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On Episode 5 of The Turn On, we read two stories from Mistress Envy's "Erotic Confessions of the Mildly Perverse: A Collection of Short Stories" and discuss what happens when fantasy turns into reality.
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Kenrya: Come here. Get off.
Erica: (Singing). Welcome back. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On.
Kenrya: Just keep going.
Erica: Sorry, okay. Welcome to this week's episode of The Turn On. This week, we're reading from Erotic Confessions of the Mildly Perverse: A Collection of Short Stories by Mistress Envy. We are actually reading two stories from this collection. It was published in 2018, so sit back, relax, get your wine, your weed, and your accoutrements, and we'll see you on the other side.
Erica: (Singing). Welcome back. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
Kenrya: Erotic Confessions of the Mildly Perverse by Mistress Envy. The Tease.
"Sex is overrated." That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and when he said it, I should've walked away from him. How can anyone who thinks this way be given any of my damn time? But somehow, he has managed to consume all of my thoughts. Well, not really him. His penis. It's become my obsession. It's my own private hell. He makes me touch it every day, and he takes pleasure in my pain. The more that I beg for it, the harder it gets.
He only allows me to touch it through his pants. I don't even get to feel the warmth of it. He was kind enough to let me see it once, but only for a second. If he's feeling gracious, he might fondle me a little. You know, suck on my tits, rub my ass, and finger me. But those things seldom happen. The one constant is that I always have to touch his dick.
Thoughts of it swim around in my head all the time. I think of it so often that I've given it a name. Dominant. I try to resist him. I give myself a pep talk every day. "You can do this. You won't talk to him. Don't look directly at him." But my vagina's in control. Where he is, she has to be. I try to talk her out of it. "You could have someone else," I tell her. "You don't even know if he'll lick you the right way. Let's call somebody we've already had." Her answer is always the same. "No."
Why is she so damn crazy? Why am I letting her be in control? It's at the point where he isn't even a person. He's sex. He's desire. He's lust. His penis is the answer to everything. Hungry? Dominant can feed you. Sad? Dominant will brighten your day. Should I buy a house? Dominant is a real estate agent.
I know how ridiculous this all sounds. It's absolutely nuts, and I'm not bragging, but I'm very attractive. I have men trying to get in my panties all the time. These other men are funny, cute, and might be good in bed, but none of this matters to her. This is my fault. I let him know too much. I told that stingy bastard how crazy my vagina makes men. I told him how I've heard all vaginas are the same, but after sex with me, men do things they never thought they would.
For example, a very inexperienced young man told me that he didn't like to eat pussy, and he wasn't going to do it. I didn't argue with him. I didn't try to convince him otherwise. I didn't force him the first two times. However, on the third go round, he was begging me to eat it. I sat on his face and gave him a lesson. After that, he was calling me just to eat it.
I also shared the story of an older gentleman. The older man told me that he wasn't into anything remotely kinky. He said that he would not, under any circumstances, choke, spank, or do anything that resembled BDSM. A month later, I had his ass tied up, blindfolded, and taking hits on the stomach with my riding crop. I wasn't bragging. I was just giving him a disclaimer in case he wanted to take a trip to Crazy Town.
Unfortunately, he's using this information against me. I ask him how he can be so strong. How is it that I can awaken Dominant with just a smile, but he resists ripping my clothes off? He tells me that I'm used to getting my way, and he's going to fix it. He's right. I do need to be fixed. I need him to fix it by not teasing me. I need him to give it to me. I should be in the afterglow right now instead of wanting to rip someone's face off due to intense levels of sexual frustration.
He's got me all messed up in the head. I can't even masturbate. I pull out my toys, but none of them excite me. I want to watch porn, but I get jealous. Why is it that these bitches get to come, and I'm over here horny as hell? All of this is pure nonsense. I am literally choosing to be an abstinent psychopath because of one man. A man who tortures me daily.
Today is the day that I turn this around. I have to gain control of this situation no matter how hard it's going to be. I have to be strong. He should be over here any minute. I see him pulling up in the driveway. I open the front door. "Touch it," he commands. I don't even get a proper greeting? Dominant's only half awake, but I can see his head begin to poke through his pants. I'm not giving into this shit. I will not.
So I whisper, "No." He looks shocked and confused. "Excuse me?" He asks. I look him in the eyes and defiantly respond, "No, I don't want to." He tries to force my hand on Dominant. I ball my hand into a fist. He grabs me by my elbow and pulls me closer to him. I still don't give in. I ignore all the cuss words that my vagina is yelling at me. I am not going to let her or Dominant control me anymore.
"Would you like to come in? Maybe have something to eat?" I ask him. He passes me and sits on my couch. He looks so sexy when he's angry. He stares at me and says, "Take your panties off." I sit in the chair across from him and open my legs. "I would, but I'm not wearing any," I coolly respond. Even from this distance, I can see that Dominant is at full attention. I'm not playing this game. I am not going to touch Dominant. I am not going to plead for him to be inside me. I will not let this man keep having this hold over me.
"Come sit next to me." "No." He sees how serious I am, so now he starts pulling out all his tricks. He grabs and tugs Dominant I inhale deeply, but I don't move. He removes his jacket. He's wearing a V-neck T-shirt, and he slightly flexes his bicep. I want to run over and bite his arm, but I don't move. I adjust myself in the chair, and he laughs at me. He bites his bottom lip so slowly, but I am not moving.
"All this resistance is turning me on, but you not going to be able to keep this up." He's a cocky bastard. His confidence only fuels my determination to stay the course. Despite the growing anger between my legs and my erect nipples, I will not subject myself to another round of dry humping. Either this man is going to finally give me what I want, or we both going to have to be miserable.
We sit in silence for a few more minutes. He hasn't taken his eyes off me. I think of everything except his massive erection. I keep crossing my legs to stop the tears of anguish escaping my pussy and running down my thighs. I stand up and head toward the door.
"It was so nice of you to stop by. I really must let you go." He smiles, stands, and walks over to me. He tries to kiss me, but I turn my head. "You don't want to kiss him goodbye?" He says while glancing down at Dominic. "No, but thank you for the offer," I reply. He rubs Dominant against my ass, and I feel weak, but I am not going to do this. The only way I am giving in to any of his advances is if I'm guaranteed Dominant.
He leans into me and grazes my ear with his lips. I'm getting weaker now. He looks at me. He grabs my face and kisses me passionately. I'm no longer in control. He rips off my shirt, and my bare breasts are exposed. He raises my skirt above my waist. I want to run from him, but I can't. He pulls his pants down. He's not wearing any underwear. I can see all of Dominant. I feel like crying. Is this really going to happen?
He taps Dominant against my clit. Yes. This is about to happen. What is that damn ringing? Where is it coming from? I wake from my dream to answer the phone. "Hello?" I sleepily answer. It's him. "I'm on my way over. Get up." He hangs up. Here we go again.
"Good morning, Vernice." "Morning, Bob," I murmur. I hate mornings. I hate this job. I really hate Bob. I just want to get to my cubicle and start these eight mundane hours. I wish people would just leave me alone. All these fake people in here make my ass hurt. Well, almost everyone. There are two people in here that actually make another part of my anatomy throb. The Train.
Dominic and David, or "The Train," are the sexiest men I have ever laid eyes on. They dress well, smell delicious, and are beyond charming. The only problem is that neither of them knows I exist. I mean, why would they? I'm antisocial, I don't go to company outings, I don't eat in the break room, I'm overly sarcastic, and a tad bit petty. I wear black every day, because I'm dead on the inside. Once a month, at the staff meeting, I get to look at and lust over The Train.
I call them The Train, because that's exactly what I want them to run on me. I know more politically correct, prissy, or prude women would refer to it as a ménage à trois. However, that's just a sugar coated flowery way to refer to two men ramming all available holes at the same damn time. No matter what term you prefer, it's all the same. I could never choose one of them, so why not get dirty with both at the same time?
Today is my favorite day. It's staff meeting Tuesday. If I'm lucky, maybe I can sit close enough to sniff one of them. As I head toward the conference room, Bob stops me. "Hey, Vernice. Did you get a chance to review the report I sent you?" I respond with a blank stare. "Oh. Well, if you don't mind, I need you to look at it before the week is over." Now, I'm annoyed. I'm watching everyone, including The Train, going to the conference room, and I'm stuck in the hallway talking to this jerk.
"Bob, I don't know if anyone has told you, but you are not my supervisor. Good luck to you and that damn report." I don't give him a chance to respond. I head into the conference room and notice that almost all the chairs are taken. I head to the back of the room. My knees buckle slightly when I stop an empty seat between The Train. I rush to the seat. I don't even smooth the back of my dress before I sit, so there's a small piece of my bare ass touching the cold folding chair.
"Good morning," they both say to me in unison. "Morning," I stammer. "I hope this doesn't take all morning. I need to take my nap at 10:00," Dominic chuckles. "I'm going to take a nap during this boring meeting. If they turn the lights down, I'm counting sheep," David jokes. Although I'm sitting between them, they carry on their conversation as if I'm not there. They lean over to me to speak to each other and each time one leans over, I squeeze my thighs together. I'm afraid that they can smell the excitement brewing between my legs.
This is slow torture. I just want one of them to put his hand up my dress and give my clit a squeeze. The other one can pinch my nipples. I need to stop. I have to leave before I embarrass myself. "Hey, Dominic, do you have any gum?" David asks. Dominic reaches into his pocket, and pulls out a pack of gum. David reaches for a piece, but he drops it, and it falls in my lap. I'm afraid that the heat from my pussy is going to melt that gum.
David looks at my lap and then smiles at me, and he grabs the gum from my lap. That's it. I have to leave. If I don't leave this room right now, I'm going to get on my knees and blow them at the same time. As I'm preparing to sprint out of the room, the office manager finishes his long, boring presentation. Perfect. Now, I can really get the hell out of here.
I try to stand on shaky knees, and I feel slightly lightheaded, and the throbbing in my pussy needs to be tended to. I rush out of the conference room to my cubicle. I sit down and push myself as close as I can to the desk. I shove my index and middle finger into my vagina. I moan slightly. People around me are busy talking or working, so no one hears me. I really wouldn't give a fuck if they did.
I scoot down in my chair to get my fingers further inside me. I close my eyes, and I think of The Train. I'm on my knees, and my mouth full of their dicks, and I am sucking like a pro. "Oh, she a nasty bitch," David says to Dominic. "Let's see how nasty," Dominic replies. They both withdraw from my mouth. David rips his dress off me. He positions himself on the floor. "Come sit on top of me," he commands.
I slide down on his dick. He smiles at me. Oh, his dick is so big. I'm no punk, so I stifle the scream that's stuck in my throat. I feel Dominic move closer to me. David grabs the back of my neck and forces me to kiss him. Dominic slaps my ass as he kneels behind me. He spreads my ass cheeks and spits directly into my asshole. There's no time to prepare myself for the pain that comes next.
He plunges his cock into my ass with reckless abandon. I don't know which wonderful pain to concentrate on. I want to moan, but I can't. David is choking me while Dominic is pulling my hair. The pounding in my ass and pussy is intensifying, and I cannot wait for them to come. I want to feel them unload inside me. When they nut, it feels like a water main has burst inside of me. I feel like I'm the most delectable cream pie.
The image of my pussy and ass overflowing with their cum sends me over the top. I'm about to orgasm. I wish I wasn't at work, so I could scream their names. I bite down on my bottom lip. "I'm about to come. I'm about to come," I say it over and over again in my head. My legs start to shake, and the sweet release runs down my thighs. I don't want to open my eyes. I want to bask in this afterglow, but I know that I have to work at some point.
I push away from my desk, and I open my eyes, and at this horrifying moment, I wish I could just disappear. The Train is standing in the entrance of my cubicle. "You forgot this in the conference room," Dominic smirks as he holds my badge.
Erica: All right, all right, all right. Welcome back. So Kenrya, did you like the two stories?
Kenrya: I did. This collection has like, what? Six or seven-
Kenrya: ... different stories in it? We knew we wanted to use something, but it was like trying to figure out which ones, and what was the best mix, and that whole kind of thing. I like the two that we picked, because they give us something good to talk about.
Erica: I will start with The Tease. The first time I read this story, I thought of the great Cardi B's quote, in which she said, "I talk about my pussy all the time, because my pussy my best friend." I feel like there are so many times that women, we got to talk to our pussy and be like, "Look bitch-"
Kenrya: "Simmer down."
Erica: "... calm the fuck down with your fast ass."
Kenrya: "This not about you."
Erica: Yeah. "It ain't about you." I think we so often talk about thinking with our heart versus our head, and we forget that sometimes our pussy be making some fucked up decisions for us. You know with all your mind that this man ain't for you. You know with all your heart that this man ain't for you. But your homegirl, your little pussy, your little pocketbook, your little coopappy, whatever you call it, be like, "Hey bitch. Don't forget me." She will have you in some fucked up situations.
Kenrya: It's true.
Erica: I really like this, because this reminds me of all the times that I've had to talk to my pussy and be like, "Girl, calm down." She's an ignorant homegirl, like, "Nah, but fuck that. We can do it. We can do it. We can go out and make it home in time for work."
Kenrya: She's the worst, like an impulse. Have you doing the fucking walk of shame to work and shit.
Erica: Exactly. Exactly. One of the things that I also liked about this, she said that the reason that she kind of got ... she even found herself in this dilemma with this guy was because she was talking shit on her pussy to dude, and he was going to teach her a lesson. Do you talk shit on your pussy?
Kenrya: Shit. Only when I'm actually actively using it, you know? Like, "See how wet this pussy is?" You know what I mean? Like when I'm in the act. But no, I don't talk shit on my pussy ahead of time. Mm-mm (negative).
Erica: Oh, shit.
Kenrya: I'm taking it you do.
Erica: Oh, I do. My pussy could buy and sell homes, and all that.
Kenrya: Bitch, when she said-
Erica: So speaking of that, I really liked that line, because I think that there are-
Kenrya: When she said he's a real estate agent? Yeah.
Erica: Yeah, I think so many times, we have been in positions where we felt like we've been with someone, and be like, "Oh, this nigga is all I need. He is the alpha, the omega, the beginning, the end. He is all I need." However, I hate it when men do that shit. Have you ever been just in a bad mood and nigga be like, "You need some dick"?
Kenrya: That's the fastest way to dry anything up. I don't need shit. That's not-
Erica: I mean, maybe I do, but let me realize it. You don't tell me what I need.
Kenrya: Your shit is not a fucking cure all. It's not fucking Tussin. I'm like, you ain't just going to pour it on shit and I'm going to be better.
Erica: Rub some Tussin on it.
Kenrya: Like, bitch, get the fuck away from me. That would instantly turn me off.
Erica: Yeah, and so that was a cool part, because I have been in situations where I be like, "Look, life is wrong. All I need is this man and his dick, and the sun will shine brighter." On the other end, I think because women say that to themselves, men are quick to ... It's kind of like when you go to the nail shop, and you know you need to get your lip waxed, but then they offer you a lip wax. "Bitch, I see this. You let me tell you that I need my lip waxed. Don't be offering up no lip wax."
Kenrya: You know what's fucking funny, though? See, I have anxiety, and I've been having a super high anxiety past couple of weeks. There's a lot of shit going on. Legit, on Monday, my friend was like-
Erica: Your partner?
Kenrya: My partner was like, "Hey, come over here." He was like, "You're super stressed. Let me do something about that." I felt a way. I was like, "I don't want no pity fuck." He was like, "First of all, it's never a pity fuck." He's like, "But second of all, I mean, that shit help you relax." I really couldn't say shit, except for, "Okay."
Erica: I mean, you could offer some weed or something. Fucking shopping.
Kenrya: You know, he real on the straight and narrow. It ain't going to be none of that.
Erica: Well, that's fine. Give me a credit card number would've gave-
Kenrya: No, it worked.
Erica: ... me that kind of excitement, too.
Kenrya: I felt absolutely fantastic after. It was exactly what I needed, but my immediate instinct was-
Erica: "Don't tell me what I need."
Kenrya: Yeah. I want that shit, but I did. I did want it.
Erica: Again, back to the lip wax. Like bitch, I see my shit is furry. I see you see my shit is furry, but let me be the one to tell you that I need my lip waxed.
Kenrya: I'm not going to front. I am glad to know that I have another tool in my anti-anxiety toolbox, which is his penis.
Erica: Okay. Well, I'm glad you can add that to your list of things. Hopefully, you can use your FSA card. Well, you can use your FSA card to buy condoms and lube.
Kenrya: Can you, really?
Erica: You can use a FSA card to buy condoms and ... You can't buy like, Astroglide, but you can buy like, Pre-Seed. Like when you're trying to get-
Kenrya: What the fuck is Pre-Seed?
Erica: It's the lube that ... Lube kills sperm.
Kenrya: It helps with mobility.
Erica: Yeah, but Pre-Seed keeps them swimming.
Kenrya: Well, nobody wants that.
Erica: Okay. Let me not say lube kills sperm, because I don't need motherfuckers squirting lube up their pussy.
Kenrya: It slows them down.
Erica: Yeah, but you can buy that kind of shit with it.
Kenrya: Oh. I didn't know that.
Erica: Yeah. There's some sort of health write off.
Kenrya: All I literally see in my head is the Tip Drill video, with the credit card.
Erica: Now us hoes take Cash App. Cash App and Zelle. We don't need you to scan a credit card down our butt crack.
Kenrya: It literally is just making me think of that. I mean, iconic moment.
Erica: Iconic moment. Shout out to our homeboy Nelly from the 314. Oh, he's problematic, isn't he?
Kenrya: Is he?
Erica: I think he had a sex ... Like a rape situation.
Erica: Or rape allegation. You know everybody has rape allegations that magically get just settled.
Kenrya: Disappear, and we don't never hear about it anymore.
Erica: Exactly, so it was one of those.
Kenrya: Okay, so I take back the shout out.
Kenrya: Exactly. Yes, bitch.
Erica: That was me taking out the shout out until I can further confirm that he is unproblematic.
Kenrya: That's not going to happen.
Erica: Yeah. Okay, so you don't talk shit on your pussy.
Kenrya: I don't, yeah. Just in the act. It's very much a, "You feel that?" That kind of thing. It's never a, "Wait until you get in there." Nah. Mm-mm (negative), I brag on other shit.
Erica: "Wait until I show you. Wait until I show you how my pussy works."
Kenrya: Oh god.
Erica: I'm sorry.
Kenrya: Brian McKnight.
Erica: I don't know if we can shout him out either, but anyway ...
Kenrya: No, I would prefer not to.
Erica: The tease of this story is so sexy to me. I am an impatient person by nature. Whatever, bitch. I don't need you to-
Kenrya: I'm also an impatient person.
Erica: ... cosign so quickly, hoe.
Kenrya: It's a self drag, bitch.
Erica: Okay. Well, we drug ourselves.
Erica: Yeah, the tease, it's just so fucking sexy to me, because I love the anticipation. I love waiting, and imagining, and all of that. I could totally see myself in bed with a whole story situation of a dick that I barely even saw, let alone felt the warmth of, and she said he don't let her-
Kenrya: Yeah, feel the actual warmth.
Erica: Oh, I was like, "You cold motherfucker." See?
Kenrya: Yeah, he fucking with her.
Erica: Then, I'd fuck him, and rip his dick off, and bang it against my chest. Then, he'd be mad wondering, "She ripped my dick off. What happened?" You was playing too many damn games. Playing too many games. What about you? You like a tease?
Kenrya: I do like a tease, but only to a certain point. You know how-
Erica: Quit playing, quit playing, quit playing.
Kenrya: You know, I hit walls, right? You know, when we texting?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: You always know that I hit my wall because it be like the three dots, and then they go away, and then the phone is going to ring two seconds later?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: That's me, in all situations. I'm good until I'm not good, and then I'm like, "Okay, fuck this."
Erica: "Fuck this shit."
Kenrya: "Either we going to do this or we not going to do this," and then I'm out. So yes. Just, you got to know the delicate balance of how much you can tease me before I'm like, "All right." Because I'm an Aries. I'm like, "Fuck this shit."
Erica: Have you had those situations, where you're with someone, and it was like, "Okay, this is cool, but now ... Okay, nigga, turn a page."
Kenrya: So remember homecoming last year?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: I took a young gentleman home with me who had been properly vetted by the people, and it was very hot and heavy, whatever. He was drunk, I was completely sober. Things started going, and they were very good. At one point, I was just like, "Oh!" You know, I exclaimed about how good the situation was, and he said something, talking shit, talking about, "Yeah, you need to get you a Scorpio." I'm like, "Huh. Okay."
Erica: Yeah. All right now.
Kenrya: Which is also when I realized I don't think I've ever fucked a Scorpio. I know that they have these reputations, but I don't think I've actually ever done that before.
Erica: I don't think I've ever fucked a Scorpio either.
Kenrya: I mean, aren't they evil? I mean, I have some great friends who are Scorpios, who are not evil-
Erica: Yeah, I have good friends who are Scorpio.
Kenrya: ... but they're women, so I don't know.
Erica: Yeah. I don't know. Niggas are evil. Not all of them-
Kenrya: Not all men.
Erica: ... to our great gentlemen, nonproblematic listeners. But anyway.
Kenrya: Yes, so he was bragging on himself, but whatever. We're going and going, and it's a lot of foreplay. I like foreplay, but I was ready to get to the main event.
Erica: Yeah. I am quick to be like, "Record scratch."
Kenrya: Let's go.
Kenrya: Take that off now. Let's go. Or put that on now. Whatever. It just kept going, and then I realized, I'm looking at him ... We changed venues, and he ain't look quite right. He's a little unsteady.
Erica: He was green in the face.
Erica: Oh, that's why. It was a delay tactic.
Kenrya: Yes, and so I literally had to be like, "Oh shit."
Erica: "You're not well."
Kenrya: "You need to stop."
Erica: Yeah, "You're not well. I'm going to catch a case fucking with you."
Kenrya: Yeah, and he was like, "Nah, nah. I'm good." I was like, "Nigga, consent go both ways, and you are too drunk to consent, and a bitch ain't trying to catch a case."
Erica: You're so sweet.
Kenrya: I legit shut it down.
Kenrya: I sent him to the bathroom, and helped him to ... He had to vomit. It was not good. At first, it was just like, "Okay, this is fun." Then, it was like, "Okay, this is going on too long." Then, it's like, "Something is wrong."
Erica: You know me and kissing.
Kenrya: Oh yeah. That's not your thing. I love kissing. Love it. I know.
Erica: Look at me. Listeners, get real close-
Kenrya: She looks disgusted.
Erica: Get real close to your-
Erica: ... to your ... I was going to say to your mic. To your speakers. Listen to me. Kissing is nasty.
Kenrya: It's not.
Erica: It's gross.
Kenrya: It's sexy as fuck.
Erica: I mean, I am learning to enjoy kissing more. You know, so when I'm making out, I kiss, but then if it's too much kissing, I am aware of the fact that I'm kissing, and then I get back in my head, and I be like, "We're kissing."
Kenrya: Like, "His mouth is in my mouth."
Erica: Yeah, and so then I have to slow that shit down. I can't think of a particular instance where I've had to tap out, but I definitely am-
Kenrya: Like tap out on a tease?
Erica: Yeah, just tap out on like, "Okay, this is too much."
Kenrya: "That's enough. That's enough."
Erica: Because yeah. You know how when you're drunk, and you get to a point ... For me, I get to a point, it's either like I'm going to keep drinking and I'm going to go-
Kenrya: Or you going to go to sleep.
Erica: ... or I'm going to keep drinking and I'm going to go to sleep. That's how it is with foreplay. Either we get to a point where it's like, "All right. It's go time." Or we get to a point where it's like, "Pack your dick up, and let's keep it moving."
Kenrya: Right, you ain't really trying to do nothing.
Erica: So yeah. All right, so moving on to The Train.
Erica: Opening part of the story that I loved, was that homegirl was clearly on team Fuck This Shit.
Kenrya: She was.
Erica: She was like-
Kenrya: This bitch said, "I wear black because I'm dead inside."
Erica: She was the captain of team Fuck This Shit.
Kenrya: (Singing). Fuck This Shit.
Erica: "I'm here for my check every two weeks. I hate y'all niggas. I'm dead inside. I'm going to deliver-"
Kenrya: I could barely read that without cackling.
Erica: "... a bag of dicks for y'all to suck every day, because fuck this and y'all."
Kenrya: When she told that nigga Bob, "You ain't my supervisor."
Erica: In the most dead ass like, "You ain't my supervisor. Fuck you-"
Kenrya: She's like, "I don't know if anybody's told you this-"
Erica: "... and your TPS reports."
Kenrya: Literally, I saw him in my head. That's what Bob looked like to me.
Erica: "It'd be really nice if you could come in on Saturday."
Kenrya: No, Bob.
Erica: She was clearly on team Fuck This Shit, which I found hilarious, because she also found the one piece of thing that kept shit alive at work. We've all been-
Kenrya: Looking at these niggas.
Erica: We've all been in situations at work, where we're like-
Kenrya: What's the thing that I can hold onto that makes me get up and do this shit every day?
Erica: Exactly. For her, it's The Train. What's the name, Brian and Dominic?
Kenrya: David and Dominic?
Erica: Oh see. I've been getting are wrong name.
Kenrya: A whole 'nother-
Erica: Yeah, I'm bad with names. Okay, so David and Dominic. They are wowza. One of the questions I have for you, because she was like, "Hey, I'm captain of team Fuck This Shit. I don't want to be here. Fuck this, fuck this job, fuck everybody here except for-"
Kenrya: "Fuck you."
Erica: "... my boos, David and Dominic."
Kenrya: Who don't even know her, which is crazy.
Erica: Yeah. She said, "I like them because I want to run a train on me. A good, nasty sloppy choo choo."
Kenrya: I was like, "But it's not a train." So I was very much like, "Okay."
Erica: Yeah, so I was going to ask you, what are your thoughts regarding the terminology? Do you prefer train, threesome, ménage à trois?
Kenrya: It's not a train.
Erica: What are your thoughts on it?
Kenrya: I mean, to me a train is like multiple dicks. Two is not multiple. Okay, so the very first porn that I ever legit watched was at my homegirl's house down the street. She had gone in her parents fucking stash, and it was in the basement, and nobody ever used to bother-
Erica: Oh yeah. Y'all was watching porn early.
Kenrya: I don't know how old we were.
Erica: I mean, I didn't see porn until college, but this was-
Erica: We came to college in covered wagons on the Conestoga, and so we didn't have ... It wasn't internet.
Kenrya: Yeah, no. This was like a VHS tape. We were probably in middle school, maybe. I think that's the first time I'd ever seen porn. It's certainly the first thing I remember. It was like-
Erica: Male centered, some-
Erica: ... nigga with a bush.
Kenrya: They had this chick, and I'm trying to remember, because you know my shit's like Swiss cheese, because trauma, but she was like-
Erica: Oh, I thought you was talking about my thighs. All this good cellulitis.
Kenrya: That's cottage cheese, and it's beautiful.
Erica: Oh, I like it. Shake and bake. Cellulitis.
Kenrya: What I remember is they had the woman sitting in a chair, and they were interviewing her, but it wasn't like ... You know how when you watch porn now, it's not really an interview? It's like her pulling out her nipple.
Erica: Okay, so on some of the porn sites, on the really kinky ... on some of them, they do an interview. I'm not sure if it's before or after, because I usually scrub through that part, because I'm like ..."Get to the fucking part." They interview them, and I think it's more of like a check-in, like, "You consented to all of this, right?" So she's sitting there like, "Yeah, I consent." Was it one of those type things?
Kenrya: No, I feel like they were asking her, "You like to fuck. You a nasty little bitch, huh?" Kind of a thing. Talking shit.
Erica: I mean, in the right situation, I might like it, too.
Kenrya: Then, she goes into a room ... Right, and then it's like ... From what I remember, I think they were just adding dudes. I think they got up to like eight or nine dudes. It was like ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like a legit ass train. In my mind, that's what I default to when I think of a train. Literally, like, "Choo choo motherfucker," a line of niggas.
Erica: See, for me, a train is ... In my mind, a train is like niggas nutting in you, and you getting nothing out of it. I mean, and some women-
Kenrya: Yeah, yeah. I'm not ... Yeah.
Erica: Some people like that. Again, I aint yucking your yum. If you like being used, I mean, I might on a nice day, too. For me, a train is just no care or concern for the woman's, or for the other person-
Kenrya: The other person's, yeah, sexual needs or-
Erica: ... the recipient's needs, or desires, or wants.
Kenrya: ... needs as a person.
Erica: It's just like, "You here. We sticking it in something. Let's go." Whereas, I mean, I tend to use the term threesome, or ... Well. Again, I-
Kenrya: She looks very thoughtful.
Erica: Biting the lip, eyes rolling in the back of my head. No, yeah. I tend to use the term threesome, even if it's more than three, just because in my mind, it's just group sex. People doing things, touching places, stuff going places.
Kenrya: See, for me, when I hear group sex, I think orgy. I imagine a lot of people fucking, and fucking each other. Yeah, the terminology's interesting, but I will say that when I read The Train, just two dudes didn't make me ... That was different.
Erica: Which I think also says a lot about the head space of ... What's the girl's name?
Kenrya: Mistress Envy.
Erica: No, the woman in the-
Kenrya: We don't-
Kenrya: Oh, Vernice.
Erica: Oh, Vernice. Brenda.
Kenrya: You done gave everybody a new name!
Erica: Brenda, Brian, and Dominic. Dominic's the only one whose name I know. Bernice?
Erica: Hush. She got a name like she go to lunch buffets and be like, "Make sure you give me the noodles from the back, because everybody be breathing on the ones in the front."
Kenrya: I even know somebody named Vernice.
Erica: No, I don't say this disparagingly, because I know the tricks of a good lunch buffet.
Kenrya: See, I don't-
Erica: You grab from the back.
Kenrya: ... so I just thought that was a very surprising moment. I just learned some shit.
Erica: Yeah, you grab from the back. That could be used ... That piece of advice can be used most places.
Kenrya: I'm about to say, that's what she said. I like it.
Erica: What was I ... Oh, shit. I lost my train of thought.
Kenrya: You were saying-
Erica: Oh, it shows the frame of thought of Vernice, and I guess that's why they're like, "Oh, she's just a quiet ..." She was like, "They don't recognize me," because she probably is sexually-
Kenrya: Repressed or inexperienced?
Erica: I don't even want to say repressed.
Kenrya: But then she said that-
Erica: Not exposed to a lot.
Kenrya: Right, but then she said, "A prissy, prudish, whatever person would call it a ménage à trois." I'm like, "What?"
Erica: In her mind, she's probably like, "Yeah." She's like, "But I am a nasty bitch, so I'm going to use the most raunchy term ever." It's kind of like when you talk to someone, and I can't come up with a good example, but you know, you talk to someone, and they're like, "I'm living on the wild side." You're like, "What you do?"
Kenrya: That bitch just got mismatched socks on.
Erica: They're like, "I wore white after Labor Day." I'm like, "No bitch." That's kind of how I feel with her. Granted, her fantasy was great.
Kenrya: Well, but I'm about to say-
Erica: Her fantasy was great. She knew what-
Kenrya: Also, this bitch masturbated at her desk.
Erica: Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever masturbated-
Kenrya: Hell nah.
Erica: Well, you never worked in a real office? You have.
Kenrya: Well, no. I haven't worked in an office in more than a decade. But fuck no. I have never. No judgment if that is a thing, because it look like you about to say you have. But no. I have always worked in super ... You know, magazines. It's very collaborative. You've got people in and out your office. Nah, son. No, no. I haven't. Tell your story.
Erica: I mean, it's not even a story. I've had lots of work sex, but I've also had masturbation at work sex. Yeah.
Kenrya: Is after hours?
Erica: I mean masturbation at work. Masturbation sex. No, in the middle of the day.
Erica: Oh my god. I sound like a fucking sexual predator.
Kenrya: No, you don't. I just, I'm trying to work out the mechanics and the logistics.
Erica: So I was fooling around with a little something something, a little freak. I was fooling around with a little freak, and we was getting spicy in the middle of the day. He was like, "Come for me." I was like, "Now?" He was like, "Yeah, right now." I was like, "Okay." I mean, had I been in a different space or whatever, I probably ... I was going to say if you told me to-
Kenrya: This is exciting.
Erica: ... do it right now, I probably wouldn't. No, I probably would for the right person. I can't do it right now, because my office is all glass right now. You know, in the right situation, yeah. I mean, I definitely would said no if-
Kenrya: Wait, were y'all texting and he told you that?
Erica: Yeah. We was sexting in the middle of the day.
Kenrya: In the middle of the day, yes.
Erica: I'm such a whore.
Kenrya: It's fine. I fuck in the middle of the day all the time.
Erica: Yeah, so I was sexting in the middle of the day, and then he was like, "You know, we talking shit." I was doing my self written porn, my self written erotica. You know, he was like, me talking shit on my pussy, he was like, "Well, come for me." I was like-
Erica: "Challenge." I did, and it was a good one. Then, you know, kept it moving.
Erica: It might've been, "All right, I'm done. I'll talk to you later. Have a good day." Got him. I've never been caught.
Kenrya: Thank god. That's a lot. This is a lot.
Kenrya: Yeah. I can't even not wear underwear because it's a problem. How do you-
Erica: I mean, I wasn't squirting at my desk. Shit. It wasn't like that. You're definitely soggy.
Kenrya: You know, I don't wear like work clothes. I don't know what those are. I'm like, how do you-
Erica: I probably had on a skirt, and closed my office door. You know, when your office door is closed. I mean, I think I locked it, but it's always a signal like-
Kenrya: People leave you the fuck alone.
Erica: "Some shit's going on. Knock on the door." Yeah. Closed the door, sat at my desk, rubbed one out, done. Then, I went back to work.
Kenrya: That's dope.
Erica: Yeah. I've had more office sex than office masturbation, but I ain't going to say that I haven't had office masturbation. Yeah, it was pretty damn dope. Have you ever had a crush on a coworker?
Kenrya: Oh shit.
Erica: Or a fantasy, or you know ...
Kenrya: A minor one once. Huh? No.
Erica: Okay, we're mouthing names to one another right now.
Kenrya: I mean, I have always worked in magazines before I started working for myself as an editorial consultant and all this shit. I prefer Black men, and those are widely ... There are very few Black men in those spaces. I did, at one point, I was crushing on someone. We actually went on, what I discovered partway through, was a date.
Erica: You told me that.
Kenrya: I didn't realize it was a date, which has actually happened to me like three times.
Erica: Yeah. I have no idea how that's going.
Kenrya: Well, it's happened to me twice and what's funny is they were both white men.
Erica: Oh shit. Oh my god. That happened to me once.
Erica: Oh my god.
Kenrya: You know, whenever I share this, I'm like, I feel like I don't know what it is about that dynamic where they ask you out, but they're not really clear. In this situation, this person was my friend, and they asked if I wanted to go see a movie, and I said yes, and I thought we were just as friends going to see this movie, but he came around and opened my door, and I was like, "Uh oh."
Erica: You ain't from the South. This ain't your normal.
Kenrya: Right. Then, we went to eat before the movie and he paid. I was like, "Oh fuck. Are we on a date?" I mean, I thought he was a cutie pie, but we were really good friends or whatever.
Erica: I've definitely had dates where I've looked at men and was like, "Look, you ain't getting no pussy, so if you want to go half on this meal-"
Kenrya: That's okay.
Erica: "... I'm perfectly okay with that." When we went to Fogo de Chão, it was on some random like, "Oh, let's go grab ..." I'm sorry. I'm going to let you finish your story. It was on some random like, "Let's go grab a meal." New restaurant opened, went to Fogo, we ate, and then the bill came, and I happened to see it, and I had to pause, and was like, "Look, this is expensive. I'll go half on you, because you ain't getting no pussy, but I'll tell you now, if I was you, and I paid this much for someone to eat, they sucking or fucking."
Kenrya: Really, though?
Erica: Kenrya gave me the most ignorant look.
Kenrya: Yes, because you feel like niggas ... Well, there's two questions there, right? Do you think that men expect ass because they paid for some shit?
Erica: No. Let me explain something. I don't feel obligated to give ass-
Kenrya: Okay, that was going to be my second part.
Erica: ... because they paid for some shit. However, if I was a nigga, and I paid some random bitch, I put out ... This was like right out of college, nigga's making like four dollars an hour. I mean, it was a stretch. It was like anniversary level dinner, like cost and stuff. I was like, "Whoa."
Kenrya: This is special occasion.
Erica: "Bro, if I was you, and I took a rando out, and we ended up at an anniversary dinner, I'd be like, 'Hey bitch.'"
Kenrya: At least she's licking.
Erica: I'm so horrible. That is so problematic. I know that I hold problematic views, and I will check myself on them. No, I don't feel obligated to give niggas ass, but if I was a nigga and I spent $200 on a chick I barely knew for fucking meat sweats, I'd be like, "Yo, that ain't the only meat you eating tonight."
Kenrya: Oh my god.
Erica: Okay. Sorry, and that ends Erica's Problematic Hour.
Kenrya: I've never had anyone make me feel like I owed them or whatever. It wasn't that that dude made you feel that way. It was just what as playing in your head.
Kenrya: I don't think I've ever felt that way. I don't think I have.
Erica: Yeah, I'd probably hit you with the hard "tuh" if you dared try to act like I owed you something.
Erica: Can y'all get your crusty ass on?
Kenrya: Yeah. I don't think ... That's interesting. I do wonder if men are being super honest, if they ever do really ... I mean, I think they do. I think especially these misogynistic ass dudes who be trolling people on Twitter, who absolutely ... The ones who will be like, "This is why niggas don't want to take y'all out, because y'all expect people to pay for this, that, and the third, and you don't even want to try nothing." You know, all the mealy mouth.
Erica: I've been really lucky to just generally date nice guys. Even when I told dude that, he looked at me and just laughed. It was very funny. No, I think I ended up fucking him, but anyway, yeah. He was a good guy. I've been lucky to have avoided, or at least avoided intimate situations. I mean, I've definitely run across a few niggas like that, but we've never made it to dinner.
Kenrya: Right, because you could see that already.
Erica: Yeah, yeah.
Kenrya: Weeding them out.
Erica: Okay, so-
Kenrya: Oh, no, I was telling the story about ... Not about them, but another thing that I've experienced with white men with this whole accidental dating shit. So the other time, which was really the egregious time, I interviewed to work at this magazine, got along really well.
Erica: Drop a name.
Erica: Oh, all right.
Kenrya: Got along really well with the guy who I was interviewing with, came back for a second interview. Then, allegedly, they decided that they actually weren't going to build out this new division that they were bringing me in.
Erica: Oh, that's fucked up. Oh, so then he used it as a pussy grab?
Kenrya: Well, basically. It was like, well, he called me, and it was like, "You know, we decided not to move forward with creating this division, but you know ..." One of the things we connected on was his volunteer work, and you know I'm always, "What can I do?" He was like, "You know, we should grab dinner and talk about how you can work with the organization." I was like, "Let's do that." We meet at this restaurant, and it's fine, we talk. We are actually talking about the thing we're supposed to be talking about, whatever.
Kenrya: Then, he's like, "You know, there's a speakeasy around the corner." This is New York. "You want to try it out?" I ain't never been to a speakeasy before. I'm like 24, 25. I'm like, "Shit, yeah. Let's go." It's one of these you got to know the password, and nondescript door, you know, whatever. Go, have a really good drink. This is back when I used to drink liquor. As he starts drinking, it becomes very clear.
Erica: That he want some of that.
Erica: Some of that what? That ass.
Kenrya: Yeah. Then, it's super awkward, because I'm not in any way interested in this guy. I did genuinely want to work on this charity stuff with him, and now I'm out on this date that I didn't realize was a date, and I got to extract myself. The Kenrya of today, first of all, I would've not gone to this-
Erica: Your spidey senses would've-
Kenrya: Exactly, but also, if I had gotten to that point and I realized what was going on, I would've been like, "Hey, I'm happy to work with you on this, but I'm not interested in you," and I would've fucking left. I was like, "Oh, you know." I played it out. I didn't whatever, but then he walked me to the train, and he's all in my face, and that's when I finally had to be like, "Yeah, no. No, no, no. No, no, no."
Erica: You know what's fucked up? I feel like so often this is how men end up ... Well, this is how these sexual harassment cases, or these situations come about, where women are put in these really creepy fucking positions with these guys who are just like, "Oh." Had you, you know, called him out on it, like, "Dude, you trying to fuck." He'd have been like, "Oh, no. We're just trying to connect, because you know."
Kenrya: Exactly. Now you getting gaslit.
Kenrya: And you in this small industry where everybody knows everybody. If he decides to be a vindictive asshole, now we got another whole situation.
Erica: I was a kid when the whole Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas-
Kenrya: Bitch, we the same age.
Erica: ... situation.
Kenrya: I, too, was a kid when it happened.
Erica: Well, I'm talking to our listeners.
Kenrya: Okay, shit.
Erica: I was a kid when the Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas situation went down, so I didn't really understand it as it was going on. Now that I'm an adult, and I've been working for years, and I watched the documentary that HBO did. I'm like, "I totally get this. I totally understand." I don't think men understand how, as a woman, you are put in situations with creepy fucking guys, and a lot of times, I mean I hate to say it, but it's just easier to be like, "You know what? Fuck it. Tell him to leave me alone. He knows not to cross the line with me." But there's probably a few other chicks that aren't as-
Kenrya: Able to stand up in theirselves.
Erica: Exactly, exactly.
Kenrya: Yeah, for various reasons.
Erica: Or, there are a good number of men that I deal with professionally, that are fucking creeps. Unfortunately, not that I keep them around, but I have to-
Kenrya: You still have to interact with them because of what you do.
Erica: I still have to interact with them, because I know I'm going to see them at a fundraiser. At this, or at that, or at this. To outside, they're like, "Oh, yeah. Erica's cool with so and so." I'm like, "No, he's a fucking creep. His number's in my phone because I know I'm going to run into him, and I can't burn that bridge, but he's a fucking creepazoid." I'll step off my soap box, and we'll probably go into this a little bit more at some other point.
Kenrya: Sure. It's pervasive, unfortunately.
Erica: Exactly, and I was going to say this is from the woman who fucks and masturbates at work, but I should be able to fuck and masturbate at work, or talk about, you know-
Kenrya: Should you? I mean, I know it's not usually expressly in the handbook, I would imagine.
Erica: No, no. This is the woman, I should be able to be my whole sexual self without-
Kenrya: Correct. Absolutely.
Erica: ... having to feel like I then can't say-
Kenrya: Reject the fucking creep.
Erica: "This is a fucking creep." Anyway. Overarching theme for this, these two stories are (singing) "I wanna lick lick lick you from your head to your toes, and I wanna, ooh from the bed down down to the floor. And I wanna make it so good I don't wanna leave and tell me whats your fantasy!".
Kenrya: (Singing along).
Erica: Okay, so I never know the words to a song.
Kenrya: You started it, then you got partway through and was like, "Oh."
Erica: I don't know where this song is going, but we're just going to keep going.
Kenrya: I want to see where it ends up.
Erica: Fantasies. In The Tease, she had a fantasy of Dominic. In The Train, Bernice had a fantasy of the train. Has there ever been someone you fantasized about? Not on some like, "I fantasize about Morris Chestnut," but someone a little more-
Kenrya: I've done that.
Erica: Someone a little more tangible that's been in arm's reach that you've fantasized about.
Kenrya: I don't know. I mean, yes, but in general, I usually fantasize about people I've already had sex with. I replay.
Erica: You don't have forward facing fantasies like, "Oh, I'm going to get that," or, "I want that"?
Kenrya: Yes. I have, and then I have.
Erica: How was it? Was it a let down? That was going to be my next question.
Erica: Have you ever had someone you fantasized about, and then got it? Got into bed with him, and it was like ...
Kenrya: I mean, I've definitely had-
Erica: That was supposed to be the Plinko.
Erica: Anyway, okay.
Kenrya: Yes, The Price is Right. Obviously, I've had people who I had sex with and it was fucking trash, or who I had to stop because it was clear it was going to be trash.
Erica: Wait, you stopped and put your panties on?
Kenrya: Oh, yes.
Erica: Story time.
Kenrya: I've got a story. You'd like to hear it? And now, welcome Story Time with Killer Ken. This dude. He went to our school. He went to our college. I used to see him out. I never saw him on campus, but I always would see him whenever-
Erica: Which tells me, he should've had a good dick if he just-
Kenrya: ... we would go to club. You would think.
Erica: Because all the niggas with good dicks are the ones that ... All the niggas that do a lot of nothing-
Kenrya: Got good dicks.
Erica: ... got good dicks, because they've got nothing to do but-
Kenrya: But practice.
Erica: ... work on technique.
Erica: Okay, so sorry.
Kenrya: I used to see him all the time. Didn't even really know his name, but it was one of those where you see this cat all the time, so y'all speak, you know? Plus, I'm real bad about remembering people's faces and whatever the fuck. Saw him after I moved to New York after college randomly somewhere. Still didn't know his name. Just knew that I knew him. We spoke, and then we ... I think how I got his name was I just gave him my phone to put his number in it.
Erica: Good job.
Kenrya: Smart bitch. We decided to hook up. I think we went to the movies or something. I remember I went back to his apartment and there was a brush in the shower. It looked like a woman had been using it. He claimed it was roommate's girlfriend. Of course, that was the first red flag, but whatever. I wasn't messing with him. The next time we got together, we ended up back at my place, and I was like, "All right. Let's try it out." It's the biggest dick I've ever seen in real life.
Erica: Nothing is worse than a massive dickYes, who don't know ...
Erica: Massive dicks are like really attractive people. You've lived your entire life off of just being really attractive. You've put no effort into this massive fucking dick, so you're literally just sloshing that bitch around.
Kenrya: Oh yes. So you know my story. Get in there, pulls it out. It's like my forearm.
Erica: Oh my gosh.
Kenrya: It's massive. I'm already feeling a little trepidatious, but I'm like, all right, you know.
Erica: Mama ain't raise no quitter.
Kenrya: Yeah. Let's see what we could do here. Foreplay's happening. There's not a lot of it. I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'm noting." Pulls it out, puts on a condom. Remember that episode of Sex and the City where somebody was with the jackrabbit, Carrie was, and her neck was messed up the next day? It was like that, except for he hadn't even got it in yet.
Erica: What was he doing? Just nutting on your thigh?
Kenrya: Girl, I think it was like ... I mean, I like a good rub on the situation, but it was like he was just banging at the entrance. I was like, "Oh. Nope. That's enough."
Erica: At this point, you're just masturbating in me.
Kenrya: He wasn't even in me.
Erica: Well masturbating-
Kenrya: On my-
Erica: Oh my gosh.
Kenrya: I was like, "Nope." He was like, "What you mean?" I was like, "No. Put that away."
Erica: Like it's a toy.
Kenrya: He looked so confused.
Erica: Like we're yelling at my dog.
Kenrya: Right. He put it away. I was like, "It's late. It's late. You can stay here if you want to." I was like, "But don't touch me." That was that on that.
Erica: He in bed curled up in a fetal position opposite of you.
Kenrya: With a hard dick, not touching me, because I told that nigga, "Do not touch me."
Erica: (Singing) "In the Arms of an Angel" playing. She fall asleep.
Kenrya: I mean, it was either that, or he was going to have to leave in the middle of the fucking night, and go back way, way downtown.
Erica: I mean, that's fine.
Kenrya: I feel like I did him a service by letting him stay.
Erica: Well, damn. Okay.
Kenrya: Yeah, it was that bad. Yes, I had to stop him before we could even get going.
Erica: Thus concludes Kenrya's Bad Dick Story Time.
Kenrya: Yeah, yes. I was proud of myself for not venturing-
Erica: Yeah, not going ahead with something that wasn't working.
Kenrya: It was clear that that was going to be bad. He literally figured, I think, that he had a big dick, and so he didn't have to really know how to use it. Not me. You not going to do that on me.
Erica: Yeah. I actually am a fan of a good smedium dick.
Kenrya: Me too.
Erica: You have to hone that skill.
Kenrya: Yeah, I have experienced that, where they know what they got, but they also know how to use it really well, and they know how to use other things.
Erica: Have you ever had a dick so big it surprised you?
Kenrya: That guy.
Erica: Yeah, I was with a dude, and he was a smaller guy, and he pulled his shit out, and it was weighty.
Kenrya: It flopped out.
Erica: The only thing that comes to mind was like, "Wow, that's a weighty dick. My God." I mean, it was big, but it was like girthy, and just weighty. He, too, didn't know what the fuck he was doing with it, but I was just like, "My, you walking around with that thing?"
Kenrya: I'm like, what a waste? What a waste if you don't know how to-
Erica: Well, no. You just ... Yeah. I mean, hopefully-
Kenrya: I mean, what a waste for him that he's-
Erica: ... he has sparkling personality, but yeah.
Kenrya: You know what I mean? That he's got all of that, but he's not really having good sex. If he don't really know how to use it, he's not ultimately having-
Erica: He's not giving good sex. He might be having good sex.
Kenrya: Well, that's true.
Erica: I mean, that's the thing. Sex is just-
Kenrya: Yeah, but even if he's getting it, imagine how much better it is if she's getting it, too. You know what I mean?
Erica: Yeah. You right.
Kenrya: He ain't really getting the full compliment of what can be going on. I once told somebody ... One time, a man disrobed and I literally said, "Congratulations." It was the first ... "Yo, congratulations."
Erica: That was the first thing that came to mind.
Kenrya: Yeah. It was surprising, and he actually did know how to use it, so yeah. It was pretty good.
Erica: That makes me happy.
Kenrya: He was a terrible person, but he was really good at using his penis.
Erica: All the good dicks are attached to trash ass people.
Kenrya: It happens often. It is nice-
Erica: Here's the thing.
Kenrya: ... when you can find it all together.
Erica: Very rarely does I ... Does I feel. Very rarely do I feel that anyone's completely a trash person. Sometimes, you're completely ... I mean, trash. You are a trash person, you've just got a really good dick, and that was the Lord being like, "You know what? We're going to give you one redeeming quality."
Kenrya: "And this will be your gift." Oh shit. That's awful, awful.
Erica: Oh, I'm trash.
Kenrya: Nah, you're not trash. Your honest.
Erica: Yes, I am. This wraps up this week's episode of The Turn On. Thank you for joining us. It's your lovely host Erica and Killa signing off, and we are two hoes making it clap.
Kenrya: Making it clap.
Kenrya: This week's episode was produced by us, Erica and Kenrya, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. Please subscribe to this show on your favorite podcast app, follow us on Twitter @TheTurnOnPod, and Instagram @TheTurnOnPodcast, and find lists of books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Bye.
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In Episode 4.5 of The Turn On, we interview Rebel Miller, the author of "Awakening," about world building and sex scenes as character development.
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Kenrya: Come here, get off.
Kenrya: Today we're chatting with Rebel Miller, author of Awakening, the first book in the Realm series, which we read an excerpt from in the last episode. Rebel Miller is a fiction author who writes gripping romances about charismatic leaders who often turn social conventions on their heads. Rebel earned a graduate degree in communications and culture from Ryerson University and an undergraduate degree from the University of the West Indies. Rebel, plus hubby and sons, lives in the outskirts of Toronto, Canada, and enjoys overindulging in Pinot Grigio and caramel popcorn.
Kenrya: And binges on an eclectic mix of movies, music, and angst filled romance novels. Rebel, thanks so much for talking to us today.
Rebel Miller: Well, thanks for having me.
Kenrya: Yeah. We're excited that you're here and Erica is especially excited about this Pinot Grigio and caramel popcorn.
Rebel Miller: Whoa.
Erica: Oh, I read that and said we could totally spend a weekend together.
Rebel Miller: Oh, for sure. Are you kidding me? That my go to, my go to.
Kenrya: I don't like either one of those things.
Rebel Miller: What?
Kenrya: I feel like... I don't.
Rebel Miller: Okay. You don't know what good Pinot Grigio is. That's the problem.
Kenrya: I don't drink wine. I don't know how to live.
Rebel Miller: You don't drink wine.
Kenrya: I'm living wrong.
Rebel Miller: Okay.
Kenrya: I'm not a wine person. Yeah. And I don't like Carmel. I'm weird. It's fine. I'm okay with it.
Kenrya: Oh, before we get started, what are your preferred pronouns?
Rebel Miller: Preferred pronouns? Oh, she, her, that kind of thing.
Rebel Miller: Yep.
Kenrya: Exactly that. Okay. Erica and I are both she and her as well.
Rebel Miller: Excellent.
Erica: So, we read your bio and, again, me too on the Pinot Grigio and caramel popcorn. But I want to hear how you describe what you do. So, can you tell me in one sentence what is it that you do?
Rebel Miller: I guess... one sentence, I write romances that speak to today's romance reader, and that person is living in a world where diversity is pretty much the norm and kind of trying to talk about identity in a different way. Yeah.
Erica: That's great. Did you always want to be an author?
Rebel Miller: It's so funny. I've always been a writer. So, I've done public relations in my lifetime. I do like consulting in that type of realm. And then, it was really five years ago, so what is that, 2014, 2015 actually, that it just occurred to me, you know what? The time is now. I've thought about it when I was in my early twenties and writing and I just didn't feel that I was emotionally ready. I didn't know what I had to say, kind of what I could add to the various romances or just fiction in general.
Rebel Miller: And then, as I got older, I had the two kids and my husband. I had more life experience behind me. I started to feel like, you know what? I was like, you know what? I think I do have something to say. And, of course, I've been reading romances all my life. Right? Like I remember being like... what was I, under ten and hiding in my mother's closet with a romance.
Kenrya: Yo, same.
Rebel Miller: What can I say?
Kenrya: I've read through like all of Danielle's Steel's books.
Rebel Miller: Oh, yeah.
Kenrya: Starting in the second grade. I'm like, it's so highly inappropriate. But like second, third, and fourth grade I was consumed with Danielle Steel.
Rebel Miller: Really? Exactly.
Kenrya: So wrong.
Rebel Miller: But they're great. That's the thing about romance novels. I think a lot of people... it's changing now, I think, especially with E-reading. I think people are viewing romances a little different because they're kind of open more open to it and willing to read it.
Rebel Miller: I remember giving a seminar or a talk about my books and I said, people turn their nose up at romance every now and then, but then I'm like, when you go to Walmart, what are the books filling up those shelves?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: Romance. I was like, who's reading them? So-
Erica: Yeah, that's right.
Rebel Miller: It's fulfilling the demand. Of course people love romance. You know?
Kenrya: What do you think changed? Why do you think it's like more out in the open now?
Rebel Miller: Well, I'm not sure. With the publishing industry and the Internet, there's been a lot of disruption, I'm sure you ladies know, in terms of a lot of writers being able to get their work out there.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: And what I noticed is, of course, you've got a lot more writers doing that. And then, because you're reading on your E-books or your mobile devices, not everybody knows that you're reading a romance. So, I think you can be on the train, or the subway, or the bus reading a romance now, whereas before I remember having to hide the book cover kind of.
Rebel Miller: I didn't want anybody to see. And now, it's not a problem. You can kind of get away with that indulgence. Like you download two books at once and you just kind of keep ripping through them. And so, I think there's just so many things in the industry changing, people changing. Look at diversity nowadays and people just thinking, I'm interested in learning more and being a little bit more free with kind of my thoughts, and my thinking, and love in general. Right?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: Yeah. That's what's up. I'm thinking, even kind of to that point about how so many more folks can really get out there and get their work out there, I think you are a really great example of that. And a quick look at your website even makes it clear that, beyond being a writer, you're a business woman. Like you can buy your books on your site, T-shirts, pillows, mugs, all kinds of branded stuff. I'm wondering what led you to start your own company and self-publish?
Rebel Miller: Yeah. So, for sure, I think any writer starting out thinks, well, do I go traditional, meaning with maybe the big publishers? Or do I do it myself? And, for me, I think I had a comfort level with my PR background already writing, understanding what goes into a production of a piece or a product that I could handle it on my own. And then, there was the whole idea of do I really want to go through years of rejection probably, or to get my voice heard? And the truth is, my novels are different. I mean, they are erotic romance, which is always great. Hot, sticky romance will always get you pretty far.
Rebel Miller: But they take a different turn in terms of the... I try to tackle social issues in a way that are a little bit different. These novels, for example, Awakening, the first and the trilogy, it's a futuristic trilogy. So, that's not something that I think the mainstream publisher would be ready to understand or willing to understand. And I think I made the right choice going self-publishing because you always find your tribe, right? Those people who are interested in... there's some group of people for everybody. So, in doing it on my own, I was able to find that group on my own. So, it worked out.
Kenrya: So, I mean, it's interesting that you mentioned, and I mean, to us, like the whole reason that we picked your book is because we're in awe of this like whole ass universe that you build with this series.
Rebel Miller: Oh, good.
Kenrya: Yeah. I mean, that type of world building usually is reserved for like dystopian YA novels, right? It's like The Hunger Games and all of those kinds of things. And it's really impressive how you created this entire, like I said, not just a world, but a universe that these folks and Kira and all of her ilk inhabit. Because we just read an excerpt for the show, of course, can you give us kind of a quick overview of the setting for the action in Awakening?
Rebel Miller: For sure. So, the world building was something that I decided on pretty deliberately early on in deciding whether or not I wanted to write a romance that was contemporary, historical, or futuristic. And I did futuristic specifically for that reason. I said, I don't really know many... at least I wasn't aware of it at the time, erotic novels or eromances that were diverse in this way and set in the future in this way.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: And I really enjoyed the opportunity to develop my own culture and my own kind of society.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: So, for The Realm, it's a society that's made up of a number of worlds. And the worlds are grouped into dominions. So, there are five of them. And I guess the biggest part that makes it different, besides it being in the future, is the fact that society is based on a caste or social class system. And there are four in this particular series.
Rebel Miller: So, there's the lowest caste, which is the subordinate caste. And then, above that-
Kenrya: Right. That's where Kira is.
Rebel Miller: That's where Kira is. And then, you have the protectorate caste, which are, of course, the protectors, kind of what you would call our military. And that's where the other part of her love triangle ties.
Rebel Miller: It ties to that group. Above that would be the Senate. And those are the senators, and they're kind of like the government officials. And that's where Gannon is, the other part of that love triangle. And at the top, of course, is the elite. So, you've got these four different castes. And there is kind of a spoken/unspoken rule that you don't really have relationships between certain castes. So, the upper two castes, of course, they're free to do what they want. And the lower two are able to do the same. And it gets tricky with this love triangle because, of course, you've got Kira in love with men from different castes and one of them is considered forbidden.
Rebel Miller: So, it adds to the whole kind of tension to the book. And it also kind of talks about society in a different way. Because what I liked about setting it up in this way is that it wasn't so much about sexual orientation or race that people were discriminating against, it was more against the caste. So, you'll find a lot of fluidity in the characters in terms of who they love, how many people they love, because there's polyamory, which I call multiples in this case in the novel. But that's normal. That's okay. It's more about what role you've been predetermined to fill and that you should stay in that particular box. So, it takes you on a journey about her deciding, well, am I going to stay in the box or not? Can I just be free to love who I love or do I want to follow the rules?
Erica: Where did you start with writing this? You said you were deliberate about the decision to make it futuristic and map out, set a new environment. But where did you start? Was it character or location?
Rebel Miller: Yeah. So, I definitely started with character. As a writer, you ladies know, you always say is it character or plot? Right? Which one comes first? And, for me, I've discovered that I think it's more character. Of course, in a year from now, it might change to plot. But I see the characters. If you've got a great character, someone who someone can resonate with, they see themselves in, and kind of can root for, then you're so interested in seeing what they do next.
Rebel Miller: So, once I had the girl, the protagonist in mind, I was able to say, okay. Well, where do I want to put her? Right? And that's where I said, well, this is where I want to kind of take a challenge and put her in a different setting that I don't think anybody has ever seen before.
Erica: What was the most difficult part of creating the series?
Rebel Miller: That's a good question. Probably... I don't know. It's so hard. I don't know if I can say there was a difficult part of creating it. It was so much fun to write, that's the thing.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: The thing about writing, and I tell people all the time, you come up with an idea of how you want it to end up, and then it changes as you go.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: I think that's great. It comes down to the character. And that's why I say the character bosses me around and says, no, I wouldn't do that. So, I really have to go, okay. Well, you pivot, and you pivot, and you pivot in the storyline. You say, well, how am I bringing that to a particular end that makes sense for the people and that honors kind of the readers and what their expectations are and what I've set up for it? So, I think it was just pivoting all the time. Just going, okay. Well, book two, this is not where we wanted to go, but this is how it's going to be interesting and how it's still to be proximate, and still really drive the story.
Kenrya: Wow. I mean, I think it comes through and especially that attention to who that character is. Like I very, very early, even when we met Kira when she was younger I was already in, or I was like, okay.
Rebel Miller: Oh, good.
Kenrya: I see who she is. I'm interested in learning more. Oh, she can't come? What's happening there? Like I want to know what's going on. And, as things unfold and things get scary sometimes, I was never really able to put it down because I was so totally drawn into her world, not just where she lived, but internally. Because she dealt with so many external and internal conflicts and you really care about where she lands in each one of those. So, I thought that was pretty dope. And, speaking of which, as we read in your bio, you said you're fond of creating characters who step outside of the expected. I'm wondering how that manifests for you in Awakening.
Rebel Miller: So, for me, it definitely was the whole relationship between her and the two men. So, I played with the idea of... I talked about polyamory being a normal... it's accepted now but in more of a mainstream accepted in this futuristic setting that that was never an issue. It was an option. So, for her, I wanted her to have multiple challenges and conflicts, as you say. It's, well I could be with one man, or I could be with both men, but can I be with that guy if that guy doesn't want me to be with that person.
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: And then there's the whole restricted caste thing. My parents aren't going to like this at all.
Kenrya: You know they got they own situation going on.
Rebel Miller: Then they have they own situation going on. And then, the hypocrisy there. I really enjoyed writing about the hypocrisy piece.
Erica: Yeah. I was like... like when her heart stopped.
Rebel Miller: That's a bad one.
Kenrya: I was like, you have got to be kidding. I mean, it's not like you didn't foreshadow it and we got to see her friend with her partners, but it was still really like, oh, okay. I felt that.
Rebel Miller: That's right. That's right. So, it was really manifesting in terms of her kind of stepping out of the box, turning tradition on its head because she's saying, I have all this choice. It's really up to me. It's now up to me in terms of what I do. And I think, when you look at today in the media or just in society with diversity and then Me Too and women's empowerment and how we're kind of coming into our own, I thought that was a really good message. Because I think there's an opportunity for people to say, okay. Yeah, we're getting empowered, we are empowered as women. And now, what do I do with all of it? Now it's all on me, right?, to decide how my life is going to live, who I'm going to love. So, I like doing it that way.
Erica: Cool. So, in the book it's very clear that Kira owns her own power, but she's also drawn to very powerful men. So, I kind of want to twist this question around to you. I know you're married, but what are you most attracted to in a potential sexual partner? We'll take this back to the pre-marriage Rebel. Or partner in general, I guess, right?
Rebel Miller: Yeah. So, I am a heterosexual woman. So, I guess, of course, I'd want a man. I think he'd have to be someone who... I guess I look at my husband and see what I ended up and I think that was the ideal person. He's strong, but he's able to be very compassionate, very passionate as well. Very much a person who is a family person. But, at the same time, when we talk about the romance and all that, he gets it. He's turned on by it. He thinks he is the inspiration for my novels.
Kenrya: He's like, I'll take that credit, thanks.
Erica: That's me. That's me. That's me.
Rebel Miller: [inaudible 00:17:07]. So, I like a guy who is able to see himself as a partner, a supporter of the woman that he's with. And I think, we talk about women being empowered and who they are, and the next book I'm writing really touches on... it's Ascendance, which will be the fourth book in the series, talks about the men being in a subordinate position and the woman being in the elite position and how he is still considered a man in supporting a woman who is in a higher, powerful position. So, that one is very interesting as I'm writing that one.
Kenrya: Is that going to be with Leanna?
Rebel Miller: And Kira's brother.
Kenrya: Oh. Get out. And see, I ain't get that far. Okay. That's exciting.
Rebel Miller: A little sneaky.
Kenrya: Okay. Y'all heard it here first.
Erica: So, Rebel, have you ever been torn between two people like Kira has?
Rebel Miller: Wow. Good question. You know what, no. I wish I had been.
Erica: Well, you wrote it very well.
Rebel Miller: This is my fantasy.
Rebel Miller: Well, this is it, it's my fantasy. I think that's what it's made into. You're inspired by the things that happen sometimes and things that maybe you wish could happen. Right?
Erica: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kenrya: I'm trying to think, have I ever been...
Rebel Miller: Have you been in a love triangle?
Kenrya: I don't think I ever have, but I've always been like a super duper serial monogamist. So like I get blinders once I am like fully in with somebody. So, I guess, no.
Rebel Miller: Yeah. I know what you mean.
Erica: I mean, I have, but I don't know if it was really like true love or just me like being a hoe. But that wasn't really for me. I mean, but either way, it was fun.
Kenrya: I mean, that's the-
Rebel Miller: I want to add to that because I think we don't know... like we're not open to necessarily being with more than one on a regular basis.
Rebel Miller: You know what I mean? Like if we thought it was an option, maybe we would realize we were in love triangles more than we do.
Erica: And I might have been in a few and not known it. Well, you know what, for fact, I know I had some and didn't know until later, after the fact. Like, oh shit, you. Okay.
Kenrya: Yeah. Yeah. Now that you say that, I mean I was married to a whole ass cheating husband, so I guess I was. Well now, that's a new perspective. Damn. Okay. Oh, so another thing that we're interested in is, you said that in the very beginning you were trying to figure out was this going to be present day, historical, was it going to be futuristic. What draws you to like the speculative fiction? And also, part two of that, what draws you to writing about the erotic?
Rebel Miller: Oh, yeah. So, I've always read more of the erotic romances, unfortunately, that was yes, when I was under ten. That's when it started.
Rebel Miller: Don't tell my mother. I didn't know that. You know what it was, why I'm drawn to erotic romance? I have read those romances that are not erotic. And I always felt like I was missing part of the story. That when they faded to black, for example, and you don't get the love scene or if you got the love scene and they kind of glossed over it.
Kenrya: I mean, that's so annoying.
Rebel Miller: I felt like I was missing a big part of the story. So I, without a doubt, knew I was going to write an erotic romance because in my love scenes you're seeing it's not just, boom chicka boom chicka wow wow.
Rebel Miller: Now we just cut from the story and then get back to the story. It's really taking a person from the beginning of the love scene, in an explicit hot, passionate one, to another part of their emotion at the end of it.
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.
Rebel Miller: So, they can kind of go through a process of development throughout it. So, it's not just the sex, but it is the development of the characters and how they felt from the beginning to the end. So, I knew I wanted to keep that because I thought, sex is a really, really good thing. And it tells you so much. You speak. It's a language on its own that you can kind of can communicate with a partner. And, of course, as a reader you kind of understand more about them and how they interact and you just learn so much more about that way. It's a very intimate part of the whole story.
Rebel Miller: That I don't think...
Kenrya: And it's a time when people are vulnerable in a way that they usually aren't. Right?
Rebel Miller: Yeah. That's right. That's when you usually let down a lot of your guard and show who you really are.
Kenrya: It makes sense to me. And then, the other part of that question is, what drew you to this futuristic setting?
Rebel Miller: I wanted the chance to develop my own world. So, I wanted to be able to create languages, to create a system, a technology, kind of governance and law of cultural kind of references that people like myself who are avid readers can really get immersed into the story even farther. So, it's not just a romance, it's really you're part of something. That, if you're reading this book, you're kind of part of that. You know what the Realm series is about. You get those little quotes when somebody talks about Solomon or something like that, you know?
Kenrya: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rebel Miller: Like that's what they use for time-lapse when they travel. It kind of brings you together as a community of readers around a particular storyline. So, I thought it was just a great way to immerse the readers in the book even more.
Kenrya: Yeah. It's effective, for sure. So, I'm interested in what you're reading outside of your own work right now.
Rebel Miller: Yeah. So, I read a lot of different things, not necessarily just romance, but like thrillers, you know James Rollins, Dan Brown, stuff like that. But in terms of romance, I was reading Sylvia Day quite a bit, and for more erotic romance, there was some Jane Ryland stuff. I read anything I can get my hands on really.
Rebel Miller: I find, when I'm writing though, it kind of gets slowed down because you're so focused on any time you have to actually get some thoughts on some quote unquote paper.
Kenrya: Yeah, I mean that's kind of the worst part about writing a book is that you don't get to read as much, unless it's something that provides reference for what you're writing.
Rebel Miller: That's so true. That is something that I was like, oh my gosh, now I'm part of the writing of the book. I'm not necessarily reading as many as I used. But, yeah.
Kenrya: Are you able to go back? Like besides all the edits and all of that kind of stuff, are you ever able to just go back and read them for pleasure, your own books?
Rebel Miller: No.
Rebel Miller: I don't. You know what it is? It's like done. I feel like, okay I'm done. Because you'll analyze it, won't you? You know what I mean?
Rebel Miller: And kind of get too picky. So, in preparing for this interview I was like, okay, I'm going to go back to that excerpt that you're referring to. I was like, oh yeah, I remember. That was a good piece.
Erica: I did damn good.
Rebel Miller: That was perfect. But it's just like an actor would say they don't watch their own movies sometimes. I just feel like, no. We're done with that chapter. I'm moving on.
Kenrya: Yeah. I deal with the same thing. I was doing a podcast interview about my latest book and somebody asked me what was the best part of the process. And I was like, I finished. Like it was over. It was fantastic doing it, but, once I was done with that, I was ready to move on to the next thing. And I could appreciate the accomplishment of having finished it. But I think, when you write, you're always eager to get onto the next thing because that's the fun part of it is the dreaming and the creating of the new thing.
Rebel Miller: It is. And when you're writing it, that's the thing... someone said, the hardest part of writing is writing because you've got the whole story in your head, and now you're trying to articulate it in a storyline. And it can kind of be like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to write the next one.
Rebel Miller: And, yeah. You just can't wait. So, I end up having to say, okay. What do I enjoy about it? Having to remind like, what am I enjoying about this scene? And then, it usually kind of helps me get back focused. But, yeah. I get it.
Erica: So, one of the things we do as we're wrapping up our interviews is ask a would you rather question. So-
Rebel Miller: Oh, no.
Erica: Prepare yourself. So, as I read your books... so I'm a huge Harry Potter fan. And so, this is far from Harry Potter but the worlds and the detail, I mean I could totally see myself at a theme park for the Realm. I could probably see myself at the Realm, going into the expo, all of that. So, I imagine this book as portrayed on the screen. So, would you rather have your book adapted into a movie by either Tyler Perry, so think Madea, loud characters, overacting, or the two white dudes that South Park, Trey Parker and Matt Stone. So, do you want a Madea style Realm or a South Park style Realm?
Rebel Miller: So good, this question. Oh my god. You know what? I'm going to say South Park.
Kenrya: Okay. Please explain.
Rebel Miller: Weird. Okay. So, I feel like South Park, I don't watch it often, but I know they've got like an off colored humor every now and then.
Kenrya: Oh, yeah.
Rebel Miller: I feel like they would get the nuances of this erotic romance in a way that... Tyler Perry is like over the top like big time.
Rebel Miller: I don't this movie... it's already a really dense, rich story. South Park would just add like a tongue in cheek to it that would take it over the edge, I think.
Kenrya: I see you.
Erica: I dig it. I dig it.
Rebel Miller: Oh my gosh. That's crazy.
Kenrya: Okay. So, that was awesome and that's a good place for us to end. We want to say thank you so much for joining us. And can you tell us where people can find you and your work?
Rebel Miller: Oh, for sure. You can go to my website, RebelMillerbooks.com. Or you can find me on Amazon, on iBooks, Barnes and Noble, wherever we they sell digital books. And you can also order print books through some of those online retailers too. But definitely check me out on my website. We just have all the information there and on my social media.
Kenrya: Awesome. And those are on Twitter, you're RebelMillerBoox, but it's B-O-O-X.
Rebel Miller: Sounds good.
Kenrya: And, on IG, it's RebelMillerBooks with an S at the end. Yes.
Rebel Miller: Thanks.
Kenrya: Awesome. That wraps up this episode of The Turn On. Thanks everyone for joining us.
Erica: Thank you so much for your time today.
Rebel Miller: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Loved it. I really had a good time.
Erica: All right.
Kenrya: Thanks, so did we.
Kenrya: This week's episode was produced by us, Kenrya and Erica, and edited by B'Lystic. The theme song is from Brazy. Please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, follow us on Twitter at TheTurnOnPod, and Instagram at TheTurnOnPodcast, and find links to books, transcripts, guest info, and other fun stuff at TheTurnOnPodcast.com. Bye.
The Turn On
The Turn On is a podcast for Black people who want to get off. To open their minds. To learn. To be part of a community. To show that we love and fuck too, and it doesn't have to be political or scandalous or dirty. Unless we want it to be.