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LISTEN TO THE TURN ON Amazon Music | Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Pandora | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon SHOW NOTES This week, Erica and Kenrya talk to author and show fave Jodie Slaughter about the joys of lube, antidepressants and orgasms, being a pillow princess, why terrible people are always willing to jump into relationships and why you need an Aries on your team. RESOURCES Guest, Jodie Slaughter | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook Foria | Website | Discount Code: THETURNON10 Jodie's Recommendations: "A Taste of Her Own Medicine" by Tasha L. Harrison | Bookshop | Amazon "Shots Not Taken" by Nicole Falls|Bookshop | Amazon TRANSCRIPT Kenrya: Come here. Get off. [theme music] Kenrya: Hey y'all. Thanks for coming back. Today, we are talking to ... when I say podcast fave, I need y'all to understand, this is real. Erica: Favorite. Kenrya: There's only a couple of y'all that are like fam and yes. Erica: Yes. Kenrya: So we're so happy to have you back. Who am I talking about? I am talking about Jodie Slaughter, pronouns she and her. Yes. Jodie is a 20-something romance author who's lucky enough to spend most of her days hunched over a computer writing love stories. While her back is definitely suffering, listen, mine too, she wouldn't have it any other way. Kenrya: She loves love, so her novels are full of heart, passion, and heat. When she isn't putting steamy scenes or declarations of devotion on the page, she can normally be found being generally hilarious on Twitter, dreaming about brisket, or consuming way too much television. Hey girl! Jodie Slaughter: Hi. Erica: Yes, voice. Jodie Slaughter: Yes, I'm just trying to get like you, girl. Erica: Girl. Kenrya's like, “Hello.” And I'm like, "Ahh." Jodie Slaughter: I know. I know truly. Erica: So before we even get started, we have a small celebration because, when Jodie was on last time, she was like slaving, doing the nine to five, just working, working for the man. Now this bitch den got a deal, and this hoe done quit her job, and she's just living the dream. Jodie Slaughter: But I'm also like, "Okay y'all, you can't rob me yet." This is like fully the work of like savings from my other job. The fact that I live in Kentucky and like deal stuff. I am not living a high life. Kenrya: Yeah, because that book money is slow, slow. Jodie Slaughter: I drive a 2006 Saturn Ion. Like it's okay. But ... Kenrya: But you're making it happen. Jodie Slaughter: I absolutely am, and I'm very glad I don't have to make it happen going to work every day. Erica: Well, we are proud of you. I was saying like, "Jodie's like baby sister, like-“ Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Erica: So, so happy to see you escaped the clutches of the man and you are like fully pursuing your dreams and making us happy as well as our nibbly bits. Jodie Slaughter: Beautiful. Nibbly bits. Erica: Let's jump in. When do you first remember masturbating? Jodie Slaughter: Oh, since you know I was thinking about this I think pretty ... well, I guess, I was going to say pretty early, but I guess I don't know. I think I hear a lot of like cis women talk about how they didn't discover masturbating until like college. But I think I was like 11. Erica: So here's the thing, most of the women that we interview for this, they're all like young too. Kenrya: I was always like a toddler. Erica: Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I think that's what I remember, but very well may have been a little younger than that, but definitely like 11. Erica: Okay. What was your preferred technique? Jodie Slaughter: Oh, I was a teddy bear humper, 100%. Kenrya: There's so many of y'all. Erica: So many of us were teddy bear humpers. I was a Minnie Mouse humper. There was a Teddy Ruxpin humper. Jodie Slaughter: I had two. I don't know where I got this little white bear because the nose was hard. I'm sick. And I'd be going, I'd be like, "I'm the only one. The nub, it had a hard nub nose, right? Erica: Literally, someone said Teddy Ruxpin, and he had a hard nose. Jodie Slaughter: And then I used to like bend it in half. One day my granny came home with this giant Shrek that was like about ... it was like quite big and a giant donkey. And my sister took the donkey and I took the Shrek, and there were definitely times I would switch between good old teddy bear and Shrek. Yeah. I had that Shrek long after I stopped humping it, probably until I was like 21, I think. It was like such a comforting thing to me. I slept with it every night. Erica: Well, I think that this shows that we all feel like, "Oh my goodness, I'm the only person, as a kid, humping my ... We're all doing the same thing. We just- Jodie Slaughter: I was fully like, "Oh, I'm deviant. Something is not- Erica: ... Like the rest of us. Jodie Slaughter: Thank God. I think I didn't ... I actually did that for a very long time. I didn't like actually like touch myself with my hands until ... well, yeah. I mean, even after I'd already explored with other people, I would masturbate, but not touch myself, like hand on vagina, until like 15. There was something about it that was always like, "This feels scary, or I don't know what it feels like." I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like- Kenrya: it's harder too. I think. Jodie Slaughter: Well, yes. Erica: It's easier to sing the background accompaniment than acapella. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Well, right. That's true. Yeah. That's true. So yeah. Erica: Okay. Kenrya: No, that's real and very common, we're finding out as we're talking folks. I was a pillow girl. Like everybody, they use [inaudible 00:06:04]. Jodie Slaughter: I tried some pillows, but it was never enough. Do you know what I mean? Kenrya: Our couch had the perfect pillows. Jodie Slaughter: Do you know, what's so funny is, I hear ... you hear all those jokes, like on like sitcoms and whatever, about like teenage boys like putting their penis in between the couch cushions and people like, "Boys are so crazy," and I'm like, your daughters are humping everything in the house. Kenrya: Every time you go to sleep. Jodie Slaughter: Constantly. Kenrya: Right. Go to sleep. Take your ass to bed. Jodie Slaughter: Like, truly. Kenrya: Lord. So how old were you when you had your first kiss? Jodie Slaughter: Oh, probably I think 13. Yes, 13. Erica: Was it a [inaudible 00:06:55] or a ... Jodie Slaughter: It was a tongue kiss. Actually. Some of my first like real sexual explorations with another person was with, at the time, I'd like moved to a new school for eighth grade and made this like incredible new best friend. And she was, ... I don't know, she just ... I mean, she changed my life like fully. That's when I was like, "Oh, well maybe I'm not a straight person." But yeah, so my first kiss was with her. And she'd kissed before, and she was like, "Tongue. There's tongue here." So yeah. Yeah. Kenrya: She said, "Keep that little muah away from me." Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yeah. She's like. Kenrya: The fuck is that? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yes, literally. Erica: Okay. So how old were you when you had a sense of your gender identity? Jodie Slaughter: That's actually such an interesting question because I'm like I'm a cis woman and I think I have ... there have been times, I think, as a Black woman, when I've definitely felt the need to like affirm that, or like present it in a way that's maybe a little over the top so that, for some reason, people recognize me as a woman, not a cis woman, just a woman. But I do remember being like ... so I used to straight backs when I was like little- Erica: I remember the story, the straight backs and the pink Timbs. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Like six, seven, eight. Yes, I used to have straight backs, and I went on vacation with a best friend's family, And we were at like a LaQuinta inn at the little continental breakfast thing. And this old white man called me little boy. Jodie Slaughter: And I remember being so like horrified, hurt, humiliated. I don't know, like just not feeling good. And I think that was the first time, because I think before that I was just like, whatever, I'm just a blob floating around. And all of- Kenrya: Until somebody fucking misgendered you. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. And then I was like, "No." And then I also never wore straight backs again after that. It was like I was not used to putting my foot down about my hair. Like I said, my grandmother was a hairdresser, she made all the decisions about my hair, and she was like, "Well, we're putting you in straight backs for the summer because you're wild as hell and I'm not doing your hair every day. Jodie Slaughter: And I remember going back home and being like, "I don't want to wear those braids anymore." And I never did again. Kenrya: That fucking white man taking away your protective styles. Jodie Slaughter: I know, right? And now I literally don't know how to like corn row. Do you know how handy it would ... it would come so in handy right now to be able to like,- Erica: Girl. Jodie Slaughter: And now I don't know how to do it because I was like- Erica: Come on over. I'll do your hair. Jodie Slaughter: I'm coming. Erica: Come on over. Kenrya: She can't braid. Erica: I can't? Jodie Slaughter: It doesn't matter. Erica: [cross talk 00:10:11]. Jodie Slaughter: Period. Kenrya: Okay, you had your first kiss at 13. How old were you when you first started like experimenting sexually with other people? Like was that kind of the kickoff or was it just kissing for a while? Jodie Slaughter: So, actually, it was just kissing for a while. But my friend and I would have phone sex. Kenrya: Word. Jodie Slaughter: And not sexting. Erica: This was the start of your career? Jodie Slaughter: Yes, actually. I think, and it's also totally where I got my like ... I have like a big dirty talk kink. Like it's one of my favorite things about sex. It's one of my favorite things about writing sex and actively having it. And I think it very much does reach back to ... and this, like I said, this wasn't sexting and I didn't have ... this was like 2008, I didn't have my own cell phone. So we would be like ... I'd be like on my grandparents' landline. So it was like very risky. Kenrya: Anybody could have picked up that receiver. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Yes. I had my own phone in my room, but yes. Not my own line or anything. Yeah, so we'd always do it like at night, and that was sort of like it for like a while. Then when I was 16, I actively had sex with a boy. But also, I think, before that I did a lot more like exploring with like my mind and myself, and not so much ... I definitely had friends that were like, "Okay, well first you get fingered, and first you do blow jobs, and then you have sex," but mine was kind of like, "Well, okay. I'll just have sex and then," I guess I was like, "We'll get to that later." So yeah. Erica: Okay. So tell us about the first time you had partnered sex. How old were you? What was it like? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, the first time I partnered sex was with cis boy from my high school. I was 16 years old. It was fine. I had already like penetrated myself, so it wasn't especially painful. Also ,he was like a teenage boy, so it's not like ... Kenrya: He was working with a whole lot of [inaudible 00:12:49]. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Right. So that was like pretty fine. I also had a pretty keen understanding of what turned me on, I think. Like I'd been reading fan fiction by that point, writing it. Like smut. So I had a pretty like ... also like phone sex. I had a pretty keen understanding of like ... I mean, the limited view that you have as a 16-year-old, when it comes to sex. Like, I was pretty ... I was like, "Yeah." Jodie Slaughter: But it was nice. It was like very unassuming. I didn't have an orgasm during like the penetrative sex, but he fingered me before and I did have an orgasm. So I was like, "Okay. " Kenrya: Oh. Cool. Jodie Slaughter: And that was fine. Kenrya: [inaudible 00:13:35]. Jodie Slaughter: Like, yeah. It was fine. But we spent like a little while having sex, and then it ... it got like ... I mean, it was two teenagers having sex, but you know. Yeah. So better, quote-unquote. It got better. Kenrya: As time went on? Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Yeah. I want to say a little under a year. Kenrya: Oh wow. Jodie Slaughter: We slept together. Yeah. Erica: Oh, okay. T. Kenrya: That's like a long time in teenage years. Erica: Teen. Yeah. That's like y'all about to get married. Jodie Slaughter: I was very- Erica: [inaudible 00:14:16] everyone. Jodie Slaughter: That's fair. Erica: [inaudible 00:14:20]. Jodie Slaughter: That's fair. I've always been like, "Wow, that was such a short time," like sort of looking back on it. because you think about that time through the seasons of like when you were in school, and then like when you were not in school, and when you were in school again, that type of thing. Jodie Slaughter: But yeah. He was like hot, sad boy. Do you know what I mean? Erica: Yes. Just what the angsty teen needed. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Kenrya: That hit the spot. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Kenrya: I think about how many people ... I mean, there are folks who I was in relationships with in high school, whose names I don't remember, who lasted for, I don't know, a week where we was going together. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, that's fair. Kenrya: When we walked to class together. You know what I'm saying? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Kenrya: So I can't even think of nobody that lasted that fucking long. Jodie Slaughter: I mean, that's so interesting because I'm like, ... now I'm like, "Okay, I'm comparing like what my dating life is now to then." And I was never a, "Let's be my boyfriend/girlfriend type of ... and actually, I'm going to say boyfriend because in high school, even though I knew I was bisexual, I would not have dated a girl publicly, to be honest. It would've been, that was like terrifying to me, and caused the fallout ultimately of me and that friend. Jodie Slaughter: But I was never a ... I had this one boyfriend and like kind of just because I didn't know how to say, "No, I don't want to be your girlfriend," so I just said yes. And like, to his credit, he ... I, genuinely, even looking back on it with like fresh eyes, he like wasn't forceful. I think we literally, we dated for like six months when we were 15, we kissed like once. That's how much I was not ... Jodie Slaughter: And then I was like, "Yeah, I think I'm okay on the boyfriend thing." So this guy wasn't my boyfriend. I mean, we'd like go to Wendy's and have sex at his mom's house. Kenrya: Whatever that means as a kid. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. But he wasn't my boyfriend and I, in high school, I did not have ... I didn't really date. Erica: Okay. So what three words would you use to describe your sexual experiences from your teens? In your teens. Jodie Slaughter: Fast. Experimentational. Experimental? Either one, one of those. I'm a writer. And funny. Erica: You want to tell us more? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Well, fast, I think for pretty obvious reasons. But also, I always like to ... I have been lucky enough to not have tons of issues orgasming. I'm a pretty hair trigger type of person. Well, I mean, not like, but- yes. Kenrya: You know what you're doing. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. So, I mean, fast because you know, for obvious reasons, like he wasn't lasting long and I wasn't either. Experimentational because this would've been like 2011, so I was definitely just getting on Tumblr and learning about ... I was actively trying to like ... thinking about certain kink things that I was like kind of just learning. Erica: All right, go Tumblr. Jodie Slaughter: I know, right. Right? Kenrya: They did that to their selves. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. 100% fully self-immolation. And he was like kind of just along for the ride, do you know what I mean? He was like, "Yeah. Okay." I mean, he wasn't like hesitant. Like I wasn't like, "Okay, we're doing this," but like spanking and stuff like that, like light stuff. But I was like, "Okay, I'm into this, and maybe I kind of don't like this," or some things I learned that I just didn't like. With him, whatever. Jodie Slaughter: And then funny because when I think back on it, I think about how hilarious it is because like buying the condoms was always like a big deal, and I wasn't on birth control, so I was like, we're going to use a condom, but you're also going to pull out." And it was just like, I it's just like a ... it's like sitcom shit to me when I think back on it. Jodie Slaughter: But overall, like nice, I think, generally. Erica: Okay. Kenrya: Word. Yeah. That's pretty dope. And also really, I, I think that perhaps people maybe would think experimental makes sense as teens, but also, I think a lot of folks don't actually experiment very much when they're that young. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. That's right. And now, granted, I was poisoned by the internet young. I think that is a really like important part of the specific spaces I was inhabiting online from like age 12-13, on. Had their absolute definite drawbacks on poisoning my brain, but also on like sort of making me feel comfortable having like autonomy over my own pleasure. So yeah. Kenrya: I'm struck by ... so you know we're 40, and when we were in our teens, we had AOL dial up. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yeah. Kenrya: And we had to put, fully put a fucking DVD into the machine, and you had to connect to your ... put your phone cord in the back of the computer, and go through the whole situation. And so, we didn't have all of that. When we get Google ... I distinctly remember getting Google when I was in undergrad- Jodie Slaughter: Getting Google. Kenrya: Yes. I remember in writing class and my teacher- Jodie Slaughter: I remember getting an email address. Kenrya: Well, I had an email address. I had an AOL address. Jodie Slaughter: I think I was born with an email address. Kenrya: My kid was, yeah. Jodie Slaughter: When I was in high school, my best friend, who is still one of my best friends, had an AOL ... @aol.com, and we used to make fun of her because we'd be like, "It's 1200, why do you have an AOL email address?" Kenrya: And there are still people who do. Jodie Slaughter: I think she's kept it for prosperity's sake, but- Erica: Yeah, at like at this point [inaudible 00:21:28]. Jodie Slaughter: We're like, girl Kenrya: I had to email somebody for something the other day and it was a Hotmail account. I was just like, "Hey." Jodie Slaughter: How is that possible? Kenrya: Listen, that's just their [inaudible 00:21:38]. Jodie Slaughter: At hotmail dot com Kenrya: It's just still real. But I'm struck by the way that technology really did play a role. Even if you hadn't necessarily been in those specific spaces, the fact that you could. We just didn't have ... we had, turn the TV the right way and maybe you can see some Skinemax at night. Right? Like we just- Jodie Slaughter: Well, that's actually also a thing. We had all the channels, and we were also one of those families who had like ... there was a TV in my room. So we got like HBO. So I would watch- Kenrya: “Real Sex.” Jodie Slaughter: “Real Sex.” And then I would also watch “The L Word,” which was like incredibly sexy. Well, there was a lot of sex. I'm looking at this through like every 27-year-old eyes, trying to, a few months ago, trying to go back and rewatch the old one and being like, "Oh my God." Erica: [inaudible 00:22:34] again. Jodie Slaughter: But also, there were these movies that would come on, like anything that had sex was like titillating to me. Have you guys seen “Not Another Teenage Movie”? Kenrya: Yeah, I think so. Jodie Slaughter: It's like a satire comedy parody of like teen movies from the late nineties and early two thousands. And so a lot of it is like, if you watched it now, whether or not you find it funny, a lot of the sex jokes are like overwrought and like ... it's satire. Jodie Slaughter: I fully remember like being very excited if I would flip through the channels and that movie would come on, because I'd be like, "Oh, I'm about to get horny because there's a legit scene where like an elderly woman is making out with like a woman who's like 20. And I remember being like, "Oh," because it's one of those things where it's just like it's sex. And so it's like, "Oh my God. Wow." Erica: They're doing it, they're doing it, they're doing it." Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, literally. If a movie talked about sex, I was like, I was all over it. So that was very much a part of it too. But yeah. Kenrya: Wow. So then our follow-up question is what three words would you use to describe your sexual experiences in your twenties? Jodie Slaughter: Lord. Better. Actually, that's hard. And I should have thought about these, but I was like thinking all day and I was like, "I don't know. I'm I'll just do it on the spot and it'll be fine." Okay, so better- Kenrya: It's hard. Jodie Slaughter: It is hard. Hard. No. I think better, intimate, in a way that they were not before, and assured, confident, something along those lines. Better, just because, obviously, the more sex you have, the better you care about yourself, the ... when you get partners who give a about like making you feel good, obviously the sex is going to be better, and who know what they're doing. Jodie Slaughter: What was the second word I said? Kenrya: Oh. Better. Shit. Jodie Slaughter: I literally- Kenrya: Your last one was assured and confident. Jodie Slaughter: Me too. Kenrya: The second one was- Jodie Slaughter: Oh, intimate. Erica: Oh, yeah. because I was like, "Ooh, that's a good one." Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: In my twenties, is sort of like the first time I'd experience like love in sex, or even, if not love, just like deep, deep fondness and like feeling like I was being cared for. And so I think a lot of the experiences were significantly more intimate, even if they were like simple, like two people missionary in a bed, under the covers, like than some shit I did when I was 19, where like- One hand on neck, one hand on frontal. Kenrya: Has its benefits, to be clear. Jodie Slaughter: Oh. Oh. Please do not misunderstand. Why are you being weird to me? And then, just so for sure, just because I ... and this is actually recent. This is like in the past year or two, I do feel sex, to me, has felt better, the better I felt about myself. So yeah. Kenrya: I love that. Jodie Slaughter: Thank you. I'm glad. Kenrya: So you've told us about your first time. What's another experience that really ... like I think we all have experiences that maybe were kind of not so great. But what's something that stands out to you that you are ... like the kind of thing that you just sometimes flash back to and remember fondly. Erica: What you got to call upon when you doing the do, when you're masturbating alone. Ooh, that one time. Jodie Slaughter: Oh, do you know what? Okay. Actually, so we're going to get into my very ... because there's a question on here where we're going to get into my very bizarre masturbating thoughts, but I'll bring it up, I don't think about sex I've had when I masturbate. Erica: Oh God. Kenrya: Oh, I don't either, actually. Not really. Jodie Slaughter: And I feel like most people are like, "Oh, I just think about that." And I'm like, "No." I also don't think about people, like specific people really. But anyway. So, but okay. Jodie Slaughter: I'm going to, because this is a thing that has been bolstering me in the past weeks, and it's an experience that I had actually relatively recently, a few months ago. And I think it's so significant to me because I hadn't been touched by another person in like ... or do you know what I mean? That wasn't my mom or my sister, in like a year and a half. Hadn't been like kissed, hadn't been anything. And then in like May, I decided, "Okay, well maybe like we're vaccinated, maybe we can like start like dating. And so I had this like brief fling with this man and it was like totally fine. It was nice. Jodie Slaughter: We went out on a date and after we like eat lunch, we're sitting on this bench and he just kind of brings up how on the ride there, because he came and got me, actually, he'd been thinking about asking if he could touch my thigh, but didn't because he didn't know if that would be too forward. And I was like, because I ... a couple days before that the date had already been planned, and I had dreamed about him touching my thigh in the car, and I woke up and was just like so horny, I could hardly move. Jodie Slaughter: And I was like, "Oh, this is how like touch starved I am. That was what ... And so, whatever, when we get back into the car, I take his hand, I put it on my thigh. Anyway, worst comes worse ... I mean, not worst comes to worse. He fingers me in the car and it's maybe the best orgasm I've had in like a good long time. Jodie Slaughter: And so I've been thinking about that for weeks, because that is no longer. And I think it's just like it's not that it's the best thing I've ever done sexually or the best experience I've ever had, but it just stands out to me as sort of like the pure euphoria that I felt after going so long without, and also we kissed as a well, so without ... for just like was kind of ... I'm not sure I'd ever like really felt that before. And I was like, "Wow, I'm really going to appreciate sex in a different way coming out of a pandemic." Kenrya: Yeah, that's real. Erica: I need that in a short story. Like the dream, the date, the ask, and like I just ... Give me a short story, please and thank you. Jodie Slaughter: It was very nice. And he ... I mean, not to like, because like I said, that's no longer, but he was a pretty big dude. He was like six-three, and was training for like strong man competitions. So he lifted logs. Erica: Wow. Jodie Slaughter: You know what I mean? Or like they have imitation logs. Yeah. And so his hands were like very rough and callous, and like fat, like meaty fingers. Turkish fingers. Wait, that's awful. But it was nice. Erica: You are writing this. You're writing this. Your description ... please and thank you. Jodie Slaughter: Anyway- Erica: That's all I'm going to say. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yeah. Kenrya: And it's a good reminder, right? That people can flit in and flit out, and [inaudible 00:31:47]. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. And give you experiences that are like, that I will ... I think I will be thinking about that moment for, maybe, forever. I just feel like, spent the pandemic ... now, obviously there was a pandemic and there was a million other things going on. There was like my own mental health, and so I'm ... you're just like being wound tighter and tighter, and tighter, and tighter. And it didn't take a lot for me to like have this incredible euphoric release. And I was like, "Wow." So yeah, that one. Erica: That's beautiful. I'm here for it, for you. I'm here for it. So what does your sex life look like right now? Jodie Slaughter: Oh God. So my sex life right now is like ... It's not nonexistent, but ... okay, so I'm on Prozac. I'm on an SSRI. Kenrya: Listen, we just had this fucking conversation. Erica: I had to come off because it killed my pussy. My pussy was dead. Kenrya: And my neurologist had tried to put me on it. And, E, I didn't even tell you this. I talked to her, I was like, "Yeah, my bestie said that it killed her pussy." I was like, "I don't want it," and she was like, "Okay. We'll find something else." Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. No. Fully. Okay, so I have a recent OCD diagnosis. What I thought was a generalized anxiety disorder is actually obsessive compulsive disorder. And so- Kenrya: I was about to say. I got GAD, she got OCD. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Kenrya: Hey girl. Jodie Slaughter: Listen. And so, right now, the Prozac is like the best thing for me. But, no, and it literally sucks having to like ... but it hasn't killed, it's just that I think I used to be like- Kenrya: it's a harder to come now. Jodie Slaughter: Masturbate like every ... it's harder. It's harder, for sure. Like I said, hair trigger. I can for like 40 minutes until I have an orgasm. Like rub myself raw. And I'm normally, I'm the type of bitch who's like, "All right, I need to go to bed in 10 minutes. Let's get one out in three so we can sleep." Like, that's how I used to be. And now that ... and part of me does wonder if that's largely because I've, not become bored with myself, but I do wonder like, "Okay, how is it going to be if I introduce a partner and have someone else stimulating me?" Kenrya: Or a new toy. Jodie Slaughter: So yeah. I'm like ... Erica: You don't like toys? Jodie Slaughter: So analog. I do, but I'm very sensitive, and so I find that like the suckers, I can't. They hurt. And I'm not ... I enjoy being penetrated, like during sex, and then being fingered and stuff. But when I'm masturbating, I'm not really- Erica: Straight to the clit. Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. It's like that's not- Erica: I have a toy to show you when when we're over. Jodie Slaughter: Okay. Yes, please. Erica: You know, I think that that's ... I'm happy that you're talking about this because I think so many people, like with me, when I started Prozac, I felt like a new person. I was like, "Yo, is this how normal people live?" Like everything calmed down- Jodie Slaughter: And then your libido is like, "We're going to go all the way down too with the-“ Erica: [cross talk 00:35:38] Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Erica: I think that Jodie Slaughter: Serotonin goes up, we go down. Exactly. Erica: But I also think it's important that we remember that we can have it all. We deserve it all. So if that mean you got to holler at your doctor and say, "Hey,- Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, 100%. Erica: They kind stepped me down on Prozac and we were trying something else. So I, so I didn't feel the like- Jodie Slaughter: Cut off. Extreme- Erica: Didn't feel like I felt before. but yeah, girl. That- Kenrya: All that to say that it may be worth you having a really frank convers- ... like I said, because of what she told me, I went to my neurologist and was like, "I don't want that. Let's find something else." And so maybe you can find something that gives you that calm and that peace, but also lets you still be able to come in three minutes. Jodie Slaughter: Literally. Erica: Because I also will say- Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, I honestly should. Erica: I had those same questions. I was like, "Well, my broke." Is it because ... like is partners? Is it toys? Like what is it? And then I was working out, I changed my diet, all of this, because I was like, "It's got to be something." No, it was the Prozac. Jodie Slaughter: It's the Prozac. Fully, it's the Prozac. When I went on Prozac, I think I genuinely ... it wasn't ... I knew that it was like a side effect of SSRIs, in general, but I was like, "Oh, well. Maybe it just won't happen to me." So I tried to just not think about it. And, yeah, that's not ... I mean, because I'm trying to ... I mean, I know people say cuffing season doesn't exist, but it does. And it's about to get cool and- Erica: It does. Jodie Slaughter: And I'm trying to get cuffed, over and over and over again. Erica: I want my butt to hurt from something other than [inaudible 00:37:39] Jodie Slaughter: I bought a Theragun in preparation. Erica: Yes. Kenrya: I have one too. Nobody in my house likes it except for me. Jodie Slaughter: It feels so ... it's beautifully painful. Kenrya: Yeah. My partner was always like, "Oh no." Jodie Slaughter: Yup. You're so tense. I remember like I was with my mom. You know you're just like laying in your mom's bed or whatever, and she like tried to must massage. And I was like, "Ugh!" And she was like, "How are you this tense? How is it possible? And I was like ... But yeah. Kenrya: Same. But I like it. Jodie Slaughter: I love mine. Love it. Kenrya: So okay, we were going to ask about masturbation later, but I feel like we should ask about it now. So what ... I'm guessing you're not still using your little white bear or Shrek, so is it just digitally? What's your thing? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I tend to go analog, with my fingers. What has helped me, the Prozac with like ... is using lube. Which like everybody should be using lube. It's fantastic. Kenrya: Yes. It is. It makes everything better. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, that is one of those things that's not actively like promoted if you're like a cis woman. Like you know what I mean? Erica: [inaudible 00:39:03]. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, in your twenties. Kenrya: Exactly. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So I found that that's worked. I would love to get my hands on a cannaube. I think it might change my life. But anyway. Yeah. And so I tend to just like analog, but I- Kenrya: I want to say Foria has, I mean they- Jodie Slaughter: They do, they have the CBD, don't they? Kenrya: Yeah. And it's I have ... I looked toward this room because it's right ... Mine are right over there. Jodie Slaughter: Oh really? Kenrya: Yeah. Their lubes are actually pretty damn good. Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: Have you tried the suppositories? Kenrya: Yes. I use them all the time. So we use For- ... we both. Yeah. And I have a ton of Foria in here. Jodie Slaughter: Oh bet. Kenrya: So the suppositories I use for two different things. I use them when I'm on my period because I have dysmenorrhea, and it is incredibly painful, and so that helps. I insert those vaginally to help kind of calm everything down. And then I also use them anally to help open things up. And they are both lovely. Jodie Slaughter: Do the capsules come out or do they just disintegrate into your body? Kenrya: They disintegrate. Jodie Slaughter: Beautiful. Kenrya: I find that it's good to put them in the fridge for a few minutes before you start because they soften so fast that you want to make sure you can get them all the way up in there before they start to fall apart. Jodie Slaughter: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kenrya: You put them in the fridge for 10 minutes before you go, and they just melt very lovely. Jodie Slaughter: That's always the only thing I was terrified about when it came to suppositories. I was like, "Am I going to have to like root around for the little [inaudible 00:40:38] Kenrya: No. So you open a little plastic and it is like a little- Jodie Slaughter: Oh. Kenrya: If I could get up and get one, I would right now, but it's like a little thing and then you just stick it up in there. Jodie Slaughter: Beautiful. Kenrya: It smells like cocoa butter. Jodie Slaughter: Okay. Because I have gotten some Foria CBD on your recommendation before, and I did enjoy it, but I think I realized that like regular CBD for like taking it just like orally, just kind of wasn't because you know ... This is like pretty good enough for me. Kenrya: And it's more effective when you pair with a THC product. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. But which would be great, but I think I'm going to try their lube out. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: Good. Definitely. Yeah. And they, they just reintroduced their vape pen too. Because apparently they had to stop shipping it because UPS and FedEx won't, but they're shipping that too. And I have one of those and it's pretty dope. Jodie Slaughter: Ooh. Okay. Okay. I'm going to get some. I'll let you know how it goes. I will. Erica: Use our code so you can save some money. Jodie Slaughter: I will. You have to tell ... is it, do you do I know what it is? You have to send it to me. Erica: THETURNON10 is the code. Jodie Slaughter: THETURNON10. Kenrya: There you go. Jodie Slaughter: Beautiful. Erica: I literally sent a recommendation to someone this morning. Jodie Slaughter: Oh, good. Erica: They're like, "I knew you'd have something." Kenrya: Yeah, no, it's actually really great product. I still have those bath salts I haven't used yet. Erica: I haven't used the bath. Jodie Slaughter: Oh yeah. Sexy bath. Erica: I'm going ... I have a little tiny bathtub, but I'm going on a ... going away, and so I'll have a big bathtub- Jodie Slaughter: A sneaky link? Erica: Girl, I wish. I'm going to the Sex Down South conference. Jodie Slaughter: Oh, where is that? Erica: Atlanta. Jodie Slaughter: Oh, of course. Literally, where else would it possibly be? Yeah. Erica: Black freaks. It's still open in spite of everything. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Atlanta. Erica: Even with the CDC in their backyard, but that's neither here nor there. Jodie Slaughter: The CDC will be there too. You think it won't be hell if CDC [inaudible 00:42:48]. Erica: You probably right. You probably right. Are there certain times of day that are best for you to have sex? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. I like ... whatever it is about like 6:30, I got so much energy. It's like 6:30 PM. Kenrya: Really? Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Kenrya: Bitch. Jodie Slaughter: So much energy. Kenrya: I had to take a nap. Y'all so we are doing this interview, we got on at 6:30, I had to take a nap. Okay, I have chronic fatigue, so if I don't take a nap, then I'm all fucked up. But like, yeah buddy, that nap, because otherwise y'all my eyes wouldn't even be open right now. Jodie Slaughter: 6:30 is great for me. Erica: That's your magic hour. Jodie Slaughter: Especially because I'm also one of those people who's like, "Okay. The logistics of like having sex at like 10:00 PM Are like, "Okay, cute." Right. But then I don't want to shower at 11. Erica: Yeah. I got to wash my face. I got to brush my teeth. Jodie Slaughter: I have to wash my face. Yes. Erica: I got to do my hair. You know, put my hair up. Jodie Slaughter: You've got all that stuff. It's just too much. It's too much. 6:30 is beautiful. Middle- Kenrya: If the world were open and you were going on a date, are you like a, "Let's have sex before we go to dinner," kind of person? Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Always. I'm a let's have sex before we cook dinner, let's have sex before we order dinner. Yes. Yes. G. Erica: Let's get this out the way. Jodie Slaughter: It's literally the most perfect ... it's like sex followed by food. Kenrya: Yes. Yeah. I'm really fond of ordering dinner and then having sex, and then being able to go get the food from [inaudible 00:44:33] Jodie Slaughter: Right. When it's ... Yes. Yes. Let's talk about contactless delivery. Erica: Yeah, it's like, "Leave it on the porch, honey. I come get it when I get it." Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. Kenrya: That shit might be cold, but it's okay. I got an air fryer. Jodie Slaughter: Period. Same. Erica: How long does a session typically last? Jodie Slaughter: Masturbating or partnered sex? Erica: Like partnered sex. Jodie Slaughter: Ooh, I don't know. I guess that like kind of depends. It also, like when I'm with ... if I'm having sex with women, it tends to ... I was going to say meander, but that sounds like monotony, and that's not what I mean. Just, it tends to last a little longer, just because like ... I don't know. Erica: You're able to- Jodie Slaughter: Bitches are horny. Like that's, you know? Erica: Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: I mean, fully, men are less horny. If I'm with like a dude, I think a good like 35 minutes is fine. You know? Kenrya: You're like that's [inaudible 00:45:48]. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. No, no, no, no. I mean, not unless, like if I'm really keyed up, you know what I mean? Like not, well I think that means something that maybe I didn't mean to, for it to mean. If I'm just like kind of wired. You know what I mean? And honestly, sometimes maybe if I'm like quite anxious or if I'm ... Like if we've had a wild night out, I'm actually not one of those drunk people who falls asleep right then. Like I probably can go for like an hour, hour and a half. Like that type of thing. Because I don't get like blackout, I get like to the point where I'm like, "This is fun," and then I stop. Jodie Slaughter: So I do guess it kind of depends, but my general preference is like a good 35 minutes. Erica: Okay. Where do you typically do it? Jodie Slaughter: Oh, here at my place. Not in the bed because I don't ... I mean yes, in the bed, but I'm not trying to wash the sheets constantly and like I am a millennial, so I only have two changes of sheets. So I mean, it's like sheets are expensive and I have my favorite two pairs, so I just cycle back and forth. Erica: Listen, I have my favorite one pair. Kenrya: [cross talk 00:47:13] we're ... Right. I'm like we're ... what do they call us? Geriatric millennial. Erica: Yeah. Geriatric millennial. Jodie Slaughter: That's fucked up. Kenrya: It is fucked up. Because we were born in '81, so we're right there. And I literally, I have probably five sets of sheets, but I have two favorites, and I just [inaudible 00:47:32] Erica: I have like three ... no, I have three sets, one favorite, and most of the time, it's is the favorite that get like the wear. Jodie Slaughter: Just the rewash. Erica: Wash them and put them back on or whatever. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Fully. I like the couch. I have a big couch. I like the floor. Erica: Them good young knees. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. That's true. Erica: I literally, when you said the floor, I was like, "Oh, my knees." Kenrya: I want to say it's been a while since I tried the floor and it definitely hurt. Erica: I literally started like popping my knees, like, "Ooh, girl." I was doing ankle rotations and shit. Jodie Slaughter: I'm screaming. Kenrya: This what you got to look forward to, and it doesn't mean it's not [inaudible 00:48:16], it just means you got to know your limitations. Erica: Put a pillow down. Just put a pillow down. Jodie Slaughter: Put a pillow down. Well, I still do that. Girl. Erica: Girl. But we can't, even with that, we can't ... [inaudible 00:48:27] Jodie Slaughter: On the bed, but with like a blanket that I'll use on top. Yeah. Also, I mean, if you've read any of my books, you'd know fucking in cars is my thing. Kenrya: On cars. Jodie Slaughter: In cars. It's whenever I can make it happen. And also, whenever I can make it happen at a place that is not my place. Yes, please. You know what I mean? Kenrya: I love it. Jodie Slaughter: Preferably, where do you want to have sex? Preferably yours. Erica: Right? And then I'll go home on my and sleep on my clean sheets. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. And you don't want a bunch of niggas in your house anyway. Kenrya: Yes. Keep that energy. Erica: I was just about to say, I don't need that energy being [inaudible 00:49:19] Kenrya: So, okay, we ask this question, and I think sometimes people think it's obvious, but then you think about it. So the question is: what's your favorite part of having sex? Jodie Slaughter: Oh. The anticipation of ... okay. Well, actually, wait. You see how much of a- Kenrya: Some of us be like... Jodie Slaughter: ... how much of a hoe I am, that I wasn't even thinking about what it might mean to like have a partner who you have sex with like- Erica: No, I see it all the time. And I always say, "new dick." Kenrya: That could be the best part. Jodie Slaughter: Okay. The anticipation of like being with someone new, even if it's not necessarily for the first time, but like the ... I don't know, there can be like a playfulness and like learning, and that is kind of my favorite. It's like, "Oh my God. Everything's just like, you're brand new." Erica: What's this [inaudible 00:50:27]. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah. Yes. That's, that's my favorite part, to me. That's how much of a hoe I am, because I literally ... It didn't even occur to me that it might mean- Erica: With the same with the partner. Jodie Slaughter: With a partner you love deeply and who you have beautiful sex with. And I'm just like, "Nope." Kenrya: I think a lot of folks are like, "Coming." And I'm like, "Okay, but there could be great parts too, right? Jodie Slaughter: Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and obviously, I like learning how new/different people talk dirty to me. Or like being talked to. That's also a good one for me. Kenrya: Yeah. That's what's up. Okay. What's the most frustrating part? Jodie Slaughter: Oh God. Like figuring out how it all fits and works, and when your bodies are different. Do you know what I mean? I feel like that's not such a ... it's not a part you think about a ton, or at least I didn't think about a ton. But it's like, "Okay, both of us are chubby. How are we going to ... okay, we're going to have sex on this couch. All right, how are we going to make this work?” Jodie Slaughter: And then there's also like, I don't know ... when reality happens and motherfuckers get tired in the middle of the shit, and you're like, "Okay, so how, how do we end this correctly?" Jodie Slaughter: Like that, getting tired, I mean, I see all those memes on Twitter where dudes are like, "When you tell her to get on top," and everybody's like, "Ah," and I'm like, "But yeah, though." Erica: I don't want to. That's why I like it on the side because everybody gets to rest. Everybody gets to rest. Kenrya: See, I like to be on top. And my partner just recently was like, "So how are we going to do this when you turn 70?" He said, "Because- Jodie Slaughter: You are not- Kenrya: He was like, "Because you are not going to get your ass up here." He was like, "Your knees is already popping." I was like, "Nigga, this is my favorite. We will figure it out. Jodie Slaughter: They have little chairs. Kenrya: And we looked at those months ago. It's like a little thing that you sit on top. You know what it looks like? It looks like the suitcase rack that you get to see in a hotel. Jodie Slaughter: No. No. Kenrya: And it's got a space. Jodie Slaughter: No. Kenrya: And you sit on there. And then you can bounce. Jodie Slaughter: Imagine. Okay. I'm trying to imagine like ... Oh God. Lord, forgive me. I'm trying to imagine, which I never like to imagine, but like my mother's homegoing and you go through her shit, and finding like, "Oh wow, this is granny's ring." You find her fuck chair and you're like, "Fuck." What do you do with it? Who gets the fuck chair? Do we donate it? Kenrya: You pass that shit down like an heirloom. Jodie Slaughter: Do we donate it? Erica: Her spirit is in this. Kenrya: I fully intend to still be riding it when I'm 70, so whatever it takes. Jodie Slaughter: I like riding it like reverse cowgirl, where I can like do something. Erica: [inaudible 00:53:56] the same person. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Otherwise, no thanks. Erica: Yeah, he don't need a show. Like you want to look at my booty anyway. Jodie Slaughter: Literally. Otherwise, pillow prince me, pillow princess me. Erica: Let me lay down. We can both relax. Jodie Slaughter: And, see, and that's fair. Right? because like, I think Kenrya is like, "I like the control." Kenrya: I do. Jodie Slaughter: That's the opposite of what I'm into, in a sexual situation. So I'm very much about like, "No, take it." You know what I mean? And not that you can't from on top, but you know ... Kenrya: That happens later. See, I get mine. Jodie Slaughter: Okay, but do you also like, "I'll ride it for like two minutes and then- Kenrya: So here's the thing. Especially if it's been like a few days, I literally, I'll get up there and I'll be like, I'm going to be a fuckboy." And he'll be like, "All right." So me being a fuckboy means I come in like three minutes. Jodie Slaughter: Period. Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Wait, I'm sorry. That's being a fuckboy? Kenrya: That's what we call it, is me being a fuckboy. It's when I can't last, and when I just, I come, and then- Erica: Oh, honey. I'm a fuckboy nonstop. Kenrya: And then we get to switch. Jodie Slaughter: I call that, "I'm about to use it." Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah, that's essentially what it is. Jodie Slaughter: I'm using you. Kenrya: And then we switch positions, and then he can get his, and I'll go get mine again, because that's just how I do. Jodie Slaughter: Period. Kenrya: But like, yeah. So I like it because it works. I know exactly what to do, he knows exactly what to do. Jodie Slaughter: She said, "We're efficient. Kenrya: Yes. Jodie Slaughter: This is good old fashioned ... Kenrya: And the whole thing may end up being 40 minutes, 50 minutes, however long, but I get mine. And then, because I come multiple times ... thank you, Lord ... that's just the beginning. It's like once you break that- Jodie Slaughter: The seal. Kenrya: The seal. Yeah. So you break the seal in the most efficient way and then I'm good. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kenrya: You want to keep going is fine, because I'm going to come again. Jodie Slaughter: The thing is I have like two in me, per session, maybe. And I'm actually normally okay with one. Now, just because I might not come when you go down on me doesn't mean I don't want you to do it. And that doesn't mean I can't, but I'm normally like edging myself type thing. Because I want to come during the intercourse. Jodie Slaughter: But I'm normally like one is like, "Yeah, great." And then like an hour later, I might, but I really can't ... my body is just like, will not let me have more than two. Kenrya: I have hit- Jodie Slaughter: Sad. Devastating. Kenrya: Well, first of all, there's a lot of folks who can't come at all. Jodie Slaughter: That's true. Yeah. Kenrya: So I thank God for orgasm period. I think my record is four or five. that doesn't happen often, two or three is more usual. Yeah, and that's gotten increasing, that's increased as I've gotten older and been with partners who I was more in tune with, and got more in tune with my body, and introduced toys and positions, and things like that, that I know are great for me. So yeah. Jodie Slaughter: No, that's [inaudible 00:57:11]. Kenrya: That's pretty fucking dope. Jodie Slaughter: I think I've also done maybe four or five in a day, but I was also like fully by myself. I know, I remember exactly that day, and I don't know why I was so horny, but I was just masturbating. And also, probably a total of 30 minutes throughout the day, knowing me because this was pre-Prozac. Kenrya: [inaudible 00:57:31] Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Taking the bitches the off. Yes. Erica: Do you ever have trouble turning off the day, turning off your day and just focusing on bodily pleasure? Jodie Slaughter: Oh absolutely. Absolutely. Like I wouldn't say more times than not, but I'd say like a good 40% of the time I've had trouble turning off the day, relaxing enough to like let myself feel pleasure. Kenrya: Anxiety's a funky bitch. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yes. And like even when you're not actively anxious in that moment, you're still, you're so tense. Like you're just constantly so tense that it can make it hell. Like, I definitely have had moments like with people where I've been like, "Well I'm definitely horny and let's try," and then I've had to be like, "Okay, well I'm going to just have to suck your dick because, and I would like to do that because I want to ... but this just I'm it's just not going to happen for me." So yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. I've had that happen. Jodie Slaughter: Oh yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. Where we got into and I was like, "You know what? I actually-“ Jodie Slaughter: Don't. I can't, I'm not into it. No. Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, "And I want you to feel good. So here or you know." Or it's like, "Well I'll just watch you jerk off." Which I learned that- Kenrya: Whatever works. Jodie Slaughter: Yes, it does. Learned that from that [inaudible 00; 00:59:10] Kenrya: And then sometimes, I know for me, once I say that and then I'm like, "Oh, let me just suck your dick," sometimes then that gets me like further into it. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yeah. Kenrya: Just like switching it up and taking the focus and the pressure off of my own pleasure and putting it on my partner's pleasure. Jodie Slaughter: Putting it on someone else's, yeah. Kenrya: Ends up making me be like, "Oh, okay. Now we can." Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fully. Kenrya: Yeah. That's real shit. If you could change anything about your sex life by just like snapping your fingers, what would you change? Jodie Slaughter: Okay. So if I could change anything about my sex life, and I'm going to choose right now, because I don't have a ton of regrets about ... I mean, yeah, about the past. I mean, you do, but like, you know what I mean? It's like, "Yeah, it all got me to here," or whatever bullshit. Jodie Slaughter: I think it would be, I'd have more of one than I do right now. My sex life is sort of nonexistent right now, but it's like sort of the combination of like obviously being in a pandemic and like being a little terrified. And I'm one of those people who works better in person. Online or like apps have never worked for me when it comes to like actually getting sex. Kenrya: I saw you tweeting about your misadventures. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. It's just like, it's so much easier for me to be turned off very easily. And on an app setting, just because I think there's very little context and I can't like look into someone's eyes, look at someone's face, and really get a gauge on where they're at. And it makes it really difficult for me. Jodie Slaughter: And also I'm very funny and witty an- Kenrya: Yeah, you are. Jodie Slaughter: I am also like that via text and other people are not. And so I'm like, "You're boring. You're boring." Even though I know that like if I met them in person, it might be completely different. So I prefer meeting people in person. That's obviously been harder. Jodie Slaughter: And then also, I've been in a very like mushy, I want to be in love mood recently. And I'd change that because it's making me want to have less casual sex. And I'd change that because I don't want that. I want that to go away. Erica: Yeah. There are certain songs, like there's this one song that I hear and I'm like, "I can't, I'm not in the space." Jodie Slaughter: I write romance! Erica: I'm going to make a bad, I'm going to make a poor decision. Like I don't need that. Jodie Slaughter: Look, because- Kenrya: What's the song? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. What song? Erica: It's so old, but "Best Part" is it- Jodie Slaughter: It's oh, by H.E.R.? Kenrya: Oh, H.E.R. Yeah. Erica: Is it Daniel? Jodie Slaughter: Daniel Caesar. Erica: Yeah. And Daniel Caesar's ass. Yeah. It's a good song. Kenrya: It's just like I don't fuck with him. Jodie Slaughter: Who does? Fuck him. Erica: I know, but the song just feels like- Kenrya: He fumbled all of that. The song is beautiful. Jodie Slaughter: Gorgeous. Erica: Saturday morning, rolling over and having sex with your partner that you've been with forever. Jodie Slaughter: Oh I know. Erica: So when I listen to ... yeah, I can't listen to it because I'm going to make a shitty decision. Jodie Slaughter: I know. And it's nothing to hop into a relationship with somebody trash. Trash people are always ready to hop into a relationship. Kenrya: This is fucking true. Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: It's nothing. It's nothing. Kenrya: Nothing. Damn. Yeah. They are fucking plentiful and ready to go. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. And then you waste a year of your life. Kenrya: If you lucky. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Right. Well right. If you're lucky. So it sucks. I write fucking romance novels. Kenrya: And how do you get away from the- Jodie Slaughter: I have to constantly ... I know. And I mean, it's like, granted, I do know that I'm half playing when I'm like, "I don't want it." Truthfully, it is what I want. I'm getting to a place in my mental health, my age, where I'm realizing that I guess I probably do want to settle down. It doesn't necessarily have to be a marriage, but like ... and also, I'm boringly monogamous. In most ... like I'm cool with like threesomes and sex clubs, and stuff like that. But when it comes to full out polyamory, I think I just don't have the emotional bandwidth, nor the level of involvement that it takes. Kenrya: Same. Jodie Slaughter: For that. Erica: We the same people. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So- Erica: Like, I mean, I'm fine sharing you while we fucking, but like I don't need no emotional shit. Jodie Slaughter: No, no, no, no, no. And I'm a Leo, I'm very much like, "Okay, well what's mine is mine." And of course I, you know, of course it's not like a healthy way to view a partner. Like you can, whatever, but- Kenrya: Whatever, I'm an Aries and I feel the same. Jodie Slaughter: What's mine is mine. Kenrya: And I'm always ready to fight. So what are we doing? Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. What? And I got plenty of Aries friends. My mother is an Aries, ready to fight for me. Kenrya: So you know we always ready to fight. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Constantly. Kenrya: On your behalf. Jodie Slaughter: Constantly. Kenrya: Who we fighting? Where we going? Jodie Slaughter: And you just be like, "Hey, calm down." We can't go to a bar. We can't go to nut without y'all being like, "Did she ... Y'all looking at somebody crazy." Erica: Did that bitch just disrespect you? Jodie Slaughter: "Did she cut her eyes at me?" And you're like, "She was probably looking for her friend across the room." okay. “Really? Bitches can't say excuse me?" Erica: There is a reason that we call Kenrya Killa Ken. We call her Killa Ken for a reason. Kenrya: Oh my God. Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God, that's my whole life. Erica: She get more mad, like I don't even have to get mad because this bitch [inaudible 01:05:29] Jodie Slaughter: I know, you won't. [inaudible 01:05:30] is like, "Let's just dance. Who cares?" Kenrya: I was in this text group with some of my friends and I sent a, ... I like posted a tweet that somebody posted about like meals, right? Like some shit that we was thinking about, like some different stuff to cook at home. And my homegirl was like, "That's my enemy. I'm not reading that." Jodie Slaughter: Oh God. Kenrya: And I was like, "All right, fuck her." Jodie Slaughter: Fuck that bitch. Kenrya: And she was like, "I love that you didn't ask why, you were just like, 'Fuck her.'" I was like- Jodie Slaughter: I mean, y'all are 10 toes down. Erica: 10 toes down. Jodie Slaughter: 10 toes down Erica: 20, including mine. Wait, I didn't know. Okay, all right. That's cool. Yeah. No, she- Kenrya: It's fine. Erica: I love it though. I mean, it's a perfect best friend, and probably mother to have, right? Like, yeah. Jodie Slaughter: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fully. Because most of my other friends and my sister are Leos. My other sister is also an Aries though. Kenrya: Oh, wow. Y'all just carry out this bitch. Jodie Slaughter: Anyway. Erica: Okay. So what's a, what is a sex best practice that you want to share? Jodie Slaughter: Ooh. Oh, communication. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like there's this, I don't know, this idea that we should all just like intrinsically, know what we want and what our partners want. And I think people find it sometimes like less sexy to just ... And not even through dirty talk, but to just sit down and be like, "Hey, so what are you into?" And I'm like, you can do that over drinks or a cup of coffee, or the phone, or whatever. And obviously, of course you can do it via dirty talk too, but I think it's a really ... like communicating what it is you want and need out of the experience and then learning what the person or people you're sleeping with also want and need out of the experience is like, to me, like sort of getting on the right side of it. Kenrya: Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Jodie Slaughter: Does that all answer the question? Kenrya: Yeah. Erica: Yeah, you did. That was great. Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God, okay. Kenrya: So our next question is, do you have any must use tools, but you just said you don't really do all that. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. So I have ... I'm trying to think. Yeah, no, to be honest. Erica: Okay. Jodie Slaughter: I got to keep my fingers nimble. Hopefully I don't break my hands. No, I have to ... now, actually that's not true. Get a butt plug. Erica: Yes. Kenrya: Oh yeah. Jodie Slaughter: That'll do it. Kenrya: Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: That'll do it. Kenrya: And they're good for self-pleasure. Jodie Slaughter: Very much. That'll do it. So yeah, that. Erica: So I think I know the answer to this, but would you rather give up partnered sex or masturbation? Jodie Slaughter: See, that's really hard because it's like, one, it's like nobody knows how to fuck me, like me. Nobody's been fucking me as long as I've been fucking me. Erica: That is a quote. Jodie Slaughter: But I don't know, there's something really special to like being with somebody else. Y'all, wait, this is the hardest question of a bunch. Erica: Like having to choose between the two children. Jodie Slaughter: I would say partner sex. Give up. I can't imagine a world in which like, because I've never been known for like making ... well, why are you being weird to me? I've never been known for like truly losing myself over sex. Like, you may send some angry texts and yelling into somebody's voicemail over a dick and shit like that, but I have never like blown my life or somebody else's life up over sex. I think because I've always been like ... it's always been, for me like, "Well, I can give myself orgasms and they're still really great." And I recognize that this isn't a thing I need to breathe. Kenrya: Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: Do you know what I mean? And so I'm like, "This is not ever going to be worth like blowing all my shit up. And so I guess, if it comes down to brass tacks, I'd give up having sex with other people, but just know that I would be crying all the time, and I would be very sad, but I guess that's the one I'd choose. Erica: Okay. Kenrya: We don't want you to be crying all the time. Jodie Slaughter: Exactly. Kenrya: That'd be sad. Erica: Don't make me give either up. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, please. Kenrya: What are you reading right now? Jodie Slaughter: Oh. Okay. Right now, I actually prepared two books. One of them is “A Taste of Her Own Medicine” by Tasha L Harrison. It is in ... I try really hard not to like spoil, but it's like an older woman, younger man, Black romance. And Tasha- Kenrya: Yeah, we did that one on the show. First season, second season? Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Oh yeah. I think you did. Yes. Anyway, so y'all know- Kenrya: She was the one who got divorced and she was going to the business development thing. Jodie Slaughter: They fucked in the car. Kenrya: Yes. Jodie Slaughter: Tasha writes fucking that is so delicious. If I could like eat it. Kenrya: Oh God, that scene. Erica: Yeah. No, I ... yeah, that was a great scene. That was a great scene. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. And the next book is one that I haven't started yet, but I'm still reccing it because I have all faith and it is “Shots Not Taken” by Nicole Falls, which is a- Erica: Oh, she's always great. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Yes. And that's why, right? I'm not a sports romance person, but I have to ... I'm constantly finding myself having to like bite my tongue when it comes to me being like, "Oh, in romance, in books, I'm not into this," because there's always one to 35 authors who will write something that's going to blow that shit completely away. And I think Tasha's going to do this. Jodie Slaughter: It's like a professional basketball player, and she has this entire series called Nymphs and Trojans, that are about like a NBA, and then WNBA type ... you know. And if you know, Tasha is very into women's basketball. Erica: Yeah. We read the one- Kenrya: “Fuck and Fall in Love.” Jodie Slaughter: Oh yes.” Fuck and Fall in Love.” Yeah, so those are the two that I am recommending, and reading. Yes. Kenrya: What do you hope that people will learn from this journey through your sex life? Jodie Slaughter: Oh God. I think people will learn that ... I think your journey with sex never ends. Like sort of the same way that like your mental health journey never ends. You're always, I think, learning new things about yourself. You're always having new experiences. You're ever changing and that's kind of always changing how you have and approach sex. And I think, I'm not sure that it was like totally apparent that the way I approached sex now is any different from how I did when I was 13. But I mean, it's certainly very informed by my past, but also, very much informed by what's happening now and what I want for the future. So I think just like don't let your ideas of what your sex life is or should be stagnate. Kenrya: What did you learn from going through your sex life through this process? Jodie Slaughter: God, I learned that, one, I need to think about my sexual history more. Like just in terms of like taking stock of it. When I was going through these questions, I realized there were a lot of things that I hadn't thought about in a long time. Like the phone sex thing was something that I hadn't repressed, but that I ... you kind of just like forget or, you know what I mean? Certain things, if you're not constantly thinking about them, and I'd never fully examined how big of an impact those sexual actions literally have on the things I'm interested in now. And I think that makes sense. I think so much of what we're interested in sexually harkens back to like what was happening when we were first discovering sex. Jodie Slaughter: So yeah, I think I ... also, I learned that I was a little precocious little freak, and that's funny to me. Yeah. That's hilarious. Kenrya: So what is turning you on today, Jodie? Jodie Slaughter: Oh God. What's turning me on? The thought of kissing someone. Also, I've been reading a lot of ... I also Tweeted about this, I'm not sure if you saw, but I've been reading a lot of like Killmonger smut on Tumblr. And that's really been turning me on. That's been like what I've been ... because that's what I tend to masturbate to, like smutty fan fiction, erotic novels, sex stories, stuff like that. Porn doesn't tend to do it for me. Kenrya: Yeah. It does it for me less than this, which is how we ended up with this show. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So yeah. Reading about Michael B Jordan, like, I mean sad, boo, hiss, and I know, as Eric Killmonger Stevens, fucking motherfuckers is turning me on today. Erica: I love it. I'm here for it. Jodie Slaughter: Because of course it's like the nerdiest shit ever. That's like- Kenrya: And what's wrong with that? Jodie Slaughter: I think nothing, but it's just like- Erica: I was about to say like, it might be, but it's still hot. Jodie Slaughter: I'm like, "Girl, you have haven't changed. You're still masturbating to fan fiction.” Like literal, like no change. Kenrya: So? Erica: You know what works. You know what works. Kenrya: Are you enjoying yourself? Jodie Slaughter: Very much so. Kenrya: Well then that's what fucking matters. Jodie Slaughter: That's true. Y'all are right. The older sisters, y'all are right. Kenrya: Hell, enjoy yourself. Jodie Slaughter: I was so open, y'all. Kenrya: You were. I'm really proud of you. This is not an easy thing to do. And I don't- Jodie Slaughter: No. Kenrya: I don't think I realized how hard it was until like when Erica and I did ours, we was like, "Oh." Erica: Oh, we really talking about this. Kenrya: Yeah. These sessions are hard. Jodie Slaughter: It was like when that first question was talking about like masturbating at like 11, I was like, "Oh wow, because you're immediately transported back to whatever head space, it was like this isn't about sex, but it's not, not about sex. Erica: It's about pleasure. It's just a little girl- Kenrya: You're discovering your body. Erica: That wants to feel good. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Kenrya: Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: And I also, ... you're confronted with like, because I didn't know the word “masturbate,” but I definitely like- Kenrya: This feels good. Jodie Slaughter: Felt shame. It felt good, but I definitely felt shame. And I was also like, I remember when I got my period and it was like, "You can get pregnant now." And I was like, "Can you get pregnant from masturbating?" But I kept doing it. Kenrya: That's the risk I'm willing to take. Jodie Slaughter: Literally. I was like, "Well, I guess we'll see." Erica: [inaudible 01:18:14]. Jodie Slaughter: No, truly. Truly. Erica: However, there would be a lot less children and people in the world, if you could only have babies when you had orgasms. Jodie Slaughter: There'd be like eight people in the world. Erica: Like damn. Jodie Slaughter: I don't even want to think ... anyway, my God. Our poor, poor mothers. No, honestly, they were fucking too. Kenrya: Yes. Are you kidding me? Erica: My mama was, definitely. Jodie Slaughter: Oh absolutely. Oh, my mom ... anyway. Kenrya: My dad is the youngest of 15 children. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. My granny was one of 10. Yeah. Kenrya: There was lots of fucking. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Kenrya: And that's lovely. Jodie Slaughter: Absolutely. Kenrya: It don't bother me none to think about. I'm just like, I mean, that's why we're here. That's how we got here. And hopefully, like of all the stuff that I know that they went through, that was shitty, my hope is that- Jodie Slaughter: That you got pleasure. Kenrya: Yes. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Kenrya: That it wasn't a like, “Mister died on top of me” situation. Jodie Slaughter: Oh my God. Kenrya: Just that they enjoy [inaudible 01:19:36] Jodie Slaughter: “How did he die?” Erica: “On top of me.” Jodie Slaughter: No, I'm sorry. That was the Blackest thing that's ever happened. Erica: Because we can all just pick it up. Kenrya: Wow. That's so funny. We were just talking about, I need to rewatch that, it's been so very long. Jodie Slaughter: You're going to have to prepare yourself emotionally for that. Kenrya: And I haven't watched it like as a grown-grown person. Erica: I watch it and read it every year. I don't even think- Jodie Slaughter: My mother does too. My mother does too. Kenrya: I've read it as a grown-grown person, but I don't think I've watched it as a grown-grown person. Yeah, I think I'm going to do that this weekend. Jodie Slaughter: I've never read it, which is like biggest secret shame. But I'm also like ... well, because I ... well, I feel ashamed. I'm like, "I should have read ‘The Color Purple.’" But also I need to ... I have these interesting thoughts about the movie and about Celie and Shug, and ... Kenrya: Oh, you should really read it. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. And I know that, in the book, I mean, because I know that Alice Walker is queer, and I know that in the book, obviously there are so many more nuances that exist in a movie. Erica: I read the book annually because of that. I feel like it shows- Kenrya: The relationship is just- Erica: Beauty of Black ... of relationships between Black women. How it can not only be sexual, but platonic. Jodie Slaughter: But like that of a mother or a sister. Yes. Erica: It shows the richness of our relationships and I that's why I love it. Kenrya: [inaudible 01:21:22]. Erica: And it's on audio books, so if you ... it was one of those like just, I think it might even be free, to be quite honest. I don't think it's free, but yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. I mean it probably is in the Libby app or, I mean- Jodie Slaughter: Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kenrya: That's where I check out all my books. Erica: Yeah. It's an audio book, listen to it. You'll ... yeah. Kenrya: Yeah. Don't be ashamed, just enjoy it. And then tell us what you think. Jodie Slaughter: I will. I also have to tell you what I think about the suppositories. Because I'm going to try them. The suppositories. Kenrya: Oh yes. Okay. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. Kenrya: Excited for that, for you, because they're dope. Yeah. Jodie Slaughter: I'm so excited. Kenrya: And I think, more than that, I'm really proud of you for being vulnerable and talking to us about all of this stuff. I feel like I know I didn't get vulnerable enough to have this kind of a conversation until the last few years, and you in your twenties, girl, and you just did it. Jodie Slaughter: Thank you. Well, I mean, it's also like obviously you all created this space where that's possible for me to do so, and feel comfortable. Not even talking about ... I've been forced to be very vulnerable this past year, so I've gotten used to just like, "I'm raw, here, take everything that's inside." But y'all have created a ... I've never, I don't think, had a discussion this frank on a podcast before. This is like the type of discussion that ... and that if I was like recording with someone, we'd end, and then if I was close to them or we were having a conversation, then ... Kenrya: You would talk about that stuff. Jodie Slaughter: We'd talk about that stuff. Yeah. But yeah, I think it was like a really great exercise in being vulnerable. So thank you for giving me the space to do that. Kenrya: Oh, yay. I'm so glad that we've been able to make that happen. And thank you for saying yes. Jodie Slaughter: Always. Literally, always. Any fucking time. Kenrya: And you going to regret that you said that. Jodie Slaughter: No, I won't. I won't. No, this is literally like chatting with the gals. Like I won't. Erica: No, I totally feel like we just kind of ... we all [inaudible 01:23:38] Kenrya: Take right back up. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Literally. We literally smoked before. Erica: Right. Jodie Slaughter: Yeah. Kenrya: Those are the secrets. Well, thank you for joining us. Jodie Slaughter: Yes. Thank you for having me. Kenrya: Thank you. Yes. And thank you to all of y'all for listening. I'm not even going to say that I hope you enjoyed it because I know that you did. Jodie Slaughter: You better have. Kenrya: Exactly. We'll be back next week. Y'all take care. [theme music] Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode. Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions. Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen. Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla. LISTEN TO THE TURN ON Amazon Music | Apple Podcasts | Google Play | iHeart Radio | Pandora | Radio Public | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | YouTube CONNECT WITH THE TURN ON Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Goodreads | Patreon SHOW NOTES This week, Erica and Kenrya talk to author and cousin of the show Sheree L. Greer about the terrors of patriarchy, the importance of processing trauma, the intricacies of low-stakes hook ups, the importance of reciprocity, hating-ass pets and communication as aphrodisiac. Content warning: sexual abuse RESOURCES Guest, Sheree L. Greer | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook Free Short Story | "Christmas Is Sacred" from "Once and Future Lovers" by Sheree L. Greer TRANSCRIPT Kenrya: Come here. Get off. [theme music] Kenrya: Hey y’all. So, it gives me all of the pleasure to not only welcome y'all to this week's show, but to tell you that cousin of the show, Sheree L. Greer, is back in the house. Erica: Cousin, cousin. Kenrya: Hey girl. So Sheree's pronouns are she and her. And she is a text-based artist living in Tampa, Florida. In 2014, she founded Kitchen Table Literary Arts to showcase and support the work of Black women writers, and she's also the author of two novels, "Let the Lover Be" and "A Return to Arms," as well as the short story collection, "Once and Future Lovers." Sheree is a VONA Voices alum, Astraea Lesbian Foundation grantee, Yaddo fellow, and Ragdale fellow. Her essay "Bars," published in Fourth Genre Magazine, was nominated for PushCart prize, and was notably named in best American essays, 2019. That's a big fucking deal. Sheree L. Greer: Thank you. Kenrya: I have those... I buy those collections in paperback and I have them in my house. Sheree L. Greer: All right. It's noted in there. My next goal is to have it in there-in there, like featured-featured. Kenrya: In there. You fucking fancy. Sheree L. Greer: And it will happen. Kenrya: Progress. Exactly. That's what's up. Thank you for coming. Sheree L. Greer: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. Thank you. Erica: So listeners, just know ahead of time this going to be this going to be an episode, because- Sheree L. Greer: No pressure. Erica: I mean, no, because- Kenrya: It's always fun times. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah it is. It's always fun times. I Love y’all so much. I'm so glad- Erica: So- Kenrya: Same. Erica: With that, we just going to jump all in your cooch, from the beginning. Sheree L. Greer: Let's go. I showered and everything. Erica: Thank you. Appreciate you. Erica: So when do you remember first masturbating and what was the technique? Sheree L. Greer: I want to say I was like five or six, maybe five. I had this doll, it was called Walking Wanda. Okay? And I feel like it was the off-brand of whatever popular walking doll was at the time, because my mom was good for some off-brand shit. And so, but I had it. So the doll was like, I feel like I was just a little taller than the doll, and like you hold her hand and she's supposed to walk with you. It doesn't work that well. But I remember her outfit, she was Black. My mom was all about Black dolls. She had these like really fun stretchy pants on and this, I feel like it was neon green or neon pink shirt or something. But that was my girlfriend. I didn't know, probably relationship wise, girlfriend, boyfriend, stuff like that, but I knew that me and her was making out and humping at night and it was on. So I feel like- Erica: Then you take, take her to church in the morning. Sheree L. Greer: I feel like that was the beginning. I do. I remember her very vividly Kenrya: I feel like we need to like catalog this. I want to say, I don't know, 80% of the people who we've asked this question it’s been toys. Erica: So far, we've only had one person that didn't say it was either a pillow or a toy. Sheree L. Greer: Okay. Erica: Yeah. Everyone has been, which is why- Kenrya: Mine was a pillow- Erica: Yes. Kenrya: Yours was a stuffed animal, right? Erica: It was a Minnie Mouse that was life-size. It was huge. We had a friend that had Teddy Ruxpin and the nose was hard. Sheree L. Greer: Oh, wow. Erica: Just hard enough. Sheree L. Greer: That's true. Erica: Everyone had a variation of either a stuffed animal, a doll, or a pillow. Sheree L. Greer: So I feel like it's easy to just have it, and then... I don't know what makes... I wish I could go back and think through like what the thought process was, but you own it and then you figure out a little- Kenrya: This feels good. Whoa. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah, and then welcome to your body. Kenrya: Yeah, and it's easy. To this day, I still have trouble digitally. That's not really my jam. Sheree L. Greer: No, not me. Not me. Kenrya: I prefer the path of least resistance, which is to use some help. Sheree L. Greer: It's quicker that way. It is quicker, when you use some accoutrements. Erica: Accoutrements. Sheree L. Greer: It's easier and faster. That's true. Kenrya: Yeah, exactly. That is- Sheree L. Greer: Let's get to it. I'm just trying to get to sleep. Come on now. Kenrya: Exactly. Bang it out. So how old were you when you had your first kiss? Sheree L. Greer: I think I was in fourth grade and it was so tricky. It was this dude Tremaine who, he liked me so much. He stole one of his mama's rings and brought it to school and gave it to me. Kenrya: Wow. Sheree L. Greer: And I remember we had a conference about it and then after the conference, because of course, his mom came up to school. Apparently it was an expensive ring. It was red. Maybe it was a real ruby. I don't fucking know. I was in fourth grade. Yeah, so I remember kissing him before he gave me the ring, though. Because he rode the bus and I walked. So we had made a plan on how to kiss and then he had to leave or whatever. And so he brought me this ring and it was this big thing. My mom had to come up to school, because the principal at the time, Mrs. Wilkerson, wanted to have a talk with me about my worth and how... What did I do to get the ring and why? And this could set up expectation... It was like this whole thing, and I felt like it was way blown out of proportion for this little peck that we did. Kenrya: But why was it about your words? Sheree L. Greer: Exactly. It was me. Kenrya: That you accepted it, and not that this little nigga stole his mama's ring. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. No, it was. I remember that conversation about- Kenrya: Goddamn. Patriarchy always. Erica: If anything, good, I'm glad you're getting paid for them pecks. Pay up little nigga. Pay up. Sheree L. Greer: But yeah, it was a whole thing and I'd be thinking about like that and how those early things start framing your whole relationship to intimacy and attraction and all that stuff are early on. But I remember being in trouble because this dude, this boy, brought me a ring. Erica: Because someone did something to you. I remember when I was in school, I was in third grade, and this little boy touched my butt and I wrote it in my diary. And I was on like high alert for like weeks thinking someone would find it in my diary. Like something was wrong with me. First, I would touch my butt in third grade. So I mean, could you be mad at him? And second, it wasn't my fucking fault. Right? And so, we're putting on little girls, because someone does this to you, you did something wrong. No, fuck that. Fuck you, Ms. Jenkins. Was it Jenkins? Sheree L. Greer: Wilkerson. Kenrya: That's not what she said. Sheree L. Greer: It’s a Ms. Jenkins somewhere, that's shaming little girls, and fuck her, too. Kenrya: Fuck her, too. I'm certain. Erica: Okay. Too busy keking. Oh, how old were you when you had a sense of your gender identity? Sheree L. Greer: I feel like I knew fairly early that I was a girl and I wasn't... Because I have sisters and like the only man in the house was my dad. And so we knew kind of a right away, it's a house full of girls and this dude. And so I knew fairly early that I was a girl, and I felt like a girl, whatever that means, but I also felt like the wrong kind of girl. And so I don't know that they still gender the toy sections, but I remember the toy sections being this just highly gendered area. And I always wanted to go in the boys section and I felt, I don't know, I felt like that was wrong. And I felt like I was bucking against something and that the things that I liked, weren't the things I was supposed to like. Sheree L. Greer: And I remember I got this baby carriage, it must have been for Christmas one year. And I had this panda and a Cabbage Patch Doll named Nicholas. And I used to make them be cops. And I used to put them in the carriage, like that was their car. And so I'd be zipping through the house with the carriage and they'd get in crashes and all this stuff and I was having fun, but also you're doing it wrong. That's not what you're supposed to be doing. I felt that very early. And then the great disappointment of having to put on a shirt. When you leave that time of, that freedom of girlhood and then it's like, go put a shirt on. And you're like, "huh?" So I felt that. Kenrya: I remember kind of dreading getting to that point with my kid, and not wanting to put that on her. But also... It's a hard norm to buck if you have your kids around people who are not your immediate family, right? Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: Yeah. I very much actually remember like when we got to that point, but it wasn't actually ultimately me that told her to put a shirt on. She just decided that it was time to wear a shirt. So I ended up not having to tell her, but where did she get that from? Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. Erica: You did have to tell her to start wearing pants. She was a pants-less child. It was like- Sheree L. Greer: [crosstalk 00:11:41] freedom. Erica: Let me put on a shirt, but I'm going to run out with my booty out. Kenrya: But then conversely, I had to coax her into sleeping free, like we do. So she could... When we start having conversations about like health, about reproductive health, and that was a whole thing then, trying to get her to then take them off. It's the things that you don't think you ever have to have, the conversations you never think you have to have until you have a kid and you are like, "Oh, they don't know shit. You got to teach them everything." And try not to teach them the terrible things. Sheree L. Greer: Right. That's the hard part. Kenrya: Lord. Erica: My son dresses like a Mormon. He would like wear under shirts nonstop. I'm like, "Dude, are you wearing like your God garment or whatever?" It'll be hot out, we going to the pool and he'll have an undershirt on under his swim shirt and I'm like, "Bro." Kenrya: He doesn't do it anymore. Erica: He does not. He does not. Sheree L. Greer: Some of this shit just works itself out. You know what I'm saying? I never liked sleeping in bed clothes. They were like the worst. Your gown would get all twisted around your waist and shit. Take that shit off. And so, yeah I didn't have no problems with that. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think the only thing I really liked sleeping in and felt... it was so weird how on the one hand, I was getting these messages about what it means to be a little girl, how you supposed to act, what's acceptable and not acceptable, what's strange or different or weird. Therapy helped, but I have so much more compassion for my mom because I feel like I was a weird little kid and I think she was just trying to figure it out. Sheree L. Greer: Because like she got me like R2D2 underoos and shit. And she bought me the stuff that I wanted. So I wanted a wrestling ring and the WWF action figures, and so she got that stuff with me without no sense of shame and things. But then also that was at home. So out in the world it was a different kind of message. So it was you going to wear this skirt, it's time to start being a girl in these kind of traditional ways. And I was like, "Oh, that's confusing" For sure. And that confusion followed me for decades, sadly. Kenrya: Yeah. Well we know that you first started experimenting with Wanda. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. Kenrya: How old were you when you started experimenting with other people? Sheree L. Greer: Seven or eight, but not... I mean, we talked about this a little bit. I was sexually abused by my uncle. So, that was the first time that another person was involved. And when I think about that, and I just finished trauma therapy about it earlier this year. That was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done and realizing that I carried so much shame and guilt around it. And again, Erica, like you were saying, these things happen to us and girls are basically reared to carry that shit, like we did something wrong and I carried that. And that's not what it is. So when I think about reasons why I kind of buried all of that so deeply, is I was afraid of some of the judgment and some of the false equivalencies that come out of talking about childhood sexual abuse. Sheree L. Greer: So being queer, I had a very strong awareness later on, like I can't talk about this because people are going to be like, "Well, that's why your ass is gay." I was afraid of folks thinking that. And Wanda came before that. Erica: He was like, "This is what's going to happen." Point blank. Sheree L. Greer: But what I think though, especially after coming out of the therapy about it is I already felt wrong. I already felt like I had to hide something. I already felt like I had this shameful secret. So when that happened, it was almost like, well, this just goes in the same place where that was. So all of this shame, all of this wrongness, all of this, you're not the right kind of girl, your feelings are strange and wrong. All of that just got kind of bottled and hidden. Sheree L. Greer: And what happened after is just immense, just lots of confusion and blame. And then also though, wanting to prove that I could be normal or I could be good or right. And all of that came out of that abuse. I wish that we talked more about asking your children, what are you afraid of? What do you think about this? I was just talking about this with my wife. People are so concerned with like what celebrities are doing and what all these... The way it affects our kids. And it's like, you worried about a Lil' Nas X video and it's just motherfucking brother that's fucking with your daughter. You know what I'm saying? Kenrya: Worry about the wrong thing. Sheree L. Greer: The threat, the call is coming from inside the house. Erica: From inside the house. Right. Sheree L. Greer: So I just think that, or I wish that, I was in a space then to feel like I wasn't doing something wrong. And I think about how much that could have helped with my partner, like developing my own sexual identity and my sexual self in just a healthier way, particularly when it came to partners and navigating that. Kenrya: And separate from something that happened to you. Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kenrya: That goes back to what we were talking about with fucking Ms. Wilkerson. We teach our kids, our girls especially, that they have no real autonomy that we are supposed to take on the shame and the responsibility of the things that other people do to us. And so it only would fucking make sense to not be able to separate those things. Nothing happens in the back end. Erica: Yeah. No autonomy and all the responsibilities. Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Erica: That shit. Sheree L. Greer: What the fuck is that? Erica: Breeding ground for lots of co-dependence. Thank you, society. Kenrya: And violence. I was raped in college and went through that same cycle as someone who, perhaps you would think, but fucking a 20-year-old is still a kid. Sheree L. Greer: For sure. Erica: Yep. So first, thank you for sharing that. Sheree L. Greer: Thank y'all for the safety. I feel safe with y’all. So thank you. Erica: You're welcome. Always, one of the most difficult things going through therapy was talking to little Erica and letting her know- Sheree L. Greer: Girl- Erica: The what day we did that exercise, I literally like cracked in half, because it's like, "Tell Erica it's not her fault. You were going to take care of her." Sheree L. Greer: Girl. Erica: How little Erica going to trust this blubbering idiot? Sheree L. Greer: I did not know a person could cry and snot that much. When we got to that day, man. Erica: Yeah. My therapist used to be in a spot with like a bunch of those little like rental offices or whatever. I remember that session. I was crying so loud. I remember at one point thinking they probably think she beating my ass in here. Sheree L. Greer: My therapist had a little sound machine thing outside her door. A sound machine. So like I started because I'm getting even more and more are sentimental and just in touch with my feelings these days. So I started and I was trying to be hard about it. So I was trying, and then once it started hitting, she was like, "I'm just... Hold on real quick." And she turned that thing on. And then, man. Whoa, lord. Kenrya: We talk about therapy on every episode and- Sheree L. Greer: I'm here for it. Kenrya: Going through that trauma, that portion, because I, too, had to work through all of that. And I remember being kind of continually surprised, and I still am, at how much trauma I experienced as a young person and how much I dissociated and didn't really recognize it for what it was until I would be in sessions and be describing stuff, and the therapist would be like, "Oh wait. You just looked me dead in my face and said that with a straight face. Do you hear what the fuck you just said?” Sheree L. Greer: Yep. Yeah. Recording: And I would be like, "What?" And she be like, "Say it again out loud. Slowly." Sheree L. Greer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Whew. That shit's wild. But that's also part of what we are encouraged to do, right? Is you deal with it. You got shit to do. People are counting on you, so on and so forth. Kenrya: Suck that shit up and roll. You supposed to be strong. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. And then with stuff that happened when you were a kid, it's almost like, man that's so that's so far long ago. It's like, "huh?" Kenrya: Right. Erica: Yeah. So now that we've opened our guts about- Sheree L. Greer: Now we can talk about all the shit now. Erica: Yeah. Now let's get even more in your cooch. Tell us about your first time having partnered sex. Consensual partner sex. Sheree L. Greer: So, mine is so weird. So my high school boyfriend, and it's funny, because I ran into him a couple years ago. He's a bus driver in Milwaukee and I was in Milwaukee doing this workshop and I got on a bus, and he was like, "Sheree?" And I was like, "Oh." Erica: That's wack. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. It was weird because... I had such a wave of emotions because I broke up with him on just some wack ass... Oh gosh, it was so bad. Well, no it wasn't bad. I broke up with him because I was about to start college. He was a year below me. My hot ass went to two college parties and I came home like, "Mm-mm (negative) I can't go into college with no boyfriend. I can't do it." Erica: That was me. Who brings sand to the beach? Sheree L. Greer: Oh no. Kenrya: My dumb ass brought sand to the beach. It was all bad. Sheree L. Greer: I was like uh-uh (negative). But all that to say, I met him my sophomore year and I had a strict don't-date-people-I-go-to-school-with rule in high school because I just didn't need you around all day like that. So I met him my sophomore year and he was like my best friend. Like we had much fun together. And mostly because he just let me do the non-girly that I like to do. So we played video games, we played basketball together. He was just so much fun and I loved kissing, and so we kissed like all the time. Erica, don't make that face. You're in the minority here, so. Okay. Kenrya: Exactly. Sheree L. Greer: We would kiss till we were like fucking dizzy and it was so great and I would just relax and all this stuff. So, but I was never ready to have sex. So he wasn't a virgin and I was. And so we would make out then the hands came and then what do they call it? The grinding. We got real close for like a year and a half and one of my best friends at the time... Because I feel like everybody in my friend group had had sex already except for me. And so that it was kind of like "Girl, what you waiting on? It's not a big deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And like I knew I wasn't waiting for marriage because I didn't even think I would ever get married anyway. Sheree L. Greer: And so I knew I wasn't waiting for that. I was afraid of getting pregnant. That was foremost in my mind, especially because my older sister got pregnant at 17 and it like did all this weird shit to our family. And I was like, I definitely don't want to do that. So that's what I was afraid of. And he was just so sweet and nice and never pressured me or anything. And so his mom worked second shift and so we'd be at his house, unsupervised and one day I was just like, "Fuck it. I'm going to do it." And so we tried it was too painful. I was like, "Nope. Time out. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope." And he was just so gracious and sweet. I remember him being so sweet and then we tried again, a month or so later and it was fine. Erica: That's beautiful. Sheree L. Greer: I'm happy that was my experience. Kenrya: Yeah. There's consent. There's listening. There's communicating needs and then ultimately fucking. Erica: I'm going to take your story and tell my son that. So much better than fucking on a waterbed. Sheree L. Greer: Well, I heard y'all episodes. It's just a different experience up around here. I was thinking about what Kenrya was saying, this buildup in your mind about what it's supposed to be and how it's supposed to be. And I don't think I ever really had that. It just felt like something, again, that I was like supposed to do. And that is how, in retrospect, I approached most of my sexual dealings with men. Was this is something that's expected. I'm supposed to do this. So let's just get it over with, let's just do it. Kenrya: Yeah. How did you get to the point where you stopped feeling like that was what you had to do? Sheree L. Greer: It took a long, long time. I actually remember the first guy that I did not have sex with because I didn't want to. And it was so awkward because he had invited me out to Cleveland, which is where he lived. And so he had sent me these... Even though he said... We were just friends and I was telling him, I'm not trying to be romantic or nothing. I'll come out and we'll hang out. It'll be fine. Just trying to make sure I'm being honest and he knows. He's like, "Oh no, it's not like that. It's not like that." He said he had a spare room, but when I got there, the spare room was like full of junk. It wasn't even no bed in there. So I was very upset by that. Sheree L. Greer: But I was like, okay, I still try to have a good time. And so we had a good time until that night. So we slept in the same bed, but hella separated. And then he tried- Erica: Started doing that scooch. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. And I had in my mind, I remember thinking I don't want to do this. I don't have to do this. And so I was like, "Mm-mm. No." And it was awkward because he turned back around and scooted over and then I think he masturbated. I'm pretty sure he was masturbating and it was freaking me out. But I didn't know anybody in Cleveland. I didn't. So I cut my trip very short and came back home. But even as gross and weird as that was, I felt like powerful in a way that I hadn't before. Sheree L. Greer: And then that was the beginning of me thinking I don't ever have to fuck anybody I don't want to. So I remember that. But the journey was about... It was all tied in. So many things were happening in my life around that time. I was working a job. It's funny, working a job that I didn't want, really. I had taken my first creative writing class before I graduated. I was like, "Oh shit, I want to be a writer, but got this business degree." So I was working this job and feeling stuck. I had started dating women and kind of just exploring that a little bit. And I just started, I don't know... I just had this feeling. I was 25 and I was like, "this can't be life." There has to be more than this. And it just kind of gave way to little small moments of decisions that, and when you look at them in the whole, it's like, "Oh, you've grown up. You are becoming yourself." And then even that took some more decades. Kenrya: Yeah. That's shit's real. I'm 40 and I feel like I'm still young. So when did you first have an orgasm with a partner that wasn't Wanda, what's her name? Sheree L. Greer: It was with my high school boyfriend. We were going to break up eventually anyway, because he had feelings about going down on me that just wasn't going to fly. And I knew- Erica: Yeah, that's a hard no- Sheree L. Greer: I'm like, "This is not going to work." And so we had talked about it a couple times and I was just, I don't know. So I had in my mind that it wasn't. So then, there was this time we were doing it and he was always really good with his hands. And so that was a good night, but I feel like he was trying to prove to me that he didn't have to put his mouth on me or something. And I was like, "Man, that was really great. However..." It could have been greater. Yeah. Erica: Okay. So what three words would you use to describe your sex in your teens? Sheree L. Greer: I would say uncertain, perfunctory, and stressful. Erica: Said like a writer. I would've used 10 words to come up with perfunctory. Yeah. Well you got to do it, but you don't, but you're doing it? Yeah. Sheree L. Greer: Just going through the motions. Erica: I love you writers. Y'all are the best. You want to tell us anymore about the three words? Sheree L. Greer: I mean, in my teens, because it was such a... If I'm thinking teens, I didn't have sex till I was 17 going on 18. And that was with the one guy. And then I broke up with him pretty shortly after, and then my next partner was not my boyfriend. I didn't have another monogamous relationship until my twenties after that boy, after him. So my next partner was someone who was very enthusiastic about oral sex, which made me very happy. But, at the same time there was so many other messages about what you supposed to be doing when you're 19-20? What does it mean to be in college and what relationships should be like. And I was going on dates, and going on dates that weren't that enjoyable, but it's the end of the night. So what you supposed to do? Oh, well he invited me over or he's coming over. And so it just felt a lot like checking boxes off or something. This is how you are a free college girl. So that's where most of that comes from. Kenrya: Okay. Right. So now, and I think we just kind of bled teens into twenties, but there's a bunch of years there. So what three words would you use for your twenties? Sheree L. Greer: Exploratory, low-stakes, I guess. I guess that's one word. Kenrya: We can put a hyphen. Sheree L. Greer: So exploratory, low-stakes. And what would be a third word? Fun. Yeah. Fun. I had some fun. Kenrya: That's what I hoping you were going to say. Sheree L. Greer: I was like running through, because like I mentioned, I wasn't in any monogamous relationships for a long while. And so I'm just running through my sexual history and I'm like, "That was a lot of fucking going on." And a lot of it was fun because I was exploring and I was trying to figure things out. So definitely from 24 on, I was trying to find my groove, but yeah. Kenrya: Tell us more about low-stakes. Sheree L. Greer: Mostly because I really... So for the beginning part of my twenties, I was sleeping primarily with these two dudes. One was in town, one was out of town and it was really no expectations about things. And so in between that, knowing that this wasn't about a relationship, we weren't talking about where this is going and then I was also dating within that. It didn't feel like anything was really hanging in the balance. And again, I have to say that's from my perspective, because I do also acknowledge that my behavior at the time, like low-stakes, not giving a fuck, just doing me, not all of my sexual partners shared that perspective. And so that would cause some friction, but I would be like, "Oh, this isn't fun anymore. So I'm done." I didn't really have no qualms about just being like, "Oh, this isn't fun. I'm just not going to call you anymore." Or whatever. Sheree L. Greer: Not really thinking about how that cut-off of communication or... I'd never told anybody like, "I love you" or "this is what I see for us." And things like that. I was careful not to kind of build up expectations for others, but at the same time, you never know what other people are thinking or hoping for in these instances. So I also know that during that time it was low-stakes for me, very selfishly. And I know for a fact that I hurt some people and I'm sorry for that. Erica: I think it's dope that you were able to recognize that because in my twenties I did no wrong. Kenrya: None. Erica: That was, so what about your thirties? Give us three words. Sheree L. Greer: So I started dating my now-wife around the time that I was turning 30. So I was thinking deeply about this decade with her and I have probably never felt so cared for. So three words. Free, safe, and I'm going to say fun again. Because we have a lot of fun and I know that some of that comes out of the freedom and the safety, the security. We try stuff, we laugh a lot, we communicate about everything. There's no embarrassment around anything. There's no judgment around anything. And that's... I don't know. It's just really, really wonderful. It's really wonderful. Erica: I'm happy for you. Sheree L. Greer: Thank you. Thank you. We were listening to the episode, I think, when you did these questions Kenrya, and it was talking about feeling like those love songs and feeling like people talk about like a really great relationship and being like, "Man, that old corny ass shit," but then feeling that shit and being like, "Oh my God, like this- Kenrya: It's unreal. Sheree L. Greer: This don't feel... Yeah- Kenrya: It's just unreal. And you just feel so, I don't know... I wake up every day, all this other shit is happening, but I just feel so blessed to be so loved. That's just wild. Good sex is good, but that shit hit different. It's just- Erica: Well God, ya in the blessing business. I see it on my block. Sheree L. Greer: It's coming. It's coming. Erica: It's coming to this house. Knock, knock, knock. Sheree L. Greer: It's coming. It's coming. Kenrya: It's true, it's true. Sheree L. Greer: It's coming. Kenrya: It's true. Sheree L. Greer: It's coming. Kenrya: Yeah. It's just wild. Erica: Okay. Sorry. Kenrya: So tell us about a sexual experience that you remember fondly. Sheree L. Greer: Remember fondly? So I was telling my wife about this episode and some of these questions. And so we were having a little debate about the definition of fondly and if it was like... We were both saying we don't want to be sitting here, like being all wistful and like talking about somebody else, you know what I'm saying? But also not being compelled to it just because I'm with you, and I'm in love with you that you are not my only positive sexual memory. So we were talking about fondly and how emotional fondly is. What do you mean when you say fondly? So I was thinking about two things. The first was the first time somebody went down on me. This dude, it just really made my whole entire life. I was so excited that somebody was... That it was happening and- Erica: Code red, code red, it's happening, it's happening. Sheree L. Greer: Because it was something that I wanted and my boyfriend at the time wouldn't do it. And I was like, "This is bullshit." I know that now. I'm 17 and I know that this is bullshit. And so it was just really great. It was just really, really great. Partly, or probably mostly, because I wanted it and I got it. You know what I mean? Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative) yes. He was meeting a need. He actually heard you and did what you asked and gave a fuck about whether or not you got it. Sheree L. Greer: Right. And so that is a fond memory, is that the first time. Then the other one that came to me, and I know... Jasmine might feel a way because we about to put it, it is about to be immortalized on the internet. We were just early dating and we used to frequent this club here in Tampa. And so one day, we were there hanging out. I love dancing. I'm not that great a dancer but I love dancing. And so I was dancing and then she was dancing. We were dancing together, was dancing with other people, all this stuff. And then at one point we were kind of separated and I remember we kind of locked eyes and then she came up to me. She's going to be like, "I can't believe you telling people this." But she came up to me and she whispered that she wanted... She was like, "I want to fuck you now." And we went out to her car. Erica: Yes, cousin in law. Sheree L. Greer: In the parking lot at this crowded ass club, we went back to her car and got it in. It wasn't in that moment that I knew I wanted to marry her. But, Yeah. That's one of my favorite, fond memories of her and our sex life. Erica: That's dope. Kenrya: So I, and I've talked about this on the show. I've never been able to come from head and it is... I would love to, I'm hoping one day it do happen, and I don't blame anybody's technique. It's just me in my head. Erica: Yeah. Kenrya: But I do have a head requirement and it's because, really going back to how dude wouldn't do it, and you're like, "This is what I want." I suck dick. I'm good at it. I enjoy it. It is one of the tools I have in my arsenal. But guess what has to happen? We need some fucking reciprocity. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. Kenrya: Not gagging on nothing, if you ain't gagging on nothing. Sheree L. Greer: Right? Kenrya: And I was with someone who, once upon a time, who would do it, but he was just real lackluster. He ain't want to do it. And he would complain about me being wet. And I'm like, the fuck? Erica: That's the best part. Sheree L. Greer: I know. Kenrya: It was always something. And I was like, “The fuck? How are you complaining?" And ultimately that's what ended up breaking us up because it was one of a... It just showed me what his mentality was and what he was willing to put in. And if you're going to fucking complain about this, but you don't have no problem with me sucking your dick, then... And so I remember the last time he complained, I was like, "Bet, I'm not sucking your dick no more." We were done within a few weeks after that. Sheree L. Greer: Because it's ridiculous. Kenrya: It was what it symbolized. Sheree L. Greer: It's like when people be like, "Look for the red flags," that's a red flag to me. Kenrya: That's a red flag. Sheree L. Greer: That's a red flag. And I- Erica: Not sharing your food is a red flag to me. If you don't share your food, you don't eat ass. And I remember I went out to dinner with this guy and this is was first date. We went out to dinner. And we were eating off each other's plate. And I was like, "Can you believe I went out with this guy and he wouldn't share his food." And he looked me dead and was like, "He don't eat ass," and I was like, "You right." Sheree L. Greer: See, see, things like that that tell you what's what. Erica: What you're getting into- Sheree L. Greer: Because I've never been shy about trying anything sexually, especially. Let's give it a go. And so back when I was dating men, I suck dick, no problem. Let's go. But then I kept, like you said, [crosstalk 00:49:02] Exactly. Erica: I ain't complaining. Sheree L. Greer: That's a flag. And then something interesting happened, too. When I started dating women exclusively, because I am probably a, what do they call it? Masculine of center or whatever shit is, because I don't wear dresses and don't carry a purse. But this idea that I don't... That I'm supposed to always be like the aggressor or I'm supposed to do you, I'm supposed to fuck you. It's like- yeah. Mm-mm (negative) No. I've dated a couple women who were like that. And I roll on my back. It's my turn. Like what's- Erica: Your knee be up. What you want? Sheree L. Greer: Want me to get on my knees, turn over, what? What we about to do? And really been like- Erica: Stingy motherfuckers. Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. I can't take no stingy lover. I can't do it. I can't do it. Kenrya: I do want to like say, I always like to say this when I'm talking about what folks have to do. The reality is, right, different people have different boundaries and different things that they're comfortable with. And those can be informed by their trauma, by their past, by all of that. And that is fine. But that doesn't mean that we have to have sex with each other. Sheree L. Greer: That part, that part. Yep. You're a hundred percent free- Erica: As for me, and my house. Sheree L. Greer: Exactly. Erica: And this pussy. Sheree L. Greer: Yes. Erica: That's what's happening. Sheree L. Greer: Yes, exactly. Erica: Other than hot, what does your sex life look like now? Sheree L. Greer: I'm not going to lie. The working from home and all the pandemic bullshit has played a role in our sex life. We've both been feeling like really exhausted by just things and neither one of us... If I'm not in the mood, I'm not in the mood. And I've been finding that the things that can take me out of the mood are just more frequent and just... Everybody is trying to find their way through. This is going on two years, this is a fucked up time. And so work, stress, all this stuff. So it's been a lot of intimacy and a lot of talking and just trying to care for each other and be there for each other, which has been welcome. But then we've also been having conversations about like... Because we haven't taken any real trips, other than I took her, I took Jasmine for our birthday earlier this year out to Hollywood Beach. But we haven't been anywhere. We haven't done anything. Sheree L. Greer: So we've been trying. The other day... No, yeah this was the other day. We were talking about how our dog, Knight, kind of keeps us captive in terms of where we could fuck in our own house, like this dude pay bills. Because he'll come up... So we was shaking it up and we was like, "Let's fuck in the guest room." It's a different place, right? But the bed is lower in there. So we trying to get it on the dog will get up on the bed and start licking my foot or my ankle. And you got to decision to make because like you can keep going, but then it's like, are you having a threesome with the dog at this point? That's disgusting and gross. Or do you stop? And then now we got to try to put the dog out the room and close the door and then he's outside the door. Erica: Yeah. Sheree L. Greer: And nobody wants to fuck while that's going on. So we- Kenrya: What did y’all do? Sheree L. Greer: We did end up closing the door. We had to kick him out the room. We closed the door. And so that helps. But we just always be trying to keep it fresh and keep each other interested. But we have noticed that we have to work a little bit harder now that we're both working from home and everything's just kind of wearing on us. So sex life now is a bit more effort than it has been in the past in terms of getting in the mood, making the time, kicking the dog out, stuff like that. Kenrya: How often would you say on average, do you have some kind of sexual contact? Sheree L. Greer: Every day. So touch is my love language. It is number motherfucking one. Okay. And hers is not though. Her number one is quality time, which is my dead last one. See- Kenrya: That's my number one. Sheree L. Greer: That's my dead last one, which is interesting. But every day there's some kind of sexual touch going on. That goes, that can always be to jump off to something or just in passing. And we have this kind of running joke where it's like the day I'm not trying to grab your booty in the grocery store is the day you know something's up. You know what I mean? If you not in the kitchen putting up the dishes and I come up on you in body roll against you, something is up. Kenrya: Ask me some questions. Sheree L. Greer: “Sheree ain't tried to touch my titty in about a week. Something's going on, who you fucking?” So it's always something. It's always something. Erica: Are there certain times of the day that are better for you to have sex? Just because your brain's better, your mind's clearer, whatever? Sheree L. Greer: I am very easily aroused. It don't matter to me. Her on the other hand, is probably mornings, which, I like I anytime basically. But if so she wants mornings, it's mornings. She want afternoon, it's afternoon. Just say the word basically. I'm just at your service. Let's go. Erica: So where do you guys typically do it? And how long does the session usually last? Sheree L. Greer: In the bedroom and it depends. Because Jasmine's very like, "Let's get to it." Like that's she likes to get to it. Kenrya: She's such an Aries. Sheree L. Greer: I told you, I told you, I told you. I know that she enjoys kissing, but it's not a requirement for her. She can look at the time and be like, "Let's see it's 10:30. I'm going down. So if you want some, it needs to happen right now." Kenrya: Right now. Sheree L. Greer: And so in times like that, it's like, "Let's get to it." And it could be anywhere between, I don't know, shit, 10 minutes to 20 minutes to get to the business. And we've been together long enough if we want to come fast, we know what to do to get in there and make it happen. Now me, I like all the extras. And so I have, I guess... It's not a safe word, but it's... I don't know what you'll call it. I'll tell her if we been having too many just quick get to it sessions, I'll tell her I need some tenderness tonight or I need a little tenderness and she'll be like, okay. Erica: “Let me stretch.” Sheree L. Greer: All right. And that would be a longer session with all the touching and kissing and all that stuff. Kenrya: What's the best part of your sex life right now? Sheree L. Greer: I would say the freedom of it. Just feeling free to ask for what I want, feeling free to decline if it's something that I don't want to do, and knowing that nothing's attached to it, you know what I mean? The freedom to kind of be comfortable in my body and know that my body is appreciated and loved and wanted. Those feelings are so important for me. And all of that is part of feeling free to be yourself and not be judged in anything that you want or don't want. And that's been the best part. Kenrya: So what's the most frustrating part? Sheree L. Greer: Probably her wanting to just get to the business. That gets frustrating at times when I have to say like, "Okay, we've been getting to the business a while. Let's slow down." Exactly, or like, "let's slow down." Because I usually have to be vocal about that. And I have to say it, because if not, we'd always just be like bop bop bop bop. Erica: "I finished!" Sheree L. Greer: Yes, exactly. But I will say, it's interesting, and I feel like this is a very Aries thing to do, because it's not necessarily revenge, but it feels like, “Bitch I told you.” Right? So I'll be saying, "Man, I need a little tenderness, whatever, whatever," but then she'll just bring it real quick without no tenderness, and it'll be awesome. And I'll be about to pass out, go to sleep. And she'll be like, "Told you, you didn't need all that. You didn't need all that. I just needed to get her there. Get to it. So night, night talk to you in the morning.” Damn. She was right. Kenrya: How often do you masturbate? Sheree L. Greer: I would say multiple times a week. Kenrya: Okay. Sheree L. Greer: I get nice with myself regularly. Kenrya: What's your technique now? Sheree L. Greer: We have some toys, but when I don't feel like doing all that, I just rub one out real quick, in the bathtub or you know what, I need to relax. And then [inaudible 01:01:22] That's the sound. And then night, night. Kenrya: Night, night. Erica: So do you ever have trouble turning off the day and focusing on bodily pleasure? Sheree L. Greer: Yeah. As of late. As of late. And I know that's, like I said, this pandemic shit wearing on, being in Florida where it feels very hopeless when we have conversations about what next month is going to look like, what the next season's going to look like. Just the leadership is astounding in its idiocy. It's a lot of that. Sheree L. Greer: And then again, like just being in this space where I'm going through career transition and feeling fully supported and knowing that everything's going to be fine, but also anxiety and worry is something that I always have to work on. And so there are times when my brain just won't stop and I'll just be... The day is over and it's time to relax and I can't stop. The wheels just won't stop. And so I've been having to do more things intentionally to try to bring myself into the present moment, whether that be, I'm just going listen to some music for a while, or have an impromptu dance party, or let me watch something. Just to get out of that thinking space. Baths do it for me a lot. It's been a challenge. It's been a challenge. Erica: Okay. Sure, sure. If you could snap your fingers and change anything about your sex life, but would it be? Sheree L. Greer: Snap my fingers, change... I'm going to tell y'all. I love my dog to death. I do, but I would snap my fingers and make that little nigga disappear sometime just so I can, I don't know, spontaneously fuck in the kitchen. Erica: Yes. [crosstalk 01:04:11] Yeah. Sheree L. Greer: Without the dog sitting and staring or licking at my feet or something. Seriously. Seriously. Erica: My dog licks himself, and one time we was getting it in and all of a sudden we heard- Sheree L. Greer: Right, right. Exactly. Erica: I was like, "Dude we don't need a soundtrack." Sheree L. Greer: We don't need that. Erica: Yeah. Sheree L. Greer: I mean, there's been times and we are in the bedroom getting it in and then you kind stop and be like, "Wait, is that you? It's not you making that noise. It's a dog making that noise." That nigga's got to go. He got to go. Erica: Yeah. Sheree L. Greer: So I feel like- Kenrya: Y’all just adding to the reasons why my child is never going to have a pet in my house. Sheree L. Greer: I don't know that all dogs are like that, but I know that Knight, he is a very sensitive little dude. He loves cuddling- Kenrya: He like, "What we doing?" Erica: I'm single. So my dog be like, "What you doing to my mama? It was a different man last time." Sheree L. Greer: But he would, he would literally... Let's say we making out in the kitchen. He'll come and be like, "Is that love I hear?" And then come in and want to like jump up on my legs or her legs and like get in the mix. And it's like, "This ain't the kind of love that involves you, bro. This ain't for you." So I would like to be able to have a little bit more spontaneity in terms of location and shit. Which, we think we're going to be expanding our family soon. So we might just have to send Knight to stay with his grandma for a couple weeks or something. Yeah. Because after the kids come, it's over-ish. Kenrya: You just made me excited. Erica: What is a sex best practice that you want to share with our listeners? Sheree L. Greer: Sex best practice? I would say, it sounds trite, but communication above of all things. Communication, which I feel like encapsulates consent, which is sexy as hell, which encapsulates knowing what you want and what you don't want and communicating that to your partner. Yeah, communication. Just talking about it, asking about it, saying what's on your mind saying anything. If you can't be open and honest in your communications about sex with the person you're having sex with, that's probably the biggest red flag of all. Even in, in terms of whether you're satisfied or not, or what you could use more of, or less of. If you can't talk those things out freely and confidently, without fear of retribution or resentment or some kind of emotional abuse response, that's a problem. So being able to think through what you want, what you don't want, what you like, what you don't like, being able to ask for it, being able to say, "No, I don't want that," being able to speak your mind and to communicate is the number one ingredient to some top-notch sex, I think. Erica: So would you rather give up partnered sex or masturbation? Sheree L. Greer: Oh, masturbation, no question. I'd give it up. As much as I enjoy it, I would give it up. Erica: That's because y'all getting good sex over there. Give up sex with my partner? That's amazing. That's where I'm like, "Eh, ain't nothing changed. Ain't nothing different over here if I gave it up." Kenrya: What do you hope that people will learn from this walk through your sex life? Sheree L. Greer: I don't feel like I dropped no jewels, but I will say that I- Kenrya: You see how we looking at you. Sheree L. Greer: I mean, I was really nervous and I have been a ball of anxiety around talking about my sex life, my sexual past in particular. And I think I shared this in a comment of one of y’all shows. I forget who y'all were talking to, but I be all on the comments on the YouTube. It's one of my favorite things to do. Kenrya: You do. I feel like it feels like it's like another opportunity for me to talk to you cause I go through and moderate those. And I'm like, "Hey, Sheree!" Sheree L. Greer: Mostly, when I'm listening at, because like I put it on, because when I'm at the dumb ass day job, I got the two screens and so I'll have y'all up on this screen and then I'll be doing college bullshit on this screen. And so something will happen or somebody will say something and I'll be like, "ha!" And then I got to flip over there and say something. I think I put, I forget who y’all were talking to, but I commented that I used to feel like different kind of pressure in conversation about my sexual history, particularly in terms of the time I spent sleeping with men and how all of that is part of my story. And I am not one of those lesbians who are like, "Ugh, disgusting dicks." I never felt like that. I don't feel like that. Sheree L. Greer: And so if anybody takes anything away, I hope it's that conversations about your sexual history, if you are open to talk about it, don't be scared of that shit. It helps when you're able to talk to two people you love and respect. So, that makes it easier. But none of it defines you. Nothing you did defines you. You define you and you get to be the person who decides what matters and what doesn't, what you hold onto or what you let go. And always just stand in that. So, that's what I'm hoping. Erica: Well, you did drop lots of jewels. Yeah, and I think someone tweeted a while back and we got fake offended where she was like, "It was really nice listening to older Black women discuss their sex lives." I was like, "Who's old?" Kenrya: Somebody said that about us. Erica: Yeah. But I think that is great that we're- Sheree L. Greer: They said “old” or “older”? Erica: Older. Kenrya: It's all relative. Erica: But you know what- Kenrya: And I appreciate it- Sheree L. Greer: But I feel like this is exactly who should be talking about it. But also, I would hope that younger people, I was about to say younger mo-fos, motherfuckers, but I don't want to disrespect them like that, that are listening, or hopefully they will listen in, because none of this even makes sense till you get out of it. And so teens, fucking twenties, like none of this shit makes sense until you can stop for a minute- Erica: Step back- Sheree L. Greer: There ain't no stopping and stepping back in your teens and twenties, it is go, go, go, go, go. Kenrya: And nobody's talking to you like this, right? I always have... I've collected mentors because I didn't really have my mom around. And so, one of the ways that I've always moved through the world is that older Black women would see me and be like, "Oh, you mine now." And that is so much of how I have moved through the world. But none of them have ever talked to me about fucking. Sheree L. Greer: And they're not. They not. Kenrya: They never talked to me about bad relationships until we got older. And we started talking about their bad relationships and then we were counseling each other. But I really could have used these kind of conversations in my twenties to help me understand, to know that not wanting to give me head was a fucking red flag, right? To be able to recognize when the shame of something that some nigga did to me was being placed on me and keeping me silent and keeping me from seeking help. But I didn't know any of that stuff. Sheree L. Greer: That's why this show is so important. Erica: And that's why it's important to have... That's why I appreciate having you on, because you're sharing this. And I feel like this... I don't want to say they're mistakes, but we did this living to help impart this knowledge. At the very least, let me get something out of this- Kenrya: We go through that so you ain't got to go through that. Erica: And let me get something out of this motherfucking heart break and this bullshit. Sheree L. Greer: Even if, and not even if, they will. We going to make the same shit, but just think about how it feels to be like, "Oh, I was also fucking up. This person was, and they're okay." Every time y'all get on the screen, the mic, whatever, you are an example that, you are okay. You going to be all right. You going to make it through. So I feel like, even listening, not even as a way of like, "I did these things, so you don't have to." They going through them. They going to do it, but then it's something to say, "Oh, I don't have to be ashamed of this. Or there's people talking about this. I'm not alone in these preconceived notions or mistakes or whatever that is." And so then it's building a sense of community that's steeped in, not just survival from shit but thriving and being like, "This is okay. I'm okay. This is okay." Sheree L. Greer: So yeah, I told my niece, speaking of older, she just turned 21 and I was like, "What the hell is going on?" But I told her to check this show because I also don't want her coming up in the silo that is my family where we didn't talk about sex. Nothing. Nothing like my mama just now, she sent me a sex joke meme the other day. And I was like, "It's because I'm it's because I'm over 40." She can now make sex jokes with me. I looked at it and I was like, "Mama?" It's because I'm over 40. And to prove it, when I looked at the details, she sent it to me and my older sister, who's 47. Kenrya: Wow. Sheree L. Greer: But she ain't send it to my younger sister, who's 35. So I've crossed some threshold of being able to talk about sex with my mom. Now that I'm fucking 40. Erica: Five years till you get these memes! Sheree L. Greer: I'm like, "What is that?" Y'all, this show is, is necessary and takes the stigma and it just makes it fun and inclusive and inviting. So yeah. Erica: So, last question. Sheree L. Greer: Okay. Erica: What is turning you on today? Sheree L. Greer: Oh, this conversation. I feel like I'm looking at the time. Shit, my wife is off today, because she took off the whole weekend for my birthday. I'm looking at the time. I got a workshop later, but I might have to go get some tenderness right quick. Erica: Go get some tenderness. Sheree L. Greer: Go get some tenderness right quick. Yeah. That's what's turning me on. Having my birthday and feeling loved is turning me on right now. And this conversation is an extension of that. So, yeah. Kenrya: We love you. Sheree L. Greer: Aw. Kenrya: So you mentioned something earlier and it was, you're talking about times of transition and support in your work. And I want to make sure that we don't go without telling folks how they can support your work because I support your work. Sheree L. Greer: Yes we do. Erica: Yes I do, too. Sheree L. Greer: As do you. Kenrya: Exactly. And we think it is important to give money to people who we love, who are doing work. Doing great work. Sheree L. Greer: I appreciate that. Erica: Y’all gonna spend that $15 on some bullshit. Spend it on your cousin. Kenrya: So how can folks support your work? Sheree L. Greer: The easiest way to get to everything that I'm doing is to visit my website, ShereeLGreer.com. I have a- Kenrya: Can you spell that please? Sheree L. Greer: Oh, S-H-E-R-E-E-L-G-R-E-E-R.com. There's a link to my Patreon where I'm really trying to lean into my creative practice and how that speaks to my building community and helping get even more voices out in the world. I am an independent writing teacher and writing coach. All the ways that you can connect with me are on that website. But also I have... My short story collection, "Once and Future Lovers" turns 10 next year. And so I put this as a giveaway. I don't know how y'all going to run it, but I provided a copy of one of my most beloved, I guess people really like this one particular story, from the collection for a free download, wherever y'all want to post it, in celebration of leaning into this 10th anniversary. I'm going to reissue a book and we're doing a book tour, virtual book tour about the book, kind of a decade later. So I'd love to chat with y'all again about it. Yeah. So all of this lusciousness is going on. Sheree L. Greer is a place to find everything. So, very much appreciate it. Kenrya: Word. So y'all will be able to go to the show notes for this episode to get your download. Sheree L. Greer: Free short story. Kenrya: That's awesome. Yes. Thank you. And I don't want to let you go, but we got to, because we've been on for a long time. Sheree L. Greer: It's all good. Erica: Like as soon as we can, we got to visit you. Y'all got to visit us, something. Because- Sheree L. Greer: Please. Please. Erica: Seeing you and spending time with you makes me realize like, "Damn, I fucks with her hard. Sheree L. Greer: Same. Erica: I miss cousin. Kenrya: And I don't actually have a lot of people that I fuck with? Sheree L. Greer: Yo. So I'm trying to tell y'all the shit just clicked. I was thinking, when I took the survey... The survey's still going on or it's closed? Kenrya: It's closed. It's closed. Sheree L. Greer: When I took the survey was like, "How did you hear about us or whatever?" And I was thinking about that first email and I was like, "Oh, shit. How did I not know this was happening?" So I looked y'all up. And then I listened to all the back episodes and I was like, "Oh my God, I love them. Is that weird?” And so then when I was on the show, the first time I was like, "Okay, just be cool because they don't really know you-know you yet, but you feel like you know them because you listen to all them episodes. So just be cool, be yourself." I felt like we was on a friend date or something. Erica: Pass the test. Sheree L. Greer: Yes. Be cool. But I don't know, shit just clicked. And I don't know, I just love y'all so much, so yeah. Kenrya: Thank you for coming on. Sheree L. Greer: Thank you for having me again. Anytime, every time. Just shout me out. Kenrya: Again, I'm always going to say you might regret saying- Sheree L. Greer: I will not. I will not. I will not. I don't say that to everybody. So I will not. I'm very thoughtful in who I say anytime, every time to, so I will not regret it. Kenrya: That's what's up. Yay. That's what we love. And we are a hundred percent sure that y'all have not regretted listening to this episode at all. Thank y'all for spending this time with us. And we going to let y'all go. And we going to see y'all next week. Erica: Peace. [theme music] Kenrya: This episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme music is from Brazy. Hit subscribe right now in your favorite podcast app and at YouTube.com/TheTurnOnPodcast, so you'll never miss an episode. Erica: Then follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast. And you can find links to books, transcripts, guest info, what's turning us on, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Kenrya: And don't forget to email us at TheTurnOnPodcast@gmail.com with your book recommendations and your pressing sex-and related questions. Erica: And you can support the show by leaving us a five-star review, buying some merch or becoming a patron of the show. Just head to TheTurnOnPodcast.com to make that happen. Kenrya: Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Holla. |
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be. Archives
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