene, you know what I mean? He came over, he picked up the towel, he said, "All right, let's go clean up."
Jodie Slaughter: That's what we in the fan fiction world, which is how I got my start being interested in writing, called wet and messy.
Erica: So fan fiction, what was your first fan fiction you wrote?
Jodie Slaughter: My first, oh God. I read fan fiction for years before I wrote anything. But the first... What was the first...
Erica: Oh, come on, embarrass yourself.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. I actually forgot because I did write something very early on. When I was, I want to say I was maybe 13. There was this band that nobody knows called McFly. They're a British pop rock band. Just four boring white boys. I had written this, but I was just in love because of course. And this is back when, especially with a band. It wasn't on fanfiction.net or AO3. It was on message boards. I don't even think I ever finished it, a self not a self insert, but a Black OC. OC meaning original character, excuse me. I have to explain the terminology. With one of the band members, that's the first thing I ever wrote. But I got more serious about writing fan fiction a few years ago when I got really deep into “The Walking Dead” fandom and started writing Michonne and that's where I met my writing group of fan fic writers and they're why I'm here.
Erica: We're going to have to put a pin in that and talk to you about that one.
Jodie Slaughter: Filthy. I wrote some and it's good.
Erica: That's will be like, that's my kind of drink, I like it. Well it's funny because we interviewed Christina C. Jones and she said...That's why I asked, what's yours?
Jodie Slaughter: Hers is much less embarrassing because I understand her even from now as a 26-year-old. I get it. Me? Looking back at I'm like, "Girl, you were... No."
Jodie Slaughter: Y’all are going to Google it and look at me and think, oh man...
Kenrya: I'm definitely going to Google it.
Erica: Wait, they got one dude that's white.
Jodie Slaughter: They're so white and they're British so they're even whiter.
Erica: And the wind in his hair goes like this.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, That's probably Dougie, does he have a nose ring or lip ring. Which one did he have?
Erica: I guess he's the spicy one. The urban one?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, maybe that's Harry, he's a little tanner. My favorite one...
Erica: These motherfuckers are...
Kenrya: There's no tan.
Erica: It's like you're milk colored, you're skim colored, you're 2% milk colored.
Jodie Slaughter: My favorite one was Tom who's the very blonde one, because he was a nerd. And I thought, "Oh, he likes Star Wars and I don't care about Star Wars, but I think I like nerds or whatever."
Erica: So just so you know, they are coming back. The picture that I'm looking at of them is from 2019.
Kenrya: Oh they're grown.
Erica: Yeah. They have a sold-
Kenrya: They signed a record deal.
Erica: They have a sold-out show. None of them are blonde anymore because they've grown. But now I do see the blonde one with the very early 2000's tie.
Jodie Slaughter: I think that's Tom and he was my favorite.
Kenrya: This one's kind of cute.
Jodie Slaughter: That was Dougie.
Kenrya: He's kind of cute.
Erica: That's the one with the hair.
Jodie Slaughter: He's the youngest one.
Kenrya: Yeah. I can see that. Only in theory.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, they were my life for a good two years. It was so dark because this was 2007. So none of my friends, they were just this random, they never became big here... So you wouldn't turn... Nobody knew them.
Kenrya: Yeah that one, he's cute as an adult.
Erica: All chiseled and...
Kenrya: I like a little hair situation and a mascara situation. I do.
Erica: And if you saw your partner...
Kenrya: I know he's not that at all.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God.
Kenrya: Oh, that's okay. I'm the one who was always a little attracted to Captain Jack Sparrow.
Jodie Slaughter: Were you really? I never got there.
Kenrya: A little dirty, a lot of mascara.
Erica: He looks like his balls stink.
Erica: Bitch, you like Jim Jones.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. Wait a second though.
Kenrya: He always looks dirty.
Erica: But he looks scruffy.
Kenrya: He looks like if you did this you would leave a streak on his face.
Jodie Slaughter: He's fine.
Erica: Thank you.
Kenrya: He looks like he hasn't bathed.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. But the thing about that is that sometimes they can look-
Erica: Break it down for me, sis.
Jodie Slaughter: Not dirty enough. I tweeted yesterday, this is another questionable white man attraction. That Chris Evans, the only time I really see it for him is when you know he's been in Boston for a long time, because you start clicking.
Erica: His accent is thicker, a little scruffier.
Jodie Slaughter: He starts wearing the white rib tank top. I don't want to call it a traditional name.
Kenrya: What do you call it, the traditional A-shirt?
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. He has shitty tattoos. He looks a little filthy and Katrina Jackson and I, I said because Katrina Jackson was like, yes! And I said he looks like a grimy, who will you fuck you in an alley and then buy you a slice of pizza after.
Erica: You like anal with pepperoni?
Jodie Slaughter: Sometimes you need to do it and you need to say, [crosstalk 01:02:28] listen, I know I'm going to have to go get some cranberry juice tomorrow. But it's worth it. Sometimes if they're a little grimy, its okay, it's good.
Erica: Therefore, Jim Jones gets all the stars.
Jodie Slaughter: I see it for Jim Jones. I do.
Erica: Thank you.
Jodie Slaughter: I do, unfortunately.
Kenrya: All right. We just going to have to agree to disagree there.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, Michael B. Jordan, who does a paper bag test with every woman he's ever been with, let alone kids. I just think he's just so fine. And it's so dark to me.
Kenrya: I like him from here to here. I just want to see the chest and the abs like from “Creed” time, but don't look at him. Because like you said, it's the paper bag situation. You ain't checking for me at all.
Jodie Slaughter: It's disgusting.
Kenrya: Yeah. I can't. And Erica always says I ruin people, but I know people who know him...
Erica: Here's the thing, Kenrya has been in the industry for so long. And so as my best friend, I will literally text her in the middle of the day and say I like beep and she'll say, “I had a friend that worked with him…” I'm just like bitch. So I do still share my stories of who I desire. However...
Kenrya: You just know I might ruin them.
Erica: I just know that I got to get it firmly in my loins. That I'm going to fuck them whether or not. And then I tell Kenrya and she might, or she might not, most of the time she ruins the fantasy.
Kenrya: I do...
Erica: Well no, she tries to, but I'm thinking, you know what, these loins...
Jodie Slaughter: Some of them are deep seeded, depending on they want what they want.
Erica: Exactly. These loins want what they want.
Kenrya: And that's fine, but it's my duty to tell you what I know, what you choose to do with that information.
Jodie Slaughter: Kenrya, who is your number one celeb crush right now?
Kenrya: Oh, I don't know.
Jodie Slaughter: Don't say you don't have any!
Kenrya: I don't know if I have one.
Erica: Bitch, I got a whole list. One, Rihanna, two, Jonathan Majors because that man, look like he could knock the civil rights out my pussy.
Jodie Slaughter: He's a man.
Erica: He's a good man. Look, he just look all negrofied, let me fuck your negro pussy.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen! He's civil rights fine and you know he's going to go to work, he's going to provide.
Erica: He got them John Henry arms.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God, have you been watching “Lovecraft Country”?
Erica: Yes bitch.
Kenrya: She's sick.
Jodie Slaughter: [inaudible 01:05:13] ain't shit, it ain't a sliver of shit. I still think I can make it work.
Erica: I can make it work.
Jodie Slaughter: That's how fine he is.
Erica: Vogue just did a 24 hours with.
Kenrya: Oh I saw, I didn't watch it yet though. [crosstalk 01:05:31] that's the only image I saw.
Jodie Slaughter: Women have to change those sheets.
Erica: The dogs be sitting on the corner of the bed, looking at us like "Mama, why are you doing that to daddy?" Shut up kid!
Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God.
Erica: Yes. And the thing is, after seeing that, this changes my thoughts of him because I'm a bird and I feel like I might be a little too birdy for him because I'm going to be like, "I'll fuck you to some Jodeci." And he says, “No, let's put on some Sade.” And I say, "No, Jodeci motherfucker." He looks like he's a little refined?
Jodie Slaughter: Y'all could settle in the middle of some Floetry.
Erica: Yeah, we could, until she starts singing.
Kenrya: Oh, I have some Floetry on my list. Yeah. It's on my playlist.
Erica: All right. I'm sorry.
Jodie Slaughter: He probably wants to listen to The Roots all the time. Like can we listen to some Gucci Mane? I get it. I need supplies. We need something to really...
Erica: And he has been very, very active with regard to the political campaign season.
Jodie Slaughter: I know that makes Miss Pretty Pussy even more... Because there's nothing to me like [crosstalk 01:06:59] I'm sorry but watching, okay. I think that because my ideal is “Moonlight,” that scene with Trevante Rose is driving...
Kenrya: I can get with you there, I can't get with you on Plies, but Trevante all day.
Jodie Slaughter: I would sleep with Plies, but I don't know that I'm looking at him like I think he's so sexy, like physically, but I still would. There's something there.
Erica: Let's say that my bar is low, but I'd fuck a lot.
Jodie Slaughter: You get hot for Kirk Franklin too?
Kenrya: Do you really?
Erica: Yeah. I'd give him some gospel pussy. Okay. Sorry.
Jodie Slaughter: I can kind of see it. His wife is so beautiful, I'd do them both. I feel they're so little though. I think I'm taller than both of them probably [crosstalk 01:08:07].
Erica: Me too, I'd probably fuck them in half, but you know what? I'll just put you back together and say, “Here's some Band-aids, talk to you later! Bye.”
Jodie Slaughter: Kenrya's face is saying, "These bitches are..."
Kenrya: No not at all.
Erica: Kenrya's been my best friend for 20 years. This bitch understands. She gets it.
Kenrya: I do.
Jodie Slaughter: You need the balance.
Erica: She's the yin to my yang, because what's fucked up is I'm loud about it. This bitch is quiet. She'll just slink back in and be like, "Hey!"
Jodie Slaughter: I have a friend like that too. Filthy, whose just filthy!
Erica: Bitch, put your titty back in your shirt.
Kenrya: That happened!
Erica: Yeah, it definitely did. I said, “Bitch do you not see that titty out? Goddamn!”
Kenrya: We had a whole session in the car, I was loving it.
Erica: And then she just came up.
Kenrya: I didn't know it was still out.
Erica: I was babysitting her daughter and here she just comes up. I said, "Hey girl, put your titty away."
Kenrya: I mean, to be fair, you've seen my titties.
Erica: I know but Goddamn, have some respect for your nipple. It's just out and flinging in the wind. I'm classy, I don't do that.
Kenrya: That was our second date. And we still together!
Erica: Mind you. I got drunk on the Potomac and definitely was flashing my titties.
Kenrya: You had your whole entire everything out? Yes.
Erica: And this was right after radiation. I asked, "I was showing my titties?" My homegirl said, "Yes, radiation burns and all."
Jodie Slaughter: I live for it.
Erica: Hashbrown breast cancer. That was from Kimmy Schmidt.
Kenrya: Okay. I have a question. Do you have a favorite line or passage from “White Whiskey Bargain” that you would like to share?
Jodie Slaughter: I do. And we actually kind of broached on it a little earlier. It's this scene a little right after Javier comes back and he kind of confronts Hannah and he's like, "You made me feel like and here's why." And they make the pazole.
Erica: Look at that vulnerability.
Kenrya: Using his words!
Jodie Slaughter: That's the sexiest thing and he tells her that he wants to kiss her.
Erica: Mm consent. I have that highlighted in the book and I wrote consent in all caps because it was sexy.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. That's what I wanted. It made me really emotional when I was rereading it. I'll be honest. I read the books obviously when I'm editing them and then almost never, again.
Kenrya: Same. I don't read my books unless I'm at a reading.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, because jarring. I remember, but sometimes people will be like, "Oh, and when this happened." And I just say uhhuh. Because I'm also a pantser so I just... Oh, I'm sorry. That means like...
Kenrya: What's a pantser?
Erica: I thought this was something both of you know and I thought, “Oh okay.”
Jodie Slaughter: So there are plotters people who really plot out their work chapter by chapter or however they do it. And pantsers, which is short for people who fly by the seat of their pants. You just go.
Kenrya: Oh see now. I set my stuff out chapter by chapter, outline.
Erica: What's your sign Jodie?
Jodie Slaughter: I'm a Leo.
Kenrya: Are you?
Erica: You saw her, look at her face when she said.
Jodie Slaughter: What else would I be?
Erica: A pantser seems very Gemini. Someone said Geminis, they don't know what they're saying until the words come out their mouth and it's just like, "Where will this sentence take you?"
Kenrya: So, she's a Gemini.
Erica: If I was a writer, it'd be like, where will this story take you? Let's just see.
Jodie Slaughter: That's what I am. It's what I have. I've tried. It'll probably never see the light, I had this gorgeous Black heist novel starting this like finance Black lead, and this PI, this finance Black PI, and he's like trying to catch her. And I was like, okay, I want to get this done in a reasonable amount of time. So I plotted out every chapter, and then I finished it. I was like, well, it feels like I've written it already. So, you know, that's it.
Kenrya: Okay. We all need you to put some sex scenes in it, and then publish it, and then come back.
Erica: Because this sounds really good.
Jodie Slaughter: I know. It was, I think it's so good.
Erica: Do it.
Jodie Slaughter: I might in like a year. I might be able to-
Erica: I mean, you probably want to sneak a chapter to me. I won't tell nobody.
Jodie Slaughter: I might put you on my pre-reader list. Yeah.
Erica: Yes bitch, please. Thank you very much.
Jodie Slaughter: Because I have some things.
Erica: Or I'll tell your mama about Plies.
Jodie Slaughter: No! Speaking of y'all are probably going to cut, you don't have to cut it out, but it's so... Because we're talking about crushes. My aunt, she got my mother, she was like, Tori, you need to watch the “50 Shades of Grey” movie.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay. So my mother did it.
Erica: Did she try to talk to you about it?
Jodie Slaughter: No, but she's become obsessed with it. She watches them all. And I ended up because I was-
Kenrya: But they're so bad. I watched the first two, they're so bad.
Jodie Slaughter: What I found out is that she thinks Jamie Dornan is fine.
Kenrya: Oh, okay.
Jodie Slaughter: And that's what it is.
Kenrya: All right.
Jodie Slaughter: She was like, can you get this thing called... What is that show he's in? He's in a show with Gillian Anderson where he's a serial killer, by the way.
Kenrya: Is that the one that's on Netflix right now?
Jodie Slaughter: It might be. I think it was, but she was like, can you get that on my TV for me so I can watch it?
Jodie Slaughter: I had to subscribe. I was like, could you watch it in seven days? Because I have to subscribe to the Sundance Channel and I don't feel like paying $7.99 a month. And she was like, yeah. And she watched it in two days, the whole show. My mom don't even like light-skinned men. She thinks Sam Elliott, you know, old white Sam Elliott with-
Erica: From “Law and Order”?
Jodie Slaughter: He might be. He was in a “Road House”. Got me throwing this pen around. He's got a mustache.
Kenrya: Who the fuck is Sam Elliot?
Erica: “Law and Order” on the screen.
Jodie Slaughter: It might be.
Kenrya: Oh, with the mustache!
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: She thinks he's fine?
Jodie Slaughter: He's maybe the only White man she thinks is fine.
Kenrya: Your mom? Please. Stop.
Jodie Slaughter: Somehow Jamie Dornan is on that. She's like, oh, he's so sexy. And I'm like, ugh.
Kenrya: I mean, we all have, oh he was in “Tombstone.”
Erica: Yeah, I'm like, he looks real Western-y, but okay.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, he is.
Erica: All right, ma.
Jodie Slaughter: I have no clue what's going on in that woman's brain, but yeah.
Kenrya: Now I want to watch “Tombstone.” Because that's got Val Kilmer.
Jodie Slaughter: I just jogged your memory.
Kenrya: You did.
Erica: I don't think I've ever seen “Tombstone.”
Jodie Slaughter: I haven't either.
Kenrya: It's so good. Yeah, okay. I'm having a realization about myself.
Jodie Slaughter: You think Sam Elliott's fine too?
Kenrya: No, but Val Kilmer in that movie is very, you know.
Jodie Slaughter: Val Kilmer?
Kenrya: Val Kilmer does not do it for me, but Val Kilmer in that movie...
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah.
Kenrya: And it's kind of in the same line as Jack Sparrow.
Erica: But just [inaudible 01:16:01], because if you saw her partner. When we get off, I want you to show her a picture of your partner. Because you're going to be like what the fuck?
Kenrya: No, I don't think it's about looks, [crosstalk 00:01:16:15]. It's the androgyny, I think that I'm [crosstalk 01:16:15] that I like. It's the androgyny for me.
Erica: Your partner is-
Kenrya: No, I know he is a big Black man. He is not. Yeah. I am drawn to androgynous people. I think it's really what it is.
Jodie Slaughter: I think that 100%.
Kenrya: Like studs. Yeah. God.
Erica: You can have my baby. You can get me pregnant anytime.
Kenrya: That's what it is.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I get it. I tend to be really into the feminine. So I opt in also very into feminine men. You know Saucy Santana? I looking at him all the time and I'm like, there's something about him that's like sexy. I'm sorry. There's sex appeal there.
Erica: Do you know who Saucy Santana is Kenrya?
Kenrya: No, I'm Googling.
Erica: He's a fucking bird on “Love and Hip Hop.”
Kenrya: Oh, okay. I see this, and I'm…
Erica: Walk him like a dog, aye, aye. Wait. Okay, no. No.
Jodie Slaughter: He's got by...
Erica: Park that big mack truck right in this little garage.
Jodie Slaughter: Garage.
Jodie Slaughter: There's something that I'm really interested. I'm very attracted to the feminine.
Kenrya: Yeah. Oh, like Uncle Clifford?
Erica: Now Uncle Clifford is a different thing.
Erica: Uncle Clifford is fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes, [crosstalk 01:17:35] fine!
Erica: I would fuck with Uncle Clifford, but Saucy Santana is like-
Jodie Slaughter: Well he's a bird, but I also think that's fun.
Erica: I'm a bird. I can't. Did you see this nigga? Him and his homeboys, his home girls, they went and got dressed up on this private street and did this whole shoot for Black Lives Matter.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. That was humiliating. It was awful. Yeah.
Erica: They got dressed up in Black.
Jodie Slaughter: He was like [crosstalk 01:18:00], and people were like this is not okay.
Kenrya: Oh, I saw that! I didn't know who that was. I was like, what is this?
Erica: His crew, yeah.
Jodie Slaughter: I have questionable taste, to be honest. That's what I do, but when he got caught people were like, this is not it. He was like, at least I went out and took pictures, and y’all not doing nothing. It was like, baby, be quiet and just look back at it, and.
Erica: Now I will forever see Saucy Santana clips on TikTok.
Jodie Slaughter: Please. Please. I'm going to be like, listen, I get it.
Jodie Slaughter: There is sex appeal.
Kenrya: Oh my God. I love this. Yeah. It's the androgyny for me. Like right now, I think we're going to watch “Tombstone.” “I'm yo huckleberry,” yes! Yeah. I'm going to have to.
Jodie Slaughter: You about to get randy.
Kenrya: Oh my God. My partner's going to be like, “Bitch what?”
Erica: Okay. Well, okay. So which of your characters in “White Whiskey Bargain” do you identify with most?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh Lord.
Jodie Slaughter: That's really hard. I feel like it would be easy to say Hannah, I guess. I feel like maybe this is a bit of a cop out, I think there is a little bit of me in both Hannah and Javier. The part of me in Javier that is like very loyal to his close family, to his parents. There's the part of me in Javier that can be a little closed off, but also desperately seeking to change that, to be more vulnerable. There's a part of me in Hannah that kind of just wants to like keep things as simple as possible sometimes.
Jodie Slaughter: And then also the part of me in Hannah that's like take charge. So, I will say, I think it really is a mix of both.
Kenrya: That's not a cop out.
Jodie Slaughter: You sure? Okay.
Erica: There were more than two characters in a book, so just pick [crosstalk 00:01:20:36].
Jodie Slaughter: That's true. That's true. I wish I had a cleaner, more succinct answer. Yeah, it's both. It's both of mine.
Kenrya: Okay. What are you reading right now?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, so right now I'm reading, it's on a romance, I'm reading “Mexican Gothic” by, I think it's Sylvia Moreno-Garcia. It's sort of, kind of horror, magical realism type thing. I'm doing it as a buddy read for Halloween with one of my friends.
Kenrya: Oh, nice. That's so cute.
Erica: All we do is drink.
Jodie Slaughter: I don't drink. I would smoke, but none of my friends smoke, so whatever.
Kenrya: All of our friends do both.
Jodie Slaughter: At least rather, none of my friends in this group, because my best friend texted me this morning and was like, I'm taking an edible at six in the morning. I'm about to get lit, let's go. But she's in dental school, so that's why.
Erica: She needs to relax.
Jodie Slaughter: More than anybody. But romance-wise, what am I reading? What am I going to read next, rather? Oh, there's a “Big City Heat Anthology,” and Lucy Eden has a story in it called “The Wolf of Wall Street.” And it's like a wolf shifter.
Kenrya: See, she likes the supes too.
Jodie Slaughter: I do. What really got me super into reading and romance was “Twilight.” Like I say it everywhere, I'll speak it forever, because it is what it is, as problematic as it is. So, I did spend a long time reading paranormal stuff and I got away from it. But I'm trying to get back into it because there is something really entertaining about it. So, I'm really hoping to...
Erica: I think I've read a few really good paranormal romances by Black women, so will share.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, Chencia C. Higgins, she has a series, I forget what it's called.
Erica: We read Chencia Higgins, but we read “Benefriends” from her, right?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes, yes.
Jodie Slaughter: She has, I think it's a series. I think it's called like Wolves of Texas, Wolves of West Texas, something like that. It's real hot.
Erica: We might have Wings of... No. Wings of Fire.
Kenrya: You about to make some shit up.
Erica: No, our kids. What our kids read. What's the one?
Kenrya: There's one sitting right here.
Erica: The one with the first season, the fairies and the-
Kenrya: Oh, I can't remember what it's called, but yeah.
Erica: It was good.
Kenrya: It was good. I can't remember what it's called right this moment though.
Kenrya: There's a lot of books up there.
Erica: We've been acting a fool the whole time, but I want to hit you with a few rapid-fire questions. They're never rapid fire because I'm like, bitch what?
Jodie Slaughter: Okay.
Kenrya: And then we have to chime in with our own answers.
Erica: Okay, one, favorite drink?
Jodie Slaughter: Sweet tea. I was going to say water. That was what I was going to say first. I know that's awful, but sweet tea.
Erica: No, that's good.
Kenrya: Yeah, no. Sparkling water. I drink sparkling water all day.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, I can't you know what's so awful, I like to lukewarm too, like room temperature water. I don't like cold water.
Kenrya: I drink my flat water like that all day, but I also drink sparkling water and I like that really cold. It just depends on if it's got bubbles or not. Yeah. Yeah, E? What's your favorite drink?
Erica: I was going to say a margarita with mezcal in it.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, see, I said I don't really drink, but if I'm choosing an alcoholic drink, it's a dark and stormy. I like ginger.
Erica: Oh, I love ginger. Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative), okay. All right.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay.
Erica: Country or city?
Jodie Slaughter: See, this is not rapid fire.
Erica: It never is.
Jodie Slaughter: City. Yeah, city.
Erica: You Kenrya?
Erica: Yeah, city.
Kenrya: Too many horror movies are set in the country.
Kenrya: Yeah, no thank you.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm in Kentucky, like please.
Erica: So this one, I thought about our dear friends, Hannah and Javier. Your house or theirs?
Jodie Slaughter: Theirs.
Kenrya: That was quick.
Jodie Slaughter: [crosstalk 01:25:20] house is always fun, more fun. You know like when you had friends and it was like, I want to go to your house. Like I want to fuck in your bed.
Kenrya: Let's mess up your sheets.
Erica: See, I know that my sheets are clean.
Jodie Slaughter: That's fair. That's an issue with straight, like [inaudible 01:25:41]
Kenrya: I have fucked in the car, because I asked when the last time the sheets were changed, and they said it had been a couple of weeks, and I said, we gon’ to fuck this car. How about that?
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: I would rather. And I had a babysitter at my house, so I was like, we're just going to fuck in the car.
Kenrya: I mean, I cars. What do you want from me?
Jodie Slaughter: I mean, that's what they're for.
Jodie Slaughter: That's what they're for.
Erica: Big wedding, little wedding?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, little. No wedding. Little wedding. Courthouse.
Kenrya: That's how I got married.
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. If I'm going to, I think I really don't want to like have the aisles full of people that neither of us really cares that much about, we have to pay all that money.
Kenrya: Oh, no.
Jodie Slaughter: I don't want one of those giant dresses, like a little, people we care about the most. We go to the courthouse, just us and like our parents or whatever, and then we can have a party after. That's the ideal.
Erica: Red lobster.
Jodie Slaughter: I don't like seafood.
Kenrya: So, we went to Red Lobster after I got married.
Jodie Slaughter: I'm sorry.
Kenrya: It's fine. I got married at the courthouse. Erica was my maid of honor, and then we got on the train and we went to Red Lobster in Times Square.
Jodie Slaughter: I love that.
Erica: I think about Kenrya's wedding day, and it's more about me and her.
Kenrya: It was.
Jodie Slaughter: That's very “Broad City.” Have y’all ever seen “Broad City”?
Kenrya: Yes, yes.
Erica: I love “Broad City”.
Jodie Slaughter: Very Abby and Ilana energy.
Kenrya: The Red Lobster was probably the best thing about the whole fact that we got to be together. I gave y’all, oh you got that Care Bear sticker, the maid of honor badge.
Erica: Yeah, I had my maid of honor badge, it was a Care Bear sticker.
Kenrya: Next time I want a real wedding, but not with people who I don't give a fuck about. First of all, I'm not trying to pay for a bunch of motherfuckers to eat. I just want to be people who I most care about, friends of the marriage.
Jodie Slaughter: You know they're going to complain, they going to be shading like the chicken was, eh.
Kenrya: They don't need to be here.
Jodie Slaughter: No, fuck you. Exactly.
Kenrya: I just want to party. I just don't want
Erica: Party like, yeah. Let's just all kick it and drinks on me.
Kenrya: Yeah. We can get married at the party. We can get married at the party.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh yeah. That's a great-
Erica: So, we're having a party and oh, we're going to get married real quick.
Jodie Slaughter: Make it a surprise.
Kenrya: I don't even know if it has to be a surprise. I just want to get married at the party.
Jodie Slaughter: At the party. I think that's a great idea.
Erica: Hey, turn that music down, they got to get married.
Jodie Slaughter: And you know people are going to be like, oh dang, right in the middle of my song.
Erica: I was just about back that ass up.
Kenrya: I would never do that to the people. We would never turn off “Back That Ass Up” for anything. Somebody would have to be dying for me to fucking turn off “Back That Ass Up.”
Erica: Just wait, damn.
Kenrya: Let me get to the Lil Wayne part.
Jodie Slaughter: Lil Wayne.
Kenrya: That is literally the best part.
Erica: Okay, last question.
Jodie Slaughter: Okay.
Erica: Favorite food?
Jodie Slaughter: Macaroni and cheese.
Kenrya: I thought you were going to say mine.
Erica: The corner?
Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, the corner.
Erica: The corner with the crusty piece?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. What's yours?
Kenrya: I don't eat cheese. Mashed potatoes are my favorite.
Jodie Slaughter: Really?
Jodie Slaughter: I don't do much cheese, except for in macaroni. People can just like eat cheese, I can't. I can't. I don't do that.
Erica: My stomach would be pop, locking it, and dropping it.
Jodie Slaughter: Well, that too, but I just don't like it. Because I've only recently become a little lactose-intolerant, but even before.
Erica: Oh, well honey, look down that road, and you see in 10 years, and say I'm going to be lactose intolerant.
Kenrya: It does get worse with repeat exposure and I am allergic to dairy, and I haven't had any in 12, since 2008. Now, there is one thing that I still eat that has cheese in it, and that is the biscuits at Red Lobster. And I just know I'm going to be fucked up.
Erica: Which proves that is not real cheese in it.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, wow.
Kenrya: It's just a poop situation, but it's not vomiting, which is what happens with everything else. So, it's fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh, that's good. That's doable.
Kenrya: That is the only dairy.
Jodie Slaughter: You can’t throw up and be on your phone, but you can be like pooping and be on your phone, you know what I mean?
Kenrya: Yeah. I do it all the time. So, it's fine.
Erica: I think my favorite food right now are chicken wings. I just love some fucking chicken wings.
Kenrya: Y'all been ordering from that place over and over again still?
Erica: You open up Uber eats and it's like America's Best, would you like to order your regular? Yes. I want lemon pepper wings, garlic Parmesan, and hot honey barbecue.
Kenrya: When Erica had her last surgery, I was waiting outside forever, because COVID, and I'm texting with her brother and we're trying to figure out what her meal can be, because she's not eating all day because she had to have surgery. And we knew that the only thing she was going to want was fucking wings. And wings were waiting on her ass when she got out of the surgery.
Jodie Slaughter: That is love. That's love.
Erica: She loaned it. She loaned it.
Kenrya: This has been lovely. What's what's next? What are you working on?
Jodie Slaughter: Well, I have some things that I can't say right now.
Erica: You can't share, that's okay.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Kenrya: You have some surprises in store.
Jodie Slaughter: Yes. I have some surprises in store, but I'm also working on like a quarantine novella, another Black romance, an age gap, only ten years, but with like a really sexy sculptor who I'm imagining as Mahershala Ali. And this woman, this gorgeous like bald Black woman I found on Instagram
Erica: You're welcome.
Jodie Slaughter: Listen, I [inaudible 01:31:46]. And they're just like in the desert and they have to quarantine together, and there's some like history.
Kenrya: Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: That's something that I can share, that will be finished and hopefully out soon, but other things you'll have to wait on.
Erica: Oh, okay.
Kenrya: That's awesome. Okay. Well for the people who want to be able to keep up, where can they find you?
Jodie Slaughter: You can find me on Twitter. As we said earlier, being generally hilarious @JodieSlaughter. And then on Instagram-
Kenrya: Can you spell it for the folks, please?
Jodie Slaughter: Oh yes. Oh, I'm sorry, at J, O, D, I, E, S, L, A, U, G, H, T, E, R, and then on Instagram @Jodie_Slaughter, both of those Jodie and Slaughter spelled the same way.
Kenrya: Awesome. And your website is JodySlaughter.com?
Jodie Slaughter: Yes.
Jodie Slaughter: Of course I forget my website.
Kenrya: That's okay, that's what we're here for.
Erica: That's what we're here for.
Kenrya: It's okay.
Jodie Slaughter: Oh gosh.
Kenrya: Y’all, this has been so fun.
Jodie Slaughter: It was so fun y’all.
Erica: This has been dope as hell.
Kenrya: I needed this, I'm having a high anxiety life.
Jodie Slaughter: I do too. After the night I had, I was nervous. I was like, I hope I can bring the energy, but y'all are just so like so easy to talk to, so fun. I had such a great time. You made my day.
Kenrya: Same! Thank you so much for coming on.
Erica: This is dope.
Jodie Slaughter: It was. Thank you for having me.
Kenrya: Aw, okay. Let me say this. I got to say the thing, that's it for this week's episode of The Turn On, and thank y’all so much for joining us, and hopefully laughing with us, because we had fun. Shit. If nobody else did, we did.
Erica: Murder braids and an all-pink outfit, if that ain't Midwest, that's some shit from the Midwest.
Kenrya: Y’all, I was crying. Oh my God.
Jodie Slaughter: And the Timbs, don't forget the pink Timbs
Erica: Because you saw that on somebody's video.
Jodie Slaughter: The Camron tip, probably, because this was about 2005. I probably saw “Hey Ma” and was like...
Kenrya: “Yes, he's talking to me.”
Erica: Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jodie Slaughter: He's fine too, If we're going to go there.
Kenrya: He is fine.
Jodie Slaughter: Cameron Giles, he is.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to fuck him, but he is fine.
Jodie Slaughter: No, no, no. He seems like more trouble than he's worth, but very hot.
Kenrya: I'll give you that.
Kenrya: Bye y'all.
Jodie Slaughter: Bye y'all.
Erica: This episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Now you can support The Turn On and get off. Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, then drop us a five-star review and you'll be entered to win something that's turning us on. Post your review and email a screenshot to us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com to enter. Our Patreon page is also live. Become a supporter today and access lots of goodies, including two for one raffle entries. Don't forget to send us your book recommendations, and sex and related questions and follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. You can find links to books, merch, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you soon. Holla.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.